Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We’ll be taking my thoughts and prayers to the ballot box.

DeSantis transforms Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

The GOP is a fucking disgrace.

Don’t expect peaches from an apple tree.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

I’m pretty sure there’s only one Jack Smith.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Foreign Affairs Open Thread: Land War in Asia & Our ‘Savvy’ Pundits

Foreign Affairs Open Thread: Land War in Asia & Our ‘Savvy’ Pundits

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Land War in Asia & Our 'Savvy' Pundits- STOCKPILE

(Mike Luckovich via GoComics.com)

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Cato Insitute dude has his opinion:


‘Former USAF aircraft/munitions maintenance officer’ responds:

==========

… Some claim that there is a great appetite in the press to beat up on Joe Biden to demonstrate that all the criticism of Donald Trump wasn’t bias, just solid reporting. That’s a significant factor but I don’t think the most important. Will Bunch points out a real and very human factor: many reporters at national news outlets know at least the kinds of people endangered by the Taliban rout and in many cases particular people. Your news organization worked with interpreters and handlers. You embedded with military formations and met military interpreters or members of the Afghan Army. This is human and real, even righteous. But again, I think this is only a part and not the biggest part of what we’ve seen play out over recent days…

… Both parties’ foreign policy establishments opposed leaving Afghanistan. Since Sunday, many on the center-right have argued that the collapse shows that withdrawal was a mistake. The US can maintain a few thousand troops in a mostly advisory role indefinitely and it’s really not a problem. But this hasn’t been the premise of most news commentary. It’s rather been that, yes, it was probably time to leave Afghanistan, but, yes, “there has to have been a better way.”

Was there?

Certainly the way it’s played out has been messy, chaotic, mortifying. Many armchair quarterbacks have the idea that the US could have evacuated everyone who had worked with us in advance of withdrawal. But as I and many other have argued that’s a basic misunderstanding of the situation. If you evacuate everyone who might be endangered by the fall of the government in advance, you are basically signing the regime’s death warrant. You are saying you don’t expect the regime to last and that the fall will come fast. That message is a self-fulfilling prophecy…

My point here isn’t that there’s nothing the Biden administration could have done differently or better. At a minimum they could have been processing exit paperwork more rapidly in advance for interpreters and others who worked for the US and had clearer contingency planning for evacuations of personnel outside of Kabul for a rapid collapse scenario. My point is simply that to a great extent what we are seeing today was baked into the US mission in Afghanistan all along. It is ugly. And a lot of people are going to suffer. It is mortifying on various levels – some trivial and shallow and others profound – for the United States. But it was always baked in. And what is critical to understand is that the fact that it was always baked in, and no one was ready to grab that kryptonite or make that reckoning, is precisely why we have been there for almost twenty years.

What is being imagined and demanded is an hermetic, clean and painless end to a failed military mission. That’s not responsibility but rather denial…

What we see in so many reactions, claims of disgrace and betrayal are no more than people who have been deeply bought into these endeavors suddenly forced to confront how much of it was simply an illusion. “There had to have been a better way” is no more than monumental deflection, whatever mistakes or poor planning were involved. Nowhere has this been more blindingly clear than in the Capital’s news-driving email newsletters and the eager voices of the same folks on Twitter, ramping themselves up into escalating paroxysms of outrage and doom casting over the ugly scenes emerging on viral videos, all the while overlooking their support for the policies that made the events inevitable. The intensity of the reaction, the need to stay tethered to the imagery of Sunday and Monday, is a perfect measure of the shock of being forced to confront the reality of the situation in real time.

Reader Interactions

202Comments

  1. 1.

    Roger Moore

    Josh Marshall’s editorial is a bit long- he does tend to be too wordy- but he gets the point exactly right. The people who are fighting hardest about this are in denial about us losing. They want to blame everything on Biden’s handling of the situation because it lets them ignore the underlying situation and their role in creating it.

  2. 2.

    Old School

    Those saying that a more successful plan involves changing what was done months ago should be required to show themselves promoting that option months ago. After all, the May 31st deadline has been known since last year.

  3. 3.

    StringOnAStick

    Once again, Josh Marshall, historian that he is, has the people and the chops to lay out the plain truth. I hope it has an impact on all the petulant children in the media.

  4. 4.

    JML

    no one plays the Blame Game and CYA like the Beltway media. more wrong opinions per capita than any conglomeration of people outside of a Trump rally.

  6. 6.

    JMG

    If this is deemed inappropriate for this thread I apologize, but it did say open and it’s breaking news. BBC reporting Charlie Watts has died.

  7. 7.

    rikyrah

    @Roger Moore: 

    The people who are fighting hardest about this are in denial about us losing. They want to blame everything on Biden’s handling of the situation because it lets them ignore the underlying situation and their role in creating it.

    truth.
    nothing but truth.
    And, they resent folks bringing up their roles in this. And, what previous folks have done or not done.

  8. 8.

    Adam L Silverman

    I would very much like to know who on Capitol Hill Alex Nowrasteh spoke with. My guess is that one of these is that strategeric jenius Lindsey Graham. I’m sure another is Dan Crenshaw. Brian Mast was probably another one. Not one of these guys has ever held a strategic level assignment in the US military. They’ve never been through the strategists schools or the senior leader colleges. The only reason Graham made colonel is because he’s a senator. And their staffs? Not a single person who has worked on anything that isn’t tactical or operational levels of war.

  10. 10.

    StringOnAStick

    I had wondered yesterday if I should risk making a reference to the movie Whisky Tango Foxtrot but thought it was too glib; now I see Malcolm Nance went there and called the in-country media on being pissed at losing their high excitement, big parties, servants and great food, so of course “we” should have stayed in Afghanistan.

  12. 12.

    Cacti

    The media has succeeded in dragging Biden’s approval ratings way down.

    The silver lining is, a year from now, when the troops are home and the world hasn’t ended, Biden will have been proven right.  We had no national interest in staying there.

  19. 19.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Taliban Takeover: UK Parliament Condemns President Biden, PM Johnson

    In a Wednesday emergency session convened after the fall of Afghanistan, British lawmakers condemned U.S. President Joe Biden and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson for their roles in Afghanistan’s fall to the Taliban militant group.

    The parliamentarians described the two leaders’ failure to intervene and protect the Afghan government from imminent collapse as an intelligence failure and neglect of moral duty. The criticism came from all corners of the government, in particular, from many members of the Conservative Party, which Johnson leads, as well as Labour, Liberal Democrat, and Scottish National Party Members of Parliament (MPs).

    […]

    Criticism was also directed at Biden, who instigated the U.S. and NATO withdrawal and consistently refused to return troops to the country throughout the government’s collapse. Johnson argued that Britain was forced to withdraw its troops after Biden committed to the U.S. departure.

    The U.S. maintained the lion’s share of international forces in the country throughout the war

    Conservative MP Tom Tugendhat also took issue with Biden’s derision of the Afghan National Army, noting his own service in Afghanistan and the sacrifices made by Afghan forces in fighting back the Taliban and criticizing Biden for attacking their courage while not having served in the military himself.

    I never heard about this. Was this discussed here already? Would like to hear Tony Jay’s or any other UK jackal’s take on this if not. It seems it’s not just the US media who wants to attack Biden over Afghanistan. Also, that Tugendhat asshat is a douche. “Nice” to see BoJo throw Biden under the bus as well. What a ?

  23. 23.

    Elizabelle

    Charlie Watts.  That is a hard one.  Great guy.

    Tom Petty’s loss was still harder, because younger and no warning.

    So sad to lose an original Stone.

  25. 25.

    piratedan

    @Major Major Major Major: well one counterpoint to that would be to note that while the MSM has a hard time grasping nuance, the converse would be, the US allowing thousands of unvetted persons onto our national soil as Biden’s mistake risks our national safety…..

    we know it wouldn’t be accurate, but there’s absolutely nothing that would prevent Faux, OANN and Newsmax from spinning it as such.

  26. 26.

    dr. bloor

    The media are devoted to the catastrophe headline they hatched in the first moments of the US pulling out. Nothing will change that narrative.

    Of course it will change.  FTFNYT et al will start sending reporters out to Ohio diners to cover their belief that all of the refugees have the COVID.

  28. 28.

    L85NJGT

    I believe the media freakout isn’t so much about Afghanistan, but that they are reacting to a shift in D.C. power structures that is more generational and broad-based. If that means a town less wired for the GOP, then yes, corporate overlords will reprioritize and adjust assignments.

    The big media types are screeching to maintain the status quo ante of 2005 because they don’t want to get fired.

  29. 29.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Steeplejack: Correct. Frankly, the only reason he was never separated under Don’t Ask Don’t Tell before that policy was gotten rid of by Obama is because he was a US representative and then a senator.

  30. 30.

    Hoodie

    @Major Major Major Major:  This seems like a red herring and  a reflexive position of people who generally support Biden but feel compelled to find something wrong with what he’s doing so they don’t come across as cheerleaders.  My guess is that they didn’t do that because they thought it could trigger the panic and a rush to the exits that they may not have be ready to deal with yet and wouldn’t be much help if the panic hits because they would waive all that stuff anyway under panic conditions, as they appear to be doing now.

  31. 31.

    Elizabelle

    I love that Charlie Watts slipped out quietly, privately, and still at the top of his game.

    Very on point.

  32. 32.

    Elizabelle

    @Mary G:   Yes.  The original lineup:  Brian Jones dead at an early age, Bill Wyman retired, and now Charlie in relative advanced age, but never old.

    So many other good Stones members over the years, too.  Mick Taylor.

    And Keef survives.  Good.

  33. 33.

    Elizabelle

    The New York Times:

    Charlie Watts, whose strong but unflashy drumming powered the Rolling Stones for over 50 years, died on Tuesday in London. He was 80.

    His death, in a hospital, was announced by his publicist, Bernard Doherty. No other details were immediately provided.

    The Rolling Stones announced earlier this month that Mr. Watts would not be a part of the band’s forthcoming “No Filter” tour of the United States after he had undergone an unspecified emergency medical procedure, which the band’s representatives said had been successful.

    Reserved, dignified and dapper, Mr. Watts was never as flamboyant, either onstage or off, as most of his rock-star peers, let alone the Stones’ lead singer, Mick Jagger; he was content to be one of the finest rock drummers of his generation, playing with a jazz-inflected swing that made the band’s titanic success possible. As the Stones guitarist Keith Richards said in his 2010 autobiography, “Life,” “Charlie Watts has always been the bed that I lie on musically.”

    While some rock drummers chased after volume and bombast, Mr. Watts defined his playing with subtlety, swing and a solid groove.

    “As much as Mick’s voice and Keith’s guitar, Charlie Watts’s snare sound is the Rolling Stones,” Bruce Springsteen wrote in an introduction to the 1991 edition of the drummer Max Weinberg’s book “The Big Beat.” “When Mick sings, ‘It’s only rock ’n’ roll but I like it,’ Charlie’s in back showing you why!”

    A full obituary will appear shortly.

  36. 36.

    Elizabelle

    Thinking of Amir.  He will be devastated.  It’s 1:23 am in Kuala Lumpur.  He might still be up.  If not, dreadful news to awake to.

  37. 37.

    Ruckus

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    This is your typical response to big things that are painful so many continue to do what has been done, because changing course would be an admission that wrong had been done or that nothing more would change the situation.

    In this case we went to Afghanistan for a reason. Even if that was the most noble reason in the world, at some point you get the job done, or you don’t. We got job one done. OBL is dead. Job two was to create another country in our image because if we could manage that….. The problem is that we formed a country that, like all human endeviors, is flawed. It is less flawed than others for sure and has been far more than reasonably successful, it still had to come from the inside, as does every other successful country, it has to come from inside. Afghanistan didn’t come from inside, Afghanistan didn’t have the inside to make it work. It might in the future but it doesn’t now or in the last, how long, centuries? If you study our start we barely had enough inside and many countries don’t either, most of them evolved from what was. This country is rare in history, we started a new country, with it’s own ideals and flaws, different from others that existed. It was a “perfect storm,” and those don’t exist often in humanity.

  38. 38.

    Steeplejack

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I’m trying not to be a dick here, but do you understand that not all of the people at the airport clamoring to get out of Afghanistan are translators, interpreters, handlers, guides—whatever—for the U.S. forces? Many of them are people who just want to get out and are grasping at straws. It’s not a matter of “sorting out some paperwork.” It’s triage. It’s messy but unfortunately it’s necessary. We don’t have the capacity to take everybody who wants to go.

  39. 39.

    Elizabelle

    WaPost does not have anything up.  LA Times has the AP story:

    LONDON — 

    Charlie Watts, the self-effacing and unshakeable Rolling Stones drummer who helped anchor one of rock’s greatest rhythms sections and used his “day job” to support his enduring love of jazz, has died, according to his publicist. He was 80.

    Bernard Doherty said Tuesday that Watts “passed away peacefully in a London hospital earlier today surrounded by his family.”

    “Charlie was a cherished husband, father and grandfather and also as a member of The Rolling Stones one of the greatest drummers of his generation,” Doherty said.

    Watts had announced he would not tour with the Stones in 2021 because of an undefined health issue.

    The quiet, elegantly dressed Watts was often ranked with Keith Moon, Ginger Baker and a handful of others as a premier rock drummer, respected worldwide for his muscular, swinging style as the band rose from its scruffy beginnings to international superstardom. He joined the Stones early in 1963 and remained over the next 60 years, ranked just behind Mick Jagger and Keith Richards as the group’s longest lasting and most essential member.

    The Stones began, Watts said, “as white blokes from England playing Black American music” but quickly evolved their own distinctive sound. Watts was a jazz drummer in his early years and never lost his affinity for the music he first loved, heading his own jazz band and taking on numerous other side projects.

    A classic Stones song like “Brown Sugar” and “Start Me Up” often began with a hard guitar riff from Richards, with Watts following closely behind, and Wyman, as the bassist liked to say, “fattening the sound.” Watts’ speed, power and time keeping were never better showcased than during the concert documentary, “Shine a Light,” when director Martin Scorsese filmed “Jumpin’ Jack Flash” from where he drummed toward the back of the stage.

  40. 40.

    mrmoshpotato

    @StringOnAStick:

    now I see Malcolm Nance went there and called the in-country media on being pissed at losing their high excitement, big parties, servants and great food, so of course “we” should have stayed in Afghanistan. 

    They’re free to show up at their nearest recruitment office.

  45. 45.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Mike in NC:

    The Beltway Blowhards apparently never heard of Bush, Cheney, or Rumsfeld. 

    And all of the media slapdicks thirsty for blood back in 2001.

  46. 46.

    rikyrah

    @Steeplejack:

    I’m trying not to be a dick here, but do you understand that not all of the people at the airport clamoring to get out of Afghanistan are translators, interpreters, handlers, guides—whatever—for the U.S. forces?

     

    I still think about the 17,000 backlog in applications set up by Dolt45 and Miller.

    I hate them both.

  47. 47.

    citizen dave

    Very sad; the drummer for Ben Waters is gone.  Check out The A, B, C and D of Boogie Woogie; or Waters tribute album Boogie 4 Stu: A Tribute to Ian Stewart.

  48. 48.

    Medicine Man

    At this point I’m just wondering how many newspaper owners have stock in Raytheon. Or how many columnists have spouses working in Natsec.

  49. 49.

    WhatsMyNym

    @Elizabelle:From the Rolling Stone mag…

    He was not the Stones’ first drummer. The band played its first gig in 1962, with the lineup of singer Mick Jagger, pianist Ian Stewart, guitarists Keith Richards and Brian Jones, bassist and future Pretty Things leader Dick Taylor, and drummer and future Kink Mick Avory.​

  50. 50.

    Adam L Silverman

    @mrmoshpotato: He also called for Biden to fire his entire national security team because they screwed the whole thing up royally. Spent the better part of 24 to 36 hours repeating that and stunt casting who should replace them. Then, suddenly, he did a 180 and started bashing the reporters who he’d been in line with just hours before.

    E8 cryptolinguists and SERE instructors are very important personnel. What they are not is strategists or policy makers. Nor are they supposed to be. The E9s who go on to serve as the senior enlisted advisors at the strategic and policy levels are run through several different schools and educational programs to ensure that they have the breadth and depth of knowledge to allow them to translate the breadth and depth of their experiences so as to effectively be able to work for and with the senior leaders they’re assigned to at the strategic and policy level. I’ve taught in one of those programs. I was involved in the organizational planning team to build a more effective one for the Army. The guy who oversees all this for the Army is a former student of mine. Nance has never attended one of these and is talking out of his grommet and on all sides of what is currently going on in Afghanistan.

  51. 51.

    Kay

    @Steeplejack:

    I don’t think people will believe it’s all “translators” forever. At some point they’re going to wonder if there are 100,000 translators.

    I mean, I get it. It helps politically if they can be characterized as directly assisting US military and I’m in favor of their coming but it doesn’t take a genuis to see how that could be expanded to include just about anyone.

    It’s not “anyone who wants to get out”. It’s not 5 million. There’s some number and there’s priorities within that number.

  52. 52.

    trollhattan

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Conservative MP Tom Tugendhat also took issue with Biden’s derision of the Afghan National Army, noting his own service in Afghanistan and the sacrifices made by Afghan forces in fighting back the Taliban and criticizing Biden for attacking their courage while not having served in the military himself.

    This shit, again? What part of being president (or PM or…) is put on hold for somebody with no direct military experience? What about the parents of soldiers and sailors and pilots? Do they get a say?

    Fuck this Tory sideways with a rusty whatever they cut down trees with. Y’all left the joint years ago, and left your say in what’s done there the minute you were gone.

  53. 53.

    Gravenstone

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): 20 fucking years of intervention and propping them up worked a treat, didn’t it? Wonder what exactly all the MPs thought was going to “fix things”, aside from maintaining the status quo (which ceased being an option, because TFG sold everyone down the river). With that, I invite each and every MP to take to the front lines and help secure the airfield until  the evacuation is ended.

  54. 54.

    Brachiator

    @JMG:

    Damn. I had seen recently that he was not going to continue with their current musical tour.

    Rest in peace.

  55. 55.

    trollhattan

    @Kay:

    My first screening question would be “What did you have for breakfast, today?” That should filter out quite a few “translators.”

  56. 56.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Steeplejack: @Kay: I mentioned this issue last night. The people screaming to get the interpreters and others who assisted US and Coalition Forces out all of last week have now pivoted to getting out all the Afghan journalists, Afghan teachers, Afghan women and female children, Afghan civic society leaders, Afghan governance promoters, Afghan employees of the development and civil society NGOs.

    Last week the demand was to get between 30,000 and 40,000 Afghans out. Then, by Friday, the number had jumped to 80,000 when MSNBC put that hysteric Zeller on who was screaming he had a list of 80,000 Afghans who had contacted him and his friends that we had to get out. Now we’re talking 100,000 plus.

    We have room for all of these people in the US despite what the Stephen Millers of the world think. But at some point someone is going to have to delineate a criteria for who we bring out – on military air, on the charter flights via private airlines that the DOD and State Department are arranging, and on charter flights being arranged by those like Secretary Clinton (who is, of course, getting almost zero recognition for the good work she’s doing) – and, unfortunately, some Afghans are going to wind up on the wrong side of that determination.

  57. 57.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Adam L Silverman:

    He also called for Biden to fire his entire national security team because they screwed the whole thing up royally. Spent the better part of 24 to 36 hours repeating that and stunt casting who should replace them. Then, suddenly, he did a 180 and started bashing the reporters who he’d been in line with just hours before.

    Ah, excellent!  Wasn’t aware of that.

    ETA – was more bashing the Biden-bashing MSM than praising Nance.

  58. 58.

    Steeplejack

    @Kay:

    I don’t think people will believe it’s all “translators” forever. At some point they’re going to wonder if there are 100,000 translators.

    Srsly. We’ve already gotten about 50,000 people out, including  [checks notes] 111 random schoolgirls and the girls’ national robotics team.

    Don’t get me wrong—that’s great. But we can’t redeem a 20-year shitshow by somehow making the mad dash for the exit “better” (method unknown). It seems to be going about as well as could be expected, given the realities of the situation.

  59. 59.

    geg6

    @JMG: ​

    Damn, I knew he wasn’t doing well and wasn’t going on the Stones tour that’s about to start (or maybe already did). But I had no idea he was that ill. Can’t remember what I read he had.

    A truly great drummer and hilarious when playing live. No matter what craziness Mick, Keef or Ron were getting up to onstage, Charlie was always just smiling and paying no attention to anything but the killer beat. RIP Charlie.

  60. 60.

    Immanentize

    @Cacti:

    The media has succeeded in dragging Biden’s approval ratings way down.

    Link please. I think this sounds like bullshit.

  62. 62.

    Mike in NC

    @rikyrah: The Orange Clown and his mini-Heydrich were never going to allow any Iraqis or Afghans come into this country unless they tried to emigrate via Norway.

  63. 63.

    Steeplejack

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Agree completely with what you say.

    We have room for all of these people in the US despite what the Stephen Millers of the world think.

    Also agree with this, and I would welcome them. But it’s a question of basic logistics, almost like a question of physics: how much volume can you pump through a pipe of a certain diameter? And in a limited time frame?

  64. 64.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Hoodie:

    This seems like a red herring and a reflexive position of people who generally support Biden but feel compelled to find something wrong with what he’s doing so they don’t come across as cheerleaders.

    That sounds a lot like the reaction of a cheerleader to criticism, no offense

  65. 65.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Steeplejack:

    I’m trying not to be a dick here, but do you understand that not all of the people at the airport clamoring to get out of Afghanistan are translators, interpreters, handlers, guides—whatever—for the U.S. forces?

    Duh. Do you realize that some of them are? Also duh, I hope.

  67. 67.

    Brachiator

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    I never heard about this. Was this discussed here already? Would like to hear Tony Jay’s or any other UK jackal’s take on this if not. It seems it’s not just the US media who wants to attack Biden over Afghanistan

    The main Parliament sessions happened last week some interesting YouTube clips. Lots of branches to this story. One of them is that despite the outrage supposedly felt, initially neither PM Boris Johnson nor his foreign secretary Raab could be bothered to shorten their vacations. Then there were some false claims that the UK government had not been informed of US intentions.

    Some Tories are upset to again be reminded that the UK is not a powerful nation anymore.

    But it is also the case that many people lost friends and family. They are having to deal with their own feelings about the intervention in Afghanistan.

  69. 69.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Adam L Silverman:  My guess is that one of these is that strategeric jenius Lindsey Graham

    Me suspect that isn’t an accidental misspelling.

    Hmm I wonder if strategeric jenius’ are also the source for the “Men know war because they have to register for the draft” mem going about lately.  That sounds like that kind of thinking.

  70. 70.

    Peale

    @StringOnAStick: Had a similar thought about that. “I bet they fly there on Emirates and spend the weekend shopping on the way there back.  What they are complaining about is that they no longer get to expense trips to Dubai.”

  72. 72.

    trollhattan

    And now for something completely different, Betty the bumblebee.

    A teenager who rescued a bumblebee says it is now her loyal pet – sleeping by her bed and even following her to the shops and bowling alley.

    Lacey Shillinglaw, 13, spotted the large fluffy bumblebee lying in the road while walking her dog two weeks ago. She scooped up the bee, now named Betty, noticing it had a crumpled wing, and tried to put it in a safer spot, on some flowers in a nearby park.

    But it refused to stay put, buzzing back over to Lacey and crawling all over her, and after an hour she gave up and headed home with the creature perched on her shoulder. And despite repeated attempts to leave her outside, the buzzy friend has refused to leave Lacey’s side ever since.

    It is always by her side in the house – sleeping on her bedside table – and has followed her to the shops and on a family trip to the bowling alley. Lacey, from Coventry, West Midlands, said: “Betty is totally amazing – I’ll remember this forever.

    “I thought she would fly off on the first day but she just never did.

    https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/uk-world-news/teenager-keeps-bumble-bee-pet-5814711

    Pics of Lacey and Betty the bee at the link. Bzzzzzzzzzzz.

  77. 77.

    jl

    I find it odd, not unexpected, but still odd when I reflect, that our crap corporate media report zero salient facts of the matter while they have hours of time to waste venting outrage and peeing their pants.

    The Trump dump of the Afghan government, the Doha agreement’s implicit recognition of the Taliban as the dominant political force in the country going forward, the timely Biden administration alert for US citizens and others to leave the country before the withdrawal. Any of that reported or discussed? No. Now I learn from twitter over this almost top 10,000 blog that the Afghan government explicitly requested no airlift before the withdrawal.

    Instead we get hours of decadent minor aristocrats of a decaying empire venting imperial domination fantasies. It is true that the fate of many people in Afghanistan after withdrawal is very grim and that is a tragedy. But it is also true that the fate of many people in Afghanistan without a withdrawal would be very grim and that would be a similar tragedy. Why we are in such a tragic situation is not even considered for discussion.

    Instead we get infantile fantasies that if we keep troops there to blow up stuff and kill people indefinitely, and also accept deaths of those troops indefinitely, that would solve all problems. It’s a spectacle both hilarious and disgusting.

  78. 78.

    Steeplejack

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Yes, duh, and that’s part of the triage process—sorting out who’s who. The first time someone says, “Golly, I must have left my papers in my other caftan,” and gets waved through with “Don’t worry, we’ll sort it out in Guam,” every person in the crowd is going to using that same line.

  80. 80.

    azlib

    One thing that seems pretty clear at this point is the US military seems to do logistics pretty well. Getting all the aircraft in position and dealing with the long support chain behind them takes a lot of planning. I do wonder if they gamed out the current scenario of a rapid collapse of the Afghan regime.

  83. 83.

    trollhattan

    I previously posted the prison guard union protest of Newsom’s state employee vaccine mandate. So, this.

    The family of a San Quentin State Prison guard who died of COVID-19 last August is suing state prison officials, claiming a botched transfer of inmates into San Quentin led to a coronavirus outbreak that ultimately killed him.

    Sgt. Gilbert Polanco’s family claims in a lawsuit filed in federal court in San Francisco that decisions by California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation officials caused an outbreak at San Quentin after the transfer in May 2020 of 122 inmates from the California Institution for Men in Chino.

    The transfer of inmates from CIM, where a COVID-19 outbreak had sickened hundreds of inmates and killed nine, has come under intense criticism from the state Inspector General’s Office and inmate advocates, and already is the subject of at least one other lawsuit filed on behalf of a 61-year-old inmate from Sacramento who died a month before Polanco.

    Polanco, 55, died Aug. 9, 2020, after beginning his career as a correctional officer at the age of 21, according to the lawsuit filed by attorney Michael Haddad.
    https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article253707003.html#storylink=cpy

    Wonder if the union will be participating in the lawsuit on Polanco’s behalf?

  86. 86.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @jl: One the hilarious parts of this mess is apparently most of Trump’s own supporters don’t know Trump started the withdraw because the media simply chose not to report it at the time.  Which is amazing considering Trump considers that one of the high points of his presidency, so apparently Trump sucks at self promotion too.

  89. 89.

    James E Powell

    I wanted to play drums because I fell in love with the glitter and lights, but it wasn’t about adulation. It was about being up there playing. – Charlie Watts

    Been a Stones fanatic since I heard “Heart of Stone” when I was nine. No words can express my sadness at his passing. RIP Charlie.

  90. 90.

    Ken

    @trollhattan: A teenager who rescued a bumblebee says it is now her loyal pet – sleeping by her bed and even following her to the shops and bowling alley.

    So many horror stories start with something like this…

  91. 91.

    Scout211

    @Immanentize:

    The USAToday/Suffolk poll in the story from today.  Maybe the paragraph below??????

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/24/afghanistan-woes-sink-bidens-approval-41-usa-today-suffolk-poll/8244854002/

    Of those surveyed, 62%, put the responsibility for the Afghanistan war on George W. Bush.

    Half approved of his handling of the pandemic, 39% of his handling of the economy.

    Biden’s decision to leave Afghanistan was approved of by most Americans.

    But only 26% approved of Biden’s handling of the withdrawal.

    .

    The poll was taken Thursday through Monday, when the nation’s headlines were dominated by scenes of desperate families trying to evacuate the Kabul airport and a surge of COVID-19 cases across the United States.

  92. 92.

    Cacti

    @Scout211: I’m not sure Immanentize reads above a second grade level.  A basic google search is obviously beyond their abilities.  Don’t overestimate them.

  93. 93.

    jl

    Another fact I haven’t heard discussed is that the number of annual civilian deaths in Afghanistan have risen to sustained levels in recent years that are as high as the first years after the invasion. I think over 10 thousand a year. And that number of would almost certainly rise if he US had repudiated the Doha agreement.

    But those deaths don’t count at all, not even considered worthy of notice. I’m not sure why, but I suspect that civilian deaths due to fighting while the US military is exerting force don’t count. Those lives are nothing, whether killed by Taliban or the US, the important thing is that the US military is blowing stuff up and shooting people. I think I read that most of the deaths are due to Taliban actions, but since the whole topic is not considered worthy of thought, getting into details is pointless.

    Some of the helpful suggestions I’ve heard from the corporate pundits are butt stupid. There is trouble at the Kabul airport, Taliban has set up checkpoints. OK, just capture another airport. When the same happens at the other airport (edit: and the Taliban have plenty of resources to cause problems and do checkpoints at two airports), I suppose just capture another one. And just keep on doing that until it amounts to a reinvasion and there is no problem at all because the US military is blowing up stuff and killing people. For many of those depraved pundits and national security experts, international relations consists of the US military blowing up stuff and killing people and nothing else matters.

  94. 94.

    Steeplejack

    @Immanentize:

    In a word, no.

    This is one of my pet peeves. (And, God, I am discovering that I have many of them!) Blogs are supposed to be about communication, and this one does a great job of filtering out unsourced Internet bullshit. If someone relays a hot take or a news flash it’s only polite—and relatively easy—to provide a link (or at least a source reference), rather than cavalierly expecting some number n of readers to independently try to look it up for themselves.

  95. 95.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    New York Times [email protected]
    The Confederates knew the Civil War was unwinnable but they kept fighting anyway. Why won’t today’s Democrats do the same in Afghanistan?

    So I take it it’s only a matter of days before the headlines will scream about Biden excavating too many Afghani allies.

  97. 97.

    Immanentize

    @Scout211:

    I don’t like to “fix” polls, but I also don’t think anyone should rely on one poll alone. Looks like The USA/Suffolk is a real outlier and Suffolk has never polled that question before? Outlier like — lower that Rassmussen.

    ETA, they point out it was in the field at the height of the media feeding frenzy, but the respondents didn’t generally blam Biden for the general Afghanistan problems.

    Linky 

  98. 98.

    Steeplejack

    @Cacti:

    Thanks for the link! See, was that so hard? You could have just done that at the start and saved everyone some aggravation. It’s a lot more specific than where you began: “The media has succeeded in dragging Biden’s approval ratings way down.”

  100. 100.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Scout211: Those are hardly Biden is sunk numbers.

    It seems like the press is so used to Trump’s double down nonsense that they forgot normal people just try something else if something isn’t working right.

  101. 101.

    rikyrah

    @jl:

     

    The Trump dump of the Afghan government, the Doha agreement’s implicit recognition of the Taliban as the dominant political force in the country going forward, the timely Biden administration alert for US citizens and others to leave the country before the withdrawal. Any of that reported or discussed? No. Now I learn from twitter over this almost top 10,000 blog that the Afghan government explicitly requested no airlift before the withdrawal

     

    It’s the lack of CONTEXT that is driving me up a wall too.

  102. 102.

    jl

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Trump was a horrible negotiator as president. My sense is that he was able to get big flashy agreements quickly be simply leaving out stakeholders who were less powerful and could be crushed by the winners, or who could make trouble much latter and who would make the negotiations more difficult.

    And Trump is such a fool, he still got rolled up like an old carpet in every negotiation and every agreement he did. An amazing record of depravity, viciousness, and incompetence.

  104. 104.

    Hoodie

    @Major Major Major Major:  Sorry, just making an observation that it seems to be the catchall objection for those who can’t really articulate anything else but feel they need to come up with something so they can feel they’re being “honest.”  The visa thing is somewhat of a red herring because it’s quite likely it would not have made much difference whether the paperwork was in order, and telling everyone that they’re free to come beforehand could have seriously undermined the existing Afghan government, both by instigating a panic or, if not that, creating a brain drain.  All that paperwork would be of relatively small value in the inevitable chaos that would occur once everyone realized the Biden was really serious about leaving, which is what Marshall is essentially saying.   Given the pace in which Globemasters are landing and taking off in Kabul, they are probably accepting all sorts of alternative reasons for boarding one of those C17s, so having an official, processed SIV application is probably not going to get you to Doha that much faster.  It’s also quite possible that it would not have gotten you to leave earlier if you had obtained one in advance because, for example, even if you had a complete SIV, you may have done so only as hedge in case the Afghan government completely collapsed.  For example, in the case of translators and other liasons, there were going to be thousands of Americans and other contractors that might need your services if the Afghan government somehow survived (we still would be pumping money in there if it had).   The alternative would be to go to someplace that is not your home, without your extended family, and without much in the ways of marketable skills (don’t need a lot of Pashto translators or tribal guides in Cedar Rapids).  So, yes, it may have been advisable and desirable to open up the SIV process , but I think it’s kind of a weak and unnecessary criticism of Biden because the SIV problem is vastly more attributable to four years of Trump sabotaging the process.  Somehow, Biden was supposed to fix that while fuckwads like Ted Cruz are blocking appointments and a full-blown pandemic is going on.

  105. 105.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @jl: I know, as they say “if the only tool in your tool box is a strap on then,,,” but, as the Byzantines pointed out, most of the time it’s easier to solve these foreign policy issues with money. I mean it’s not like the Taliban isn’t for rent.

  107. 107.

    Ruckus

    @Medicine Man:

    It isn’t even that they have direct stock, although they very well might. The market has strength of trading, and the military/industrial complex is a part of that. But more important is the movement of money is important to the market. And it of course can’t be all in one direction, it has to be seamless and relatively quite, it has to be of a certain size or it’s deemed weak, it has to be continuous or it’s a disaster. Because the market is made upon money movement. You take out the military/industrial complex and that’s a big, constant, expensive segment. War makes money for the market. More importantly military equipment makes money for the market. Reduce the need for the equipment and the market slows down. And in the market world, that is a nuclear event.

    In this country anyone with money has a position in the market. It’s likely a small one for the market as a whole, but those small positions add up. And when I say small I mean small, as in the over all size of the market. For most individuals that would be a larger position than the vast majority could even contemplate.

  108. 108.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Steeplejack:

    Yes, duh, and that’s part of the triage process—sorting out who’s who. The first time someone says, “Golly, I must have left my papers in my other caftan,” and gets waved through with “Don’t worry, we’ll sort it out in Guam,” every person in the crowd is going to using that same line.

    I was thinking specifically about the people who’ve had trouble with the letter of recommendation, which is one of the seven required documents, but sure, strawman me.

  110. 110.

    Mike in NC

    I’m so relieved that our MSM is keeping its thumb on the pulse of all those MAGA types watching stories about Kabul from their recliners and tuned in to FOX News. Too bad that a month from now these same pollsters will have moved on to another shiny object. Joe is doing his damn job, which must upset them after four years of nonstop stupidity and chaos.

  111. 111.

    jl

    @rikyrah: I don’t know how the Trump Doha Dump of the Afghan government can be ignored in how it started shaping the political realities on the ground for what is happening how.

    Trump kicked the Afghan government out of the negotiations after some initial meetings, and left its fate to completely undefined unconditioned negotiations that the Taliban were supposed to do.

    The Afghan government was walking around a lame duck, with Trump’s boot print on its rear end for over a year before the withdrawal. Any school child could read the situation very clearly. Is it any wonder the Afghan troops’ pay started drying up, and Afghan government resources started disappearing and ending up in Taliban hands, while the Afghan bigshots prepared for obvious contingencies?

  112. 112.

    Cermet

    WTF is wrong with the media whores and most talking heads? This handover of power went smoothly and essentially bloodless – rare when a civil war is being fought. Hell, the taliban are cooperating with us at the airport!

    Also, for the utter morons that said if we had “just” kept a few thousand soldiers there past the deadline, everything would have been peachy. Anyone that stupid to think the taliban would have no longer targeted our troops at that point are breathing spray paint fumes. That fighting would have escalated into another full blown battle and the taliban could afford to lose thousands to our few hundred and then easily win when public opinion quickly went sour here in the dumb as shit US of a. Then it would have been a blood bath for civilians as we ran for the exits. But the media would then have been happy?

    We have gotten 50 k people out w/o any blood shed! Incredible.

    Americans have known for months that they needed to leave by the end of this month.  Certainly even a hump voter there could have seen the writing on the wall a week before the fall that the country was coming unglued. These morons hung on trying to wring ever penny from their lucrative contracts they had with uncle sam. Talk about greed over good sense.

  113. 113.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @jl: Yes, indeed. What I read about Trump’s deal with the Taliban it’s small wonder the Afghani president had an escape plan worked out. As cazy as this mess is I wonder how much worse it would have been if Trump was able to do what he wanted. Likely ended with Kabul flattened and thousands on all sides dead.

  114. 114.

    The Pale Scot

    Something that has never been “up” except in the minds of the deluded cannot fall.

    It’s been estimated that cost of an Afghan army capable of controlling the territory would cost 5x the GDP of Afghanistan. I can’t remember if that includes heroin revenues, I think it does, but I’m not sure.

  115. 115.

    Immanentize

    @Steeplejack: @Enhanced Voting Techniques: I am really trying to think about the Afghanistan situation from the perspective th ethe Taliban plus the people of Afghanistan. There is pretty wide agreement that the general population thought that both were pretty awful. The Taliban was ruthless and hard while the Afghan Government was crooked and indifferent. And they were fighting all over the country and people were dying. In that situation, isn’t it rational to pick a winner and at least eliminate one horrible institution is your life?

    And the Taliban — they want US out and they also want to run the country. They failed the first time at running the country, so they are trying to get the former govt folks to stay at work running the sewer systems, water plants, electricity, and tax collection, etc. They cannot look weak, so no public “extension” of the August 31 deadline for leaving. But they also do not want/cannot afford a hot war with the US. It seems to be going very smoothly given all the circumstances.

  116. 116.

    SpaceUnit

    All our Christian pro-life republicans are currently on their knees praying for a bloodbath.  A large portion of the media as well.

  117. 117.

    Ruckus

    @Adam L Silverman:

    My cousin’s husband was an officer in the AF for 30 yrs. I believe he spent most of that going to classes like those you describe. In theory getting up there position wise in the military isn’t just spending time. Now I’ve met officers who believed they could be the highest level based on their concept of self, but they were wrong. I’ve met officers who thought that lying was a great way to move ahead, but it isn’t. (Neither is actually different from any way of life, but it is/can be more harmful in the military.)

    The complexities of actual, real government and it’s major parts is a lot more difficult if one is a self involved git. And the world is awash with self involved gits. Ones who never see or understand the bigger picture, who even have the ability to see or understand the bigger picture.

  118. 118.

    Roger Moore

    @trollhattan: 
    The sad part is that prisons have actually been a major success of California’s vaccination campaign. We peaked at around 800 new cases per day during the worst of last winter’s outbreak. Now it’s down to about 8 cases per day, even as the rest of the state is dealing with a serious outbreak. There has been only one death in prison over the past couple of months. If the whole state had the same level of vaccination as our prisons, we could have avoided the summer outbreak.

  119. 119.

    jl

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: The Afghan president’s behavior, along with other Afghan government bigshots, was very corrupt and cowardly (edit: but sadly maybe realistic). I think I read in the news that he is heading back to Afghanistan to participate in the current negotiations. The best slant I can think of is that he decided to leave the country to see what the victorious Taliban would do before deciding to retire to luxury, set up some tinpot pretend government in exile, or go back and see what can be salvaged.

    I trust the Taliban as far as I can throw a house on fire. If they have reformed themselves to some extent, probably the only reason is that they learned a lesson in how easily they were defeated after the initial US invasion. I read that they are negotiating with China for some kind of sponsorship deal, which makes sense. They’ll probably have to reform themselves up to Chinese standards of behavior, which are quite low, but probably somewhat better than those in the previous Taliban government.

  120. 120.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Cermet: Adam explained  the details in blog posts but the TLDR version is the Beltway Media is vested in this fantasy of an American Empire project.

  122. 122.

    Immanentize

    @Ruckus:

    The complexities of actual, real government and it’s major parts is a lot more difficult if one is a self involved git.

    I am going to use this, if I may, as a motivational quote tomorrow for new law students, but replacing “real government” with “practice of Law.” Thank you!

  124. 124.

    jl

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Trump A/B tests his base on everything. The resulting random lurches from one extreme policy to another at random times at the whim of the Trump base, along with Trump’s whims and random perceived wounds to his ego, would have produced very interesting results. A blessing to people around the world that toxic fool lost the election.

  125. 125.

    Ruckus

    @Gravenstone:

    With that, I invite each and every MP to take to the front lines and help secure the airfield until  the evacuation is ended.

    You don’t want them on the front lines. It would only make things worse. Now some of them might actually learn something from the experience, but it’s just as likely to be the wrong thing as what might work or work better.

    Everyone wants to be an armchair whatever, it’s easy, it gets you a place on the playground, and possibly a place with a spotlight. But as they say on Broadway, those lights are hot and they show all your flaws. And most people know talking out your ass, it’s just that some people do it and make  money out of it.

  126. 126.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @jl:  Afghan President; it’s really hard to get to angry with the guy considering Trump as president called him a loser could die for all Trump cared. I am sure in that guys mind he was the one betrayed by cowards.

    As for the Taliban, we will see. But I think 20 twenty years of getting shit bombed out of them and seeing the good stuff the American allies were getting must have made an impression of them that been too balls to the walls zealots wasn’t the way to go. At the very lest the real fire eaters in the Taliban are dead by now.

  128. 128.

    Roger Moore

    @Ruckus:

    Because the market is made upon money movement. You take out the military/industrial complex and that’s a big, constant, expensive segment. War makes money for the market. More importantly military equipment makes money for the market. Reduce the need for the equipment and the market slows down. And in the market world, that is a nuclear event.

    Of course this is only an issue if the military spending isn’t replaced by anything.  If the US government stops spending money on the military, it’s likely to start spending it somewhere else.  If it doesn’t, that isn’t a sign that we need to spend more money on the military by starting a war somewhere; it’s a sign that we need to stop treating military spending differently from the rest of government spending.

    This gets back to the whole stupid “government spending didn’t dig us out of the Great Depression; WWII did” argument.  To the extent that WWII dug us out of the Great Depression, it was through massive government spending.  The reason a war can do that when ordinary Keynesian spending can’t isn’t because military spending has greater economic power than an equivalent amount of other government spending; if anything, it probably has a lower multiplier effect than other spending.  The difference is that military spending is different politically.  Conservatives who would never support deficit spending just to save the lives of citizens dying of hunger and homelessness will jump at the opportunity to spend 10 times as much on the military.

  129. 129.

    Hoodie

    @jl: It’s not just the agreement.  One of Trump’s last acts was to draw down US forces to 2500, which left Biden with a choice to leave or to throw thousands of troops back in and somehow   push the Taliban back to a point where they might agree to more favorable terms, which would never happen because the Taliban doesn’t have to agree to anything that isn’t total victory given that there is no effective opposition to them.   I guess we could have put more troops in there to help people leave . . . oh, yeah, that’s what we’re doing now in a smaller, more defensible footprint near Kabul that allows us to get more of the people tied to us out.

  130. 130.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Immanentize:isn’t it rational to pick a winner and at least eliminate one horrible institution is your life?

    What did Cicero say, something like “In peace it’s important to be on the morally right side, in civil war it’s important to be on the strongest side”

  131. 131.

    Roger Moore

    @Immanentize: ​
     

    They cannot look weak, so no public “extension” of the August 31 deadline for leaving. But they also do not want/cannot afford a hot war with the US.

    The US also has enormous economic leverage. Right now, all the Afghan government’s money is frozen by the US government, and the Taliban understand that we’re never going to unfreeze it if they don’t play ball right now. They won’t stay in power for long if they can’t keep basic services functioning, and they can’t do that without the money we have control over.

  132. 132.

    Ruckus

    @Immanentize:

    They are talking about the media’s Biden approval rating, not the countries approval rating.

    Biden is not doing what republican presidents would do, so they don’t approve, because their paymasters don’t approve. They rarely get to choose what they write about, they get a storyline and unless they can prove overwhelmingly that the storyline is wrong they have to go with the storyline. It’s like in my machine shop we did things my way. In the job I just had I (mostly!) did things the bosses way. Both ways got the job done we just worked from different angles. I’ve rarely seen a job that one gets to do any way they want, unless they own the business.

  133. 133.

    Another Scott

    Since I rarely get out of the boat for extended periods, I missed this (from al Jazeera):

    2 hours ago (17:04 GMT)

    Biden to stick to August 31 Afghanistan pullout deadline: US media
    US President Joe Biden has decided to stick to his August 31 deadline to pull American forces out of Afghanistan, US media reported Tuesday.

    Biden made the decision after talks with G7 counterparts and a demand by the Taliban that the United States not extend its stay past the end of this month, CNN, Fox News and other media reported, citing senior US officials.

    It might be why the speech hasn’t happened yet.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  135. 135.

    jl

    @Hoodie: Thanks, I wasn’t aware of Trump’s late draw downs.

    Gosh golly gee, if only we had some industry, some means, whose job was to disseminate important facts that would help us lesser people understand what was going on with extremely important public policy issues. But maybe that is just me lost in silly notions.

  136. 136.

    Roger Moore

    @jl:

    I read that they are negotiating with China for some kind of sponsorship deal, which makes sense. They’ll probably have to reform themselves up to Chinese standards of behavior, which are quite low, but probably somewhat better than those in the previous Taliban government.

    I suspect that Chinese standards are going to be a lot tighter in terms of their religious enforcement.  China is oppressing its own Muslim minority right now, and they aren’t going to be happy with a government they’re subsidizing imposing a strict Wahhabi version of Sharia law.

  138. 138.

    cain

    @Steeplejack:

    This is again all performative art. Even with the GOP + press demanding – it’s just like abortion – the fetus is all beautiful wonderful, but once born – they are nothing but a drain on the state and I won’t pay my taxes for that! Instead, there will be criticizing Biden for bringing in 100k Islamists into the country.

  139. 139.

    cain

    @geg6:

    Drumming at 80 is truly something miraculous. Even my poor Neil Peart didn’t get to be that old before throwing off his mortal coil.

  140. 140.

    Another Scott

    nycsouthpaw has a Tweet that Biden’s remarks will now start at 4:30 PM ET.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  141. 141.

    polyorchnid octopunch

    This is almost entirely tapdancing around the truth that hegemony has left the United States, and this particular event absolutely shows this to the world.

    American press doesn’t want to acknowledge this because it makes them less important.

    I think a lot of people in that world are not going to enjoy the next ten to twenty years… gonna be a lot of hits to the ego coming for them.

  142. 142.

    Steeplejack

    @Roger Moore:

    Agreed.

    I looked at those pictures of dozens (hundreds?) of pristine armored vehicles in motor pools in Afghanistan and all I could think was that some U.S. military contractor made out like a bandit.

  143. 143.

    CaseyL

    RIP, Charlie.  You were the best, and you lived your best life doing it.  How many people get to do that?

    Regarding the evacuation of Afghans – there has perhaps never been a better illustration of perfectly internalized doublethink than Fox News, and its viewers.

    One show screams at Biden for not evacuating everyone in Afghanistan fast enough.

    And the very next show screams that we can’t let any Afghans in because they’re all terrorists-in-waiting and part of the Great Replacement Conspiracy and whatnot.

    And Fox viewers just watch and nod at both, jaws slightly agape and eyes dull.

  144. 144.

    Gravenstone

    @Ruckus: You don’t much skill to be a human shield.

    “Front line is that way. You fellas are posted about 50 meters beyond it. Now git!”

  146. 146.

    cain

    @Cermet: It’s because they all believe in American exceptionalism – and think we’d just slaughter them. Then they can write headlines criticizing that – tsk-tsking the brutal use of troops. Fuck em.

  148. 148.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Roger Moore:they aren’t going to be happy with a government they’re subsidizing imposing a strict Wahhabi version of Sharia law.

    ,.. On China’s border.

  150. 150.

    stinger

    @Immanentize:

    Well slap my ass and call me Susan!

    Will do, as soon as you send me your phone number. Luckily, your meaning is clear (and inviting) despite the missing vocative comma.

  151. 151.

    rikyrah

    FAAFO
    With Ms Delta Rona if you want to ??

    Andy Slavitt ??? (@ASlavitt) tweeted at 2:04 PM on Tue, Aug 24, 2021:
    NEW: 2 brand new studies give a fresh look at vaccine performance vs Delta.

    The bottom line is run don’t walk to get vaccinated if you’re eligible. There’s a 29x reduction in hospitalizations— even against Delta.

    And a couple more things.1/ https://t.co/AICEpDaY56

  152. 152.

    Mary G

    @Wyatt Salamanca: I love this story from your link:

    While an unassuming presence on stage, letting his playing do the talking, Watts certainly understood his value within the band; Most famously, Watts responded to a late-night drunken phone call from Jagger, asking, “Where’s my drummer?,” by shaving, putting on a suit and tie, going to the singer’s hotel room, knocking on the door and punching him in the face, telling Jagger, “Don’t ever call me your drummer again. You’re my f—ing singer!”

    Shaving and putting on a suit and tie to go punch someone in the face is so very Charlie, always dapper. I have put on Exile on Main Street. Fifty years of amazing music.

  153. 153.

    Another Scott

    This may be another reason why Biden’s speech has been delayed until 4:30 PM ET –

    The government is considering using its ability to grant parole, a temporary status for noncitizens to come to America, for Afghans who pass security checks but have not completed an SIV or P2 case, a senior Biden official said.

    "Parole authority provides flexibility."

    — J.p. Lawrence (@JpLawrence3) August 24, 2021

    (via nycsouthpaw)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  156. 156.

    Kay

    @Adam L Silverman:

    We have room for all of these people in the US despite what the Stephen Millers of the world think. But at some point someone is going to have to delineate a criteria for who we bring out

    I’m sure they’re already doing this. Which is why we can’t “waive” everything.
    Also? Not to be a jerk and I’m extremely pro-immigration but any job where the employee speaks the native language and his or her employer does not includes that employee being a “translator”.
    They’ve been blowing smoke up our asses for 20 years on this thing. Maybe they could start just telling the truth and see where that goes?
    We’re not getting everyone who wants to get out, out. It’s a process that excludes.

  157. 157.

    Ken

    @Steeplejack:  But it’s a question of basic logistics, almost like a question of physics: how much volume can you pump through a pipe of a certain diameter?

    There are of course answers for the physics question, and its variants.  The political-sociological question, not so much.

  158. 158.

    topclimber

    @Kay: I got here real late so maybe it has been asked: Do 10,000 translators include their immediate family members? We wouldn’t want today’s good guys to become tomorrow’s Taliban tools because of threats to spouses and children.

  159. 159.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    I am thinking, if you took the movie Team America; World Police, and change the characters in the movie who were actors with reporters, that would be a reasonable summery of was going in Afghanistan.

  162. 162.

    Gin & Tonic

    I just walked a few hours in the centre of Kyiv. I have rarely observed such joy. The people looked just happy. This country so deserves it. happy #Ukraine30
    — Stéphane Siohan (@stefsiohan) August 24, 2021

    Today is the 30th anniversary of Ukrainian independence.

  166. 166.

    Ruckus

    @Gravenstone:

    See I have at least a minor level of military thinking. The front line is The Front Line! I hadn’t thought about putting them past that, which would solve so many problems…..

  170. 170.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Another Scott: I have no objection to exceptional treatment for these people, who are obviously in an exceptional situation. I just wish they’d devote resources to processing family reunification paperwork that’s been in queue for years.

  172. 172.

    WaterGirl

    @Steeplejack: I didn’t permanently delete it or anything; the comments will still be there when it goes back up at 4:15.

    What’s not cool about that?

    edit: original post is back up. A new LIVE post for the Biden speech will go up shortly.

  173. 173.

    Ruckus

    @Immanentize:

    They have been at war for a very long time. And we always, when in situations like this do our specialty, which is to spend money on equipment and bodies. They don’t have that to spend so they use terror. Which is much harder to overcome than just military force, because just military force is aimed towards other military force. Except that our military force far outweighs theirs. It is our resolve that is weaker. Resolve won this one. Also we didn’t have the means to wipe them out because our being there helped their recruiting because of their resolve. It’s a damn civil war as others have stated and the side that doesn’t seem to mind killing people won.

  175. 175.

    Kay

    @topclimber:

    I don’t know but someone knows. The dramatic photos of the crush at the airport really don’t shed a lot of light on what’s actually happening here, or has to happen. Which media people knew.

    We know this is a sorting process. If it wasn’t we wouldn’t be hearing about the robotics team, or “my specific translator and his family” from the CBS news team or whatever.

  176. 176.

    Ruckus

    @SpaceUnit:

    Their religion has flaws that are unapparent to the followers.

    Also a lot of the media work for people who are followers.

    It’s not as positive a system as many think it is.

  177. 177.

    Cacti

    @Gravenstone: Based on the photos from the meetups, It’s obvious that the comment section here is mostly an AARP convention.  I’m just trying to be helpful to those of you with limited tech and physical abilities.

    They do have hands free software now for you olds.

  179. 179.

    The Pale Scot

    @cain:

    Well Neil was a much more active drummer who had worn out his shoulder ligaments a decade ago. Shows this raise the retirement age BS is fine for white collar workers. There aren’t many 70 year old electricians or bricklayers around. I’m sure they can learn to code

  180. 180.

    Another Scott

    @Gin & Tonic: I’m sorry your family is still going through that. :-(

    No doubt you’ve seen this, but in case you haven’t (from April):

    Many embassies and consulates continue to have a significant backlog of all categories of immigrant visas. This prioritization plan instructs posts to maximize their limited resources to accommodate as many immediate relative and fiancé(e) cases as possible with a goal of, at a minimum, preventing the backlog from growing in these categories and hopefully reducing it. However, the prioritization plan also instructs posts to schedule and adjudicate some cases in Tier Three and Tier Four each month. The Department recognizes that visa applicants, particularly those in Tiers Three and Four, will face continued delays. We further acknowledge that certain programs, including the diversity visa program, operate on a fiscal year basis as required by law. The Department values the diversity visa program and is making every effort to process as many diversity visa cases as possible, consistent with other priorities, despite the severe operational constraints and backlog resulting from the COVID pandemic. However, as a result of COVID the number of visas issued in lower-priority preference categories or in such programs as the diversity visa program likely will not approach the statutory ceiling in Fiscal Year 2021.

    NPR (from 2/24/2021):

    President Biden on Wednesday revoked a freeze that his predecessor had put on many types of visas due to the COVID-19 pandemic, saying the order did not advance U.S. interests and hurt industries and individuals alike.

    “It harms the United States, including by preventing certain family members of United States citizens and lawful permanent residents from joining their families here,” Biden said in a proclamation revoking the measure.

    Former President Donald Trump had frozen “green cards” for new immigrants during the pandemic, arguing that the dramatic clampdown on legal immigration was vital to safeguarding the U.S. labor market during the pandemic to protect jobs and for public health reasons.

    […]

    BloombergLaw (from July):

    Backlog of Over 2.6 Million Cases
    Despite the initiatives to undo these bans, the Department of State, which is responsible for the issuance of visas, has a backlog of over 2.6 million cases. Of these, nearly a half-million cases are documentarily qualified but cannot seem to get through the system. Interviews for qualifying applicants are continuously canceled, and there is no consistency or predictability in how future appointments will be handled.

    The Biden administration also brought back a longstanding policy of the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, which had been rescinded under Trump, to give deference to prior approvals when adjudicating extensions of stay involving the same parties and position.

    This return to deference was a positive step for many visa classifications, such as the H-1B, which is the most common professional work visa. This eliminates the needless delays of issuing requests for evidence allowing USCIS to focus their resources more efficiently.

    Many other former draconian memos and proposed policies were eliminated, such as allowing denials to be issued without a request for evidence, and adding a new H-1B lottery selection criteria favoring companies who paid the highest wages for foreign nationals.

    The Biden administration had announced its objective to expand and implement immigration policies and regulations to attract investors and create business opportunities for foreigners. Among the initiatives discussed, include increasing the H-1B cap visa numbers, the International Entrepreneurial Parole Program, establishing pathways to citizenship, and expanding dual intent for F-1 students, to name just a few.

    It’s a huge problem and expanding government offices takes a very long time (training, security checks, investigations, etc., etc.). :-(

    Good luck. Hang in there.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  181. 181.

    Ruckus

    @Immanentize:

    Long ago in another lifetime, I had a neighbor/friend who had gone to law school and failed his bar exam. He thought that school was enough. I helped him a bit to study for his second, and successful attempt. What I noticed in quizzing him was that the specifics of the law, the structure of the language, are both far different than real life. It really is a foreign language and concept and if you can’t speak it, you won’t be able to practice law.

  182. 182.

    Kay

    Numbers! I could hug him.

    John Harwood
    @JohnJHarwood
    43m
    perspective on evacuation levels:
    a month ago, 20K Afghans had applied for special immigrant visas
    they have families
    Biden estimated total of Afghan allies needing evacuation at 50K-65K
    recent estimates of US citizens there: 5K-15K
    number evacuated since late July: 63,900

    So they had/have 45k to process who didn’t apply for visas, and that’s AFTER they’re determined to be IN the 45k.

  186. 186.

    Ruckus

    @Roger Moore:

    I agree, I just didn’t go into enough detail.

    The military/industrial complex (side note, I’ve made money doing jobs for the MIC and done regularly it can be a profitable business. I did specialty machining work, at one time I was the only non MIC owned business that owned and used a very special and expensive piece of equipment. The MIC work was a minor part of my business but still it should be noted.) is big business. It answers 2 issues for conservative politicians. A lot of their sponsors have just a bit more money than is necessary for life and therefore a lot of power. And the MIC puts money back in those sponsors pockets that taxes take out. Plus those conservative politicians get outsized power and money that their skills would otherwise not give them.

  187. 187.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay:   John Harwood has been on the Jen Rubin path for some time now.  He says smart stuff.  He seems to work hard.

  190. 190.

    Geminid

    @jl: This news was reported, just like the bogus peace deal trump negotiated last year with the Taliban was. But these stories were not given wide notice. There was a lot going on. And most Americans were not interested in Afghanistan, and were happy to forget about the country and it’s people.

  192. 192.

    Ken

    @Baud: I’ll say less than a 15% chance he returns with documentation showing Trump took payments from the Taliban to cut the Afghan government out of the negotiations.

  193. 193.

    trollhattan

    @Ken:

    Trump getting payola from the Taliban would be the most on-brand thing of Trump’s life. So I give it 1:3 odds.

  195. 195.

    Miss Bianca

    @JMG: Sad, but then again, the guy had a great, long run doing work he loved and was recognized and rewarded for. We should all be so lucky. RIP, Charlie W! A great drummer and apparently a great guy as well.

  196. 196.

    Ruckus

    @Baud:

    If I recall correctly the Taliban want us out of their country. They aren’t the ones who conspired to bring down at least 3 buildings including the Pentagon back what seems like a bazillion yrs ago. And we are leaving, seemingly with their graces, which makes sense, if they tried something we could muster a pretty reasonable force in a short order. It would be costly and likely fail in the long run but we could make their lives miserable and shorter. In the long run it would likely make things worse, as we often seem want to do. But they know we have the power even if not the will to do this. So cooperation is for them a far better path. Which is why so many of their countrymen seemed to understand far better than we have in the not that distant past.

  197. 197.

    Cacti

    @J R in WV: Grandpa, you always promise that you’re going to stop talking to me, but then you keep doing it.

    You just can’t quit me.  lol

  198. 198.

    Ruckus

    @jl:

    An amazing record of depravity,

    viciousness, and incompetence.

    To be engraved upon his gravestone, the most honest assessment of his entire life.

  200. 200.

    Ruckus

    @trollhattan:

    The only part I’d disagree with is that he’s so stupid I’d bet the payoff was a coupon for a McDee burger and a nice “So long don’t let the sun hit ya where the shine will blind.”

  201. 201.

    Medicine Man

    @Ruckus: ​
    That’s depressing. You see, I was joking in a cynical fashion, but by your account it sounds like war good enough for the market ™ that everyone with a sufficient portfolio is essentially being paid to put on blinders regarding the prospects of the Afghan adventure.

  202. 202.

    J R in WV

    @Ruckus:

    My uncle ran a machine shop in Columbus OH. They would get jobs in that involved a piece of metal delivered by security staff, to be machined to spec. The security staff would remove all shavings and fragments, along with the final machined part.

    It would all be weighed, shavings, bits, parts, final product, be weighed to assure that none of the original metal cube was missing. Vacuming and brushing and such would continue until all the metal was recovered, along with the produced part(s) for whatever project the drawings and specifications were related to.

    Lenny is gone now, and his shop was sold off long before his retirement and death. But he produced high quality metal parts for super secret squirrel projects for our government. As I’m sure your shops did also.

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