Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

I was promised a recession.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Optimism opens the door to great things.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

People are complicated. Love is not.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

DeSantis transforms Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Bad news for Ron DeSantis is great news for America.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Friday Morning Open Thread: All We Can Do Is Whatever We Can

Friday Morning Open Thread: All We Can Do Is Whatever We Can

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… The U.S. said that more than 100,000 people have been safely evacuated from Kabul, but as many as 1,000 Americans and tens of thousands more Afghans are struggling to leave in one of history’s largest airlifts. Gen. Frank McKenzie, the U.S. Central Command chief overseeing the evacuation, said about 5,000 people awaited flights at the airfield on Thursday.

And more continued to arrive Friday…

Britain said Friday its evacuations from Afghanistan will end within hours, and the main British processing center for eligible Afghans has been closed. Defense Secretary Ben Wallace told Sky News there would be “eight or nine” evacuation flights on Friday. British troops will leave over the next few days.

The Spanish government said it has ended its airlift. Sweden’s foreign minister said its evacuation was also over but not everyone got out. And the French European affairs minister, Clement Beaune, said on Europe 1 radio that the country will end its operation “soon” but may seek to extend it until after Friday night.

The Taliban have said they’ll allow Afghans to leave via commercial flights after the U.S. withdrawal, but it remains unclear which airlines would return to an airport controlled by the militants.

They have asked Turkey to operate Kabul airport, but a decision will be made “after the administration (in Afghanistan) is clear,” Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Friday. Taliban leaders have been holding talks with former Afghan leaders, including former President Hamid Karzai and Abdullah Abdullah, who headed the previous government’s reconciliation council, tasked with negotiating a deal with the Taliban…

Reader Interactions

120Comments

  2. 2.

    Baud

    I have a strange feeling that Biden’s resolve in the face of yesterday’s attack has made the war hawks understand that they have lost.

  5. 5.

    debbie

    @Baud: 

    I’ll take that bet. In fact, I’m volunteering to listen to Glenn Beck for as long as I can stand it to confirm they know no such thing.

  10. 10.

    Baud

    @Baud:

    “Lost” as in Biden isn’t going to waiver on the pullout.  Not in the larger fight about US policy or in punishing Biden for standing up to them.

  15. 15.

    John S.

    I admire the hypocrisy of our NATO allies. After trying to guilt Biden into staying in Afghanistan, they all ran to the press about how disappointed they were in America because he declined.

    Then the following week, they all pull out one by one. Moral responsibility for thee but not for me I suppose.

  18. 18.

    Betty Cracker

    I’ve been mostly avoiding TV coverage of Afghanistan since the pullout began, but I did watch Biden’s remarks and Psaki’s briefing yesterday. Do y’all think it makes sense to continue calling on the Fox News nepotism douche?

    I’ve enjoyed some clips of Psaki dunking on that dumb motherfucker, but IMO, that tactic has outlived its usefulness and it just elevates the creep’s invariably bad-faith questions.

  19. 19.

    germy

    212 House Republicans voted AGAINST the John Lewis Voting Rights Act – including Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger.

  22. 22.

    germy

    I think it’s really sweet that all the major news networks came together to basically do one giant telethon to save the war in Afghanistan

    — L Ron Mexico (@LRonMexico) August 26, 2021

  23. 23.

    Geminid

    @Baud: The Republican performance in the last 20 hours has been discreditable. It’s as if IS-K said “Jump!” and Republicans answered, “How high?”

  25. 25.

    MomSense

    @germy: 
    They’re anti-treason but pro Republican cruelty and racism. I guess that makes them moderates by current media standards.

  28. 28.

    Baud

    @Geminid:

    2022 and 2024 will be a test of whether our voters are capable of turning out to reward good actions rather than punishing bad actions.  I hope so, because we need to break the cycle we’ve been repeating since 1994.

  30. 30.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: You’re right, it is hard to say. My view of how the exchanges land is no doubt shaped by my social media bubble, but I get the impression that most of the time it’s a wash (we think Jen is great, they think lil’ doocy gave that impertinent woman what-fer), but sometimes it’s far more valuable for them than us, like when Biden called on Doocy yesterday.

  32. 32.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’m inclined to agree with you, Betty. A moment’s entertainment isn’t worth giving him so much oxygen.

    The only useful thing (and even that utility is debatable) to come out of young Peter’s recent prominence is that I finally, finally, after I-don’t-know-how-many years, have learned which of the two F&F dudes is Steve Doocy. 

  33. 33.

    debbie

    @John S.:

    Really nice that our “allies” wouldn’t offer to assist in flying out Americans and Afghani interpreters, etc.  //

  34. 34.

    Princess

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:  I don’t know that we know that they are all “struggling to leave.” I would be shocked if they all did want to leave — some are surely citizens staying with aged parents etc. who feel they can’t leave. But others are probably people in remote parts of the country who can’t get to Kabul.

  35. 35.

    John S.

    @Betty Cracker: It’s really a catch-22. But also deeply ironic that the “fuck your feelings” are the first to whine when they don’t get equal time or consideration for their feelings.

    If you ignore them, it just adds more fuel to the whining. If you don’t ignore them, they whine away. So what’s the solution?

  36. 36.

    Tazj

    I heard Biden say yesterday that there are many Americans who have a lot of family still in Afghanistan, many of these people have dual citizenship and have not made a decision on whether to leave yet. He said that even after the major evacuation ends they can still get help from the US to leave.I would think this would mean arranging commercial air transportation if the airport opens to it again.@Dorothy A. Winsor

  39. 39.

    Ken

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: My prediction is that after a further 1000 Americans are reported evacuated, people will claim that there are still 1000 Americans needing evacuation

    Also in five years, if he’s still around, Chuck Norris will make a movie where he goes on a one-man mission to Afghanistan to rescue the American prisoners from ISIS torture camps.

  40. 40.

    germy

    https://www.reuters.com/world/evacuations-afghanistan-by-country-2021-08-26/

    Italy said that by Aug. 26, 4,832 Afghans had been brought out of Afghanistan. Some 4,575 have arrived so far in Italy.

    Poland has evacuated about 900 people from Afghanistan, including about 300 women and 300 children, Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said on Thursday.

    Qatar said on Thursday it had so far helped evacuate more than 40,000 people to Doha and “evacuation efforts will continue in the coming days in consultation with international partners”.

  41. 41.

    Kay

    “Matthew Yglesias
    @mattyglesias

    Cable news hosts decided to flood the airwaves with the ass-covering rationizations of the people who spent twenty years in Afghanistan wasting soldiers lives and billions of aid on a policy catastrophe while lying about it relentlessly to the American people.”

    Remember- all of this was a deliberate editorial decision. They decided.
    The saddest part is we’ve been in Afghanistan for so long there are REAMS of government reports where these people do LESS lying than they are doing right now, where they had to admit and document what was really going on. All of that is just swept away as they frantically cover their asses with a brand new pack of lies.

  42. 42.

    Barbara

    @Baud: ​Living as I do in the national capital area, I can tell you that much of the histrionics relates to losing the money spigot that accrues to contractors that support American presence. Twenty years could be an entire career spent supplying our people in Afghanistan.

  45. 45.

    Anne Laurie

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Who are the 1000 Americans still “struggling to leave”?

    I’m not seeing firm numbers, but from reports they seem to be mostly American citizens with Afghan family members they don’t want to leave behind, plus some maybe some NGO workers who feel obligated to be last-out-the-door.

    As many people have pointed out, we can’t insist American citizens leave… even if we know we’ll be dinged by the GOP if those stragglers end up as ‘hostages’, or worse.

  46. 46.

    Butter Emails

    @John S.:

    I admire the hypocrisy of our NATO allies. After trying to guilt Biden into staying in Afghanistan, they all ran to the press about how disappointed they were in America because he declined.

    Then the following week, they all pull out one by one. Moral responsibility for thee but not for me I suppose.

    It’s always been an ass covering exercise on the part of other NATO members. Most of them had withdrawn all or the bulk of their forces from Afghanistan years ago. They have known the US is leaving for months. Biden is just a convenient scapegoat they can use to deflect political fallout at home. I’m a little irritated that they’re bad mouthing the US commitment to NATO and our allies at the same time US soldiers are 90+%  of the forces securing the evacuation and dying to provide that security.

  48. 48.

    OzarkHillbilly

    I will be glad when this week is finally over next week.

    On Sunday ViviLou was born and on Monday put into ICU, (coming home this Monday we hope), Billie Jean had the run in with the copperhead Sunday night, I had fun with stents on Tuesday, then…

    Got news last night that my “brother” in law has had a stroke and is in the hospital. I have known Little D for better than 20 years first as a friend and coworker, eventually as my little Sis’ significant other. One of the sweetest people I have ever met with the patience of a saint, which living with little Sis he needed. I have no idea if I will be able to see him any time soon.

    And now TS Ida is now taking aim at the LA coast just west of NOLA. Will be a hurricane when it hits on Sunday with predicted winds >110 MPH, a storm surge of 7-11 ft at the mouth of the Mississippi, and 10-15″ of expected rainfall (the map shows a spot 15-20″ just south of NOLA).

    When my son got run over by the truck and I went down to them thru the worst of it, I was as usual waking up hours before the sun. I did a lot of predawn walking around Gretna, eventually finding my way to the top of the levee along the Mississippi. Looking down at the river, I noticed a thing that has stayed with me ever since: The river in front of me was noticeably higher than the ground behind me.

    Where the fuck is 15-20″ of rain gonna go?

  49. 49.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Baud: For a minute, I thought you were talking about horse deworming paste.

    Yesterday, a friend told me two friends of her in Florida had breakthrough cases of COVID, but felt better because they were taking medicines. To my friend’s horror, their doctor had given them hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.

  51. 51.

    Betty Cracker

    @John S.: If it were up to me, I’d ignore them. They can whine all they want, but the fact is, Dems are on the short end of the “media fairness” stick and have been for many years.

    Fox News and a constellation of lesser “conservative” outlets function as the ministry of propaganda for the Republican Party. Trump demonstrated the unshakable nature of that bond during his term. Ron DeSantis confirms it still exists by going on Fox this week as Florida experienced record COVID deaths, cases and hospitalizations to criticize Biden’s handling of the pandemic and say he should follow Florida’s lead — with a straight face, unchallenged by the host.

    My point is, Dems don’t have anything remotely comparable. So why treat the Republican propaganda outlet as a “straight news” organization? They are a hostile actor with a big platform. They don’t need amplification.

  52. 52.

    Barbara

    @OzarkHillbilly: A little further east or west at landfall makes all the difference. I hope it isn’t a direct hit.

    Very sorry about your friend, and congrats on the new grandbaby.

    My favorite Robert Frost quote: I can sum up what I have learned about life in three words: It goes on.

  53. 53.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @John S.: I was thinking along those lines too, but on 2nd thought I am pretty sure the reality is a lot more complicated. Their people were dependent upon a US presence in order to do the job they were sent to do and they most likely did not have the capability to work with out them there. It sucks but the US has to draw a line and others have to make do the best they can with it.

  55. 55.

    Ken

    @Barbara: Any chance of a “peace dividend”?  We’ve been spending around a hundred billion a year, averaged over 20 years. It’s probably been less over the last decade, but it seems there could be a noticeable reduction in the Pentagon budget.

  57. 57.

    Soprano2

    @germy: Russian State broadcaster RT photoshopped weapons into an image of a refugee family from Afghanistan

    How many hours before that image ends up on a right wing Web site and is endlessly tweeted?

  58. 58.

    germy

    Scoop: the group behind the all-girls Afghan robotics team has sent a cease and desist letter to an Oklahoma woman, telling her to stop taking credit for their rescue in her media appearances

    From ⁦@sarahellison⁩ & me https://t.co/hivA4NoZ0F

    — Elahe Izadi | الهه (@ElaheIzadi) August 26, 2021

    “The media let her be a white savior claiming the girls were saved by her,” said a spokesman for the Qatar Foreign Ministry. “They came to global attention because of their work … so it should be about them and their courage and the work they have done.”

    — Elahe Izadi | الهه (@ElaheIzadi) August 26, 2021

  59. 59.

    Baud

    @Ken:

    Depends on how many Ds we can elect?  There’s already a push to reduce the military budget among progressive Dems, but we’ll a solid supermajority before we can make real headway.

  60. 60.

    Barbara

    @Ken: Maybe not zero but not much. More like, they will feel compelled to throw a bone to those who are suddenly defunded.

  61. 61.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @debbie: A number of them have been. UK and NZ are 2 I’ve read of.

    ETA thinking about it, I think France too.

    ETA2: whatever happens or doesn’t happen at the airport is surely done with US permission and coordination.

  63. 63.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Tazj: I read this AM that the Taliban have requested Turkey’s help with regard to reopening the Kabul airport. Erdogan said, “We’ll see.”

  64. 64.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Baud:

    How does the fact that the state of Georgia is trying to take over elections administration in Fulton County come into play in your mind?

  65. 65.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    I thought it was a mistake to fight with them during Obama, so I hope Biden doesn’t do it.

    There needs to be different people who have different tasks in the Democratic Party. The last thing Biden needs is to put time or energy into fighting cable tv personalities. A lot of what we throw on the President in the Democratic Party is work that should be done by the political apparatus and other actors within the Party. The weakness in the organization isn’t at the Presidential level and all political tactics shouldn’t come from there. We need an effective political side as an organization so the lawmakers can do some actual work.

  66. 66.

    Soprano2

    @OzarkHillbilly: Where the fuck is 15-20″ of rain gonna go?

    Into all kinds of bad places. The flooding will be really bad if they get that much rain in a short period of time. I’d love to go to the WEF national conference that’s there periodically just so I could tour their sewage treatment plant. I’ve heard that it’s quite the thing, the way they have adapted to the terrain down there.

  68. 68.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Barbara:

    My favorite Robert Frost quote: I can sum up what I have learned about life in three words: It goes on.

    Or the Edna St Vincent Millay version: Life goes on; I forget just why.

  72. 72.

    Soprano2

    I think it’s disgusting and predictable that after over a dozen Americans are killed by a suicide bomber, Republicans start calling on Biden to resign (do they realize that would make Kamala Harris president? I bet they do, they’d rather be running against her if my mother’s political junk mail is any guide). Over 3,000 Americans died in the 9-11 attack, and initially they thought it was many more, yet no one was calling on George W. to resign. Gee, what could the difference be?

  74. 74.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @John S.:

    If you ignore them, it just adds more fuel to the whining. If you don’t ignore them, they whine away. So what’s the solution?

    I don’t know that this is a solution, but since they’ve tried treating them like a real news organization, possibly they could try the opposite. Take away their press credentials. Where possible, bar them from federal property. Basically, turn off the spigot. Sure they and their sycophants will whine, but after a while, when they realize that they’ll have to actually do work to investigate and report on anything at all, they’ll just go away. Real work isn’t their strength. Do the same with the other wacko “news” groups and fill those slots with dirty fucking hippy news organizations.

  75. 75.

    MomSense

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    We just had our family reunion on Saturday in my dad’s barn where she used to recite poems (some hers and some others) starting as a young child.  She and my great grandmother and great great aunt were cousins, although they were older than she.  I’ve got some good stories about her. My great great aunt and I were very close and she loved to tell stories.

  76. 76.

    JPL

    @OzarkHillbilly: I did not know that the baby was placed in the ICU and I can’t imagine anything more tragic and sad.   Fingers crossed that she’ll come home on Monday.

    Follow Dorothy’s advice and take it easy.   There are still a few days left in the week.

  77. 77.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Barbara: Yes, location location location, but right now as a father and grandfather 600 miles away, I worry about the worst and hope for something else. :-(

  78. 78.

    JPL

    I think it’s time to put Peter Doocy out to pasteur.   By now Jen can answer his question before he asks it.

  81. 81.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @JPL: RH incompatibility so, very treatable. Still, it’s hard seeing her hooked up to *7 different machines* underneath the UV lights, which only emphasize how tiny and fragile she is when one finally gets to hold her.

    **exaggeration

  82. 82.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @JPL:

    JPL
    AUGUST 27, 2021 AT 8:50 AM
    I think it’s time to put Peter Doocy out to pasteur.

    Boil him in milk? Now THAT is a great idea.

  83. 83.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @MomSense:

    What great memories! Reciting reams of poetry in front of audiences was major community entertainment for our forebears, but to have ESVM in the group is something special.

    My own grandmother memorised great lashings of poetry as a child and teenager. I did too, on a lesser scale. I wonder if schools even teach much poetry now, let alone having memorisation requirements.

  84. 84.

    Barbara

    @JPL: ​It actually doesn’t take much for the baby to be placed in the NICU. It’s usually precautionary, for monitoring. The care of premature and medically fragile infants has progressed by lightspeed. Mine was in an ICU for more than 3 weeks and it was all good. I hope that’s what is happening here.

  85. 85.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Baud:

    Unfortunately, yes. I have seen Twitter comments where RWNJs chortle about Peter Doocy pwning Jen Psaki every day. Presumably they’re seeing clips edited by Fox, OAN et al.

  88. 88.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    The weakness has never been in front- D Presidents are good communicators and they hire the best people we have. The weakness is behind- the political people in the broader organization. Build that up.

    Be a political Party. Handle some of the political end so the electeds can focus less on it. Have an actual Party-wide preferred approach for handling FOX and then do that consistently. Delegate. Each individual doesn’t have to craft their own approach and that won’t work anyway because consistency and repitition is what’s neccesary.

  92. 92.

    Geminid

    @Ken: The “peace dividend” may not be so large. While 2 trillion dollars is often mentioned as the actual cost of our ear in Afghanistan, a lot of it is debited to costs like wear and tear on war planes with finite operating lives, and medical care for wounded veterans.

  97. 97.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    The peace dividend could be much larger though, longer term, if Biden’s able to actually shift some of the conventional wisdom away from what we have done the last 20 years. That’s what these people are clinging to. The risk is he goes in a different direction and they’re no longer dominating policy and directing what happens. It changes who gets hired.

  98. 98.

    MontyTheClipArtMongoose

    @Baud: we released artie bremmer, & john hinckley gets weekend passes… let sirhan-squared live a little

  99. 99.

    Geminid

    Two thoughts:

    1) some American born citizens working for NGOs will stay voluntarily, and run the risks of Taliban rule. Afghanistan has not been a safe place to live and work these past years anyway. I am reminded of the young American woman in Michener’s Caravans (1963), who despite the best efforts of the American diplomat tasked to rescue her, just would not leave the nomad tribe she had joined.

    2) I have no problem with U.S. allies who are dropping out of the evacuation. They may have done this in coordination with U.S. officials, possibly by request. This operation is in its final days, and like it or not volume will decline. Our own forces will soon be withdrawing in a tightly planned process, and at this point it may be best that we “go it alone.” There will be thousands of people left unevacuated, but to be realistic, there will be hundreds of thousands of at-risk Afghans left behind no matter what.  The next phase of this process begins September 1st, and it is important that we reach that date with as little bloodshed as possible.

  100. 100.

    MontyTheClipArtMongoose

    @Betty Cracker: by 2032, peter doocy will be moderating a presidential debate

    (assuming we still have elections, then, & not an indefinite extension of the josh hawley-tulsi gabbard national unity regime)

  101. 101.

    LivinginExile

    @OzarkHillbilly: Lived in the French Quarter on and off for years.  I swear when standing on a second floor  balcony on Decatur Street, facing the river, the top of the levee appeared to be at eye level.  At times the water was very near the top of the levee.  Not something you want to think about while living there.

  107. 107.

    JPL

    @Hoodie: haha   Since I already had my coffee,  obviously I have no excuses for not typing pasture.   It was a good mistake though.

  108. 108.

    Citizen Alan

    @Soprano2:  It just goes to prove what I have been saying for over 20 years. If Al Gore had been president on 911, no republicans would have supported him the way we supported George Bush. They would have impeached him within 6 months.

  109. 109.

    Jackie

    @OzarkHillbilly: My youngest grandson was born 6 weeks early due to my daughter having a prolapsed placenta. I almost lost both of them. Liam was air transported to the nearest children’s hospital and put in the NICU. It was touch and go for several weeks. Today, he’s an 11 year old daredevil full of embracing life with both arms!

    Hang in there and just keep sending your littlest positive thoughts. Hugs to you and Meemaw!

    ETA: Mama is fine, too!

  111. 111.

    taumaturgo

    If Biden holds steady to his commitment to end the war and withdrawal all troops, he may pay a short term political price due to the imbeciles in the MSM – that are like parrots calling the troop withdrawal precipitous when it only took 20 years – but he would go down in history as a politician who rose up above all political pressures to do his job and more importantly, to honor his word. Credit when credit is due.

  114. 114.

    Geminid

    @taumaturgo: Early in this crisis I saw some in the media describe President Biden as “defiant,” and I noted that defiance is often seen as a virtue. In this instance, Biden has defied the foreign policy establishment, the military industrial complex, and the media. None of these entities are much respected by most Americans.

  116. 116.

    Captain C

    @Citizen Alan:

    It just goes to prove what I have been saying for over 20 years. If Al Gore had been president on 911, no republicans would have supported him the way we supported George Bush. They would have impeached him within 6 months minutes.

    FTFY

  119. 119.

    Geminid

    @Uncle Cosmo: How are your neighbors doing, the ones who had the house fire? Will they be able to keep their house? Not everyone in these circumstances can.

  120. 120.

    No One You Know

    @Baud:  Unconscious authoritarianism, with a dash of daddy issues, and the feeling that Someone [else] should Do Something.

    That’s my theory.

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