Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

It’s the corruption, stupid.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Let there be snark.

The willow is too close to the house.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

The GOP couldn’t organize an orgy in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50s.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Ugly on the Inside

Ugly on the Inside

by | 124 Comments

This post is in: 

I want to write something intelligent and incisive about the interview with Lt. Michael Byrd, the officer who shot Ashli Babbit in the must justified shooting in the history of shootings, but all I can think of is “fuck her” and “thank you Lt. Byrd”. He saved countless lives, and the fucking gall of Members of Congress who are spinning conspiracy theories about the death of a crazy insurrectionist is appalling. Someday, if there’s any justice, they’ll face the mob they fed without protection from people like Lt. Byrd, and that mob will consume them.

Reader Interactions

124Comments

  3. 3.

    Scout211

    Watching the NYT video, it’s clear that she and the rest of the insurrectionist we’re going in through the window that was broken. They clearly shouted (several times), “gun!” “gun!” and the officer held his gun steady until she dived through the window. I could only watch it once because it is very disturbing, but it almost looked to me like they shoved her through the window. Shouldn’t they be held accountable?

    Also:  typo? must most

  5. 5.

    BC in Illinois

    I’ve looked at the video numerous times. She was part of a mob, outnumbering the police and the guards by the doorway to the House lobby. She was there while her fellow rioters broke the windows on the doors and the doorway. She was shot climbing through the opening where the window had been.

    Why was she shot? Because she was the first one through.

    And the result? No one else went through that doorway. No one reached the US Representatives at the end of the hall.

    Yeah,

    The most justified shooting in the history of shootings.

  6. 6.

    UncleEbeneezer

    We need to start correctly referring to Babbit as having been part of a “violent, traitorous, mob of domestic terrorists, Nazis and cop-killers.”

  7. 7.

    zhena gogolia

    Why are we in the same country with all these traitors? I just watched a few snippets of McCarthy criticizing Biden for “negotiating with the Taliban” to get Americans out. What a traitor. And he’s the minority leader of the House.

  8. 8.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    The video from the Insurgents side was quite instructive. The insurgents were waving guns and weapons around like pack of idiots and the only thing you could see of the cops on the other side that door was the barrel of their guns point at that crowd and  those barrels never moved and inch. It was obvious those cops were about to shoot and those rioters were so out of it with their own stupid bullshit they refused to see that.

  10. 10.

    trollhattan

    Cautious optimism in the Golden Brown State.

    August 27, 2021 at 11:35 am EDT By Taegan Goddard

    A new Change Research poll in California finds just 42% support a recall of Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) while 57% oppose it.

    Even better news for Newsom: 92% of all Democrats have either already voted (54%) or say they definitely will (38%) — still below Republicans’ 98%, but enough to widen the margin among the likeliest voters.

    Because it leaves out a tally of No party preference voters the survey is incomplete, but the Dem % is very helpful. NB no preference outnumber Republican.

  12. 12.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Scout211: Next time you watch, keep on eye on the rest of the crowd, they were bunch of buffoons.  If anything the cops showed restraint they didn’t keep on firing considering the guys behind her had assault rifles in their hands.

  15. 15.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @trollhattan: More good signs:

    After facing criticism from some Democrats for spending too much money on TV ads and not enough time on face-to-face campaigning, Gov. Gavin Newsom’s anti-recall campaign has kicked into high gear with what officials boast is the largest organizing outreach in the state’s history. And it’s producing dividends, although it’s still very early in the race.

    Newsom operatives say that the early field work they quietly began in March to reach out to their base voters is resulting in ballots being returned at a faster pace than in the bitterly contested 2020 presidential election — and that Democrats are returning more of them — a lot more.

    Of the nearly 1.1 million mail-in ballots that have been returned, 56% have been returned by Democrats, according to Political Data, a California firm that provides voter information to campaigns and pollsters in both parties. The firm found that 22% of the ballots have been returned by Republicans. The company compiles public information on the ballot returns, noting the party, ethnic, age and geographic breakdown as the ballots are received by election departments.

    That kind of lead — roughly 400,000 votes — is significant in a race that is expected to be highly partisan. Major caveat: It is still way early. Those votes represent only 5% of the 22 million ballots that have been mailed to every California voter. And they record only the number of ballots, not the actual votes.

    “If we expect Republican (ballots) to come in a big rush at the end, I think the Democrats need more than a big cushion,” said Paul Mitchell, vice president of Political Data. “Right now they have a 400,000 (ballot) cushion, which is pretty good. I don’t think anyone should get complacent yet.”

    Newsom’s lead strategist, Juan Rodriguez, was cautiously optimistic.

    “When you are in an off-year (election) and you’re already ahead of the pace of what turnout was in the same interval in a presidential election, that tells you that people are beginning to get plugged in,” Rodriguez said. “It’s really early, but I think it just goes to show you that this program is working and people are becoming increasingly aware.”

    …

    The Newsom campaign said it is spending “eight figures” on connecting to Black, Latino, Asian American and Pacific Islander voters. It has sent 24 million text messages, in both English and Spanish, to its target audience of the state’s 10 million Democratic voters

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Gavin-Newsom-s-grassroots-work-against-recall-16409567.php

  16. 16.

    trollhattan

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Nothing I have heard about. Perhaps if Newsom survives and the legislature is feeling frisky, they can tackle it. IIUC it’s a pretty tall mountain to climb, changing the constitutional language.

    I’d like to bill the recall sponsors the actual out-of-pocket costs to run the election, which is well north of $100 million.

  18. 18.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @trollhattan: I suspect seeing that GOP clown school that’s running to replace Newsom might have something to do with it. Newsom can be a bit of flake at times but at lest he living in the real world.  I am pretty sure if the recall happens at lot of Cal conservatives are going to be really, really unhappy with the replacement.

  19. 19.

    trollhattan

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    Good stuff, thanks. Especially liked seeing this last part.

    The Newsom campaign said it is spending “eight figures” on connecting to Black, Latino, Asian American and Pacific Islander voters. It has sent 24 million text messages, in both English and Spanish, to its target audience of the state’s 10 million Democratic voters.

    Mentioned a couple days back the freakout when Jerry Brown was tending his ranch in Colusa instead of lapping the state campaigning against Meg Whitman. Jerry was right and won easily. Newsom’s no Jerry Brown but smart about not over-campaigning because Newsom fatigue (“I’m so bored with him”) is probably the reason they got enough signatures to begin with. Covid had him in front of the cameras a lot.

  20. 20.

    Roger Moore

    @trollhattan:

    I’m deeply skeptical of the poll.  Change Research is a partisan pollster, and their turnout numbers seem really implausible.  I will be very happy if they’re right, but when one pollster gets results that are wildly at odds with everyone else, it’s usually because there’s something wrong with their methodology.

  23. 23.

    catclub

    @trollhattan: Even better news for Newsom: 92% of all Democrats have either already voted (54%) or say they definitely will (38%)

     

    Too bad people lie optimistically. ‘say they definitely will’  yeah, right.

  27. 27.

    catclub

    @debbie: I just cannot imagine there are enough people in the state to support Elder. He is a whack-a-loon.

     

    But how many is ‘enough’.  I was guessing 20% turnout for the recall election (with any luck that is way wrong). A majority of those vote for recall (11%), Elder gets a winning plurality of those  (37% of 11%) = less than 4% is enough to elect Elder.  Depressingly possible for minority election.

  28. 28.

    gene108

    Ruby Ridge, 1992, and Waco, 1993, are too far in the past to motivate the younger generation. They need a new martyr for their white supremacist terrotist cause and Babbitt is the new martyr.

  29. 29.

    Kay

    @zhena gogolia:

    Jake Sherman
    @JakeSherman
    · 1h
    McCarthy, in this news conference just now, said that there should be no troops in Afghanistan, then i asked him in a follow up if there should be troops — because he said a few days ago there should be — he said we should’ve kept Bagram.

    Most of the critics will end up like this, talking in circles, because most of the criticism didn’t make any sense. It falls apart under any common sense analysis. You don’t have to know anything about Afghanistan to see it. It’s all like this. They’re insisting we can withdraw without actually withdrawing. I’m sure Biden would have chosen that magical option had it existed, but it didn’t and doesn’t.

  31. 31.

    The Moar You Know

    I just cannot imagine there are enough people in the state to support Elder. He is a whack-a-loon.

    @debbie: The problem is, of course, that there might be enough people in the state to carry the recall (it’s not only Republicans who are pissed off about the state shutdown and who want to make someone pay for it).  Then we get Larry Elder as governor with about 4-6% of the electorate voting for him – but a majority of Republican votes.

    That this is without a question unrepresentative to me seems obvious.  It might not strike a court as being such, you just never know with judges.

    I’m one who’s registered as “no party preference”, and in CA, unlike most of the country, the majority of those votes are Dem-leaning.  So I am hoping that we can keep Newsom in office, but I think this one is going to be really tight.

    ETA:  and yes, Larry Elder is a bona fide LUNATIC.

  33. 33.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @trollhattan:  Yes, it’s just damn,,,, “I have a solution to the homeless, but I can’t tell you”.

    Every conservative I know, not the wingnuts, just loathes that Culture War bullshit.

  35. 35.

    catclub

    @gene108: ​
     

    They need a new martyr for their white supremacist terrotist cause and Babbitt is the new martyr.

    So where does the Timothy McVey truck bomb hit next January?

  36. 36.

    matt

    A law enforcement officer who shoots a crazy right wing terrorist is in the wrong because crazy right wing terrorists are above the law.

    Well that’s how the insurgency views it.

  37. 37.

    Cermet

    There is a really great solution to this afghan issue; we allow all thugs who voted for dump to board military transports and leave them (with their previous 2nd amendment right guns at the Kabul airport.) They get to defend the country from those ‘weak’ taliban. This is a win/win/win – we get rid of really worthless dumb shits, the taliban get really fun target practice, and the 2nd amendment gets a big win. These planes are empty going into Kabul, anyway.  Ten thug congressman per plane to lead these loons.

  38. 38.

    Roger Moore

    @trollhattan:

    Perhaps if Newsom survives and the legislature is feeling frisky, they can tackle it. IIUC it’s a pretty tall mountain to climb, changing the constitutional language.

    It doesn’t seem that tricky to me.  I think there are a lot of people fed up with the recalls who will happily vote for any reasonably well written recall reform.  It’s not just Newsom.  I’ve heard of a lot more recalls than I remember in the past.

    The one that gets me is the move to recall George Gascon, the reformist DA LA County elected just last year.  He’s trying to follow through on his campaign promises- to stop asking for the death penalty, stop prosecuting minors as adults, not ask for cash bail in most cases, etc.- in the face of fierce resistance from our asshole sheriff and a bunch of junior prosecutors from his own office.  Within a month of him taking office, there was already a recall campaign.

    It’s just utter bullshit.  We shouldn’t have to re-fight every damn election where the sore losers are well enough funded to start a petition drive.  Recall should be limited to its intended purpose of removing corrupt and incompetent politicians.

  39. 39.

    The Moar You Know

    I should also add to a question added upthread that I am seeing zero desire or thought here in CA about changing the recall process.

  40. 40.

    Ken

    @debbie: I just cannot imagine there are enough people in the state to support Elder.

    All he needs is 50.01% to vote for the recall, then about 5% of those to vote for him, so that he gets a plurality.

    I’m not from California — here in Illinois, when we want to get rid of the governor, we convict him of a crime — but if they want to keep the recall mechanism, can they at least set it up so if the governor’s recalled the lieutenant governor takes over? As happens in every other case where the governor is removed from office.

    BTW, did anyone check into the hypothetical where on election day, if the count is going badly against him, the governor resigns and the lieutenant governor is sworn in? The question was whether that would make the whole recall moot, or whether the winner of the recall would take office.

  41. 41.

    Roger Moore

    @debbie: ​

    I just cannot imagine there are enough people in the state to support Elder. He is a whack-a-loon.

    The problem is that 27% of the votes on question 2 might be enough to put him in office. If they can get 50%+1 to vote for recall, we’ll get whichever whack-a-loon can scrounge up a plurality. And we’re practically guaranteed to get a whack-a-loon, since there simply aren’t any plausible, sane candidates to vote for.

  43. 43.

    mrmoshpotato

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    We need to start correctly referring to Babbit as having been part of a “violent, traitorous, mob of domestic terrorists, Nazis and cop-killers.” 

    “Trump-humping fascist shitstains”

  44. 44.

    karen marie

    @zhena gogolia: This is what blows my mind.  I guess he’d prefer that Biden should emulate Trump and just give – in this case, apparently – ISIS whatever they want.

     

    I mean, what?

  45. 45.

    J R in WV

    @dmsilev: ​
     

    @Kay: Clearly we should have kept Bagram without any troops. Magic forcefield would do the trick nicely.

    I thought we should have kept Bagram open, just for our use as opposed to moving general population… but I’m not making strategic decisions, and it is was in the middle of no where…

  47. 47.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: In the presentation by Eric Swalwell during Dump’s second impeachment, you can hear one of these fascist shitstains yell, “He’s got a gun!  He’s got a gun!” before Babbit was shot.  And he yells it like he’s surprised.  I guess these traitorous assholes didn’t think the United States Capitol building would have any security!

  49. 49.

    Kay

    @dmsilev:

    I’m pro-refugee and pro-immigration. They really don’t have to blow smoke up my ass with “helping the Afghans who helped us”. The working justification for this whole nation-building exercise was the Afghans were helping us because they were helping themselves. If they weren’t helping us to help themselves then it makes even less sense.

    Just tell the truth. Stop manipulating us. The time for that has past. What we can get out of this is a clearer view of how we should go forward and do things differently. At least let us have that.

  50. 50.

    VOR

    @dmsilev:  TFG said he would have kept Bagram because it was close to Iran and China. Um, Bagram is in the east of Afghanistan, north of Kabul. Complete opposite side of the country from Iran. Our allies in the Gulf are far closer. Plus the deal TFG signed gave up Bagram. I have no doubt it’s SOP for TFG to renege on deals, but…

  51. 51.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Roger Moore: I am thinking the recall happened because all the non-crazy conservatives though it would be an end run around the Wingnut dominated GOP primaries and they would get another Governator, some moderate conservative who was shut out by the crazies, and the dimming of the enthusiasm is happening because these same moderate conservatives are discovering it’s nothing but wackalones on the right.

  55. 55.

    jonas

    @debbie: It isn’t so much about Elder having widespread support (he doesn’t, outside batshit MAGAt circles), but whether there would be enough Dem turnout to hold the line.

  56. 56.

    Ken

    @VOR: Looking at a map, there isn’t any place in Afghanistan that’s close to both Iran and China.  But I’m reality-focused.

    Interesting, I hadn’t known that the only reason Afghanistan and China border is the Great Game between Britain and Russia.

  58. 58.

    Steeplejack

    @Kay:

    [McCarthy] said we should’ve kept Bagram.

    I am so sick of the stupidity and hypocrisy. As someone pointed out on Twitter a few days ago—and as I just confirmed with my high-level insider intelligence resources (Google Maps)—Bagram Air Base is in the middle of nowhere 40 miles north of Kabul. So, presumably, in addition to the airlift, you’d have to bus everybody out there from Kabul, with who knows what security issues all along the way.

  60. 60.

    The Moar You Know

    I thought California doesn’t have partisan primaries anymore.

    @Baud: my pet peeve.  We have the “Democratic unilateral surrender primary”, in which Republicans lock out non-Republicans from their primaries, and Dems let anyone vote in ours.  The CA Democratic party is fucking weak sauce for allowing that shit to happen.  Part of the “jungle primary” law is that a party can opt out of it.  The GOP did from day one.  Dems should as well.

  64. 64.

    Ksmiami

    @zhena gogolia: exactly my feelings over the past 6 years. I don’t want to be in the same room as these miscreant plague rats let alone the same country. We are better off without them

  65. 65.

    James E Powell

    Someday, if there’s any justice, they’ll face the mob they fed without protection from people like Lt. Byrd, and that mob will consume them.

    Narrator: But he knows there will never be any justice. There never is.

  66. 66.

    Mike in NC

    During WW2, Audie Murphy mowed down a large number of Nazis with a machine gun, and he was awarded the Medal of Honor for his deed. Next time our neo-Nazis decide to riot and overthrow the government, somebody should do likewise.

  67. 67.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @The Moar You Know: Oh yes on the penition, I never saw one but my friends living on Gold Country were constantly being pestered and have snarl about being Democrats. But what I am thinking is how the recall polled.  From personal experience I know there are lot of small c conservatives in the Bay Area who aren’t happy with the Democrats but just loath the Wingnuts so vote D as (in their minds) the lesser of two evils.

  68. 68.

    Just Chuck

    @The Moar You Know: I agree the playing field is uneven, but it isn’t quite so dire.  One still can’t run in more than one primary, so they’d have to back someone else, one so moderate that they could compete in a Dem primary in California.  The remains of the CA GOP is wackaloon, so I don’t see them doing that.

  69. 69.

    Roger Moore

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I am thinking the recall happened because all the non-crazy conservatives though it would be an end run around the Wingnut dominated GOP primaries

    We don’t have partisan primaries anymore, except for President.  For all state offices, we have a jungle primary followed by the top two facing off in the general election.  If the moderate Republicans have trouble getting their people on the ballot, it’s because they’re outnumbered by the crazies.

    Now it’s possible the less crazy Republicans may have figured the Democrats would wind up backing the less crazy Republican on question 2.  That makes me think there may be some method to the Democrats’ madness in recommending people leave question 2 blank.  It’s not an attempt to challenge the legitimacy of whomever gets selected; it’s a threat against the saner Republicans.  They’re not going to get their guy this way; they’re going to get a nutjob like Larry Elder.  That may well give them second thoughts about saying yes on question 1.

  70. 70.

    gene108

    @raven:

    Fuckers stopped trying to get through that window didn’t they?

    Yup.

    @catclub:

    So where does the Timothy McVey truck bomb hit next January?

    I don’t know. But with this much energy spent martyring her, somebody will think of something.

    @Subsole:

    I can’t find it anymore, but there was a Jan 6 video of an interview with a woman who went into the Capitol who said the police aren’t supposed to be attacking them, the police were meant to go after those people.

  71. 71.

    Kay

    Justin Baragona
    @justinbaragona
    ·3m
    We’re still doing this, I see

    John Bolton on CNN. They’re now cycling thru the anti-withdrawal lobby members again because there aren’t enough of them to fill so many 24 hour blocks without repeats.

  72. 72.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Roger Moore:  That may well give them second thoughts about saying yes on question 1.

    And a serious case of Buyer’s Remorse September 15th.  Self POWN to POWN the Libs, if you will.

  73. 73.

    Steeplejack

    @debbie:

    That’s the problem: I think dissatisfied people can just vote to recall Newsom and not vote for Elder (or anyone else).

  74. 74.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Kay: One thing that surprised me was the NYT on the bombing was surprisingly sober, informative and none of the Parading of the Chicken Hawks like with CNN.  I guess the father from the TV they get the less interested they are in screaming old men.

  75. 75.

    H.E.Wolf

    “But he knows there will never be any justice. There never is.​”

    I encourage anyone who is feeling defeatist – and it might be any of us, at various times – to look for people who are working toward justice, and assist them.

    WaterGirl has given us a handy list of fundraising options on this website! In 2021 alone: Four Directions; Voces de la Frontera, Fair Fight Action (in collaboration with Four Directions).

  76. 76.

    trollhattan

    @Steeplejack:

    IF the recall occurs then the next governor will have been elected with probably less than 20% of the votes cast for his replacement.

    A stupid, stupid system. Which is why Republicans love it.

  77. 77.

    Kay

    Suspending all visits at the nursing homes here. I don’t envy DeWine, having to manage his increasingly unhinged political base as cases rise in Ohio. Not that he deserves sympathy, but people who live outside of red states shoud be aware that the Trump Nutter Army target any Republican who veers even slightly from the script.

    I keep hoping we can somehow turn it to our advantage politically. There has to be a way to turn the division to our advantage. I suppose the easiest way would be to use the GOP incumbents deference to the base against them with the moronic “independents” we need but doesn’t it seem like we could get the base fractured? I don’t know how.

  79. 79.

    Hob

    @The Moar You Know: You are talking about the Presidential primaries, but that’s not the subject here. For Governor and all other state races, it is a jungle primary, period. But people still love to use the phrase “unilateral surrender” whenever they’re pissed off at Democrats for any reason, regardless of whether it’s applicable.

  80. 80.

    dimmsdale

    @Steeplejack:  I’m with you on that. Not necessarily doubting some of them MIGHT have been armed but long guns? First I’m hearing about it. If true it changes everything in MY understanding of the violence; if NOT true it’s a dangerous claim that ought to be instantly retracted IMO; things are heated enough as it is.

  82. 82.

    trollhattan

    @Kay: Looking like schools here are heading for a reckoning.

    Just days into the school year, COVID-19 cases and quarantines caused by infections are on the rise in Sacramento-area districts.

    Hundreds of cases have been reported among students and staff, the vast majority of which have been clustered at high schools and middle schools, where most students are eligible for the COVID-19 vaccine. The number of young children being admitted to local hospitals with COVID is also increasing.

    While health experts have their eye on COVID-19 cases among children, district closures are not planned. State Senate Bill 98, which allowed California schools to pivot to distance learning during the pandemic, sunset on June 30. The goal, education officials say, is to keep children in school.
    https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/education/article253707953.html#storylink=cpy

  83. 83.

    Roger Moore

    @Hob:

    Yes, and it’s not as if the combination of jungle primaries and a non-partisan redistricting commission has hurt the Democrats.  No Republican has won statewide office since they were put in place, and the Democrats are up to about 3/4 of the total seats in the Assembly, Senate, and Congressional delegation.

  84. 84.

    Eunicecycle

    @Kay: today is supposed to be the last Zoom call with my uncle in the nursing home (the one that beat Covid at 93!). They aren’t going to facilitate them any more because visitation is open. I wonder if that will change now. We are back to doing Zoom because he has c-diff now. Poor guy!

  85. 85.

    Nora Lenderbee

    @geg6: ““We’re in America, goddamn it. We don’t want to be forced to do anything. Period.”

    Said by the head of the police union. You know–police, whose job notably includes forcing people to do things.

  86. 86.

    Ken

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Larry Elder: “I have a solution to the homeless, but I can’t tell you”

    “Because the first rule of my dark pact with dread Nyarlathotep to provide him legions of souls is, you don’t talk about my dark pact with dread Nyarlathotep to provide him with legions of souls.”

  87. 87.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    Trying to access Twitter JUST TO READ, I managed to eliminate all of my pre-sets.  So this is a test

     

    AND IT WORKED.  Huzzah!

  88. 88.

    cmorenc

    Had the mob gotten through in numbers before the congresspersons at the end of the hall could be moved to a more secure location, what are the chances the mob would have been knowingly selective in which members to focus their assaults upon?  Sure, many of them likely would have recognized Jim Jordan , for example, but outside a small handful of the very most prominent “freedom caucus” members frequently appearing on RW media, I doubt most of the mob were familiar enough with most of the congressional membership to know who was who.  Also, the crowd’s animus extended to every congressperson who were prepared to vote to ratify the election, which included a substantial portion of R house members.

  90. 90.

    StringOnAStick

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: I’m willing to bet that the secret solution to homelessness that Larry Elder isn’t willing to tell anyone yet is most definitely a Final Solution.  I heard this idea from people we know that I didn’t think we’re that crazy, but on homeless people, they are.  Neither of them voted for tRump but the homeless hate is bigger than many realize.

  92. 92.

    bemused senior

    @Roger Moore: My daughter is an LAPD officer who is quite liberal politically. She tells me about the frustration of arresting someone for say breaking into a car and then booking them knowing they will be out as soon as they are arraigned with no bail. These are often people with a recent prior arrest on a similar charge.

  93. 93.

    geg6

    @bemused senior: 
    I get frustrated on the job pretty much every day. I’m sorry your daughter has similar experiences. But, as I do, she has to learn to suck it up. When not being able to afford bail for a non-violent offense like breaking into a car ends up a years long prison sentence prior to trial, I bet that’s pretty fucking frustrating, too.

  95. 95.

    Roger Moore

    @bemused senior: 
    The problem is that’s the way the system is supposed to work. The goal of bail is to guarantee people show up for trial, and there’s excellent evidence that most people do even without bail. We aren’t supposed to be locking people up while they wait for trial on the principle they might commit another crime if they’re allowed out. The whole bail system has been twisted into this excuse to keep poor people locked up indefinitely.

  98. 98.

    jonas

    @trollhattan:  I don’t even need to read the article to know exactly what the reporter discovers on yet another Central Valley cletus safari: “While farmer Bob acknowledges that the current drought is completely unprecedented in recent history and threatens his whole way of life, he refuses to place the blame on climate change. ‘Climate’s always been a’changin’,’ he says, ‘sometimes it’s just hotter and drier than other times. Whadya gonna do? Plus there’s AOC and the squad who are working with the EPA and the Chinese communists to send more of our water into the ocean so their boats can run faster I read somewhere. That’s the real problem…’

  99. 99.

    Steeplejack

    @Cheryl from Maryland:

    Even though I tweaked Firefox (on Win10) to not allow cookies from Twitter, a few keep sneaking in from somewhere. (Maybe as third-party cookies from another site?) This morning I got the “log-in or sign up” block message and had to nuke a couple of Twitter cookies in my cache. Go figure.

  101. 101.

    mario

    am I the only liberal on God’s green earth that sees Boyd’s claim of saving “countless” lives as ridiculous?

    It’s unlikely he saved as much as one.

  102. 102.

    James E Powell

    @trollhattan:

    I’m in a Los Angeles middle school this year.

    We’ve had three students test positive. I’m surprised it’s that low. The tests being done in schools are turning up positives on people, nearly all children, who have not been tested before. The key is how we respond to the positives.

  103. 103.

    WaterGirl

    @mario: If by “Boyd” you are referring to Lt. Byrd, i think you might indeed be the only one who thinks the officer didn’t save countless lives.

    The mob of insurgents had broken a window and were going through the window and were just feet away from elected officials.

    Damn right I think Lt. Byrd saved countless lives.

  105. 105.

    mario

    @WaterGirl: have you watched the videos? The mob was already dispersing when Babbit got shot, and literally seconds after she was shot a SWAT team arrived.

    Byrd saved no one.

  106. 106.

    bemused senior

    @geg6: usually the issue is car theft. Non-violent doesn’t mean the victim of the theft doesn’t have major life issues as a result of the crime, for which the perpetrator is back on the street stealing another car. We’re not talking about overdue registrations or dark sunscreen on windows of cars. Eg not ferguson MO.

  107. 107.

    trollhattan

    @jonas:

    I’m also totally sympathetic to, “Somebody remind me why I stopped raising row crops and planted almonds instead.”

  109. 109.

    Mallard Filmore

    @mario: 

    have you watched the videos? The mob was already dispersing when Babbit got shot, and literally seconds after she was shot a SWAT team arrived.

    This video does not show what you claim.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWMpTHLJXbw

    I see some uniformed officers, and a guy in a suit, getting squeezed out of their spot at the broken window. Are they the “swat team” you reference? I do not see the mob dispersing. Once Babbit was through the window there would have been a resurgence as the entry point became known.

  111. 111.

    Sis

    So true. That mob was bloodthirsty; they built a gallows, for heaven’s sake! If Babbitt had gotten through that window, the whole crowd would have streamed in in numbers that law enforcement couldn’t have stopped. I hate to imagine what they would have done if they’d gotten access to members of Congress. The officer is a hero, and Babbitt is a person who was doomed by her own terrible choices.

  112. 112.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @bemused senior: Nevertheless, bail is meant to ensure that a defendant shows up for trial.  It isn’t supposed to keep people locked up until trial (even though that is often it’s effect).

  113. 113.

    jimmiraybob

    “…in the must justified shooting in the history of shootings…”

    I keep coming back to zombies.  What would you do if zombies were breaking through?

  114. 114.

    The Moar You Know

     

    am I the only liberal on God’s green earth that sees Boyd’s claim of saving “countless” lives as ridiculous?

    It’s unlikely he saved as much as one.

    @mario:

    brand new poster – check

    sticks up for mob – check

    liberal my ass – check

  115. 115.

    Geminid

    @mario: You may be right. Officer Byrd could not know there was a file of riot equipped police on the staircase a dozen feet from the door Babbitt was trying to force. But I don’t think you are saying that the shooting was unjustified, just that it was not as consequential as people claim.

    I myself wish there had been a riot equipped cop standing on the furniture next to that door, ready to club Babbitt in the face when she stuck her head through the window. But there wasn’t. Officer Byrd had to act with what he had and knew, and he acted in good faith. I don’t think Byrd takes any satisfaction in the outcome, and I hope Byrd believes he did the right thing, because he did.

  116. 116.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    Why did the MEN there make her the ‘tip of the spear’? Because they are chickenshits.

  117. 117.

    Chris Johnson

    @mario: Bollocks.

    If they had broken through, overrun the cops, and begun beating Congress to death with Confederate flags and stolen lecterns, guess what: our Congress isn’t exactly hale and hearty. They’re all old and fragile and not suited to being cornered by an angry mob.

    If we lost Congress and it was at all questionable who controlled the United States, this country would have EXPLODED. Not just in DC, everywhere. Good luck counting the cost of that. And there’s the covid pandemic, which would end up going worse with everyone distracted by literal open terrorist warfare… I guess people would’ve stayed in more, though?

    ‘Countless lives’ is not inappropriate at all. That guy was at the point of a fulcrum. A few people staved off fascist overthrow, and kept things clearly within the strictures of rule of law. It’s possible that had no insurrectionists died, we’d have seen more attempts by now.

  118. 118.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: ​
     

    I think it was Chris Hayes who devoted a segment of his show to replaying (some of?) the Byrd interview. He should have introduced it with at least a portion of Babbitt’s internet-famous selfie-video shrieking about conspiracy theories. This is too dangerous a situation to worry about being generous.

    There’s also when she stalked her husband’s ex-girlfriend and repeatedly rammed the ex’s car with her own car.

    I’m pretty familiar with where that happened – you could practically throw a Frisbee from that intersection into the parking lot of the building where my kid’s orthodontist has his office. I feel lucky to have never run into her when she lived here in Calvert County.

  119. 119.

    No One You Know

    @gene108:  Given the number of white nationalists, racists, or closeted Proud Boys in the police, I’m not surprised she thought the police would shoot “those people.” I assume she meant Democratic legislators.

  123. 123.

    karen marie

    @bemused senior: How liberal can she be if she thinks the Constitution sucks?  She’s not the judge and jury. Maybe she’d like people she arrests for property crimes imprisoned for life? That’s the playing out of what you stated her position is. Doesn’t sound particularly liberal to me.

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