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You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / President Biden Addresses the Nation (LIVE) at 2:45 pm Eastern

President Biden Addresses the Nation (LIVE) at 2:45 pm Eastern

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This post is in: 

What a day we had yesterday.  We are out of Afghanistan.  Finally.  With very little loss of life.  I’m fairly convinced that this would not have been possible under any other president.

The President is scheduled to speak to the nation today at 2:45 Eastern time.

Statement from President Joe Biden on August 30, 2021:

I want to thank our commanders and the men and women serving under them for their execution of the dangerous retrograde from Afghanistan as scheduled – in the early morning hours of August 31, Kabul time – with no further loss of American lives. The past 17 days have seen our troops execute the largest airlift in US history, evacuating over 120,000 US citizens, citizens of our allies, and Afghan allies of the United States. They have done it with unmatched courage, professionalism, and resolve. Now, our 20-year military presence in Afghanistan has ended.

Tomorrow afternoon, I will address the American people on my decision not to extend our presence in Afghanistan beyond August 31. For now, I will report that it was the unanimous recommendation of the Joint Chiefs and of all of our commanders on the ground to end our airlift mission as planned. Their view was that ending our military mission was the best way to protect the lives of our troops, and secure the prospects of civilian departures for those who want to leave Afghanistan in the weeks and months ahead.

I have asked the Secretary of State to lead the continued coordination with our international partners to ensure safe passage for any Americans, Afghan partners, and foreign nationals who want to leave Afghanistan. This will include work to build on the UN Security Council Resolution passed this afternoon that sent the clear message of what the international community expects the Taliban to deliver on moving forward, notably freedom of travel. The Taliban has made commitments on safe passage and the world will hold them to their commitments. It will include ongoing diplomacy in Afghanistan and coordination with partners in the region to reopen the airport allowing for continued departure for those who want to leave and delivery of humanitarian assistance to the people of Afghanistan.

For now, I urge all Americans to join me in grateful prayer tonight for three things. First, for our troops and diplomats who carried out this mission of mercy in Kabul and at tremendous risk with such unparalleled results: an airlift that evacuated tens of thousands more people than any imagined possible. Second, to the network of volunteers and veterans who helped identify those needing evacuation, guide them to the airport, and provide support along the way. And third, to everyone who is now – and who will – welcome our Afghan allies to their new homes around the world, and in the United States.

Finally, I want to end with a moment of gratitude for the sacrifice of the 13 service members in Afghanistan who gave their lives last week to save tens of thousands: Marine Corps Staff Sgt. Darin T. Hoover, Marine Corps Sgt. Johanny Rosariopichardo, Marine Corps Sgt. Nicole L. Gee, Marine Corps Cpl. Hunter Lopez, Marine Corps Cpl. Daegan W. Page, Marine Corps Cpl. Humberto A. Sanchez, Marine Corps Lance Cpl. David L. Espinoza, Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Jared M. Schmitz, Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Rylee J. McCollum, Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Dylan R. Merola, Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Kareem M. Nikoui, Navy Hospitalman Maxton W. Soviak and Army Staff Sgt. Ryan C. Knauss.

Reader Interactions

212Comments

  3. 3.

    The Dangerman

    I’m in a Hospital waiting room with TV set to news (local, not Fox; if it were Fox, I’d be gone); I don’t see any red hats, and minimal red clothing for that matter. Fingers crossed since MAGA’s have lost the ability to mute their feelings.

  6. 6.

    matt the somewhat reasonable

    I went to the White House website and filled out a message in support of leaving Afghanistan and Biden.

  13. 13.

    The Dangerman

    @germy: Yup. Getting into Hospital this time was significantly more difficult today then recently (it’s been fairly chill for a couple months; not today). It feels like people got the message.

  14. 14.

    waratah

    I thought the CIA was playing a large role in the withdrawal, so why is Jeremy Bash and Leon Panetta  complaining?

  15. 15.

    The Dangerman

    I’m not prepped enough. I’m likely getting booted to tomorrow.

    Oops. Sorry. Forgot which window I was in. Delete?

  19. 19.

    CCL

    Grrrr… framing… headline on recent WAPO article:

    An Afghan politician spent her life working for women’s rights. She barely made it out of the country.

    Would be nice to emphasize that she GOT OUT OF THE COUNTRY (safely).

  21. 21.

    oldster

    @matt the somewhat reasonable: 

    Good idea. I just did the same thing. I told Joe that I’m proud of him, and proud of what he did.

    And I want to see democrats up and down the ranks — from senators to dog-catchers — celebrate the ending of the war, not apologize for it.

  22. 22.

    sab

    @waratah: They work indirectly for military imdustrial complex, so their livlihoods depend on towingtoeing the line

    ETA “towing” or “toeing”? Toeing.

  25. 25.

    NotMax

    @sab

    While far less egregious, if the window is still open might also want to correct to to read livelihoods.

  29. 29.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @CCL: Hey, they got paper to sell and people like pointless, overblown drama.

    Hopefully the danger the woman was fleeing doesn’t end up a death squad from the Washington Post there to make sure the story had the required narrative of “plucky woman flees armed thugs! “.

  30. 30.

    germy

    If you’re curious why NBC’s Richard Engel is so upset about the US withdrawing from Afghanistan, he talks honestly in his book War Journal about how he knew the Iraq War was going to be great for the careers of people like him https://t.co/0KXEOCNuKL pic.twitter.com/yUGCVQwFxu

    — Jon Schwarz (@schwarz) August 30, 2021

    These people are careerist ghouls. War and disaster fulfills their need to feel like they’re reporting on something important.

    — Brad Simpson (@bradleyrsimpson) August 30, 2021

    And they have no trouble impugning the integrity of the man we elected to keep our own democracy from failing.

    — mmrhd (@mmrhd42) August 31, 2021

  31. 31.

    James E Powell

    Their view was that ending our military mission was the best way to protect the lives of our troops, and secure the prospects of civilian departures for those who want to leave Afghanistan in the weeks and months ahead.

    I don’t know why this is not obvious to everyone.

  32. 32.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    It seems like the entire media and foreign policy establishment really wanted us to stay in Afghanistan forever. It feels like they are already shifting from ‘chaos!’ and ‘why did it go soooo badly’ to ‘why did we leeeeeeaaave!’.  I honestly thought after 20 years and the complete collapse of their pathetic government that they would not want us to be there indefinitely, but apparently not. I really don’t get it.

  36. 36.

    germy

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    The war gave folks like Richard Engel the opportunity to cosplay as Edward R. Murrow and Walter Cronkite.

    I mean, he’s not going to cover the Nabisco strike, or the pipeline protests of Native Americans.  His employers would never permit it.

  44. 44.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Baud:

    Can’t watch. Who are we invading next? Gotta get CNN back in our corner. 

    CNN.  It’ll be real easy for them to have wall-to-wall coverage.

  45. 45.

    germy

    My guess is that there will be more US coverage of Afghanistan over the next year than there was in the previous ten years combined. "The Hideous Cost of Joe Biden's Abandonment of Afghan Democracy," etc.

    — Jon Schwarz (@schwarz) August 31, 2021

  49. 49.

    Ken

    I think they should announce we’re invading the South Sandwich Islands, or Devon Island, or some such place. Then after the war correspondents all head there, announce a delay. String it out to see how long they’re willing to stay.

  51. 51.

    James E Powell

    @Baud:

    Can’t watch. Who are we invading next? Gotta get CNN back in our corner.

    They have never been in our corner. They were anti-Trump for a while, but we can’t even get them to be completely anti-pandemic.

  52. 52.

    oldster

    Damned strong speech.

    The statistic about veteran suicides was meant to be a gut-punch, and it was a gut-punch.

    “There is no low-grade, low-cost, low-risk, war.” Take that, you bloodthirsty ghouls.

  53. 53.

    CaseyL

    Wow.  Joe is on fire.  I have rarely heard him that… heated.

    Answered back all the carping, ran through all the why-didn’t-we, and summed with a stunning run down of the costs of that useless, useless war.

  54. 54.

    Another Scott

    Good speech, as always.

    I am glad he caught himself before talking about Beau (other than a brief mention) again.  Beau obviously is always with him and is a heavy burden.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  57. 57.

    stinger

    WaterGirl, thank you so much for posting this. And thank you, President Biden, for having the wisdom and strength of conviction to end that pointless war.

  58. 58.

    RSA

    We are out of Afghanistan.  Finally.  With very little loss of life.

    2021 had the third-lowest number of U.S. fatalities in Afghanistan going back to 2002 (annual count). I’m reading a lot of press about this being a “disaster” that somehow doesn’t give such comparisons.

  59. 59.

    piratedan

    @Roger Moore: it is a hard question to ask which arrest would have more meaning to the potential end of American Fascism, Donald Trump or Rupert Murdoch.

  60. 60.

    Roger Moore

    @Ken:

    I think they should announce we’re invading the South Sandwich Islands, or Devon Island, or some such place. Then after the war correspondents all head there, announce a delay. String it out to see how long they’re willing to stay.

    It’s a fun idea, but today’s war correspondents all want to embed with US forces rather than getting anywhere on their own.  Of course the military loves it when they do, because it means they go only where the military lets them go and see only what the military lets them see.  Is it any wonder we get such biased reporting on the military?

  64. 64.

    Another Scott

    NPR ATE Franco Ordonez (sp?) – “He was really defensive…”

    [click]

    Grrr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  65. 65.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud:

    I take it Joe didn’t apologize.

    I know that was facetious, but fuck no.  There was nothing to apologize for, and he made that abundantly clear.

  69. 69.

    Omnes Omnibus

    The number of people on Twitter who think Biden is announcing a policy of isolationism is astounding.

  70. 70.

    piratedan

    @SiubhanDuinne: you kind of get the impression that Joe REALLY doesn’t give a fuck about what the press says about him as long as he has the support of the American people.

  71. 71.

    taumaturgo

    I congratulate the President for declaring the war is over, but, and this is a big but, simultaneously he when on to say that we are not done with Isis K. Let’s not forget Obama, as well as Trump, declared the war was over, then it wasn’t. Biden said no more large troop deployments, only smaller ones along with continued drone and bombing campaigns. Is the war truly over or is this a new, new chapter? Time will tell.

  75. 75.

    Kathleen

    @germy: Ripping talking points off the fax machine as if they were teletypes received while the Germans pounded London in 1940.

  78. 78.

    raven

    At the beginning of the conflict, British and East India Company forces had defeated the forces of Afghan Emir Dost Mohammad Barakzai and in 1839 occupied Kabul, restoring the former ruler, Shah Shujah Durrani, as emir. However a deteriorating situation made their position more and more precarious, until an uprising in Kabul forced major Elphinstone to withdraw.[4] To this end he negotiated an agreement with Wazir Akbar Khan, one of the sons of Dost Mohammad Barakzai, by which his army was to fall back to the British garrison at Jalalabad, more than 90 miles (140 km) away. The Afghans launched numerous attacks against the column as it made slow progress through the winter snows of the Hindu Kush. In total the British army lost 4,500 troops, along with about 12,000 civilians: the latter comprising both the families of Indian and British soldiers, plus workmen, servants and other Indian camp-followers. The final stand was made just outside a village called Gandamak on 13 January.[5]

    Out of more than 16,000 people from the column commanded by Elphinstone, only one European (Assistant Surgeon William Brydon) and a few Indian sepoys reached Jalalabad. Over one hundred British prisoners and civilian hostages were later released.[6][7] Around 2,000 of the Indians, many of whom were maimed by frostbite, survived and returned to Kabul to exist by begging or to be sold into slavery. Some at least returned to India after another British invasion of Kabul several months later, but others remained behind in Afghanistan.[8]

  79. 79.

    Baud

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Man, I feel like the Brits are going more insane over this than even our media. I don’t understand what exactly their interest is.  We went in because al Qaeda was there after 9/11.  Why is UK so emotionally invested?

  80. 80.

    Chetan Murthy

    Watched the whole thing.  Boy, he brought the fire and the truth.  And when he was finished and walking away, he turned back, and retrieved his mask.

  82. 82.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Baud: I think a combo of Brexit and Afghanistan are reducing their position in the world.   They aren’t in Europe anymore and their role as our steady number 2 in military involvements is gone.  Self-image issues.

  85. 85.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Disappointed with this speech. He didn’t wear a tan suit.

    Also, not once did he mention the main issue that concerns democracies around the world, namely the crisis facing OnlyFans subscribers.

  86. 86.

    VeniceRiley

    @Baud: Perhaps because they failed there on three separate occasions? Maybe because they thought that with US, the 4th time would surely succeed?

    Maybe because they drew this fictional country lines in the first place and cannot admit what a disaster it has been almost everywhere?

  90. 90.

    Baud

    With respect to our media, I think one thing that has increased their ire is that they believe they are supposed to have influence over Democratic presidents if they choose to exercise it, and Biden showed them the hand.

  91. 91.

    Baud

    Thank God for Obama actually getting Osama.  Can you imagine how difficult this would be if Osama were still around.

  92. 92.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @zhena gogolia: No, of course not.  But this is second blow to their national pride, and people are lashing out emotionally.  The references to Suez are key.  Eisenhower’s refusal to back the British and French in retaking the canal was a big blow to them.  Bringing it up 70 years later as though withdrawing from Afghanistan was further American perfidy is, well, evidence of a long held grudge.  The fact that we were right both times doesn’t help.

  93. 93.

    Roger Moore

    @Baud:

    I think the UK is emotionally invested because they want to feel like they’re still a great power.  The “special relationship” with the US has helped them pretend; we get their military help in exchange for letting them feel like they’re still a globe-spanning empire.  When we ignore them- even worse, when we suggest we aren’t likely to engage in more military adventurism anytime soon- it denies them that illusion.

    The need to feel like a great power was also behind Brexit.  If they stayed in the EU, they were just one more member country no different than Slovakia or some place like that.  If they dropped out, they could do things on their own like a great power should.

  95. 95.

    cain

    @Baud: 

    Can’t watch. Who are we invading next? Gotta get CNN back in our corner.

    Greenland – those assholes have it coming!

  96. 96.

    Hoodie

    @Baud: Because it’s a mediocre country that was once a great empire but now sadly relies on its “special relationship” with the US to punch above its weight, especially now that it’s (stupidly) not one of the three main players in the EU.  But of course, the French and the Germans have always had their number and are not as easily impressed by a British accent and elbow patches.  Hence, I don’t think they minded them leaving.

  104. 104.

    trollhattan

    @Baud:

    They are hammer-and-tongs going after America for “giving up” or “giving in to the Taliban” depending on how many minutes past the top of the hour, and are now dragging in our retired generals for opinionating, a few of which are not useful to their narrative (Clapper, for instance, was very good).

    The co-narrative is how this heralds the American descent from World’s Greatest Superpower to make way for China (not pronounced Chi-nah). I expect a half-hour BBC exclusive with Maggie Thatcher’s corpse within a day.

  106. 106.

    James E Powell

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The number of people on Twitter who think Biden is announcing a policy of isolationism is astounding.

    I always wonder if they are deliberately distorting or just not very knowledgeable about foreign policy. And it reminds me of back in the day when Time & Newsweek were really important and they would have a cover story “THE NEW [whatever]” and nothing would be new at all.

  107. 107.

    cain

    @Hoodie: ​

    @Baud: Because it’s a mediocre country that was once a great empire but now sadly relies on its “special relationship” with the US to punch above its weight, especially now that it’s (stupidly) not one of the three main players in the EU. But of course, the French and the Germans have always had their number and are not as easily impressed by a British accent and elbow patches. Hence, I don’t think they minded them leaving.

    I think it wasn’t such a ‘great’ anything. The Brits have fucked up this world – every hotspot in this globe can probably traced back to some bullshit that the Brits did during their colonial period. Their entire policy of ruling by division is why we can’t have nice things.

  109. 109.

    trollhattan

    @Baud:

    i heard Osama’s “head of security” has been welcomed back to Afghanistan with great applause, to which I can only say “You had ONE job.”

  110. 110.

    zhena gogolia

    @cain:

    I wonder where SC is — she would have a pungent contribution to this discussion of British sensibilities.

  111. 111.

    cain

    @trollhattan: ​
     
    A lot of ex-military and war journalists are going to be making a lot of money pontificating and moaning about this.

    We will all do everyone a favor by just watching some cartoons. Same shit, but funnier.

  112. 112.

    trollhattan

    @debbie:

    If that’s true (and I have my doubts) it’s because we didn’t trust the Tory gits to keep their Tory traps shut. Or maybe there are Kremlin moles we know about.

  113. 113.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @debbie:  I am calling BS.  The fact that they didn’t believe Biden doesn’t mean they weren’t told.  FWIW there troops did a very good job as a part of the withdrawal.  That had to have been coordinated.

  114. 114.

    cain

    @zhena gogolia: ​
     

    I’m sure she will weigh in eventually if she sees it. But I know she and I agree that British perfidy is why India/Pakistan/Afghanistan/Bangladesh is what it is. You can probably even add China too.

  116. 116.

    oldster

    Fucking Brits. They can fuck right off.

    Their tantrum may jeopardize Biden’s reelection chances in the crucial Waukeshire county, but I think he can live with that.

  117. 117.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Have to say Brits I know are thinking about this weekend’s Arsenal vs Chelsea match and the furious Premiere League trades.​

  119. 119.

    debbie

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I find it hard to believe the Biden administration wouldn’t have given proper notification, too. Maybe it’s easier for them to pin blame on Biden than to admit they too misjudged the Afghani army.

  120. 120.

    oldster

    @trollhattan:

    Yeah, and Osama’s “head of security” has been hanging out in Pakistan for lo these many years.

    Does anybody think we were going to remake Afghanistan, when Pakistan is sitting right there giving limitless aid and comfort to our enemies, while gulping down our foreign aid?

    Biden saw through that bullshit.

  121. 121.

    NotMax

    @cain

    The Belgians, Dutch, Italians, Portuguese, Spaniards and more especially the French were no slouches in that department.

    Heck, even Latvia (Latvia!) at one point horned in on the act.

  122. 122.

    Yarrow

    @Omnes Omnibus:

     I think a combo of Brexit and Afghanistan are reducing their position in the world.   They aren’t in Europe anymore and their role as our steady number 2 in military involvements is gone.  Self-image issues.

    Agree with this. The current UK leadership keeps talking up “Global Britain” but they chose to leave Europe and don’t have a lot of other great alliances. They need the “special relationship” with the US but with the war in Afghanistan ending and Biden clearly being underwhelmed by Johnson and his cronies, they’re somewhat alone.

    Also, Brexit is staring to suck hard for them. Shelves in supermarkets are empty, they have to wait in long immigration lines to get into Europe now, and all sorts of other things aren’t going well. Latest is a shortage of glass vials for blood tests. Only essential blood tests will be run until mid/late September. What’s happening in Afghanistan means they don’t have to talk about all that tedious Brexit stuff, so that’s part of it.

  124. 124.

    WhatsMyNym

    So bashing the UK makes you all feel better after screwing around in Afghanistan for 20 years, screwing up Iran, making a mess of Iraq and Syria, etc…

  126. 126.

    catclub

    @cain: Talk about punching above your weight?  Iceland has population about 1/10th of mississippi,  but is a country.

  127. 127.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Omnes Omnibus: ​
     

    The number of people on Twitter who think Biden is announcing a policy of isolationism is astounding.

    Wow. The term ‘excluded middle’ was practically invented for those people. Apparently they can’t see any possibilities in between maintaining an empire extending all the way to Afghanistan, and retreating to within our borders.

  129. 129.

    Jeffro

    @Ken:I think they should announce we’re invading the South Sandwich Islands, or Devon Island, or some such place. Then after the war correspondents all head there, announce a delay. String it out to see how long they’re willing to stay.

    there’s always the Falklands, or Grenada…wait, never mind, it might invite comparisons…

  131. 131.

    hueyplong

    @WhatsMyNym: That’s right. The US’s ongoing cock-ups do not elevate the opinions of Baja Scotland, rightly disregarded in the wake of Brexit

  133. 133.

    WaterGirl

    It’s hard not to do the math when you hear that 18 vets commit suicide every single day, day in and day out, and so many just shrug about that, and 13 are killed in the attack today.

    That doesn’t make the 13 deaths and 20 wounded less tragic, but damn, it does show what we care about as a country, and I’m pretty sure it’s not the troops.

  135. 135.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

    We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

  138. 138.

    Betty Cracker

    As an American, I don’t feel I have any standing to throw rocks at the UK for bulldozing nations in a quest for imperial glory and ruinously dicking around in other countries’ affairs. I mean, fuck BoJo, but I’m less than confident the Brits have outstripped us in the export of self-congratulatory jingoistic pinheads. Y’all’s mileage may vary.

  139. 139.

    pluky

    @taumaturgo: ISIS-K is more the Taliban’s problem than ours. They HATE each other. Adam Silverman had a great post up about this not too long ago.

  143. 143.

    Brachiator

    @piratedan:

    you kind of get the impression that Joe REALLY doesn’t give a fuck about what the press says about him as long as he has the support of the American people.

    Great point.

    Biden doesn’t fawn over the media, and they can’t stand this.

    Trump hated the media, but they preferred this because at least they got some attention.

  144. 144.

    Roger Moore

    @cain: ​
     

    I think it wasn’t such a ‘great’ anything.

    In this context, great refers to size, not to quality. The UK was certainly a big global power, even if they did awful things.

  145. 145.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Alexander the Great
    Genghis Khan
    Queen Victoria
    The Red Army
    Bush the Lessor

    Who coulda known

    I don’t even think Nick Saban can beat them.

    Afghanistan has never lost as a home underdog. Always take Afghanistan and the points.

  148. 148.

    catclub

    @lowtechcyclist: ​
      They also were not listening when Biden said that BECAUSE we will not be bogged down in Afghanistan we will be more able to engage elsewhere.

  149. 149.

    Roger Moore

    @trollhattan: ​
     

    i heard Osama’s “head of security” has been welcomed back to Afghanistan with great applause, to which I can only say “You had ONE job.”

    That’s totally unfair. Look at how many of al Quaeda’s seconds in command were killed off before we finally managed to find him! Osama did an impressive job of staying involved while still managing to hide from one of the most powerful intelligence-gathering organizations in the world. That he didn’t manage to stay hidden forever, and that his security people couldn’t fight off the SEALs when they showed up, shouldn’t be a serious knock against his head of security.

  151. 151.

    Old Man Shadow

    The Blob won’t be happy until it’s 2221 and the last living American soldier is manning a fort by himself patrolling for the last Afghan fighter still living in the Climate Change blasted wasteland and neither of them know why they are enemies or what they’re fighting over since the land is long since dead and worthless.

  152. 152.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @JPL: What’s funny is that s_c will probably show up and excoriate me for being an Anglophile.  I mean, I enjoyed Victoria on Masterpiece.

  153. 153.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    @Roger Moore: ​
      He stayed hidden cuz Bush didn’t want to find him. As long as bin Laden was loose Bush could scare the country with color coded alerts to distract them from his failures and to acquiesce to his invasion dreams.

    The first thing Barack Obama did upon becoming president was issue a presidential order to the CIA making bin Laden’s capture their number one objective.

    That it took nearly 8 years to devote these resources and focus tells you everything about Bush et al.’s lack of seriousness.

  154. 154.

    Ken

    @NotMax: On a per capita basis, Iceland can boast the most Nobel Prize winners.

    There are 54 countries with a lower population, so any of those could easily take it. If the Pope ever wins a Peace Prize, it would be very difficult for any other country to pull ahead.

  156. 156.

    Butter Emails!

    @Betty Cracker:

    Most of the crap the US has gotten involved with since the end of WW2 are geopolitical landmines left behind by France and the UK following their colonial eras.

  158. 158.

    stinger

    @Old Man Shadow:

    the last living American soldier is manning a fort by himself patrolling for the last Afghan fighter still living in the Climate Change blasted wasteland

    And then, mysteriously, “Taps” are blown and the fort catches fire…. I’ve seen this movie!

  160. 160.

    Baud

    @Ken:

    Oh, man.  What I wouldn’t give for Biden to get the Peace Prize for ending the war.

    The apoplexy in certain quarters would be off the charts.

  162. 162.

    cain

    @NotMax:

    For sure, but most of those were way back in the 16th century – the Brits have been at it for quite awhile ratfucking a large number of nations. But yeah, especially the French and Spaniards.

  164. 164.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Betty Cracker: This isn’t a who’s worst on global scale Olympics.  It’s people trying to analyze the almost visceral reaction of many Brit to the withdrawal.

  165. 165.

    catclub

    @Baud:

     

    What I wouldn’t give for Biden to get the Peace Prize for ending the war.

    The apoplexy in certain quarters would be off the charts.

    Does he get it jointly with the Taliban? pakistan’s ISI?

  166. 166.

    Brachiator

    @Ken:

    @NotMax: On a per capita basis, Iceland can boast the most Nobel Prize winners.

    If you look at family, the Curies may be unbeatable.

    The Curie family has received the most prizes, with four prizes awarded to five individual laureates. Marie Curie received the prizes in Physics (in 1903) and Chemistry (in 1911). Her husband, Pierre Curie, shared the 1903 Physics prize with her.

    Their daughter, Irène Joliot-Curie, received the Chemistry Prize in 1935 together with her husband Frédéric Joliot-Curie.

    In addition, the husband of Marie Curie’s second daughter, Henry Labouisse, was the director of UNICEF when he accepted the Nobel Peace Prize in 1965 on that organisation’s behalf.

  167. 167.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Matt McIrvin:

    “Kissingerian callousness”? Good God! We have serious infrastructure issues in the US, lack of access to health care, poverty, etc. A lot of people here are suffering, too. We can’t fix Afghanistan, but we can address our own problems. But I feel like this howling press really does not care. Maybe I would feel different if there was any substantial resistence to Taliban rule, but there isn’t.

  168. 168.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Matt McIrvin: ​
     

    I just saw getting out of Afghanistan described as “Kissingerian callousness”.

    Good Lord. I’m having a hard time getting a count of how many Vietnamese died as a result of the war after Nixon and Kissinger got Thieu to scotch the peace deal in 1968, but it was a shitload.

    There’s no way to have a war without a lot of people getting killed. Maybe the Taliban will kill a lot of Afghans now that they’re in control, but if we’d stayed and fought, it wouldn’t have been ‘maybe.’ A lot of people would have been killed, period, and mostly by us.

  169. 169.

    Betty Cracker

    @Butter Emails!: People in Central and South America might have a quibble with that summary of America’s post-WWII activities, but the point is, the puffery about being a beacon of democracy and champion for human rights is mostly bullshit. A century and change after a founding rooted in genocide and slavery, we consciously chose to go into the empire business.

    Whatever the sins of predecessor empires, our country has strutted around the globe like an international gangster cartel in the post-WWII era, destroying lives, propping up odious dictators and pillaging other nations’ wealth. The high standard of living some of us enjoy is directly related to all that horror. Over the scope of history, we’re way worse than many and better than some. Boris Johnson sucks, but a year ago, we were represented by Donald Fucking Trump.

  170. 170.

    Roger Moore

    @Butter Emails!:

    Most of the crap the US has gotten involved with since the end of WW2 are geopolitical landmines left behind by France and the UK following their colonial eras.

    The biggest crap, maybe, but I’m not sure I’d say it’s most of the crap.  There was a ton of stuff in the Americas where we were the ones who had planted the landmines.  You can’t blame the UK and France for El Salvador, Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela, Chile, etc.  Yeah, we mostly avoided sending in the Marines in those cases, but the CIA had pretty free rein.  Again, not the biggest crap, but quite possibly the most crap.

  172. 172.

    Betty

    @sab: This may be too late, but I spent years believing it was tow, to find out it is toe, to find out later still that so many people use tow that it is now considered acceptable.

  175. 175.

    cain

    @Roger Moore: We pretty much created the conditions for the mass number of migrations coming here.

    Never mind that we are still the problem when it comes to guns in Mexico and thus why Mexico has a hard time dealing with their crime thanks to that.

  177. 177.

    lowtechcyclist

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: ​

    Just a sideshow.

    Yeah, gotta add a million or two Cambodians to the Vietnam carnage that Nixon and Kissinger are responsible for.

    I don’t care that Kissinger’s 98 years old. I’d still like to see him spend his few remaining years in a prison cell for war crimes.

  178. 178.

    Roger Moore

    @Brachiator: ​
     

    If you look at family, the Curies may be unbeatable.

    Hilary Bok (better known as Hilzoy) comes from a family that’s no slouch in that department. Her grandmother and grandfather won separate Nobel prizes, in Peace and Economics, respectively. I think I’ve waited on a table with at least three Nobel prizes (Marcus, Zewail, Grubbs), though they hadn’t all won them yet.

  179. 179.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    @hueyplong: ​
      Have you ever seen “The Challenge” with Darren McGavin. An incredible update of “Hell in the Pacific”.

    The Challenge is actually a tightly-wound lesson about the stupidity and futility of warfare.

  181. 181.

    Citizen Alan

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:

    The moment I gave up on the US media was after one of the 2004 debates. At one point, Kerry pointed out, correctly, that Bush had said–in a taped interview–that he didn’t really care much about finding Bin Laden. And Bush fucking denied that he said it! And instead of pointing out this transparent lie, the media focused like lasers on Kerry mentioning in passing that Dick Cheney had a gay daughter, even though Mary Cheney had been out for over a decade at that point. Rage!

  182. 182.

    Jeffro

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:As long as bin Laden was loose Bush could scare the country with color coded alerts to distract them from his failures and to acquiesce to his invasion dreams.

    How ‘W’ avoided being dragged out of the WH by a torch-bearing mob when he said “I don’t think about [OBL] much, anymore” during his second term, I’ll never know

    ETA: great minds and all that with Citizen Alan just a minute ahead of me  =)

  184. 184.

    Robert Sneddon

    @Ken: ​
      Most Americans seem to be ignorant that GW Bush’s Great Afghanistan Adventure was a NATO effort and right up till a few days ago there were troops from several different NATO countries on the ground in Afghanistan (from memory, about 1500-2000).

    There are a bunch of talking heads pontificating about this in the press but it’s August, usually a quiet time for the Nooz so they have to ramp up the drama to fill the column inches. As someone further up the comments said Brits are more focussed over Ronaldo returning to Man U. They are generally indifferent that the last British troops left Afghanistan a few days ago.

  185. 185.

    Brachiator

    @Roger Moore:

    The biggest crap, maybe, but I’m not sure I’d say it’s most of the crap.  There was a ton of stuff in the Americas where we were the ones who had planted the landmines.  You can’t blame the UK and France for El Salvador, Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela, Chile, etc.  Yeah, we mostly avoided sending in the Marines in those cases, but the CIA had pretty free rein.  Again, not the biggest crap, but quite possibly the most crap.

    Not even. Spain, Britain and France created fuckups in the Americas even after the birth of the United States, and after the application of the Monroe Doctrine.

    But there is not much point in trying to decide which nation is most perfidious.

    Also, why single out the CIA, when our military interventions in the region have been just as bad?

  186. 186.

    Tony Jay

    The vast majority of British people couldn’t give a single, solitary shit about Afghanistan. Never did, never will. The people making a big fuss about it are the Establishment Media and the uniformed and non-uniformed lobbyists for War Incorporated who went balls-deep on the initial Blairite Crusade because of the eyeball-grabbing Boom TV and the sexy and oh-so profitable narratives they were able to spin out of it. They love that shit for a whole smorgasbord of reasons, ranging from post-Imperial “Still got a dick to swing” jaunts with the Boys and Girls in uniform to self-reverential human interest pieces about how ‘we’ gave cute, dusky people in backwards villages a chance to engage in things we ascribe value to, so aren’t ‘we’ wonderful people ( boo-sucks to you, pacifistic leftie scum) and all of the death and destruction and hideous waste in lives and treasure are therefore totally worth it and shouldn’t be questioned.

    Fast forward 20 years and they can’t help but recoil from Biden’s overt and clear-eyed declaration that ‘The Liberation of Afghanistan’ had long ago degenerated into a joyless ejaculation of painful air-shots that various American Administrations had continued pumping out (mostly/partly) because they feared the political cost of admitting that America was only still pounding away in that particular dusty valley because America can’t ever admit that it’s withdrawing from an unsatisfied and uninterested conquest. That’s not the narrative they want to promulgate, and it leaves them looking like prize pillocks for not telling the truth about the dismal failure of the Great Global Ballkicking Carnival they helped launch with such patriotic fanfare.

    So they’re bitching about it. Of course they are. There’s an entire industry of entitled, self-reverential fantasists out there who want to pretend they know what they’re talking about so people will still give them money and act like they’re important. But let’s not pretend this is something to do with ‘national image’ or bullshit like that. It’s about Media narratives and pandering to the interests of the Very Important People, same as it ever was.

    And Tony Blair can fuck right off, always and forever, until he’s a tiny dot disfiguring someone else’s horizon, then he can fuck off some more. The man is vile, always was, and the people who still huff his farts are one of the major reasons the UK has a creature like Johnson in Number 10.

  188. 188.

    trollhattan

    @Roger Moore:

    He’s still 1. permanently off the Annual Bonus qualified list and 2. doomed to never receive Jihadist of the Year(TM). They also clawed back his pension.

  189. 189.

    Roger Moore

    @Brachiator:

    The discussion here was specifically about the post-WWII period.  We were much more reluctant to actually invade other countries in the Americas during that time, preferring instead to use assassination and funding revolutionary groups.  The previous habit of sending in the Marines whenever we didn’t like what the government in one of those countries did is what I was referring to when I mentioned us stepping on our own landmines.  And yes, the original colonial powers deserve some blame for the problems in the Americas.  So do the people living in those countries, who haven’t done the greatest job of things when we weren’t invading them.

  191. 191.

    J R in WV

    @Baud: ​

    Man, I feel like the Brits are going more insane over this than even our media. I don’t understand what exactly their interest is.

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The Brits have been fighting in the mountains of Afghanistan, in the Hindu Kush, since the mid-1800s. They have had their ass chopped off repeatedly.

    See raven’s comment for a tiny bit of that history — remember Kipling who wrote:

    “…When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
    An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier.
    Go, go, go like a soldier,
    Go, go, go like a soldier,
    Go, go, go like a soldier,
    So-oldier of the Queen!!”
    that’s how the Brits feel about the Afghans.

  194. 194.

    Brachiator

    @Tony Jay:

    The vast majority of British people couldn’t give a single, solitary shit about Afghanistan. Never did, never will.

    I hear what you are saying and greatly enjoyed your spot on rant. But I also get the feeling of genuine frustration and anger from Brits who served in Afghanistan, and from families who lost loved ones.

    Also, there seemed to be a break in the BREXIT spell that Johnson had cast over the British people, with respect to pushback against people like the ever odious Priti Patel, who was suggesting that the UK could not accept any Afghan refugees.

  198. 198.

    Ken

    @Brachiator: Also, there seemed to be a break in the BREXIT spell that Johnson had cast over the British people

    Not surprising, considering the shortages of essential foodstuffs.

    (That one was picked for the minor joke. But the UK is experiencing supply-chain disruptions which are leading to the proverbial “empty shelves”, according to multiple reports. Chris Grey’s “Brexit & Beyond” blog has more links.)

  199. 199.

    lowtechcyclist

    Following up on Jeffro and Citizen Alan, it was on March 13, 2002 – just six months after 9/11/2001 – that Bush said he didn’t think much about bin Laden anymore:

    QUESTION: Mr. President, in your speeches now, you rarely talk or mention Osama bin Laden. Why is that?

    Also, can you can tell the American people if you have any more information — if you know if he is dead or alive. Deep in your heart, don’t you truly believe that until you find out if he is dead or alive, you won’t really want to make…

    BUSH: Well, deep in my heart, I know the man’s on the run if he’s alive at all. And I — you know, who knows if he’s hiding in some cave or not? We hadn’t heard from him in a long time.

    And the idea of focusing on one person is really — indicates to me people don’t understand the scope of the mission. Terror’s bigger than one person. And he’s just — he’s a person who has now been marginalized. His network is — his host government has been destroyed. He’s the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match.

    He is — you know, as I mention in my speeches — I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death. And he, himself, tries to hide, if, in fact, he’s hiding at all.

    So I don’t know where he is. Nor — you know, I just don’t spend that much time on him really, to be honest with you. I’m more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well supplied, that the strategy is clear, that the coalition is strong, that when we find enemy bunched up, like we did in Shah-e-Kot mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.

    And there will be other battles in Afghanistan. There’s going to be other struggles like Shah-e-Kot. And I’m just as confident about the outcome of those future battles as I was about Shah-e-kot, where our soldiers are performing brilliantly; we’re tough, we’re strong, they’re well-equipped, we have a good strategy. We are showing the world we know how to fight a guerrilla war with conventional means.

    QUESTION: Do you believe the threat that bin Laden posed won’t truly be eliminated until he is found either dead of alive?

    BUSH: As I say, we hadn’t heard much from him. And I wouldn’t necessarily say he’s at the center of any command structure. And, you know, again, I don’t know where he is.

    I’ll repeat what I said: I truly am not that concerned about him.     I know he is on the run.

    For a rebuttal, though one is hardly necessary, I turn the mic over to Humphrey Bogart as Sam Spade in The Maltese Falcon:

    When a man’s partner is killed, he’s supposed to do something. It makes no difference what you thought of him. He was your partner, and you’re supposed to do something about it. And it happens we’re in the detective business.

    Well, when one of your organization gets killed, it’s bad business to let the killer get away with it, bad all around, bad for every detective everywhere.

    And that’s what Bush didn’t grasp, and like Jeffro, I just don’t get how Bush didn’t get dragged out by a torch-bearing mob after that. Because when you’re President, and 3000 of your countrymen just got slaughtered by a terrorist mastermind, “it’s bad business to let the killer get away with it, bad all around, bad for every [American] everywhere.” And he said flat-out that he didn’t care if bin Laden got away with it or not.

  200. 200.

    debbie

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I’ll repeat what I said: I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run.

    Because you let him go four months earlier in Tora Bora, jackass!

  201. 201.

    Brachiator

    @Roger Moore:

    The discussion here was specifically about the post-WWII period.

    Fair point, but it also looked back at, for example, the British problems in Afghanistan in the 1830s. In some ways, the post war era was just earlier problems coming home to roost.

    We were much more reluctant to actually invade other countries in the Americas during that time, preferring instead to use assassination and funding revolutionary groups.

    True, but I had family members who were part of the US intervention in the Dominican Republic in 1965. They had vivid and bitter stories to tell. Grenada, Haiti, the British Falklands war. The beat goes on.

    And yes, the original colonial powers deserve some blame for the problems in the Americas.  So do the people living in those countries, who haven’t done the greatest job of things when we weren’t invading them.

    Yep. Totally agree.

  203. 203.

    Tony Jay

    @Brachiator:

    There will be frustration and anger from some, there’s bound to be. They or their loved ones fought in a war that went on for 20 bloody years. Lives were lost, bodies wrecked, minds torn apart, and they were told it was all worth it because of whichever one of the ever shifting reasons given for the UK’s part in it made most sense to them. People need to feel that the sacrifices they make and the bravery they find within themselves are worth it.

    But it wasn’t. It never was. It was always bullshit and Biden’s blunt assessment of why he’s ended America’s involvement is about as close as anyone in a position of genuine power is ever going to come to saying so. They’re angry, but it’s the Media cheerleaders for Boom TV who want to distract from their own multiple failures who are responsible for smearing their faces all over the TV screens to ‘prove’ how right they were to support Blair’s incoherent bastardy. They could easily find scads of people with genuine expertise and experience to explain how the Occupation of Afghanistan failed, why, and why what’s happening now was an inevitable result of decades of guileless fuckitude.

    But that’s not the story they want to tell. They want to pretend that Britain is offended and insulted by Biden’s ‘isolationism’, but honestly ‘Britain’ couldn’t care less. They’re the ones who are offended and insulted, but that’s because they’re a bunch of smarmy twats engaged in an interminable circle-jerk of manufactured ‘news’ and select opinion masquerading as something important.

    Fuck ’em. I rejoice in their pain.

  204. 204.

    Brachiator

    @lowtechcyclist:

    So I don’t know where he is. Nor — you know, I just don’t spend that much time on him really, to be honest with you.

    I remember seeing this clip, maybe more, and immediately thinking that it was incredibly callous, stupid and short-sighted. And that we were in deep trouble with people like this in charge.

  206. 206.

    Another Scott

    @Brachiator: A couple of things struck me in seeing it again.

    1. How incredibly deferential the questioner (unnamed there, at a press conference) was.
    2. If it wasn’t so important to get him, why invade Afghanistan in the first place?  It shows, yet again, that it wasn’t about getting bin Laden, it was about turning him into a Wartime President Who Cannot Be Questioned™.

    Remember, before 9/11, his big initiative was spending down the  Clinton-Gore federal surplus on tax cuts, and No Child Left Behind (that’s why he was reading My Pet Goat on 9/11). And most everyone was Meh at best about him….

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  208. 208.

    eddie blake

    W and his people made a video joking about not finding WMD’s in iraq and how W was looking for them under the sofa cushions in the white house.

    just imagine if a democratic president did that.

  209. 209.

    Miss Bianca

    @Baud:

    Oh, man.  What I wouldn’t give for Biden to get the Peace Prize for ending the war.

    The apoplexy in certain quarters would be off the charts.

    Oh, yeah. OH, YEAH.

  210. 210.

    Tony Jay

    I’m sure it must have already been said, but it needs repeating every now and again for emphasis.

    What the US/UK Boom TV establishment are really angry at Biden about, the reason they’re scrabbling around for any negative narrative they can use to attack him over the withdrawal from Afghanistan, is this.

    THEY TOLD HIM in the immediate wake of the Afghan Government’s collapse and the dissolving of the Afghan Army, that he HAD to respond in the way they were telling him to. In order to protect his personal reputation, he HAD to order the  US military back in to ‘destroy’ the Taliban.

    That’s what they wanted. Boom TV pictures of American firepower punishing evildoers and a swift 180 on all that peacenik talk. It was all so clear to them that Biden didn’t have a choice, surely he could see that cock-swinging macho bullshit was the only defence against their accusations of cowardly retreat?

    But he didn’t play ball. He told the Media to fuck off and denied them their beautiful eyeball-catching firework show.

    They won’t forgive that. No matter how long it takes, they’ll punish him for bucking the system. That’s just how they roll.

  211. 211.

    Felanius Kootea

    @NotMax:  Actually that would be St. Lucia with two Nobel prizes: Derek Walcott for literature and Arthur Lewis for Economics. St. Lucia’s population is almost half of Iceland’s.

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