The Supreme Court passively allowed the breathtakingly extremist antichoice law in Texas to go into effect at midnight, and we haven’t heard a peep out of them since as far as I know. Assuming they remain silent on the Texas Handmaiden Act, the “will they or won’t they” question now is whether SCOTUS will strike Roe down outright when they take up the Mississippi case or continue to allow wingnut-controlled states to whittle away at reproductive freedom as they have been doing for years. Katha Pollitt:
If they are shrewd, the six antichoice justices on the Supreme Court will resist the urge to overturn Roe v. Wade when they decide next term on Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization. At issue is a Mississippi law banning abortion after 15 weeks of gestation in explicit defiance of Roe, which protects abortion rights until around 24 weeks. Why hand the Democrats an issue that has worked well for them in purple states like Virginia? An attempt in 2012 to force women seeking abortions to have transvaginal ultrasounds backfired against Republicans so powerfully the state is now entirely under Democratic control.
So, will the extremist wing of the court be able to resist spiking the football by killing Roe? Your guess is as good as mine. But reproductive rights are already over for millions of women who don’t have the means to travel to seek care. That’s been the case for a long time.
I think Pollitt is right to say it would be smart for the religious fanatics on the court to leave Roe alone. But she expresses a doubt I share: whether striking down Roe would galvanize the prochoice majority in America in sufficient numbers to make Republicans pay politically. Again, your guess is as good as mine.
Modern oppressive societies don’t usually pass grotesque laws like the one Abbott in Texas signed, which deputizes antichoice fanatics to investigate every suspected miscarriage with the incentive of a $10,000 bounty. Today’s oppressors are typically more sophisticated than that, leaving a Potemkin democracy and hollowed-out human rights framework in place to deflect criticism and maintain the appearance of civility.
Maybe the Bony Carrot wing of the court will settle for that, just as Roberts & Co. left a shell of the Voting Rights Act in place while greenlighting racially targeted voter suppression. Overturning Roe will make abortion less safe, but as Pollitt notes, we won’t simply return to the unsafe conditions of the pre-Roe era. Now there’s an organized army of fanatics eager to enforce their extremist vision on the rest of us.
Open thread.
JPL
Next up is restricting birth control methods.
Evangelical Terrorists win.
CaseyL
It’s just wild. The US has become two different countries in so many ways.
I mean, there was never a single, united national culture. But the ideological divide has not been this wide since the Civil War, nor concentrated in so many states.
VeniceRiley
The 10K Taliban. Just give them long sticks to beat women in the street already. That’s what they really truly want. And that’s now what SCOTUS wants as well.
You have no idea how angry I am. NO. IDEA.
JPL
This part is insane: People can bring suits up to FOUR YEARS later. And if a court decision briefly protects the right to abortion and then gets overruled, defendants can’t rely on that, EVEN IF the decision was good law at the time. Perpetual threat of devastating liability.
Jay Willis (@jaywillis) / Twitter
MattF
My dad, who was a physician, always knew at what hospitals abortions were available— he said you just needed to look at the surgical statistics, and it was obvious. If you’ve got the money and/or the knowledge, it’s easy.
waspuppet
@CaseyL: I’m also not sure there’s ever been such a split that’s so completely out of whack with what actual Americans think. Ted Cruz got 50.9% in his last election. John Cornyn got 53.5%. Trump got 52.06%.
As for what the SCOTUS is going to do, the role of the conservative “majority” (again, this status has nothing to do with how Americans think) is to be — not the “moderate” wing of the GOP exactly, but the segment that’s thinking long-term, past the next election. So yeah — they’ll never say “Roe is overturned.” And Chuck Todd will believe them. And Fox News will continue to say (as their chyron did this morning) “Some” abortions are banned.
Betty Cracker
@CaseyL: A complicating factor is that it’s more of a rural-urban divide now than a Mason-Dixon line thing. If your state’s cities are large enough to outvote the yahoos, you have a shot at sane governance. If not, you’re out of luck.
rikyrah
@JPL:
They are SO coming for birth control
JPL
Not all Evangelicals are terrorists, but the ones supporting this draconian law are.
rikyrah
@VeniceRiley:
Oh, I have an idea
SFAW
As JPL noted, Griswold is the ultimate goal. Well, maybe not ultimate, because overturning Griswold will not automatically return women to chattel status. But they’ll take what they can get, re: that quest.
As one alleged “Democrat” woman said in 2016: “Give me a reason to vote for Hillary, but without mentioning Trump or the Supreme Court.” I hope she’s happy now.
waspuppet
@rikyrah: Time to start airlifting women and girls out of Texas.
trollhattan
The other Confederate states are now jelly of Texas, as are quite a few northern ones. The bounty-hunt provision is added laffs.
Despite knowing the day was coming, witnessing it is still stunning.
Omnes Omnibus
Copied from a thread below: I am not going to gloss over how pernicious this law is nor how cowardly it was for the majority on the Court to use the shadow docket to try to keep their fingerprints off the whole thing, BUT there are and will be legal challenges to this law. One thing that people can do is support the ACLU and Planned Parenthood of Texas as they fight to overturn this law. The fight isn’t over.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@JPL:
Yup. For probably a dozen years, many commentators, Marcotte comes to mind as one of the earliest, have said that the forced birthers aren’t about zygote protection, it’s about getting rid of all reproductive choice for women. The result being they’re barefoot, pregnant, chained to the bed with just enough slack to get to the kitchen.
Well, with lots of hidden exceptions for those who can afford to travel to get one. Typical forced birther mindset, meaning if 16-year old Maddie gets knocked up by the captain of the football team, it can quietly be taken care of. What’s good for me is not good for thee.
Another reason for the Prez to start floating more court expansion plans.
narya
@VeniceRiley: Actually, I do. Incandescent rage is mild compared to where I am, and I suspect you are right here next to me. I do not have enough curse words.
trollhattan
@rikyrah: Yup. “No slut pills for you sluts.”
Ugh.
jnfr
I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out a way to split the nation into two. I honestly believe that’s the only way forward.
But I can’t find a way to do it, just by simple geography. We are not sorted by states into red and blue cultures. It’s an urban/rural split and it is in every state.
I don’t know what to do then.
JPL
@SFAW: Those on MediCare or those who rely on healthcare partially funded by the government (ACA) will be targeted first.
trollhattan
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Last I checked Manchin and Sinema remain Manchin and Sinema. I don’t think Joe has a path here.
New Breed Leader
Yeah, they’re all but done with ANY appearance of civility. It’s Gilead, now. Birth by the barrel of a gun.
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus: Thank you. I’m on a monthly to ACLU. I give to the general Planned Parenthood, but maybe I’ll have to seek out the Texas branch.
Mallard Filmore
I wonder how these deranged laws on abortion, guns, covid, etc. will affect high profile companies like SpaceX. Will they stop investing? Move out? If my employer told me my position was moving to Texas, my response would be “If you say so, but I’m not.”
Hungry Joe
Legal question: If Roe is overturned could I, as a resident of California, be prosecuted for aiding/abetting an abortion in a state where it’s illegal? What if the abortion wasn’t performed in that state, but I provided funds for a woman to travel to a third, abortion-legal state? If I were indicted, would California be obliged to extradite me?
Similar question re the new Texas law: Could someone (anyone?) sue me, and win?
New Breed Leader
@JPL: For women, only. Not for men, of course.
Ksmiami
@VeniceRiley: I’m feeling ragey murderous rn. Like let’s get this war on – no quarter.
Roger Moore
@JPL:
Step one is based on the lie that hormonal birth control is a form of abortion.
Immanentize
Where are the Ellen Jamesians when we so need them?!
Another Scott
@Omnes Omnibus: +1
This law seems so incredibly overbroad and overreaching that it is designed to be scaled back. That has to be intentional as it has been their tactic all along. Go for the maximum, let the courts scale it back a tiny bit, then move the ratchet up to the new baseline. Repeat.
The courts are not a branch of government that is superior to the other two. It’s time for them to learn that lesson.
Fight for 15!!
Cheers,
Scott.
SFAW
@JPL:
Medicaid, not Medicare (unless 65-year-olds now need birth control), but I get your point, and agree.
Ksmiami
@jnfr: migrate the cities like Austin etc into others. Cut off the red states and build a giant wall
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@trollhattan:
I realize it’s a dim prospect. The House (I think) introduced a bill back in April when Biden setup the commission on the SC. It’s only been 4 months since that happened so I’m guessing he’s waiting for wtf it is they’ll say.
Still doesn’t mean we can’t hammer on this in any number of ways. Electorally, TX elects enough Dems to control things (equally tough) and they can simply repeal the law.
Regardless, this sucks.
geg6
I AM SO FUCKING FURIOUS ALL I CAN DO IS SCREAM. FUCK FUCK FUCKITY FUCK FUCK FUCK.
That’s it for female autonomy. I am so sorry and sad for my younger sisters across this shitty dog forsaken piece of garbage of a country.
FUCK FUCK FUCKITY FUCK FUCK FUCK.
Cameron
I don’t think Texas will stop at abortion. Or birth control. I think they’re going to go with bounty hunters for any activity they don’t like. Remember,too,anybody there can pack heat.
sixthdoctor
If our media weren’t worthless (yeah, I know) Susan Collins would be hammered on this law every day for the rest of her far-too-long Senate term. She’s got a lot of responsibility for this.
SFAW
@Roger Moore:
Step one is based on the lie that hormonal birth control is a form of abortion.
That’s their go-to tactic:
“Many people believe the election was stolen”
“Many people believe the birth control pill causes abortions.”
“Many people believe enslavement is the natural and wished for state of blacks and other POC.”
And so forth.
Roger Moore
@SFAW:
Brown is the ultimate goal. Griswold and Loving are only stepping stones.
SFAW
@sixthdoctor:
But Sara Gideon wasn’t born in Maine!!! Game, set, and QED, libtard!
SFAW
@Roger Moore:
To-MAY-toe, po-TAH-toe
Omnes Omnibus
@Hungry Joe: These questions are just part of the reason that is law is vulnerable to legal challenges. Even if you do the “apart from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play” thing over the abortion ban, this law is completely crappy.
Old Man Shadow
I think the future will involve declaring that fetuses at a certain point in time have civil rights protections under the 14th amendment thus outlawing abortion nationally.
Yes, I know the language of the 14th amendment presents a speedbump to that idea, but since when has the Constitution actually constrained a right-wing zealot?
Roger Moore
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
This law is actually terrible for that, because it puts anyone who knows the woman is pregnant in position to rat them out for profit. And then they can go after anyone who helps along the way.
JPL
@SFAW: Duh Thanks.
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Scott: That being said, even if it is overturned, it is currently the law in TX and it is right now fucking up people’s lives.
JPL
@Hungry Joe: Yup.. The bounty hunters will be after you. I like the part where even if you provided the money will it was legal, you can be sued up to four years later, if it was unlegal at that time.
WTFWTFWTFWTFWTFWTF
Immanentize
@Roger Moore: The Katzenbach cases are the goal.
Kathleen
@SFAW: Biting my keyboard except to say that the woman who warned us about this was roundly mocked and pilloried. And was right about every effing thing.
Immanentize
I have so many ideas about this — which I just expressed after a student asked about them in class this morning.
But I will say this — the anti-abortion foes have no idea, outside of controlling women, where these things will go in the law. They want to control women. But they have not given a thought to property law, contract, policing, etc. They just want to own the women.
Another Scott
@jnfr: Sorry, nope. Our forebearers didn’t fight and die to keep the country united and strong to let a tiny minority of RWNJs destroy the country. We can’t let them win – they are not the majority.
That’s enough to get started. There will be more later.
We know what to do to fix the problems. We can’t just give up.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
After reading the article Watergirl posted it comes across as more of SCOTUS is just phoning it in so they can get back to their golf games rather than some cunning Right Wing plot, the ruling merely happen to favor the Right because the Justice who drew the short straw and had write it up that day is more likely to be conservative. Just random and unpredictable.
Immanentize
@Old Man Shadow: I undersatand why you think that might happen, but it really cannot in the framework of all of our other laws. Would I be able to will my money to a zygote (fertilized egg) that has been cryogenically frozen for future implantation in fifty years?
JPL
@Immanentize: Let them eat wedding cake.
Roger Moore
@trollhattan:
I think there’s a very strong argument in favor of increasing the size of the courts just because they’re way too busy right now. It might be possible to get Manchin onboard by giving high priority to WV in nominations and promising him a lot of say in the judges who get nominated. I think he could be bought with that kind of horse trading. I don’t know about how to buy Sinema off.
VFX Lurker
I appreciate the comment upthread about donating to the Texas branch of Planned Parenthood. I already make automatic monthly donations to the ACLU and Planned Parenthood. I’ll look into setting up a monthly donation to Planned Parenthood of Greater Texas.
Omnes Omnibus
@Immanentize: Wouldn’t that violate the Rule against Perpetuities?
trollhattan
@Another Scott:
Speaking of churches and the courts, get a load of this load.
VeniceRiley
@VFX Lurker: bam! You owe me 10 grand.
Immanentize
@Omnes Omnibus: Of course it would, but the RaP is predicated on the well settled law (centuries!) that a “person” my be live-born. But if we move personhood back to conception, then denying that person a right to inherit would be an equal protection violation
ETA — that is my point — these folks in their zealotry to prevent women from choosing their destinies are willing to upset the most foundational aspects of law (maybe particularly property law)
Hungry Joe
The Plan B pill and the two-step abortion pills are about to become red-hot contraband. The latter are supposed to be taken under medical supervision, but desperate times, and all that. Counterfeits will appear. The rare but potentially dangerous side effects of abortion pills will go untreated, or suffering women will submit and be grilled by Gilead enforcers: Where did you get the pills? Who gave you the money?
I wonder if it’s now Texas-illegal to treat a woman with abortion-related complications without turning her in.
Puddinhead
@Omnes Omnibus: I think some well-placed operatives paid to act as spies on the children of wealthy Texas republican donors will help settle things. Wait for one of them to go to another state to take care of a “problem” and then sue their ass with as much publicity as possible. See how things progress from there.
Nelle
Make a list of Texas Republican women of childbearing age. Make them prove in court that they are not pregnant and thinking of an abortion. Do this by the hundreds and thousands. Flood the court system. They want. They got it.
It isn’t just for those getting an abortion. It is, as I understand it, for those thinking about it. Since it starts before many even know that they are pregnant, they Need to prove, over and over, that they aren’t. They need to prove that they aren’t thinking about terminating what might be.
guachi
What Congress won’t do but should is eliminate funding for Supreme Court clerks. If the SC wants to wage war on the law and precedent then the only option is to wage war right back.
trollhattan
@Hungry Joe:
Hell, I’ll guess the anti-everything crowd will abet counterfeiting just to make desperate folks hesitant about buying any. Not to ignore the usual greedy people who will be all in doing the same.
Immanentize
@Nelle: Reality? Every woman who suffers a miscarriage after week 6 will be a potential taret of an abortion suit.
ETA — AND no exception for rape or incest. At some level, I gotta admit that if abortion is absolutely morally wrong, then aborting an unviable “innocent” is wrong whoever the male parent or donor might be.
taumaturgo
@Another Scott: You omitted the most important issue that is corroding democracy: Corruption.
Sure Lurkalot
Meanwhile, also in Texas.
A good deal of my family lives in Texas (sadly, more are considering moving there) and I’ve told them, one and all, I have no intentions of spending another penny in that state by visiting.
Roger Moore
@Old Man Shadow:
This gets down to the basic point of the anti-abortion zealots; they believe a fetus is a human being with rights and a pregnant woman is not. Of course a lot of them take exception with the “pregnant” part of that latter statement.
mali muso
I am incandescent with rage. No words. Just. Rage.
Bex
I don’t think Roe will ever be overturned. Yes, it may be further limited, but Roe is a cash cow for the nutjobs. Lots of them make their living off it, with good-paying jobs in all the organizations that supposedly want to end it. It’s a continuing windfall of money raised by constantly hitting up people with scary emails about how they’re going to hell if they don’t donate. That being said, we still have to fight these authoritarian assholes.
Roger Moore
@Immanentize:
I think they most want to return the the Lochner era. Actually, they would be happiest if they could repeal the 13th Amendment.
Immanentize
@mali muso: Oh, I have words. Many many words.
cain
@JPL: What about when say you lost the baby due to something else – so not only have you lost the baby, you got some asshole sniffing up behind looking to earn an easy $10k by trying to turn it into an abortion issue.
There is going to be a LOT of tears. This will bite conservatives hard as well. I don’t think they know what they have wrought. They are literally creating a new industry that polices women. Imagine our tax dollars going to this kind of bullshit.
Baud
I hope so. Unlike some things, reproductive rights are fixable if we can win enough elections.
jnfr
@Another Scott:
I will not give up, I promise.
Nelle
@Immanentize: That’s why I’m thinking that there needs to be an offensive move against what is offensive. Tired of catch-up defense which always pushes us farther back.
mali muso
@Immanentize: Yeah, I suppose I do too. Not sure if they are fit for public consumption though.
Immanentize
@Roger Moore: Well, they have reinstituted (via the shadow docket — without briefing or argument) a property owner’s “right to exclude” which is from that era.
Baud
@Roger Moore:
In fairness, we might be better off if we can turn right wingers into non-citizen slaves.
Immanentize
@mali muso: Those words are just fine, because appropriate, in my company.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
My point above is that well-off white people on TX who have the need and desire to get an abortion will get one and not get ratted out. How many stories have we heard over the years of screaming forced birthers somehow being involved in getting somebody an abortion?
That being said, the law is clearly intended to keep “those others” in line by bounty hunters, etc.
There’s a real North Korean vibe in all of this.
Ksmiami
@guachi: cut them off. Weaken the courts. The next step is guillotines. And lots of tumbrels
Immanentize
@Nelle: I agree. But from my perspective, so much dangerous bad is happening right now in law that having one issue as the primary one all advocates agree must be addressed first(!!11!!!) will prevent such an effort from becoming effective.
It is the Gish Gallop of legal retrenchment.
sixthdoctor
@Roger Moore: they believe a fetus is a human being with rights and a pregnant woman is not
There’s a science-fiction short story by Adam-Troy Castro called “Arvies” that takes this concept to the absurd extreme:
https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/arvies/
Kay
There will be an effort to dismiss any concerns by portraying opponents as stupid and hysterical so I think people should see the law and read it.
Pay particular attention to the restrictions on abortion to protect to the life of the mother, and how far the radical Right intends to insert themselves into every pregnancy related act from conception to birth:
Sec. 171.208. CIVIL LIABILITY FOR VIOLATION OR AIDING OR
ABETTING VIOLATION. (a) Any person, other than an officer or
employee of a state or local governmental entity in this state, may
bring a civil action against any person who:
(1) performs or induces an abortion in violation of
this subchapter;
(2) knowingly engages in conduct that aids or abets
the performance or inducement of an abortion, including paying for
or reimbursing the costs of an abortion through insurance or
otherwise, if the abortion is performed or induced in violation of
this subchapter, regardless of whether the person knew or should
have known that the abortion would be performed or induced in
violation of this subchapter; or
(3) intends to engage in the conduct described
What people need to understand is these laws apply to every woman who is or becomes pregnant.
Medical interventions in any pregnancy will now be overseen by religious extremists, and allowed or disallowed. These aren’t just abortion laws. They are pregnancy laws. A pregnant women seeking medical care will have the exact same burden to prove she needs the medical care as a woman seeking an abortion. It’s a huge, brand new statutory scheme that regulates every single prenancy and it has never existed before. It’s not “pre Roe”. It’s much more onerous than that, because it reaches every single pregnancy.
NotMax
Would like to see Musk abandon moving operations to Texas now.
A guy can dream, can’t he?
Roger Moore
@Omnes Omnibus:
A number of states have already gotten rid of it. But in this case, I think he’s asking whether the legal changes anti-abortion people want to make would result in a frozen zygote into a living person from the standpoint of the rule against perpetuities.
Dan B
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: The Right’s disgust with and dislike of pleasure and overwhelming lust for “purity” is obvious in this Texas law, and the Roberts’ Court’s actions.
They are at war with much that makes life worth living. They may not desire our deaths but they pine for hair shirts.
Who will be in their crosshairs next?
Answer, almost everyone.
TriassicSands
Republicans, on the SCOTUS and off, aren’t that worried about elections since they’re hard at work fixing them. They already have a disproportionate advantage, which they keep expanding. Don’t expect the Court to step in to protect democracy. The majority isn’t interested in democracy.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Immanentize:
Trusts, man. The Rule Agin’ Perpetuities is a mere shadow of its former self.
I no shit was trying to address some claims involving commercial property owned by a 1959 New York trust, itself a successor trust to some other shadow entity. It was like untangling three strands of Christmas lights that had been in a box for 8 years.
Anonymous At Work
Roberts and Kavanaugh are politicians first. Their M.O. here is send the case back to district court with instructions for reconsideration that allow for the state legislature’s “findings of fact” to carry significant weight, even if medically irrelevant or outright false. The ruling will enable each individual state to set their own standard (i.e. restrictive as possible) based on “states’ rights” without ending Roe. Roe will be modified but not overturned, same with Casey, by allowing states to set different standards. Prevents the wedge issue but signals that the flood gates are open.
Where the action will be at are the concurrences. Can a concurrence attract enough votes to promise OPENLY far beyond what Roberts and Kavanaugh write in coded language?
Finally, can Democrats seize on this in 2022 or will the Supremes attempt to drag out a final ruling until 2024 or later, hoping for GOP gains in midterms?
PS: Bonus points for who guesses the number of times Suzy Collins gets on TV and says she is concerned.
NotMax
@Baud
“On the plus side, you’ll be dunned for only 3/5 the taxes of everyone else.”
//
Hungry Joe
Complications are multiplying geometrically. It’s now risky for pregnant women to visit Texas: If they have a miscarriage and someone gets suspicious and rats them out, they could be on the hook for $10K. (“PROVE it was a miscarriage!”) Plus court costs. Everyone around her could be sued, too. (“You travel with her — you must have aided her in some way. $10,000, please. Yes, I take Venmo.”)
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Baud:
Suburban/exurban women have proven over and over that there’s a substantial number that equal their partners in the “asshole” department.
Kay
Sec. 171.205. EXCEPTION FOR MEDICAL EMERGENCY; RECORDS.
(a) Sections 171.203 and 171.204 do not apply if a physician
believes a medical emergency exists that prevents compliance with
this subchapter.
(b) A physician who performs or induces an abortion under
circumstances described by Subsection (a) shall make written
notations in the pregnant woman’s medical record of:
(1) the physician’s belief that a medical emergency
necessitated the abortion; and
(2) the medical condition of the pregnant woman that
prevented compliance with this subchapter.
(c) A physician performing or inducing an abortion under
this section shall maintain in the physician’s practice records a
copy of the notations made under Subsection (b).
Not an abortion law. A pregnancy law. A brand new statutory scheme that regulates every single pregnant woman and applies to all the medical care she receives, from conception to birth.
There will be trials on whether the medical intervention fits the exception and the woman’s medical records will be introduced along with the “notes” the physician is mandated to make. Your nosy neighbor, any random Right wing religious extremist, your abusive ex boyfriend, anyone can get access to the entire course of your pregnancy and drag your whole life through a civil proceeding, as long as they choose to and to the extent that they choose to. Not only will you have no control over it, you’re not even a party to the action.
cmorenc
@Another Scott:
While President, Andrew Jackson sharply reminded the SCOTUS of his day of this exact point by ignoring their decision in Worcester v Georgia – too bad the issue was whether the US government had the power to expel the Cherokees (sovereign Cherokee Nation) from Georgia. Not exactly the ideal poster-child precedent for a President putting SCOTUS in its place.
Ksmiami
Massive boycott and economic pressure on every Texas based company. Alert airlines that they should no longer touchdown in thx Taliban land as it’s dangerous for any woman flying thru.
Immanentize
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Its Jarndyce v. Jarndyce all over again!
Betty Cracker
@Roger Moore: What?
NobodySpecial
At this point, the only thing left to do is gum up the works. Give them so many prisoners and so many court cases that the judicial system down there blows up. Preemptively strike by suing a lot of these guys for knocking up their mistresses and make them spend their money on non recoverable lawyer fees. Arrest them every time they share a Facebook post trying to shame women trying to get an abortion because they knew it was happening and did nothing. Drown the whole system in irrelevance. Make them spend so much time in court on bullshit lawsuits that actual criminals go unpunished, and put the “Soft on crime” bullshit on them, since they own the system.
Make them own this law publicly by making them laughingstocks and jokes. Win the public over not with appeals to their nonexistent morality, but with the sheer torrent of bullshit that every part of the legal system will buckle under because they passed this insane law.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Yes, just like the Afghanistan war – we did some stupid half-ass thing but you all are just alamrist because you don’t see the wisdom of the stupid half-ass thing we just tossed out because we are lazy and how dare you try to fix the mess our stupid half-assed thing did because we were lazy since it was you job to stop us from doing this brazenly obvious stupid half ass thing. Over and over again.
hrprogressive
Fascism is Here, right now.
And it’s going to become the American Way Of Life unless citizens mobilize, immediately.
We cannot count on the Democrats to do it. They have abdicated their responsibilities.
Proceed with this knowledge.
Ohio Mom
Obviously child rearing-aged women and their families will suffer horribly, that doesn’t need to be said. Likewise, it does community and democracy no good to set neighbor against neighbor so viciously.
But I hold onto the images of legions of Irish women striding through airports, on their way home to vote for the right to an abortion. Joined by many, many others who were already home.
There will be a backlash in Texas, I can’t say when. But Texans will come to understand this law doesn’t just affect “them,” it hurts them and theirs.
I don’t know when I became such an optimist. I wasn’t this way when I was younger.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Not an abortion law — a pregnancy law. You’re right. It’s utterly horrifying.
ETA: I wish someone with a bigger megaphone would explain it exactly as you just did. Just reading the words is chilling.
Immanentize
@hrprogressive: How come it is always an attack on Democrats with you nitwits?
laura
THERE IS A TERRIBLE SICKNESS THAT HAS SEEPT OVER THIS COUNTRY.
I am shimmering with rage- my temples are buzzing. Women of child bearing age are potential profit centers for every single pecksniffing slut shaming woman hating individual who cares to try. They are coming for Griswold not just for contraception but also for the entirety of the right to privacy. The Penumbra has bothered the “originalists” for some time now.
Today’s a great day for throwing some cash in the basket for the women at Rewire. Bless Imani Gandy and Jessica Pleiko: https://rewirenewsgroup.com/
Roger Moore
@Betty Cracker:
We know the whole anti-abortion movement was founded by a bunch of racists who were upset their whites-only private schools weren’t getting tax breaks. They aren’t going to stop with overturning Roe. They’re going to go after a lot more, and I think Brown v Board of Education is the real long-term goal.
Roger Moore
@Immanentize:
The Romans are too hard a target. It’s much easier to attack the Judean People’s Front.
cwmoss
@JPL: All the loud ones are terrorists.
sab
@Kay:
@Kay:
So, so true. At least half of my nieces have had miscarriages. Every one of them would be at risk under this law if they lived in Texas.
Yutsano
@Dan B: Obergefell. Windsor. All state laws allowing equal marriage* annuled. Laws allowing criminalisation of LGBTQ sex acts upheld. The conservative 6 want all that and more. No restrictions on gun sales. EPA ruled unconstitutional. There’s a whole Federal Society wish list that could get overturned. The only solution from now on is Democrats must make all further laws exempt from judicial review. Otherwise everything will get gutted.
*I haven’t used that term in a long time. I actually like it over “gay marriage”. It’s definitely more inclusive, at least to me.
Omnes Omnibus
@Immanentize: No disagreement. This is also why I think they are legally vulnerable even in pro-forced birth states.
trollhattan
@hrprogressive:
When’s the secret meeting?
Argiope
@Kay: really important point. Let’s do an example: woman with an IUD in place manages against high odds to get pregnant. Risk to the woman AND the pregnancy are very high if the IUD is left in place due to sepsis, but there is a small risk of disrupting the pregnancy if the IUD is removed. How many women are going to become septic because clinicians are afraid to remove the IUD?
JPL
@cain: Let’s hope that it bites them, but some are draconian enough to believe the miscarriages are caused because the female did something wrong.
Damned_at_Random
Will there be an impact on corporate recruiting? Will women with marketable skills opt not to take jobs in Texas and other Taliban states out of principle or simple self preservation? I suspect a lot of women born since Roe haven’t considered the anti-choice movement as a real threat, just background noise. There may be a renewed women’s movement as a consequence of this (fingers crossed).
I need to send some turkee to NARAL. BBL
sab
I am curious about how this law would interact with Federal HIIPA law, since it has to be a private citizen, not a public employee, bringing the action. How do they get acces to the medocal records?
Cacti
@hrprogressive: Expect to get a lot of tut tutting about how we can win with reasoned discourse and civility. Despite neither of those two ever defeating a fascist movement.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
On this I actually blame women. They need to stop thinking of “abortion”, putting that in a box that reads “other women” and read the text of these laws.
The laws apply to all pregnancies. Every single piece of that statute applies to all pregnant women.
It’s a brand new statutory scheme that regulates pregnancy from conception to birth. It didn’t exist pre-Roe. It is much, much more onerous and burdensome than pre-Roe.
Pre-Roe they left you alone unless you sought out an abortion. This is much more comprehensive and opens every single pregnancy up to evaluation and legal action, by anyone. WORLDS more intrusive than pre-Roe. Much, much worse than any pro-choice activist ever predicted.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@trollhattan: It’s a secret.
Immanentize
@Roger Moore: Ha! Mangy Jay just had a great little thread on this idea of breaking off from the Democratic party (part the first):
Soprano2
I’ve been telling people this for years, and they always “pooh-pooh” me, saying that conservative women use birth control too and they would never give it up. These people are naïve and delusional IMHO – of course they’re coming for safe, effective, easy-to-use methods of birth control, because they believe it will make “those sluts” quit having unapproved-of-by-religion sex. I wouldn’t put it past them to try to pass laws saying only legally married women can get things like birth control and IUD’s.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Hard to tell if this is your view or you’re snarking on the article. Either way it’s a completely bullshit take.
“Just random and unpredictable”? Puh-leeze. From the “Shadow Docket” thread:
JPL
@Kay: Would one have to pay the fine, if they used the right to privacy laws that exist? (HIPAA)
I read the section that stated you have up to four years to sue, even if during that time, the person had a legal abortion.
Yutsano
@hrprogressive: @Cacti: Seriously? Y’all are trying to compare countries with weak institutions to ours? GTFO with that bullshite. We got work to do.
Miss Bianca
@hrprogressive: “Proceed with this knowledge”…where? The voting booth? Oh, right, I can’t vote for Democrats, they’re too morally compromised, and the only candidates I *can* vote for, according to your lights, couldn’t get elected anyway, so MY PURITY IS INTACT, yay!
Wanker.
The Truffle
@Yutsano: What are suggestions of where to go from here?
trollhattan
@Soprano2:
When a little kid was I, and the moms would be chatting amongst themselves forgetting/not caring small ears were present, a common topic among the Catholics how they had stopped going to confession as they were taking “the pill” and did not wish to be confessing that. NB I was a little kid a LONG time ago, this has been going on decades.
JPL
@sab: Hand over the records or pay the fine. This is meant as satire, but the law is so bad, it’s possible.
Ian R
Time to start DDoSing the Texas courts with lawsuits against each and every republican donor. If someone else pays their non-recoverable attorney fees, that’s just more aiding and abetting, so sue that person too.
germy
F-U to the men, too.
Kay
@Argiope:
I’ve given it a lot of thought over 20 years and I think there’s a kind of blindness where people thought of it as removing the protections of Roe and then returning to some pre-Roe blank space.
These are a brand new set of really radical regulations that apply to every single pregnancy.
It’s a two step process. They have to get rid of Roe to put the new pregnancy regulations in. It actually starts in the “definitions” sections of the statutes. It’s a brand new, never before used definition of “child”. Roe can’t coexist with that definition and the new statutory scheme flows from the definitions.
It’s breathtakingly radical. We’ve never had anything close to this intrusive as to every pregnancy. It’s brand new, radical Right ground.
Betty Cracker
@Roger Moore: I think antichoice zealotry is “ultimately” about controlling women, though a Venn diagram of antichoice zealots and white supremacists would have quite a bit of overlap. In the U.S., it would be a near perfect circle, but there are plenty of nonwhite antichoice zealots in the world, and antichoice zealotry exists in countries where racism isn’t the organizing principle. That’s why I was puzzled by your comment.
JPL
New York Times Pitchbot
@DougJBalloon
Cacti
@Yutsano: Yes, our institutions were looking particularly strong on 1/6/21, weren’t they?
Meanwhile, ever since, the neo-fascist GOP has launched a full frontal assault on the right to vote, abetted by the right wing partisans on SCOTUS.
We have razor thin margins in the House and Senate, currently dependent on feckless centrists like Manchin and Sinema in the latter. And a fresh round of gerrymandering is about to be enacted in the red states, again, blessed by SCOTUS, all to ensure that a racist, bumpkin minority of the population will be handed the ability to choose a majority of our legislators.
Everything is just hunky dory. All is well in the Republic.
The Truffle
@Cacti: There is a backlash building against these fascists. Can’t come soon enough.
Ksmiami
@Cacti: total systemic failure that will lead to violence. That’s where we are headed.
cckids
Wouldn’t this make the employers of anyone who gets/pays towards an abortion liable to be sued as well?
Omnes Omnibus
@The Truffle: Litigate. Support litigation. Vote. Support groups that are fighting voter suppression.
In Texas, report every conservative woman, report their husbands or significant others, report every asshole legislator, minister, etc., who supported this. Jam up the system. If you get your $10K, donate it to Planned Parenthood.
Will that works for starters?
cain
@TriassicSands:
you can also expect them to 1) make a federal law as draconian as the Texas one 2) increase the supreme court with more conservative justices
Ksmiami
@Cacti: the only good fascist is a dead fascist.
rikyrah
@geg6:
Yes????
Betty Cracker
@Immanentize:
MJ is absolutely correct there. I understand the anger because this law is an assault on women’s status as human beings, and aside from tweets from individual female senators like Klobuchar, Warren, Duckworth, etc., there probably won’t be an institutional response from the Democratic Party that is any where near the magnitude of this threat.
That’s maddening. I’ll repeat, with emphasis: THAT’S FUCKING MADDENING. But you try to maintain your status as an equal human being with the party you have, not with the fantasy party you wish you had…
The Truffle
@Omnes Omnibus: Which groups in Texas are worthy of support?
James E Powell
Looks like I picked a good day to deactivate my twitter account.
rikyrah
@Bex:
They just overturned Roe?
cain
@JPL:
Presumption of guilt is against the constitution. Of course, we are now living in some alternative time now and god knows probably everything goes.
Kay
@JPL:
They’ll do what they always do. Minimize the effects and patronizingly dismiss all opponents as irrational hysterics.
There is an entire fucking cottage industry in this country who are absolutely committed to pretending everything is just fine. They cannot let go of their (at this point) romantic and delusional belief in “institutions” because they don’t serve people, they serve institutions. They have lost the point of the reason for the existence of the instuitions in the first place.
rikyrah
@Kay:
You have been telling us, from the beginning.
Cameron
@Betty Cracker: I have a sweet tooth for third parties, but have learned not to vote for them.
Kay
@JPL:
Elite legal commentary is like elite economic commentary. People serve laws and legal institutions, not the other way around. The “legitimacy” of the Supreme Court is an end unto itself. It must be propped up and protected even if it doesn’t mean a fucking thing to any real person anywhere.
It’s like how “the economy” because completely and utterly disconnected to the people who make it up.
It just serves itself. It’s circular.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Truffle: I am not a Texan. I did note above that the ACLU and Planned Parenthood are currently, actively fighting.
Another Scott
@Dan B: Feudalism Now, Feudalism Tomorrow, Feudalism Forever!!1
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
trollhattan
@cckids:
Uh, yeah, what you said.
I literally can’t follow what this is saying.
“If you knew, or if you didn’t know, or if you should have known, you’re guilty, guilty, guilty.” Kafka got nothing on this.
Ksmiami
Just break up the US already and deport right wingers including Roberts etc back to the podunk places where their constituents live. Seriously we need to make the lives of conservative reps and lawyers who live in blue areas a total nightmare
Kay
@rikyrah:
Roe was a wall. That’s all it was. It said “you may go up to here intruding in a pregnancy and woman’s life and no further“.
The state statutes are what will fill the ground once they knock down the fence. They fill all the ground, conception to birth, every pregnancy.
trollhattan
O/T Can y’all read Digby today? I get error messages.
https://digbysblog.net/
Dan B
@Kay: Just sent your comment to a good friend with many political connections in Seattle and across the country.
I’d love to read some hypothetical narratives like a pregnant women traveling through an airport in Texas who needs unanticipated medical care.
sab
@trollhattan: It’s civil not criminal. You aren’t guilty, you are merely liable for $10,000 damages. Also too a lower burden of proof for the guy suing you.
Immanentize
@Kay: That wall was “viability.” It has proven to be a wall that can shrink with medical advancements. But the wall was viability. In Roe, it was a 24 week wall. Science has probably made it a 20 or 21 week wall. but it is certainly NOT six weeks. That is what is being torn down here.
Kay
It’ll be interesting to see if this impacts womens voting at all. I have been told over and over my whole adult life that something or other WOULD and honestly I have yet to see it. I wish it would. It’s just perpetually disappointing that it never seems to.
Mai Naem mobile
@Soprano2: you’re not completely correct in this. This isn’t about a sluts sex thing. They don’t care if you’re married or not. Its about the woman being tied down with kids. You talk to a woman who’s in a relationship she would rather not be in who has a bunch of kids vs one who has no kids. Its just a lot easier to leave when you don’t have kids. There is a reason why oppressive third world/second world countries don’t have easily available birth control.
Immanentize
@Dan B: Funny you should ask. I just sent this to my first year students:
A couple is driving through Houston,Texas, from New Mexico to Louisiana, The woman, who is pregnant, gets violently ill with a high fever, vomiting, and becomes disoriented. They speed to a hospital and one resident there says she has a medical emergency and needs a life-saving abortion. Was it really life saving? Is the partner/husband also liable? Is the doctor, if a jury later believes maybe it wasn’t necessary to save the mother’s life? What if the couple agree that, yes, we intend to have an abortion in Houston, even if it is 10 weeks after conception, but then decide Texas is too crazy and drive on to Louisiana and have the abortion (does Sec. 171.208 (3) create liability in Texas even then)?
Gravenstone
@cckids: As well as the insurance companies who pay out the reimbursement via claim. This has so many layers of potential targets it’s beyond mind boggling. Of course, the women will remain the primary victims (and targets), but the net to be cast is unbelievably broad.
sab
Will the enforcement be through regular civil courts, with juries?
Kay
@Immanentize:
I saw your earlier comment that in general people don’t understand the legal import of redefining “child” and I agree.
They’re about to find out.
Baud
@Immanentize:
Their first mistake.
Immanentize
@sab: 10,000 is the minimum in damages. What we call liquidated damages — no need to prove any actual harm. Further, the statute specifically exempts such suits rom anti-SLAPP protections There is no maximum damage amount (except perhaps Texas’ tort liability limits).
Kay
Honestly it amazed me that more women didn’t INSTANTLY recognize the screaming, red faced rage man Kavanaugh and just recoil in fucking horror.
Oh, yeah. I know him. I don’t know how you get to 30 and female without encountering ten of them.
Dan B
@laura: The “right to privacy” makes it difficult for authoritarians to exercise their GOD given right to control.
It makes it impossible to keep tabs on every activist. It allows sexual abominations. It prevents absolute police protection. It hamstrings the ascendancy of the American Gorka / Putin / Modi / Bolsonaro.
I could add Xi and Kim but they are “socialists”.
Citizen Alan
@trollhattan:
I genuinely want to know how many of them got covid and died.
Immanentize
@Baud: Don’t I know it!!
The only thing I did wrong was stay in Mississippi a day too long
Old School
@trollhattan:
I get an error message as well.
Mai Naem mobile
@Kay: it may down the road when there are enough stories that make it onto mainstream media. Especially if the woman is a pretty white blonde teenager who was raped by her brother or whatever disgusting scenario. Part of the problem is that the internet, plan b and society’s attitudes towards unwedded mothers have changed attitudes towards abortion. My bet is that plan b will become an underground drug traded like adderall has for college kids trying to pass a test.
Roger Moore
@JPL:
And their likelihood of believing this is directly proportional to the amount of melanin in the woman’s skin.
Dan B
@Yutsano: I had a great conversation with Evan Wolfson, a key force behind marriage equality, about the brilliant framing of equality instead of gay. They knew what they were doing.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: After Trump, I’ll never expect women as a bloc to prevent political/social catastrophe again. It was a hard lesson that I learned much later in life than I should have. ;)
Immanentize
Another Mangy Jay thread about political argument (first tweet):
Timill
@trollhattan: I read it as: knowingly assist an abortion to which this subchapter applies, regardless of whether you knew the subchapter applied.
So you have to know about the abortion, but it doesn’t matter whether you knew about this law.
frosty
That’s it in one sentence.
Soprano2
Way OT, but it is an open thread. Here’s a pretty good WaPo piece by an Afghan interpreter about the cultural reasons we failed in Afghanistan. None of the usual suspects will learn anything from it, but my husband could have told you this stuff. He spend 6 months teaching South Vietnamese troops shooting and tactics. He said we were stupid about their culture then. He claims to have done a cobra feast with some of them, which included drinking cobra venom! He said it made all the color drain from his vision for a minute or two. The dumb things 21 year olds will do…..
Immanentize
@Betty Cracker: I think (hope?) sexual harrassment and misogyny are diffeent than abortion. Almost every woman has experienced the former and many have come to a point where it just seems like a part of their natural lives — as long as it doesn’t end in assault. So Trump as a creep was a familiar person to most men and women. A comfortable version of not so nice.
But abortion may be different. It has been such a part of most women’s experience (generationally now) that its disappearance may resonate more than gross and boorish behavior. We shall see.
But I think we should start going after Texas’ fancy schools — both for the gun problems and the restritions on women. Also, Texas is not so great about sexual assaults and rapes reported. A large scale campaign aimed at keeping out-of state students from attending Texas elite schools just might say something to the Lege. “How could anyone send their daughter to Texas?”
It is a sexist message, but we need such things as tools now,
Roger Moore
@trollhattan:
I think they talk about two different kinds of knowledge. The first “knowingly engages in conduct” is about knowing that you’re helping a woman get an abortion. Consider helping a woman get an abortion by driving her to the doctor’s office. If you’ve discussed why she was going there, you would be knowingly helping her. If you’re a bus driver and a pregnant woman happens to take your bus on the way to get her abortion, you would not be knowingly helping her.
The second part of the “knew or should have known” is about whether the abortion is legal. Some abortions are still legal under the law, most obviously those before the 6th week of pregnancy. So if you honestly believed you were facilitating an abortion that was legal under the law, you wouldn’t be liable, even if it turned out you were wrong. The tricky part is the “should have known”; when should someone know? Are they going to demand pharmacists dispensing RU486 question women with apparently valid prescriptions interrogate their customers to make sure they’re getting it for a legitimate abortion?
Chief Oshkosh
Given the descriptions of the law I’ve read here and elsewhere, shouldn’t bounty hunters be sent after every wife of every radical evangelical preacher in Texas? We can sort out proof later, when we sue them.
Almost Retired
@trollhattan: I had the same reaction. The only way I can square it is like this: Let’s say your niece asks you for money for a “medical procedure.” You give her $100 and ask no further questions. You “knowingly” engaged in conduct that ultimately abetted an abortion (gave her $), and are thus liable even if you had no reason to believe she was heading for Planned Parenthood. By contrast, I suppose, if your niece swiped the money from your wallet while you were sleeping, you didn’t knowingly engage in any conduct at all (other than not sufficiently guarding your wallet). I guess. This is like trying to interpret the Unibomber Manifesto, which is a better-drafted document.
zhena gogolia
This sounds strangely as if it’s modeled on the Russian homosexual propaganda law. Vague enough to catch everyone.
cain
@Immanentize: Even more interesting – what happens if the jury is not even sympathetic and are ideological and a woman is put in jail for murder.
That will send some serious shockwaves across the community. You can imagine that there will be a blowback especially if said woman is part of the evangelical community.
trollhattan
@Immanentize:
If only the Duggars lived in Texas instead of Arkansas, you could get some traction on the whole “incest” thing.
Cermet
No sane person with an education will want to live in TexASS; with a brain drain companies will move away. That will be our only method to put a stake in the heart of the fascist there and the inferior court asswip3$
Hoodie
@Kay: My hope would be that this is the type of fanatical overreach (e.g., the “papers, please” laws in Arizona, the NC bathroom bill, etc.) that generates major corporate blowback. I would imagine that corporate counsel assumed that the SC would strike down this monstrosity, but the court is now fully stocked with sociopaths who have no thought for the practical implications of their ridiculous legal posturing. Like anti-mask and anti-vaccine mandate laws, etc., this is being driven by the extreme base of the GOP, not by big money corporate donors. Dallas and Houston are full of corporate HQs. This law is a potential nightmare for them, particularly the portions relating private enforcement and extended scope of per se liability. Will they get sued if one of their employees is accused of an abortion for miscarriage treatment that was paid for by the company health insurance? Will much of their talent flee the state? Sure, rich people in Texas can go out of state for abortions, but they won’t be immune from whack jobs and grifters who will solicit money from the horse paste and Jesus crowd and go after them and their employees as political/media stunts.
Kristine
@Roger Moore:
That’s one thing that gets me about this law. I’ve seen mentions of Uber drivers being sued if they drive a woman to a place where she receives an abortion. But what if she flies commercial someplace in Texas for reasons–it’s a big state. Can the airline be sued? The flight crew? What if she flies out of state? How far does this law extend?
SiubhanDuinne
@Old School:
I was just coming here to ask if anyone else is getting “Forbidden” messages. In a way it’s reassuring to know I’m not the only one (when it comes to the Intertubes, my default position is always that I’ve done something irremediably stupid).
Immanentize
@cain: There are no “personhood statutes” that have approved yet, which be a pre-requisite to a charge of murder.
Betty Cracker
@Immanentize: Maybe. That sort of rationalization is so alien to my experience that I just can’t wrap my mind around it, even though I personally know (and am related to!) women who think that way.
Frank Wilhoit
It’s not about abortion. (First Law of Modern Politics: nothing is about what it says it is about.)
It’s about the new style of “law” “enforcement”, and specifically about restricting/neutralizing the discretion of liberal prosecutors in urban areas.
With great speed (before the inevitable shocking abuses can become salient), an avalanche of copycat laws will be brought in, going far beyond abortion to whatever each state’s local scarecrow may be, and to every other imaginable and unimaginable topic: mostly targeting medical, educational, and legal professionals, then any profession ( civil engineering etc.) whose members might be capable of obstructing corruption.
Roger Moore
@cain:
The problem with this idea is that actual criminal prosecution is going to be handled by officials who are answerable to the community. That means any prosecution is going to be selective in the extreme. They aren’t going to prosecute some nice blonde, blue-eyed Evangelical girl for having a miscarriage. They’re going to take her word that’s what happened. Even if they suspected otherwise, they’d know prosecuting her would be a career-ending move. Some poor black girl, OTOH, is going to be an easy target, and they’ll be more than happy to target her to prove their anti-abortion bona fides.
Ksmiami
@Almost Retired: the upside is Texas has gifted us with a rallying cry for 2022. This affects young people the most.
Brachiator
The Supreme Court has let states effectively overturn Roe. Mission accomplished. And by leaving Roe alone, the Court lets states come up with all kinds of new ways to oppress women.
This battle was always coming. Now it’s here. So now it’s time to fight back.
Immanentize
@Roger Moore: I think the statute (2) is not written in such a way as you describe — the “knowing” applies only to the act you perform, unrelated to abortion itself (in other words, it is a pretty normal “act” requirement where “knowingly” is standing in for “voluntary”). And then, you need not know whether the aiding or abetting is related to an illegal abortion. The drafting on this is a hot mess.
JPL
The law opens the door for those who had a miscarriage, or medical emergency to harrassment. What a horrible world we live in.
MSM barely touches the subject though, and if they do they don’t mention the mental anguish it would cause.
trollhattan
In Antifa news.
FWIW Natomas is not a wealthy suburban district, far from it.
JPL
@Immanentize: Not according to the Supreme Court.
Immanentize
@Betty Cracker: It is alien to me as well, but I have also seen it in the wild! To put it another way, I can describe it, but I will not be able to understand it. And I think it was more true for my parent’s generation than for mine and certainly less so for my son’s.
Almost Retired
@Ksmiami: Ain’t that the truth? Overreach is an excellent karma-trigger!
Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA)
@Bex: You’re thinking of the cynical manipulators of a few years back, throwing just enough red meat to their base to keep them brainwashed, angry, and motivated to vote. Too many of the people making decisions now are the ones who were manipulated and brainwashed — they’re the true believers, and we’re fucked.
I do wonder if a small handful of Republicans saw midnight come and go with no ruling on this law and thought, “Oh shit.” But I don’t really care at this point how this happened. I’m just disgusted.
Immanentize
@JPL: What do you mean? I’m not tracking?
Roger Moore
@Immanentize:
You’re right, I misread it. The idea is that you must knowingly help someone get an abortion, but you don’t have to know that it’s an illegal abortion. Again, the driver of the bus the woman happens to have taken to the clinic hasn’t knowingly helped her get an abortion, but the pharmacist who dispenses her RU486 has. The pharmacist is in trouble even if they saw a valid prescription and reasonably believed the abortion was legal.
JPL
@Immanentize:And then, you need not know whether the aiding or abetting is related to an illegal abortion. The drafting on this is a hot mess.
They would have blocked the law, if they thought that. imo
piratedan
@Immanentize: well…. I imagine that we’re going to see some Lysistrata movements going into effect as well.
I find it lovely that women only have agency with the State of Texas until they are impregnated and somehow they are then transformed into property.
Barry
@MattF: “My dad, who was a physician, always knew at what hospitals abortions were available— he said you just needed to look at the surgical statistics, and it was obvious. If you’ve got the money and/or the knowledge, it’s easy.”
The trick here is that there will be tens of thousands of supporters who can sure the hospital and everybody around it.
markregan
@SFAW:
Yes, Medicaid is the principal government-financed program here, but one quick note about Medicare: it covers under-65 people with disabilities who have paid enough money into the system to qualify. So birth control pills, for example, might well be available under Medicare Part D.
brendancalling (but now very angry)
If anyone on this list knows someone in need of an abortion, I can provide free lodging in Vermont.
No questions asked—back in 97 My then-gf needed one, and we were grateful for the option. I’ve never forgotten that experience, and I’m always here for a woman in need.
truly disgusted today.
Immanentize
@Roger Moore: Yes, but — what if the woman getting into an Uber says (or better yet puts it in the driver notes) “I need a ride to the abortion clinic! Are there discounts?”
brendancalling
Got modded!
Immanentize
@JPL: No, the Supreme Court does not care about hot messes — explicitly. They wait to see what gloss the lower State court will put on it first. Unless it is so vague or overbroad that nothing could fix it. One problem in our discussion is that we are mostly considering how a criminal law is handled, but this is a civil law.
Immanentize
@piratedan: transformed into property … of their fetus. With the State as guardian.
H.E.Wolf
Just called my 2 Senators and my Rep to urge passage of the Women’s Health Protection Act.
List of co-sponsors is here: if one of them is yours, extra points for thanking them for their leadership on this issue.
https://actforwomen.org/the-womens-health-protection-act/
Calling one’s elected officials is a small, concrete action – and anyone of any gender can do it. (www.FaxZero.com is an alternative to phoning.)
This is a great opportunity for men to act as good allies by speaking to those with the power to effect change. Male voices get heard!
Roger Moore
@H.E.Wolf:
I should give my rep (Judy Chu) extra props for being a lead sponsor.
Omnes Omnibus
@Immanentize: I read it as you did. Again, the drafting is so bad that I don’t think the law can survive.
Mike in NC
Republican war on women continues. We had a sexual predator in the White House for four years. Maybe they should consult with the Taliban for a few more ideas.
Ocotillo
@Immanentize:
Not the same topic but I have thought black athletes should stay away from SEC schools as a way of calling attention to the racism of the state’s these schools are home to. Hit the goobers where they hurt, roll tide.
@Immanentize:
E.
@Roger Moore: I have been saying this for awhile. Thomas and Alito are both on record saying they dislike the Commerce Clause caselaw and believe it should be reversed. So they need three more and I believe they have them. The Commerce Clause is why we have things like federal regulations of labor and industry, public lands, the Clean Air Act, safety regulations. This will be a very, very different country if that gets turned around.
Kent
As a former Texan I am pessimistic that the Texas GOP will ever pay a political price for this. The state is too fucking gerrymandered, the only threat most of them have is from the farther right.
And there just aren’t enough people with political clout who will be affected. Affluent women will just fly to Denver or Albuquerque for abortions, and the various chemical alternatives will be available for those with the ability to navigate the internet.
Personally I think the only way to beat back this sort of thing is at the Federal level where Democrats already have all the authority they need to do so. Sinema and Manchin will be an obstacle to any legislation. But I expect there are things that Biden’s FDA can do to preserve and guarantee access to pharmaceuticals. Including perhaps authorizing mail-order prescriptions across state lines. I’m vague about what the laws currently say and what regulatory authority the FDA has here, but I think it is substantial.
Kent
The Commerce Clause is also what prohibits say Oregon from prohibiting Wal-Mart from entering the state and prevents liberal states from doing a lot of regulation of national corporations.
mrmoshpotato
@Kathleen:
Exactly. And enough stupid, selfish children responded with “Fuck you, Hillary! You can’t scare us into voting for you!”
Stupid, stupid, selfish children.
Roger Moore
@Kent:
Only if you care about intellectual consistency. If you care only about giving corporations more power, it’s perfectly possible to overturn a federal regulation because it treats interstate commerce too broadly and a state regulation that tries to do the same thing because it goes against the commerce clause. Just watch them.
Betty Cracker
@Kent: Interesting idea about expanding mail-order access. I lack the regulatory and medical expertise to understand whether it’s feasible, but it sounds worth exploring to me. The Pollitt column in The Nation linked in the original post lists a drug that’s already available online and OTC in Mexico that may suddenly become very popular.
Kent
I doubt it. First of all, it wouldn’t work. Texas’ elite pubic schools don’t get that many out-of-state students. And the big private schools are mostly MAGA anyway (Baylor, SMU, TCU, etc.).
Second, the Texas lege is never going to be affected by outside influence. Due to gerrymandering, their only threat is from primary candidates who are even further right. Trying to get changes at the state level in Texas is a fool’s errand, whether you are talking about abortion, health care in general, education, voting rights, environmental protection, or gun control. Just not going to happen.
Personally I think the only real avenue forward is at the Federal level where Democrats have all the power they need to make this go away if they actually had the will to work for legislative and regulatory solutions.
For example, they could probably make some small amendment to the ACA that makes it illegal for anyone to interfere with anyone’s right to partake in ACA-authorized health care. So that anyone who tries to sue someone under the Texas law could find themselves inside a Federal courtroom facing criminal penalties.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Roger Moore:
Not that we shouldn’t try, but tbh even if we managed to do that, many conservatives, at least on Twitter, have openly said they would consider the SCOTUS to be illegitimate if it was expanded and ignore it’s rulings
sab
@H.E.Wolf: Wow. Tim Ryan was one of the two Ohio rep co-sponsors.
Ksmiami
@Kent: we need to economically kill Texas. Boycott the firms domiciled there. It’s the only way. If the state wants to be a third world shit hole, let them feel the full effects
Westyny
@Dan B: If everyone’s an incel then no one is an incel. . .
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@mrmoshpotato:
The thing is, even if Hillary had won in 2016, the two seats on the SCOTUS that Trump filled, Kavanaugh and Gorsuch, would have likely remained vacant. Dems would’ve likely been killed in the 2018 midterms. This goes far deeper than that
Kent
Oh stop the hand-wringing. Federal law is enforced by Federal authorities who have plenty of power to take down conservative jackasses who violate the law. Besides, what are they going to do? Refuse to get an abortion if Roe is legalized? Refuse to vote if voting rights are expanded? Refuse to get gay-married if gay marriage is maintained?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Kent:
I don’t think I’m hand-wringing. I just think this will have consequences that go beyond those things you mention. The rule of law will break down further
Personally, I don’t think the right-wing is giving us many options when it comes to dealing with them. Their leaders constantly invoke inflammatory, violent rhetoric, as we saw with Madison Cawthorne the other day.
Frankly, I agree with you that there’s a lot we can do at the federal level, but the GOP is doing it’s damnest to make sure we’ll never control the federal government again. Plus, demographic changes. I know the John Lewis Voting Rights Act was passed by the House recently, but I don’t know what’s going on the Senate side. I haven’t heard Manchin or Sinema change their minds re: voting rights.
I think they’re both incredibly corrupt and don’t give a damn about democracy
And even if it were passed tomorrow, would it be go into effect to make a difference for the 2022 midterms?
Brachiator
OT. Have there been comments or a post about the insane new Texas gun laws going into effect today?
Guns have more rights than women in Texas.
I am having to post and run, with little time to read all the recent good stuff. Busy day.
Another Scott
The dumpster fire of new Texas laws continues…
https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1433066759964090375
Cheers,
Scott.
Old School
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Three, but with Hillary as president, Kennedy wouldn’t have retired, so there would only be two vacancies.
Kay
@Mai Naem mobile:
It won’t be an abortion that does it. It will be a pregnancy.
This is what I’m saying over and over. They are pregnancy laws.
The hypothetical isn’t a 13 year old rape victim. The hypothetical is a 40 year old woman with a higher risk pregnancy. Take the laws out of the abortion box and just read the text, because they aren’t in that box.
What’s the covered condition? Pregnancy. All of them.
Kent
No, it’s not the only way. Democrats hold the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives. They could pass a new Federal law that enshrines Roe into statute and makes every red state abortion regulation null and void. You just need to get Sinema and Manchin on board. And as wrong-headed as those two might be, they are still at least an order of magnitude more reasonable than the most sane GOP member of the Texas legislature.
In fact, in my opinion as a former Texan, I think FEDERAL action is the only way to deal with this. Boycotts are fucking pointless. You are talking about companies like AT&T, American Airlines, Dell, Tesla, Exxon, 7-11, Frito-lay and hundreds more. The pressure needs to be applied to the DEM members of Congress who do have the power to fix this unlike say AT&T.
Martin
@Kent: So, this is the avenue that CA is going down. Although abortion is legal everywhere here, the institutions that train abortion doctors/nurses have strongly been advocating for more chemical abortions as being safer. In the EU more tha ⅔ of abortions are chemical. The new mandate for public unis to provide abortion services lean into this. We don’t have the facilities for surgical, but we can do chemical with existing staffing. Staff will take a class from UCSF on how to administer a chemical abortion, or to refer for surgical if surgical is necessary. PAs can administer.
The FDA earlier this year approved abortion prescriptions through telemedicine, and state law cannot regulate USPS. Presumably individuals in Texas could get a telemedicine prescription from a CA doctor, and get the medication through USPS. TX law still allows their neighbor to sue them, but I’d think this method would be pretty hard to discover.
There’s a bunch of startup clinics here in CA such as Hey Jane. They’re virtual clinics, but are operating only in certain states. Not sure if that will change after the FDA ruling which was just a few months ago.
Ksmiami
@Kent: I understand but there has to be a multi-pronged approach- I mean what smart women graduates will want to set foot in the state? The companies in TX need to be bled out
Omnes Omnibus
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Tell me how that works. Are we declared all courts illegitimate? Just Federal courts? The Supremes? All the decisions or just the ones we don’t like?
Kent
@Martin: Yes, the smart and clever way to do this is to provide whatever general legislative authority is necessary (if any) via innocuous technical legislation to the ACA that makes no mention of abortion or women’s health care at all but just gives the FDA or HHS the necessary authority to act. So basically no one notices what is happening. Last minute technical fixes and shit like that gets added to legislation all the time in the dead of night. Then you ram it down their throats via new executive branch regulations.
Another Scott
You know it’s coming if the GQP has their way. “Stay at the lovely Drumpf Tower!!1”
(sigh)
Cheers,
Scott.
Kent
I’m not saying you don’t try to make Texas pay.
I’m just saying that if you actually want to fix anything going on in Texas (or any other part of the Confederacy) you need to do it at the Federal level. That was the case with slavery, Jim Crow, school segregation, voting rights, marriage equity, and everything else.
Martin
This is going to be a nightmare for employers in Texas. Good luck having any employee tell you about their pregnancy before 20 weeks. If they miscarry, they’ll never talk about it ever. You’ll just have this devastated employee, and no way to help them. Forget any employee support services you might offer – can’t trust them. The law mandates that they lie to you.
SiubhanDuinne
@H.E.Wolf:
That list mixes up two Johnsons. Eddie Bernice Johnson is from TX, not GA. Hank Johnson is from GA, not TX.
Another Scott
We all knew this was coming, right? I mean, it was obvious…
Grr…
(via IamHappyToast)
Cheers,
Scott.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Steeplejack (phone): I am saying they are phoning it in and not giving the damn about the implications. And that’s even worse than a deliberate conspiracy because all kinds of crazy things can come out of it. “No one could have foreseen that that careful reading of the ruling demands the execution of any woman who menstruates without a pregnancy. Maybe the justice shouldn’t have wrote ir with crayons during a bender with a bottle of jack” kind of crazy nonsense.
EDIT And Martin just pointed how this plays with some woman who miscarries. Yes, the Conservatards are real deep thinkers.
Martin
@Kent: Boycotts aren’t the only economic mechanism. What I just described is another – it’s a mechanism to shift medical spending to CA. And it won’t be limited to abortion, it’ll be birth control and spread out from there.
Employees need to pressure employers that have locations in Texas. Apple has been a very progressive employer in terms of benefits, but can Apple now be sued by providing health insurance that covers abortions? That’s a requirement in CA and now makes them a target of litigation in Texas. Employees should speak out and demand that Apple move those jobs from Texas to other states.
The boycotts don’t usually have a direct financial impact, but it can turn into a PR nightmare for them, and I’m good with that. Look at how much shit Toyota took over a few tens of thousands of donations to Jan 6 lawmakers.
Kent
@Another Scott: so start anonymously reporting abortions by any and every female member of the Texas GOP as well as all the fundie churches that back them. Flood the zone.
WaterGirl
@H.E.Wolf: I just added that to the Action Alert area at the top in the sidebar. I also added the link to find contact information for elected officials.
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Scott: Turn it over to the K-pop kids.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kent: Hey, I recommended that way upthread.
JPL
@Another Scott: Is that real?
WaterGirl
I just pulled the post I had put up – obviously no one has energy or interest in anything but this today.
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
What happened to the Four Directions thread?
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
You answered, I asked. Hope there’s an opportunity to repost later, hopefully without irrelevancies like Roger Stone’s banishment from Grinder or whatever it was.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Brachiator: Combine that with the anti mask laws and no woman capable of bearing children will want to step foot on Texas lest she be falsely accused of being a child murderer and sounds like Texas economic future ant that bright. Companies there are going to get tired of stupid law suits and not being able to hire staff pretty quickly.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Kent: yes, that’s what I was thinking.
Another Scott
@JPL: Looks like it.
Since the new law, as I understand it, involves civil actions, everyone anywhere could create such a website for every ambulance chaser that practices in Texas to get their lawsuits going.
It’s totally predictable…
Cheers,
Scott.
Roger Moore
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
I was thinking of the district and appeals courts. I think they’re less likely to stir up a lot of controversy, and they really do need to be expanded to keep up with case load.
SiubhanDuinne
In case you’re interested in jamming the system, here is the reporting form from the website of Human Coalition Action, a Texas website set up so you can conveniently inform on your neighbors and friends. I think we all know what to do …
https://prolifewhistleblower.com/anonymous-form/
JPL
@Another Scott: We live in strange times. A friend mentioned that she never envisioned returning to the sixties, and I said what happened in Texas is worse. ugh
NotMax
@WaterGirl
This word obviously you use…
Another Scott
Meanwhile, … Phys.org:
Changing the direction of the ship of state is a long, difficult process. We’re heading in the right direction. We will suffer setbacks and must fight against the monsters. But we need to see the progress we’re making as well and keep pushing forward.
Vote Team D every time. Vote the monsters out. We can’t ever let up because they’re always at the door.
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@Roger Moore: This is true. CJ Roberts has even testified about it.
Another Scott
@SiubhanDuinne:
Cheers,
Scott.
Almost Retired
@WaterGirl: Ahh, good to know. I tried to comment, but too late. I take back all the cussing I directed at Firefox, then.
Elie
@MattF:
Most abortions can be handled as office procedures now… or medically using medications — if the gestation is low enough. Its the later gestation that requires more “surgery” — though its not typically performed in the hospital. None of these would be in any in-patient surgical statistics for a hospital.
Hoodie
@SiubhanDuinne: Jack Mehoff will be very busy
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@SiubhanDuinne: So what do have say to me. Something about I am not meeting your approval?
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
So we should kowtow to fountains spouting sh*t online? Wallace stood in the schoolhouse door, too. For a hot few minutes. This is nothing new.
Elie
I feel just terrible anymore… we are being dragged into the dark ages not only on abortion, but all the malignant ignoramuses who want to spead COVID to as many people as possible either by avoiding vaccination or not masking. I am unhappy to say that I HATE these people. I never thought that I would be here, but that is where I am… The lies, the hate… I will never trust many people in this country again…
Almost Retired
@SiubhanDuinne: Thanks for the link to the anonymous abort-o-rama neighbor-reporting website. You’ve unleashed my inner eighth grader. Mr. Savak McStasi wants to know why Cecelia Abbott left the Governor’s mansion with a suitcase and a distended abdomen.
debbie
@SiubhanDuinne:
LOL, I know I do!
Can we rat out men who couldn’t keep their damn pants zipped? Does that count?
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: I scheduled it for tomorrow.
trollhattan
@Almost Retired:
A hankerin’ for adventure and some bad Thai food.
debbie
@Immanentize:
NPRreported this morning that it is six weeks from the woman’s last period. That means dick shit. It presumes the woman became pregnant as soon as she ceased bleeding. ? ? ? ? ?ETA: Actually, it was the BBC. I listen to too much.
JPL
@debbie: As was stated earlier, by Yarrow I think, since a man caused the pregnancy, they can be sued for causing the abortion.
That was easy.
WaterGirl
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I took it down because there was only one comment in something like 30 minutes.
MontyTheClipArtMongoose
@JPL: they can take my iud from my cold dead uterus
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: “I saw [insert GOP lawmaker here] giving money to a women. I am almost positive he told her to have an abortion.”
debbie
@JPL:
Good, that’s how I will be filling out the forms.
TriassicSands
@Kay:
It’ll be interesting to see if this impacts any Democratic voting at all.
The party of poor turnout has a poor turnout history, in general. And that doesn’t count all the Americans who “should” be registered and voting Democrats.
mrmoshpotato
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): True, but I’m still gonna vent. :)
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Or “The way I saw him looking at her, I knew he was gonna get her pregnant.”
MontyTheClipArtMongoose
@trollhattan: “you don’t want to go down that path. you don’t want to hunt a [wo]man. gets you to a very dark place”.
– frank reynolds
debbie
@Kay:
Well, there was that march with all those pussy hats…
Wakeshift
@sixthdoctor:
ill look for that one, thanks.
Frank Herbert deftly hinted at this, and then his son blurted it out later.
MCA1
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: The bounty hunter thing is the potential Death Star thermal exhaust port of this whole thing, though. Yes, up until now, upper middle class white folks found a way to get around even the more restrictive laws in place, as you note.
But now, if a young woman at a corporation in Dallas disappears for a couple days and seems a little sad when she comes back, or if a guy at some country club in The Woodlands mentions that his daughter just had to fly to Denver for a d&c, all it takes is one person incentivized by the prospect of $10k to turn their life into a living hell. The minute someone who’s less than three degrees of separation from Wendy Cruz gets their ass hauled into court under this law, it’s done for.
As always, Republicans don’t think anything is ever a problem until it affects them personally. But the irony of this law is that the Texas state legislature is actually asking people to make it affect anyone, including the very people at the top of the power structure who tend to be Republicans. The empathy deficit will be cleared up in a hurry as soon as a new ambulance chaser subspecies arises, focused on this bounty, and finding that the student health centers at SMU and UT are good sources of leads.
Even without a successful legal challenge, I’ll be shocked if this law is still around 3 years from now. In addition to the above, it’s a gift to every Democrat in the state, especially those in suburban Dallas and Houston, where no more than a tiny minority are so radical as to actually support it.
Just trying to see the silver linings here. Doesn’t negate the fact that such a dystopian piece of garbage has been made into law in the first place, but I have little doubt that the overreaching will lead to a positive backlash.
debbie
@trollhattan:
The Court’s letting it go through is what’s shocking me.
mrmoshpotato
@Old School:
Do we know why Justice Kennedy retired? Because that was sudden and weird.
Another Scott
@TriassicSands: Virginia statewide-office elections are in November.
He’s right.
We’ll know soon…
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@mrmoshpotato:
Kennedy supported abortion rights in any event.
MontyTheClipArtMongoose
@Nelle: while the gqp asks the telecoms to ignore 1/6/21 subpoenas, any google search for d&c is a thought crime
Captain C
@mrmoshpotato: “Anthony, your son has been really, really good to me and my, ah, business partners abroad. It would be a shame if someone who doesn’t understand these things found out about it.”
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: “He looks like the kind person who gets women pregnant and then tells them to get an abortion. And to good, god fearing white women at that.”
SiubhanDuinne
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I have no idea what you’re talking about, sorry.
mrmoshpotato
@Kent: Also, photograph every piece of fruit and every vegetable. I hope they like individual photos of onions and potatoes.
Here’s a can of chipotle peppers in adobo sauce! I’d like to report this boneless skinless chicken thigh!
NotMax
Quote time. From 1981:
MontyTheClipArtMongoose
@sab: i am thinking wikileaks/assange type breaches of epic/other records keepers
ljt
I follow DesignMom on twitter. She’s an American Mormon living in Paris (she and her family move into old houses and renovate–she blogs and tweets about their experiences). Surprisingly, I follow her for her political views and righteous rants. She just reposted her original tweet thread on abortion, first posted in 2018 (summarized on her blog here). Well worth the read.
trollhattan
@MCA1: Heck, mean girl retribution alone will trigger thousands.
Mary G
Disgusting:
I just to slap everybody who said boo about Hillary in 2016, especially Matt Lauer, Susan Sarandon, BrieBrieJoy, and Mark Halperin.
mrmoshpotato
@Omnes Omnibus: “I saw uterus-botherer Shithead Ted fleeing to Cancun!”
Baud
VeniceRiley
@Elie: Have a friend in Europewho went back to Minnesota last week to visit relatives. Says everything has changed, especially the people. never coming back to the USA.
Another Scott
SCOTUSBlog.com:
(Emphasis added.)
Super Genius!!1
Here’s hoping it blows up in their faces.
Grrr…
It’s worth a click over to read the whole thing.
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@mrmoshpotato: Picture of a toe. “Does this look infected?”
trollhattan
@Mary G:
Good lord, those maniacs get their golden (poppy) parachute.
H.E.Wolf
Thank you!
And many thanks to SuibhanDuinne for uncovering the funny business with the Johnsons. ;)
(Eddie Bernice Johnson is awesome. https://ebjohnson.house.gov/about/meet-eddie-bernice)
TriassicSands
From Wikipedia:
A nationwide fund for travel expenses from Texas to and from Canada with routing through other states to obscure the trail?
I guess that would mean that the mail of all Texas females of reproductive age would have to be read by the Texas AG. Perhaps, a physical exam and an exit permission slip will be necessary for any woman of reproductive age who wants to leave the state. Or maybe just tracking devices?
trollhattan
@NotMax: Goldwater saw what Reagan was doing and did not want. Too late, but even he knew what was coming.
mrmoshpotato
@Mary G:
There’s a line.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: That may have been the person whose comment on the Four Directions thread that you referred to.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Let’s not make it easy for them. Trolling. Lawsuits. Civil disobedience. Our side should be good at all of these.
Miss Bianca
@NotMax:
Goldwater? Who the hell was *that* Commie?/
ETA: Christ, it’s depressing to read those words and realize that the guy who wrote them 40 years ago was too extreme to win a general election in his day, and would be considered a liberal squish by today’s GOP standards.
mrmoshpotato
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh, the amount of bare asses they’ll be looking at… ???
MomSense
I’ve been thinking that being a tour guide could be fun. I could take women on scenic bus tours in Canada.
evodevo
@MattF:
Yep…pre-Roe I worked in medical records in the local hospital…the # of D&Cs done every year in a town with a population of ~8000 was amazing…
TriassicSands
@MomSense:
Precautions will be necessary. Any Texas female of child-bearing age will be suspect should they attempt to enter Canada.
Baud
They were likely going to overrule Roe in the Mississippi case anyway. Politically speaking, it’s probably better that they were impatient and overruled it outside of the normal process.
TriassicSands
@Miss Bianca:
Goldwater 2021: Primaried for failure to comply with accepted doctrine.
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
Possibly. In any case, I didn’t see why a dedicated thread on Four Directions and Fair Fight needed to be sullied in the very first comment with the likes of Roger Stone.
And I do hope you’ll repost it at some point.
burnspbesq
@Betty Cracker:
Thankfully, virtually all of the population growth in Texas between the 2010 and 2020 censuses was in the 20 biggest counties (which went >60 percent for Biden), and the vast majority was among POC. It’s going to be increasingly difficult to perpetuate white majority rule going forward.
In the meantime, however …
FelonyGovt
I really hope this motivates young women to vote and to become politically active. I think our only hope is backlash or Federal action, as someone suggested earlier.
burnspbesq
@Mary G:
Ain’t over until the time for DOJ to appeal runs out. Time to bury Garland in letters, emails, etc.
Another Scott
@Another Scott:
Presumably https://twitter.com/scotusblog will be the first to let us know if/when the SCOTUS actually releases any sort of decision or announcement about this case.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: Yeah, i just pulled the post because i want people to see the information and the video. So it will go up tomorrow.
The Truffle
@FelonyGovt: That is probably what it will take.
Non sequitur: where is Beto? He should be making hay over this given the state is turning purple.
Baud
@The Truffle:
Baud
@The Truffle:
prostratedragon
I can imagine women doing all kinds of business travel from Texas being open to harassment under this law, one reason that its life might turn out to be as short as it is miserable.
@mrmoshpotato:
I’d like to report this boneless skinless chicken thigh!
And well you should!
Princess Leia
@Ksmiami:
THIS
The Truffle
What are the chances of the federal government codifying Roe?
Kay
Someone should collect all these scolding, patronizing lectures in one place. This dope wrote this one AFTER Roberts gutted the Voting Rights Act. Does he need an anvil to fall on his head? When might he get it?
Can we at least be spared the gaslighting lectures? Stop lecturing us. You’re always wrong.
Kent
Yes, the fix was in. https://www.businessinsider.com/anthony-kennedy-son-loaned-president-trump-over-a-billion-dollars-2018-6
germy
J R in WV
@VeniceRiley:
Perhaps as angry as my Wife is? Who helped raise funding for travel to NY or such liberal locales for women seeking an abortion back in pre-Roe times… she is speechless angry!
WaterGirl
@Baud: Baud, the links in Beto’s tweets don’t work. :-(
Baud
@WaterGirl:
I deleted some of them because I was in moderation.
Another Scott
@Kent: There was obviously a skeevy connection there, but the power dynamic seems backwards.
Son has goods on TFG, so father retires to have former clerk take his place and undo his important decisions??
This VF take seems more plausible to me. They flattered him and convinced him that everything would be fine because “his boys” would be on the court(s). He didn’t actually care about his legacy beyond that.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
VeniceRiley
@J R in WV: Yes. That angry. hats off to her!
Another Scott
ICYMI, the Hoarse Whisperer is furious at Garland and the DoJ for not using the bully pulpit to attack the SCOTUS right now.
https://twitter.com/TheRealHoarse/status/1433186898374180864
Since this kind of thing (not announcing any decision at all, while running the process through the shadow docket) is extremely unusual, and it’s not clear whether a SCOTUS statement/decision is coming or not, it’s probably prudent for them to wait a while.
But, we’ll see.
Cheers,
Scott.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Omnes Omnibus:
Especially report the “you can’t tell me what to do” rural conservatives who smoke and drink while pregnant. That’s child endangerment, right?
Omnes Omnibus
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
burnspbesq
I know this is mean, but I hope every Republican member of the Texas Lege who has teenage daughters gets to see them knocked up. Live with the consequences of your evil actions, fuckers.
J R in WV
@Immanentize:
I do not understand what you have said — for the benefit of the non-lawyers here could you expand this sentence into a few paragraphs? Thanks in advance…
Jerzy Russian
@Kay:
In case this question is not rhetorical, yes he does.
J R in WV
@Soprano2:
Oh, come on! No married woman needs birth control, they’re supposed to bear children every time they have intercourse. And everyone knows that IUDs cause an abortion every month!!! //
Omnes Omnibus
@J R in WV: Since we left Afghanistan, IUDs aren’t really an issue anymore.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: well played. Though I’m still mad at you for bringing up the Rule Against Perpetuities before I had the chance.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: I strive to be THAT guy.
cain
@prostratedragon: Imagine anybody who has an axe to grind, some woman CEO or others goes to do business in Texas and ends up in court for something she did in another state.
burnspbesq
@Martin:
Tim Cook isn’t going to have much pull with Texas Republicans, the vast majority of whom are rabidly homophobic.
Apple has too many sunk costs (one big campus and a second under construction) to pull out of Austin.
Jean
If you donate to Planned Parenthood, is that aiding and abetting abortion?
The Truffle
@MCA1: Positive backlash? Please let it happen. I am so sick of this shit.
J R in WV
@Gravenstone:
Yes. Suppose you are flying from east coast to west coast along the southern tier, on Delta.Someone on your aircraft [goes crazy; has a heart attack; attacks the cockpit, etc, etc] and the aircraft lands in Houston/Dallas/Austin/etc, etc where you have a medical emergency of your own. Stroke/cardiac/pneumonia/Covid…
Then you discover you are 7 weeks pregnant, and no doctor is willing to touch you lest they be liable for that $10,000++ Civil penalty…
Alternatively, you live in TX and fly on Delta to San Francisco, where you have a spontaneous abortion at dinner. Is Delta liable for $10,000+++ for transporting you to the scene of your medical emergency? Deep pockets there!!!
This is terrible, and is one more reason I will never enter Texas willingly!!
J R in WV
@TriassicSands:
Another Scott
The ruling is out – 5:4. The 5 resorted to sophistry, as expected.
Sotomayor brings the fire in her dissent.
Grrr…
Cheers,
Scott.
Starfish
@Cacti: What @hrprogressive is doing is the height of stupidity.
Republican justices have done a really terrible thing, and the go to answer for some people is to attack Democrats.
If the only thing you know how to do is attack Democrats, then I have news for you, you are a Republican.
You clowns need to either quit running your mouths and get to work or at the very least stop donating to the Republican Party through your constant exuberant attacks on Democrats.
Starfish
@Roger Moore: Hardly anyone knows they are pregnant before six weeks. No abortions are legal under this law.
The most accurate pregnancy tests administered by doctors can tell you are pregnant at around 11 days. Most are not that accurate.
Women confuse implantation spotting with their periods.