I really don’t understand what folks like Manchin, Sinema, and the band of dipshits in the house are trying to accomplish by blocking everything.
Is it really just all about donor money?
Reader Interactions
169Comments
Comments are closed.
Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.
If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.
You cannot shame the shameless.
Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.
The words do not have to be perfect.
Only Democrats have agency, apparently.
An almost top 10,000 blog!
Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.
The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.
Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?
New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.
Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.
In my day, never was longer.
Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?
… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP
Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.
People are complicated. Love is not.
The worst democrat is better than the best republican.
The revolution will be supervised.
A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals
🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵
Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?
A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.
J.
Yes.
rikyrah
Sinema- for sure
Brendan in NC
I suspect it’s a few things:
1. Donor Money
2. Can’t let ANYTHING remotely progressive pass
3. Managing expectations – Can’t let the people see that Congress can pass bills.
4. Need nothing to pass so they can get re-elected…I know, right?
Searcher
@Brendan in NC: Metagaming – they don’t think anything is passing regardless so they want to appear to be on the winning side.
Gozer
Venal and stupid.
One wonders, how many of them have a connection to Haaaaaaarvard. ‘Cause this kind of stupidity has to be a product of “elite” education.
Kropacetic
C’mon, guys, it’s so nice of Manchinema to give the Dems the appearance of Senate control.
lowtechcyclist
I don’t know whether donor money is just a big part of it for both, or the whole enchilada. But for both of them, ‘a big part’ is the minimum.
snoey
Manchin seems to be a true believer in the national debt in the sense that some day in international Vinnie is going to show and break is great grand kids kneecaps if the don’t pay up.
John S.
Yes. And if politicians had to wear suits emblazoned with the logos of their donors like NASCAR drivers (the bigger the logo, the more money they spent), everyone would be able to see that was the case.
ETA: Or tattooed to their face like Post Malone. Here’s an artist rendering of McConnell.
Betty
It needs to be called sabotage. There should be ads by outside groups. Sinema’s voters are enraged. Looks like she will take the money and move on unless she makes a u-turn. Manchin doesn’t seem to have to answer to his voters.
Searcher
@Kropacetic: I mean, Schumer holding the gavel is objectively better than McConnell, even if nothing gets done.
Patrianakos
I suspect it’s not so much donors’ campaign contributions as their ability to hire the “moderates” as lobbyists once they lose their primaries.
Steeplejack (phone)
Dredged up from overnight:
White & Gold Purgatorian
Power. It’s a hell of a drug.
Tony Jay
@John S.:
There’s a joke about AOC’s dress at the Met Gala and bleeding-edge trends in there somewhere, but I’m too busy to look for it.
Kropacetic
That may be true for the moment. But their actions are making it far more likely that McConnell will get that gavel back.
Ruckus
Money. It’s always about money for some people. The most important item in the world, the holy grail of life, money and who has more of it. For them it is the measure of society/humanity, money and who has more of it and who controls it. There is a reason the golden calf was such a big deal.
Butter Emails!
Maybe Manchin isn’t as fond of his houseboat as rumoured and is hoping some pissed off liberals send it to the bottom so he can collect sympathy and the insurance money?
Sinema seems to have either completely miscalculated how to appeal to the independent voters in her state without pissing off her primary voters (her numbers suck with both groups) or she’s in salary negotiations for post Senate positions as a lobbyist and Fox News token “liberal”.
Skepticat
Yes, and being in the spotlight seems to warm cold (or teeny-tiny) hearts. This seems to be a power and an ego trip for both of them.
Kay
Them dragging it out and trashing Biden’s agenda is hurting us for the midterms. They’re bad for the Democratic Party.
Carlo
They’re all grown-ups, and professional pols — ok, not Synema, who’s a ditz and an amateur, but the others are. There’s almost certainly some kind of back-room deal partly worked out, partly playing out, such that in the end everybody gets x% of a loaf, with x to be revealed. Even Synema, bless her rock-filled little noggin.
NotMax
Manchin represents the state where you live. It’s entirely within your purview to call up his D.C. or his local office and ask.
Suzanne
Sinema wants to be famous, I think.
Butter Emails!
@NotMax:
Sure. And then they’ll either lie or point at one or more of Manchin’s wrong headed op eds.
Kropacetic
It takes a hell of a set of steel-girded loins to hamstring your own majority, representing millions more votes than the opposition, to immediately benefit the agenda of people trying to cheat their way into permanent minority rule.
Kay
Manchin’s behavior on voting rights is really reprehensible. I get that he’s bought and paid for but he couldn’t even manage to get a watered down voting law passed?
He’s not good at anything other than running his mouth. Six months of listening to this asshole yammer on and on and he delivers nothing.
Bad for the Democratic Party. If they can’t deliver on voting rights they should just go home.
lowtechcyclist
@Kay:
And, as Josh Marshall has been repeatedly pointing out, bad for the chances of the centrists themselves. If Biden fails to get much done, everybody in >D+7 districts will still be in Congress in 2023. But the centrists are mostly in more marginal districts, and when our more infrequent voters are disappointed and stay home, they’ll lose.
This obviously doesn’t apply to Manchinema who are both next up for election in 2024, but it definitely applies to the handful of centrists in the House. Why they think this is their best play is beyond me.
lowtechcyclist
@Suzanne:
She’s famous, alright. We really didn’t need a Dem answer to Sarah Palin, but there she is.
Peale
It really is driving me over the edge. Seriously, if we default because of Senate privileges and can’t staff because of Senate prerogatives, we need to remove the senators. What we should be debating is whether it’s too cruel to boil them in oil or whether we’d be satisfied with just beating them with sticks until they ran away.
henrythefifth
I’m with you. I have no idea what Sinema is trying to accomplish in the Senate (nothing, it appears). Manchin could be supporting robust programs/infrastructure investments that would totally benefit people in his state. He could take credit for it (and he loves to do that), so I don’t get him either.
Baud
@Kay:
Voting rights is tied to filibuster reform and that affects Manchin’s donors.
dervy scram
well, at least you admit you don’t understand. others just blather GOP/RU created talking points. see, republicans REALLY want to those Senate seats, but they cannot do it without help from Dem “allies” who freely and openly bash Dems.
lowtechcyclist
@John S.:
This needs to be a thing. Someone needs to do this for every Congressperson and major-party Congressional candidate. That’s the sort of thing that would stick in people’s minds way more than any published donor list.
kindness
Money and future monies have to be part of the dipshitism.
What is the W. Virginia press saying about Manchin?
Kay
@Baud:
I didn’t think I could be more disappointed in this preening, ego-driven phony but I thought he would actually accomplish something on voting rights. Nope. Completely fucking useless other than running his mouth.
I hope his stupid boat sinks and the donors have to wade to shore.
Starfish
@Betty: Someone should try this as Sinema’s entrance music. Please.
Matt McIrvin
They believe that when the second Trump dictatorship comes they will be rewarded.
Why they believe that, I don’t know.
Betty Cracker
@Patrianakos: I think you’re right about them angling for a lucrative post-congressional lobbying career. Manchin and Sinema are allied with some of the very worst people in DC, including No Labels and Mark Penn, so of course they’re obstructing anything remotely inconvenient for donors.
The congress-to-donor-lobbying-group pipeline loomed large in Manchin’s No Labels-organized call with donors earlier this year. He was urging donors to pressure outgoing GOP colleagues rather than discussing his own future career, but Manchin was super-open about how it works: you’ll be paying them big bucks after the term ends, so lean on them for votes now.
Kay
@Matt McIrvin:
I think they’re deliberately trying to lose the senate. They prefer to be in the minority. That way they don’t have to work at all and they can be full time cable tv stars.
Gravenstone
And post-political office sinecures.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
Everyone who complains about the longest serving members of Congress and how old they are need to think about that. It reminds me of “term limits” which turned into a fucking corruption engine because they did a term and then went directly to working for the entities they served in that term.
There are worse things than staying in Congress for decades. They can stay a little while and then go cash out. If this becomes a pattern we’re screwed.
Baud
@Kay:
I was more hopeful too because he has surprised me in the past. I’ll still wait to see where things land before finalizing my opinion of him, but my patience has worn thin.
Betty Cracker
@dervy scram: So what’s the solution? Pretend like corrupt, obstructionist Dems aren’t corrupt obstructionists, thereby giving truth to the lie that there’s no difference between the two parties?
Maybe it’s better to make it clear that there are maybe a dozen Dem obstructionists in both chambers of Congress rather than letting people like Manchin, Sinema, Gottheimer, etc., represent “The Dems.” We could try something new and go with that.
Peale
deleted because I’m done
terraformer
Unless and until we have real campaign finance reform, we will continue to suffer from the power of money and its hold on politicians.
To think that donations to politicians doesn’t impact congressional voting is the height of naivete.
Kay
Another book. The political books are really a whole new grift sector. They don’t tell us anything while it’s happening- they wait to sell it to us in their book.
If you’re paying for a newspaper and buying a reporter’s book you’re paying twice for what they should have told you the first time you paid for it.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Good point, though I do worry that we have a gerontocracy problem. What’s needed to solve the corruption problem are laws with teeth that prevent people from cashing out. I suspect such measures would be broadly popular across the parties among voters. Among the people we need to get such laws enacted, not so much.
WereBear
It’s always love or money and Republicans don’t love anyone, I’m convinced.
Kay
@Baud:
His repulsive, anti-democratic donors are too cowardly to face voters, so they suppress them. What a fucking racket.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker:
This. The faux-naivete of so many pundits– “Why are Democrats doing this? Do Democrats get it?– makes me crazy. They all know who Manchin is, half of the older ones cut their professional teeth selling the kind of austerian moralizing he preaches. I’ll allow confusion on Sinema, I don’t know what the hell she’s doing. Suzanne’s explanation– she’s aiming for a fat contract with The View– makes the most sense, but I don’t see how something like today’s fund-raiser fits into that. That makes me wonder about her going Indy, as Josh Marshall speculates.
Elizabelle
This seems like a good day to stay off the internets.
WereBear
@Kay: I was suspicious of the “term limits” argument from the beginning because I first encountered it from libertarian sources.
And it was because of FDR’s popularity. I shudder to think where we would be if he hadn’t been able to direct the nation for so long.
Republicans love it because it’s all replaceable cogs on their end. We have some expertise when it comes to long-serving public servants: and we care about that.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
Yeah, even though much of the frustration is justified, the Internet won’t be a happy place for a little while.
rikyrah
@Steeplejack (phone):
That’s why I call her a trifling trick.
Starfish
@Betty Cracker: They congressional committees need to quit funding the campaigns of people over 75 or so.
Obama had the rule where these clowns could not become lobbyists for a couple of years. Their spouses should also have more restrictions on them that they do. Boebert’s husband getting a $500k/yr job in the oil and gas industry stinks.
Cameron
@Steeplejack (phone): That pretty much says everything about her that anybody needs to know.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m at a loss as to how she succeeds as a independent, but then everything with Sinema leaves me at a loss.
Tony Gerace
@lowtechcyclist: These assholes (including the ones in the House) are neither moderates nor centrists. They’re right-wing politicians who happen to be in the Democratic Party. Maybe similar to the southern segregationist Democrats back in the day, many of whom switched to the Republican Party after 1965,
sherparick1
@J.: Double Yes. Also, they are afraid of dark money flooding their districts if they don’t vote their donor’s interests.
Manchin is pretty easy to figure, he is a fossil fuel millionaire himself, his daughter is CEO of pharmaceutical company, & his state is now 60 to 40 MAGA and the unions that once were so significant in West Virginia, UMW, USW, Chemical & Gas, etc. have pretty much cease to exist. So in ideology & economic self-interest, Manchin is closer to McConnell then he is to Biden
I would like someone from Arizona explain how Sinema became popular enough in the party to win the nomination. She is a Democrat because of the libertarianism of her sexual politics. On economics she has always appear RW to me.f
Antonius
Either extension of their sinecures or some other grift, I think. How did Sinema become a millionaire in 3 years from $34,000 net worth on a salary of $174,000?
Matt McIrvin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The Republicans know that in a close situation, if they just obstruct everything, the worst few Democrats will abet them, and then everyone from media pundits to institutionalist good-government types to progressive activists will concentrate their ire on the Democratic Party, because that’s where the seeming opportunities for breaking the logjam were. All the Republicans have to do is block everything and stand back.
Another Scott
@Steeplejack (phone): Superficially, that looks horrible. But note the time – 45 minutes. And if you wanted to meet with potential donors, wouldn’t you want to do it before an important vote that they cared about?
People in DC spend a LOT of time on fundraising. 45 minutes to one group is very little time, compared to say a dinner banquet.
There may be much less here than meets the eye. We need her vote and it’s clear that she wants something in return (as every Senator does). Let’s see what happens.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
If I had mad artistic skills, I would put up a light show on walls around the country.
Image of John Lewis: Hero.
Images of Sinema and Manchin. Zeroes.
Protect the right to vote.
Butter Emails!
@Kay:
I am strongly opposed to term limits and the related talk of people being in office too long. Term limits are good for executive offices as where power is consolidated into a single person’s hands and for appointed positions. For legislative positions, it only serves to decrease the power of those bodies relative to other branches and increase the dependence of members on their party and outside groups and decrease their accountability to voters.
Manchin has been in office forever, but he’s the only Democrat who could have kept that seat. Sinema hasn’t even finished a full term. There’s plenty of Congressional fossils (Bernie included) who seem fully on board the Biden train. The number of terms served doesn’t seem to be a major factor in whether you want to get shit done.
Cameron
So is Thursday the big day this week for debt and infrastructure? Damn – almost like it’s High Noon for the Biden administration.
Frank Wilhoit
There used to be a word called “triangulation”. Manchin, being a fool, is probably stuck in the past and vaguely remembers thinking that that was a good idea at the time. But the worst thing about fools is their utter unpredictability.
Sinema is not even a fool. When I look at her, I have no idea what I am looking at.
The instinct to sabotage is universal, very deep and accordingly unconscious.
These are pinpricks, but no Unified Theory makes any sense at all. Most of them presume a much greater degree of situational awareness on the part of the two problem Senators than they otherwise display.
SiubhanDuinne
@Kay:
Fully agree with you, although in some weak semblance of fairness, I will note that Grisham isn’t a reporter.
Tazj
@lowtechcyclist: I completely agree. The moderates in the House seem to think that making a name for themselves as being the tough guys who stopped the reconciliation bill or cut a lot from the bills will win them votes. They’re just going to lose the people who voted for them to get things done, which is everyone except hardline conservatives.
I heard an interview on NPR from an author that said that Manchin was a true believer in his fiscally conservative views. Who knows? I don’t care anymore. He’s wrong and at the moment he’s making things worse for everyone along with Sinema.
Last night, Jonathan Capehart seemed fairly confident on Lawrence O’Donnell’s show that both bills would pass because the rhetoric was toned down on the Democratic side.He may not be right but I’m choosing to believe it right now.
Baud
@Tazj:
From what little I’ve seen, Dem leaders have consistently been projecting confidence. Like you said, we’ll see soon enough.
Ksmiami
@Steeplejack (phone):
Kick her out. At this point, clear lines are easier to fight against
Peale
@Butter Emails!: I’m in favor of exile as a solution to our current mess. Once you’re out of office, you need to leave the country. Maybe set up an independent commission to determine which country needs to accept our refugees so they don’t just pick cushy locales. Gets rid of the lobbying, PE, Law Firm, “Think Tank” sinecure system. Makes it hard for them to preen on TV. They can just go away once they lose an election. They can stay if they retire.
hueyplong
With a vote announced for Thursday, it’s fair to assume that the blinking red light, screaming BREAKING updates will be dialed up to 11 between now and then.
Hard to know what is predictive of doom and what is merely trying to influence actors in the direction of doom. It’s not like we aren’t aware that the country has been awash in misinformation for a half dozen years.
Ksmiami
@Kay: exactly- I’m ready to cut the anchors from Manchin’s houseboat and send it crashing into the patuxent
The Moar You Know
There is no end game. May as well as a monkey throwing feces what the end game is. They don’t know. They just like playing with shit.
bbleh
@Skepticat: This. Yes it’s the money, and the promise of nice lucrative no-show sinecures after they leave Congress, but it’s also just the attention, especially for insecure wannabes like Manchin and Sinema, who have said explicitly that they see Byrd and McCain as role-models.
They’re pathetic
@Kropacetic: rather than courage, I think it’s merely obliviousness. They’re narcissists, all wrapped in their own me-me-me world, and it probably only barely scrapes the surface of their consciousness how needlessly selfishly they’re behaving.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Searcher:
not to get overly invested in a comment based in frustration I share, but to everybody saying nothing matters so let’s just tell SineManchin to go die in a fire, a couple of threads :
dww44
@Steeplejack (phone):
I heard this on Rachel’s show last evening. In a just world the Senator would pay an immediate price for this. It is just so wrong and disgusting and down right evil. Get the money out of politics so that we can save our democracy and make it function for all the people.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Ksmiami:
Mitch McConnell is finding that he’s nowhere near as welcome in Louisville as he used to be pre-end to earmarks. There are a bunch of really nice restaurants here, and he can’t go to any of them because he’ll be accosted ant treated rudely by other patrons. Now sure, he can go to a Somerset or Corbin Cracker Barrel and be warmly greeted, but the man has elevated tastes, and the evil city communists don’t welcome his presence, plus, when he goes to a football or basketball game, he’s surrounded with security even in the upscale corners and suites, since people have given him their minds.
Frankly, he needs to start feeling physical fear when out in public as well
ETA – Elaine Chao doesn’t get much love at the local Kroger, either.
bbleh
@kindness: I don’t get THE newspapers — there are a few — but I have seen ads on TV, and the “pass the care funding bill” message is very much out there, so it’s not entirely one-sided.
Baud
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
You don’t want to mess with the Ladies of Kroger.
bbleh
@lowtechcyclist: @henrythefifth: And there are rumors that Manchin isn’t actually very interested in another term and so cares a lot more about arranging a post-=Senate career than about getting things done for his constituents.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Okay I don’t want to promote the Grisham grift-book, but these made me laugh
Gives me a mental image of Peter Boyle in Young Frankenstein with an orange wig, as he hears the violin coming from the castle….
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@bbleh: I’ve read that he hates the Senate and would rather run for governor again, but I have a hard time imagining any Dem winning statewide in WV at this point
ETA: So the answer is, again, win and hold the six or eight Senate seats we can in 2022.
lowtechcyclist
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
A hard NO on that from me. People who do bad shit should feel the scorn and disgust of the general public if they choose to go out among people.
But NO ONE should be given reason to be physically afraid of going out in public. No one. Period.
If they commit crimes, let them be afraid of being tried, convicted, and imprisoned. But that should be as far as it goes.
MomSense
Isn’t Manchin an owner or investor in some coal related companies? It seemed to me that his issue with the infrastructure legislation is that he doesn’t want the climate crisis mitigation provisions because they will negatively affect his companies.
lowtechcyclist
@bbleh:
Now that I really don’t understand. He turned 74 last month, so he’ll be 77 when his term ends. Who wants a new career at that age?
IIRC, he’s got enough money that a few years as a lobbyist is neither here not there moneywise. And other than wanting that lucre, why would one want to be a corporate lobbyist?
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: OMFG, “Memories” from “Cats” calms him DOWN?!? My mother once played that on repeat during a 6-hour road trip to punish my brother for stealing her car. It had the opposite effect on my brother.
LeftCoastYankee
This is the USA. It’s always about money. Always.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Oh god I wish I knew how to do the LOL smiley face
Miss Bianca
@Betty Cracker: Betty, was that car-stealing episode the same one where he called your mom and said something like, “I’m in Savannah”, and your mom said, “Savannah better be the name of a girl, you little shit!”?
I just wanted you to know that I have never forgotten that little anecdote and fervently hope to steal/adapt it for future use someday.
Also, too, I would *never* have wanted to get on your mother’s bad side. Sounds like she knew how to take some…creative…revenge.
Steeplejack (phone)
@rikyrah:
Tell it.
raven
RIP Commander Cody!
lowtechcyclist
@Ksmiami:
As one who is familiar with the local geography, good luck with that! The Patuxent flows into the Chesapeake Bay upstream from where the Potomac does the same.
Geminid
@lowtechcyclist: I tend to agree with the principle you state. I would add a more pragmatic reason: what goes around comes around.
Shakti
Yes.
Betty Cracker
@Miss Bianca: Yes! My brother was 14 when he and a friend stole Mom’s van and drove it from Tampa to Savannah. He called when he ran out of money, and she and the father of the other teen went to fetch them. Mom drove the van home and tortured bro with “Memories” the entire way. I recounted the incident when I delivered the eulogy at her funeral years later, much to my brother’s chagrin. But everyone else laughed. :)
Geminid
@MomSense: A rapid decarbonization of the economy would affect West Virginia interests beyond those of Manchin personally. He wants to slow the clean energy transition down. There are many coal powered electrical generation plants that are not slated to be closed until 2035. Even the progressive clean power legislation Governor Michelle Lujan Griffin pushed through the New Mexico legislature a couple years ago will not take the Four Corners coal plant off line until 2031. An agressive build out of wind and solar power would allow this and other such plants to be put down before the end of this decade. It would also accelerate replacement of natural gas power generation, which now may be a larger component of West Virginia’s carbon economy than coal. Manchin wants to postpone this.
Ruckus
@Antonius:
Everyone in congress makes a minimum of $190,000/yr. That’s the current base salary. It is this high in an attempt to curb outside influence. Problem is that the outside influences have extra money, a lot of extra money, that can be in many ways steered towards politicians to say, do and behave in ways that benefit those who pay.
jeffreyw
@Betty Cracker: That reminds me of a story I heard about a daughter, after being gone from home all night, calling her mother the next morning.
“Mom! Guess what! I’m engaged!”
“In what?”
James E Powell
@Kay:
They’re just plain bad people. We keep looking for other, non-evil, rational explanations, but there aren’t any. They’re bad, evil. Any elected official choosing narrow corporate interests over people’s needs is an evil person
And I don’t give a rat’s ass that Manchin is from a state dominated by ignorant bigots who will replace him with another ignorant bigot. There is right & wrong and “I need it to get re-elected in my 70s” is not a justification for doing wrong.
OGLiberal
I honestly don’t get Sinema. I’m pretty certain it wasn’t GOP voters crossing the line to vote for her that won her that Senate seat. And I don’t think they’ll cross the line the next time around unless there is a large contingent in AZ of old Republican white dudes who think she’s hot and think the bi-sexuality thing makes her even hotter because, you know, threesomes.
James E Powell
@OGLiberal:
Sinema just happened to be the D on the ballot they year that AZ blue-shifted enough for her to win by ~56K votes. And in retrospect, it appears McSally ran a campaign that would have worked in the former, redder, AZ.
piratedan
just a reminder…. that while we are collectively furious at Manchin and Sinema (and rightfully so), there are still 50 other Senators out there, representing the “other” party that are completely without conscience or ethics or morals or free will, who also could; if they chose to do so, vote for any of these bills. Be it from taking the fiscal responsibility to pay for what they approved in previous legislation or simply indicating that Voting is indeed a right for the citizens of this country, no matter the race, creed, color of said citizen.
While I can be furious at Sinema and Manchin for being bought, deluded, corrupt and having that exposed for all to see (who have the time and inclination to look). I do not want to let the entire GOP off the hook for their actions and behavior. I don’t want to give the press a pass on aiding and abetting that behavior, nor do I wish to give a pass to all of our fellow citizens who believe that Fascism-Lite is something we should all accept.
bbleh
@lowtechcyclist: I’m thinking more like a no-show corporate directorship with very occasional “obligations” like giving a speech to a bunch of applauding fellow-plutocrats, not actual work.
More money is always good, and they never get tired of the ego-fluffing.
zhena gogolia
@piratedan: Right. I am so sick of putting it all on two Dems and leaving all the Repubs in peace.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, … Robyn Pennacchia at Wonkette: Ohio Wingnut’s Terrible Pro-Coronavirus Bill Foiled By Ohio’s Terrible Labor Laws!
Legislative crank wanted to force businesses not to have sensible COVID-19 policies. She was unable to get other GQP monsters to sign on because Ohio “like every state except Montana” is an at-will employment state (workers can be fired for any reason).
I take this as a sign that the pro-business side of the GQP is actually willing to stand up to the crazies (in some cases). A tiny hopeful sign for the future.
Cheers,
Scott.
Cameron
Maybe public funding of elections might alleviate some of the special-interest pressure? That doesn’t seem to be too high on anybody’s agenda, though.
jimmiraybob
Disclaimer: I am not a political genius or even a very-stable genius.
However, for the next week or so does it really matter from the outside what the motivations are? I assume that Dem leadership has a firm grasp and will be trying to counter.
If Manchurian and Sinnamon blow up the Biden agenda it sure seems like a path to Republican control in 2022 and 2024. And given the trajectory, is there a path back from that with the Dems, as a party, looking like feckless fools and incompetents.
While it’s not very practical, I’m hoping that it’s all Kabuke and that in the end it will be a Biden-agenda victory. Until then, I’m trying not to listen too much to all the speculations.
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m an ALW fan, but I’m with Betty, listening to “Memories” is torture!
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Betty Cracker:
Reminds me of Summer from School of Rock. Not only do I hate the song, I doubly loathe a bad rendition of it.
topclimber
@OGLiberal:
Bull Moose GOP will be her party. Media will love the story
And might win a 3 way split. Does AZ do runoffs?
frosty
@Another Scott:
Geez, you have such a positive outlook on everything. It’s refreshing! I think I’ll take the advice upthread and stay off the internet for most of the day.
Geminid
@OGLiberal: I think Sinema would be angling for Indepent voters not Republican. When Arizona voting rolls closed last October, registrations were Republican 35%, Democrat 32%, Independent 31.7%. This was the first time in years that Democratic registration exceeded Independent. Last’s election saw a record turnout in Arizona, and I don’t think Biden and Kelly could have won the state without carrying a majority of Independents.
But I hear Sinema’s approval among the state’s Independents has fallen a lot.
TriassicSands
This is what I’ve been wondering. It makes sense.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Betty Cracker:
Your mom sounds great.
That reminds me of the time that I got confined to the boundaries of the county in which Louisville sits, but prohibited any place else in the metro area.
I’d been, among other things, rappelling down by Ft Knox, and going to some local lakes outside boundaries to bring girls to camp and make out. Being 16 with a drivers license and a job was all kinds of fun….
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@OGLiberal:
All guys think they WANT a threesome. Hell, I’d go for it.
Thing is, they’d last about 3 minutes and then would wander off to the kitchen for a sandwich. Too much buildup, inadquate payoff.
Another Scott
TheHill:
Oregon gained a seat from the Census (presently 4D,1R).
Good, good. More please.
I sure hope that sense prevails in the Virginia redistricting. Right now the “bipartisan/citizens” commission seems like it’s being steamrollered by the GQP mapmakers. Grr…
Cheers,
Scott.
Major Major Major Major
Manchin? Genuine moderate/whatever you want to call it. Sinema? “Look at me!” …and bald corruption, of course, especially for her.
As for the endgame of the dipshits blocking legislation in the House… which ones? The ones you like, or the ones you don’t?
James E Powell
The only thing I can think that anyone could do about this would be for people in AZ & WVa to drown both senators in calls, emails, letters, protests, demonstrations. etc.
TriassicSands
This is what I’ve been wondering. It makes sense.
TriassicSands
If Manchin had truly wanted to get bipartisan legislation passed he would have made it clear that he would support ending the filibuster if Republicans wouldn’t cooperate. Instead, he has given them no reason at all to help pass such legislation, because he has gone to great lengths to emphasize that he won’t agree to change or get rid of the filibuster. The worst imaginable negotiating strategy. One would almost suspect that he doesn’t want legislation to pass.
Major Major Major Major
@Ruckus: A good reason to pay legislators more!
Steeplejack (phone)
@OGLiberal:
Sinema to old Republican white dude: “Meet Sven, darling. He’s here for that threesome you wanted.”
ORWD: ?
Ksmiami
Mint the coin. That is all.
Ksmiami
@zhena gogolia: they aren’t Dems…. But of course we are here due to the craven machinations of a defunct party enthralled to its own power…
Feckless
Kompromat.
Ksmiami
@lowtechcyclist: I’m not saying the houseboat would still be recognizable by the time I got done….
Suzanne
@OGLiberal:
There is a contingent in AZ, and it’s sizable, of LDS people (especially women) who are fairly conservative, but are really grossed out by the GOP and Trump. Think of the kind of people who voted not just for Romney but also for Evan McMullin. Jeff Flake, who Sinema replaced, is also LDS. Sinema is formerly LDS. The Trumpy sex stuff doesn’t sit as well with Mormon women. Also, the LDS have recent cultural memory of being driven out of the eastern part of the country and forming an immigrant caravan to Utah. There are also significant LDS mission colonies in Mexico. They don’t have the same fire-breathing hatred of immigrants that, say, the Evangelicals have. Do not be mistaken, they are mostly conservative. But there is a stripe of politically liberal Mormons, and many of the conservative ones are also turned off by the GOP. This is a significant part of Sinema’s coalition. She comes from CD-9, which is partly in the PHX East Valley, which is the largest LDS community outside Salt Lake. Her district abuts that of Andy Biggs, who is also LDS.
Ksmiami
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: this is exactly the right approach- the GOP reps actually hate their Hicksville towns and untermenschen; preferring the cultural wealth of blue cities… fine, then no reservations for you- every time they go out they should be accosted by liberals and harassed
Timurid
I’m starting to wonder if the ‘moderate’ bloc is planning to primary Biden in 2024. Maybe their candidate will be Manchin himself. Yes, he’s crazy old, but Trump and Biden have broken that barrier…
Ksmiami
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: not an easy task if the Democrats can’t pass anything…. Sorry your logic doesn’t work w the reality of our electorate
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@lowtechcyclist: Amen.
Kent
@Steeplejack (phone): Sven? More like “Meet Tyrone” or “Meet DeShawn”
Mike H
What can Sinema do (short of leaving the Senate) but change parties at this point?
Emerald
Look, there’s an easy solution to the Manchin/Sinema problem. If they’re really selling their votes then just pay more. Outbid the Republicans.
(Illegal, of course. And?)
Kent
@Mike H: She can’t change parties. There is zero chance the GOP will have her, at least in 2024. She would get crushed by whatever MAGA crazy runs in the GOP primary.
She could theoretically become an independent like Angus King. But I don’t think that trick works in Arizona. And she would still need to pick a side to caucus with. And the result would be identical to today anyway.
Mike H
@Suzanne: I know I’m from out of state, but when I hear this kind of stuff, I always wonder if 51% of the electorate can be cobbled together with this.
Mai Naem mobile
@Suzanne: i have a good friend whose whole family are LDS and liberal. I think some of this is because the parents were LDS converts not born LDS.
Anyhow, I think the end game is to pull an Obamacare where so much time is spent on the infrastructure bill that there’s no time left in the legislative calendar to do anything else. Remember the Dems couldn’t do immigration after O-Care because they ran out of time. Fuck the GOP and their oligarch pals. They are the primary reason why the US is falling behind in the world.
Omnes Omnibus
I will join in the raging at Manchin and Sinema if the legislation fails an we default, etc., but right now they are still just pains in the ass.
Ksmiami
@Mai Naem mobile: I just hope a lot of Republicans continue to die from Covid…
Geminid
@Timurid: There are a lot of moderate Democrats in the House and Senate, and almost all of them have been very supportive of President Biden’s agenda. There will not be a primary challenge from a “moderate bloc” in 2024.
Ksmiami
@Omnes Omnibus: you do realize they’ve wasted almost a year for their pathetic egos? A year that could have been Dems moving forward on a lot of fronts? Their games have cost a lot and don’t get me started on voting rights
Suzanne
@Mike H: No one listens to me when I say this, but I keep saying it: Arizona knows who she is and she wins. She did not win when she was further left. She has successfully created a coalition that hangs together, repeatedly, even though I don’t think anyone loves her. The Dems are fed up with her, but it is difficult for them to back away from her, because she wins, and there is not a lengthy list of other state Dems who can win statewide. I am hopeful for Katie Hobbs and Greg Stanton.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ksmiami: Yes, I haven’t been in a coma for the last year.
Another Scott
@Suzanne: I listen and I think you’re right. Like it or not, most voters aren’t as lefty as we are and we always need to remember that.
“What do we want!?”
“Incremental progress!!”
“When do we want it?!”
“Pretty soon, but not too quickly and not all at once!!”
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Suzanne
@Another Scott: When she got elected, lots of commenters here were really excited, and I warned y’all that she would be an immense disappointment. She helps put Mitch McConnell in the minority. That is all she is good for. It may be the best you can expect.
Elect better Dems elsewhere and deprive her of attention. It is the only way.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ksmiami: @Omnes Omnibus: If they come through, this Congress will have accomplished great things and the wait will have been okay. If they don’t come through, does it really matter when?
Baud
Hill headline says Biden is meeting with Manchin and Sinema today.
Suzanne
@Another Scott: It’s still a pretty reddish-purple state. Of course there is a left wing, but it’s not big or electorally influential, so pissing them off doesn’t really matter. What I wish people could keep in mind is that she is very representative of her electorate. It’s not like Arizonans wanted a progressive and they elected her and now we’re surprised.
Omnes Omnibus
@Suzanne: But she’s bi and stylish. She must be okay…
Baud
@Suzanne:
There are a lot of moderates who aren’t as showy or hard to work with.
Suzanne
@Baud: Very familiar ex-Mormon type.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: In a 50/50 Senate, someone was always going take the opportunity to preen in public. It just happens that it’s coming from the right edge of the party this time.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: Yup. Assume kabuki or malleability until the bitter end. This is the Senate we’re talking about, after all. Still worried about Sinema, though, since she actually seems to think she doesn’t have to play the game.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major:
I’ve always assumed that if Manchin is on board, Sinema won’t be out there by her lonesome.
Geminid
@Geminid: Correction: New Mexico’s Democratic Governor is Michelle Lujan Grisham, not Griffin.
Betty Cracker
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: She was definitely one of a kind!
Rappelling near Ft. Knox seems like the kind of activity that could draw unwanted attention!
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Me too.*
*Sorry, Baud, I know how triggered you must be by the phrase “me too.”
Mai Naem mobile
The Arizona legislature passed a flat tax(with a resulting decrease in revenue) kind of bill this past session which I think is going to end up hurting rural areas. Metro Phoenix will be okay but the revenue sharing between the state and towns increases the revenue sharing with the rural areas slightly but I am betting not enough. I wonder how happy these people are going to be when services, schools, roads etc start going downhill. The effect probably won’t be felt for 2-3 years so I am guessing the state GOP will blame it on Biden.
George
As Carl Jung wrote/said: “If you cannot understand why someone did something, look at the consequences and infer the motivation.”
TCS
Make free golf carts for all seniors part of the infrastructure bill. Let Sinema announce it. She can use this as the reason she has dropped her opposition to the filibuster. Let her take credit. AZ and FL go Democratic in 2022.
misterpuff
@raven: Lost in the Ozone. RIP
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@TCS:
Ha! I think I was twelve, when my aunt and uncle bought their condo at the equivalent of Del Boca Vista, and I saw those personalized golf carts around the complex. And the ones with the zippered up plastic for AC! I thought, now that’s living. Half the reason I stuck with “junior golf” was my dad would let me drive the cart when no one was looking
Noskilz
The coverage over at TPM is giving the impression SInema is basically a self-absorbed idiot convinced she has the inside track on being Arizona’s next John McCain. Her support back home is tanking, but she’s also supposedly very determined not to look at any of that – no town halls, avoiding constituents, etc.. I get the sense she thinks she has an infinite supply of bridges to burn and isn’t going to do anything different until she actually burns through all of them.
I often read a theory that her real goal is to become a lobbyist, but doesn’t that kind of hinge on having some kind of reputation and influence? What kind of pull is she going to have with any of her former colleagues after what is sure to be her only term? Who would hire such a flaky screw-up and why?
I can totally see why a pharmaceutical company might be willing to throw money at her to keep her on board until she implodes – but she seems determined to implode and it isn’t as if unscrupulous weirdos seem to be hard to come by in Arizona.
J R in WV
@NotMax:
Talking to Manchin without holding a (large) check, or perhaps a thick cash-filled envelope, in your hand is as productive as shouting into a plugged gas well.
prostratedragon
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Sounds like Leland Palmer!
Brantl
@lowtechcyclist: No, they can be afraid that no one approves of them at all, because decent people won’t (approve of this a-hole).
jimmiraybob
@raven:
Damn. RIBW.
Morzer
Manchin and Sinema are needy, insecure, pathological narcissists who are getting the sweet, sweet attention their inadequate psyches crave, plus cash from donors. There’s nothing else there.