I doubt they will do it, but were I a member of the House Progressive caucus, this is what I would do. I would state clearly and loudly to Sinema, Manchin, and the dozen or so edgelord douchebags in the House like Rep. Gottheimer that, if they do not cut the bullshit, they will, in the famous words of a cinematic mafioso, get NOTHING from here on out. Nothing. It would only take two dozen members of the progressive caucus to shut down EVERYTHING going through the house. Everything.
Just go full on scorched earth. Hey Sinema- all that stuff you are bragging about on your page? Stuff like this?
Protecting Arizonans and Ecosystems: Increasing wildfires threaten the health and safety of Arizona communities, as well as the unique ecosystems and watersheds that make our state special. Senator Sinema’s Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act makes critical investments in wildfire mitigation, prevention, response, and recovery to protect our communities and natural landscapes — including:
Watershed Protection: The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act provides $300 million in funding for the Emergency Watershed Protection Program to help local communities recover after wildfires. This funding is available to non-federal lands to conduct post-fire flood prevention in impacted communities, such as in Coconino and Gila Counties.
Community Defense Grants: The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act invests $500 million for Forest Service Community Defense Grants.
Burned Area Rehabilitation: The bipartisan legislation also provides $450 million for the Forest Service and the Department of Interior to carry out Burned Area Rehabilitation programs.
You get none of it. Nothing. My progressive caucus will tank the bill of any of that is still in it. We will strip every last fucking bit out.
Hey Gottheimer, all that stuff you are patting yourself on the back about? This shit? You get none of it. We will remove anything you sponsor or anything for your district, or else we tank the larger bill. From here on out.
Same with Manchin.
And they could do it, too. If Sinema, Manchin, and the bought and paid for Problem Solvers Caucus kill the Biden plans, the Democrats will get wiped out in 2022. But you know who won’t? The progressive caucus. They are in safe seats in districts that are many times even more progressive than their members. It will be the blue dogs who once again get wiped off the electoral map. Like fucking anti-vaxxers, they’re too stupid to save themselves.
You keep cockblocking everything, you get nothing from here on out. Ever. Fuck around and find out.
The standard argument for why progressives should give way, is that “real people” will get hurt, and we can always fight another day. But the hour is getting late, and a couple more cycles of the GrOPers winning and American democracy will be over.
TL;DR John, you’re spot-on. Spot-on.
It’s not quite that simple. It is satisfying, no doubt, and they are justified in their anger.
But knifing the centrist Dems probably means resumption of GOP control in both Houses, leading to more fuckery and undermining of things the Progressives want. It’s the “things have to get much worse before they can get better” argument.
I do think they should all vote no on the bipartisan bill and see where we go from there.
@Dennis: Failing the American people is also a pretty short pier to walk off of, and frankly that’s what these dickheads are doing. Fuck it, burn it all down if they won’t build it up, and drag them along.
There’s a legitimate debate on how to proceed, as Betty’s post lays out, but going full Ted Cruz is not really a viable strategy.
not knifing the centrist Dems will do that.
Yup. Somebody needs a “come to reality” moment with Sinema and Manchin. These are not usual times, and they need to hear from those more grounded in reality. Not just their courtiers, DC press corpse (wired for Republicans) and whatever donors are whispering in their ears.
Turn the water off.
Thing is the old take the thimble full of success and forget about the gallon you tossed overboard doesn’t really work for progressives this time. Progressives would get nothing they really want and Sinema/Manchin folk would get everything they want.
Bargaining means giving everyone something and a certain group seems to have forgotten that.
I think I may want to stay away from this site for a few days. If deals happen, they will happen at the last minute. Everything until either a vote happens or bills are withdrawn is a negotiating move. Raging prior to that seems to me a waste of time, but it appears that I am in the minority.
You know, on some level I understand Joe Manchin’s reasoning. Sure, it’s a coward’s logic but it’s logical nonetheless.
Sinema, not so much. That woman ate paint chips as a child. Maybe Mark Kelly’s brother can primary her dumb ass. What state does Scott Kelly live in?
Manchin has decided to dance with the people who are paying for his very luxurious retirement.
Sinema is auditioning for her next bucket list item, also sure to be renumerative beyond dreams of avarice.
Neither of them could care less about their putative constituents, or the Democratic Party, if they sat down and tried real hard.
If the Dem Senate Caucus, or the Biden Admin, know how to play Fuck You Hardball, this would be a good time to let loose.
Manchin is the bigger piece of shit right now. Every poll out of WV shows that the Build Back Better bill is wildly popular (like over 75% supporting it which means even Republicans want it), and that motherfucker still won’t support it.
Old Man Shadow
I concur, Mr. Cole.
Those centrists need to honor their word, or the deal is off. We’ve already compromised and watered down the bills.
No infrastructure bill unless reconciliation bill moves with it.
If Sinema and Manchin block these bills Dems will lose the House and Senate, regardless. Progressives have NOTHING to lose.
I agree. I also think Sinema will cave if Manchin is on board.
Tank it and fuck them forever with a rusty chain saw. I’m so done
@Omnes Omnibus: I will step away with you. I truly cannot marinate in all the derision and pre-disappointment.
Some days, when I make up my to do list, it includes “Stay off of Balloon Juice.” Because this place can just suck the pleasure out of your day. It’s the “we are always LOSING” vibe. Sick of that shit.
Proud supporter of Nancy Smash and President Handsome Joe and MVP Harris and all the brave Democrats who have our backs.
New Deal democrat
This is right out of behavioral economics. In the ultimatum game, if the dictator offers a share that the receiver deems unfair (usually less than about 35% of the total), the receiver rejects the offer, and both parties walk away empty handed. It’s not just humans. Monkeys, chimpanzees, and almost all social species enforce the same result.
Kill the bill. It’s that simple. Make the centrists make a more acceptable offer.
Politics is messy and progress is incremental. I continue to think that both bills will get passed, and both will be short of what’s needed. It was ever thus.
Just like with the PPACA, burning it all down enables our opponents. 3/8ths of a loaf is better than sparrows and curtain rods…
Hang in there, everyone.
Old Man Shadow
Exactly. We’ve all been here before and watched the results of playing it safe and “being the adults” and the end was TFG.
To the public, the Democrats have control of the government and any failure to live up to their campaign promises and help Americans will fall on the Democratic party.
Not really true. If progressives respond disproportionately, they lose credibility among potential supporters. There is a world of potential reactions between rolling over and going scotched earth.
I wish a motherfucker would
@Elizabelle: Sinema is probably toast and is looking to a high-paying lobbying gig post-Senate. Manchin is in no danger from a Dem and is probably helping himself with GOP WV voters.
Old Man Shadow
I would think to be a successful lobbyist, one would have to cultivate friendships while in Congress and not make people actively hate you.
@Old Man Shadow: No, one just has to bring piles of campaign cash to every meeting.
The right flank is being horrible, but people who want the government to do big things will always be at a structural disadvantage compared to people who aren’t that interested what the government does.
@Dennis: Right. The politique du pire is not one of ours, it is one of theirs.
And that would be a reasonable take, if Cinemansion were offering some cut-down BBBA in exchange for the BIF. But they’re not: they’re offering “nothing”. And the BIF is not exactly something progressives are swooning over: quite to the contrary, from what I’ve read.
@Ksmiami: Why not save “being done” for after you find out whether the Dems arrive at a successful outcome?
The Problem Causers Caucus is a name right out of a frunkin’ Frank Luntz memo. And that ain’t a complement, you shitty corporatist hacks.
@Omnes Omnibus: The idea is that some negotiating strategies are inherently illegitimate. There is a case to be made for that proposition. It all depends upon the criteria. Collateral damage is an excellent one.
I’m not talking about the BIF. I’m talking about the suggestions in the OP.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. You are exactly right. Fuck around and find out, mother fuckers.
@Old Man Shadow:
One would also have to be able and/or willing to say what it is you’re after.
@Baud: How else do you enforce party discipline? And esp. in the House, these aren’t especially-vulnerable seats, either. These are bastards who are doing it for purely venal reasons.
@WaterGirl: I see now why it was easy for Rome to fall into a weak senate/strong Consul-Dictatorship government model. The current senate Is a complete impediment to good governance
@Dennis: In which case, Cinema doesn’t exactly have a leg up on your random K street lawyer. Neither with GrOPers (for whom she’ll still be “that lesbian [epithet for female]” nor with Dems (for whom she’ll still be “the one who cost a bunch of us our jobs”)
That’s because Frank Luntz is advising them.
There’s no real way to enforce party discipline the way parties are set up here.
@Old Man Shadow: She may have a lot of repub friends now.
Some New Republic dork was incredulous today that liberal+progressive voters would sit out 2022 or ’24 (or vote fringe, or whathave you) if Dems capitulate to SineManch or the Problematic Caucus.
I swear, these guys (and a few gals) have zero sense that decade after decade of lumping it in honor of tiny incremental progress, the level of fed-upness and anger is incredibly high.
It is 100ºF in North Dakota. Today.
Forest fires are epically huge this year.
Floods where there aren’t droughts.
A g-d damned attempted coup this year.
Not to mention 20% of the population being excited to be super-spreaders.
But we’d be ‘fools’ to burn it all down, the sages of TNR say. It’s gonna burn anyway, it the increasingly terrible calculus.
@WaterGirl: I mean aside from calling Manchin and Sinema there’s nothing I can do except prepare for the fall out.
@John Cole: Yes. Sherrod Brown keeps winning in red Ohio because he says what he means and can always be counted on to look after his constituents.
I called my congressman blue dog/problem solver Kurt Schrader last week. Stated in polite but unequivocal words that I support Biden and Pelosi over his proposals. Said this is a team effort get with the team. He usually comes around to the team effort if his vote is required. In response I got an email this morning laying out his proposal. Worth noting he inherited several million dollars from his grandfather, a major pharma executive.
Indeed. Edward Watts’ _Mortal Republic: How Rome Fell into Tyranny_ was an excellent education on what’s happening -right- now. The traditional mechanisms of negotiation by which the spoils are divided are breaking down, b/c “them that has” are simply unwilling to share with the rest. Eventually that led to civil war, and then Empire. Lotta blood spilt along the way.
That book was an excellent read.
@Baud: Somehow, the GrOPers have managed to do it for nigh-on two decades, admittedly with a few (very few) rare exceptions.
Sinema can’t openly say what she’s after now, but she will have no trouble with that when she is a lobbyist.
It’s not incredulous but it would be dumb. Manchin and Sinema aren’t even up in 2022. The Dems who will be in the ballot will almost certainly be solid.
They don’t try to do anything except tax cuts and judges. We have a much bigger agenda.
@Baud: Being able to restrain your caucus from defecting to the Dems for some pork, is *also* about enforcing discipline. And Yertle has managed that.
Whatever. it doesn’t matter. We get the government we deserve, evidently good and fucking hard.
@Chetan Murthy: thanks I’ll read it…
Yes, that’s why the ACA is no more.
@Baud: As i said, very rare exceptions.
Mai Naem mobile
The problem with punishing Sinema is that Mark Kelly is up next year while Sinema is up in 2024. Kelly will be blamed for not bringing the bacon home and with the flat tax wanna be law they passed in AZ is going to hurt rural areas he’s going to get even fewer rural votes than he did in 2020. Rural white folks will blame Kelly and Biden instead of Ducey. Off year election is the turd on that shit sandwich.
Here’s Joe Manchin today:
I suppose Manchin speaks for Sinema too. Barf emoji
I sometimes feel the same way. But then some folks (you being one of them) make sensible remarks that tone down the hysteria. The truth is, none of us know what is going to happen, what the consequences of doing or not doing something will be, or why people are saying the things they are saying.
We can make our voices heard by contacting our folks in Congress, but not much else.
@kindness: How is it that progressives get nothing they want in the physical infrastructure bill? It would generate a lot of good paying jobs for working class people, and progressives claim to care about the working class, at least in the abstract. The $60 billion for improving and extending passenger rail service is a good start on decarbonizing personal transport, and can be built upon. Programs to add charging stations and shifting school buses from diesel to electric propulsion hasten the clean energy transition, and again, these can be built upon.
I am not saying that progressives are wrong to hold out for human infrastructure legislation. But framing this controversy as, moderates alone get their way on the physical infrastructure bill, is wrong I think.
I have been feeling similar, somewhat about certain threads here but even more so about political Twitter and related links. And most of it is not even about people griping. It’s that the actual situation is just so completely fucked up. As germy linked ahead of me downstairs (damn you, germy!), the GQP came within one vote of passing a health-care bill that was deeply unpopular, yet the Democrats can’t pass stuff that a huge majority of Americans like. And I’m not blaming “the Democrats”; it’s clearly a small group of so-called “moderates.” And the fucking ridiculous filibuster. The progressives are doing fine. Hell, I was even agreeing with Bernie Sanders this morning!
We’ll, this is our exception then.
Astronomers found a really,really big comet. Currently projected to swing through no closer than Saturn but maybe they’re wrong. Impact with a 160 mile diameter object would be a complete reset. Evolution could try again, might work out better.
He and Sinema are as willing to drive off the cliff as the McConnell crew.
@Steeplejack: Something has to break. This is untenable.
Old Man Shadow
Meh. Ultimately, I suppose, the folks saying there’s no point in Hulking out about a defeat or loss before it happens are right.
I guess I’ll wait.
And then I’ll start screaming if Democrats once again retreat, compromise too much, and fall back yet again.
@Baud: I guess what I’m trying to say is, angry people act in ways that don’t fit the ‘marginal voter theory’ of New Republic guys.
We got Trump in part because a lot of folks misunderstood how mad the (closet and not so closet) racists were that Obama won twice and did some democrat-y things.
Folks on the liberal side of the ledger may not make rational choices in ’22 and/or ’24, and failing to deliver on many of the core Democratic ideals between now and then makes the pissed of and dumb response seem more likely.
Or maybe we’ll all just grumblingly toe the line again. I hope so! I just really doubt it.
I think there is a compromise to be had here but it can only be achieved by nuking the infrastructure bill. You then go to Manchin, Sinema, and the House “moderates” and you tell them to suck it up and negotiate on the reconciliation bill, with the note that the provisions from the infrastructure bill will be part of that negotiation.
I think what most of us are genuinely, and reasonably, pissed off about is that neither Manchin nor Sinema nor any of the others are actually negotiating. None of them are saying what they specifically don’t like, what dollar figure they are prepared to accept, which provisions must be cut vs. others that can remain.
Stop playing games; sit down at the table and act like an adult.
@banditqueen: You’re both likely wrong. A post-Senate sinecure just requires an open pocket.
Old Man Shadow
@Geminid: It would be an unconditional surrender. Sinema and Manchin would get everything they want and all of Biden’s other priorities and the priorities of the Progressive Caucus get flushed down the drain into the swamp.
Wouldn’t exactly be a shining moment of awesome.
O/T but Hanif Abdurraqib won a MacArthur Foundation Genius Grant! I am jumping for joy!
I don’t know who or what that is, but I’m happy too.
Oh I agree. It’s a real risk.
@Omnes Omnibus: I know but I just heard the end of a sound bite with Manchin talking about Social security not even being paid for, so frustrating.
@PaulB: no. They are mad that the deal was “they vote for the bipartisan bill that has a lot of shit in it that they don’t like to help get across the line but then the conservadems vote for a bill that has a lot of shit in it they don’t like”.
now the conservadems want them to vote for a bill with a lot of shit in it they don’t like, and we will consider sitting down to negotiate over that other bill that has an end of year time limit so it implodes if we don’t even hold a vote for it.
The GQP has party “discipline” because they all agree about everything: lower taxes, deregulation and conservative judges. Enforced by fear of their rabid base.
One of the problems of the Democrats’ “big tent” is that we don’t agree on everything, or how to get there.
@Kelly: 100 million years from now, advanced cockroach descendants dig up fossil remains of 2021 pre-impact world, and speculate that it was actually Hell.
@Baud: This is an important point. The GOP is the FYIGM party; when you have everything, all you want is for someone not to take it from you. They can afford to be the party of negation because they don’t want the government to do anything except line their pockets where convenient, like in stupid wars. The media and the way our government is structured enables them to do that. A lot of those proposing scorched earth responses to the Manchin/Sinema problem seem to assume that the politics of these things are symmetrical. They’re not. Dems win when the Republicans’ policies finally lead to catastrophe (Iraq War and financial crisis) or when Dems successfully paint them as dangerous fucking nuts (Goldwater, Trump). An internal war among Dems does not work unless you can successfully paint the obstructionists as corrupt. They may be, but the party messaging has not set up that narrative.
I listened to NPR’s On Point today, (“Will Infighting Upend The Democratic Party’s Goals?”), and one thing I can say is that the host seemed positively giddy at the prospect of another Dems in Disarray show. In their introduction, they said that Manchin seems to be the recalcitrant one, and Sinema more open to the larger, Biden Agenda bill. Don’t know how they figured that one out, since neither Manchin or Sinema have said anything at all.
They did brief interviews with both a member of the Progressive caucus, Ayanna Pressley, and one of the Conservadems, Henry Cuellar, who said that Manchin has given him a number he could live with, but hasn’t mentioned it to Biden! And one of the regular guests, Jack Beatty, explained why Biden hasn’t already won this fight by quoting Ross Douthat(WTF?), opining that Biden is a frail old man, so there!
Oh, and just for fun, I switched to KPFK, and drum roll please, another anti-vax program! For the entirety of the hour, host Tony Bates played an interview with Jimmy Dore (Yikes!) speaking with a Dr. Ram Yogendra (sp), who was arguing that since mRNA vaccines don’t work forever, like the polio vaccine, then questions must be asked. (Pssst, it’s all about Big Pharma’s swollen money bags.)
He’s a freaking genius!
Check him out. He’s a beautiful writer and wonderful human being.
His SO and my son’s fiancée are close friends which I only found out after I started reading his work.
Now I’m hoping they will be at the wedding next year so I can agonize about saying hello without embarrassing myself.
I find all of this talk about Sinema angling to be a lobbyist tedious. She is barely a third of the way through her six-year term. She has plenty of time for angling after the 2022 election. I think right now she is more concerned with building up her campaign and PAC war chest, which, if I remember correctly, she gets to keep if she decides not to run again. If she’s all about the money, on which we seem to agree, she’s going to go where the money is now rather than at some indefinite point in the future.
I should read more things besides The Juice.
They’ll get 50 votes in the Senate. Both bills will pass. The timing is still TBD.
@MomSense: Despite their insistence on overlooking me year after year, the MacArthur grant announcement is one of my favorite things. It’s one on a short list of things that give me hope for the species.
We’ll see. I don’t see any reason to follow the drama day by day. Que sera sera.
Ps I think Joe Manchin is a small, corrupt and petty little man and has way to much power. Double for Sinema and they are both rather stupid
That’s some authentic
frontierMountaineer gibberish right there.
I disagree with this. If Democrats lose the House and Senate, progressives will lose child care, health care, gay rights, abortion rights, disability rights, voting rights, religious freedom, privacy rights, and action on immigration, climate change, and economic inequality. Some progressives may lose their status as people. That’s a lot to throw away.
Progressives’ problem is that no threat they can make to Manchin and Sinema has any teeth. If progressive voters withhold their support from the Democrats, they will lose and lose badly. If progressive legislators say fuck it and tank a compromise which their voters are depending on, the legislators will not share the suffering that their supporters will experience.
Manchin and Sinema, and more importantly their funders, know this perfectly well. As long as the Democrats’ failing to achieve anything leads to Democrats losing seats, the centrists are in a position where by holding firm this one time, they will make things easier for themselves in the long run and harder for the progressives. Giving in to the progressives this one time would make things easier for the progressives and harder for themselves.
If you were Manchin or Sinema, which course of action would you take?
The only way progressives can lobby people like Manchin and Sinema effectively is to back it up with the threat of bringing more Democrats to the next Congress and even more to the Congress after that, so if a bill doesn’t get done now, it’ll get done later with fewer concessions to the holdouts. Unless and until progressives can bring that threat to the table, Manchin and Sinema hold the cards.
Sucks, but that’s how it is.
I’ll put down my marker here. I think, like Another Scott, that we will pass the legislation and that it will be less than what we wanted but enough to campaign on. I also think that it will take while to do it. I’ll call the odds 70-30. And, as I have been urging patience with the process, I will add that, anyone, Manchin/Sinema or the the Progressive Caucus blow it up, I will happily join the pitchfork and torches brigade. Until then, I will hold my fire and wait for the sausage to get packaged up.
This is why I’m vegan.
@Chetan Murthy: Thanks for the book recommendation. If you like Roman history in general (hard not to find parallels to our troubles today), SPQR by Mary Beard is also good read.
OT (to NotMax too): Thanks for your tips about accessing NYT recipes without a subscription. One of my issues was I had the Cooking app on my tablet and it would automatically open and to a paywall. I deleted that and though I do have to log in with my old credentials and thus bear all the emails, I can access most recipes now.
@Baud: Every day ending in “y” DougJBalloon posts a couple of evergreen tweets:
So, I think today is a day ending in “y”.
@MomSense: Also Jacqueline Stewart (film/TCM) and Ibrahim Cissé, a biophysicist who happens to be a colleague of one of the family. Overall an excellent list, as usual.
The only thing Sinema needs to do to get Kelly support levels is say ‘I support the Democrats agenda’ which is quite popular with her voters. That’s it. Pretty much the same is true for Manchin wrt to infrastructure. Just say yes and your poll numbers go up. It’s not that hard.
I’m right there with you on that, and I appreciate your level-headed approach. It gives me hope, keeps me calm, and for that, I thank you.
Old Man Shadow
@Splitting Image: And if the Democrats collapse and say, “Well, I guess we’re only going to do bridges and roads for the next three years”, they’ll likely still lose both houses of Congress.
@Old Man Shadow: Even if they only got bridges and roads, and child care they would lose. It is what it is.
@Chetan Murthy: McConnell tried to dissuade his caucus members from going along with the bipsrtisan bill. His plan is to hamstring the Biden administration with austerity, like he tried to hamstring the Obama administration, and more or less succeeded.
McConnell is pursuing a scorched earth stategy. He would like nothing better than for Democrats to go scorched earth on themselves.
The course of action that 80% of the voters in your fucking state support.
@Omnes Omnibus: Yep, we shall see soon enough.
@Old Man Shadow:
Nothing about next year’s vote is conditional on the Democrats’ passing a large bill, a small bill, or one that simply renames a post office in Boise.
Voters are responsible for their own actions and anybody who declines to vote when it is necessary to keep Republicans out of power is as much to blame for the G.O.P. winning as the G.O.P voters themselves. And no, you don’t get to pass it off on the Democrats for what they did or didn’t do.
Yay! I find these awards so inspiring.
The grant recipients really are the best of us.
So very, very true.
@banditqueen: Manchin says “not designed to reengineer the social and economic fabric of this nation” as if letting the rich run away with all the wealth isn’t a design and a sort of darwinian social engineering.
I swear, these people accept economics, conservative austarian economics as if it’s fucking e=mc². It’s not immutable. It’s just a set of ideas of how resources can get shared (or hoarded).
@Baud: Hassan (NH), Cortez-Masto (NV), Warnock (GA), and Kelly (AZ) face tough reelection races in 2022. If they had to choose between a physical infrastructure bill only or no bill at all, they would choose the physical infrastructure bill in a heartbeat.
@Dennis: i guess she could lobby Republicans. Why would even they trust her after this performance?
Now to take Old Man Cole’s plan and go a step farther… have a subcommittee look at price gouging in the pharmaceutical industry for life saving drugs – Insulin, <cough> EpiPens <cough>. Maybe suggest, or remind some of the AUSAs that price gouging is illegal and maybe some of those CEO and C-level execs should do a short bid up in Shawshank. Then have a house committee led by Katie Porter who’s goal is to highlight and recommend for prosecution, conflicts of interest between various industries and the representatives they have purchased lock, stock, and barrel. Name names. Purge the corporatists from the ranks of the Democratic Party.
Have the President use the rest of his single term to hold weekly addresses from the Oval Office where he shows pictures of the various obstinate pricks that are fucking everything up – Manchin, Sinema, McConnell, etc. Explain that they are the reason that interest rates are about to skyrocket. They are the reason that you have to order your insulin from Canada or India b/c that’s the only way you can afford it. Point out that they are the reason that crops are dying and the climate is imploding. Weekly. If they fucked his presidency, least he can do is give some back – with interest.
Take the beating in 2022, understanding that the fuckwits of the GOP will fuck it up and try to reinstitute slavery, or some other fucked up shit, and the country will revolt, just in time for 2024. Expel Manchin and Simena from the party. Done. We ain’t getting shit done with em, so fuck em. See how the GOP lunatics like dealing with them. Fuck em all. Enough of this bringing prayer beads and hope to a fucking knife fight. We need to grow a fucking spine.
@Omnes Omnibus: FWIW I agree with you.
I’m gonna drink instead.
Who will she actually lobby? It won’t be democrats especially the congress flips. The GOP would just laugh at her. So I’m kind of at a loss on who will pay her to be a lobbyist after only being a one term senator.
@cain: I do not disapprove of this plan.
@seaninclt: sharpening my pitchforks as we speak
@cain: she’s a goddamn clown
@Jim Appleton: I’ve seen so much speculation about what career Sinema aspires to after the Senate. I’m not sure why. Senator is a high prestige job. I’ve never seen a former Senator, even those who lose reelection, fail to make a very good living if they want to.
@Old Man Shadow: You’d get over it.
Isn’t that great!
@Baud: I didn’t know those Impossible meat people had now enlisted blog commenters.
@Baud: Sly Stone agrees.
Are there any journalists worth following on the legislative process? I tire of the press corpse.
Who is a good reporter, and maybe relatively succinct, given the topic? I think we have a lot of journalists who just round up soundbites and seek out the controversy and drama llamas.
Well said !
@Old Man Shadow: “Bridges and roads”… and passenger rail, charging stations, electric school buses, and more. Plus good paying jobs for working class people. That’s nothing to sneeze at. Even if you don’t benefit directly, there are a lot of people in your community who will.
@Geminid: And it is something that people can see.
Green Tea Party wants to tank everything to preserve their purity of essence and to teach Manchin and Sinema a lesson. Is that a good synopsis of what is going on?
Seriously, this is promising, but we’ll see what happens. Presumably she wouldn’t be doing this if she didn’t have her caucus behind her.
@schrodingers_cat: ‘Everyone is talking’ is the better synopsis.
@Omnes Omnibus: Once parents see the cleaner air school kids breath, every school district will want electric buses. And communities will want the jobs building them.
The Biden Harris Pelosi Schumer team is the best we have and I’m not going to second guess them. Whatever result they get is the absolute best we could hope to get.
What we should do is repair our tattered social and economic fabric by investing some of our nation’s wealth in our own needs.
Why is it only considered illegitimate to spend taxpayer money on taxpayer needs?
@Omnes Omnibus: That is what is happening IRL, I am describing what’s happening on this blog and leftie/progressive Twitter.
@MomSense: And we talk it up as though it is the best thing since the invention of oral sex.
Ultimatums in effect threatening to punish the very people who voted them in? Not a good look.
Oh that? That is largely a lot of good people panicking because this whole thing means a lot.
@Baud: Something to read esides the Juice? Try @Mangy Jay!
@MomSense: Thank you for some sanity. Agreed.
This is the way
Click on the link in JWR’s post (76 for me), scroll down a bit, and read the transcript of Ayanna Pressley’s interview. You’ll know exactly what they think.
@MomSense: absolutely and if it fails, I will not blame that team at all…
Well, this is interesting. WaPost. Good luck, Matthew. Taking out Dan Patrick would be superb.
The longer this goes on, the image of Sinema doing her little John McCain thumbs-down, (with curtsey), move haunts my every dream. But we shall see. For now, I prefer to remain hopeful.
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m with you on raging in advance. For example, the most useless punditry (or sports reporting) is article after article on what’s going to happen, what’s liable to happen, what *I* think is going to happen. And getting pre-pissed off about it isn’t much better. I’m not taking a break but within 10-20 comments I’ll know if I want to continue.
ETA: Reading tea leaves and deciding what’s in someone else’s mind or what their motivation is, is something I’ve read enough of, too. None of us know.
@debbie: My comparison is apt. They want what they want and if they don’t get exactly what they want they are willing to burn it all down.
@Omnes Omnibus: I bet you would appreciate the thoughtful Mangy Jay.
Now that I think of it, I’ve never seen her and Tony Jay in the same room. Hmmm.
@Geminid: I read Mangy Jay on Twitter. Don’t tell anyone.
@schrodingers_cat: It’s perfectly reasonable for people to be upset that a duly elected Congressional majority is being forced to cater to the whims of a tiny minority (Cinnamanchin and the conventionally wise press that loves them).
No one is suggesting withholding votes from Democrats or that we should be actively working to blow up negotiations. However, it is no less legitimate for the far more numerous D supporters of both bills to use their votes as a negotiating tool than for the D holdouts.
@Geminid: Twitter? No thanks.
@Kropacetic: I have no problem with anyone in Congress taking up any kind of negotiating position they think necessary. I will have a problem with anyone who blows up a deal.
@Geminid: Twitter? No thanks.
@Baud: It is vegan friendly but not cruelty free.
@Omnes Omnibus: Agreed. We can’t waste this Congress.
@Baud: John Stoerh’s (sp?) The Editorial Board publishes some of Ms. Jay’s longer pieces. But I think they may be paywalled.
I read Another Scott and Omnes Omnibus and I’m leaving this thread while the going is good. I can’t get upset about what hasn’t happened yet, I have a long list of things actually happening around me that are already aggravating me. Not borrowing trouble.
I think I’ll go look at some pretty decorating sites instead.
Come to heal to save your country and your party, or have everything you advocate for die, forever.
You will be lobbyist poison, and die in a gutter.