It is Steve’s house. He lets you stay there because you feed him.?
11.
Kropacetic
Happy birthday Mama Cole.
My friend and I were discussing an aspect of raising children. Neither of us has one but consider it. He always sees me on here and wanted to pose something.to the community.
We were debating whether there’s an age before which a child should be protected from any portrayal of homosexuality.
Can children in early learning shows have gay parents? Should government or business enforce this?
12.
Juju
Happy Birthday Mama Cole. I hope your 80th birthday was everything you wanted.
He’s a handsome cat. When I read the header, I thought you might be referring to Joe Manchin, who is not as handsome as Steve.
Kids are going to learn pretty early that some families have a mom and a dad, some families have a mom but no dad, a small number of families have a dad but no mom, some families have two moms, and some families have two dads. It is unlikely to seem strange to them – heck, they don’t really know what’s strange and what isn’t. And there’s no rational reason to think it will do them any harm.
Now, I’m against showing gay sex to young kids, but I’m against showing them the heterosexual kind, too.
Kids will accept basically anything as normal if you present it that way. Since “parents” won’t be an unusual concept I don’t think “gay parents” is off limits for kids.
26.
schrodingers_cat
@SFBayAreaGal: He has furs he doesn’t need no stinking clothes.
@Kropacetic: My child’s been exposed to real life homosexuality since birth, since her aunts were her first visitors after she arrived earthside. I’m not quite sure what you’re asking? Little kids seeing devoted, happy, well-adjusted same-sex couples the same way they see opposite-sex couples normalizes being gay, and that’s a great thing. Some little kids are going to grow up to be gay, and having less internalized homophobia or stigmatization about it would be excellent for their mental health. Little kids shouldn’t really see anybody having sex, regardless of the personnel involved. Or, you know, basically what others have said.
Happy 80th Ms. Cole!
29.
eclare
Happy Birthday Mama Cole!
30.
Another Scott
@Kropacetic: IMHO, it’s a category error to be asking such questions. Especially when phrased in terms of “protection”.
Kids know that there are all kinds of families. Probably the best thing a teacher and school can do is be inclusive and not discriminatory – kids don’t pick their families.
My grandpa and his sister lived together (with my uncle as he was growing up) in a small town after their spouses died. There was nothing sexual about it and there was nothing weird about it.
My parents divorced when I was around 5. I had a feeling of shame about it, in school, but wasn’t really sure why – it just seemed like it was something to be ashamed of. Society was telling us (via TV, etc.) that marriage was forever. I’m not saying I was scarred by it, but it made me think about things that I probably would have been better off not worrying about at that age.
This is one of the things that good teachers know how to address, if they’re given the support to do so.
@Kropacetic: People have been arguing about whether Bert and Ernie on Sesame Street are a gay couple for years. Mr. Rudbek always thought that they got along like brothers. I never thought about it at all when I was a kid.
What do you consider a “portrayal of homosexuality”? Compare and contrast with a “portrayal of heterosexuality.” Is it a kiss? A caress? Something more?
My niece and nephew (ages 7 and 5) have two dads—have always had two dads. That’s “normal” to them, to the extent that they even “evaluate” what’s normal—which they don’t. They have two dads, end of story.
I’ma stop now, because this is irritating me more the more that I think about it.
37.
Ohio Mom
Happy Birthday Mama Cole!
Thanks for the frog pictures, I really enjoy them, and wishing you all the best in the coming year.
38.
dr. bloor
He’s right. Now go open a can of toona for him, you layabout.
Yup, at least in the theatre world, there are all sorts of type of folks with kids: gay, lesbian, non binary, etc. And kids take it in with no problem. Parents, too, or else you’d really cut into the babysitter pool….
We were debating whether there’s an age before which a child should be protected from any portrayal of homosexuality.
Can children in early learning shows have gay parents? Should government or business enforce this?
As a retired family therapist, I believe that the healthy approach to raising children is to talk with them about the world in a real way. That means real people and real relationships and real families. There are ways to talk with kids about the world at their level, of course. But “protecting” them from knowing that there are gay parents? No, I don’t see that as healthy or protective.
I don’t understand what you mean by government enforcement. If you mean laws that bar discrimination, we have them.
46.
Chetan Murthy
@Kropacetic: First, I think everybody thinks that children should not be introduced to “sex acts” until they’re a certain age. So let’s set that aside. After that, it all boils down to what do you think is natural?
Are interracial parents/marriages “natural” ? Are single parents “natural” ? I would think they are. And in the same way, are same-sex marriages/parents natural? I’d like to think they are, and in *precisely* the same way that the first two kinds of parenting are natural.
We’re not *protecting* children when we *deprive* them of the knowledge that people of the same gender different races can form healthy and loving relationships and make a warm home for their offspring.
Thanks for the pic of his Majesty. He is resplendent, as always.
50.
CCL
Happy birthday, mom Cole. Thanks for the frog pics!
51.
MomSense
Damn he’s magnificent.
Happy birthday mama Cole!
52.
Dan B
@Kropacetic: It would have been miraculous to have gay people on TV when I was a kid. I was essentially depressed from age twelve until sophomore year of college when I found gay people in Chicago. Most kids these days have seen LGBTQ people on TV and it seems to be a problem for adults in their lives and for a very small, but vocal, percentage of their peers. The number of young people who identify as not straight keeps growing. If the right wing regains power this may change. In fact if the Supremes get a chance sodomy laws and pornography may be regulated by states. If kids see LGBTQ people as no big deal we may emerge from an authoritarian coup.
There are many advantages. However if your underlying feeling is that LGBTQ people are at their core all about sex then you have embraced the core of homophobia and how we must protect the children!
53.
HumboldtBlue
@gwangung:
Theater/band/chorus played a huge role in my upbringing and you’re correct, I knew and was on stage with men and women who were gay at the age of seven, men and women who were friends with my parents and who had earned their trust being the wonderful humans they were.
My parents were no flaming liberals, at this point they sorta went hardcore Catholic, but social justice, decency for all were cornerstones. My father is certainly a far different man than he would have been without the family he and mom created, and his growth has been forced on him.
He was raised by a flaming racist mother who had to eat a lot of crow the first time she sat down at Sunday dinner with our new black sister-in-law. They let us be thinkers and we thunk and our home was home to a lot of misfits oddballs and weirdos, and it made a huge difference.
54.
Mary G
Happy Birthday Mama Cole! Wishing you many more years of photographing frogs.
55.
Caphilldcne
@Kropacetic: wow. I’m a gay man who doesn’t have kids despite greatly wanting kids. I grew up in the 70s and 80s in a Roman Catholic, military family. I went to high school in Nebraska and joined the Air Force when being gay was a thought crime (before don’t ask don’t tell which did not turn out to be an improvement). I didn’t marry the love of my life because he was an immigrant and by the time marriage became available we’d lived 12,000 miles apart for 8 years and broke up). You and your buddy have no idea how much damage you have done to people like me casually discussing how having gay parents might somehow damage your precious child? What if your child is gay? Most gay kids grow up in straight families and have to figure out that they’re different. And people kick them out because of religion. And my trans brothers and sisters have it worse. You can’t figure this out?? And the commenters are being too nice to you. You have no clue. Talk about playing on the easiest level. Fuck you. Fuck your goddamn friend.
56.
Starfish
@Kropacetic: Children of all ages have gay parents so there is no age at which they should be lied to and told gay parents do not exist.
There was even a trans-parent at my child’s elementary school.
57.
Dan B
@Steeplejack: It’s right to be angry. Every minority has been portrayed as a threat to kids, sexual threat. The threats have come from repressed figures like priests and other authority figures. Why is the question not: Should small children be exposed to priests? Or, Should small children be left in the care of powerful men?
58.
Dan B
@Poe Larity: Wait a minute! I have two photogenic cats!!
Oh, nevermind. I’m ruled by two cute cats…..
59.
Caphilldcne
And thanks for hijacking a perfectly nice thread. Steve looks great. Happy birthday Mama Cole. Goddam. This literally ruined my night. Well that and I was attempting to deliver dinner to a friend who just got out of the hospital. Sadly he had two shootings within blocks of his house and traffic was fucked. Friday night in DC. It’s nice here but there are days when you wonder ….
60.
Eric S.
Happy birthday Mama Cole!
61.
Starfish
@Dan B: The government of Texas is a sexual threat to kids. I don’t have a subscription to read the article, but it is bad.
@Caphilldcne: Thank you, I second all of it except your personal story, although mine has some echoes even of that. I was otherwise occupied and couldn’t address Kropacetic right away, which is probably just as well, because you said everything I would have said without the extreme profanity I would have been tempted to use.
I mean, WTF?
63.
BigJimSlade
Happy birthday to Mama Cole! And Steve looks wonderfully imperious.
64.
Dan B
@Caphilldcne: You put it clearly. There are many people, including my partner’s brother and wife who have no clue and would not notice for long that our safety and our opportunities were at stake.
@JanieM: thanks for this. I felt bad posting that. I don’t like showing my anger. I almost deleted it.
We are here. We are queer. ACT UP. Fight Back. Stop erasing us.
And again I’m going to say it’s even worse erasure for our transgender friends who have been immediately and directly targeted by republicans. Please stop “debating” about us with your friends.
Happy Birthday Mrs. Cole! That is a nice photo of Steve.
74.
Dan B
@Caphilldcne: They screamed at us Thanksgiving 2016 that gay marriage was settled law – screamed. Apparently we were ungrateful for being uncomfortable with TFG’s election. And have no idea that there is no federal civil rights law for LGBTQ people.
Attorney, no less.
75.
prostratedragon
Happy birthday, Mrs. Cole!
For Steve, “Imperial March” from The Last Emperor, David Byrne:
I hope your mother had a wonderful B-day and B-day dinner! She raised you and keeps your dad in line….
Thinking it over I hope she has some excellent blind spots.
//s
78.
Caphilldcne
@Kropacetic: I need to address you directly. I am going to assume that your questions are in good faith and not meant to cause ill will (and as my early reaction shows, they have)
We were debating whether there’s an age before which a child should be protected from any portrayal of homosexuality.
the answer is no. Homosexuality is a part of human experience that has likely been occurring since before Homo sapiens existed. There are many examples of homosexuality in non-human species and it is long documented in history. I’m not giving you cites because this is easily looked up I suggest google.
Can children in early learning shows have gay parents?
yes? Why not? Gay parents are normal and it is not even that unusual now there are religious organizations that might suggest otherwise. This is not a country based on religion. Why should this be a concern.
Should government or business enforce this?
Interesting question. It is normal to have both gay parents and/or to be gay. Neither private business nor Government should prohibit viewing of these normal relationships. I personally argue government should foster appropriate consensual relationships. And yes private entities should certainly feel free to advertise or promote these relationships. Obviously there is an audience to be reached myself among them
Ok, that’s as polite as I can be. I can’t believe you feel entitled to debate whether my and millions of other peoples lives deserve being talked about among young children. we’re not some dirty secret.
79.
The Dangerman
I’ve seen that pose previously. Jabba the Hut? Photoshop on Carrie a fisher and you hot something.
80.
Caphilldcne
@Dan B: same. I’m a lawyer. They’re going after Griswold and they will use overruling that to erase any rights we may currently have. Sadly women, trans people and African American/Latin people are targets as well.
81.
MomSense
@Kropacetic:
I think that children, even if raised in supportive homes, are exposed to so much anti LGBTQ messaging that parents have to provide pro LGBTQ content and examples ideally from the beginning and certainly before pre school. If your child is LGBTQ they need to know it’s supported and positive before they are exposed to the negative.
I was trying to remember a video I saw about this way back in the early 90s. My dad’s church had a new/expecting parents group and he invited me to go watch a film with them. The gist of it was that you may not know for a number of years whether or not your child is LGBTQ but you can make sure that they have positive feelings and experiences about being LGBTQ.
It influenced my teaching as well. I taught performing arts in public schools and in my classes and performances we didn’t adhere to the traditional roles. It was awesome. Our classes were so much fun and they were a safe space. Never struggled with casting for the productions. There were probably some uncomfortable parents, but the energy and the performances were so good that it worked. Imagine a stage full of couples Latin dancing in all combinations of partners. For the next production and class I would have kids sign up because they realized they could express themselves and be themselves.
Of course we lost funding every year until my last year when I had a budget of zero per student, was reduced to a cart and hallways or corners of the lunchroom. It was beautiful while it lasted and I’m still in touch with a lot of former students .
82.
CaseyL
Steve is a magnificent emperor; you are fortunate to be his subject.
Happy Birthday to Mama Cole! May she have a terrific birthday weekend, too!
83.
stinger
Happy Birthday, Mama Cole! I bow before Steve the Mighty (who looks an awful lot like my Gina, including the pose).
This other discussion that’s come up is really something. Should we protect children from portrayals of kids who are homeless? Portrayals of the death of a beloved pet? Of the death of a grandparent, of a sibling with physical or mental disability? These situations are more challenging than “Ashlee has two dads”. But children may encounter any of them in real life at any age.
@Kropacetic: My kids are pretty young (both under 7) and they learned about homosexual parents super early. Like, 2 or 3.
They still think of male/female pairings as the default, and the characters from shows they emulate are pretty much all straight (most of them are kids, so that makes sense). But they also don’t think that it’s weird if someone has two mommies or two daddies. Doesn’t phase them at all.
87.
the pollyanna from hell
Something ate my comment. Roommate dachshunden? No, I think more stealthy and Steve-like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZKNiKx_DD4 My friend Tim Murphy as soloist with Charlotte in Cohen’s Anthem 11 years ago in Denver. Tim’s funeral is tomorrow.
He is a magnificent bastard, and cat servants like you should never forget it.
And happy birthday to Mama Cole!
89.
Kropacetic
Sorry, I should have communicated I’d be AWOL for a bit. This was all helpful, he read from the passenger seat we just parked.
@Scout211: Exactly, kid’s are always going to pick this stuff up organically. What’s the harm in having it incorporated in art the same way a similar heterosexual relationship would be depicted in the same show? Better than having their first encounter with live homosexuals be when they have no clue and a big mouth.
A lot of this goes to what some have said that it isn’t healthy to deprive information.
I don’t understand what you mean by government enforcement. If you mean laws that bar discrimination, we have them
That, for the one side or in the unlikely event someone here took the opposition; should companies be allowed to produce such media, if so should they not anyway? Is it a parent’s responibility to do all their shielding?
@Kropacetic: Since I don’t want to blow a perfectly nice thread by going thermonuclear, I’ll just say my life is not your (and your friends) thought experiment.
Oh, fuck it… your question is unimaginably insulting when the reactionaries are busy trying to stuff us back into the closet. A huge part of the non-stop on trans kids* is to eradicate us — and that’s not a term I use lightly — from public life. To make us feel isolated and alone, like we’re the only one on earth. To encourage us to kill ourselves because there’s no place for us in society.
Maybe we should be talking about protecting young kids from portrayals of toxic heterosexuality instead — stalking as romantic obsession, he hit me and it felt like a kiss, etc.
*Yes I know your question was about “portrayals of homosexuality” but it’s the same exact argument being used against trans people.
92.
Kropacetic
@Antonius: How much effort are you going to put into protecting them from heterosexuality?
I love this. And yes, to the person who asked if I was serious. We needed additional opinions because there was mutual incredulity.
93.
the pollyanna from hell
@Kropacetic:
The family hour television programming failed almost 40 years ago partly because so many sitcom families wanted to add gay members.
94.
Kropacetic
@Sister Golden Bear: I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to cause any offense. We were both very set in and I know this is a supportive community. Yes, I let him know beforehand.
This helped us. It gave us things to talk about. I had promised to phrase the question as neutrally as possible. I actually adore you. I still have material saved from things you’ve posted.
Thank you
95.
ellie
Steve is beautiful! Happy Birthday Mama Cole!
96.
Kropacetic
@MomSense: I hadn’t even considered the prevalence of anti LQBTQ messaging. It isn’t just, “should I let them know?” It’s important to counter the messages that would condition kids to react negatively toward people for just who they are for any reason.
And whatever need people have to see their own experience reflected in media, i think that’s more so for kids. They’ll find something and what they choose to grab onto is very important at that age.
we’re wild, man. You never know what those crazy kids might say. I’m betting if you just tell them that some kids have two daddies or mommies they’ll be fine. You can also let them know that if they don’t feel comfortable with their assigned gender that they are fine and should go with what they want.
as for you, congrats on a fine trolling. You totally got me going. I’m stopping now but that was nicely painful. Great waste of time. Thanks, buddy!
Children need parents. Be loving parents. End of discussion.
This from a straight guy with a sister, now passed, who’s partner I met 45 yrs ago who became one of my very best friends. I’ve met more gay people through knowing her than I could have ever have otherwise. She’s past now as well. But I’m still friends with several of them. Unless you are trying not to be human it doesn’t matter, be loving parents, that’s all that matters.
99.
Kropacetic
@Caphilldcne: I was being flippant. I like to keep things light. I was trying to illustrate a negative consequence to keeping a child ignorant.
Maybe read better before calling someone a troll. Some people who recognize me here probably remember I’m gay.
100.
Caphilldcne
@Kropacetic: Your earlier comment wasn’t flippant or light. No one here said oh gosh he’s just making a joke. So it wasn’t as snarky or clear as you thought. Maybe think twice before shitposting you little sob. I’m a lawyer btw. I read pretty well.
I was being flippant. I like to keep things light. I was trying to illustrate a negative consequence to keeping a child ignorant.
No, you just came across as a dumbass.
102.
Kropacetic
@Caphilldcne: My question produced a lot of very positive answers that are supportive of LGBTQ people which, if you read my other posts including the one you responded to, I am in full agreement with.
I even apologized to someone who posed their objection less trollishly than you.
So what’s the issue here?
103.
Caphilldcne
@Kropacetic: also, hon, you stole Mama Cole’s thread with your bs so just stop now.
104.
Ruckus
I’ve been away from the computer for a while and saw the comment that has seemed to raise a lot of questions and some strong answers. Also a lot of very good answers. So now I have to hit the headlines.
Happy 80th mama Cole. Your son is somewhat weird but then that’s a lot better than rigid and sad. He has humanity, among other things. You did good.
This isn’t the first time an out-of-stater has tried to tell West Virginians what is best for them despite having no relationship to our state. Millions of jobs are open, supply chains are strained and unavoidable inflation taxes are draining workers’ hard-earned wages as the price of gasoline and groceries continues to climb. Senator Sanders’ answer is to throw more money on an already overheated economy while 52 other Senators have grave concerns about this approach. To be clear, again, Congress should proceed with caution on any additional spending and I will not vote for a reckless expansion of government programs. No op-ed from a self-declared Independent socialist is going to change that.
A notable part of Manchin’s attitude is that it’s somehow offensive for other Democratic pols—whether it’s the sitting Vice President or a Senator who won a primary in WV five years ago—to even attempt to speak directly to voters or interact with media in the Mountain State.
Meanwhile Senator Manchin publishes op-eds here on my island [Manhattan] whenever he wants to kill a piece of civil rights legislation or gut a social spending bill.
It’s also notable how Manchin counts himself and Senator Sinema with the Republicans in this statement to reach fifty-two.
I was holding out for a late-night Anne Laurie thread, but it doesn’t seem to be in the offing.
106.
Kropacetic
@HumboldtBlue: Balloon Juice should sponsor a pet olympics. What can we have for events?
Track and field? opening food products?
Posing for pictures could have whole divisions; perch dogging, intimidating countenance, saddest eyes
107.
JAFD
Happy birthday, Mama Cole! And many more.
108.
Caphilldcne
@Kropacetic: My dude, you posted a kinda homophobic post that apparently you intended to use with your buddy. It’s a bit like the woman who scratched a backwards B on her face to try to say “B”arak Obama supporters were violent. Just tell us you’ve got a buddy who’s a homophobic jerk and you need some answers. You being gay does not make it cool that you’re posting homophobic bullshit even if you get good responses. I’m now irritated that you raised my blood pressure even a smidgeon. And you hijacked Mama Cole who turned 80. Who even does that (turns 80) these days. I’m 56 and gonna die in a year. So I signed up for a 5K. It’s the 29th. I’ll check in if I’m not dead from running.
109.
Kropacetic
@Caphilldcne: Checks: “Open thread.” There’s whole third, fourth, and even more topics going on here. Check out some of those. People will engage with what they choose. Most chose to engage positively. Take a page from your fellow Balloon Juicers.
Happy Birthday, again, Mama Cole. Your son put together a good community here. They all demonstrated here tonight that even if they can’t always agree on the best way to show it, they want to treat people right.
110.
Dan B
@Steeplejack: You’re right but Paul Lynde was decades after my childhood and teenage years. I feel as though I’m having an asthma attack when I recollect on those years.
It’s amazing that so many people have no comprehension of the horrors LGBTQ harbor in deep recesses of our psyches.
111.
Caphilldcne
@Kropacetic: nice deflection. Done with you. You’re the only person I’ve pied. Congrats.
I take it that the questioner is known here? Seemed like an obvious troll, but y’all engaged with such thoughtful sincerity, from many different angles, I was reminded again of what a great bunch you jackals are, engaging and open. That said, I was surprised it took so far into the thread before some said, WTF?
It was a joke. But I take your point. Even as a run-of-the-mill straight kid in the ’60s I realized that there was more than met the eye on the surface, so to speak. Part of it was that as an Air Force brat I moved approximately every three years and I always had the feeling of being a bit of an outsider, which meant being an observer, to see how to fit in and to observe how others did or did not fit in.
I would say not unknown but not a regular. Their first comment struck me as somewhat clueless but not malicious, but the subsequent comments went downhill from there.
Part is actually an element of fear of backlash and losing some hard-won rights. There are some assumptions going around here that aren’t quite right. For starters, my friend is gay too. This blindsided me, but isn’t coming from the place some are thinking.
What I was appreciative of was, as has been noted, how positive/supportive/considered/informed the whole discussion was. Suspect many of those early responders had some doubt about where the question was coming from and still engaged in a most kind and open way. (and really, the interwebs considered, this really hasn’t gone downhill)
121.
Kropacetic
@weasel: I agree. And of the people who took offense, I apologized to SGB who, again, I adore. I only recently noticed Dan B among them after following reply chains (I read from the bottom). I apologize to you too.
I know that this type of thing is practically beyond debate here. Not the best use of the Balloon Juice brain trust, so I’m sorry to everyone about that. Though I’m still happy about tenor of the general response.
122.
opiejeanne
@Caphilldcne: What do you mean, you’re going to die in a year? I don’t think I got that memo, and I hope you’re kidding.
Happy Birthday, Mom Cole!
123.
mrmoshpotato
Look at that magnificent bastard! Enjoying some cat videos no doubt.
And happy 80th – and many more – to Mama Cole!
124.
Martin
Until the picture loaded I thought this was a Manchin rant starting out.
Anyway, if Manchin scuttles the climate provisions in Biden’s infrastructure bill, then I’m fully in favor of California completely gutting West Virginia economically. Not about to let 15,000 coal miners fuck over the future of every person under 30.
125.
Kropacetic
@Martin: I’m fully in favor of California completely gutting West Virginia economically.
How does California accomplish this?
Some progress on emissions has been made with interstate compacts. I wonder what more can be done with that idea.
126.
Martin
@Kropacetic: WV needs industries to fill the coal void. Addressing climate change opens a lot of opportunities for those, which WV could compete for, especially with some legislative help. California can stay out of some legislative fights. Or California can push to take those industries for itself, and we have the funding to do that.
CA has more influence over the US economy than any other state, by far. CA can and routinely does push energy policies that have national impact. I’ve wanted WV to get federal help here to pivot to new industries, but if they refuse the help when it’s offered to them, for free, then like people who refuse to get vaccinated, at some point you have to just cut them loose.
We can do this together, as a nation, or we can do this from the states in a winner take all manner.
To give an example, even if coal was removed from power generation, it might still have a role in other industrial processes like steel making. Or rather than try and capture the steel/coke emissions, we can remove coal from the process and use hydrogen. CA can either invest in those processes or mandate them for certain applications, like state funded infrastructure forcing the industry away from the use of coal in steelmaking. We don’t have to care how the emissions problem is solved, or we can take a side.
127.
Mary G
Please stop feeding the pie.
128.
Kropacetic
@Martin: WV needs industries to fill the coal void. Addressing climate change opens a lot of opportunities for those, which WV could compete for, especially with some legislative help.
Preach.
CA has more influence over the US economy than any other state, by far. CA can and routinely does push energy policies that have national impact. I’ve wanted WV to get federal help here to pivot to new industries, but if they refuse the help when it’s offered to them, for free, then like people who refuse to get vaccinated, at some point you have to just cut them loose.
I wonder if the state of CA fully divested from WV business, how much of their economy would that be. May try to research that one in the morning? Would other states come along? (Probably, if so)
At this point, I find it extremely difficult to believe that we going to hold on to either the House or the Senate in 2022 and the prospect of 2024 fills me with despair.
131.
lowtechcyclist
Happy 80th birthday to Mama Cole!
My FIL celebrates his 80th birthday next weekend, we’re going down to FL to help him celebrate. (No, he didn’t retire there; he was fucking born there, as were his parents etc.)
And who says he isn’t? (I’m bowing down as I type this.)
Also, happy birthday to your mom. :-)
139.
evodevo
@Chetan Murthy: It wasn’t the “norm” in the Fifties – in fact there were laws on the books about a lot of it – and so the Talibangelicals want it gone. That’s the ONLY reason you are hearing about any of this on Fixed News/talk radio/etc. They can’t handle it…
The only portrayals of homosexuality I had while growing up were banishment of one uncle from family / holiday gatherings (bc GAY). An aunt joining a sect to avoid being gay. When she joined, her personality radically changed for the worse. 50% of my uncle’s friends all dead from AIDS and the government not doing a thing for years. Thanks to the likes of people like Anthony Fauci, Louise Hay, individual people, there was some humanity.
Other portrayals of homosexuality were all negative. Neighbors, school kids (gay boys were heat seeking missiles), any portrayal in songs (Strange Ways by the Kingston Trio, for example), tv, radio, sports, religion, newspapers, everything everywhere everywhere, how much could you be killed or maimed or denied employment or livelihood.
It was not a very good environment to be a lesbian. I had it easier than my uncle. A cousin has it easier than me and uncle. And so on.
Mama Cole is 80? Fantastique! Bonne Fete and more importantly Happy Birthday.
141.
Caphilldcne
@opiejeanne: sorry I just meant I’m gettin’ older. I think that’s a sarcastic phrase that makes more sense out loud in conversation than written down.
142.
Noskilz
A belated “Happy Birthday!” to your mom.
143.
opiejeanne
@Caphilldcne: Thanks for clarifying, and that’s what I was hoping.
144.
dearmaizie
Stepping out of my lurk to say yes, he is magnificent but could use a quick Furm, Happy Birthday to your mother whom I do not know (or you either for that matter), my these comments do wander, and are you feeding that cat on your chair??
145.
Madeleine
Late to thread, but . . . I hope Mama Cole had a very happy 80th, and thst she’ll enjoy a great year!
And it’s always a pleasure to see the Pasha.
146.
Another Scott
@dearmaizie: Steve only gets his wafer thin mint there.
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
147.
Villago Delenda Est
Happy birthday, Mama Cole! Also, too, you will bow before your master, John.
148.
DonnaK
I bend the knee to King Steve!
149.
SWMBO
Happy Birthday, Mama Cole!
150.
dp
Happy Birthday, Mama Cole!
151.
brantl
Happy Birthday Mrs. Cole. And many happy more, to come.
152.
brantl
@Steeplejack: Paul Lynde was a gay couple, all by himself!
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StringOnAStick
Tata
Happy Birthday, Mama Cole!
Also: that’s some fucking guy.
West of the Rockies
Looks like he’s watching Netflix and chillin’ like a villain.
AJ
Happy birthday Mama Cole! ?
debbie
@West of the Rockies:
Love all the purplish reflections on his fur.
Amir Khalid
You can’t deny he looks quite imperious in that picture.
A very happy birthday to Mother Cole.
HumboldtBlue
What a fucking guy. Happy birthday to mom as well.
Here’s another animal being that fucking guy.
Liminal Owl (formerly The Fat White Duchess)
Happy Birthday, Mama Cole.
Steve is a gorgeous emperor.
Ken
Multiverse.
And happy birthday to Mama Cole.
rikyrah
Happy Birthday, Mama Cole.??????????
And Cole,
It is Steve’s house. He lets you stay there because you feed him.?
Kropacetic
Happy birthday Mama Cole.
My friend and I were discussing an aspect of raising children. Neither of us has one but consider it. He always sees me on here and wanted to pose something.to the community.
We were debating whether there’s an age before which a child should be protected from any portrayal of homosexuality.
Can children in early learning shows have gay parents? Should government or business enforce this?
Juju
Happy Birthday Mama Cole. I hope your 80th birthday was everything you wanted.
He’s a handsome cat. When I read the header, I thought you might be referring to Joe Manchin, who is not as handsome as Steve.
Quiltingfool
Happy Birthday, Mama Cole!
A picture of Steve! My evening is complete! My goodness, what a magnificent beast!
PaulWartenberg
Happy Birthday MAMA COLE.
Also, cats own us.
Another Scott
Happy Birthday to Mama Cole! I hope the dinner and cake were great.
Cheers,
Scott.
SFBayAreaGal
The emperor has no clothes. Love you Emperor Steve
Happy birthday Mama Cole. I hope your day was full of love, laughter, and fun.
Tehanu
Happy birthday to your mom. As for Steve, it’s really true that dogs have masters, but cats have staff.
Steeplejack
Happy birthday, Mama Cole! ??
Also Bro’ Man’s birthday today.
randy khan
@Kropacetic:
Kids are going to learn pretty early that some families have a mom and a dad, some families have a mom but no dad, a small number of families have a dad but no mom, some families have two moms, and some families have two dads. It is unlikely to seem strange to them – heck, they don’t really know what’s strange and what isn’t. And there’s no rational reason to think it will do them any harm.
Now, I’m against showing gay sex to young kids, but I’m against showing them the heterosexual kind, too.
raven
Happy Birthday, GO DAWGS!!!
randy khan
@randy khan:
Happy birthday, Momma Cole!
As for Steve, well, he has no reason to think he’s *not* emperor of the universe.
zhena gogolia
Happy birthday, Mama Cole!
zhena gogolia
Does Steve get his dinner in the recliner chair?
Jackie
Happy Birthday to Mama Cole!
Magnificent is too tame of a word to describe the royalty oozing from Steve. He reigns the roost and does so with aplomb!
guachi
@Kropacetic:
Kids will accept basically anything as normal if you present it that way. Since “parents” won’t be an unusual concept I don’t think “gay parents” is off limits for kids.
schrodingers_cat
@SFBayAreaGal: He has furs he doesn’t need no stinking clothes.
eclare
@raven:
Is GameDay from Athens tomorrow?
Argiope
@Kropacetic: My child’s been exposed to real life homosexuality since birth, since her aunts were her first visitors after she arrived earthside. I’m not quite sure what you’re asking? Little kids seeing devoted, happy, well-adjusted same-sex couples the same way they see opposite-sex couples normalizes being gay, and that’s a great thing. Some little kids are going to grow up to be gay, and having less internalized homophobia or stigmatization about it would be excellent for their mental health. Little kids shouldn’t really see anybody having sex, regardless of the personnel involved. Or, you know, basically what others have said.
Happy 80th Ms. Cole!
eclare
Happy Birthday Mama Cole!
Another Scott
@Kropacetic: IMHO, it’s a category error to be asking such questions. Especially when phrased in terms of “protection”.
Kids know that there are all kinds of families. Probably the best thing a teacher and school can do is be inclusive and not discriminatory – kids don’t pick their families.
My grandpa and his sister lived together (with my uncle as he was growing up) in a small town after their spouses died. There was nothing sexual about it and there was nothing weird about it.
My parents divorced when I was around 5. I had a feeling of shame about it, in school, but wasn’t really sure why – it just seemed like it was something to be ashamed of. Society was telling us (via TV, etc.) that marriage was forever. I’m not saying I was scarred by it, but it made me think about things that I probably would have been better off not worrying about at that age.
This is one of the things that good teachers know how to address, if they’re given the support to do so.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Professor Bigfoot
Happy birthday, Mama Cole!!!
schrodingers_cat
Happy birthday ?? Mama Cole ?
LeftCoastYankee
Fixed it for you.
Kayla Rudbek
@Kropacetic: People have been arguing about whether Bert and Ernie on Sesame Street are a gay couple for years. Mr. Rudbek always thought that they got along like brothers. I never thought about it at all when I was a kid.
Antonius
Hey! Happy birthday, Momma Cole!
Steeplejack
@Kropacetic:
What do you consider a “portrayal of homosexuality”? Compare and contrast with a “portrayal of heterosexuality.” Is it a kiss? A caress? Something more?
My niece and nephew (ages 7 and 5) have two dads—have always had two dads. That’s “normal” to them, to the extent that they even “evaluate” what’s normal—which they don’t. They have two dads, end of story.
I’ma stop now, because this is irritating me more the more that I think about it.
Ohio Mom
Happy Birthday Mama Cole!
Thanks for the frog pictures, I really enjoy them, and wishing you all the best in the coming year.
dr. bloor
He’s right. Now go open a can of toona for him, you layabout.
Also, HB Mom.
Steeplejack
@randy khan:
What you said. ?
Shalimar
Happy Birthday, Mama Cole!
Antonius
@Kropacetic: How much effort are you going to put into protecting them from heterosexuality?
MagdaInBlack
Thinks? That cat knows.
Happy Birthday Mama Cole
Poe Larity
IDK why you have calendar submissions when it should just have this pic of Steve for every month and the cover.
Maybe another calendar, titled the official calendar of the DPRK, and submissions for subtitles.
Since QVC gives me 2 for 1 everything, why can’t we get two calendars?
gwangung
Yup, at least in the theatre world, there are all sorts of type of folks with kids: gay, lesbian, non binary, etc. And kids take it in with no problem. Parents, too, or else you’d really cut into the babysitter pool….
Scout211
@Kropacetic:
As a retired family therapist, I believe that the healthy approach to raising children is to talk with them about the world in a real way. That means real people and real relationships and real families. There are ways to talk with kids about the world at their level, of course. But “protecting” them from knowing that there are gay parents? No, I don’t see that as healthy or protective.
I don’t understand what you mean by government enforcement. If you mean laws that bar discrimination, we have them.
Chetan Murthy
@Kropacetic: First, I think everybody thinks that children should not be introduced to “sex acts” until they’re a certain age. So let’s set that aside. After that, it all boils down to what do you think is natural?
Are interracial parents/marriages “natural” ? Are single parents “natural” ? I would think they are. And in the same way, are same-sex marriages/parents natural? I’d like to think they are, and in *precisely* the same way that the first two kinds of parenting are natural.
We’re not *protecting* children when we *deprive* them of the knowledge that people of
the same genderdifferent races can form healthy and loving relationships and make a warm home for their offspring.Scout211
Happy 80th Mama Cole! Congratulations.
DFH
Happy birthday, Mama Cole!
Ms. Deranged in AZ
Happy Birthday Mama Cole!!!
Thanks for the pic of his Majesty. He is resplendent, as always.
CCL
Happy birthday, mom Cole. Thanks for the frog pics!
MomSense
Damn he’s magnificent.
Happy birthday mama Cole!
Dan B
@Kropacetic: It would have been miraculous to have gay people on TV when I was a kid. I was essentially depressed from age twelve until sophomore year of college when I found gay people in Chicago. Most kids these days have seen LGBTQ people on TV and it seems to be a problem for adults in their lives and for a very small, but vocal, percentage of their peers. The number of young people who identify as not straight keeps growing. If the right wing regains power this may change. In fact if the Supremes get a chance sodomy laws and pornography may be regulated by states. If kids see LGBTQ people as no big deal we may emerge from an authoritarian coup.
There are many advantages. However if your underlying feeling is that LGBTQ people are at their core all about sex then you have embraced the core of homophobia and how we must protect the children!
HumboldtBlue
@gwangung:
Theater/band/chorus played a huge role in my upbringing and you’re correct, I knew and was on stage with men and women who were gay at the age of seven, men and women who were friends with my parents and who had earned their trust being the wonderful humans they were.
My parents were no flaming liberals, at this point they sorta went hardcore Catholic, but social justice, decency for all were cornerstones. My father is certainly a far different man than he would have been without the family he and mom created, and his growth has been forced on him.
He was raised by a flaming racist mother who had to eat a lot of crow the first time she sat down at Sunday dinner with our new black sister-in-law. They let us be thinkers and we thunk and our home was home to a lot of misfits oddballs and weirdos, and it made a huge difference.
Mary G
Happy Birthday Mama Cole! Wishing you many more years of photographing frogs.
Caphilldcne
@Kropacetic: wow. I’m a gay man who doesn’t have kids despite greatly wanting kids. I grew up in the 70s and 80s in a Roman Catholic, military family. I went to high school in Nebraska and joined the Air Force when being gay was a thought crime (before don’t ask don’t tell which did not turn out to be an improvement). I didn’t marry the love of my life because he was an immigrant and by the time marriage became available we’d lived 12,000 miles apart for 8 years and broke up). You and your buddy have no idea how much damage you have done to people like me casually discussing how having gay parents might somehow damage your precious child? What if your child is gay? Most gay kids grow up in straight families and have to figure out that they’re different. And people kick them out because of religion. And my trans brothers and sisters have it worse. You can’t figure this out?? And the commenters are being too nice to you. You have no clue. Talk about playing on the easiest level. Fuck you. Fuck your goddamn friend.
Starfish
@Kropacetic: Children of all ages have gay parents so there is no age at which they should be lied to and told gay parents do not exist.
There was even a trans-parent at my child’s elementary school.
Dan B
@Steeplejack: It’s right to be angry. Every minority has been portrayed as a threat to kids, sexual threat. The threats have come from repressed figures like priests and other authority figures. Why is the question not: Should small children be exposed to priests? Or, Should small children be left in the care of powerful men?
Dan B
@Poe Larity: Wait a minute! I have two photogenic cats!!
Oh, nevermind. I’m ruled by two cute cats…..
Caphilldcne
And thanks for hijacking a perfectly nice thread. Steve looks great. Happy birthday Mama Cole. Goddam. This literally ruined my night. Well that and I was attempting to deliver dinner to a friend who just got out of the hospital. Sadly he had two shootings within blocks of his house and traffic was fucked. Friday night in DC. It’s nice here but there are days when you wonder ….
Eric S.
Happy birthday Mama Cole!
Starfish
@Dan B: The government of Texas is a sexual threat to kids. I don’t have a subscription to read the article, but it is bad.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/commentary/2021/10/15/the-most-innocent-victims-of-texas-abortion-ban-children-forced-to-carry-their-abusers-baby/
JanieM
@Caphilldcne: Thank you, I second all of it except your personal story, although mine has some echoes even of that. I was otherwise occupied and couldn’t address Kropacetic right away, which is probably just as well, because you said everything I would have said without the extreme profanity I would have been tempted to use.
I mean, WTF?
BigJimSlade
Happy birthday to Mama Cole! And Steve looks wonderfully imperious.
Dan B
@Caphilldcne: You put it clearly. There are many people, including my partner’s brother and wife who have no clue and would not notice for long that our safety and our opportunities were at stake.
Steeplejack
@Dan B:
But Paul Lynde! //
JanieM
And — Happy Birthday Mama Cole!
I have nothing to say about the Emperor of the Fucking Universe that hasn’t already been said.
Kristine
Happy birthday, Mama Cole!
HumboldtBlue
@Steeplejack:
Larry Linville!
Gregory
Happy Birthday to Mama Cole!
Steeplejack
@HumboldtBlue:
No way—he was banging Hot Lips Houlihan!
Caphilldcne
@JanieM: thanks for this. I felt bad posting that. I don’t like showing my anger. I almost deleted it.
We are here. We are queer. ACT UP. Fight Back. Stop erasing us.
And again I’m going to say it’s even worse erasure for our transgender friends who have been immediately and directly targeted by republicans. Please stop “debating” about us with your friends.
Caphilldcne
@Dan B: agree. Sorry about your “in-laws”
HRA
Happy Birthday Mrs. Cole! That is a nice photo of Steve.
Dan B
@Caphilldcne: They screamed at us Thanksgiving 2016 that gay marriage was settled law – screamed. Apparently we were ungrateful for being uncomfortable with TFG’s election. And have no idea that there is no federal civil rights law for LGBTQ people.
Attorney, no less.
prostratedragon
Happy birthday, Mrs. Cole!
For Steve, “Imperial March” from The Last Emperor, David Byrne:
https://youtu.be/MI5DyZXcHVI
SFBayAreaGal
@schrodingers_cat: ?
Dan B
JC you serve a magnificent beast!
I hope your mother had a wonderful B-day and B-day dinner! She raised you and keeps your dad in line….
Thinking it over I hope she has some excellent blind spots.
//s
Caphilldcne
@Kropacetic: I need to address you directly. I am going to assume that your questions are in good faith and not meant to cause ill will (and as my early reaction shows, they have)
We were debating whether there’s an age before which a child should be protected from any portrayal of homosexuality.
the answer is no. Homosexuality is a part of human experience that has likely been occurring since before Homo sapiens existed. There are many examples of homosexuality in non-human species and it is long documented in history. I’m not giving you cites because this is easily looked up I suggest google.
Can children in early learning shows have gay parents?
yes? Why not? Gay parents are normal and it is not even that unusual now there are religious organizations that might suggest otherwise. This is not a country based on religion. Why should this be a concern.
Should government or business enforce this?
Interesting question. It is normal to have both gay parents and/or to be gay. Neither private business nor Government should prohibit viewing of these normal relationships. I personally argue government should foster appropriate consensual relationships. And yes private entities should certainly feel free to advertise or promote these relationships. Obviously there is an audience to be reached myself among them
Ok, that’s as polite as I can be. I can’t believe you feel entitled to debate whether my and millions of other peoples lives deserve being talked about among young children. we’re not some dirty secret.
The Dangerman
I’ve seen that pose previously. Jabba the Hut? Photoshop on Carrie a fisher and you hot something.
Caphilldcne
@Dan B: same. I’m a lawyer. They’re going after Griswold and they will use overruling that to erase any rights we may currently have. Sadly women, trans people and African American/Latin people are targets as well.
MomSense
@Kropacetic:
I think that children, even if raised in supportive homes, are exposed to so much anti LGBTQ messaging that parents have to provide pro LGBTQ content and examples ideally from the beginning and certainly before pre school. If your child is LGBTQ they need to know it’s supported and positive before they are exposed to the negative.
I was trying to remember a video I saw about this way back in the early 90s. My dad’s church had a new/expecting parents group and he invited me to go watch a film with them. The gist of it was that you may not know for a number of years whether or not your child is LGBTQ but you can make sure that they have positive feelings and experiences about being LGBTQ.
It influenced my teaching as well. I taught performing arts in public schools and in my classes and performances we didn’t adhere to the traditional roles. It was awesome. Our classes were so much fun and they were a safe space. Never struggled with casting for the productions. There were probably some uncomfortable parents, but the energy and the performances were so good that it worked. Imagine a stage full of couples Latin dancing in all combinations of partners. For the next production and class I would have kids sign up because they realized they could express themselves and be themselves.
Of course we lost funding every year until my last year when I had a budget of zero per student, was reduced to a cart and hallways or corners of the lunchroom. It was beautiful while it lasted and I’m still in touch with a lot of former students .
CaseyL
Steve is a magnificent emperor; you are fortunate to be his subject.
Happy Birthday to Mama Cole! May she have a terrific birthday weekend, too!
stinger
Happy Birthday, Mama Cole! I bow before Steve the Mighty (who looks an awful lot like my Gina, including the pose).
This other discussion that’s come up is really something. Should we protect children from portrayals of kids who are homeless? Portrayals of the death of a beloved pet? Of the death of a grandparent, of a sibling with physical or mental disability? These situations are more challenging than “Ashlee has two dads”. But children may encounter any of them in real life at any age.
frosty
Happy Birthday to Mama Cole! 80 is awesome.
the pollyanna from hell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZKNiKx_DD4 My friend Tim Murphy as the soloist with Charlotte in Cohen’s Anthem 11 years ago in Denver. Tim’s funeral is tomorrow.
MisterForkbeard
@Kropacetic: My kids are pretty young (both under 7) and they learned about homosexual parents super early. Like, 2 or 3.
They still think of male/female pairings as the default, and the characters from shows they emulate are pretty much all straight (most of them are kids, so that makes sense). But they also don’t think that it’s weird if someone has two mommies or two daddies. Doesn’t phase them at all.
the pollyanna from hell
Something ate my comment. Roommate dachshunden? No, I think more stealthy and Steve-like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZKNiKx_DD4 My friend Tim Murphy as soloist with Charlotte in Cohen’s Anthem 11 years ago in Denver. Tim’s funeral is tomorrow.
Sister Golden Bear
He is a magnificent bastard, and cat servants like you should never forget it.
And happy birthday to Mama Cole!
Kropacetic
Sorry, I should have communicated I’d be AWOL for a bit. This was all helpful, he read from the passenger seat we just parked.
@Scout211: Exactly, kid’s are always going to pick this stuff up organically. What’s the harm in having it incorporated in art the same way a similar heterosexual relationship would be depicted in the same show? Better than having their first encounter with live homosexuals be when they have no clue and a big mouth.
A lot of this goes to what some have said that it isn’t healthy to deprive information.
That, for the one side or in the unlikely event someone here took the opposition; should companies be allowed to produce such media, if so should they not anyway? Is it a parent’s responibility to do all their shielding?
Under edit
Steeplejack
@the pollyanna from hell:
Very moving. RIP, Tim Murphy. ?
Sister Golden Bear
@Kropacetic: Since I don’t want to blow a perfectly nice thread by going thermonuclear, I’ll just say my life is not your (and your friends) thought experiment.
Oh, fuck it… your question is unimaginably insulting when the reactionaries are busy trying to stuff us back into the closet. A huge part of the non-stop on trans kids* is to eradicate us — and that’s not a term I use lightly — from public life. To make us feel isolated and alone, like we’re the only one on earth. To encourage us to kill ourselves because there’s no place for us in society.
Maybe we should be talking about protecting young kids from portrayals of toxic heterosexuality instead — stalking as romantic obsession, he hit me and it felt like a kiss, etc.
*Yes I know your question was about “portrayals of homosexuality” but it’s the same exact argument being used against trans people.
Kropacetic
I love this. And yes, to the person who asked if I was serious. We needed additional opinions because there was mutual incredulity.
the pollyanna from hell
@Kropacetic:
The family hour television programming failed almost 40 years ago partly because so many sitcom families wanted to add gay members.
Kropacetic
@Sister Golden Bear: I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to cause any offense. We were both very set in and I know this is a supportive community. Yes, I let him know beforehand.
This helped us. It gave us things to talk about. I had promised to phrase the question as neutrally as possible. I actually adore you. I still have material saved from things you’ve posted.
Thank you
ellie
Steve is beautiful! Happy Birthday Mama Cole!
Kropacetic
@MomSense: I hadn’t even considered the prevalence of anti LQBTQ messaging. It isn’t just, “should I let them know?” It’s important to counter the messages that would condition kids to react negatively toward people for just who they are for any reason.
And whatever need people have to see their own experience reflected in media, i think that’s more so for kids. They’ll find something and what they choose to grab onto is very important at that age.
Caphilldcne
@Kropacetic:
”live homosexuals”
we’re wild, man. You never know what those crazy kids might say. I’m betting if you just tell them that some kids have two daddies or mommies they’ll be fine. You can also let them know that if they don’t feel comfortable with their assigned gender that they are fine and should go with what they want.
as for you, congrats on a fine trolling. You totally got me going. I’m stopping now but that was nicely painful. Great waste of time. Thanks, buddy!
Ruckus
@Kropacetic:
Children need parents. Be loving parents. End of discussion.
This from a straight guy with a sister, now passed, who’s partner I met 45 yrs ago who became one of my very best friends. I’ve met more gay people through knowing her than I could have ever have otherwise. She’s past now as well. But I’m still friends with several of them. Unless you are trying not to be human it doesn’t matter, be loving parents, that’s all that matters.
Kropacetic
@Caphilldcne: I was being flippant. I like to keep things light. I was trying to illustrate a negative consequence to keeping a child ignorant.
Maybe read better before calling someone a troll. Some people who recognize me here probably remember I’m gay.
Caphilldcne
@Kropacetic: Your earlier comment wasn’t flippant or light. No one here said oh gosh he’s just making a joke. So it wasn’t as snarky or clear as you thought. Maybe think twice before shitposting you little sob. I’m a lawyer btw. I read pretty well.
Steeplejack
@Kropacetic:
No, you just came across as a dumbass.
Kropacetic
@Caphilldcne: My question produced a lot of very positive answers that are supportive of LGBTQ people which, if you read my other posts including the one you responded to, I am in full agreement with.
I even apologized to someone who posed their objection less trollishly than you.
So what’s the issue here?
Caphilldcne
@Kropacetic: also, hon, you stole Mama Cole’s thread with your bs so just stop now.
Ruckus
I’ve been away from the computer for a while and saw the comment that has seemed to raise a lot of questions and some strong answers. Also a lot of very good answers. So now I have to hit the headlines.
Happy 80th mama Cole. Your son is somewhat weird but then that’s a lot better than rigid and sad. He has humanity, among other things. You did good.
Steeplejack
On topic, this fucking guy . . .
Joe Manchin:
@nycsouthpaw:
I was holding out for a late-night Anne Laurie thread, but it doesn’t seem to be in the offing.
Kropacetic
@HumboldtBlue: Balloon Juice should sponsor a pet olympics. What can we have for events?
Track and field? opening food products?
Posing for pictures could have whole divisions; perch dogging, intimidating countenance, saddest eyes
JAFD
Happy birthday, Mama Cole! And many more.
Caphilldcne
@Kropacetic: My dude, you posted a kinda homophobic post that apparently you intended to use with your buddy. It’s a bit like the woman who scratched a backwards B on her face to try to say “B”arak Obama supporters were violent. Just tell us you’ve got a buddy who’s a homophobic jerk and you need some answers. You being gay does not make it cool that you’re posting homophobic bullshit even if you get good responses. I’m now irritated that you raised my blood pressure even a smidgeon. And you hijacked Mama Cole who turned 80. Who even does that (turns 80) these days. I’m 56 and gonna die in a year. So I signed up for a 5K. It’s the 29th. I’ll check in if I’m not dead from running.
Kropacetic
@Caphilldcne: Checks: “Open thread.” There’s whole third, fourth, and even more topics going on here. Check out some of those. People will engage with what they choose. Most chose to engage positively. Take a page from your fellow Balloon Juicers.
Happy Birthday, again, Mama Cole. Your son put together a good community here. They all demonstrated here tonight that even if they can’t always agree on the best way to show it, they want to treat people right.
Dan B
@Steeplejack: You’re right but Paul Lynde was decades after my childhood and teenage years. I feel as though I’m having an asthma attack when I recollect on those years.
It’s amazing that so many people have no comprehension of the horrors LGBTQ harbor in deep recesses of our psyches.
Caphilldcne
@Kropacetic: nice deflection. Done with you. You’re the only person I’ve pied. Congrats.
weasel
@Caphilldcne: Thank you for that, very well said.
I take it that the questioner is known here? Seemed like an obvious troll, but y’all engaged with such thoughtful sincerity, from many different angles, I was reminded again of what a great bunch you jackals are, engaging and open. That said, I was surprised it took so far into the thread before some said, WTF?
Steeplejack
@Dan B:
It was a joke. But I take your point. Even as a run-of-the-mill straight kid in the ’60s I realized that there was more than met the eye on the surface, so to speak. Part of it was that as an Air Force brat I moved approximately every three years and I always had the feeling of being a bit of an outsider, which meant being an observer, to see how to fit in and to observe how others did or did not fit in.
Dan B
@Kropacetic: Sounds like an intellectual cop out.
You’re Talking about human beings.
Does that count?
Where is your friend confused?
Dan B
@Steeplejack: I believe you realize that stereotypes like Paul Lynde imply that all gay LGBTQ people are powerless and jokes.
Caphilldcne
@the pollyanna from hell:
I’m sorry for your loss. RIP Tim
Steeplejack
@weasel:
I would say not unknown but not a regular. Their first comment struck me as somewhat clueless but not malicious, but the subsequent comments went downhill from there.
Kropacetic
Part is actually an element of fear of backlash and losing some hard-won rights. There are some assumptions going around here that aren’t quite right. For starters, my friend is gay too. This blindsided me, but isn’t coming from the place some are thinking.
Steeplejack
@Dan B:
Jesus Christ, I was making a joke about just that—that back in the day gays, when portrayed at all, were presented as safe and laughable stereotypes.
weasel
@Steeplejack: Thanks for that background :)
What I was appreciative of was, as has been noted, how positive/supportive/considered/informed the whole discussion was. Suspect many of those early responders had some doubt about where the question was coming from and still engaged in a most kind and open way. (and really, the interwebs considered, this really hasn’t gone downhill)
Kropacetic
@weasel: I agree. And of the people who took offense, I apologized to SGB who, again, I adore. I only recently noticed Dan B among them after following reply chains (I read from the bottom). I apologize to you too.
I know that this type of thing is practically beyond debate here. Not the best use of the Balloon Juice brain trust, so I’m sorry to everyone about that. Though I’m still happy about tenor of the general response.
opiejeanne
@Caphilldcne: What do you mean, you’re going to die in a year? I don’t think I got that memo, and I hope you’re kidding.
Happy Birthday, Mom Cole!
mrmoshpotato
Look at that magnificent bastard! Enjoying some cat videos no doubt.
And happy 80th – and many more – to Mama Cole!
Martin
Until the picture loaded I thought this was a Manchin rant starting out.
Anyway, if Manchin scuttles the climate provisions in Biden’s infrastructure bill, then I’m fully in favor of California completely gutting West Virginia economically. Not about to let 15,000 coal miners fuck over the future of every person under 30.
Kropacetic
How does California accomplish this?
Some progress on emissions has been made with interstate compacts. I wonder what more can be done with that idea.
Martin
@Kropacetic: WV needs industries to fill the coal void. Addressing climate change opens a lot of opportunities for those, which WV could compete for, especially with some legislative help. California can stay out of some legislative fights. Or California can push to take those industries for itself, and we have the funding to do that.
CA has more influence over the US economy than any other state, by far. CA can and routinely does push energy policies that have national impact. I’ve wanted WV to get federal help here to pivot to new industries, but if they refuse the help when it’s offered to them, for free, then like people who refuse to get vaccinated, at some point you have to just cut them loose.
We can do this together, as a nation, or we can do this from the states in a winner take all manner.
To give an example, even if coal was removed from power generation, it might still have a role in other industrial processes like steel making. Or rather than try and capture the steel/coke emissions, we can remove coal from the process and use hydrogen. CA can either invest in those processes or mandate them for certain applications, like state funded infrastructure forcing the industry away from the use of coal in steelmaking. We don’t have to care how the emissions problem is solved, or we can take a side.
Mary G
Please stop feeding the pie.
Kropacetic
Preach.
I wonder if the state of CA fully divested from WV business, how much of their economy would that be. May try to research that one in the morning? Would other states come along? (Probably, if so)
mrmoshpotato
@Mary G: Little Shop of Horrors – Dessert! ?
Morzer
I’ve just seen Sinemanchin’s latest demands to butcher the Democratic party’s agenda:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/14/politics/manchin-sinema-disagreements-biden-agenda/index.html
At this point, I find it extremely difficult to believe that we going to hold on to either the House or the Senate in 2022 and the prospect of 2024 fills me with despair.
lowtechcyclist
Happy 80th birthday to Mama Cole!
My FIL celebrates his 80th birthday next weekend, we’re going down to FL to help him celebrate. (No, he didn’t retire there; he was fucking born there, as were his parents etc.)
Baud
@Morzer:
There’s no new information in that story.
bjacques
Happy birthday to yer mum, and skritches for This Fucking Guy!
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
Happy Birthday Mama Cole!
That cat KNOWS he owns all he surveys!
raven
@eclare: Yep!
JPL
Happy Birthday!
Geminid
@raven: Looks like you will have pretty weather for that game. Go Dawgs! If they can beat Tigers, they should be able to handle Wildcats.
J.
And who says he isn’t? (I’m bowing down as I type this.)
Also, happy birthday to your mom. :-)
evodevo
@Chetan Murthy: It wasn’t the “norm” in the Fifties – in fact there were laws on the books about a lot of it – and so the Talibangelicals want it gone. That’s the ONLY reason you are hearing about any of this on Fixed News/talk radio/etc. They can’t handle it…
Ramalama
@Steeplejack: Good questions.
The only portrayals of homosexuality I had while growing up were banishment of one uncle from family / holiday gatherings (bc GAY). An aunt joining a sect to avoid being gay. When she joined, her personality radically changed for the worse. 50% of my uncle’s friends all dead from AIDS and the government not doing a thing for years. Thanks to the likes of people like Anthony Fauci, Louise Hay, individual people, there was some humanity.
Other portrayals of homosexuality were all negative. Neighbors, school kids (gay boys were heat seeking missiles), any portrayal in songs (Strange Ways by the Kingston Trio, for example), tv, radio, sports, religion, newspapers, everything everywhere everywhere, how much could you be killed or maimed or denied employment or livelihood.
It was not a very good environment to be a lesbian. I had it easier than my uncle. A cousin has it easier than me and uncle. And so on.
Mama Cole is 80? Fantastique! Bonne Fete and more importantly Happy Birthday.
Caphilldcne
@opiejeanne: sorry I just meant I’m gettin’ older. I think that’s a sarcastic phrase that makes more sense out loud in conversation than written down.
Noskilz
A belated “Happy Birthday!” to your mom.
opiejeanne
@Caphilldcne: Thanks for clarifying, and that’s what I was hoping.
dearmaizie
Stepping out of my lurk to say yes, he is magnificent but could use a quick Furm, Happy Birthday to your mother whom I do not know (or you either for that matter), my these comments do wander, and are you feeding that cat on your chair??
Madeleine
Late to thread, but . . . I hope Mama Cole had a very happy 80th, and thst she’ll enjoy a great year!
And it’s always a pleasure to see the Pasha.
Another Scott
@dearmaizie: Steve only gets his wafer thin mint there.
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Villago Delenda Est
Happy birthday, Mama Cole! Also, too, you will bow before your master, John.
DonnaK
I bend the knee to King Steve!
SWMBO
Happy Birthday, Mama Cole!
dp
Happy Birthday, Mama Cole!
brantl
Happy Birthday Mrs. Cole. And many happy more, to come.
brantl
@Steeplejack: Paul Lynde was a gay couple, all by himself!