Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

I was promised a recession.

In short, I come down firmly on all sides of the issue.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Trump’s legal defense is going to be a dumpster fire inside a clown car on a derailing train.

Republicans want to make it harder to vote and easier for them to cheat.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

“woke” is the new caravan.

The GOP is a fucking disgrace.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

The willow is too close to the house.

If you are in line to indict donald trump, stay in line.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / The Patience of Joe(b)

The Patience of Joe(b)

by | 188 Comments

This post is in: ,

Even if your workday includes scrubbing toilets at the site of a recent chili cookoff or Febrezing Steve Bannon’s double-decker shirts, rejoice that you don’t have Joe Biden’s afternoon schedule (via TPM):

[Senator] Sinema is expected to meet with Biden separately at the White House today prior to the President’s meetings with the moderate and progressive wings of the Democratic caucus.

Here’s the list of who’s also heading to the White House:

Progressives (2 p.m.):
Reps. Katherine Clark (D-MA), Pramila Jayapal (D-WA), Mark Pocan (D-WI), Ritchie Torres (D-NY), Debbie Dingell (D-MI), Ro Khanna (D-CA), Barbara Lee (D-CA), Jared Huffman (D-CA) and Jimmy Gomez (D-CA).

Moderates (4:30 p.m.):
Reps. Josh Gottheimer (D-NJ), Suzan DelBene (D-WA), Ami Bera (D-CA), Tom O’Halleran (D-AZ) and Mike Thompson (D-CA) as well as Sens. Jon Tester (D-MT), Catherine Cortez Masto (D-NV) and Mark Warner (D-VA).

Between viewing an interpretive dance intended to convey Senator Sinema’s position on the reconciliation package and patiently listening to Josh Gottheimer’s anguished cries about the duplicity of Nancy Pelosi, the president will probably beg his schedulers to convene a Middle East peace summit. I mean, c’mon man!

Meanwhile, earlier today, Pawpaw Black Lung spoke unfavorably about a carbon tax. That’s what policymakers had turned to after he asphyxiated the Clean Electricity Payment Plan.

According to TPM’s reporting, Senator Markey is now talking about executive action on climate, which is what Obama had to do to meet Paris Accord goals when Republicans controlled the senate. On climate, it appears they still do, so add another item to Biden’s very long to-do list.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

188Comments

  8. 8.

    Ella in New Mexico

     Sinema is expected to meet with Biden separately at the White House today

    Let’s get Millionair Joe Manchin to join her so Biden can introduce them to Major for a little, uh “chat”

  9. 9.

    JMG

    With the exception of Gottheimer, all of those in both groups are team players. Clark is my congressperson. She’s one of Pelosi’s leadership team, for instance. I suspect the three “moderate” Senators were chosen on the grounds they can talk to Sinema without losing their tempers. Biden will relay whatever vague nonsense she utters and then go over approaches to persuading/coercing her to at least engage in real negotiations. As bad as his positions are, Manchin is doing this. She isn’t.

  11. 11.

    Nelle

    OT – has the FBI raid on Derepaska’s house today been covered here? (sorry – I have been real life involved today). I had no idea he was in the States under diplomatic immunity.

  12. 12.

    Betty Cracker

    “Well, Oprah, let’s just say certain people fucked around, and certain people found out.”

    The Patience of Joe(b)

    [Concept stolen from someone on Twitter…]

  14. 14.

    germy

    Today, in Target's parking lot:

    GUY: Sign this petition for Voter ID?

    ME: Do I have to show ID to sign it?

    GUY: No.

    ME: So how do you know I'm a voter?

    GUY: We verify name, address, and sig via the voter registry.

    ME: You just explained why Voter ID is not necessary.

    — Brian Wetjen (@wetchman) October 18, 2021

  15. 15.

    SpaceUnit

    Sinema’s extended clown show will almost certainly conclude with her appearing on the Tucker Carlson program with a flowerpot on her head to announce that she’s switching parties.

  16. 16.

    JoyceH

    Has Trump’s statement on Colin Powell been discussed yet? I think that belongs on Trump’s tombstone, “Anyway, Rest In Peace”.

  18. 18.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    Really pleased to see my Congressperson, Jared Huffman, on the Progressives meeting list.  I was not sure how much gravitas he had in Congress, coming from a safe Dem district (Second District, basically the N CA coast).  Our former Congressperson, Mike Thompson, (Fifth District) is on the Moderates list.  N CA is represented!

  19. 19.

    Cameron

    Biden will have to go the executive route on climate stuff.  Probably other stuff, too.  I don’t believe either Manchin or Sinema will think twice about deep-sixing the whole BBB bill.

  20. 20.

    JoyceH

    @Cameron:

    Biden will have to go the executive route on climate stuff.

    If you’re shameless enough, you can get a lot done with executive action. Heck, Trump took money from military housing to spend on his stupid wall.

  22. 22.

    Cameron

    Anybody have updates on voting in Virginia?  I haven’t seen anything since this a.m., which didn’t tell me much.

  23. 23.

    dww44

    @Baud: @cain:

    Agree and just had to share that first sentence or two with spouse. I do feel for President Biden. I mean it’s not every senile President that can handle those sorts of punishing meetups. And certainly not the lazy and senile ones.

  24. 24.

    mrmoshpotato

    Between viewing an interpretive dance intended to convey Senator Sinema’s position on the reconciliation package and patiently listening to Josh Gottheimer’s anguished cries about the duplicity of Nancy Pelosi, the president will probably beg his schedulers to convene a Middle East peace summit. I mean, c’mon man!

    LMAO!  Convening a Middle East peace summit really tops this off!

  26. 26.

    mrmoshpotato

    @JoyceH:

    If you’re shameless enough, you can get a lot done with executive action. 

    Or if you have to because some legislators are being slapdicks about dealing with an existential crisis.

  27. 27.

    SpaceUnit

    @Baud:

    Actually, I think there’s a non-insignificant probability that she runs on an independent / No Labels ticket with Andrew Yang in 2024.

    But only after it finally dawns on her that to win a GOP primary you’ve got to show that you’re crazy for trump the way Leslie Jones is crazy for David Pumpkins.

  34. 34.

    Cameron

    @Baud: My God! A Federal official who’s actually  going to do his job and not steal anything that isn’t nailed down?  Who ever heard of such a thing?

  36. 36.

    Suzanne

    Ughhhhh. So I just found out that a cousin of SuzMom’s, who I had to mute on Book of Faces at the beginning of the pandemic because she was saying unbelievably stupid shit about natural remedies and disinfectants and COVID…. Yep, you know where I’m going with this: moved to ICU last week and ventilated yesterday.

  40. 40.

    Another Scott

    FY22 appropriations bills are moving in the Senate. RollCall:

    […]

    Senate Democrats released nine remaining appropriations bills Monday in an effort to jump-start bipartisan talks, though the funding levels don’t dedicate as much to defense as the GOP would like and would eliminate a ban on federal funding for abortion.

    Within a discretionary spending ceiling of roughly $1.5 trillion, Senate Democrats would set aside $778 billion for the Pentagon and other security-related agencies — a 5 percent boost over fiscal 2021 that would match bipartisan defense authorization bills in both chambers.

    Spending on domestic and foreign aid programs would increase by more than 13 percent, a figure that Republicans reject as too high given the much slimmer boosts for defense-related programs.

    Those numbers mark a shift from Democrats’ positions earlier this year. The Biden administration’s budget request proposed a 1.6 percent increase for defense and 16.5 percent more for nondefense programs. House Democrats in their initial fiscal 2022 spending bills largely adhered to those numbers though put in about $2 billion extra for defense.

    Senate Democrats view their proposed funding levels as an effort to “move the ball forward” in talks with Republicans, according to a committee aide who wasn’t authorized to speak publicly.

    Senate Republicans, including Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and Appropriations ranking member Richard C. Shelby, have called for equal increases between defense and nondefense funding.

    The measures released on Monday include “significant increases” in funding for child care grants; Head Start; the maximum Pell Grant for lower-income college students; programs to address violence against women; the Strategic National Stockpile of medical supplies, devices and medicines and for police-related programs that will be come with “reforms,” according to the committee aide. Foreign Operations funding would get the first significant increase in about a decade, the aide said.

    […]

    Policy riders

    Senate Democrats would remove longstanding provisions from several of the bills that prevent federal funding for abortion services with limited exceptions. That includes removal of the so-called Hyde amendment in the Labor-HHS-Education bill, which affects Medicaid and other health care programs, the “Mexico City policy” ban on funding for overseas aid groups in the State-Foreign Operations measure and more.

    Democrats would move the $1.9 billion unobligated balance for Trump administration-era border wall construction to other areas of the Homeland Security funding bill, including border security information technology and resources for Customs and Border Protection. They’d also allow the federal government to close the Guantánamo Bay detention facility in Cuba and transfer or release individuals detained there.

    […]

    Still lots to do, but they’re moving, and there’s lots of good in the budget (after years of the domestic side being squeezed).

    Note that this is for FY22 and is outside the “$3.5 Trillllllliiiiiooooon” reconciliation bill.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  46. 46.

    ArchTeryx

    @Another Scott: I think they need to have the stones to hold the NDAA hostage in exchange for Manchin and Sinema’s vote on Build Back Better. Maybe that will get them to stop wagging their tongues and just vote on the goddamned thing. Heck, it may even shake Murkowski loose. (The rest are far too far up TFG’s ass to ever break with him on anything, even if it meant defunding the military).

  47. 47.

    Ben Cisco

    @SpaceUnit:

    Sinema’s extended clown show will almost certainly conclude with her appearing on the Tucker Carlson program with a flowerpot on her head to announce that she’s switching parties.

    Bookmarking this for later for the express purpose of laughing like a hyena without scaring my coworkers.

  48. 48.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Suzanne: OT:

    WSU coach just fired for refusing the vaccine. Fuck ‘im. Dude should be a leader, instead he is a has-been with a final season record of 5-6 and all the love that the antivaxx dumbasses can heap on him.

    Well, that’s $3M per year that the state of Washington can use for something better. Of course, it’s ridiculous the WSU pays ANYONE that salary, but whatevs.

  49. 49.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @geg6:

    True!

    And I’m in and out. Follow-up went okay—no gangrene or anything unseemly. And no charge. Yee-haw. Appointment scheduled for early February to start with the implant.

  50. 50.

    Anonymous At Work

    @JMG: The issue is that negotiations done in private can be reneged later.  Manchin has taken advantage of this on the 8 trillion, no 4.5 trillion, no 3.5 trillion, no 2 trillion, no 1.5 trillion…

    SInema is likewise abusing the process but in ways that don’t make it out in the open because airing the demands would both end any pretense of cooperation and expose her agenda.  Whether that’s a shill for rich donors or a troll or someone without an agenda or demands, unknown at this point.

  53. 53.

    Elizabelle

    @SpaceUnit:

    And then we’ll have Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

    Won’t that be a bag o’laughs?

    I can’t stand Sinema’s and Manchin’s theatrics either, but come on.

  57. 57.

    Elizabelle

    @Betty Cracker:   I love this, Betty C!

    Could you redo it with a caption above Major’s head?  Because then it would stand on its own.  And likely show up on many fridges and (do people still go to them?) cubicle walls.

    Speak, Major.

  58. 58.

    kindness

    I say we put Sinema in a cage match with Manchin and they can settle their differences there.

  63. 63.

    SpaceUnit

    @Elizabelle:

    I see KS as a complete ditz, but she craves attention and loves imagining herself as the center of the political universe.

    Would it be a bag of laughs?  No.  Do I absolutely rule it out?  Also no.

     

    Edit:  Actually, I think the more likely scenario would be her switching her party affiliation to Independent. That way the entire national media and both sides of the aisle would be pandering to her 24 hours a day.

  64. 64.

    Mike in NC

    The only thing that can be done with Steve Bannon’s shirts is what soldiers relieved from a tour in the trenches of WW1 did with their lice-ridden uniforms: burn them!

  65. 65.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @eclare:

    Good to know. Thanks.

    Since I went to the trouble to don the tactical gear (pants!) and venture out of the bunker, I decided to drop in at the Lost Dog Café for a pizza and a pint. Now sipping a cold pilsner by the window in a nearly empty room. Beautiful fall day outside: sunny, 73°, light breeze.

  68. 68.

    Kent

    @SpaceUnit: Exactly.   Sinema would stand ZERO chance in a Republican primary.  A flakey pro-choice bisexual dipshit?  Right….exactly what GOP voters are looking for.  Well, except for the dipshit part, that doesn’t seem to bother them.

  69. 69.

    Kent

    @ArchTeryx: Holding the NDAA hostage will be difficult because it will get a lot of GOP votes.  Especially in the House.  So just a few progressives probably can’t stop it.  It would take the bulk of the Dem contingent to make it happen.

  75. 75.

    gene108

    What I hate about Manchin and Sinema is the anger they are generating amongst Democratic voters across the country against them. I think the anger is reaching the point a backlash will build against Democrats, in general, and many voters who turned out in 2018 and 2020 will sit home and not vote in 2022.

    I don’t entirely blame them. What’s the point of electing Democrats, if nothing gets done?

    Manchin I can sort of get trying to hold office in an R+30 state. I have no clue what motivates Sinema.

  76. 76.

    Ksmiami

    @Omnes Omnibus: because the doldrums are the worst place to be using the sailing metaphor. Better to sail through calm or rough than going nowhere watching your supplies dwindling… Thats where we are Rt now with Biden’s agenda and Democratic prospects.

  78. 78.

    Baud

    @gene108:

     don’t entirely blame them. What’s the point of electing Democrats, if nothing gets done

     
    Why do we assume that Juicers are the only people who are high minded enough to care about fighting fascism?

  79. 79.

    gene108

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    There are people letting their frustration get to them who are starting to wish for that.

    I don’t get it.

    I think a lot of Democratic voters are reaching the point that things must change, or fuck it, let’s burn the entire motherfucker down and start over.

    Patience has run out.

    Part of it is from the reporting on unchecked Republican overreach, like the Texas abortion bounty bill, Trump facing no consequences for anything, etc., which makes Republicans seem like powerful, near invincible super villains, without as much attention to all the ways Republicans have lost on issues like gay marriage, repealing Obamacare, etc.

    Republicans voters are already there wanting to burn it all down.

  80. 80.

    hueyplong

    @gene108: At this point, Cinema is probably radioactive, unlikely to get either party’s nomination for the next cycle in Arizona.  The task for the Dems is to limit the harm she does to the legislative agenda in the meantime, while finding pickup states to account for the AZ loss to come.  AZ itself could be on the list if the state GOP goes so crazy that a Dem candidate (other than Cinema) can retain the seat.

    However much money the shadow GOP-friendly donors are promising her, it won’t be enough to win a GOP primary if/when she changes parties.  They demand an actual feral candidate, and there will be one or more of them to choose from.

  82. 82.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    Something that hasn’t gotten much attention in DC during climate negotiations: The WV PSC just approved over $400 million of mandatory federal upgrades needed to keep 3 coal plants operating until 2040. WV ratepayers will foot the entire bill.
    https://t.co/ePytaQIcA7

    — Ella Nilsen (@ella_nilsen) October 19, 2021

  83. 83.

    germy

    The lawyer who defended George Zimmerman was arrested in Florida, accused of witness tampering in a juvenile rape case https://t.co/OLj1uaV0Vt
    — philip lewis (@Phil_Lewis_) October 19, 2021

    Mouth covered, nose out.

    Reminds me of shoppers in my local supermarket (the ones who bother with masks at all)

  84. 84.

    SpaceUnit

    I think it is better to point out the bad faith obstructionism of two Dem politicians rather than allow the MSM to push the narrative that Democrats simply can’t govern.  Call me crazy.

  88. 88.

    germy

    Rise and shine, beloved friends!

    Who else is feeling blessed this morning not to be former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke?

    — India Walton For Buffalo (@Indiawaltonbflo) October 19, 2021

  89. 89.

    Betty Cracker

    @SpaceUnit: That’s my theory too. I don’t have any proof that it will work, but I have seen “the Democrats” as a group get blamed when nothing / not enough gets done for decades, the brand muddied every time, so maybe try calling out the actual malefactors.

  91. 91.

    Baud

    @germy:

    Technical question. Is the child tax credit refundable if you have zero income? If not, don’t you have to have a job to take advantage of it?

  96. 96.

    germy

    @Baud:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/10/18/manchins-work-requirement-child-benefits-would-throw-grandparent-led-families-under-bus/

    Grandparents are often neither physically nor financially prepared to raise another child. Some are still working, but most grandparents responsible for their grandchildren are no longer in the labor force. They’re often retired, disabled or both.

    Even with their disability benefits, money has been tight for a while. But when her then-14-year-old granddaughter, Nevaeh, asked to live with them last year, Melissa didn’t hesitate.

  97. 97.

    Old School

    @Baud:

    Technical question. Is the child tax credit refundable if you have zero income?

    Yes – the credit in place currently is refundable.

  99. 99.

    Old School

    @Old School: I should add that the credit currently in place is thanks to the American Rescue Plan and only covers 2021.  So if the credit isn’t extended, the credit will no longer be refundable in 2022.

  104. 104.

    Burnspbesq

    @Baud:

    I’m not. The reaction of Bolsonaro’s supporters is going to make January 6 look like a neighborhood Fourth of July picnic by comparison. The army is going to have to intervene, and probably before the week is out.

  106. 106.

    Geminid

    @hueyplong: Mark Kelly proved that a Democrat other than Sinema can win a Senate seat in Arizona. I think he will prove it again next year. Kelly has a special resume, and ran 40,000 votes (I believe) ahead of Joe Biden last November, but Biden also won Arizona.

  109. 109.

    schrodingers_cat

    OT: Has anybody bought art supplies from ebay? I ordered a box of PrismaColors which was about 60% of the Amazon price. It is going to arrive this Friday. Fingers crossed.

  110. 110.

    Auntie Anne

    @Steeplejack (phone): One of the few nice things about the egregious amount of money I spent on implants was that all of the follow-up care was at no charge.  That includes the appointments I had when I developed an infection after the bone graft.  (The infection was no big deal – easily handled with an antibiotic.)

  111. 111.

    NotMax

    FYI.

    Sinclair TV stations experienced a massive outage during ransomware attack

    The attack shut down local TV stations across the US Source

  112. 112.

    Geminid

    @hueyplong: There are good Democrats who can win the seat that’s up in 2024. Representative Greg Stanton is one. The former Mayor of Phoenix, Stanton won Sinema’s seat when she ran and won the Senate seat Flake retired from, in 2018. I don’t think a primary fight with Sinema would be very damaging. She doesn’t seem to have built up a loyal following among Democrats or Independents in Arizona.

  116. 116.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Auntie Anne:

    Thanks for the information. This oral surgeon will look at the site again in February, see if the Bondo built up the bone enough. If so, it’s a go on the implant; if not, remedial efforts needed.

  119. 119.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    And I’m home and unaccountably tired after my outing. I think there is a certain amount of “social fitness” that I have lost during the pandemic. Just being out, doing stuff, interacting with people—it all seems more effortful than it was before. Of course, in a way it is, but still . . . it feels weird.

  127. 127.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Speaking of ordering things, I ordered the first two Excruciverbiage books today (by BJ’s own Daniel S. Price). They should arrive within the week, and I’m drooling at the prospect of tackling some nice tough cryptics.

  128. 128.

    Geminid

    @rikyrah: I think Sinema would have real trouble in a primary. Democrats in Arizona are not some special breed distinct from those in other states. I think Independents can vote in party primaries in that state, but like I said, she doesn’t seem to be gaining much loyalty anywhere.

  130. 130.

    Kay

    @Another Scott:

    “Your President” is different than “President”.  She was so eager to both sides it she didn’t read it and she won’t admit the error.

    Trump also says “your First Lady” about his wife. That sounds even odder and just clearly wrong when you hear it.

  133. 133.

    Kay

    I got one wrong on the Ohio pollworker test so you-all can just call me pollworker from now on.

    A provisional ballot question. I said voter should get a regular ballot. Voter should. I stand by my answer.

  134. 134.

    Suzanne

    @Geminid:

    There are good Democrats who can win the seat that’s up in 2024. Representative Greg Stanton is one. The former Mayor of Phoenix, Stanton won Sinema’s seat when she ran and won the Senate seat Flake retired from, in 2018. I don’t think a primary fight with Sinema would be very damaging. 

    Stanton has a reputation (not entirely earned, in my opinion) for being pretty progressive. He was a pretty big supporter of solar energy as Mayor, which makes sense in the hottest and brightest city in America. I like that, of course. The power companies hate it, though, and they basically bought the AZ Corporation Commission and some of the other politicians in the state. Do not be under any illusion that Stanton would be a consensus candidate. I think he is probably the only prominent AZ Dem who has a chance of winning statewide, but I don’t think he has a great chance, especially if Ducey runs for the seat.

  136. 136.

    Another Scott

    @Steeplejack (phone):  The beer? Maybe it’s just enough of a relaxant to get you to give up the stress of being out of your abode. I find that an evening glass of wine will pretty much knock me out these days…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  138. 138.

    Miss Bianca

    @Burnspbesq: 

    Sounds bad, but still…wow. Ballsy move from Brazilian Congress.
    I’m trying to wrap my head around the thought of *our* Congress taking the same action against Trump.

  142. 142.

    Patricia Kayden

    A Brazilian Senate report has concluded that President Jair Bolsonaro of Brazil should face homicide charges over his mishandling of the pandemic, asserting that his policies intentionally let the virus kill hundreds of thousands of people in Brazil. https://t.co/9MYOEIcCXa— Caroline Orr Bueno, Ph.D (@RVAwonk) October 19, 2021

  143. 143.

    Geminid

    @Suzanne: Do you think Katie Hobbs can win a race for Governor next year?

    I know Republicans have the advantage there. When voting rolls closed last October, they had 35% of registered voters, while Democrats were 32%, and Independents 31.7%. But now Arizona Republicans are starting to resemble the Hatfields and McCoys.

  144. 144.

    Suzanne

    @Geminid:

    Do you think Katie Hobbs can win a race for Governor next year? 

    I would put Hobbs’ odds at 50/50 at best.

    I had a long comment typed out and then the page fucken refreshed.

  145. 145.

    SpaceUnit

    @Geminid:

    I’d like to know how that 31.7% of independents breaks down.  Seems to me that in the current political climate it wouldn’t be all that hard to claw a few points of advantage out of that group.  And a few points is all it would take.

    Theoretically, at least.

  147. 147.

    Another Scott

    TheHill:

    Sen. Joe Manchin (W.Va.), a key figure in the Democratic negotiations over a major human infrastructure spending package, told Democratic colleagues at lunch Tuesday that he will work with Senate Budget Committee Chairman Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) to reach a deal by week’s end, according to sources familiar with the lunch.

    Manchin said he thought a general agreement would be possible by Friday, sounding a more optimistic tone behind closed doors than he did when asked by reporters earlier in the week about meeting an Oct. 31 deadline for passing legislation.

    “Universally there was a desire to get this done by the end of this week,” said a Democratic senator who participated in the meeting.

    […]

    Another person familiar with the meeting said the talks will take place between Manchin, Sanders and centrist Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.), with Schumer acting as an emissary between Sanders and his centrist colleagues.

    The source described the negotiation as a “shuttle diplomacy” with Schumer coordinating the talks.

    “There’s broad consensus throughout the caucus about getting something by the end of the week,” the source said, characterizing the discussion at the lunch about reaching a deal by Friday.

    The source added that Senate Democrats “from left to right” voiced support for agreeing on a framework in the next few days.

    […]

    Asked on Tuesday about recent skirmishing between Sanders and Manchin, Schumer said: “What I’ve told our caucus is everyone is going to be disappointed in certain things but everyone’s going to be glad about certain things.”

    The sausage will be stuffed in the casings soon.

    Forward!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  148. 148.

    Suzanne

    Here is a brief recap of my long comment:

    Y’all out-of-staters are not doing a good job absorbing the facts on the ground in AZ and it is leading you to make some judgments that I predict will steer you wrong. AZ is purple at best. They have a pattern of electing a Dem to something (Clinton in 96, Napolitano a few years later, Sinema and Kelly) and then the next election reverting right back to red, shitty form. Good candidates, and progressive candidates, run for office and then lose. So there is not a deep bench of candidates to choose from. Pickings are slim. Sinema has had primary opponents who are more progressive than she is. They lose.

    It is a very young state on average, all the stereotypes about retirees notwithstanding, and youth turnout is unreliable. The list of losers in recent years is much longer than the list of winners.

    So. Accept that if Sinema loses a primary, the odds are pretty good (probably 2:1) that a Republican will win the seat. Everyone active in the Democratic Party there knows she sucks. They have known it for years. They support her anyway because she has a proven track record of cobbling together a winning coalition in a place where that is really difficult to come by.

  149. 149.

    Suzanne

    I will note that I am in PA now, and following the Senate race here, and local politics, and it is soooo different. There are already three good Dems running for the seat (Lamb, Kenyatta, Fetterman). I am like ZOMG CHOICES WHAT ARE THESE, NEVER HAD THESE BEFORE. I drive around, and people have yard signs up for City Council races and little judgeships and shit. Like, what?! Growing candidates?! You mean, actually developing people’s skills and public profiles?! WHAT A NOVEL IDEA!!!

    None of that is there in AZ. As recently as, like, 12 years ago, the Dems ran Rodney Fucken Glassman for a Senate seat because he was the only person they could find. Glassman is now a Republican, BTW. Sinema has advantages of incumbency and chucking her out — even though she deserves it — means that seat is pretty fucken likely to revert to GOP. Make sure you’re okay with that.

  151. 151.

    debbie

    @Suzanne:

    They support her anyway because she has a proven track record of cobbling together a winning coalition in a place where that is really difficult to come by.

    Even after this term?

  152. 152.

    Suzanne

    Also, of the AZ Congressional delegation, the Reps are Gosar, Biggs, Lesko, and Schweikert. Four of the biggest, Trumpiest dickbags in the entire country. Governor? Ducey. Huge fucking dick. All of them have been re-elected to their offices. I bet one of them runs for that Senate seat.

    I will take Sinema over one of these fuckers any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

  153. 153.

    Jeffro

    Between Bannon, Manchin, Sinema, Greenberg, and Deripaska…there’s a whooooooole 2022/2024 theme of “fighting corruption in all its forms” just waiting to be picked up there, Dems.

  154. 154.

    Suzanne

    @debbie: Look, the people who are most pissed at Sinema are loyal Democrats. That’s the part of her coalition that doesn’t really have anywhere else to go. There are not a whole lot of options.

    Remember: the voters there know her and elected her knowing that she is like this.

    Chucking her out is a gamble. I would be more inclined to take that risk if she was Senator #53.

  156. 156.

    Suzanne

    The state that up until really, really recently had John McCain, Jon Kyl, and Jeff Flake as their cohort for literally decades is not fertile ground for an awesome progressive Democrat, IMO.

    Mark Kelly is the best I think you can expect. He’s a unicorn, y’all.

  158. 158.

    Suzanne

    @NotMax: Dude. No one hates her more than I do.

    I just have clarity around the situation. How many hours/days/weeks did I canvass in ridiculously hot insanity to watch good candidates lose?! A shitload.

  162. 162.

    zhena gogolia

    For some reason our power has gone out in the middle of a sunny day. There are 20 of us, I guess, so no big rush to restore it.

  163. 163.

    Geminid

    @SpaceUnit: Well, that is not just a theoretical proposition. Last year’s was a high turnout election, and I think Kelly and Biden had to have carried a majority of Independent voters to win.

    I got the breakdown of party registration from an Arizona Public Radio article published before the election. The writer noted that this was the first time in the recent decades that Democrats had pulled ahead of Independents in percentage of registrations.

  169. 169.

    Jeffro

    I’m loving SCOTUS upholding the Maine vaccination mandates…what say you, tucker and laura?

    LOLOL

  173. 173.

    Soprano2

    @gene108: Yes, this. The reporting makes it sound like Republicans are winning everything and Democrats are feckless losers who can’t get anything done. It’s not true, but it’s discouraging to keep hearing reporting like this.

  174. 174.

    Burnspbesq

    @Miss Bianca: 

    I hear ya, but I’d gladly settle for a resolution under Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment, concluding that he gave aid or comfort to an insurrection.

  175. 175.

    Another Scott

    @patrick Il: It’s our old friend the filibuster rules. GovExec:

    Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., who chairs the Senate Appropriations Committee, introduced the nine remaining funding bills on Monday, adding to the three his panel previously considered. Taken together, the 12 spending measures—which Congress must pass annually to keep federal offices open—would give non-defense agencies a 13% boost, nearly matching the 16% called for in President Biden’s budget request. Defense spending would increase by 5%.

    Leahy quickly conceded the bills were not likely to be signed into law as is, given that appropriations measures will require at least 10 Republican votes. The chairman said that unveiling the bills would “show the American people what we are for.”

    “I believe we have struck the right balance with the bills we have produced and made public this week,” Leahy said. “But as with everything in Congress, we rarely end where we begin.”

    […]

    Agencies are currently operating under a stopgap continuing resolution, which will fund agencies through Dec. 3. Shelby said success before that date “rests on trust and bipartisan cooperation.”

    “Regrettably, we’re a long way from that now,” Shelby said. “If Democrats want full-year appropriations bills, they must abandon their go-it-alone strategy and come to the table to negotiate.”

    The House has passed nine of 12 spending bills for fiscal 2022, but it did so along party lines. Those measures would have to be negotiated with Senate Republicans before they can go to the White House for Biden’s signature. The U.S. Treasury is also set to hit the debt ceiling in early December, though the exact date of a potential default is still unclear.

    There are presently 6 types of exceptions to the filibuster/cloture (60 vote) system in the Senate and annual budgets aren’t one of them.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  176. 176.

    Gravenstone

    @Baud: Some state level party official declined to endorse her for the mayoral race. Then the jackass made the world’s most tone deaf analogy about not having to endorse any old Democrat by hypothetically saying “what if” it was David Duke seeking the endorsement as a Democrat?

  177. 177.

    Burnspbesq

    @Jeffro:

    Breyer’s action is not exactly a surprise. Sotomayor and Barrett ruled similarly in cases from New. York and Indiana.

  178. 178.

    Geminid

    @Suzanne: Not every Democrat wants “an awesome progressive.” Not even every Democrat here. I’d be happy to have Mark Kelly as my Senator, and not just because he is the best we can do. But then, I’m already happy with Tim Kaine and Mark Warner, rated “D”and “F” by the Progressive Punch rating service.

    In order to minimize the chances of any Democrat besides Sinema to win in 2024, you assert that Mark Kelly is a unicorn. Kelly is a strong candidate for sure. But Kelly ran ahead of Joe Biden by only 44,000 votes out of over 3.3 million cast, and Biden is no unicorn.

  180. 180.

    SpaceUnit

    Embracing Sinema ( and refusing to criticize her, to primary her, or to in any way hold her accountable ) on the grounds that she’s the best we can hope for in AZ comes with considerable risk.

    If she succeeds in making the Democrats look so inept and weak, so disorganized and ineffective, that it depresses party electoral turnout nationwide then we’ll have made a deal with the devil.

    Just something to think about.

  183. 183.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @SpaceUnit: Embracing Sinema ( and refusing to criticize her, to primary her, or to in any way hold her accountable ) on the grounds that she’s the best we can hope for in AZ comes with considerable risk.

    I don’t think that anyone is doing this.  OTOH, recognizing that she might be the best we can get in that seat at this moment and working to get a situation where her vote is not essential is a good idea. Until then….

  185. 185.

    Steeplejack

    @Bokonon:

    I go to the one on Washington Boulevard in the Westover section of Arlington. I live pretty close to there at Seven Corners in Falls Church.​

  187. 187.

    dave319

    Like you know…what, exactly? That Joe Biden is senile? The radio in your fillings told you so, didn’t it?

  188. 188.

    Jinchi

    Pawpaw Black Lung spoke unfavorably about a carbon tax.

    Manchin will argue against anything that will actually solve the climate crisis, because dealing with the climate means ending coal power.

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