Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Bark louder, little dog.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

“But what about the lurkers?”

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

This really is a full service blog.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

Eh, that’s media spin. biden’s health is fine and he’s doing a good job.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Working Towards the Future

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Working Towards the Future

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Manchin’s only interested in Joe Manchin, but is there any lever the rest of us can use to convince him that being the guy who took food out of childrens’ mouths for the benefit of Mitch McConnell isn’t really in his best interest?

Reader Interactions

156Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    I get the importance of posturing but this

    Infrastructure bill won’t transform America or help Dems. Big reconciliation will.

    is quite a stretch on both ends.

  2. 2.

    Betty Cracker

    AP framing continues to suck: “[Biden] needs to bring his party’s centrists and its progressives to a middle ground” distorts rather than clarifies the situation. Maybe a dozen out of around 270 Democrats in both chambers of Congress aren’t on board with Biden’s agenda. They aren’t centrists. Joe Biden is a centrist. Amy Klobuchar is a centrist. Abigail Spanberger is a centrist.

    The hold-outs are fringe outliers.

    Also, when you’ve lost Dana Houle…

  3. 3.

    John S.

    Now would be a good time for someone to produce some serious oppo research on Manchin and Sinema.

    It’s enough with those two assholes.

  5. 5.

    Immanentize

    I think giving Manchin a win (and fewer current subsidies) on transition from coal is a good if he moves on the rest of the climate stuff. As he himself has noted, coal is dying on its own. It’s impact lessens every day. And if coal transition is his biggest sticking point….

    Meanwhile, work requirements are horrible, ineffective, and just lead to further surveillance and criminalization of the lives of poor people. I recommend work requirements for investment income tax breaks.

  7. 7.

    germy

    I saw this reader comment over at LGM (from someone nymed c.p.)

     

    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/10/in-shocking-revelation-joe-lieberman-reveals-that-republicans-wanted-him-to-win

    It occurred to me today that Sinema actually is the person that Republicans, centrists, and other Serious People have been telling us for three years that AOC was: a shallow, frivolous, and self-absorbed social media princess whose politics begin and end with whatever will get the most people tweeting about her.

  8. 8.

    Immanentize

    @John S.: Those two assholes are the only reason we are even able to talk about our slimmest ability to pass anything in reconciliation.

  12. 12.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Somebody here said this about the bullshit that is means testing:

    Means testing has the effect of excluding many of the people who need help the most — people with limited education, limited time and stressful lives. Also, means testing leads to a narrative that the program is benefiting only Those People, and should therefore be eliminated.

    Means testing has always been about excluding “Those People” from any given program that proponents of the concept still want to extent to “our people”, meaning white people.

  13. 13.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    In a fashionable favela in Brazil, a Nazi-curious mediocre former lawyer-turned-pundit is destroying a keyboard while pounding a 20,000 word screed about how terrible the Above the Law site is.

    Greenwald extended his argument against the ACLU defending the civil liberties of trans kids claiming that the ACLU is doing so at the expense of the “real” civil liberties crises of our time, like efforts to force tech companies to censor speech or putting MAGA insurrectionists on the no fly list — issues which Greenwald claims the ACLU “says nothing.” Putting aside the broken logic that keeping children free from discrimination in government-run schools is a secondary crisis, the ACLU is deeply embroiled in defending Section 230 and have been fighting the no fly list for years. Filing an amicus brief on school discrimination only trades off with these issues in Glenn’s head.

  14. 14.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    A query – have any pundits made anyone’s lives better at all?

  15. 15.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Re the child tax credit, means testing is bad enough because of how it complicates a program and adds costs to it. But a work requirement is infuriatingly bad. If someone is home taking care of a two year old, they’re working already.

  17. 17.

    germy

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage:

    Don’t computer hackers love means testing, though?

    Someone making 58k a year.  They’re compelled to upload all sorts of private financial info to a leaky, cobbled-together government online form.  And then next thing they know, someone is using their social security number.

  19. 19.

    Kay

    In terms of Biden’s agenda, I think the tax increases are underplayed as far as keeping a Biden promise and good politics for Dems. Biden talks about them constantly and did throughout the campaign and he uses “fair” as the justification.

    Democrats have made amazing progress chipping away at the Reagan-era rule that pols can never raise taxes- the Trump tax cuts were unpopular – effectively depicted as only benefitting the wealthy – and Biden ran on raising taxes. The infrastructure bill goes in the wrong direction on that- they stripped tax increases out of it to get the GOP votes (which GOP’ers point to, specifically- Portman for one).

    We have to get away from the idea that we can have modern infrastructure, good public education, all the things business relies on to make money,  and no one has to pay for it because someone DOES have to pay for it- budgets are lists of priorities and not paying for the infrastructure bill means something else slips down the list of priorities.

    To get away from Reagan era policies you have to get away from them. You can’t just layer some progressive policies on top of the Right wing economic fundamentals. That’s a shaky foundation and it threatens what you put on top of it.

  20. 20.

    germy

    @debbie:

    Manchin’s son and daughter have a hollowed-eyed look I’ve seen before.  I remember it from my boss’s offspring.

    The son exudes an overfed dumbness.  The daughter looks like the well-connected mediocrity she is.

  21. 21.

    Baud

    While I hope there’s a deal soon, I’m not looking forward to the extended discussion on the media and social media over which politicians won and lost, rather than how the bill benefits regular people.

    @Kay: Agreed.

  22. 22.

    Tony Gerace

    Joe Manchin is 74 years old.  His career plan at this point is probably to retire in luxury in the near future after accumulating as many (legal) bribes from corporate lobbyists as possible.  He’s doing what the lobbyists tell him to do.   Sinema is only 45, so she must have other career plans.  But she is obviously just as corrupt as Manchin.

  23. 23.

    Betty Cracker

    @Immanentize: I sure hope that happens, but it won’t be bringing “centrists” into the fold if it does. The real “centrists” and “moderates” are already on board. Looks like the best case scenario is bringing S&M and the sad House gaggle to the exact middle point between McConnell & McCarthy’s “nothing” and Congressional Democrats’ $3.5 T.

  24. 24.

    Jeffro

    @Kay: Amen.  I’m surprised that Dems haven’t campaigned on a simple graph (of the past 40 years) showing current revenues vs what revenues would be without W’s and trumpov’s tax giveaways to the rich.

    “See that ever-growing gap, American working families?  See ALL THAT MONEY?  That money could be making your roads better, providing you with better health care, paying your kids’ teachers more…but instead of doing some good, it’s sitting in a rich guy’s vault doing nothing but MAKING HIM EVEN RICHER.”

  25. 25.

    Ksmiami

    As I’ve said before; tell Manchin, the DOJ is opening an investigation into the Epipen issue, . tell Sinema there will be no Democratic infrastructure support for her and then dare them to sink reconciliation and the BIF. If they want to join the GOP be honest.

  26. 26.

    Ten Bears

    Arizona and West Virginia rank right in there with Mississippi as failed welfare states, that take more out of the system than they put in. Whores that take more than they pay. Close the spigot, dry up the government teat. Turn off the water. They’re just wasting it.

  27. 27.

    Baud

    @germy:

    Someone making 58k a year.  They’re compelled to upload all sorts of private financial info to a leaky, cobbled-together government online form.  And then next thing they know, someone is using their social security number.

     

    You just made the GOP case for repealing the income tax.

  28. 28.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:  I envision a single mother of 2, at least one a toddler, with a dead beat ex. She gets denied the CTC because she can’t work because she can’t afford the child care which was also removed from the bill by “centrists”…

  29. 29.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    I don’t want to go backward on the progress with the “amazing free stuff!” approach of the infrastructure bill. The fact is pundits are wrong. Lauding a bill that spends 500 billion but doesn’t raise revenue as fiscally responsible is incorrect. The reconciliation proposals spend more, but they raise revenue.

    They have to choose. They can’t oversimplify and depict this as an ordinary budget and then ignore revenue and point to magical Right wing economics for that side of the ledger re: the infrastructure bill and then carp excessively about the spending in reconciliation w/out mentioning revenue.

    I would take layering dumb Right wing ideas (work rules) on top of actual progressive economic policy over layering progressive programs on top of Right wing voodoo economics (infrastructure). The foundation matters.

  30. 30.

    Geminid

    The Ohio Senate race came up here last evening, and today I was interested to see a story about 3rd quarter fundraising from the Youngstown, Ohio Vindicator. The article was titled, “Ryan rolls while GOP candidates take loans.” Democrat Tim Ryan raised slightly over $2.5 million in the 3rd quarter, while four Republican Senate contenders lent their own campaigns a combined $6.35 million.

  31. 31.

    Reboot

    @Betty Cracker:  ‘Bring centrists to a middle ground’ reminds me of this phrase I read long ago in an article about a crime ring: “band of intransigent loners.”

  32. 32.

    Kay

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Why don’t the substackers take a portion of their (claimed) incredible revenue and start a legal nonprofit? They can go after 6th grade teachers who are too “woke” (rather than just getting them fired) and the ACLU can choose their own cases?  Hire a lawyer, Glenn. The ACLU lawyers aren’t your personal attorney. Start your own legal nonprofit.

  33. 33.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @germy:

    Speaking of social security numbers and creaky government, somebody in Missouri embedded the SSNs of 100,000 teachers into the source code of the open website. A journalist discovered it via right click, held the story long enough for the glitch to be fixed.  True to form, the RWNJ MO governor wants the journalist who had the audacity to make him look bad prosecuted for “hacking”.

    https://www.npr.org/2021/10/14/1046124278/missouri-newspaper-security-flaws-hacking-investigation-gov-mike-parson

  34. 34.

    Kay

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    They all love the magical “gig” economy so they can just take individual cases. The they don’t have to actually work with anyone else or pay salaries or benefits. Just the anti-woke substackers alone should be able to fund a high profile case where they sue a school board for too many books about Martin Luther King. You just know some douchebag fancy lawyer would love that case- they could probably get one for free.

  37. 37.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    It’s been nice locally among Democrats- the “quiet build” of interest that in my experience is what successful liberal campaigns in Ohio look like. I think Ryan probably considers the loudmouth Vance and Mandel an asset. It’s an interesting dynamic. They came out early and defined themselves as far Right and he’s remaining undefined. Timing really matters. I have my fingers crossed that they’re re-running 2020 when he’s running 2022. Theirs is the safe strategy. It’s designed to hold, not add.

  38. 38.

    rikyrah

     

    Quinerly,

     

    I hope that you saw the information about mixing and matching vaccines.

    How J and J did so much better with antibodies when getting a MODERNA BOOSTER..

    DON’T get a J and J booster.

     

    GET MODERNA!!

  39. 39.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Kay:

    I’ve long felt that the ACLU fucked up by taking up the speech causes of Nazis. There’s no shortage of RWNJ asshole lawyers who will take up that shit for free – let them do it. Save the resources for people who aren’t assholes.

  40. 40.

    Soprano2

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:  You’ve discovered that our governor is an idiot who thinks the paper did this to make him look bad! It’s so dumb. I hope the Cole County prosecutor sits on it for awhile and then says “Eh, we can’t prosecute the newspaper. Now, the people who embedded the SSN’s on the other hand…..” Seriously that needs to be looked into – how did that happen, and did someone do it for a nefarious purpose or did they just royally fuck up?

  41. 41.

    Betty Cracker

    Here’s some good news:

    So, Manchin and Sinema aren’t 100% useless if they’re voting for Biden’s judicial picks.

  42. 42.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Soprano2:

    Feels almost intentional, doesn’t it?

    “But we got a great contract on that site build that got outsourced with a third party provider out of Manila, and the contractor pocketed the difference. We saved the state A TON of money.

    I guess this proves you just can’t trust government…”

  43. 43.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Soprano2: You’ve discovered that our governor is an idiot who thinks the paper did this to make him look bad!

    I’ve pointed out in the past that he needs no help in that department.

  46. 46.

    Soprano2

    @OzarkHillbilly: He really is an authentic good ole boy from Bolivar, and just as clueless about how the internet works. I have to wonder if even one person on his staff suggested how stupid this is before he did it. Surely the Cole County people are laughing at him behind his back.

  48. 48.

    Quinerly

    @rikyrah: saw it in NYT last night. Thanks for thinking of me.

    Off shortly for a hike at Bandelier National Monument. All my years visiting out here never made it over there. Always being here in the winter was mostly the reason.

    Have a great day BJers!!

  49. 49.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Soprano2: ​
     

    Having lived next door in Osage County for 22 years and worked in Cole County the entire time, I can safely say the majority of people there, mostly RWNJs, will consider that manifestation of ignorance a feature, not a bug.

  50. 50.

    Soprano2

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: I agree, but the attorney in them has to know that there is no way to prosecute this as a case of “hacking”. Something anyone with a computer mouse can do by right clicking cannot be considered “hacking” under any definition of the word. I was shocked that Parson’s anger wasn’t directed at the idiots who designed that Web site, then I remembered that for Republicans being against the press always plays well.

  51. 51.

    Kay

    My priorities for reconciliation are :

    1. get more revenue (most important) – they can bicker over dumb Right wing ideas as long as they get the money
    2. negotiations on drug prices
    3. climate change rules that phase out dirty and let markets add clean (which markets are doing anyway- they just need to speed up)
    4. child care

    I never would have done Bernies expansion of Medicare benefits- it’s hugely expensive and it phases in so slowly it isn’t going to help politically and it invests on the wrong end. I’d trade that away in a heartbeat.

    So Sinema opposes tax increases and Manchin opposes climate change mitigation, hence my opposition to them. If they were opposing 2 years of community college it’s a disagreement. Opposing tax increases is a dealbreaker. It’s constantly depicted as “liberals want everything” but that’s not true. I’d jettison a lot. They want a good, solid foundation. To build back better you need one. The rest is negotiable.

  52. 52.

    NotMax

    FYI.

    At the Saudi Book Fair, ‘daring’ titles defy taboos.
    [snip]
    Abdulaziz al-Turki, a Saudi visitor, described some of the books on display at this year’s show as “shocking” since they “do not fit into the country’s cultural history.”

    There was also some online response, with one Saudi tweeting that the fair had “shameful content,” which he backed up with books like “My pals are dogs” and “I cut my beard.” Source

  53. 53.

    Citizen Alan

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:  Personally, I still haven’t forgiven the the ACLU for their amicus brief in support of citizens United.  Anything we do in terms of campaign finance reform, the ACLU will oppose because they bought into scalia’s idiotic “money equals speech” doctrine.

  54. 54.

    Kay

    I do wonder though why progressives expanded Medicare benefits rather than lowering the age. At 55 would be wildly popular and it’s easier to administer. They could then bargain down to 60 which would still be wildly popular. I feel like it’s a Bernie-specific thing so it annoys me. I think he’s making up for the deal he cut on the VA, where he privatized in return for more funding.

  56. 56.

    Kay

    @Citizen Alan:

    That was a real dividing line. It was so incredibly cool at the time to make the liberal argument for speech re: Citizens that the dopes apparently didn’t realize they were gutting campaign finnance regulation. OOOPs! Here comes the massive corruption!  Hook, line.

  58. 58.

    Kay

    @Citizen Alan:

    Fancy liberals hate labor unions so of course they found the Right wing argument that the big, scary labor unions would be countered by the poor, silenced billionaires compelling. They were just evening the playing field! Take off the chains on America’s wealthiest people!

  60. 60.

    Geminid

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: The ACLU contributed to the disaster that was the Charlottesville “Unite the Right” rally when they represented the organizer in his effort to return the rally to downtown Charlottesville (the City had moved it to a large, relatively isolated park a mile away). A federal judge went along, and three days before the event it was again allowed a venue in a cramped urban area that could not even hold the two thousand demonstrators and counterdemonstrators.

    Bad as the outcome was, I thought Charlottesville was lucky that day. The ralliers carried a couple hundred firearms, and a dozen or so members of a left wing militia showed up with rifles to “protect” anti-fascist demonstrators. One shot was fired, but thankfully this did not set off a bloodbath. The Maryland Klansman who fired his handgun is serving a 7-8 year prison sentence

  61. 61.

    Betty

    @Tony Gerace:  There have been reports that he wasn’t going to run for re-election, then he.might again run for Governor and then thinking he might yet run for re-election (since he started getting so much attention from the press). Maybe if the press turns negative, he will reconsider. Sinema? Who knows?

  63. 63.

    Aaron Rodgers Mustache

    @John S.: i think both are target rich environments, but the union guys that claimed they would have voted for bernie in 2016 general won’t like what is found on manchin, & the yung guevaristas with santeria altars for the squad won’t like what is found on sinema, so will never happen.

  65. 65.

    Betty

    @Kay: I like your priorities and agree about the Medicare expansion. They won’t even talk about taking away the Part B premium which comes out of Social Security benefits,something that would give people more money to use as they need.

  67. 67.

    Cameron

    Personally I think Manchin is willing to deal on child tax credits; after all, Mitch McConnell can gut the program somewhere down the road. The climate change items affect his wallet, however, so I think he’s dead serious about them. Especially so with his comment that he didn’t see a deal happening before October 31 – somebody remind me where Joe Biden will be then?

    I don’t see either him or Sinema going along with tax increases.

  68. 68.

    jnfr

    And Manchin is still out there today insisting that HE is really in the majority, because after all 50 Republicans don’t want the bill to pass either.

  72. 72.

    The Moar You Know

    Manchin’s only interested in Joe Manchin, but is there any lever the rest of us can use to convince him that being the guy who took food out of childrens’ mouths for the benefit of Mitch McConnell isn’t really in his best interest?

    Where’s that two vote margin we need?  Oh, we don’t have it.  Climate stuff is going to go if we want the rest to pass.  And anything Manchin and Sinema don’t want…it’s gonna have to go.  This is exactly what happened with the ACA.

    This is why turnout is a BFD.  Because otherwise one guy really can hold the entire process hostage.  The history of the Senate is replete with examples of this.  Richard Russell stopped any civil rights bills for 25 years.

  73. 73.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Soprano2:

    That’s what spooks me. “Hurr durr, we’ll slap a journalist’s ass in jail, reach ‘em a lesson they’ll never forget. Jury’s already to fire off a conviction at a smarty pants journalist, and we have Republican judges all up the line….”

  74. 74.

    H.E.Wolf

    It’s interesting to note the infrequent commenters, usually with attempts at ultra-macho ‘nyms, who pop in to favor us with misogynistic metaphors and pessimistic predictions.

    They seem to appear whenever the Democrats in Congress are on the verge of making some incremental progress. I suspect their middle names are all “Tovarisch”. :)

  75. 75.

    Soprano2

    @James E Powell: This makes me crazy! Why do they always assume that more conservative people are coming from a place of principle, rather than personal interest and/or corrupt motives?

  77. 77.

    Betty Cracker

    @The Moar You Know: The problem with that strategy is that if Dems strip out all the provisions that address the climate crisis to appease one corrupt senator, it will probably depress turnout, especially among young folks who will be most affected by the unfolding climate catastrophe. I understand the vote margin realities at play here — I’m pretty sure all of us in this discussion do. But the effect of kicking the climate can down the road yet again when time is running out has to be considered too.

  78. 78.

    The Moar You Know

    The problem with that strategy is that if Dems strip out all the provisions that address the climate crisis to appease one corrupt senator, it will probably depress turnout, especially among young folks who will be most affected by the unfolding climate catastrophe. I understand the vote margin realities at play here — I’m pretty sure all of us in this discussion do. But the effect of kicking the climate can down the road yet again when time is running out has to be considered too.

    @Betty Cracker: I wouldn’t even call it a “strategy” and believe me, I understand exactly what this would do to turnout – it would be a repeat of 2010 after the ACA passed and progressives got a whole lot of not much.  But like the ACA, if anything’s going to get passed, those two idiots are going to have to sign off on it.  Because otherwise we get Mitch McConnell’s offer – nothing.  There’s simply no way around those two.

  80. 80.

    Another Scott

    @Betty Cracker: There was a radio interview with a woman Prof at UCSD/UCSB, something like that, on NPR/ATC (IIRC) yesterday.  She is helping to write the climate provisions of the bill.  She said if Manchin won’t accept the power plant provisions then she’ll come up with something else.  She’s not giving up.

    We shouldn’t either.

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  81. 81.

    The Moar You Know

    That’s what spooks me. “Hurr durr, we’ll slap a journalist’s ass in jail, reach ‘em a lesson they’ll never forget. Jury’s already to fire off a conviction at a smarty pants journalist, and we have Republican judges all up the line….”

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:  This reporter might be fucked.  In my limited experience as an expert witness – something I don’t want to do ever again – judges understand fuck-all about computers, probably need to have their goddamn staff turn the machines on because they don’t understand how a power switch works – anyhow, this reporter did something which is technically a crime, namely a violation of the CFAA, the part which states:

    Accessing a Computer and Obtaining Information

    I mean, we all do that, right?  We do.  That reporter did.  Public-facing data even.  But the law doesn’t delineate that.  And the fucked up part is that if a judge buys a prosecutor’s argument of intent, the journalist is looking at:

    1-5 years; 10 years maximum for a second conviction.1-10 years; 20 years maximum for a second conviction.

    I got this drilled into me while getting my CEH certification – don’t go diving into a system without written permission first, because if someone decides to fuck you to death in court they can for just hitting a website.

    Even if the guy gets off, and IMHO in a just world he should simply because the law is an awful law and should be overturned, he’s still going to be out of pocket for a fuckton of lawyer fees and probably some expert witness hours as well.  That’s not cheap as you know.

  84. 84.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @The Moar You Know:

    Immanentize will know aspects of this better than me because I’m rusty on some aspects of criminal law (with us family court people, it’s all “throw words at the wall and ignore statutes and precedent to see what works”), but there may be a little substantive due process safe harbor about holding people criminally responsible over vague statutes.

  85. 85.

    Geminid

    @Betty Cracker: The physical infrastructure bill has funding for charging stations, electric school buses, mass transit and $60 billion for investments in passenger rail. The DOE, Transportation, and Agriculture Departments are reorienting funding towards conservation and clean energy. So the Democrats will have at least some climate change initiatives to go along with efforts on the state level and in the private sector. The clean energy initiatives in the second “infrastructure” bill are badly needed, but even if they are all cut that will not be the last word on federal clean energy action.

    And Democrats can make more clean energy legislation an attractive issue next year. In 2018, Representative Michelle Lujan Grisham made clean energy a centerpiece of her run for New Mexico Governor. She won, and the next year the state legislature passed a robust clean power plan.

  86. 86.

    dmsilev

    Vaccine mandates work:

    Faced with getting a COVID-19 vaccine or losing their jobs, thousands of hesitant Los Angeles school-district employees opted for a last-minute jab, allowing them to access schools and offices on Monday and resulting in 99% compliance among classroom teachers and 97% of all employees.

    Los Angeles — widely viewed as a national leader in COVID-19 safety measures — was among the first major school districts in the nation to issue an ultimatum to all employees amid the summer Delta surge: Get vaccinated or lose your job. The mandate came with the risk of serious disruption in the nation’s second-largest school district, already struggling to fill a high number of teacher and other vacancies.

    Yet the strategy has appeared to work as intended. Members of the administrators union got up to 99.4%. A small fraction of teachers, about 240, apparently opted against vaccination.

    One teacher, who requested anonymity, has long questioned COVID-era policy decisions. This teacher already had COVID, imparting a degree of natural immunity, and thinks the vaccine’s success rate is too low to merit a mandate.

    “I held out as long as I could,” the teacher said. “I’m also pragmatic enough to not throw away 21 years toward retirement.”

    Some really did fall on their swords:

    Goodman, 42, held a sign that read “LAUSD FIRED ME.”

    As with other unvaccinated employees, last Friday was his final day. He said he applied unsuccessfully for a religious exemption.

    Want to guess which category of employees has the lowest compliance rate? The answer will shock you, and by “shock” I mean “come as completely no surprise whatsoever”:

    School police took an especially heavy hit, with 43 of 300 employees not allowed to work as of Monday. The department already is stretched thin because of vacancies and budget cuts and has had to turn down some security requests from schools, a police union official said.

  88. 88.

    Kay

    @Betty:

    The original House version of the package fully funded both the ACA and Medicaid provisions, but did not start Medicare dental benefits until 2028, a move that helps save money.

    Bernie said it’s “non negotiable” which gets on my nerves. Of course it’s negotiable. It’s a HUGE tranche of money dedicated to one group and one program. I don’t like all the ego in these senators. You’re legislators. Stop playing President. They can barely do their own jobs let alone Bidens.
    Just get the money, Bernie. The rest is negotiable.

  89. 89.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker:

    it will probably depress turnout,

    As opposed to any other thing we cut from the bill to get their votes?  It’s not like anyone is out there saying, “Of course you can cut this thing out of Biden’s plan and still get high turnout!”

  90. 90.

    WaterGirl

    @debbie: Nice warning shot to Manchin!  You want to be the center of things?  We can make you be the center of things in another way, and you and your family are not going to like it.

    Can’t wait for Part 2.

  91. 91.

    Edmund Dantes

    https://twitter.com/peteratlantic/status/1449714166441381889?s=21

    “ I asked a White House official about those who are frustrated with inaction on voting rights protections. “Every constituency has their issue,” the official said. “If you ask immigration folks, they’ll tell you their issue is a life-or-death issue too.”

    This White House official needs to be fired into the sun. The amount of privilege dripping from that immigration line is heinous.

  92. 92.

    Shalimar

    Manchin cares about his popularity in West Virginia.  Parts of BBB he opposes are far more popular in West Virginia than he is.  It’s time for independent liberal groups to run negative ads against him, and tell the people of West Virginia what he really is.

  93. 93.

    Just Chuck

    Would be interesting to see a straight up vote on the child tax credit alone. Would 42 Rs filibuster?

    Yes, they would.  And they will pay absolutely zero consequences for it.  Probably get even more votes.

  94. 94.

    Soprano2

    @The Moar You Know: OK, that is absolutely nuts!!! Wow… So how illegal was it for them to put all those SSN’s into the coding of the site in the first place? Almost like someone was trying to help someone else steal those numbers.

  95. 95.

    Kay

    @dmsilev:

    The department already is stretched thin because of vacancies and budget cuts and has had to turn down some security requests from schools, a police union official said.

    The whiniest workforce in the country tells us what they can’t do again. Good. They don’t belong in schools anyway. If you can’t keep order in a school without a cop you need to change your approach.

    My paternal grandmother, who was basically a petty criminal and also might have been a communist (so grain of salt) told us never to call the cops. It’s not bad advice, with reasonable exceptions :)

  97. 97.

    Another Scott

    @Another Scott:

    Here’s the interview with Leah Stokes:

    SHAPIRO: The timing is significant here because President Biden’s about to travel to Scotland for this global climate summit where he wants to portray the U.S. as a leader on this issue. His climate envoy, John Kerry, has said that if Congress does not pass ambitious climate legislation before the summit, it’s going to be like President Trump pulling out of the Paris Agreement again. Because avoiding climate catastrophe does have to be a global effort, what would it mean internationally if the U.S. drops the ball on this just before the summit in Glasgow?

    STOKES: We have a responsibility. We are the largest historic emitter of carbon pollution and No. 2 right now in terms of current carbon pollution. So we’re also the engine of innovation globally. And so if the United States can clean up its electricity system this decade, that will mean that there will be inexpensive technology to sell to other countries or share with them, and the whole planet can really get on that pathway of cleaning up our pollution. So it’s really important that we make progress, and Glasgow is a super important meeting. But my view is that we cannot compromise on the package just because we have this external deadline. We have to get it done right, which means we need something else in the package to make up for the pollution cuts that the Clean Electricity Performance Program was going to deliver.

    SHAPIRO: It sounds like a Catch-22 because if you try to swap this out with some other equally ambitious program, that other equally ambitious program, whether it’s a carbon tax or something else, is likely to run into the same political problems that this is running into right now.

    STOKES: That’s possible, but I think we have to keep trying. You know, when that story came out on the New York Times that the Clean Electricity Performance Program was hitting rough waters, guess what? I woke up Saturday morning and I just kept working because we don’t have the luxury of saying, oh, it’s too hard and we have to give up.

    SHAPIRO: So when you say you kept working Saturday morning, you mean, like, coming up with a Plan B.

    STOKES: Exactly. And everybody who believes in ambitious climate policy did the same thing. They worked all weekend. So there’s lots of ways that we can continue to make progress on the climate crisis. But the package, as it is right now, is not acceptable. We have to have pollution cuts in the power sector because we need every climate tool in the toolbox.

    She’s a strong advocate and will get every climate policy provision she can.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  98. 98.

    trollhattan

    Guessing even up in the hollers of West By-Gawd Virginnie $60k doesn’t get a family too far into the year before real “economic anxiety” hits. He sounds like a standard-issue Friedman-worshipping Republican of the ’80s. How about that multi-trillion buck gift to the rich that congress and Trump passed a scant few years back, if you’re so interested in “fairness” Joe? Kill that off.

  100. 100.

    dmsilev

    @Kay: Fortunately, the school district is out of fucks to give, and the broader city and county government aren’t far behind. The city firefighters are, amazingly, probably even whinier than the cops on this particular subject.

  101. 101.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Betty: @Kay:

    Don’t disagree that reducing the age eligibility or eliminate the Part B premium for Medicare would be easier to administer. But it is ridiculous to have exclusions or different insurance sectors for ears eyes and teeth in our shabby health care system.

  102. 102.

    Lyrebird

    OT: does someone know the right URL for a non-profit news site that has a name like reader funded reporting or people powered reporting?

    It’s like ProPublica but might do more rapid response news. I saw it the other day and thought, good, another alternative source. My Google fu is weak on this.

  103. 103.

    The Moar You Know

    School police took an especially heavy hit, with 43 of 300 employees not allowed to work as of Monday. The department already is stretched thin because of vacancies and budget cuts and has had to turn down some security requests from schools, a police union official said.

    @dmsilev:  One might inadvertently come to the conclusion that there’s something mentally wrong with cops.

  105. 105.

    The Moar You Know

    OK, that is absolutely nuts!!! Wow… So how illegal was it for them to put all those SSN’s into the coding of the site in the first place? Almost like someone was trying to help someone else steal those numbers.

    @Soprano2:  There is no federal law making it illegal, which means state laws apply.  It is a civil offense in CA, not criminal.

    610.035 makes it illegal in MO.  Probably civil not criminal, but that’s an opinion.  However, since the numbers were coded into the site code and not, strictly speaking, public, everyone gets to go to court to define whether site data is “public” or not.  I know what the IT end of things would say, but you’re dealing with a judge here, not an IT department.  I wish this guy luck because he’s gonna need all of it.  Especially in that state.

    I do agree with your suspicion as to intent.

  107. 107.

    Soprano2

    @dmsilev: I heard a blub on NPR this morning where an EMT was talking about how the vaccine mandates would cause EMT shortages, and all I could think was “you whiny shit, just get vaccinated!”. One of my Jazzercise teachers says she has neighbors who are in their early 90’s. The wife got Covid and died, and they think she got it from an EMT who came with the ambulance her husband called because of something else.

  109. 109.

    Burnspbesq

    @Ksmiami: 

    Just out of idle curiosity, what Federal criminal statute do you allege Manchin’s daughter violated, and what is the factual basis for your allegation?

    If you can’t or won’t answer, then kindly STFU about this.

  111. 111.

    Kay

    @Sure Lurkalot:

    I agree that the distinction doesn’t make sense, but I would urge liberals to stay focused on a big picture.

    The child care piece is a fundamental change- a step forward. It’s a big deal. I’d invest in that.

  112. 112.

    cain

    @The Moar You Know:

    What is annoying is that we never had a circumstance where we could finally get our agenda going. For the ACA we had Lieberman, because by all that is holy we lost our senior senator from Massachusetts and of course replaced by a Republican.

    One day the stars are going to align and we will have the majority without any punks standing in the way.

  115. 115.

    Kay

    @Sure Lurkalot:

    They can easily give up the two years of community college. All states will be at high school plus 2 in a decade- it’ll be the norm- just like high school is the norm now. That’s gonna happen anyway.

    Sadly, IMO, Manchin and Sinema are not really negotiating on the edges. They’re opposing the must haves, and using the negotiable items to muddy the water. The progressives probably know it, so are not moving on the negotiables thinking they’ll give up a lot and still hit the Manchin/Sinema wall on taxes and climate change. This would be a heck of a lot easier if the conservative D’s would drop all this bullshit and just get to the point. I don’t dislike them because they’re conservative. I dislike them because they won’t tell the truth about what they want.

  116. 116.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @jnfr: Totally self-absorption. He figures that if things come out OK for him, then probably a lot of other people (who are like him) will do OK, too.

    Everyone else? Fuck, does anyone else even exist?

  117. 117.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I wish people understood how much this would help the job market! Lack of child care makes it so much harder for women to work, and that hurts men as well as women. I also agree that I wish men would talk more about how this affects them, because making it happen when it’s seen as a “women’s issue” is an extremely heavy lift. There is still a significant part of the population that thinks we shouldn’t make it easier for white middle-class women to work!

  118. 118.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Wow.

    I just pied the dumbass mustache guy and my headache is gone. Amazing.

    It’s an option I recommend highly.

  119. 119.

    Ruckus

    What does it cost to make work requirements/means testing actually happen?

    Aren’t we spending a lot of money to not spend a bit of money?

    Aren’t we looking at a guy who comes from one of the more poor states, who has a lot of money himself from the absolutely filthy business of coal, which has exploited the working people of his state for a lot of decades, telling the rest of the world that we can’t make those actual citizens of his state (and the other 49) better off for once rather than exploiting them for no reason other than because he’s being an ass?

  120. 120.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    Agree. I also don’t think people know how much it costs. I used child care at the Y and I was mostly happy with it when mine were little and I mentioned that to a younger client who is currently using it. She laughed at loud when I told her what I paid. It’s 3x that now :)
    I genuinely believe that if make women the face of it it will fail. You saw the sneering contempt for Mayor Pete – that’s contempt for the work that women traditionally do.
    I also love the idea that no adult is required when they’re asleep. Yup. You just shut em off and store them till they wake up. No one has to be there. You can’t be two places at once! Not possible!

  122. 122.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    “Jason Campbell
    @JasonSCampbell

    Newsmax host: “Pete Buttigieg is a man and so is his husband. They did not have to have these kids now. They’re not up against any biological clock”

    As you know, from the employer side, there is never a good time for employees to have kids. That’s the truth. Purely as a business decision? Bad. So for my part I just don’t fucking MONITOR their child decisions.
    Kids are universal too. Not everyone has them but everyone was one.

  124. 124.

    Another Scott

    RollCall:

    Senate Democrats said Monday they are looking at alternative proposals for reducing carbon emissions amid West Virginia centrist Joe Manchin III’s opposition to a $150 billion clean electricity performance program.

    Manchin opposes the program, which would provide subsidies to utilities that shift to renewable energy sources like solar, wind and nuclear and meet certain emission targets while penalizing those that don’t, and said he thinks energy companies are already making the transition. West Virginia is a top producer of coal and natural gas — energy sources that would likely draw penalties under the proposed program.

    Some Senate climate hawks begrudgingly acknowledged Monday that the CEPP may not make it into the final package and that Democrats are discussing alternative proposals.

    “I’ve been told it would be prudent to plan alternatives and be very happy if it is not out,” Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, D-R.I., said.

    The acknowledgement was just one of a few signs Monday that Democrats have started working through obstacles that Manchin — who effectively holds veto power over the partisan budget reconciliation package in the 50-50 Senate — has erected as his party seeks to unify around a package of social spending and climate programs, offset by tax increases on corporations and wealthy individuals.(HR 5376)

    Another sign was that Manchin met directly Monday with top progressives who have polar opposite priorities. He told reporters he had “good” meetings with Senate Budget Chairman Bernie Sanders, I-V.t., and Congressional Progressive Caucus Chairwoman Pramila Jayapal, D-Wash., but he declined to get into details.

    “We’re all meeting and talking, that’s good,” Manchin said.

    Sanders also declined to provide details but said he would continue talks with Manchin and others in an effort to wrap up negotiations that “have been going on for month after month after month.”

    “I would hope that we’re going to see some real action within the next week or so,” he said.

    […]

    Things are moving pretty quickly now, as one probably should have expected given the “MoU” that Manchin made Schumer sign saying that Manchin wouldn’t start working on it until October 1. 19 days is lightning fast for the Senate!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  126. 126.

    Lyrebird

    @Another Scott:

    Thanks!  That may be what I was remembering…  Much appreciated.

     

    Guess I should also sign up for Boehlert’s newsletter and bother to see what Jay Rosen is up to lately.

    I don’t want to give CNN any more clicks.

  127. 127.

    Ksmiami

    @Villago Delenda Est: Thank you. I feel like I’ve been alone on this soapbox for awhile. What a little pissant. We will actually be better off without him and I especially hate him for his BS Hyde posturing.

  128. 128.

    Kay

    @Another Scott:

    Some Senate climate hawks begrudgingly acknowledged Monday that the CEPP may not make it into the final package and that Democrats are discussing alternative proposals.

    That’s a big hit though. Ooof. I hope they’re not stupid enough to hit consumers as a replacement for the industry policy. That’s the conservative ideological approach and it’s a political disaster. Let the Right wing put that in. It’s theirs. They shouldn’t take a political hit for a Right wing policy.

  130. 130.

    Kay

    All I would ask is this. Don’t put in unpopular conservative policy at Manchin’s insistence. Drop the provision before you do that. Saddling Democrats with shitty Right wing policy WHILE eleminating progressive approaches is madness. Don’t lose twice.

    No Republicans are voting for this. If Democrats get stuck trying to sell shit that Republicans won’t sell or support you’re just doing their work for them. If it’s a choice between that or “nothing” on climate change, take nothing and move on.

    There are worse things than losing part of this. The “worse thing” is letting conservatives direct Democratic policy and then Democrats having to sell it. Republicans don’t do shit. If they want Right wing, unpopular policy they can damn well vote for it.

  132. 132.

    greenergood

    Have scrolled through super-quick through comments so please excuse if already noted, but  a commenter at DKos the other day said the gov’t should just buy out the WV coal industry – a $3.5 trillion BBB act is being held up by a comparatively peanuts $20 billion dying ‘industry’.  So rescue it:  buy the whole shebang – change its priorities – give coalminers new green renewable jobs – thus bailing out Mooch Manchin. I know it’s bribery, but needs must … Then there’s just the drama queen left … And then somehow change the whole voting system – the fact that two idiotic DINO grandstanders can hold an entire country (and planet) to ransom is just ridiculous.

  133. 133.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Soprano2:

    I’m thinking that if the low bidder subcontracted it out to a developing world vendor, that’s where those numbers were deliberately leaked into the wild and have long been on the open market.

  134. 134.

    Burnspbesq

    @Ksmiami:

    If that’s all you’ve got, your case will never make it to a jury. Any competent white-collar defense lawyer will get her a deferred prosecution agreement that is barely a slap on the wrist—or convince an overworked AUSA that there is no case.

  135. 135.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Betty Cracker:

    @The Moar You Know: The problem with that strategy is that if Dems strip out all the provisions that address the climate crisis to appease one corrupt senator, it will probably depress turnout, especially among young folks who will be most affected by the unfolding climate catastrophe. I understand the vote margin realities at play here — I’m pretty sure all of us in this discussion do. But the effect of kicking the climate can down the road yet again when time is running out has to be considered too.

    @The Moar You Know:

    @Betty Cracker: I wouldn’t even call it a “strategy” and believe me, I understand exactly what this would do to turnout – it would be a repeat of 2010 after the ACA passed and progressives got a whole lot of not much.  But like the ACA, if anything’s going to get passed, those two idiots are going to have to sign off on it.  Because otherwise we get Mitch McConnell’s offer – nothing.  There’s simply no way around those two.

    The problem is, this approach basically says, “we’ll deal with climate change later” when the odds are against any ‘later’ opportunity to deal with it in this decade.

    This might could be the only shot we’ve got. We’ve got to try to get what we can re climate change now.

    @Another Scott:

    @Betty Cracker: There was a radio interview with a woman Prof at UCSD/UCSB, something like that, on NPR/ATC (IIRC) yesterday.  She is helping to write the climate provisions of the bill.  She said if Manchin won’t accept the power plant provisions then she’ll come up with something else.  She’s not giving up.

    We shouldn’t either.

    It’s good to know the players involved are trying hard to make this shot work.  I’m gonna keep on calling my Congresscritters, telling them to keep the climate change provisions strong.

  137. 137.

    Another Scott

    @greenergood: It won’t work.  Manchin’s opposition is mainly ideological, not financial.

    JoeManchinWV:

    Energy:

    West Virginians take pride in the important role that the Mountain State plays as a major energy producer. Senator Manchin is fighting in the U.S. Senate to keep West Virginia coal miners on the job and support West Virginia’s energy economy. He is focused on creating a comprehensive national energy policy that will recognize the key role that coal plays in making the United States more energy independent. Joe wants to find a bipartisan pathway to harness domestic energy resources, including coal, natural gas, biomass, nuclear, wind, and solar.

    Joe is working to bring a natural gas storage hub to West Virginia that can capitalize on the wet gas in the Ohio River Valley. A storage hub has the potential to significantly spur economic growth across the Appalachian region, and given West Virginia’s geographic location, establishing a local hub has the added benefit of strengthening America’s national security.

    Coal Miners:

    Coal miner safety is deeply personal to Joe. In 1968, Joe’s uncle was killed in a tragic coal mining accident when Farmington No. 9 exploded. He’s introduced the Robert C. Byrd Mine Safety Protection Act, to give the Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) the tools to investigate dangerous mines that put our coal miners at risk, and ensure that reckless coal operators are held accountable. Joe wants MSHA to have the funding and support they need to keep coal miners safe.

    Manchin championed the Miners Protection Act to save health care for coal miners, and In 2017, he successfully secured permanent funding for healthcare benefits for 22,600 miners and their families. Joe is working to guarantee the promised pension benefits our coal miners earned by taking the lead on passing the American Miners Pension Act.

    He’s doing what he said he was fighting for when running for office.

    There are ways to get him on-board (generous pension benefits for miners and survivors, creating new markets for coal (e.g. instead of burning the stuff, use it for new materials to replace bad plastics, etc.), similarly for gas), and I’m sure that Democrats are working to find them.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  138. 138.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Climate change isn’t just young progressives either. It’s the educated, fairly well-off suburbanites that Democrats need in swing counties. They’re the people who own property (ground) and are going to be paying for it when it burns or floods or blows away. Real estate will become impossible to insure. Really rich people can escape from climate change. Ordinary better off people cannot, and they have a lot of their “wealth” tied up in real estate. Not vast holdings- their main residence and maybe a vacation spot. They know this. The value starts to drop on this property and a lot of people who think they’re “worth” a million dollars between real estate and retirement savings are not. Property value is really important to them.

  140. 140.

    hueyplong

    “She said if Manchin won’t accept the power plant provisions then she’ll come up with something else.”

    That’s a great thing to know, but a horrible thing to tell the Senator from WV through the media. Please stop doing so.

  142. 142.

    Baud

    What I’ve learned from the debate over the last few months is that I can stop worrying about climate change once this bill is done, because this bill is the whole shebang.

  144. 144.

    Baud

    Would a progressive lawmaker succumb to threats of prosecution of a family member? If not, what’s the basis for believing that Manchin would?

  145. 145.

    J R in WV

    @Citizen Alan: ​
     

    Yes, and the ACLU also supported the right of Illinois Nazi Fascists to demonstrate in a Jewish neighborhood/town.

    Never-the-less, yesterday when a fund-raiser called to ask us to donate a few dollars more to the ACLU, I instead doubled our monthly donation.

    Why do you suppose a progressive socialist retiree like me did that?

    Just confused?

    Hell, it was worth it just to astonish the fund raiser.

  146. 146.

    Ruckus

    @Kay:

    It builds losses that make the next round far easier for the conservatives to strip out benefits.

    Not paying for promises is just about the keynote of conservative policies, including conservative democrats and leads to “Oh my god we have to make cuts!” It is good conservative politics, promise BS and deliver BS. It doesn’t make a country better, although it does seem to enhance the bank accounts of some politicians, often on both sides of the aisle.

  147. 147.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay: Property value is really important to them.

    I would like to think their kids are really important to them.

    That’s pretty much where I’m coming from here: I don’t want the world to be a hellhole in 50 years, when my 14 year old is 64.

    And it seems absolutely, totally crazy to me that I’m sitting here on tenterhooks, wondering whether we’ll leave him a decent sort of planet.  It is just so fucked that this is hanging in the balance right now.

  149. 149.

    Kay

    Sarah Ferris
    @sarahnferris
    New Dems — the centrist Dem
    group championing child tax credit — releases sharp statement pushing back on Manchin income caps/work requirements.
    “New Dems would have serious concerns with any changes that undermine the success of this historic opportunity for families.”

    About time. If I were a centrist I don’t know that I would want Right wing Manchin and Sinema defining my position. The centrists speak!

  150. 150.

    Ruckus

    @greenergood:

    I nominate this comment for whatever award is available or that we can make up.

    They understand being bought off, hell they seem to be playing the game at the cost of the entire nation. Not sure what KS wants, not sure she knows what she wants, but JM, we know what he wants, his palm greased, along with the palms of the coal barrens that bought him. The only problem I see with this solution is that it’s a one and done deal, he doesn’t get to keep milking coal till the end of his days. And he’s invested in coal, it’s made him wealthy, it’s made him powerful, at least now, and he gets to screw millions, just to make his retirement days a bit wealthier. On the scale of easy wealth, this one is a no brainer. For him.

  151. 151.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Oh, sure, them :)

    It shouldn’t be, but climate change is an “educated Dem” issue. That’s an important constituency for Democrats in suburbs, hence important to “centrist” D’s too.  They’re the swingy voters D’s rely on in midterms because the more educated the more likely to vote.

  152. 152.

    Ksmiami

    @Burnspbesq: then take over the coal companies through eminent domain, claim they’re superfund cleanup sites and tell Manchin you’d be happy to reimburse the state for the costs etc if he signs onto the legislation at hand. But if that doesn’t work end negotiations. Full court press against Manchin and the GOP.

  153. 153.

    Ksmiami

    @The Moar You Know: Playing devil’s advocate- let’s say the Senate is controlled by McConnell, then Biden has an immediate enemy to focus on and to motivate squishy voters to elect more and better Democrats. Not a lot happens But the Republicans would be less averse to raising the debt ceiling as they will shoulder as much or more of the blame if default happens. And there’s more risk in McConnell’s do nothing position since he’ll actually be in a hot seat. But I can say that the longer these negotiations go on, the worse the outcome for everyone

  154. 154.

    Ben Cisco

    @Ksmiami:

    But the Republicans would be less averse to raising the debt ceiling as they will shoulder as much or more of the blame if default happens.

    Presumes facts not in evidence, either at this time or at any time in the past, and I’ve been watching since the Watergate hearings.

  155. 155.

    Ksmiami

    @Ben Cisco: then burn it to the fucking ground. If the system can get this hung up by one or two people, it no longer is a Democratic system and  it’s definitely outlived it’s usefulness in a nation of 330 million plus people

  156. 156.

    Bill Arnold

    @greenergood:

    the fact that two idiotic DINO grandstanders can hold an entire country (and planet) to ransom is just ridiculous.

    Thank you. We need to start a national (international) conversation about buying out fossil fuel reserves so that they can be kept safely underground (or used for purposes that don’t involve GHG emission).
    It’s clear that many here have not fully internalized how dire the global heating[1] crisis will be even in the near couple of decades future. Agriculture will start breaking, with massive crop failures, due to changes in precipitation patterns and temperature increases. Large fisheries will start collapsing. The risk of large scale war, including nuclear war, will increase. Within several decades, some regions near the equator will be uninhabitable by humans without 100 percent reliable air conditioning (including electricity infrastructure), with no lapses longer than a few hours. (Wet Bulb Globe Temperature exceeding human tolerances for extended periods of time).

    A basic calculation that assume that the GHG-emissions trajectory we’re on will continue (even without much positive feedback e.g. permafrost melting) and that the resulting heating will end up killing half the global human population gives a figure of about 1 human life lost per 300-350 tons of West Virginia (bituminous) coal burned. (Jigger the numbers by a factor of 2-4 less, and they’re still bad; Holocaust was 10M for numerical perspective.) That makes people like Joe Manchin perpetrators of mass homicide in the fullness of time. They may not think of themselves as evil people (few do), but they are objectively evil.

    [1] The Guardian has this right – it is Global Heating, not Climate Change.

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