In case you’re new to Medium Cool, BGinCHI is here once a week to offer a thread on culture, mainly film & books, with some TV thrown in. We’re here at 7 pm on Sunday nights.
In November 2018 I read somewhere that the director David Lowery was making a film of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. I teach it regularly and had just taught it and some supporting material. In particular, an incredible essay by Geraldine Heng called “Feminine Knots and the Other Sir Gawain and the Green Knight” (originally published in PMLA, 1991) that I use every time I teach the poem. I really liked Lowery’s films and thought “what the hell,” so I emailed him and suggested he read Heng’s article, since it would open up a perspective no other reading does.
Five weeks later I received a lengthy, enthusiastic response. I was pretty floored, as I wasn’t even sure I had the right email address when I cold-emailed him.
Lowery was eager to read the Heng piece and was curious about other things a non-specialist ought to look at to have the widest possible sense of what the stakes are in the poem, its deeper resonances, etc. I’m not a medievalist, nor a bona fide SGGK scholar, but I’ve done a lot of research on the poem to teach it, and for a backburner project on Shakespeare’s history plays and the Order of the Garter Ceremony. So I recommended several things (Helen Cooper, Francis Ingledew, et al.). This led to a lively back and forth about the structure of the poem, the relationships between its characters, the romance’s subplots, and so on.
At one point I suggested that the film “Point Blank” might be an interesting way to think about how a narrative that blends past/present/future for the main character can work. Lowery responded that this was “fascinating” and “food for thought.” And now I’m wondering whether this contributed to what he does with the last part of the film, which I won’t give away here.
I wanted to offer this anecdote as a very unexpected occurrence for me, and also to provoke discussion about how this interpretation of a classic text got made. I’m not suggesting I had any influence, but I do think Lowery’s very careful, smart re-telling takes advantage of the female agency Heng so beautifully reinscribes in her reading.
Let’s discuss the film widely and deeply. From its stunning cinematography, to its terrific performances, to its themes and subjects. And if you’re familiar with the original, give us your take on what Lowery does with it.
BGinCHI
After reading what I’ve written here, I’m really, really itching to see SGGK again.
I was taken in by its world-building, visual compositions, and deviations from the original story in my first viewing, and am sorry to say I haven’t seen it again.
BGinCHI
I’m just back from the theater, where I saw Dune.
I REALLY don’t want us to derail this thread to talk about it, but I do want to announce that next week it will be our subject here.
Of course Villeneuve’s film version (available on HBO, but also in theaters, which I highly recommend), but also the novel, Lynch’s version, etc.
Looking forward to it.
Joy in FL
I’m pretty sure that in the late 70s I read all or most of SGGK in Middle English for a class I eagerly took in my one year of graduate school. I loved it and loved working with Middle English. So I know the plot in its most general outline, and I wish I had read it recently in any English : )
I loved the visual lushness of the film. I just loved it, and for that alone, I want to re-watch it.
I think that Dev Patel was brilliant as Gawain. He is not an actor I would have expected for the role, and I watched him all the more intently because he didn’t fit my idea of Gawain as an Arthurian knight. I thought I saw the character trying so hard to be whatever it was that he was supposed to be, and being either unable to figure out the world of the Round Table or simply that he did not fit in and never would.
phdesmond
@BGinCHI:
BG, that’s a fascinating anecdote about your exchange with the director!
i haven’t seen the movie yet, but i did read the poem as part of studying English lit, some decades ago!
Joy in FL
I love how the Green Knight rode his horse into the hall. Of course I remembered that part from reading, and I found the way this film brought that scene to life was great.
BGinCHI
@Joy in FL: I thought the casting was excellent throughout. Patel as the lead was smart, and he’s terrific.
And since The King, I’ve become a big Joel Edgerton fan. I’d seen him in things before that, but had no idea how talented he was (esp. as a writer).
Joy in FL
BG, I love knowing that story about you communicating with the director. I want to read that article; I just found it at a scholarly site for a modest fee, so I am going to get it and see what that is before I watch the film again.
BGinCHI
@phdesmond:
Obviously, I highly recommend it!
Benw
Argh, I forgot to watch SGGK even though WG had told us it was coming! I still remember the text fondly from undergrad Eng Lit and would be thrilled to read the Heng essay if it exists online. What streaming service is SGGK on, again? And I’m not sure what to do about DUNE, since I don’t want to get ANOTHER streaming service but I’m also a little freaked out about 2.5 hrs in a theater?
I just realized I sound EXACTLY like the freshman who showed up to the second week of class not realizing that yes, all that work you “forgot” was expected, you’re in college now. :)
Dorothy A. Winsor
I haven’t seen Sir Gawain but now I want to. What a great story about emailing the director though. Talk about a shot in the dark.
quakerinabasement
@Joy in FL: I’m a fan of Patel. I thought this character would be hard for him to make believable. I mean, this is an English tale, full of the whitest white people around.
I was so wrong. Patel was awesome.
BGinCHI
@Joy in FL:
Fun fact.
After she published it (in PMLA), some crusty old white dude wrote in to announce that he and his gray-bearded colleagues understood the poem perfectly well without have to think about women and what they might or might not be up to. Just the most arrogant, mansplaining shit.
In PMLA, they print letters, and then responses, and printed with it was her response, which completely eviscerates him.
BGinCHI
If anyone wants a pdf of Heng’s article, ask WaterGirl for my email and get in touch and I’ll send it to you.
It might not be legal, but I’m an outlaw by nature.
Joy in FL
@BGinCHI: Excellent for her! I just purchased the article through JSTOR for $4.
BGinCHI
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I honestly had only good intentions. And selfishly, I suppose, I wanted to see a smart, ripping SGGK, which is what he did.
Really proud of him for taking something so challenging and making an excellent, highly entertaining film out of it.
Joy in FL
@quakerinabasement: I think that was part of what I found so compelling about him in that role. It was not an obvious match, and seeing him work that role was really wonderful for me.
BGinCHI
@Benw: Think of it as supporting the arts!
I totally hear you, but DAMN, seeing that on the big screen was worth the risk to me (easy for me to say, I know). SGGK too, which I saw this summer.
BGinCHI
@Joy in FL:
She is a really, really great scholar. This book (on the invention of the concept of race in the middle ages) is a must-read if you’re interested in the subject.
Joy in FL
@BGinCHI: wow. Thanks for calling my attention to her. I always want to read more than I could read in several lifetimes, but that is a very happy problem :
I downloaded the sample e-book and will have a look.
schrodingers_cat
Perhaps I should give Dev Patel another chance. Slumdog millionaire irritated the crap out of me. And then I saw him in Marigold Hotel I think it was called, that cemented the dislike.
phdesmond
for old time’s sake, i’m looking over a modern translation of the original poem. it looks like a product of the oral tradition, and it seems that portions of two separate narratives have gone into it, occasionally duplicating a line of dialog.
Modern Translation – W. A. Neilson
phdesmond
@phdesmond:
the green knight is the original headless horseman!
sab
@schrodingers_cat: I liked him a lot in “The Newsroom” HBO series about cable news.
schrodingers_cat
@sab: I haven’t seen that.
sab
@BGinCHI: Thanks for the reminder. I had heard of the book but never read it. Just bought it on my Nook.
raven
I’m looking at this thinking why would they have a thread about Camper Van Beethoven and Cracker.
BGinCHI
@raven: Funniest part is that when I lived in Athens (the first time) I was friends with Velena and through her got to know the David Lowery of whom you speak. He’d just moved to Richmond after the CVB breakup and was recording the early Cracker songs. He’d come to Athens and when she was working he and I would hang out.
And now they’re married!
sab
Sadly, thread seems to have died. I want to see the movie now, after reading the poem.
I was a history major in college, focusing on British medieval and early modern legal and constitutional. I have been aware of the poem for decades but never got around to reading it.
I know the poem is medieval fantasy not actuality, but I think Patel was a good choice, aside from his own abilities. He is an Englishman everyone thinks is Indian. Medieval Britain was a jumble of many different cultures and tribes and languages, all jostling around. We shouldn’t think of them as all the same and all one people. They were trying to blend together a mix of peoples and cultures same as we do, only their mix was more diverse and more mixed.
BGinCHI
@sab: Excellent points.
Trying to make Arthur “English” has been a going concern for a long time, policed by the same people who brought you Empire.
Torrey
Unfortunately, I haven’t seen the film. It was at a local theater that I know to be very careful about air filtration, masking and checking vaccination status, but it only had a few showings there, and I couldn’t quite manage to feel comfortable about going to a theater–not quite yet. However, I checked every scene I could find online and have read all the reviews I could find. One thing that the film seems to have done that is the poem does not, is represent Gawain as a pretty poor example of knightly virtues. Very modern, but I think the seeds of that may also be present in the poem itself. And I rather like that approach.
Any chance of revisiting this topic after the movie has gone to streaming and more of us have had a chance to see it?
sab
@Torrey: Yes please. Let’s try again later.
sab
Duplicate. urk.
sab
@schrodingers_cat: Aaron Sorkin show about news shows.
Faithful Lurker
I really want to watch the movie (ITunes) and will soon. But I’m listening to an audible version of the poem and love it.
BretH
Some moments of cinematic wonderment, much sodden pacing and dialogue. So much incomprehensibleness. So much murky darkness. I really wanted to like this movie but left highly disappointed, and this was at home, with a decent size TV and very good sound system and good wine.
Tehanu
I dunno. In the poem Gawain is truly a “parfait gentil knight” — people keep saying how great he is. and there’s a lot of dwelling on his appearance and his gear echoing his moral purity. In the movie he seemed to me to be much more a modern conflicted protagonist, which took away the point of the story that even someone who is a moral exemplar cannot always be purely moral and right. That’s the writing and direction, of course; I thought Dev Patel was pretty good given the setup, and Joel Edgerton is always terrific. It was an interesting adaptation, but not a faithful one.
Leto
@BGinCHI: I haven’t seen this weeks topic film, but as someone who’s read Dune (kind of obvious) and it’s five sequels pretty regularly for the past 35 years, I have so much to say about this version. Also looking forward to it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Tehanu: My inner vision of Gawain is always informed by T. H. White’s Once and Future King. He’s always a bit irritable and aggressively Scottish in my mind.
Bodacious
@Torrey: I also would like the chance to revisit in a side discussion. Not sure how that can be done without hijacking BJ posting. Am thinking I could see it within a week, and then a day or two to ruminate. Since I’m mostly a lurker, not convinced I would unmute my microphone….but it sounds like a worthy topic.
I’m out of sync with US time zones for the next few months, so please provide 1-2 days heads-up. Either way, eager to watch. Thanks!!
Torrey
So I apparently wasn’t paying attention. Word is, it’s streaming now on Apple TV, iTunes, and Amazon Prime.
Bodacious
@Bodacious: Ok, that was the whole point of Watergirl’s pre-post….enough time to watch. [faceplant]
quakerinabasement
@Joy in FL: Following on after David Copperfield, why would we be surprised?
quakerinabasement
@schrodingers_cat: He might be the male version of Anne Hathaway. He’s so f’n earnest, people want to hate him.
cleek
loved the movie. loved the look, the ambiguity, thought it was just trippy enough to avoid being simple.
liked the way they didn’t go with a pure white cast.
didn’t like the way i couldn’t not see Groot and Treebeard in The Green Night himself.
Tenar Arha
Sorry I missed this. It was the first movie I saw post-pandemic in a local theater that was careful about masking. When I’d heard about it, I just knew I had to see it in the theater, & I’m just so glad I got to see it properly. I just thought it was beautiful & trippy. Dev Patel was great.
Torrey
@Tehanu:
Gawain has a lot of development through the sequence of Arthurian stories. He starts as Arthur’s best knight and heir (in Celtic tradition, a man’s sister’s son is his heir, since that is the one person he can be sure is related to him), but when a new tradition is added–in this case the French tradition with Launcelot–the previous best knight has to be demoted to make room for the new guy, so to speak. That’s why Malory’s Gawain is a lecherous blowhard. There’s a little left of the “Knight of the Maidens” when his ghost returns to speak to Arthur, but otherwise, not much. The Gawain poet is working with a tradition that has not yet incorporated Launcelot.
currawong
@BGinCHI: As you probably haven’t come across this, here’s the review from The Age in Melbourne:
https://www.theage.com.au/culture/movies/starring-dev-patel-the-green-knight-is-not-your-usual-medieval-epic-20211020-p591l8.html