I called Watergirl at around 1pm on my way to run errands, and wanted to let her know that I had thought about it and finally just given up and was willing to go ad free starting the 15th, and that was when I had learned she had posted about it this morning. We had talked about it yesterday, and either through miscommunication or sensing weakness, Watergirl struck while the iron was hot (and I am glad she did).
At any rate, if you are unaware, Watergirl has been on Team No Ad for two years and not hesitant to make the switch or coax me into making the switch. I understand why- they’re ugly, irritate some people, and she thinks the website will function better without them. All of these are valid opinions, and given how much trust I have in her opinions on these matters, not things I dismissed lightly. She is also of the belief that the website can easily be user funded and there will never be liquidity issues.
I, on the other hand, am resistant for a variety of reasons. Obviously, my name is on the bill, so that is one reason. Another reason is that ads simply do not irritate me. I do not see them. I don’t notice them. I guess I just process information differently. I could read an entire NY Times Sunday Edition and then at gunpoint be asked to name an ad, and, well, that would be the end of me. A third reason is that I look at ads as free money, and especially love it when right wing causes advertise here. Fuck yes- spend your donor money on people who will not click on your shit. Less money for you to spend on other onerous stuff.
Additionally, I do not like being reliant on donations for a variety of reasons- first, I’d rather you spend your money on other shit, I don’t want bills I am on the hook paid for by the whims of others, what happens if traffic dies and donors piss off, what happens if people don’t have the spare money, on and on and on. There is also the fact that I absolutely hate asking for money. I wish I was independently wealthy and could just pay for everything and be done with it. This is not the case, though, although were I independently wealthy I would have fucked off into the woods with the pets and picked up some goats and pigs and hens and other critters and I’d leave the website to someone else and maybe posted once a month when I found some morels or something interesting happened around the house.
I’m rambling and this post has already left the tight form I had when I was mentally composing. I suppose there was also some just resistance from me on principle. I can not state how many times I have fielded emails or read complaints in the comments and run my fingers through my hair and just screamed one variation of the following:
JUST INSTALL A FUCKING ADBLOCKER
WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS IS BURGER KING FUCKING HAVE IT YOUR WAY
I’M FUCKING SORRY IN THE YEAR 2021 YOU ARE NOT HAVING AN OPTIMAL EXPERIENCE ON YOUR 2011 CHROMEBOOK OR 2013 KINDLE USING AIRPORT WIFI
ADS DON’T USE THAT MUCH FUCKING BANDWIDTH
WHY IS BALLOON JUICE THE ONLY WEBSITE ON THE INTERNET WHERE THESE THINGS HAPPEN
Like that reload bug. I simply can not replicate it. The designer for this website can not replicate it. The ad developers can not replicate it. The only time it happened for the designer was if he left a tab open for like an hour and then it refreshed. Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying these things don’t happen and you all are lying. It has happened to enough of you that something is going on, but I just don’t understand why we can not fix it or even figure out what is causing it.
I’ve had all these conversations with Watergirl, and she has consistently been on your side saying it is happening and we should go ad free and that we are not like other websites. And I am here to say, fine. I give up. I am raising the white flag. If you all want to pay for this, that’s how we will do it.
Balloon Juice is simultaneously a special place and a “special” place. We are not like other websites, that is for sure. Somehow we have cultivated an odd melange of anachronistic malcontents, cat ladies, artists and lawyers, grumpy codgers, foodies, hopeless romantics, animal lovers, ne’er-do-wells, people here just to not be fucked with, people here just to avoid other websites, pure of heart charitable do-gooders, mainstream Democrats, and my favorite group, do-gooders who secretly harbor murderous intent but know it is not socially acceptable to admit it but who will allude to it whenever possible. All that and more. And I do not say that in a disparaging way, because I fit into several of those groups.
So, as long as I feel that we can pass and maintain a threshold of funding that will pay the monthly bills, all ads are gone. When we need money to pay for random expenses (additional coding, purchasing apps, paying for email providers, etc.- shit piles up), we’ll rattle the cup.
But I am over stressing about this and over fighting what I feel is a rearguard action and just want the site to be able to exist in perpetuity.
I love you all, just some days more than others.
Good News: Who Wants a Balloon Juice With No Ads At All?
schrodingers_cat
Ads don’t bother me either. BTW which BJer malcontent am I ?
Pamoya
And John is the curmudgeon-in-chief! :D I’m excited that the site will be ad-free. :)
(BTW I answer to the description of “cat lady”)
David Anderson
I resemble several of those categories
matt
Yeah, the ads don’t bug me either.
I just don’t really see the big issue.
I hope that this site doesn’t run into problems and suffer because of this decision – I’d think having the flexibility to just schedule some more ads if money becomes tight is a useful one to keep in your pocket.
The Dangerman
What if we don’t know where we are but just don’t care?
/Kentucky fried movie
Jim, Foolish Literalist
me too, exception noted for the autoplays and those zergnet or whatever celebrity clickbait (You won’t BELIEVE who Lucille Ball’s granddaughter is sleeping with!), I don’t really care. But I was shocked at how much it looks like this site cost from WG’s post, so I made a larger donation than I usually do. Go ad-free, bank the $$ I sent for the next incoming bill. I don’t care.
John Cole
@matt: I don’t think it will but if it does the ads will go back up. It’s not the end of the world. I’m just glad Watergirl finally pushed me in this direction so I can stop worrying about it.
raven
So do I cancel the paetron thing or what?
Eljai
I love you too, Cole. Even if you did just insult my 2013 kindle. And if you want to spend all the revenue on bows for Lily or manicures for Steve, I’d still be proud to subscribe. Prouder, actually.
MazeDancer
Raising money is easy. We can have an annual or semi-annual event. Balloon Juice Week. Complete with stickers.
But for a week, we remind people time to pay for the lack of ads. And everyone gives what they can.
WaterGirl is good at raising money. Ask Four Directions.
WaterGirl
@raven: No!
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
I agree with John on ads – they don’t bother me, and compared to the hell that is today’s average news site, B-J hardly has any ads.
I contribute whenever John rattles the cup and I’ll continue to do that, and if folks want to contribute more to get rid of ads, that’s great. But I won’t be contributing extra just to be rid of ads. It just isn’t that big a deal to me.
HeleninEire
This is good, John. The ads don’t bother me at all but I’ve been way too lax in contributing. Not sure which malcontent category I belong to but for sure if this were my blog I would definitely be screaming that shit at my commenters too.
gvg
I don’t see most adds myself, thanks to my 4th grade teacher who taught us to ignore ads, however I do notice when things get buggy or slow for me. It’s pretty random on when I get impacted. Most times when people are complaining, I don’t have the issue, but sometimes I do.
I am willing to pay. I’d like the paying to be a nice easy button with a simple process….Not in favor of patreon as it would be new to me. Probably ought to have choices, because people seem to have a wide range of preferences.
zhena gogolia
@raven: Aren’t we supposed to donate via Patreon? I have to remember how to set it up. I have two Patreon thingies, one to BillinGlendale, but I can’t remember how I got them started.
Betty Cracker
I’ve been spending way too much time here since 2012 on a variety of devices, including old iPads and sundry phones, and only once have I experienced an ad issue (a really obnoxious autoplay ages ago). So I don’t get that either. But if you’re comfortable with the decision to go ad free, let’s do it. I guess you can always reintroduce ads if fundraising doesn’t work for whatever reason.
Old School
What if we want the ads? Can we pay extra for them?
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
You don’t have to donate via Patreon! You can use PayPal, Venmo or Zelle. And you don’t have to do a recurring donation. You can donate whatever is comfortable whenever it is convenient.
Scout211
The ads don’t bother ME either, but my older iPad is very bothered by the ads, apparently. And how the iPad acts (only on this site, by the way) bothers me a lot. I thought it was only my device until another commenter finally spoke up in frustration. There was a chorus of “me, too” from many commenters.
So please understand that it’s not the ads themselves that are a bother, but how they affect the blog’s performance on many devices. I very much appreciate that this is being addressed. So thank you. ?
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: If you click this link, it will take you to the right place in Patreon for John.
Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: I think I did it.
zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack: I like Patreon because I never have to think about it.
WaterGirl
@Old School: I’ll be right back, I have to leave for a moment to add “Old School” to the SPAM filter. //
edit: Full disclosure, the only word that is in the SPAM filter is the c-word. That was a joke.
WaterGirl
@Scout211:
Yes, yes, yes. Exactly that.
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: Go you!
Suzanne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The one that I get all the time is about completely emptying your bowels every morning. I’m rather jealous of your ad.
Motivated Seller
Have you considered incorporating? That way your name no longer is on the Bill. That way if everything tanks, your own personal assets are protected. Rich people do it all the time, and you bet they retain the ability to call the shots.
BTW I hate the ads, and I’m glad they are gone.
sab
@Motivated Seller: Obviously you are not a lawyer or an accountant,
Corporations are like lobsterpots. Esay to get in, really hard ti get out.
Betty
For the record, the reload issue has been fixed for my Kindle. The blog does deserve contributions. I prefer to do a one-time for several reasons. Hope it works out.
RaflW
I just Paypall’d fifty to John for the ‘reserve fund’ and will now go figure out Patreon.
As I said in the thread downstairs, video ads make me a raving loony (small difference, I know). I suppose I should have an ad blocker, because I’m forever whacking ads on other sites, and on BJ I am resizing my browser to try to make the ad move to a part of the page that is off-screen.
Happy to give monthly to make the nonsense stop. That said, when it was static ads, I used to take sadistic pleasure in clicking on John McCain banners up top here (man that was a while ago) so that some fraction of a cent went from his coffers to BJ each time.
sab
@Suzanne: I had completely missed the absense of those horrible zergnet things (yes I go that rabbithole whenever I see a dog.)
Betty
@WaterGirl: Thanks for the assist. That was easy.
Jackmac
Hate the ads. But I understand BJ can not function without a way to pay the bills. So if you want to introduce a subscription model I’m all for that. BJ is an indispensable read and I’d be happy to pay. Charlie Pierce is also indispensable and I’m happy to fork over subscription money. So maybe that’s a model to consider.
zhena gogolia
@Jackmac: My understanding is this is not going to be a subscription. The hope is that enough of us will voluntarily contribute so that the blog remains open to anyone who wants to read it. But maybe I am missing something.
NotMax
The donations are too close to the house.
:)
Jay C
OK: I’m sure John had absolutely not the least intention of guilting me into contributing, but it happened anyway (sorry, John!) – and now (thanks to WaterGirl’s convenient link), I am now a Patron. And will be as long as there is credit on my card. Yay!
PS: WTF is going on with Steve in JC’s Patreon pic? the annual ass-shaving? (which would explain the (?) boxing gloves??
PPS: And I am one of those who has never had any problems with ads on BJ. Or many problems at all outside the general glitch-outs.
CaseyL
The only time I’ve ever noticed an ad is when someone complained about it. Unless it’s an autoplay (and I think my phone blocks those) I just don’t see them.
Which is great, because I will freely cop to being a member of the murderous intent group, and autoplay ads you can’t turn off do bring out the REDRUM demi-urge.
NotMax
Suppose it bears mentioning, also too, that a trickle of shekels flows in when ordering from Amazon by way of using the B-J link to get to them.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@zhena gogolia: BillinGlendaleCA thanks you for your support.
WaterGirl
@Jackmac: I don’t think we are going to do subscriptions. Just one-time and/or recurring donations from anyone who is so inclined.
@zhena gogolia: You are absolutely correct. No subscriptions.
Alison Rose
You could’ve just used my name, you know.
eclare
@matt: Same here. I just ignore ads, except for that weird one a few years ago that was a huge spider. That one bothered me.
dww44
@WaterGirl: so, if one doesn’t pay a subscription fee, one doesn’t get to read the content? I happen to fall on the side where I cannot pay for add free stuff on all the sites that I read regularly and i don’t mind ads. Like John, I mostly don’t see them. Too, I read the blog mostly on my desk top where ads are never a problem, but I actually don’t have an issue reading on my iPhone either.
In my mind, it’s like cutting the cable and instead streaming just the programming one wants to see… that really costs as much money for heavy tv watchers (and we are in this household) and streaming is just too much work. Seriously, it is.
zhena gogolia
@?BillinGlendaleCA: You’re welcome!
WaterGirl
@dww44:
No, that’s not it at all.
No ads on the site.
EVERYBODY gets to read all the content.
Nothing will be pay-walled.
We just need enough donations to cover the amount the auto-play video ad was bringing in. And the initial safety net fund.
That’s it.
edit: Except that I predict the site will be much better behaved, and anything that is still in issue without the ads can be addressed.
Jude
Aww. It’s so nice to feel seen.
My teens put an adblocker on my computer eons ago, so I’m not annoyed, just feeling guilty. I’m always happy to throw some cash at my daily fix.
jackmac
@WaterGirl: Then I’d be happy to fork over some voluntary cash, but only if Cole keeps producing epic rants. Highly entertaining!
zhena gogolia
@dww44: You’re saying the opposite of what WaterGirl said. You don’t have to pay anything to read the content. It’s going to be supported by those who can afford to/want to contribute voluntarily. Everyone can read it.
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: Well said! More succinct than my response.
Poe Larity
Perhaps we need more data and a look at the signal:noise ratio. We might be better off funding upgrades for the IT Deplorables. Maybe free upgrades forever for a Balloon-Juice Living Trust? I mean, what happens when everyone is in a nursing home and their first generation of Meta Goggles are ten years old and their avatars are blinking?
raven
@zhena gogolia: I think you just have an account and you login.
WaterGirl
@Betty: Whatever works for you works for us. The reload issue was related to the autoplay video ad, which has been gone for about 3 weeks now.
CODave
VERY happy to say that I just set up a recurring Zelle payment. I’ve been reading BJ for years now and have learned so much and laughed so hard. I’m delighted to be able to help out.
Ben Cisco
Cole always comes through. NOBODY does curmedgeon like JC.
NotMax
An elegant interim solution until Tunchcoin gets off the ground.
:) //
zhena gogolia
@raven: Yeah, it took a few gorounds with the password but I think I finally succeeded.
sab
@dww44: No! I asked this in the earlier thread posted by Watergirl. This will not be subscription like TPM. This will be donating patrons and freeriders. (She didn’t like me calling it that.)
My husband never reads comments. He won’t be donating. I spend lots of time in comments, so I should contribute accordingly.
Ruckus can’t really afford it, and his comments are so well thought out and carefully drafted that his comments are a big part of why the rest of us come here. He shouldn’t feel guilty. Sweat equity not cash equity contibution.
So it seems it will be built on trust. Hopefully that is who we are.
oldster
“This will be donating patrons and freeriders. (She didn’t like me calling it that.)”
Well, it does sound kinda bad put that way. I think it’s nicer just to call it “socialism.”
SpaceUnit
Minor point, but I always chafe when some refers to me as a ne’er-do-well. I’m a seldom-do-well and damn proud of it. I look down my nose at the ne’er-do-wells.
JimV
I have a free ad blocker. Other sites tell me, “Turn off your Ad Blocker or we won’t show you what you came to see.” This one does not. So don’t turn off ads on my account. That said, if you need money, just let me know.
Maybe there could be two sites, one with ads and one without? Too much work?
Alison Rose
@dww44: In the comment you are responding to, she literally wrote “No subscriptions.”
WaterGirl
@JimV:
Never! And not because it’s too much work.
No one should be subjected to obnoxious ads – just because they don’t have a bunch of disposable income – while others get it ad-free because they can afford to pay.
All the developers we contacted for the site rebuild struggled with the concept that this blog was not about making money.
Most blogs are about revenue. Balloon Juice is about community.
We are just looking for enough money to pay the bills without having to run ads.
Josie
@Ben Cisco:
So true. It’s why we love him so.
Gracklefeet
Hello, just wanted to say I added a few more bucks to my Patreon support! Glad to be on the team.
Burnspbesq
I guess I need to figure out how to do a recurring donation, since this place is more valuable to me than the several public radio stations I support (I have told KCRW that they would get more from me if they could assure me that none of my money was going to NPR).
Will there be swag? I’ll take the t-shirt, size XXL.
WaterGirl
@Gracklefeet: Thank you!
sab
@Gracklefeet: Can I just say your nym knocked my socks off? I love it.
WaterGirl
@Burnspbesq: No swag!
It seems like Patreon is the simplest way to do that, but all the other options are available, too.
This link is the starting point for John’s Patreon.
Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
zeecube
@Old School: Good one.
WaterGirl
@zeecube: I know, that was really funny.
SpaceUnit
Some of the ads here are sort of amusing because I have no idea what the heck they’re selling. There’s a company (I forget which one) that advertises all kinds of crazy-looking weird contraptions on this blog – just thumbnail pictures with absolutely no description or explanation as to what they are. It could be a part to a nuclear reactor for all I know or the carburetor for a gasoline powered snow blower. Anything. Maybe a flux capacitor.
It’s actually funny. I guess you’re supposed to click on the ad out of sheer curiosity.
WaterGirl
@Burnspbesq: Well, I said no swag, but we are looking to get the Balloon Juice store going again. It’s still in the dark ages at the moment.
Jackie
@WaterGirl: If you haven’t already, maybe put the various donation options on the sidebar? For future reference.
sab
@WaterGirl: If the store opens: Just kidding, but I would like a photo of Oscar the orphan cat. He is pretty and that was a very good photo.
Steeplejack
@Jackie:
“Ways to Support Our Site” is already a fixture on the sidebar.
WaterGirl
@sab: It was! Quite striking and nicely lit.
I have a crush on Groucho. Did you see him in yesterday’s other calendar post.
PJ
I posted this downstairs for Cole, who will probably never read it, but just in case:
If you set up BJ as a 501(c)(3) or (c)(4), you will likely get more in donations (because they will be tax deductible), and you can use ActBlue to collect the donations. Initial paperwork and filing fees for non-profits can be daunting, but in the long run, it may make things easier for you. ETA: And you could avoid Patreon fees.
LongHairedWeirdo
From an IT perspective, “I just don’t understand why we can not … even figure out what’s causing it,” is not at all surprising. It’s rare that you can isolate a significant problem with simple instructions (“do this, do that, do this other thing, bam – there’s the bug”) – in fact, the most common way of identifying that you’ve hit a bug (at least, at my level of troubleshooting!) is to cause the program to generate a stack dump, and verify that the stack matches the known issue.
(What’s a stack dump? Computers do things in stacks. Like, if you want to open this web page in Chrome, Chrome might call a function to display the web page. Well, that function needs the web page contents, and needs to parse them into web page contents. So now we have
ObtainWebPageContents
ParseWebPageContents
DisplayWebPageContents
… and you might find it a bit funny because you realize you’ve asked to parse something you don’t have yet. First we say ‘parse’, then we say ‘obtain’, right? Well, the key issue is, the last thing the browser wants to do is show the page; to do that, it needs it parsed, and it can’t parse until it’s obtained. So the obtain function hands data to the parse function, which hands it to the display function, all in a nice, neat package. If something goes wrong, well, you might find that DisplayWebPageContents, line 285, called ParseWebPageContents, line 73, which called ObtainWebPageContents, which throws an error (or worse: exhibits unexpected, but hard to define, behavior) at line 944. Those functions, with those positions, in that order, should identify a bug. )
Okay, enough Computer Science/IT tutoring. The problem here is, we don’t actually have any idea where the problem is occurring.
Are the web browsers failing, as web browsers? Or are they failing because they are being asked to do something incorrectly (buggy site code, or buggy content)? Or are they actually working, just, you know, given wrong information?
Is the web server failing? OS level? Web server level? Scripting level? Hardware (i.e., driver) level?
To find the cause, you’d need to identify what was sent, to which client, using which OS/browser, and might need a stack dump (and a developer, with a debugger and set of symbols) from multiple programs, just to have a chance.
Anyway: basically, I’m saying “dude, finding this bug was like trying to dunk on Lebron James.” Sure, you might catch him out to lunch for a split second, maybe he’s got a cold, and a really sore set of hamstrings, and sprained his thumb, and you’ll slip one by… more likely, you’ll find yourself frustrated by a (ahem) web of setbacks at each attempt.
Random, crazy thought: for those of us who could come up with, say, $120, is there anyone willing to make that into a $10/month for a year – basically, a donation escrow account? I know that a lot of donation supported organizations *really* like cash flow over single donations, but while I might come up with $120 one time, I can’t afford (in the sense of time, energy, bookkeeping, etc.) recurring donations.
WaterGirl
@PJ:
We are so political that I don’t see how we could be a 501(c)(3). But maybe (c)(4) ?
Albatrossity
I don’t see the ads either; the default adblocker on the Opera browser works very well for me. But I also appreciate this place, so I have now patreoned up, and you’re quite welcome to use it to keep ads off the site for everybody, including those folks running windows 3 on a Kaypro or whatever.
WaterGirl
@Albatrossity: Thank you!
VeniceRiley
ads don’t bother me.
Steeplejack
@LongHairedWeirdo:
You don’t have to do a recurring donation. You can give whatever you feel comfortable with on whatever schedule you prefer. And even that is voluntary.
sab
@WaterGirl: We have an elderly Oscar with my stepson and his fiancee. He is her dog. A horrible elderly dog who hates everyone, bites everyone, but has no teeth. They love him, which is all that matters.
sab
@WaterGirl: I am still trying to get husband to figure out his iphone to forward photos.
rye
@John Cole: loooong time lurker. (I am aware of all internet traditions.) This news is good news. How do I send money? (The PayPal link wasn’t working)
surfk9
@WaterGirl: Thank you for giving us something to do other than carping on yesterdays election!
dopey-o
I’m with Cole on the ads thing. I had months of slight aggravation here, but not the sheer cratering that the video ads caused. Which went away when Watergirl pulled them.
Most of the sites i follow load easily on my coal burning iPad, but BJ is not the only site with page reload crash issues. And I enjoy the obvious right-wing ads. Better the money goes into Cole’s pocket than TFG.
Watergirl, might i suggest you confer with other sites who have threaded this needle? I don’t know if there is a coven of progressive blogmeisters, but i could send you a list of sites that load well on my vintage crap. And a few that regularly crash.
Comrade Colette
What about us openly murderous folks who secretly harbor do-gooder intent? Why are we always left out?
Like many others, I use an ad-blocker and occasionally donate when I notice the sound of the cup being rattled. I’ll happily donate monthly. Or sometimes unhappily, but if it’s set up so I don’t have to do anything I’ll be too lazy to stop it.
Also, anyone here just not to be fucked with is seriously fucking lost.
Steeplejack
@rye:
Look for “Ways to Support Our Site” on the right side of the page, or at the bottom of the page if you’re using the mobile site. You can give via PayPal, Venmo, Zelle or (recurring donation) Patreon.
To donate via PayPal you have to have your own PayPal account. Sign-up details here.
Lymie
I don’t mind ads that don’t autopay, load intrusively into the reading stream, take so f******* long to load that the screen jumps around. There is still a little tiny add on my screen tonight, and it doesn’t bother me at all.
dopey-o
Just saw this today on MacWorld regarding sharing on an iPhone:
https://www.macworld.com/article/544740/how-to-ios-15-siri-share-anything-on-your-screen.html
FlyingToaster
Have you been eavesdropping on my conversations about shooting WarriorTeen’s [redacted] teacher into the Sun?
I’d gone to Patreon back when I had to install an adblocker on the iPad. You weren’t getting revenue on the MacBook, you’re not getting revenue on the iPad, and the least I could do was make up the difference. And from my experience with Wonkette, getting rid of the ads improved every damn thing.
I had posted in WaterGirls thread the tracking from my iPad’s VPN that saw VidCrunch cycling every two minutes; no idea whether it was the mobile device, the crap hotel wifi, some intermediary forcing the issue, or the fact that the universe hates me, personally.
WaterGirl
@sab: Is there something you can bribe him with?
WaterGirl
@rye: You can write a paper check, use PayPal, Venmo, Zelle, or Patreon. Personally, I would use Patreon. In case you want to do that, just click the link to get started.
Become a Balloon Juice Patreo
edit: oops, Steep answered first. Go Steeplejack.
WaterGirl
@dopey-o: The thing is, it’s the autoplay videos that bring in the good money. Static ads bring in very little.
Most people here HATE autoplay video, including me. Not to mention all the restarts it was causing. So that’s out. This seems better, and people are signing up so let’s give this a chance.
WaterGirl
@Lymie: Yeah, the tiny little ads don’t bring in the ad dollars.
WaterGirl
@FlyingToaster: You weren’t the only one mentioning vidcrunch. It was bad.
LongHairedWeirdo
@WaterGirl: Not a lawyer, but “issue advocacy” and “report cards” all seem to be allowable, “non-political” activity. There’s nothing that says you can’t push a political viewpoint (IIRC, and again, IANAL)… it’s that you can’t engage in electioneering.
I would expect that the actions of this website, as an entity, would likely pass muster.
FlyingToaster
@WaterGirl: The problem at the time is that it hadn’t been happening on my MacBook at home (big pipe, big box), and I hadn’t noticed it on my iPad at home. But I sure as hell noticed it at the hotel.
I recall Ken was seeing the same stuff I was on completely different equipment, which might mean the universe’s essential malevolence was irrelevant for once.
Ruckus
John
Ads bother the hell out of me. Ads take my time and no one pays me for that. Ads just fucking annoy me, they always have over my entire life. It might be a family thing. My grandfather had a switch to the speaker on his TV in the 50s that he gave to me when he bought an early color TV, so that he wouldn’t have to listen to ads. Of course we had Cal Worthless, the car dealer. May be it was Worthington, who the hell cares.
Yes I run ad blockers, because I hate ads. Have I said that before?
Anyway thank you for listening to WG. I will chip in a bit.
WaterGirl
So many peeps setting up recurring donations and/or contributing to the safety net is much appreciated!
Just to be crystal clear, though, in case it isn’t already…
Steeplejack
@LongHairedWeirdo:
It sounds like too much trouble and expense just to get an ActBlue thermometer and avoid what are small Patreon fees. And jackals have several other ways to donate.
Percysowner
I run an adblocker, because I hate ads. Once you told me you had a Patreon account I said “Woo Hoo!” and signed up. I love this site and I’m so glad that I can help keep it going. I’m throwing a small donation towards the reserve fund as well. It’s good to have something set aside.
LongHairedWeirdo
@Steeplejack: It might be too much trouble – as I said, I know many organizations like to have a known cash flow for n months, and if Balloon-Juice was one of them, then a method for turning a lump sum into cash flow would help.
(If you’re thinking “you’re looking at accounting esoterica, to help a relatively small website, when such tricks are probably more confusion than help?” – well… okay, *YEAH* if you’re going to put it *THAT* way! That’s how I work – I throw out ideas because it makes me feel like I’m trying to help. And I’m perfectly willing to have a small laugh at myself for overthinking, which I’m doing now.)
Steeplejack
@LongHairedWeirdo:
Patreon is exactly what you’re talking about—a way to even out cash flow by providing a mechanism to handle recurring donations. That’s all they do!
dm
Balloon Juice has (had) ads? I guess my ad-blocker works.
What kills the site for me is Twitter. All the quoted Twitter posts take forever to load on my mobile devices (and I think they’re loading in the background, even if I don’t “expand post on front page”). As a result, I only read Balloon Juice on my computer.
I’ve seen a reload bug — I also see it on more often on DailyKos, and, again, I suspect it’s tied to interactions with quoting Twitter posts.
kfairchild
I just upped my Patreon monthly amount. Thanks!
Seanly
I am so sorely vexed that I can’t use my Compaq Portable to read Balloon Juice…
I am still using Wordstar and play original Rogue on it. Support it!
mvr
John Harrold
@WaterGirl: Is there a preferred method?
mvr
I don’t actually care about the ads either, but I want WaterGirl to be happy since she clearly works her butt off for this site and it is much appreciated. So I kicked in my earlier mentioned small bit.
AnthroBabe
“…do-gooders who secretly harbor murderous intent but know it is not socially acceptable to admit it but who will allude to it whenever possible.”
Ah! A man who knows me! I am willing to pay to access content, I just need to make it as invisible and painless as possible. I do PBS as a recurring monthly contribution and that works nicely.
joel hanes
I’ve been using an ad-blocker since forever.
Nevertheless, I just hit the Donate thing on paypal
Laura Too
I signed up for monthly on Patreon. Thanks for making it so easy!
Steeplejack
@Seanly:
God, I had a Compaq Portable back in the day. Did some serious dBASE II and FoxBase development on it. “Portable”—I’m not sure it would be small enough to be carry-on luggage now! I remember lugging it on plenty of flights to trade shows and whatnot.
Hmm, one website says 8½" x 19½" x 15½".
The Pale Scot
Yes you are. We like our clubhouse. If I have to cut back back on the booze/heroin/meth/benzos aromatic candles I’ll suck it up
PS The ads never bothered me, but not every body can have a new rig and the time to trouble shoot
Steeplejack
@John Harrold:
Not sure what you mean by “preferred method.” If you’re talking about a recurring donation, Patreon is probably the easiest. For a non-recurring donation, you can give via PayPal, Venmo or Zelle.
There are links to all four sites in the “Ways to Support Our Site” section on this page.
LongHairedWeirdo
@dm: Twitter has very funny embedding code. I see tweets (and often twits) in different ways on the site, depending on which machine, with which browser settings, I’m using.
In Firefox, under about:preferences#privacy, if I set tracking to “strict”, Tweets look more like blockquotes (they’re boxed, and I only see text content). And if you go to that page, you’ll notice it even warns you that it will break certain embedded content, at “strict”.
I’m about 90% certain that the tracking protection is one of the issues with viewing Twitter embeds.
NotMax
@Steeplejack
Anyone else remember the Osborne 1?
;)
Gretchen
I don’t see ads either, but I value Balloon Juice and want to contribute if it helps. I have Patreon for 4 other things I value, so I will add Balloon Juice as soon as I figure out how to sign on again. It’s easier to just have Patreon take care of it than remembering to contribute. Of course they want a password I no longer remember, so I will have to go through the password change routine. That’s how much I love you guys!
LongHairedWeirdo
@Steeplejack: (the LongHairedWeirdo walks away, mumbling something about whippersnappers on his lawn, with their fancy tequila (ed: mistaking Patrón for Patreon) and “facespace” and “mytwit”.)
Steeplejack
@NotMax:
I do, in fact, remember the Osborne 1. And one year at COMDEX in Las Vegas I played blackjack at the same table with both Adam Osborne and Bill Gates. None of us was very good or very lucky.
John Harrold
@Steeplejack:
I assume they all take come kind of cut off the top. So I figured there was one that took the least?
Steeplejack
@John Harrold:
All of this was discussed at length in the earlier thread today, if you want excruciating detail.
The short version:
Steeplejack
@Steeplejack:
Better link to earlier thread.
J R in WV
@Albatrossity:
A Kaypro was my first owned computer, and believe me it would never have run Windows of any sort. I still have it in the basement, it cost over $3K…!
Green screen, I forget if it was 40 or 80 chars, was 9 inch CRT. But I could do resume and cover letters on it, and thus got a job, and a career!!
J R in WV
@Steeplejack:
This is incorrect. I have never signed up with Paypal, because the founder is a RWNJ vampire [Peter Andreas Thiel is a German-American billionaire entrepreneur and venture capitalist. A co-founder of PayPal, Palantir Technologies, and Founders Fund…] who pays young people to donate blood to keep him young.
But I have used Paypal to donate to a number of causes, including B-J, although now I am a patron via Patreon.
mac8
I chipped in monthly via Patreon. Just knowing this site is here is worth a monthly contribution, even if I almost exclusively lurk (or sometimes actively avoid the site and all other news depending on my anxiety levels.)
Steeplejack
@J R in WV:
You are correct. You can donate through PayPal as a “guest,” if you are willing to enter your credit-card information for every transaction. Which is still supporting RWNJ vampire Peter Andreas Thiel, as he gets to fondle your money en route to its destination. Glad you moved to Patreon.
PJ
@Steeplejack: Do you work for Patreon? I hope you get a good commission. Patreon takes 5-12% of the money donated – that’s a huge fucking vig. (ActBlue takes nothing.)
PatrickG
This blog has helped keep me sane for the last … wow, thirteen? fourteen years? Since I can’t possibly be that old now, I’ll firmly deny reality there. I almost never comment, but I read almost every thread, and I adore the community here.
I’ve been lucky in life recently, so count me in for half a month, and I’ll up my Patreon from the measly amount I give right now.
PatrickG
Missed the edit window, but really wanted to shout out to WaterGirl, who devotes so much time and energy to keeping this community going.
I hope at least part of my contribution goes to the WaterGirl Snack Fund. :)
WaterGirl
@Gretchen: The first link under support our site in the sidebar takes you directly to john’s patron site for signup.
WaterGirl
@John Harrold: From our perspective, it makes no difference. For recurring donations, some are easier than others on the donor end.
WaterGirl
@dm: Inbelieve the reload bug went away when we stopped the auto play video ad.
Steeplejack
@PJ:
As you must be aware, there are costs associated with setting up a 501(c)(3) nonprofit (which is what ActBlue accepts). Just for starters, the IRS 1023-EZ application is $275. Then you’ve got fees for an attorney and an accountant to get things set up. You need bylaws, a mission statement, a board of directors, etc., etc. And there will be ongoing annual expenses for an accountant, maybe an attorney, to keep track of things and stay in compliance with IRS regs.
Say it’s $2,400 for a low-ball 503 startup (application form and $1,000-1,100 each to an accountant and an attorney). That spreads out to $200 a month for the first year, which, if that was the equivalent of Patreon’s “huge fucking vig” of 12%—the maximum—would mean that it would take $1,667 a month just in ActBlue donations to make it worthwhile. (And this while Cole is asking for $1,000 a month in recurring donations.) That’s a big lift to revel in the ideological purity of sporting the ActBlue thermometer.
It wasn’t my decision for Balloon Juice to sign up with Patreon, and there are other ways to donate—including Zelle, which is absolutely free to both the donor and the recipient. Feel free to use those.
satby
I think this is a mistake.
Steeplejack
@satby:
What’s a mistake? Going ad-free?
Cephalus Max
@WaterGirl: I’d suggest fromt-paging that Patreon link if you haven’t already.
I’m with the crowd that doesn’t really mind the ads themselves, it’s their effect on the rest of the site’s performance. I notice it particularly when trying to load AL’s invaluable Twitter collections.
Steeplejack
@Cephalus Max:
The Patreon link is on every page, under the heading “Ways to Support Our Site.”
Formica
Hurray! I made random guilt donations due to ad blocking over the last… god, whatever, fifteen years or something, but now it’s a monthly Patreon thing.
Let’s make fun of neoliberals on Substack who can’t pull in this kinda scratch!
@WaterGirl: are there plans for some kinda bat signal if recurring monthly donations drop below $100 or something?
WaterGirl
@Formica: We will definitely play it by ear, but I’m hoping to get the information every month from John – for the previous month.
There will always be some attrition, so I plan to keep an eye out for the trends and if we even get in the neighborhood of falling too low, I will put up a post.
My goal is for Cole to never have to directly ask for money again because he hates doing that. So I’ll do it for him.
If the money was for me, I would hate it too, but I have no problem asking for money for the site or for political fundraising. :-
I will also watch the site traffic – I think we lost some people due to frustration with the video ads and other ads, so hopefully they will come back when word gets out. We will soon find out whether that’s true or not!
Central Planning
@WaterGirl: How much does it cost to run BJ? Like $1,000 per month or $10,000? I don’t care about the exact cost, just trying to get a rough estimate.
Thanks!
Central Planning
@Central Planning: Nevermind, I saw it on the other thread.
WaterGirl
@Central Planning: Closer to 1,000, and that’s with me and all the front-pagers being free.
KrackenJack
@mvr: Short-selling futures on a ETF made up of web ad NFTs?
Mary G.
I don’t see ads either, but one thing I hate is having to read all the bitching about them that sporadically erupts here. So I’m happy to be rid of them.
This comment lost its G somehow; it’s not a new Mary but just old regular Mary G. It doesn’t matter anyway.
WaterGirl
@Mary G.: I added your G. back in on this comment, but I think you’ll have to add it back in before you comment next.