Seems like a good time to share this:
Good morning! Now and then I offer words of encouragement to people who fight depression and anxiety. Today I want to offer words of encouragement to their friends and loved ones who want to help them.
I want to reassure you that you can make a difference.
/1
— NotJFKJrHat (@Popehat) October 28, 2021
/2 Depression and anxiety are often cyclical; there are good times and bad times. It’s tough to know that someone you care about is having a bad time; it’s tough to know how you can help. Sometimes you feel helpless to do anything.
You’re not helpless.
/3 Recently three people in my life –family and friends — saw potentially stressful things going on (from Facebook or elsewhere) and just . . . checked in. Asked how I was. How I was dealing with it. If I needed anything. How I was handling it.
It made a difference.
/4 One very difficult element of serious anxiety and depression is a feeling of isolation and loneliness — that nobody else gets how you feel, that you’re utterly alone in misery. You’re not, of course, but depression lies.
Checking in helps with that.
/5 The simple act of checking in, with a light touch, helps pierce that feeling of isolation. It’s saying “I saw you were dealing with this, and I thought of you, and wondered how you were handling it. I remember you. I know what you’re fighting and I’m with you.”
/6 Use a light touch though. Not constantly. pic.twitter.com/77SUiLN3v3
— NotJFKJrHat (@Popehat) October 28, 2021
/7 This small thing can make a difference in the lives of people you care about, and support them in fighting depression and anxiety. I’m grateful for friends and family like that. You can be one.
/end
/8 /Addendum Sorry, that wasn’t the end after all. Some people have asked “how can I check in with a loved one without being overbearing and causing more stress?” It’s a fair question. Talking about how you feel can be painful during depression and anxiety….
/9 Here’s what works for me. I have a deal with loved ones: they can ask me, any time, how I am, 1 to 10, 10 being extreme crisis. And, even if I don’t want to talk, I give a number. Even checking in like that helps me, and it helps them by reassuring them about how I am.
/10 It’s helpful in that it encourages reflection and self-awareness without being overwhelming or a further stressor. Your mileage may vary.
debbie
In the event politics are at the root of your depression, it was reported on my local NPR station that the candidates most loudly pimping CRT all lost their elections yesterday. For me, this is a small but bright ray of sunshine. ?
ruemara
It’s good advice, but to do it, you kinda need a support network of people.
zhena gogolia
@ruemara: Do we count?
gene108
Because it’s usually pointless.
Getting someone, no matter how well meaning, to disengage from what’s most on their mind to engage with your emotional crisis is next to impossible. Most people aren’t equipped to change gears to deal with others baggage.
MagdaInBlack
Thank you for this, AL. I struggle with depression and this last year plus has been an extra struggle with the black hole.
Steeplejack
That was a good thread by @Popehat. Thanks for featuring it, Anne Laurie.
MattF
Motivated me to go call an old friend…
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@debbie:
A bright shiny spot in my small part of the world as well. The anti-masker wolf-in-sheep’s clothing I’ve talked about here who was running for a seat on my local school board lost last night
UncleEbeneezer
@debbie: Was there a number breakdown? This is good news I’d like to share with others.
sab
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Yay for you. There have been lots of school board yay results in Ohio today.
sab
@gene108: I think in my family it helps for them to know you care. You aren’t a psychologist and probably cannot and shouldn’t try to talk them through things, but they need to be gently reminded that they have people who love them and who are concerned.
SiubhanDuinne
I have intermittent bouts of depression. Not crippling, just profoundly anti-motivating. There are a few people who check in on me now and then, and there are others I like to call to make sure they’re doing okay. And — I’ve said before — this place can be a godsend when you need support.
Thanks so much for posting this thread, AL.
Mel
@ruemara: I agree. For people dealing with some or all of the things that often go hand in hand with depression and/or anxiety (things like chronic illness, financial hardship, job loss, housing insecurity, etc.), and with depression or anxiety on their own, the very circumstances of their struggles can cause their social networks to shrink or collapse.
Having people reach out can make a real difference, but not everybody has a social support system strong enough to survive major challenges. During stressful times, especially when the situation, illness, or circumstance is a long-lasting one, many people simply drop out of a person’s life. It’s not easy to see someone hurting, and it’s not always easy to adjust the roles in a relationship when one person’s circumstances change what they are able to contribute emotionally, psychologically, or physically. That doesn’t make the loss or the loneliness any easier for the person struggling, but speaking as a person who has lived for 20 years with a serious, often debilitating illness, I know that most of the people I have lost had no malicious intent behind their leaving. It’s just really, awfully hard for everybody, all around.
That being said, if you are one of the wonderful people who are there for your loved ones when they are experiencing hard times, or one of the people who stick around even when it’s clear that there won’t be a quick or simple resolution to what your loved one is experiencing , know that you are a hero in my eyes, and that your words, your friendship, your genuine interest, matter more to that person in your life than you know.
SiubhanDuinne
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
That’s very good news! Thank you for sharing it.
Fair Economist
I have been pretty anxious the last few days and haven’t been sleeping well at all. Mostly politics, some anxiety about personal issues (not big ones, actually, rather irrational). I have had sleeping issues for decades so don’t fret, I’ll survive. Must say I appreciate having this group to vent!
Martin
@zhena gogolia: Yes.
I’ve always struggled with anxiety but the last 5-6 years have been particularly bad – variety of reasons. It’s been up and down, today not too bad.
My support network isn’t huge, mainly because I’m bad at letting people in, but this place is part of it. Watergirl in particular is very good at giving me a lift, even when she has no idea that I need it.
Mel
@Steeplejack: Seconded!
sab
@Martin: Second you on Watergirl.
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
Special dispatch for you.
Cacti
Speaking as a sufferer of MDD, I can say that the above is true. People can love you, and can want to help, but talking to lay people will often just leave you feeling worse.
The average person is not equipped to deal with the depths of someone’s clinical depression, and when you tell them about it, it often ends up a case of YOU having to comfort THEM, that you’re in a dark place emotionally.
zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack: I saw that but haven’t been able to watch it. Some of his things are on subjects that I can’t be asked to laugh about. :(
zhena gogolia
@Mel: Thirded.
sab
@Cacti: Doesn’t it help to just check in and let them know you are thinking of them and care? Absolutely nothing beyond that since we mostly are not trained psychologists or psychiatrists.
AJ
@ruemara: Very good point. I hope you have some. I know internet-friends are not the same but to you and anyone else here who lives with this as I do, I’m around to listen.
debit
I have found that my issues with depression and rage were not as severe once I stopped visiting twitter and political blogs (hence my not being around here very much). I know that there’s more to depression than current events, but, when you have an endless stream of “This is the worst thing ever!” followed by “No, THIS is the worst thing ever!” and the worst things just keep getting worse no matter how much you protest, donate, vote, whatever…
It’s good to stay engaged. It’s good to be passionate. But it’s okay to step back and disengage from time to time.
Alce _e_ardillo
I also have struggled with depression and anxiety through most of my adult life, with seasonal variations, getting more depressed around the [email protected]#$ holidays,and letting up in the spring and summer. Medications can help, as can therapy, diet and exercise. But it will never go away entirely, and I’m sure I will be dealing with it for the rest of my life.
There is a difference between “checking in”, which I think shows you care, and butting in with unsolicited advice, or saying “get over it” or ” it’s all in your head”…well, duh!
I am running out of profound things to say, so I’ll just say we have to take care of each other.
sab
@debit: I am so glad to see you lurking.
sab
@Alce _e_ardillo: I think that “checking in” versus more is an important distinction. Thanks.
debbie
@UncleEbeneezer:
Okay, there’s this. It’s for Ohio, but what really cheered up was that the Ohio GOP Chair Jane Timken bankrolled a bunch of races and lost:
Nothing’s a sure thing, but I think this shows that CRT isn’t the new Willie Horton. I think there’s a really good chance the GOP will overplay this and it will mean nothing in 2022.
ruemara
@zhena gogolia: Honestly? Everyone you have willing to give you a second thought counts. But, the necessary human presence is the one thing your distanced friends cannot give you.
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
Point taken! ?
debit
@sab: Thank you! That actually made me a little teary.
JPL
@debbie: Thank you for that!
WaterGirl
@Martin: What a nice thing to say, Martin. That really touches my heart. thank you
E.
I am really coming around to the Mark Fisher hypothesis that depression and sociopathy are both common results of the sort of capitalism we now have. The term “late capitalism” has been thrown around a lot here lately but always as just a stand in for “capitalism.”
Today’s capitalism has transformed or is well along the way to transforming nearly 100 percent of our lives into transactions that can be won or lost. Courage for example is less a thing a person develops and more a thing you can buy. Things that are not commodities but are crucial to a meaningful life are not championed, defended, and in more and more cases are not even available. There are fewer people in public spaces, there are fewer places to get away from advertising, there are fewer and fewer ways to enjoy life without shopping for it.
I own a business that has very, very little space to operate in today’s market. It’s a bakery. We make everything from scratch. Bread, croissants, pastry cream, custards, jams, cookies, scones, kouign amman, bagels, all of it made by hand by us, every day. The food is gorgeous. But Costco can sell you a croissant for less money than mine cost in materials alone — and believe me, the main cost of a croissant is labor. The place down the street sells full breakfasts that come in vacuum packs — they don’t have an oven or a grill but you can get eggs, sausage, and hashbrowns, all microwaved, shipped to them in plastic. They don’t even have to order — their cash register tells the supplier what to ship, when. Their business is booming.
I think what we are seeing politically is a response to this, to fears about a changing climate, and looming fears about resource scarcity. I made it through Covid, barely, but looking ahead and seeing how hard it is to make it and how it hasn’t been getting easier, yes, I have deep anxiety and depression and it’s not something that is going to go away with more yoga and positive thinking.
When I look at the natural world I see a corpse. The oceans are a corpse. The arctic is a corpse. Our politics are vicious and cruel and are about to devour the last scraps. I expect Alito to privatize public lands in my lifetime. And all of it is driven by this capitalist organ that is devouring us.
People say it’s the best way to manage our societies. I say it is provably annihilating the earth we live on. I wish I saw a way out.
“It is easier to imagine the end of the world than to imagine the end of capitalism.” Frederic Jameson.
CarolPW
@ruemara: My sister in Sacramento was ready to take you to your swearing in if you had needed it, and she would have bought your fucking lunch afterwards too. You have a very deep bench of supporters here, but you would need to let us know – and that is probably the part that doesn’t work so well on a blog. I’m so sorry.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
Hokey Smokes, Bullwinkle!
Mel
@Cacti: This.
Most people have an innate desire to want to “fix the situation”, and when they can’t, they don’t know how to process what’s going on, and they can get frustrated / sad/ upset/ irritated.
I utterly dread it when well meaning people start tossing out “solutions” (“have you tried the Paleo diet? My sister’s friend’s neighbor swears it cured her MS!! Why won’t you try it???” “If you start journaling, you’ll feel less depressed!! Why haven’t you used that journal I bought you?!?”). I’m convinced that it’s a frantic reaction to their underlying desire to help, and to their sense of helplessness at not being able to help, but it damn sure piles on the stress to already unbearably stressful circumstances.
Don’t try to “fix” me or “heal” me. Leave that to the doctors. Just sit with me for a minute, and hold my hand so that I know that I still matter, so that I know that someone still sees who I really am inside, even if I’m a little or a lot broken.
WaterGirl
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: Is it wrong that my first though was “who the hell is that?”
sab
@debit: That makes me teary.
debbie
@JPL:
And even better, her most recent Tweet shows she didn’t get a clue about her failed efforts.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@WaterGirl: Not at all. I don’t expect everyone to know Bullwinkle.
sab
@debbie: I desperately hope she is clueless. I think she is. And she was the person I was most afraid of. I was hoping her gender held her back ( me being a woman). Hopefully her life in the bubble will do that better.
ruemara
@CarolPW: That’s really sweet. I appreciate that.
debbie
@sab:
Why is she still bringing up McAuliffe? That was over yesterday. She’s no different than TFG who’s still fighting 2016, let alone 2020.
tom
Ken White (@popehat) has been open about his struggles with depression on twitter and his blog, and I appreciate his honesty and willingness to talk about, especially since a very public figure like him will attract the worst kind of abuse from the worst kind of people.
I also get a kick out of his rotating nyms.
sab
@debbie: I am quite ferocious on public schools. My dad went to elite schools and was desperately unhappy. My mom went to public schools until her parents blew all their savings to get her into private school to apply to college. She got into Smith based on the chemistry she learned in public school, not the crap she learned in two years of indifferent girls elite private school. I froth at the mouth about this. She though she got in because of the private school and actually she got in despite the private school.
bluegirlfromwyo
Thank you, AL, for this thread, and thank you, jackals, for sharing your stories and showing support. My life has been shaped by periodic depression and, like others have said, there’s nothing better than knowing you’re not alone.
Eolirin
@Cacti: Even when they are capable of it, (usually because they’ve had similar issues themselves and are just in a better place than you at that moment) it doesn’t actually help make you feel better right then, most of the time.
This stuff is sticky and it even if you do all the “right” things and have other people do all the most helpful things, it doesn’t necessarily make much of a difference to the felt experience in that moment. Often makes the moment leave a little faster, but that matters more later, when it happens. The moment you’re living it in is often just gonna suck period. Most of the work is learning to be okay with that and recognizing that it isn’t going to last forever while you’re experiencing it.
CarolPW
@ruemara: I should have let you know at the time you had options. The post reminds us we need to offer first, and not wait for the ask.
Eolirin
@Eolirin:
@Mel: Which is why this is all you can do the vast majority of the time. And yeah, I really wish more people got that.
Ohio Mom
@debbie: My Ohio suburban school district is not on the list of places Jane Timken butt her nose into but there was definitely outside money supporting the two Republican men running. Their campaign literature was just too slick. Fortunately, they lost (hehehe).
Then there was the mailer that arrived last week from “American Policies Project PAC” in Arlington, Virginia, attacking the most openly progressive candidate and “her radical agenda” and “extremist policies,” including “welcoming critical race style indoctrination in our classrooms.”
On both sides of the mailer, a photo of her face caked with dirt. She’s Jewish, hear that dog whistle?
Anyway, she won (woot, woot!). She’s fabulously qualified, an attorney with two special needs kids who has made her name as a disability advocate. Our district has always had a very strong special ed program (that’s why we bought this house) and it’s heartening to know she will be supporting it from her spot on the board.
That’s what I’m cheering myself up with.
sab
Why I love this site. We have had major proplems in our lives. This isn’t book of faces so I don’t discuss much here. I discuss the dogs who can’t read and don’t care.
But blog advice dropping out of nowhere helps a lot. And in this blog that happens a lot. It did today.
Cacti
@sab: Yes. That does help.
When someone’s in a bad place with MDD, the thoughts of “would anyone really miss me if I was gone” are frequent. Just calling to say hello can help a lot.
frosty
Deleted
Ohio Mom
On the subject of depression, I have danced with it my whole life. My fourth grade teacher could not understand why I occasionally just burst into tears (must have been a particularly tough year for me, I didn’t cry in any other grade).
I highly recommend medication. It doesn’t solve everything but it makes coping more possible.
More and more it seems to me that the principle task of adulthood is managing one’s feelings. Everything else, all those things that young people call “adulting” — balancing the checkbook, filing taxes, reading the fine print, and so on — they are merely chores. The big task is keeping yourself in an even keel when so much of life is a storm.
dopey-o
If there were a way to think / eat / exercise your way out of depression, it would be common knowledge by now. People with depression have been desperately tried to find a solution for centuries. Nothing worked until medical science stepped in with chemicals.
Presently dealing with an old friend with long-term depression. I know exactly how he feels, and it’s a struggle to deal with someone who’s withdrawn and uncommunicative. After emails and texts go unanswered, I worry about the inevitable. But I’m 2,000 miles away and can’t just go by for a welfare check.
So I keep emailing.
sab
It would have been a weird fluke if McAulifffe won. I do feel sorry for Virginians, but this was expecteable. Don’t freak out. I live in Ohio, and we keep battling and sometimes win. We are winning on school boards right now.
Eolirin
@Ohio Mom: Unfortunately meds don’t work for all of us. I think medication resistant depression is about 30% of the diagnosed population? It really sucks. But yeah, can absolutely be very helpful for the people they work for.
Ohio Mom
@dopey-o: It’s not just depression that brings out the not-so-helpful comments, it’s any condition with a medical diagnosis.
The things people have told me about breast cancer and autism, oh god.
raven
@Cacti: maybe you can just attack people with some bullshit and you’ll feel better.
sab
@Cacti: That is what I thought. We cannot competently counsel, but we can let them know that we love them. In my family there are people I dearly love who fight daily with depression. I try to let them know that I would be heartbroken if they died. Can’t advise them, but they need to weigh that in their scale. Often they don’t even think we care.
Darkrose
I have to stop and remind myself that it’s okay not not be okay. My existing depression and anxiety kicked into high gear in May of 2020 when it became clear that the pandemic shutdowns were not going to be done by the summer. It ramped up again in the run-up to the election, with the vaccine on the horizon, but instead of going back to manageable levels, it kept increasing, to the point where I was still constantly on edge and unable to sleep even before January 6. Since then, I feel like I haven’t been able to relax and calm down. I’ve managed to hang on because work is actually going pretty well, but it takes very little to disrupt my equilibrium; the nightmare of late August with my landlord that resulted in Telesilla breaking her foot and ankle have left me with zero emotional and mental reserves. I’m dreading my upcoming job search and possibly needing to move as well. Mostly, though, I’m tired of feeling like this.
Elizabelle
AP has called Phil Murphy for governor of Connecticut. Whew.
Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: New Jersey?
Elizabelle
@Darkrose: Sending you a hug. You are living through tribulations. And surviving them. Praise yourself for that.
Elizabelle
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh. Yeah. That’s the 90 minutes of sleep talking.
Nevermind ….
Eolirin
@Elizabelle: As a New Yorker, I’m happy to pretend New Jersey doesn’t exist except as some sort of weird slum of NYC, but, I think you meant that yeah?
Elizabelle
@Eolirin: Um, it’s one of the midatlantic states??? My bad.
Actually knew it was Jersey. Think I get Governor Phil Murphy and Senator Chris Murphy of CT mixed up. Alas.
Anyway, may they both continue brilliant political careers, and to rack up wins. (Maybe slightly less nerve-racking, Phil. But a win is a win, and we will gratefully take it.)
Eolirin
@Elizabelle: Yeah no worries :) Slagging on NJ is a NY pastime though, couldn’t pass it up
Elizabelle
@Eolirin: NJ is kind of the Rodney Dangerfield of states, is it not?
Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: Dangerfield was funny. Jersey just smells that way
Eolirin
@Elizabelle: No respect? Yeah, absolutely.
Cacti
@raven: How ’bout a Vietnam story, gramps?
Eolirin
@Omnes Omnibus: ?
Soprano2
@Ohio Mom: And back problems! Everyone is an expert on that, or thinks they are
sab
@Ohio Mom: So so true.
sab
@Ohio Mom: Had lunch with my step-daughter today. She is often full of strong opinions with no facts. Also she is a terible pet mom. Borderline abusive and always negligent.
Hiwever, she is an amazing special needs mom. I did not see that coming. We had a big argument about where they are on the autism spectrum. She stomped me into the floor. I am so battered I cannot accurateely reproduce her argument but she was right.
But her winning arguments with her step mom doesn’t make her a good parent. She just is. I am saying her skeptical stepmom thinks she is a good mom.
ruemara
@CarolPW: I have serious abandonment issues as well as neglect issues. I never ask, so don’t take it personally.
Kay
@Ohio Mom:
I’m collecting these. There’s also “critical race theory inspired” and “critical race theory praxis”.
Ohio Mom
@sab: Step-relationships can be so fraught! Your granddaughter needs both of you, it’s good you can hash things out.
Here is an article I really like on just what “autism spectrum” means: https://neuroclastic.com/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/
For me, I am learning to say Ohio Son has “moderate support needs” rather than he’s “on the higher functioning side.” Keeping up with the jargon is never-ending.
Ohio Mom
@Kay: oooh, “praxis.” That’s a ten dollar word!
At first, I threw that mailer away in disgust but then I fished it out of the recycling bin in case I ever begin to doubt how awful it is. Now I have to figure out where to store it.
On the subject of New Jersey, growing up in New York City I heard the adults in my family make many disparaging remarks about the “Garbage State.” When my grandfather died and was buried in the big Jewish Cemetary across the river, I wondered why we were leaving someone we had loved dearly in that wretched place.
Ruckus
@ruemara:
I worked as a counselor at a mental health clinic for 4 yrs.
We listened more than anything else. Sometimes we did have to ask questions but that was more because we didn’t know the people and often were on the phone. But in person counseling was a bit different because they expected answers and the point is they usually know the answer, they just don’t like the answer or know how to get there. But listening is really the point.
Steeplejack
@Kay:
Ooh, “critical race theory praxis”—that’s a nice one. Although aren’t you automatically some sort of commie socialist—or, worse, a serious chess player—if you use words like praxis? Now I’m eagerly waiting for “critical race theory hegemony.”
raven
@Cacti: Feel better you weakling?
S. Cerevisiae
I take meds for depression and anxiety, I went through a few therapists until I found one who worked for me. I am in a far better place now than I was a few years ago but it’s a struggle.
CarolPW
@ruemara: I don’t take it personally, but it makes me cry. If you ever want to visit eastern Washington state, come stay with me, cats and all.
Madeleine
ruemara—there was a time when I remember you commenting more. I miss hearing from you.
Someone in an earlier comment linked to @runforsomething. I don’t remember which comment (sorry). They’ve had a lot of wins and it feels great to scroll through all the announcements.
Edit: I generally have a background level of anxiety/depression that I’m quite good at hiding from myself, though perhaps not as good at it lately.
Oops. @runforsomething is the next post.
JGreen
Hello, all. I’m a lurker and somewhat late to the thread, but the topic applies to me personally and I couldn’t stay away.
I’ve been having trouble with anxiety and depression ever since the shutdown started in March 2020 (I’m in the SF Bay Area) and it just doesn’t look like it will ever end, I don’t have any insight that hasn’t been mentioned already, but I’ve also had friends tell me to do things (see someone, get meds, etc.) when all I want is for them to listen to me complain about it (over and over again). I realize they care and want to help, but I know that I just want (unrealistically) to impose on them. A couple are willing to listen to me, but I want to be careful not to drive them away. It’s hard; every day is hard and I don’t always feel like trying. It’s as awful as others have been saying here.
J R in WV
@Alce _e_ardillo:
Here’s some unasked for advice… sounds like you may have a touch of Seasonal Affective Disorder, caused by a lack of bright sunshine over the late fall and winter, which is treated by using a special bright lamp. We got one for IIRC something like $50 from Amazon, using the Amazon link on the BJ front page. It seems to help Wife with her winter grouch.
It casts a broad bright light onto your face and body, not so bright as to strain your eyes, and of a broad spectrum to match sunlight. Sits on the kitchen table where wife geeks out on the internet and watches TV. 15 watts or so IIRC.
Ohio Mom
@JGreen: Think of what you have as a paper cut that is now a big pus-filled mess.
The initial lockdown blues were the paper cut, a common and self-limiting condition — for most people.
But for you, for some reason, an infection took off in the little slit. Now you need to go to the doctor and get it treated. Maybe the doc will lance it, most probably send you home with a course of antibiotics.
So it is with your “blues.” If you have a primary care doctor, that is where you should start. PCPs prescribe antidepressants all the time (mine does for me) and if they think you need more help than that, they will send you to a specialist.
Don’t have a primary care physician? Ask your friends for recommendations, and when you call for an appointment explain that you are in distress and need an appointment as soon as possible.
The tricky thing about depression is that it makes you lethargic and apathetic, and getting help requires a little energy. If you can’t do it for yourself, do it for your long-suffering friends. Let them know you did it for them, I think they will be very appreciative.
Finally, Welcome out of lurking! Please hang around and keep us posted.