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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Sunday Afternoon Open Thread: Goldbricking NFTs

Sunday Afternoon Open Thread: Goldbricking NFTs

by Anne Laurie|  November 21, 20213:06 pm| 126 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Excellent Links, Open Threads, Tech News and Issues, Ever Get The Feeling You've Been Cheated?

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Just moved 3 cans of Peace Iced Tea from the top to the middle rack in my fridge. I sold $2.99 worth of beverages today. Never stop grinding

— Baseball Boy #1 (@LizRummy) October 14, 2021

But it’s not just self-delusion (or money laundering) — there’s also scamming the (other) marks! Best explanation of this I’ve seen so far:

How to scam people with NTFS and how the IRS is going to ruin it: a beginners guide

— foone (@Foone) November 8, 2021

Extracts from the longer thread:

Step 1: you draw or have an algorithm create 100 images. You pay to have these coolminted into NTFS. They are, of course, not very valuable and you’d be unlikely to make money selling them. What a shame.

Step 2: you take out a loan and go to Bob. You say “Can you buy this NTFS for me? You don’t need to pay for it, I’m gonna hand you 5100$ and you just turn it into ethernet points and buy it. It’s worth 5000$ so I’ll let you keep the extra 100$”

Bob, of course, agrees.

So Bob buys your NTFS and you get 5000$ back (minus some overhead) , which you turn back into cash, which is of course outside of the EthernetPoints ecosystem.

You now go to Alice, and make her the same offer, but on a different NTFS in your batch. You up it to 6000$ this time. She buys it, you get the money, and all that was lost was some overhead fees and some payment to Alice to do this.

So after doing this for a while, you approach Mark and say “hey look, I’m making these NTFS things and I’ve only got one left. If you look at how much they’ve sold for, it’s 5000-10000$, and prices are going up. You can resell them anytime to get your money back.”

But for you, I’ll give you a discount. You can have this mspaint squiggle for only 4000$. A bargain!

Mark isn’t sure. This doesn’t look like something that’s valuable.

But you can point mark at the transaction history, perfectly preserved in the borkchan: you NTFSes have sold for 5000$ each, 10000$ each, resold for even more!

You’ve got a “market cap” of 5 million dollars!

Because what the borkchan doesn’t know (and can’t know) , is that you used the same money over and over again to purchase EthernetPoints, transfer it around, then cash it back out…

This is an old type of scam, usually called a “gold brick scam”, where the mark is sold something they think is valuable, but turns out not to be. Often you have someone pretending to be an expert, who helps convince the mark that it’s valuable…

And here is how the IRS is going to hopefully stop this:
They’re going to require reporting of these transactions. They’re going to de-anonymize the big cash transactions, and what’s worse, they’re going to consider these things investments and tax you on them.

And now, you have a bunch of worthless NTFS that you were going to scam people with, and the IRS is going to say “because that’s something you could convert into cash, it’s a taxable investment. And clearly it’s worth 10,000$ as you say, because we can see the transactions too”

And you’re going to pay taxes on it like it’s actually worth the inflated amount you were claiming it was worth.

And this is going to destroy the profit potential in this scam, at least in the US. And while you could try to structure it so that all your transactions happen outside the US, I wouldn’t try it. The IRS can see all of them, they’re public on the borkchan…

And as good as it is that the NTFS scam is hopefully about to mostly die, I don’t think the new IRS rules will come into effect until 2023, so expect the NTFS shills to get fever pitched in the coming months.

— foone (@Foone) November 8, 2021

It’s a pig in a poke scam except instead of a cat, you’re getting asbestos.
And you will not be entitled to compensation when you get mesothelioma.

— foone (@Foone) November 8, 2021

BTW, I am intentionally misspelling the name of the non tungable fokens. There are bots and people who keyword search, and I also want to pay them all due respect, specifically, none.

— foone (@Foone) November 8, 2021

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126Comments

  1. 1.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 21, 2021 at 3:15 pm

    Cryptobros: crypto is real money! More real than fiat money! It’s moneyyyy, just like gold

    IRS: we agree

    Cryptobros: fascism!

  2. 2.

    Kent

    November 21, 2021 at 3:15 pm

    I was mystified when I heard about folks making big money by earning and selling “gold” tokens and whatnot within video games.  But this takes it to a whole new level.

    I use the rule of poker when looking at these sorts of things.  “If you don’t know who the mark is, then it’s you.”

  3. 3.

    topclimber

    November 21, 2021 at 3:15 pm

    Reserved for Baud.​
     

    ETA: He SHALL Return.

  4. 4.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 21, 2021 at 3:18 pm

    @Kent: the game thing is no more mystifying than buying the newest figurines for a wargame even though you could just use pennies or colored pebbles.

  5. 5.

    Ruckus

    November 21, 2021 at 3:19 pm

    @Kent:

    The newer result of crypto is: “If you think the mark is someone else, you are wrong, it’s still you.”

  6. 6.

    jackmac

    November 21, 2021 at 3:20 pm

    I don’t get NFTs or anything crypto. But I’m older and ignorant. (And at least my pocket hasn’t been picked by any bro types pushing this crap).

  7. 7.

    Martin

    November 21, 2021 at 3:21 pm

    Pleased to see VP and First Gentleman affixing a mezuzah. Not please to see how First Gentleman holds a hammer. My dude, there’s a reason the hammer has a handle that long. Please think of the children who see you as role models and look to emulate. #don’tchokeuponahammer

  8. 8.

    Kent

    November 21, 2021 at 3:22 pm

    If I was younger and smarter, I would have created a new digital currency called the “Rittenhouse” and made a couple million dollars on the MAGA dipshits before disappearing.

  9. 9.

    Chetan Murthy

    November 21, 2021 at 3:24 pm

    @topclimber:

    ETA: He SHALL Return.

    Some say he never even went on vacation!  Think about it!  [gif of eddie murphy tapping his temple with forefinger]

  10. 10.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2021 at 3:24 pm

    Anne Laurie, I had an Authors in Our Midst post schedule for 3, but it missed the schedule and I didn’t catch it until 3:21.  So I went ahead and posted it because I had prearranged the time with the author.

    I think our posts can happily sit side-by-side.

  11. 11.

    Just Chuck

    November 21, 2021 at 3:25 pm

    … NTFS scam …

     

    BTW, I am intentionally misspelling the name of the non tungable fokens

     

    I was wondering what the Windows filesystem had to do with it…

  12. 12.

    Chetan Murthy

    November 21, 2021 at 3:26 pm

    @Just Chuck: They know what they did!

  13. 13.

    topclimber

    November 21, 2021 at 3:27 pm

    I only have experience with NFTS.

    No Funds To Spend.

  14. 14.

    Just Chuck

    November 21, 2021 at 3:27 pm

    Also too: link to thread reader using that magical new technology of fitting more than 240 fucking characters in a box.

  15. 15.

    Anne Laurie

    November 21, 2021 at 3:28 pm

    @WaterGirl: Absolutely — sorry I missed your scheduled post!

  16. 16.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2021 at 3:35 pm

    @Anne Laurie: That’s okay, I missed it, too!  Which is way worse. :-)

  17. 17.

    NotMax

    November 21, 2021 at 3:45 pm

    Bitcoins are an ether ore proposition.

    //

  18. 18.

    Just Chuck

    November 21, 2021 at 3:47 pm

    @NotMax: Do that again and I’ll blockchain you to the wall and funge your tokens up good.

  19. 19.

    John Revolta

    November 21, 2021 at 3:50 pm

    @topclimber: This is a condition that my father used to refer to as Mafunzalo.

  20. 20.

    Tom Levenson

    November 21, 2021 at 3:53 pm

    @Just Chuck: 

    seconded.

  21. 21.

    Fair Economist

    November 21, 2021 at 3:57 pm

    A very lucid explanation of why pure NTFs are garbage. They *could* be useful as proof of ownership of some real-world or even game-world thing; certificate of authenticity for an item, tracking a degree, use of some game-world item. But only a small fraction of the independent value of the tracked item. A bare NTFs (including NTFs of something freely copiable, like those bad cartoons) is worth a small fraction of nothing, which is to say: Nothing.

  22. 22.

    Booger

    November 21, 2021 at 4:09 pm

    @NotMax: I am so stealing this. Can I pay you in Nasty Fungus toads?

  23. 23.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 21, 2021 at 4:11 pm

    Step 2: you take out a loan and go to Bob. You say “Can you buy this NTFS for me? You don’t need to pay for it, I’m gonna hand you 5100$ and you just turn it into ethernet points and buy it. It’s worth 5000$ so I’ll let you keep the extra 100$”

    This immediately reminded me of the various types of scams using Western Union that I’ve been trained on

  24. 24.

    germy

    November 21, 2021 at 4:13 pm

    I am often asked if I will “return to cryptocurrency” or begin regularly sharing my thoughts on the topic again. My answer is a wholehearted “no”, but to avoid repeating myself I figure it might be worthwhile briefly explaining why here…

    — Jackson Palmer (@ummjackson) July 14, 2021

    After years of studying it, I believe that cryptocurrency is an inherently right-wing, hyper-capitalistic technology built primarily to amplify the wealth of its proponents through a combination of tax avoidance, diminished regulatory oversight and artificially enforced scarcity.

    — Jackson Palmer (@ummjackson) July 14, 2021

    Despite claims of “decentralization”, the cryptocurrency industry is controlled by a powerful cartel of wealthy figures who, with time, have evolved to incorporate many of the same institutions tied to the existing centralized financial system they supposedly set out to replace.

    — Jackson Palmer (@ummjackson) July 14, 2021

  25. 25.

    MattF

    November 21, 2021 at 4:20 pm

    I saw a thread predicting that ‘Tether’ was the crypto ‘innovation’ that would make the whole game collapse. It was described as ‘quilted out of red flags’.

  26. 26.

    Ksmiami

    November 21, 2021 at 4:21 pm

    @jackmac: like trading turds

  27. 27.

    Fair Economist

    November 21, 2021 at 4:28 pm

    @germy: So, Beanie Babies for neofascists?

    I’m really curious about the money flows into and out of crypto – the real effects on the world. Most of the trading is just swapping one crypto asset for another – digital self-pleasuring as far as the real world is concerned. Unfortunately there seem to be no honest statistics.

  28. 28.

    Original Lee

    November 21, 2021 at 4:29 pm

    @NotMax: Stealing this most excellent pun.

  29. 29.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 21, 2021 at 4:29 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Where is it?

  30. 30.

    germy

    November 21, 2021 at 4:31 pm

    @Fair Economist:  Beanie Babies for neofascists?

    A good way to put it.  Maybe Pokemon cards?

  31. 31.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2021 at 4:37 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Well, as it turns out, when you put up the post on Sunday at 3pm – when you had settled on Saturday at 3pm – the Author doesn’t show up!

    I screwed up.  When she didn’t show in the first 30 minutes, i looked back at our correspondence and discovered my error.  So we’ll have that post next Saturday, if that works for her.

    Thankfully, I don’t do stuff like that very often, so I am going to forgive myself and say “oh well”.

  32. 32.

    rose weiss

    November 21, 2021 at 4:38 pm

    That piglet in a poke is really cute!

  33. 33.

    Just Chuck

    November 21, 2021 at 4:39 pm

    @Fair Economist: Right, NFT’s can be useful in any kind of exchange where the tokens are arbitrary and not able to be “mined”.  For example, carbon credits could be represented as NFT’s. They’d probably be even better as coins in a proof-of-stake blockchain, or just a plain old central database, but a public blockchain could have better self-organizing properties.

    “NFT art” strikes me as a misunderstanding of the concept, but then again nothing in the art world makes sense once money gets involved.  Before NFT’s it never had to be “good” art, but there was at least an attempt to pretend some effort and/or actual scarcity was involved.

  34. 34.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 21, 2021 at 4:42 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Every one of us has done stuff like that, often with far more dire consequences. I look forward to seeing it whenever it appears — she’s tackling some big, meaty issues!

  35. 35.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 21, 2021 at 4:45 pm

    @Just Chuck: what makes NFTs interesting as something stapled to art is that the artist generally gets a royalty whenever their token is *re*sold.

    NFTs actually make perfect sense for something like Decentraland, which is a smart-contract-based Second Life sorta thing that uses them for digital assets like land and buildings and, I don’t know, swords or whatever.

    Selling certificates of authenticity for ugly monkey drawings is definitely a solution in search of a problem situation. Hilariously, sort of, a lot of the artists seem unaware that they are selling a token and not the image itself.

  36. 36.

    Arclite

    November 21, 2021 at 4:45 pm

    OT, but Jennifer Smash. I don’t think you can be more anti-GOP while still being conservative.

    It is not enough for GOP congressional candidates to champion Second Amendment rights. They have to hold guns and destroy things in their ads. House members vaguely (or not so vaguely) hint at violence if things do not go their way. House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) thought it amusing to talk about how difficult he may find it to resist hitting the speaker with her own gavel.

  37. 37.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 21, 2021 at 4:51 pm

    Today is the Day of Freedom and Dignity in Ukraine.

    ??✌️Happy Day of Freedom and DignityOn this day the Orange Revolution in 2004 and the Revolution of Dignity in 2013 began.Freedom and dignity are worth a winter on fire. pic.twitter.com/fv1UFWN8kl— Ukraine / Україна (@Ukraine) November 21, 2021

    Well, it’s just about midnight there, so maybe I should say “today was…” but you get my drift.

    Слава Україні!

  38. 38.

    Just Chuck

    November 21, 2021 at 4:53 pm

    @Arclite: I dunno, “Don’t fling your poo in the chambers of Congress” could be interpreted as a reasonably conservative position…  Just that the modern interpretation of “conservative” is nowhere near reasonable.

    Used to be that to be a conservative, you could start as a liberal and never change your views.  Nowadays, Reagan would be be drummed out of the party as a squishy leftie.

  39. 39.

    Benw

    November 21, 2021 at 4:59 pm

    @WaterGirl: you should watch scientists try to figure out timezones to schedule remote meetings – most folks usually get it right by the 3rd meeting or so.

  40. 40.

    Starfish

    November 21, 2021 at 4:59 pm

    What if I told you that some of the crypto-bros think that NFTs are a scam? Some of the people who are into cryptocurrencies will not touch NFTs.

  41. 41.

    raven

    November 21, 2021 at 5:01 pm

    @Benw: Go Dawgs!

  42. 42.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2021 at 5:02 pm

    @Benw: I do suck at time zones.  Seriously.

  43. 43.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 21, 2021 at 5:04 pm

    @Ruckus:

    The newer result of crypto is: “If you think the mark is someone else, you are wrong, it’s still you.” 

    Hahaha.  True.

  44. 44.

    Just Chuck

    November 21, 2021 at 5:04 pm

    I’m not sure NFTs really qualify as a Gold Brick Scam: most of the people buying the NFTs already know they’re intrinsically worthless, they’re just hoping to pass it on to a higher-paying sucker.  I’m not sure what that scam is named.  “The Stock Market” perhaps?

  45. 45.

    sixthdoctor

    November 21, 2021 at 5:05 pm

    I really liked this crypto meme referencing What We Do In The Shadows.

  46. 46.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 21, 2021 at 5:06 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Which is hilarious because it’s all imaginary bullshit anyway. “Fiat” currency or gold, it doesn’t matter. Before there were technological uses for gold and the like, what value did precious metals really hold for ancient and not-so-ancient peoples aside from looking pretty? Without humans around, gold would be just another heavy metal that was created in the cores of stars during the fusion process billions of years ago

  47. 47.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 21, 2021 at 5:09 pm

    @Just Chuck:

     “The Stock Market” perhaps?

    Eh, you can make legitimate money on the stock market relatively safely provided you invest in well-diversified, low-cost index funds that track the US and international stock markets as well as in the appropriate proportion for bonds

    Hell, that’s how pension funds and the like make their money

  48. 48.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 21, 2021 at 5:11 pm

    @Just Chuck: Same.  FAT32 forever!

  49. 49.

    RSA

    November 21, 2021 at 5:12 pm

    @NotMax:  Bitcoins are an ether ore proposition.

    O M G

    Others have commented, I know, but this deserves widespread condemnation. :-)

  50. 50.

    sdhays

    November 21, 2021 at 5:13 pm

    @Just Chuck: I was so glad he added that at the end. I was thinking it must be spellcheck (but every single time?? didn’t he proofread at all??), and it was (mildly) irritating me. I can respect his reasons.

  51. 51.

    Nukular Biskits

    November 21, 2021 at 5:19 pm

    Completely unrelated but, since this is an open thread and Jackals are a wise bunch of pet lovers …

    My mom passed away this past July.  Among her treasures and joys is an ornamental fish pond with eight koi/goldfish(?).

    The next door neighbor has been feeding them but I’d really like to give them to someone who can take care of them.

    Any ideas?

  52. 52.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 21, 2021 at 5:19 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I like a tweet I saw the other day that said something like “the gold standard *is* fiat money—your central bank is a Brazilian mining consortium.”

  53. 53.

    opiejeanne

    November 21, 2021 at 5:20 pm

    @topclimber: Where is Baud? I just realized I haven’t seen him for a while

     

    Oh, wait. I seem to remember that Baud’s on vacation.

  54. 54.

    Major Major Major Major

    November 21, 2021 at 5:20 pm

    @Benw: you should watch computer scientists try to do anything involving time zones…

  55. 55.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    November 21, 2021 at 5:22 pm

    OT but I don’t know if you guys have got the news over there that there are nasty goings on in the Netherlands etc., by anti-vaxxers et. al. Demonstrations, violence, chucking fireworks at the police, police retaliating with water cannons.  I was surprised to be honest, I thought Europeans were slightly more sensible but obviously not.  I even saw a “My Body My Choice” sign at one point, whodathunkit.

  56. 56.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2021 at 5:22 pm

    @opiejeanne: Baud is off galavanting on an overseas trip.  Lucky Baud.  Us, not so much!

  57. 57.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 21, 2021 at 5:25 pm

    @WaterGirl: Fundraising for Baud! 2024!

  58. 58.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 21, 2021 at 5:27 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Yup.  Whole bunch of anti-vax bullshit going on in European countries and Australia.

    Congrats American dumbasses!  You aren’t the only plague rats!

  59. 59.

    Xenos

    November 21, 2021 at 5:30 pm

    @Just Chuck: When I was studying for my series 7 license this was described as “painting the tape”, using fake transactions to pump and dump a security.  The patter of wire transfers leaves a pretty clear record of wire fraud, though, so I would not advise it.  The years in prison can add up with all those fraudulent payments being tied back to the promoters.

  60. 60.

    topclimber

    November 21, 2021 at 5:30 pm

    @opiejeanne: ​
     
    I thought Baud was always on vacation. Just not from BJ.

  61. 61.

    Xenos

    November 21, 2021 at 5:34 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: I deal with anti-vaxxers all the time in Europe.  Usually people who otherwise have good reason to distrust authority, and who are educated just enough to have still bought into authenticity as some sort of transcendent personal value.

    I don’t try to educate them, I just try to explain why their position is foolish.  The key is to cut them off when you can sense where they are going, so I am ranting about other people, not them, at least not necessarily.  Maybe it does some good.

  62. 62.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2021 at 5:36 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:  Baud doesn’t need to be off meeting with those rich fat cats – he has us!

  63. 63.

    opiejeanne

    November 21, 2021 at 5:36 pm

    @WaterGirl: I forgot. Thanks. I wonder if they* will share pictures with us on On The Road.

    *Do we know Baud’s preferred gender?

  64. 64.

    HeleninEire

    November 21, 2021 at 5:43 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Excellent.

  65. 65.

    Kent

    November 21, 2021 at 5:44 pm

    @Nukular Biskits: There are various sites like NextDoor where you can offer up free stuff to the neighborhood.  Every time I offer something for free on NextDoor I quickly get takers.  The politics side of NextDoor can be toxic, but it is a good way to buy and sell and give away stuff locally.

  66. 66.

    CaseyL

    November 21, 2021 at 5:48 pm

    @Benw: I had to schedule a teleconference that included the US, Europe, and Australia.  That was loads of fun.

  67. 67.

    Nukular Biskits

    November 21, 2021 at 5:51 pm

    @Kent:
    Thanks for the suggestion.

    I’ll look into that but (and I probably should have provided a tad more background), we’re talking small town rural Mississippi.

    In any case, it’s part and parcel of what to do with the accumulation of a lifetime of treasures after someone passes.

  68. 68.

    HeleninEire

    November 21, 2021 at 5:51 pm

    @Starfish: LOL. My 87 year old Dad asked me what NFTs are. I told him it’s just like Crypto and Bitcoin. All bullshit. All of it.

    Because neither of us understand any of this bullshit he was satisfied with my answer.

    Pyramid schemes. All of it.

  69. 69.

    Ksmiami

    November 21, 2021 at 5:53 pm

    @HeleninEire: not a pyramid scheme- more a mania…fraudulent speculative asset bubble

  70. 70.

    Ksmiami

    November 21, 2021 at 5:56 pm

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Putin influenced.. he’s going to invade Ukraine isn’t he…?  man, the 2020s are looking like a shitty decade for humanity

  71. 71.

    HeleninEire

    November 21, 2021 at 5:57 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Agree. The stock market is absolutely not “the economy” but if you are a long term investor in index mutual funds you can absolutely make money.

  72. 72.

    Sure Lurkalot

    November 21, 2021 at 6:00 pm

    Part of me sees why people fall for NFTs because inscrutable, also edgy.

    But I really don’t understand how people buy into multi level marketing scams like NuSkin, Amway, etc. Or timeshares.

  73. 73.

    Geminid

    November 21, 2021 at 6:01 pm

    @Nukular Biskits: There seem to be a lot of local koi clubs and associations out there. You might try looking up “Koi clubs near me.” Or, check out the Associated Koi Clubs of America website at AKCA.org. Good luck!

    Edit. Someone else’s suggestion of an aquarium store reminded me that water garden centers sell koi in addition to pumps, tubs etc. They might take fish off your hands. Finding a hobbyist would maybe be better, but a store will do the same, just make a little money off the fish.

  74. 74.

    HeleninEire

    November 21, 2021 at 6:02 pm

    @Ksmiami: So it’s kind of a mania pyramid scheme. First in, richest out. Last in, poorest out.

  75. 75.

    eclare

    November 21, 2021 at 6:07 pm

    @Nukular Biskits:   Maybe Craig’s List?  With the understanding that whoever receives the fish picks them up?  Don’t know if you are closer to Memphis or NOLA.

  76. 76.

    Ohio Mom

    November 21, 2021 at 6:08 pm

    @Nukular Biskits: Is there an aquarium store nearby that sells koi? Maybe they’d buy them or have another idea. Or donate to them to a local botanical garden or zoo that has a koi pond? Or do as Kent suggests and advertise on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, etc.

    A friend whose mother just entered a memory care unit left behind a wild box turtle she had “rescued” and then overfed so much the fellow couldn’t get back in his shell.

    The zoo wouldn’t take him, suggested the turtle be returned to where he was originally kidnapped from. When my friend protested that he’d be eaten because he was too fat to protect himself, the zookeepers answer was a shrug and that other animals have to eat too.

    She eventually found a turtle rescuer to adopt the poor thing.

    ETA: oh, I see these fish are in the middle of nowhere. Oh well.

    Good luck and condolences on the loss of your mom.

  77. 77.

    Fair Economist

    November 21, 2021 at 6:13 pm

    @Ksmiami: Many cryptos are adding a more classic Ponzi aspect. Many coins now allow “staking” where traders performing transactions have to pay a fee to the existing coinowners who are staking. In many cases this could be an honest transaction, as the existing coinowners are securing the blockchain in these schemes (called “Proof of Stake”). If transactions on the blockchain serve some purpose *other* than buying the coin, like validating a credit card transaction or proving authenticity of branded goods, then those using the validation are paying a fee to the blockchain operators for a valuable service. BUT – if the coin exists only as a store of value, it’s a Ponzi scheme, and not just in the speculative bubble sense.

  78. 78.

    MagdaInBlack

    November 21, 2021 at 6:18 pm

    @Nukular Biskits:  There are Koi rescue groups too, I found when I googled. Worth a shot ?

  79. 79.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 21, 2021 at 6:19 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Baud doesn’t need to be off meeting with those rich fat cats – he has us!

    We have entire posts about fat cats!  With photos!  Almost every day!

  80. 80.

    JoyceH

    November 21, 2021 at 6:20 pm

    @Sure Lurkalot:

    But I really don’t understand how people buy into multi level marketing scams like NuSkin, Amway, etc. Or timeshares.

    One of the streamers (I think Netflix), had an interesting three part series about Lularoe. It was really eye-opening. I had heard of Lularoe as a purveyor of popular leggings, but hadn’t realized it was an MLM. And you can kind of see how people fall for it. For one thing, the early joiners do make money, pots of money! So of course they’re enthusiastic, and that enthusiasm is convincing. Many of these MLMs target stay at home moms, and one of the sales points is to be able to contribute to the family’s finances. And then it gets very cult-like. If you’re a distributor and you’re not making the big bucks, they convince you that you’re just doing it wrong.

    Essential oils also became the product of choice for MLMs. Also cult-like, with these massive, massive rally-style conventions.

    I’ve known people who got involved in Amway and stuff like that, but the ones I knew didn’t get in too deep – they gave it a try, didn’t make much money, if any, gave up on it.

  81. 81.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 21, 2021 at 6:24 pm

    @Just Chuck: “The Greater Fool Theory” is the classical name for the phenomenon. That’s just a classic speculative bubble.

  82. 82.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 21, 2021 at 6:28 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    We have entire posts about fat cats! With photos! Almost every day!

    Our cats are not fat! They are big-boned! And floofy!

  83. 83.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 21, 2021 at 6:29 pm

    @Sure Lurkalot: Many of them run on cultural affinity, which is really what “inscrutable, therefore edgy” is. It’s just that in many cases it’s something like Christian evangelical affinity or New Agey affinity. You put a lot of language about Jesus or positive thinking in there, and to some people it just sounds right.

  84. 84.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 21, 2021 at 6:30 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Our cats are not fat!

    You could post a photo of a ham hock with lint on it and no one could tell the difference.

  85. 85.

    Urza

    November 21, 2021 at 6:30 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I was working at a tech company in 2001.  They somehow messed up daylight savings, which mattered for their billing, every time until I got it.  It was literally just a table update and install it at the right time.  After I moved on they had issues again.  Not sure why its so hard.

  86. 86.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 21, 2021 at 6:46 pm

    @Ksmiami: “Going to?” He did, back in 2014.

  87. 87.

    SiubhanDuinne

    November 21, 2021 at 6:50 pm

    O/T; There’s apparently some very ugly shit going on in Wisconsin (Waukesha, I think?)

    From my very limited understanding of the very limited reporting, there was a crowd of people there protesting the Rittenhouse verdict; a speeding car went through a police line and into the crowd; and there reports of shots being fired.

    It’s all pretty vague, and unconfirmed so far. The above may be accurate, only partly accurate, or totally and wildly inaccurate.

    ETA: A Christmas parade, not a protest.

  88. 88.

    debbie

    November 21, 2021 at 6:53 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    It was a Christmas parade. A red SUV sped down the parade route and plowed into, I think, a parade band.

  89. 89.

    jeffreyw

    November 21, 2021 at 6:53 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

     

    Ginger Boy is waiting for the Most Favored Kitties to leave him an opening. He is Biding his time. Watching. pic.twitter.com/mkxg3so7kE— jeffreyw (@imjeffreyw) November 21, 2021

  90. 90.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    November 21, 2021 at 6:54 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    Do we know Baud’s preferred gender?

    Yes, Baud is a male pantless attorney.

  91. 91.

    jeffreyw

    November 21, 2021 at 6:55 pm

    @jeffreyw:

     

    With the Most Favored Kitty and the MFK runnerup resting on their laurels, Ginger Boy makes a move. pic.twitter.com/jj8qWTdpVB— jeffreyw (@imjeffreyw) November 21, 2021

  92. 92.

    Nukular Biskits

    November 21, 2021 at 6:57 pm

    @Geminid:
    Yeah, I thought about calling the local Petsmart (in Meridian, MS) to see if they had any suggestions.

    Teh google is worth a try as well.  As  for someone making a buck or two off of “free fish”, well, that doesn’t bother me.  I’d just like to find someone who’d take care of them.

  93. 93.

    Sure Lurkalot

    November 21, 2021 at 6:58 pm

    @JoyceH: I’ll have to check out that series, sounds interesting.

    I too have friends and family who got pulled into one MLM product or another…popular with teachers too for some side income…but it often seemed the recruitment devolved to just more people trying to sell the same products to the about the same bunch of people.

  94. 94.

    Nukular Biskits

    November 21, 2021 at 6:58 pm

    @eclare:

    I haven’t tried Craigslist.
    I have used that in the past to buy/sell vehicles but it seems that CL doesn’t have the response it used to (I’ve a bike for sale on the local one and haven’t had a single hit … but, that may just be me).

    Worth a shot, though.

  95. 95.

    Sure Lurkalot

    November 21, 2021 at 7:00 pm

    @jeffreyw: I love your Twitter feed! Beautiful kitties and gorgeous food.

  96. 96.

    Nukular Biskits

    November 21, 2021 at 7:03 pm

    @Ohio Mom:

    Yeah.  With respect to Meridian, I’m reminded of a quote (apocryphal?) attributed to Mark Twain, that I adapt for my own purposes:

    When the end of the world comes, I want to be in Meridian/Mississippi* because it’s always 50 years behind.

    *whichever is appropriate

  97. 97.

    jeffreyw

    November 21, 2021 at 7:07 pm

    @Sure Lurkalot: Thanks!

  98. 98.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2021 at 7:07 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck: Not that kind of fat cat.

  99. 99.

    eclare

    November 21, 2021 at 7:09 pm

    @Nukular Biskits:   Hahaha…my family is from around Brookhaven, most of us in Memphis now, including me.

  100. 100.

    Nukular Biskits

    November 21, 2021 at 7:18 pm

    @eclare:

    I’m a native Mississippian, born & raised here.  Originally from Meridian, but been living here on the Coast for over 30 years.

    Pretty much anywhere north of I-10 and anything outside college towns in this benighted state are still stuck in the ’50s … the 1850s.

    ;>)

  101. 101.

    SFAW

    November 21, 2021 at 7:19 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    Where is Baud? I just realized I haven’t seen him for a while

    Who? Is he/she a front-pager or something?

  102. 102.

    The Pale Scot

    November 21, 2021 at 7:19 pm

    @Nukular Biskits:

    Carp are good eating

  103. 103.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2021 at 7:24 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck: Before my cocker spaniel was diagnosed with autoimmune hemolytic anemia, he she was (let’s say) very broad.

    One year for halloween I dressed her up as a table, she was broad enough for a placemat, a plate, silverware, a cup etc.

    She trimmed down a lot once they put her on prednisone.

  104. 104.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2021 at 7:24 pm

    @SFAW: You can’t be serious, right? :-)

  105. 105.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 21, 2021 at 7:26 pm

    @WaterGirl: And don’t call him Shirley.

  106. 106.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    November 21, 2021 at 7:28 pm

    @WaterGirl: Look, Steve is NOT FAT, he’s just big boned.

  107. 107.

    Nukular Biskits

    November 21, 2021 at 7:30 pm

    @The Pale Scot:
    So I’ve heard.
    And I’ve probably eaten some over the years, just can’t remember doing so.

  108. 108.

    trnc

    November 21, 2021 at 7:35 pm

    Anyway I have here a digital NTFS piglet in a poke here, if any one is interested in buying it.

    Wouldn’t that be a pork chain?

  109. 109.

    JoyceH

    November 21, 2021 at 7:39 pm

    @Sure Lurkalot: Netflix also has a short series called [Un]Well, about the ‘wellness’ industry. The first episode is about essential oils.

  110. 110.

    NWO Joe

    November 21, 2021 at 7:39 pm

    Not Too Fkng Smart

    My god bitcoin strains credibility. I remember when it first started and it was a little niche thing but now it’s like a cross between organized crime and Amway.

  111. 111.

    Citizen Alan

    November 21, 2021 at 7:40 pm

    @jackmac: At my last job, I was astonished when I dropped by the IT department and saw that they had a spare monitor set up just to track everybody’s DogeCoin accounts. It was all I could do not to shout “You’re IT! You’re all computer savvy! You should no better than this!”

  112. 112.

    Poe Larity

    November 21, 2021 at 7:43 pm

    How can we take Baud seriously when there are no Baudcoins or NFTs?

  113. 113.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2021 at 7:48 pm

    @Poe Larity: But there are Baudettes!

  114. 114.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 21, 2021 at 8:09 pm

    @WaterGirl: Are you gals a fraud too?

  115. 115.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2021 at 8:27 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: No, sir, we most definitely are not!

  116. 116.

    lowtechcyclist

    November 21, 2021 at 8:30 pm

    Don’t know how to copy & paste a tweet, but this has to be in the running for best tweet of the year:

    https://twitter.com/elongreen/status/1462491262108540948

  117. 117.

    WaterGirl

    November 21, 2021 at 8:35 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: For next time, or maybe for practice this time.

    Go to the tweet and click on the 3 dots in the upper right hand corner (in my browser anyway).

    Dropdox says “embed tweet” so I click on that.  It lets me copy the code which I paste into a comment using the Text tab (not the visual tab).

    The images won’t show up unless you are front-pager, but you get the tweet in a block quote.

  118. 118.

    Ohio Mom

    November 21, 2021 at 9:00 pm

    @Nukular Biskits: I googled Meridian, it really is the the middle of nowhere.

    Is there an upscale landscaping company nearby? Maybe they install koi ponds and have a customer who will take good care of your mom’s lovelies.

  119. 119.

    Yutsano

    November 21, 2021 at 9:12 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: The sad part is Karl will never see it. Even worse, he’ll never take that to heart. Again: introspection is not a thing for them.

  120. 120.

    Ken

    November 21, 2021 at 9:19 pm

    @NWO Joe:  like a cross between organized crime and Amway

    You say that like those are two different things…

  121. 121.

    Ksmiami

    November 21, 2021 at 9:49 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: ThAts the term I was waiting for…

  122. 122.

    Tony Gerace

    November 21, 2021 at 9:57 pm

    @Kent: The Rittenhousing Bubble.  Unfortunately, it hasn’t burst yet.  I predict that young Kyle will make some real money on the Fox News/OAN/Newsmax circuit, at least until they find the next white teen celebrity murderer.

  123. 123.

    Just Chuck

    November 21, 2021 at 10:05 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Yeh, I was being snarky, but you have to admit it’s not without a grain of truth.  “Irrational Exhuberance” and all that.

  124. 124.

    NWO Joe

    November 21, 2021 at 11:59 pm

    @Ken: 

    True. I was overlooking that intersectionality and thinking about the criminality just below the surface (“art” shilling and money laundering) and the compulsion many of those folks seem to have about relentlessly promoting it like it’s the way of the future. A hot mess either way…

  125. 125.

    lowtechcyclist

    November 22, 2021 at 8:13 am

    @WaterGirl: Thanks! Let’s see if this works:

    .@jonkarl on the press challenge of covering Trump 2024, on @ReliableSources. “You’re covering essentially an anti-democratic candidate. You’re covering somebody running in a system that is trying to undermine that very system. And somebody who is going to be perpetually lying.”— Jim Maiella (@jimmaiella) November 21, 2021

    so what’s the challenge. just say that, you idiots https://t.co/AD3Px0ijCF— Elon Green (@elongreen) November 21, 2021

    (Yeah, I know it’s the next morning and all, but figured I could practice in this dead thread.)

  126. 126.

    WaterGirl

    November 22, 2021 at 8:25 am

    @lowtechcyclist: Go, you!

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