Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

They punch you in the face and then start crying because their fist hurts.

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

We still have time to mess this up!

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

If a good thing happens for a bad reason, it’s still a good thing.

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

When we show up, we win.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Disappointing to see gov. newsom with his finger to the wind.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Human rights are not a matter of opinion!

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Tuesday Evening Open Thread: ‘Unite the Right’ Gets A Big Bill

Tuesday Evening Open Thread: ‘Unite the Right’ Gets A Big Bill

by | 162 Comments

This post is in: , , ,

… After a nearly monthlong civil trial, the jury in U.S. District Court deadlocked on two key claims but found the white nationalists liable on four other claims in the lawsuit filed by nine people who suffered physical or emotional injuries during the two days of demonstrations.

Attorney Roberta Kaplan said the plaintiffs’ lawyers plan to refile the suit so a new jury can decide the two deadlocked claims…

The verdict, though mixed, is a rebuke to the white nationalist movement, particularly for the two dozen individuals and organizations accused in a federal lawsuit of orchestrating violence against African Americans, Jews and others in a meticulously planned conspiracy.

White nationalist leader Richard Spencer vowed to appeal, saying the “entire theory of that verdict is fundamentally flawed.”

He said plaintiffs’ attorneys made it clear before the trial that they wanted to use the case to bankrupt him and other defendants…

Prominent white supremacists Richard Spencer, Jason Kessler and Christopher Cantwell and others engaged in a conspiracy to intimidate, harass or harm in advance of the deadly Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville in 2017, a jury has ruled.

The jury did not reach a verdict on two federal conspiracy charges, but did find that every defendant was liable for civil conspiracy under Virginia law.

The jury then awarded a total of $26 million in damages against the 12 individual defendants and five white nationalist organizations on trial. More than half that money is owed by James Fields, who is serving a life sentence for ramming into a crowd of counterprotesters with his car during the rally and killing Heather Heyer.

The 11 jurors needed only to find “a preponderance of the evidence,” rather than the higher bar of “beyond reasonable doubt” in criminal trials. But they deadlocked on two federal claims of a race-based conspiracy, while agreeing that there was a conspiracy under Virginia state law and that the victims were entitled to compensation.

During that rage-filled weekend, a torch-carrying mob chanted “Jews will not replace us!” and a neo-Nazi rammed his car into a crowd of counterprotesters, killing 32-year-old counterprotester Heather Heyer. Nine people who said they suffered physical and emotional harm filed the lawsuit, which is underpinned by a Reconstruction-era statute designed to protect newly emancipated Black people from the Ku Klux Klan…

Reader Interactions

162Comments

  1. 1.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    From the German health minister

    Some would say this is cynical but probably by the end of this winter, pretty much everyone in Germany will be vaccinated, recovered or dead … That’s the reality,” Jens Spahn told a press conference in Berlin on Monday.

  3. 3.

    Old School

    For those who didn’t click through to see Heather Heyer’s mother’s quote:

    “I support their case and am grateful the jury recognized guilt. The case brought a lot of information about the planning of UTR to light. In addition to bringing these organizations and individuals to account, it sends a message to others that there are consequences to putting hate speech into action.”

  4. 4.

    sab

    As I said below. These guys will declare bankruptcy. Their already bad credit scores will suffer a bit. Everyone else in America with student loans will be in the same place. What has changed? Except good people are still dead?

  6. 6.

    Gvg

    @sab: declaring bankruptcy doesn’t get them out of trouble or save their assets. It may leave them their homes and a car. The creditors still get the rest. I doubt they have this much, although they may. That isn’t the point. They lose almost everything they have, and it weakens their ability to do as much in the future.
    Also big donors will not donate now because they know money will go toward this judgement, not future rallies or adds or recruitment. They may start donating to some other figureheads which will have to be faced. It won’t be enough to cut down these actors alone, but it’s a start. A few times like this, and we can make real progress.

  7. 7.

    Kattails

    About the jury findings– good. Make these bastards pay through the nose. It’s willful harm. Heather Heyer’s mom has been remarkable all through this.

    taking advantage of open thread: In this morning’s post there were grief topics, myself, Sab and others having lost dear pets yesterday or very recently.  Tonight I found this link on Rex Chapman’s twitter feed, a snip from an interview on Steven Colbert’s show with Andrew Garfield, who had lost his mother.  “Grief is unexpressed love” A really gorgeous couple of minutes.  Wanted to share it here.

    Now back to your previously scheduled politics.

  8. 8.

    CaseyL

    Turning off the money tap seems to be the only way to ruin these wastes of protoplasm; they’ll certainly never lack for followers.

    Wonder if the Mercers will bail them out.

  9. 9.

    dimmsdale

    I haven’t yet run across anything in the media on this yet, but I’m wondering if this puts dark-money UTR funders in any legal jeopardy? Open them up to aiding and abetting, etc.? Or, if the low-hanging fruit all declare bankruptcy, does that close the door on going after funders farther up the line? Also, per gvg above, can these bums declare bankruptcy and THEN resume the same activities, taking funding from the same daddy-warbuckses as before?

  10. 10.

    Tony Jay

    Speaking of rightwing dregs getting a flushing, I’m hearing rumours that certain far-Right Tory MPs have begun handing in Letters of No Confidence to the 1922 Committee, which is the essential first step in turfing out a Tory leader.

    Flobalob’s bad week might be about to get a little bit worse. OTOH, this could just be a shot across the bows to remind the spineless oaf that the Spodes in the Party can cause him as much trouble as they did May if he wobbles on the Eurobashing/Brownbashing front.

    Either way, I hope it drives the jowly maggot mad with fear.

  11. 11.

    lowtechcyclist

    @sab:

    As I said below. These guys will declare bankruptcy. Their already bad credit scores will suffer a bit. Everyone else in America with student loans will be in the same place. What has changed?

    For one thing, the Bankruptcy Act of 2005 makes it a lot harder to just declare bankruptcy and start over with a clean slate.  Wikipedia:

    The Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act (BAPCPA) made changes to American bankruptcy laws, affecting both consumer and business bankruptcies. Many of the bill’s provisions were explicitly designed by the bill’s Congressional sponsors to make it “more difficult for people to file for bankruptcy.”[1] The BAPCPA was intended to make it more difficult for debtors to file a Chapter 7 Bankruptcy—under which most debts are forgiven (or discharged)–and instead required them to file a Chapter 13 Bankruptcy—under which the debts they incurred are discharged only after the debtor has repaid some portion of these debts.

    I think that’s a bad deal, and it’s one of the things I’ve long been pissed at Joe Biden about.  But if anyone deserves to be ground beneath the wheel of an unreasonable bankruptcy law, it’s these guys.

  13. 13.

    Roger Moore

    @sab:

    As I said below. These guys will declare bankruptcy.

    IIRC, bankruptcy won’t clear those debts.  You can clear judgments that were for a normal debt, but not a penalty for doing something wrong.

  14. 14.

    trollhattan

    @Roger Moore: Hopefully they’ll haunt them like student loans [shudder].

    And at some bedding mill, an enormous flat sheet order (“Country Blizzard” color) has just been terminated.

  16. 16.

    Geminid

    @dimmsdale: Are you certain there were dark money funders? My impression was that the different groups involved were self motivating and paid their own way. The plaintiffs got a hold of a lot of the defendents’ communications, and if there were other funders it was very well hidden.

  18. 18.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: The plaintiffs and Integrity for America, the outfit that sponsored the lawsuit, also want to deter others from organizing violent demonstrations.

  19. 19.

    SpaceUnit

    I get the impression that most of these guys are unemployable.  Not a lot of companies want to be associated with their ilk, and so their only means of support is fundraising  / grifting off the white supremacy cause.  So I’m guessing they’re pretty well screwed.

    Maybe the My Pillow guy will give them jobs, but I’m sure he’d come to regret it.

  21. 21.

    burnspbesq

    @lowtechcyclist:

    If you’re into irony, consider that the 2005 revisions to the Bankruptcy Code got Joe Biden the nickname “the Senator from MBNA.” His fingerprints are all over that particular piece of legislation.

  22. 22.

    NotMax

    While on the subject of financial judgments,

    A federal judge in Colorado on Monday ordered two pro-Trump lawyers who launched one of MAGAland’s many lawsuits aiming to undo the 2020 election to hand over $186,922 in attorneys fees to the defendants in their suit, including Dominion Voting Systems and Facebook.
    [snip]
    The judge also asserted that the suit was used to “manipulate gullible members of the public and foment public unrest.”

    “To that extent, this lawsuit has been an abuse of the legal system and an interference with the machinery of government,” he wrote. Source

  23. 23.

    dimmsdale

    @Geminid:  I honestly don’t know–I just assume there’s a ton of right-wing dark money behind most of this stuff, including the phalanxes of “concerned” “parents” assaulting local school boards. It’s just an assumption, of course, and I was unaware of the self-funding in this particular case.

  24. 24.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: Some groups knew this rally was trouble and distanced themselves beforehand.  The national Pagans’ motorcycle club forebade local members from participating, on threat of losing their “colors.” Proud Boys founder Gavin MacInnes(sp?) said that the organization disclaimed any participation. A few months later MacInnes washed his hands of his creation. MacInnes is worth some money and didn’t want to lose it.

  26. 26.

    Another Scott

    There have to be consequences or bad behavior will continue. That’s just Science.

    In other news, …

    Former South Korean military dictator Chun Doo-hwan has died at age 90. This means all living former South Korean Presidents are currently in jail.

    — Carrington Clarke (@carringtonAU) November 23, 2021

    Interesting. Will TFG be American’s first??

    (via DPRK_News)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  29. 29.

    Kalakal

    @Tony Jay: I think it’s going to get a lot worse for the little shit. The resulting leadership election will put the entire collection of spineless weasles through the mincing machine. The current collection of Tory MPs is an collection of nasty stupid people all of whom’s ambition wildly exceeds their abilities united only in their loathing for each other and contempt for their voters. An awful lot of knives will be out

  33. 33.

    Patricia Kayden

    President Barack Obama has been nominated for a THIRD Grammy, in addition to his two terms and his Nobel Peace Prize.Former guy has two impeachments, 2 lost popular votes, and one major Electoral loss under his belt.EDGE: OBAMA— BrooklynDad_Defiant! (@mmpadellan) November 23, 2021

  35. 35.

    trollhattan

    @hueyplong: ​Here’s today’s Pillow Clown news.

    November 23, 2021 at 12:32 pm EST By Taegan Goddard
    “MyPillow chief and 2020 dead-ender Mike Lindell has long promised that he would file an election-fraud complaint with the Supreme Court on Tuesday morning,” the Daily Beast reports.

    “But now he claims to have missed that goal because he was silenced by Republican National Committee Chairperson Ronna McDaniel.”

    All you can do is stand back and pray for injuries.

  36. 36.

    oatler

    “Why should you pay for a crime someone else…noticed?”

    Bob Loblaw (odiously played by Scott Baio)

  39. 39.

    SpaceUnit

    @Cameron:

    Yeah.  He’s claiming the current RNC chair is orchestrating a conspiracy to kill his petition to the Supreme Court or something.  There was an article in the Daily Beast about it today.  I tried to follow it but it was just crazy all the way through.  You’d have to sniff glue for two or three hours for it to make any sense.

     

    ETA:  Oops, Trollhattan beat me to it.

  41. 41.

    Kent

    For the attorneys here. What are the chances that Rittenhouse gets sued for damages in civil court in a similar manner?   He probably has nothing to seize now, but that would prevent him from cashing in on his fame.

  42. 42.

    hueyplong

    Thanks to all. Those links were Schadenfreudelicious, yet I’m sure I have room for more.

    Pillow Clown calling Fox news unreliable and staffed by traitors was interesting. Kinda doubt he meant it the way we do.

  44. 44.

    Almost Retired

    @Kent: the chances are slightly more than 100 percent.  Regardless of his assets or grifting potential, this is the type of high profile put-it-on- your-website case that makes us drool.

    ETA – but I am in California.  Wisconsin may be different.

  47. 47.

    Geminid

    @dimmsdale: There could have been outside money. It was not an expensive affair, though. I think the different organizations saw the rally as a recruiting and brand building opportunity, and their members shared cars and motel rooms for the “cause.” They mostly have jobs.

    The militias mainly marched in to the park, and then when the State Police declared an illegal demonstration, marched a mile up McIntyre road to a park where people like Richard Spencer spoke.* A number of men, some affiliated with RAM (Rise Above Movement, now defunct), came to attack counterdemonstrators, and assaulted people before and after the rally broke up. Five of them were identified and arrested later. The local judge gave them 2 to 3 years prison time. A Maryland Klansman got 7-8 years for firing a shot that didn’t hit anyone, and luckily did not start a firefight.

    *The city thought it had moved the rally to the more isolated McIntyre park. But with the help of the ACLU, the organizer sued and a federal judge agreed that he could hold his rally at the Lee statue, the pretext for the rally. It was a terrible decision, and the community is lucky it did not result in a bloodbath.

  49. 49.

    sab

    @hueyplong: Lindell is advertising on whatever weird channel my husband watches Bewitched and Brady Bunch on. Inspiration? It’s up there on the cable dial with the religious channels.

  50. 50.

    Brachiator

    @Tony Jay:

    Either way, I hope it drives the jowly maggot mad with fear.

    He can cling to his Peppa Pig doll for reassurance.

    What is it with Conservatives (Boris Johnson, David Cameron) and their porcine pals?

  54. 54.

    Ruckus

    @trollhattan:

    I wonder when the big tears start flowing because the Pillow Clown has zero friends and his business is bankrupt because all the people that bought some crap from him find out that not only is what he sells not worth the cost of shipping it but what he says is worth even less?

  56. 56.

    Cameron

    @Brachiator:

    “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”  – George Orwell

  58. 58.

    sdhays

    @Tony Jay: …remind the spineless oaf that the Spodes in the Party can cause him as much trouble as they did May if he wobbles on the Eurobashing/Brownbashing front.

    He just needs to find their “Eulalie”.

  60. 60.

    Mallard Filmore

    @germy: 

    How did I miss this? “The Trump Prophecy” ??

    While that particular vid is a hoot, the YouTube channel looks legit. I especially like the trailer for “Brain Freeze”. Zombies!!!

  63. 63.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Meant to mention this earlier, but didn’t:

    Programming note — Hillary Clinton is going to be on The Rachel Maddow Show tonight. I shall certainly be watching; perhaps other jackals will as well. (MSNBC, 9:00 pm EST).

  66. 66.

    Barbara

    @lowtechcyclist: ​ You don’t get to extinguish punitive damages or criminal fines in bankruptcy. And if they declare bankruptcy, everything they own will be transferred or sold for the benefit of their creditors, with the exception of the first mortgage on their residence and their IRAs and 401K accounts. Why do people think that bankruptcy is like a get out of jail free card? It’s not.​

    Also, I know we are watchful and wary but this really seems like a victory and we should allow ourselves at least a little celebration.

  69. 69.

    Dan B

    @NotMax: So who would be the models for the angels carrying her drape?  I’m imagining Bannon, Stephen Miller, Ghouliani…  any others come to mind?

  70. 70.

    Jeffro

    @Gvg: 

    seconded on all points

    we have to prosecute each and every one of these kkklowns every time they incite or commit violence

  71. 71.

    steppy

    I wish the reference wasn’t so esoteric. “Spodes” as shorthand for cosplay Fascists would be extremely useful to point out their essential haplessness.

  73. 73.

    UncleEbeneezer

    For anyone who didn’t get enough chance to slam your head into a desk today, check out the focus group results of No VA swing voters:

    Education dominated the Governor’s race with these Biden/Youngkin voters. It was the issue these voters heard most about, and it’s what they were most likely to say the election was about. They did not necessarily describe it as the top issue facing the country; most pointed to the pandemic and resulting economic hardships. But in Virginia, it dominated.

    o School closures + COVID policy were a bigger factor than CRT. These voters were more animated talking about their dissatisfaction with their local school districts’ handling of COVID. They felt buffeted by changing and inconsistent policies and concerned about the impact on student learning loss, and there was a sense among some that Virginia was not following the science by keeping schools closed later than other states. One participant, a Biden voter, stated flat out that her vote for Youngkin “was against the party that closed the schools for so long last year.”

    o The “parents” gaffe was sticky, but it wasn’t the whole of the problem by any stretch. People remembered the quote about parents and schools from McAuliffe, and it bothered them. It said something about Terry and how he’d run the schools to them. However, the problem was that it played into an existing narrative that Democrats didn’t listen to parents when they kept the schools closed past any point of reason and that they’d close the schools again over parents’ objections. They broadly don’t feel heard right now when it comes to schools, and they blame liberals and Democrats.

    o CRT in schools is not an issue in and of itself, but it taps into these voters’ frustrations. Voters were nearly unanimous in describing the country as divided and feeling that politics is unavoidably in their faces (“It went in one year from extreme politics in one direction to extreme politics in another direction.”). They feel that people’s ability to have a civil discussion has vanished, and that they have to walk on eggshells even on seemingly innocuous topics. This extends to discussions around race in schools, where they were less concerned with critical race theory as an idea or curriculum but expressed frustration with the black-and-white approach they see taken toward such complicated subjects:

    “In an attempt for inclusion, there’s a lack of respect for opinions that don’t match yours identically. It’s so divisive and if you don’t think exactly what I think then we can’t even be friends.”
    “I feel like what I was taught in school was mainly Virginia history, and it was all white people and leaders. So I understand why they’re doing that, but I feel like there’s a certain way to go about those things.”

    “It doesn’t need to be aggressive, in your face. It needs to be smoother and with a variety of approaches, and not accusatory.” “It’s really not cool right now to be anti-progressive. People don’t want to be cancelled and they want to be inclusive.”

    This isn’t about “critical race theory” itself, and we shouldn’t dismiss that CRT isn’t real and think we’ve tackled the issue. Many swing voters knew, when pushed by more-liberal members of the group, that CRT wasn’t taught in Virginia schools. But at the same time, they felt like racial and social justice issues were overtaking math, history, and other things. They absolutely want their kids to hear the good and the bad of American history, at the same time they are worried that racial and cultural issues are taking over the state’s curricula. We should expect this backlash to continue, especially as it plays into another way where parents and communities feel like they are losing control over their schools in addition to the basics of even being able to decide if they’re open or not.

  75. 75.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Barbara: Because a lot of people now believe that everyone will get away with everything and that, even if it briefly seems like they won’t, a Trumpy judge, Schumer, Manchin, Sinema or AOC will wreck it somehow.

  76. 76.

    Tony Jay

    @Kalakal:

    Oh hell yes, it’s going to be brutal. The last Tory leadership bout was basically a coronation for That Funny Bloke Off Of The Telly, but this time it’s going to be a whirling chaotica of third-rate wannabes who all think they’re destined for greatness alternately kneecapping and fisting each other while spewing ever accelerating volumes of red-meat vileness in the direction of Tory Party members.

    The News Media will love every sickly second of it, and whoever survives to climb out of the threshing pit with their knickers on backwards will enjoy the soft, suckling sensation of a thousand political pundits learning to fit willing mouths around their suddenly emerging suitability for the highest of offices.

    How… delightful.

  77. 77.

    trollhattan

    Hey, got Pfizer #3 24 hours ago and am happy to tell y’all I feel no aftereffects. None. #2 was a beast comprising pain, flu symptoms and little sleep for a day or two. I’m returning the horse stuff.

  82. 82.

    Poe Larity

    @Gvg:

    They lose almost everything they have, and it weakens their ability to do as much in the future.

    What we need is a law that prioritizes taking their guns & ammo. I know guys with $50k in guns.

  88. 88.

    Poe Larity

    @NotMax: What if all the great BJ artists made awful MAGA art and the proceeds went to good causes? They could all use DougJ for a signature.

  89. 89.

    Ken

    @Tony Jay: third-rate wannabes […] spewing ever accelerating volumes of red-meat vileness

    Even the ones who are… how to put this delicately… from the UK’s tropical former overseas possessions?

  90. 90.

    Geminid

    @Poe Larity: That’s another good reason to license firearms. A creditor might have a chance to collect a debtor’s guns in California, where ownership is recorded. Not so in Virginia, though, if the gun owner is willing to lie.

  94. 94.

    karen marie

    @sab: Why would they declare bankruptcy?  I’ll be surprised if they’re ever required to pay a cent.  These verdicts will be appealed, the jury award will be greatly reduced, if not thrown out.  The jury having deadlocked on two counts could spell trouble for the other four surviving an appeal.

  96. 96.

    Alison Rose

     

    He said plaintiffs’ attorneys made it clear before the trial that they wanted to use the case to bankrupt him and other defendants…

    Sounds good to me.

  98. 98.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Tony Jay: I can’t imagine Boris’ Benny Hill act goes over well with his party considering the Tory image is they are the VERY SERIOUS PEOPLE(tm).

  100. 100.

    Barbara

    @karen marie: JFC. Do you know anything about the legal theories they were using? The federal claims were a stretch, legally.  Worth pursuing to be sure, but completely different from the state ones on which they won.

  101. 101.

    Another Scott

    Meanwhile, … thread.

    Is watching the 1984 Ghostbusters movie killing people?

    Recent data show death rate of 10-59yr olds who have watched the 1984 Ghostbuster Movie is 2x higher than those who have watched the 2021 Ghostbuster movie

    I don't know how to explain this other than movie-caused mortality pic.twitter.com/1IOAs5G68g— Prof Jeffrey S Morris (@jsm2334) November 23, 2021

    ;-)

    (via CT_Bergstrom)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  104. 104.

    Scout211

    US Court of Appeals for DC wonders if they have jurisdiction in TFG’s records case.

    WASHINGTON — An order from a federal appeals court late Tuesday may be a worrisome sign for former President Donald Trump in his effort to assert executive privilege over documents sought by a House committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol.
    The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia notified lawyers for Trump, the House committee and the National Archives that they should be prepared to address whether the court even has the legal authority to hear the dispute. Oral arguments in the case are slated for Nov. 30.

  107. 107.

    cmorenc

    The plaintiffs won the big $$ verdict, but what are the chances of actually collecting any of it?  How many of the defendants are effectively civil-judgment-proof (via lack of leviable assets) or else have effectively transferred/secreted their assets to other parties?

  110. 110.

    Gin & Tonic

    For the cat lovers here:

    First in 50 years footprints of an Amur tiger – the world’s biggest cat – found in Yakutia, miles away from the tiger’s end of 20th century’s habitat in Russian Far East. The discovery confirms population of the rare tiger is growing; trail camera pic from the Far East of Russia pic.twitter.com/Z3CKF2rsze
    — The Siberian Times (@siberian_times) November 23, 2021

  111. 111.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @jnfr:

    These (Rachel and Hillary) are two very damned smart women. It’s a pleasure to listen to this conversation.

  112. 112.

    sdhays

    @Scout211: I just don’t understand the concept of Congress being able to write a law that says a court can’t review it. If that is a real thing, why don’t they do it more often. Could a wingnutty Congress pass a law saying any action taken by King Dump is not subject to court review?

  113. 113.

    mrmoshpotato

    I ordered an Instant Pot from Target!  I would like to thank blame NotMax!

    I will find others to thank blame in the coming days!

  115. 115.

    Scout211

    @sdhays:

    IANAL but apparently there was wording in the presidential records act to limit judicial review. NBC article.

    ETA:  I guess this doesn’t really answer your question.

    The court raised this question on its own, meaning that it was not suggested by the lawyers in the case. “Does the provision in the Presidential Records Act providing that the Archivist’s ‘determination whether access to a Presidential record…shall be restricted…shall not be subject to judicial review, except as provided in subsection (e) of this section’…implicate this court’s or the district court’s jurisdiction in this case?”
    The court then cited a 2001 case involving a challenge to the plans for the World War II Memorial on the National Mall in Washington. Congress had passed a law saying that no court could review the plans. The challengers argued the legislative language was unconstitutional, but an appeals court disagreed and tossed the lawsuit.

  117. 117.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Scout211: IAAL and Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. 137 laughs at this hot take. Of course, 218 years of established law means little to this SCOTUS….

  118. 118.

    Dan B

    @Another Scott: Good Dog the Tories are heartless vampires selling the Health Service to the highest bidder and charging the poor a huge amount – 80% – of their assets for care.  Will the next move be to set up tents in rural areas where hospitals used to be?

  120. 120.

    Citizen Alan

    @sab: I have not read anything about the verdict beyond what’s posted here, but generally, punitive damages awards are not dischargeable in bankruptcy so long the underlying cause of action was based on willful or malicious conduct.

  122. 122.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Citizen Alan: Oh, I read about this somewhere: an entire genre of RWNJ films that are little more than a crappy trailer.  The actual film slaps in a bunch of newsreel footage, maybe some bits of reality TV, and that’s it.  So really, it’s just another grift.

  123. 123.

    Citizen Alan

    @Poe Larity: You know what would be hilarious? If some of these a-holes lie about their gun collections and get busted for it. Lying on your bankruptcy filings for the purpose of concealing assets can bet you federal perjury charges.

  124. 124.

    Gravenstone

    @Another Scott: That’s some fucking Ignoble prize level investigation there. Seriously, comparing death rates in people who’ve seen a 37 year old movie versus those who’ve seen a month old one made sense to who, exactly?

  130. 130.

    mrmoshpotato

    BREAKING: The Select Committee subpoenas individuals and organizations linked to the violent attack on the Capitol:• Proud Boys International, L.L.C.• Henry “Enrique” Tarrio• Oath Keepers• Elmer Stewart Rhodes• Robert Patrick Lewis/1st Amendment Praetorian— January 6th Committee (@January6thCmte) November 23, 2021

    LLC? WTF? You gotta be shitting me.

  141. 141.

    Chetan Murthy

    @frosty: It’s great isn’t it?  I periodically make shredded Mexican chicken for enchiladas and such: the instant pot makes it so easy, and the chicken comes out so *juicy* and easy-to-shred!  I use a stupidly simple recipe, and certainly should do a better job of finding a more-authentic one, but it’s so easy-to-do.  I think I might never again purchase a burrito, they’re so easy to make! [confession: I don’t make my own tortillas]

  142. 142.

    Another Scott

    @hueyplong:

    Anyway, I read Lindell's complaint.

    tl;dr:

    * This is not an actual lawsuit

    * The court already said it wouldn't hear this stuff

    * It's a huge grab-bag of conspiracies, most of which have been known to be false for an entire year now

    * An actual lawyer wrote this

    Caveat emptor.

    — Brad Heath (@bradheath) November 24, 2021

    (via Popehat)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  144. 144.

    mrmoshpotato

    @frosty:

    I just used ours tonight to cook the chicken for jambalaya. It comes out easy to shred which makes it great for a dish like this. 

    Pressure cooked?

  149. 149.

    Chetan Murthy

    @frosty:

    I’m a noob

    IKR?  it makes pressure-cooking a *complete* doddle.  I make mexican chicken, black beans, spanish rice, red beans (for red beans and rice), veggie soup, all just …. trivialities.  You just assemble the ingredients (ok ok, maybe saute the meats and onion/garlic) and set the pressure-cooker timer, and bob’s your uncle!

  151. 151.

    burnspbesq

    @karen marie:

    I’ll be surprised if they’re ever required to pay a cent.  These verdicts will be appealed, the jury award will be greatly reduced, if not thrown out.

    what’s you basis for that belief? Are any findings of fact clearly erroneous? Did the judge abuse his discretion in any rulings on admissibility of evidence? Was the jury incorrectly instructed on the law?

    Come on. Don’t just make shit up.

  154. 154.

    Chetan Murthy

    @NotMax: oh wow!  I stopped eating red meat ages ago, or I’d be so down with that!  As it is I can only be jealous of (and happy for) you!

  155. 155.

    sdhays

    @Steve in the ATL: That’s what I thought, but if the Court is actually taking that wording seriously, I figured there must be some legal nuance that alluded decidedly “not a lawyer” me.

  157. 157.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kayla Rudbek: Nearly 30 years on the Court making decisions that you would probably tend to agree with and Breyer gets cancelled because of a few remarks and not resigning?  Cool.

  158. 158.

    ian

    @sab:

    Real late to the thread, but Clinton, Schumer, and Biden all voted for that bill.  Not sure blaming it on Bush’s people is fair.  The bankruptcy bill was bad for debtors, good for creditors.

    Bad look for the Democratic party.  Hope we take up reforming that when we have more seats.

  159. 159.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Omnes Omnibus: It’s understandable that people are … rather pissed-off at Breyer, just as we are at Cinemansion.  They’re quite possibly the accidental executioners of our democracy, and it sure seems that they just don’t give a damn.

    Also: over at LG&M (where, so I understand, there are lawyers — like you) there seems to be a consensus that these SCOTUS justices don’t actually have a very hard job — so what really matters is the partisan balance.  It’s less and less a “court” and more and more a “last-resort legislature”, making up their own justifications for new laws they enact.  On that assessment, Breyer is toying with giving up one of our seats on that “Guardian Council”, and we all have a right to be pretty pissed-off.

  160. 160.

    Tony Jay

    Late back to the thread, but still…

    ‘De Pfeffel Pig’ – I am so jealous I didn’t think of this one. Brilliant.

    “Spodes of the Party” – I knew you beautiful people would get that reference, and that’s what counts.

  161. 161.

    Barry

    @Chetan Murthy: “On that assessment, Breyer is toying with giving up one of our seats on that “Guardian Council”, and we all have a right to be pretty pissed-off.”

     

    there is also a belief that 6-3 is worse than 5-4, and that 7-2 would be worse than 6-3.  At 7-2, there could be 2 GOP justices who “won’t go there”, but the other 5 win.

Comments are closed.