Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

“That’s what the insurrection act is for!”

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

We won’t go back.

Let’s show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Nikki Haley, who can’t acknowledge ‘slavery’, is a pathetic shill.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

Pelosi: “He either is stupid, or he thinks the rest of us are.” Why not both?

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

I also would like a pony to improve my balloon juice experience.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Countdown

Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Countdown

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Speaking of really big turkeys, Peter Doocey is baaack!

Yay, drayage!

Reader Interactions

222Comments

  1. 1.

    debbie

    We all know the oil companies are doing the same thing just to keep gas prices as high as possible. Is there any sort of fee or consequence that can be imposed on them?

  3. 3.

    matt the somewhat reasonable

    Biden’s pretty nice. If it was me I’d make sure that reporter didn’t get to come back.

  4. 4.

    Betty Cracker

    I love Ms. Psaki, but maybe it’s time to stop calling on Doocey, and when Fox News (and any latter day Jake Tappers who clutch pearls about the ostracization of their “sister organization“) squawk, explain why in that patented Psaki clear, no-nonsense way. Because notwithstanding that we get a thrill from the daily spectacle of Psaki squashing that little bug, the Fox News message gets amplified. And make no mistake, Fox News is destroying America.

  7. 7.

    p.a.

    @Angry_Staffer

    Since announcing a $100 per container per day “Dwell Fee,” the ports of LA have seen a 33% reduction in aging cargo. I don’t want to say companies were slow-walkindemand—and prices—but it kinda sounds like they were slow-walking this to raise demand and prices.

    Crapitalism!

  13. 13.

    zhena gogolia

    @different-church-lady: Last night I dreamed that I was sitting in the front row, and I said, “We love you, Jen Psaki. We are so fortunate to have you.” She was grateful. I hardly ever have such nice dreams.

  15. 15.

    lowtechcyclist

    Here’s the Walmart CEO thanking the Biden administration for helping fix some of the supply chain issues.

    That’s one to keep around and rub in the RWNJs’ faces.

  17. 17.

    debbie

    I’m working my way through this vintage film of some of my heroes.

    Rare Film of Monet, Renoir, Rodin and Degas

    Fine art enthusiasts will appreciate these fascinating 100-year-old film clips of four of the most celebrated artists in history; Claude Monet, Pierre-Auguste Renoir, Auguste Rodin, and Edgar Degas. In 1915, with the newly innovated film camera, a young Russian-born, French actor named Sacha Guitry captured some of France’s greatest artists and authors.

  18. 18.

    Betty Cracker

    @Another Scott: Good point, so yank their press credentials already. They’re not a news organization. Fox News is a white grievance propaganda mill that demonstrably makes people dumber and less informed, and they should be treated as such.

  21. 21.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    From the daily plague thread.

    I know 2 of the 5% of fed workers who haven’t been vaccinated. Both are RWNJs. One keeps a lid on it but he’s also a retired Navy chief who worked in medical for 20 years but gives the same song and dance “it’s experimental” blah blah blah crap when asked about vaccination. I can’t imagine he’s got any kind of leg to stand on when asking for “an accommodation” which in fed-speak is “I want an excuse to not get vaccinated but still hold onto by Club Fed gig.”

    The other is a total GQP, conspiracy theory crank. He’s eligible to retire and I know our management wishes he’d go. I’m guessing they are dragging their heels on any “accommodation” he’s asked for. He’s full time remote, assuming we all ever go back into the office but we’ve been told that isn’t a factor in trying to weasel out of getting vaccinated.

    I’d fire both their sorry asses. Fortunately, I’m not physically near either of them and it’s doubtful we’ll all ever be in the same room again. I know if that was in the offing, I’d tell my management in no uncertain terms I won’t be in the same room with anybody who got “an accommodation” and thus, are plague vectors.

  22. 22.

    Quinerly

    @rikyrah: thanks!

    Not a done deal yet. Close on or before 12/8. A few things came up on the inspection. Get the results of the radon test today. I’m very thrilled about this move, whether this house or another one out here. Covid and quarantining truly changed me. Time to start a new chapter. Have a great day!

  26. 26.

    germy

    NEW: Inflation is being blamed on workers and government spending. The real culprit? Corporate greed.

    In our new episode of The Class Room we dug into financial reports to investigate the REAL reason prices are going up.

    Hint: corporate profits have never been higher. pic.twitter.com/mPmCeDDNiJ

    — More Perfect Union (@MorePerfectUS) November 23, 2021

  27. 27.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    I agree on Fox but not on the politics of focusing on media. I think normies perceive that as a pissing match. Obama tried it with his first press secretary and I don’t think it was at all worthwhile. Attacks on media resonate with normie GOP voters- not normie Dem voters.

    There should be criticism of Fox as a legitimate news org but the President is the wrong critic. If he’s fighting with Fox and the rest join Fox (and they will) then he’s fighting with Fox and not pushing his agenda. If Biden can just get his D numbers higher his poll number will go up. He needs squishy D’s and D leaners.

  28. 28.

    Ken

    @zhena gogolia: Last night I dreamed that I was sitting in the front row

    To my mild disappointment, this did not continue “and I turned around and sprayed mace at people who asked stupid questions”.

  30. 30.

    NotMax

    TCM alert: mini Divine-a-thon beginning 2:15 a.m. EST on Saturday – Lust in the Dust , followed by Polyester.

  31. 31.

    Another Scott

    @germy:

    The US Government is an insurance company with an army – Paul Krugman

    Mr. Potash is right, of course, that the press is criminally incompetent at putting government numbers in context. Dean Baker at CEPR/Beat The Press has a lot to say about that.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  32. 32.

    NotMax

    Sobering long-ish read.

    Huang Xueqin, who publicly supported a woman when she accused a professor of sexual assault, was arrested in September. Wang Jianbing, who helped women report sexual harassment, was detained along with her. Neither has been heard from since. Meanwhile, several other women’s rights activists have faced smear campaigns on social media and some have seen their accounts shuttered.
    [snip]
    In a sign of how threatening the #MeToo movement and activism on women’s rights is to Chinese authorities, many activists have been dismissed as tools of foreign interference — a label used to discredit their concerns as fabrications by China’s enemies meant to destabilize it.

    The ongoing crackdown has mostly targeted activists with little fame or clout and who often worked with marginalized groups.
    [snip]
    The charge is vague and often used against political dissidents. Huang’s and Wang’s families have not heard from them since they were detained and are not able to contact them — another tactic often deployed in political cases.
    [snip]
    …efforts to counter activism on women’s issues have increased this year, including by nationalist, pro-government influencers, some of who seem to have the blessing of authorities and have been praised by state media.

    In a span of a few weeks in the spring, influencers with millions of followers launched a wave of attacks against women’s rights activists on Weibo, one of China’s leading social media platforms. They accused them of being anti-China and of being backed by foreign forces, without evidence. Such allegations have often been leveled at protest movements, including the pro-democracy one in Hong Kong that Beijing has relentlessly tried to stamp out.

    By late April, roughly a dozen activists and nonprofits found their accounts restricted from posting temporarily or permanently suspended. It’s not clear why in all cases, but one activist who had lost her account, Liang Xiaowen, shared a notice from Weibo that said her account had “shared illegal and harmful information.”

    Even Zhou Xiaoxuan, who accused well-known state TV host Zhu Jun of groping her when she was an intern and was once praised for her courage in speaking up, faced a campaign of harassment and can no longer post on her public-facing accounts.

    On Weibo, users send her private messages such as, “Get out of China, I feel disgusting living with a type of person like you, on the same piece of land.” Another called her a piece of “toilet paper” that “foreigners would use and then throw away.” Source

  33. 33.

    Soprano2

    @Betty Cracker: I would have questioned Ducey about whether he criticized where TFG spent Thanksgiving. I also would have pointed out that Biden goes there every year to see friends and family. What a petty question to ask, especially after 4 years of TFG. I agree, she should quit calling on him, at least for a few weeks.

  35. 35.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: I agree the president shouldn’t lead the charge — fighting with a gnat like Doocey is too small a task for him. I guess you could argue that if Psaki takes the issue up, that’s the same thing as the POTUS taking on Fox, but on the other hand, she’s the press secretary, so arguably it is appropriate for her to address a fundamental problem with the American press.

    You’re right that Biden needs squishy Democrats and D-leaners to buck up, and I think a lot of that will be addressed one way or another by factors mostly outside of Biden’s control, e.g., gas prices, COVID, inflation, etc. But there’s a sense of despair among committed Ds too — I feel it myself a lot of the time. Michelle Goldberg wrote a great column about it this week that I may highlight in a post later if I have time.

    The column had nothing to do with Fox News per se; it was about the structural barriers that are smothering democracy via minoritarian rule and a sense that they’re inexorable and how it’s tempting for people to check out in that environment. The disinformation problem is related to that, I think.

  37. 37.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    It’s frustrating. This is the best economy of my lifetime and one would never know it reading any news source. I look in any direction and I see “boom”, even rolling in higher prices. I have a working and middle class client base. They are working and spending. We have a new real estate development project- 150k houses, which is what they’re all looking for and can’t find. There has not been a new residential real estate development in this county since 2009.  It’s fucking humming right along but the media coverage? Doom and gloom.

  39. 39.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    It’s frustrating. This is the best economy of my lifetime and one would never know it reading any news source. I look in any direction and I see “boom”, even rolling in higher prices. I have a working and middle class client base. They are working and spending. We have a new real estate development project- 150k houses, which is what they’re all looking for and can’t find. There has not been a new residential real estate development in this county since 2009.  It’s fucking humming right along but the media coverage? Doom and gloom.

  40. 40.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    That container storage fee fixing the Port of LA problems reminds me of what I see in my job; a lot places bitching and moaning about why aren’t we done repairing their machines because it’s been a month and we when we look into it, the customer never shipped it to us.

  41. 41.

    Another Scott

    Meanwhile, yet more bad news for Joe Biden [/DougJBalloon]:

    CalculatedRiskBlog:

    In the week ending November 20, the advance figure for seasonally adjusted initial claims was 199,000, a decrease of 71,000 from the previous week’s revised level. This is the lowest level for initial claims since November 15, 1969 when it was 197,000. The previous week’s level was revised up by 2,000 from 268,000 to 270,000. The 4-week moving average was 252,250, a decrease of 21,000 from the previous week’s revised average. This is the lowest level for this average since March 14, 2020 when it was 225,500. The previous week’s average was revised up by 500 from 272,750 to 273,250.

    It just keeps getting worser and worser…

    ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  42. 42.

    Steeplejack

    I’m having a pleasantly slow morning after my grand day out yesterday—pre-op medical tests on the other side of the DMV followed by lunch at the Copper Canyon Grill in Glenarden, MD (pretty good but not destination dining). I’ve got a phone appointment at 10:30 this morning to go over the test results and the preparations for the (minor) operation on December 7, and that concludes my engagements until next Monday.

    I de-invited myself from the Sighthound Hall mob’s T-Day in Rehoboth Beach. When I talked to my brother on Sunday to go over some minor details, I found out that accommodations are going to be tight because two or three additional people were invited, so I took myself out of the mix. I was a little lukewarm about going anyway, and I don’t want to be around strangers who may or may not be vaccinated and/​or following safe COVID practices. I’ll have something tasty here at home and chill out. Might get motivated to make a mincemeat pie, but maybe not.

  44. 44.

    mrmoshpotato

    “This is a time to put politics aside, spend time with your loved ones and talk about what you’re grateful for…He will conduct his work from wherever he is,” White House press sec. Jen Psaki says when questioned about Pres. Biden leaving for Thanksgiving.

    I’m grateful for not having 4 more years of the Kremlin’s orange fascist shitstain in the White House!  But I’d be even more grateful for 0 years of the Kremlin’s orange fascist shitstain in the White House!

    Am I doing this right?

  45. 45.

    Geminid

    Not exactly related to today’s topic, but Ragnarok Lobster, a few days ago:

      I’m gonna take the rest of the day off because I’m not in the mood to hear white people blaming white supremacy on Democratic messaging.

    @electricbrotha Nov. 19 2021

  48. 48.

    debbie

    @different-church-lady:

    And not only the creative process. I was unpleasantly surprised, years after he died, that there are no photographs of my father not holding a cigarette (what ended up killing him, of course). Kinda made me sad, to be honest.

  49. 49.

    NotMax

    @mrmoshpotato

    Counting the number of turkeys pardoned so far during Biden’s first year in office can be done on one hand.
    Counting the number of turkeys pardoned during Dolt 45’s last year in office: “We’re gonna need another centipede.”
    .

  50. 50.

    WaterGirl

    @Steeplejack: Yeah, my niece hosts the family holidays at her house.  This year, besides hosting the 10 people in my family, they are including 7 people from her husband’s side of the family.

    10 people -> 17

    4 households -> 8 households

    no idea of vaccination status or habits of the additional 7 people

    Um, no.  Definitely not going to that!

  55. 55.

    Kay

    I already had one Thanksgiving (my daughter is on call that day so we had her and her husband and the baby and some others) and now I’m getting ready for the second, which is “for” my youngest child who missed the early one because he was at school.

    I don’t think I’ll do two again. The part I didn’t think about is that me and my husband are at both of them. I was thinking of it as “these people this day and these people the other”. I don’t know how I missed this overlap :)

  56. 56.

    Betty Cracker

    Perhaps foolishly, I’m going to a family TG shindig where the vast majority are vaxxed but that will also be attended by three people whom I know are unvaxxed, i.e., my knucklehead brother and his two kids. (They all had mild/asymptomatic cases of COVID and recovered last year.)

    The celebration will be outside, and I will maintain physical distance from the plague vectors. I’m uneasy about it, but I’m willing to take a calculated risk.

  58. 58.

    Steeplejack

    @different-church-lady, @debbie:

    Even for some of us oldsters it’s easy to forget how common smoking used to be. When I went to work at a medium-sized daily newspaper in 1972 a good 25-35% of the people smoked at their desks in the open newsroom. That’s ancient hist0ry now.

  59. 59.

    different-church-lady

    @Kay: At this point I’d say Biden’s biggest political weakness is his unwillingness to work the refs in even the slightest. You just know a Bush administration would have been selling an Afghanistan pull-out as a rampaging success before it even began. The other side is utterly shameless but Biden just ignores the asymetry.

  61. 61.

    Quinerly

    @debbie: thanks! About 12 miles from Santa Fe. Off 285 on the road to Lamy, NM.

    Big move after being in St Louis almost 40 years. So funny when l think about St. Louis was supposed to be a “stop” for law school on the way to somewhere else…. “That’s life.”

  62. 62.

    Kay

    @different-church-lady:

    I don’t know anymore. I thought the media response to Afghanistan was absolutely insanely pro-war. I’m not sure what you do with that. It was as if he pulled out in the middle of WWII. Just so jarring, since we all fucking KNOW none of these people had said a word about Afghanistan for years. I had no idea it was so central to their view of America.

    They knew it too. They did the pivot almost immediately. The pivot is when they say they don’t object to the policy, they object to the execution of the policy. It’s akin to how the Clinton email scandal they flogged like lunatics became not about the emails per se, but instead about how she handled the email scandal.

    What does one do with this? Fuck if I know. You try, right? You keep saying wages are up and unemployment is down and people are spending like crazy. Say that over and over and over until it sinks in to the people who don’t follow “politics”.

  63. 63.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @prostratedragon:  You all know that Thansgiving is some English thing that was done long before the colonisation of America.  Perhaps drop the pilgrims fleeing religious persecution so they could persecute others (like native Americans) nonsense.

  64. 64.

    eclare

    @WaterGirl:   My Aunt is hosting nine for Thanksgiving.  I know for sure eight are vaxxed, so I am going.  I got my booster over two weeks ago, so I feel ok about it.

  66. 66.

    The Thin Black Duke

    Good morning, folks. Here’s an essay I did on The Incredible Shrinking Donald Trump. With everything else that’s going on, TFG is the least of our problems. What’s worrying me is the jury for the Armaud Arbery lynching taking so damned long to give us a verdict.

  67. 67.

    eclare

    @Steeplejack:   When I first started working in a big office after college in 1991, managers could smoke in their individual offices with the door closed.  There was one manager, when she opened her door, it was like Cheech and Chong just got out of their van.

  68. 68.

    Betty Cracker

    @NotMax: Excellent idea! But it’s a (vaxxed!) wingnut-hosted event, so I dare not suggest it lest we find ourselves assigned to “freedom” and “commie” tables, the latter of which would be occupied by my sister and me alone. (On the other hand, more champagne for us!)

  71. 71.

    Steeplejack

    @WaterGirl:

    My brother and his husband already had breakthrough COVID cases, which kicked their asses for a week or so. I try not to engage in “profiling,” but the BIL is somewhat younger than my brother and has a group of young friends, some from his native Brazil. Lots of unknowns (to me) about vaccinations, health-insurance coverage, work status. (E.g., are they working retail and mingling with a lot of strangers?) And of course younger people seem to be more accepting of risk. I think the “extra” people are friends of the BIL, possibly Thanksgiving “orphans” with no family nearby. It’s laudable to invite them, but it’s easier for aged Uncle Steep to just opt out of a potentially dicey situation.

  72. 72.

    Miss Bianca

    @debbie: My initial read of this headline was “Rare Film of Monet, Renoir, Rodin, and Dogs.”

    And I thought, “hey, I’d watch the hell out of that film clip!”

  74. 74.

    Anne Laurie

    @different-church-lady: Apparently cigarettes were a vital part of the creative process.

    Don’t laugh — nicotine is an effective, if deadly, form of ‘medication’ for those of us with ADD/ADHD.

    Epidemiologists say it’s *not* a coincidence that coffee chains like Starbucks took off as more & more public spaces banned smoking.  (Same thing for adult ADD medical diagnoses; people needed prescription meds when they couldn’t smoke a pack a day any more.)

  76. 76.

    Kay

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    I’m worried about the verdict too. I think the defense got the jury they wanted. At least they have something to work with in this one. There’s a whole host of charges available.

    A nine-count indictment charges all three with one count of malice murder, four counts of felony murder, two counts of aggravated assault, one count of false imprisonment and one count of criminal attempt to commit false imprisonment.

    If they’re found guilty on the lesser felonies that opens up felony murder. They have a complex set of issues to decide, because “malice murder” also interlocks with the other acts- the false imprisonment.

    Felony murder applies when someone who has no plans to kill intentionally commits another felony and a person dies as a result. The person must be convicted of the underlying felony to be found guilty of felony murder.

  80. 80.

    debbie

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    Great piece! I can’t not be reminded of Glenn Close’s “I will not be ignored” promise in Fatal Attraction. This is what I think we’re in for.

    I also will never get over the interview I watched with a Trump supporter who said she was angry with Trump because he hadn’t hurt the people she wanted him to hurt badly enough. Feelings like that go beyond cult to sociopathology.

  81. 81.

    Geminid

    @Kay: Media narratives notwithstanding, there is also the possibility that people will see their own increased economic security and that of the people around them, and believe the evidence of their own eyes.

  82. 82.

    Nelle

    @Steeplejack: In the early ’70’s,  i was an aide at an inpatient psch hospital.  Chain smoking all icer, including sitting in on group tgerapy sessions where some patients lit the next cigarette off the last one and just kept puffing away.  I’ve wondered if my susceptibility to winter respiratory illness was an outcome of two years if heavy secondhand smoke.  I’m doing much better with masks and the isolation of ’20 and ’21.

  83. 83.

    zhena gogolia

    @Geminid: This is what I’m hoping.

    Doocy in that clip up top worrying about the middle-class families struggling to put a turkey on their tables. What tripe.

  87. 87.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @debbie: It’s John Cole’s “tire rims and anthrax” analogy. You can’t have a rational dialogue with these people, you just can’t.

  88. 88.

    Betty Cracker

    @The Thin Black Duke: Good read! I’m not as convinced as you are that Trump is toast politically, but maybe he is. If so, is that a good thing? Lord knows it would be a blessing beyond measure for that howling void of whiny ego to fade from our collective consciousness. I’ve never been so sick of someone!

    But on the other hand, if he’s supplanted by a smarter and therefore more dangerous authoritarian sociopath like DeSantis, that would be much worse, IMO. Maybe the best thing would be if Trump ran again and lost by an even wider margin, which might finally prompt the GOP to reconstitute itself into a less fascist-forward organization. I honestly don’t know.

  89. 89.

    debbie

    @zhena gogolia:

    I linked to a Twitter thread the other day where people posted photos of overflowing turkey store displays in the comments. There were also photos of the price tags confirming Thanksgiving products weren’t that much more expensive this year.

  90. 90.

    Kay

    @eclare:

    If they can’t convict these people it will be profound for me, just as a citizen. We’ll be accepting a situation where we’re under a non-state actor police force, one where we don’t even know which people have the “right” to act as police and which don’t and we get no notice until they’re pursuing us for an “arrest”, oh, and it could be an “arrest” or it could be just meting out the sentence, because they’re fake police so there are no rules. It’s intolerable to me.

  92. 92.

    Fair Economist

    @Geminid: Unfortunately people have no trouble believing they are doing well but most people aren’t. That’s exactly what they are telling pollsters right now. About 2/3 say they are doing well and 2/3 say the country is doing poorly.

  93. 93.

    Subsole

    @rikyrah:

    Now, now. Give them a break. They had all those optics pieces lined up about them uppity Democrats ruining Christmas.

    Now they’re going to have to work doubles at the bhullshit factory coming up with a replacement line.

  94. 94.

    debbie

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    A lot of my family supported TFG, and it wouldn’t surprise me if any of them still did. I knew they were conservatives and we often argued politics, but I never expected the level of their delusion.

  96. 96.

    Betty Cracker

    Update from TPM on the jury deliberations:

    The jury has been in deliberations for about an hour. They just sent a note to the judge asking to review at least one piece of video evidence, specifically footage taken by one of the defendants, William “Roddie” Bryan Jr. They’ve asked to watch different versions of the requested video — a slowed down version and a high definition version — and they’ve asked to review each version three times.

    The jury has also requested to review the 9-1-1 call made by defendant Gregory McMichael.

    Huh. Not sure what to make of that. I thought both were pretty damning.

  97. 97.

    Redshift

    @Steeplejack:

    Even for some of us oldsters it’s easy to forget how common smoking used to be. When I went to work at a medium-sized daily newspaper in 1972 a good 25-35% of the people smoked at their desks in the open newsroom. That’s ancient hist0ry now.

    I’m old enough to remember some of that, and when I visited Apollo 11 Mission Control, I was still struck by the fact that every workstation had a built-in ashtray, except for the one for the flight surgeon.

  98. 98.

    Geminid

    @Fair Economist: Right now, the economy and its broader social context are still in a state of flux, and people are still unsettled. I think Demoratic initiatives already set in motion this year will result in sustainable economic growth, though. So I will be more interested in how people regard the economy eight months from now.

  100. 100.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @matt the somewhat reasonable: Actually, I’d invite him into the prez limo, take him to the food kitchen, then give him the choice: Start serving or walk home, motherfucker. Oh, and we’ve confiscated your cell phone and suspended your credit cards…for national security reasons…so no Uber, son.

    Who knows, the reporter, even Douchey, might learn something.

  101. 101.

    Kay

    @Fair Economist:

    It’s just amazing, isn’t it? The power of a propaganda campaign. Hey, I hear it too! I’m getting on a new roof wait list that is one year long in a county where the bulk of people make in the 30k to 40k range while the NYTimes tells me no one can afford food.

    The people who Doocy says “can’t afford a turkey” are the same working class people here who can afford all the other things they’re buying, whether it’s a roof, or a washing machine or a 10 year old used car. It doesn’t make sense.

  102. 102.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Betty Cracker: But there’s a sense of despair among committed Ds too — I feel it myself a lot of the time.

    I don’t do despair, but I gotta admit I have a real sense of fatigue and depression from the stasis.  Build Back Better and the voting rights bills have been at the top of the agenda since freakin’ April if not before.  And here we are, on Thanksgiving eve, and we’re still at ‘what will Manchinema agree to’ just like we’ve been, all the way through spring, summer, and most of the fall.

    Sure, there was brief movement with infrastructure, but that was a gimme.   I don’t know if the House passing BBB was a gimme or not, but all along the House has been an easier lift than the Senate.  So that’s felt more like the illusion of progress than actual progress.

    And no amount of boasting about what we’ve already done will help us in November 2022 if the GOP gerrymanders are allowed to stand.  And preventing that means Manchinema agreeing to some sort of filibuster cut-out for the voting rights bill, which seemed a lot more likely in April than it does anymore.

    So yeah, I’m a committed Democrat. And when I think about the political situation, I’m about as cheery as Marvin the Paranoid Android.

    And I’m getting to the point where I think Schumer should just call for a Senate vote on the BBB that passed the House, and put those two fuckers on the spot.  It probably wouldn’t work, but there’s always a chance.

  105. 105.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    That I don’t think means anything. It really is complex because of how the charges interlock because they interlock rationally. If they find THIS then that leads to finding THAT and if it doesn’t lead to THAT they have to justify (at least to themselves) why it doesn’t.

  107. 107.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Another Scott:

    In the week ending November 20, the advance figure for seasonally adjusted initial claims was 199,000, a decrease of 71,000 from the previous week’s revised level. This is the lowest level for initial claims since November 15, 1969 when it was 197,000.

    And think about the fact that the U.S. population is ~330 million, versus ~200 million then.  199K now is really a LOT better than 197K then.

  108. 108.

    Subsole

    @Betty Cracker:

    Assuming they tried, what can they credibly reconstitute themselves into?

    We own healthcare. We own civil rights. We own public safety. We own education. We are rapidly taking business/economics.

    They have ceded the field on everything but “being Rush Limbaugh”. What else is there for them to claim? They abandoned everything for a pocketful of mumbles and a mouthful of Trump.

  109. 109.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @lowtechcyclist: If RWNJ’s boycott Walmart, where will they shop? Dollar General, I guess.

    It is actually a sad commentary on their lives. .

    Oh well, sucks to be them.

  110. 110.

    Steeplejack

    @Steeplejack:

    To add to my “profiling” comment, lest people think I’m being overly finicky or paranoid:

    My brother’s partner is a schoolteacher, which could have been the vector for their breakthrough COVID cases, except that later it came out that he got infected when he went out clubbing for his birthday. He went with a friend who is also a teacher—but at a different school—and who also caught COVID. Hmm, from school or from the club? We report, you decide. ? So the BIL is a known risk-taker; why should I not assume the same about his friends?

    (This occasioned a bit of drama in the family, needless to say.)

  111. 111.

    Mike in NC

    We have friends in Tampa Bay who wanted to visit here for Thanksgiving but decided not to because Floriduh remains such an unvaccinated mess. This year we’ve been to Boston, Washington DC, and Key West. Everything is broken: hotels, airlines, restaurants, and car rental agencies. All are understaffed and overworked because of a corporate demand for profits above all else. Twice we landed at an airport and sat for an hour because there were too few ground crew and baggage handlers and the gate wasn’t ready. Prices are high because we’re being gouged for higher profit.

  113. 113.

    Subsole

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    Oh, nononono.

    These people don’t do ACTUAL boycotts. They do gaming chud boycotts. Where you poast a whole bunch about how you “won’t support the soyification of America” – and then go buy the game anyway. Because this isn’t principle or politics. It’s a fashion statement.

  115. 115.

    JaneE

    FWIW, we were on the road last night.  It has been a long time since I have seen so much truck traffic.  If I am not mistaken, we passed what would have been called a convoy back in the day.  About 10 semis, one after the other.  If I had to guess, at least 50% of the vehicles were semis, and on parts of the way it was way more than that.  The rest stop was full of trucks too, and the place they park at Cramer Junction was also packed and they had trucks just on the side of the road too.  A lot of goods were on the road last night.

  116. 116.

    NotMax

    @Subsole

    I would expect a quite scaled down version at Elba-lago this year. From the article then:

    The world received a glimpse of the glamorous dinner inside Mar-a-Lago on Thanksgiving night.
    [snip]
    The White House said music from Phantom of the Opera played in the background while guests snapped pictures.

    “Memo to kitchen:

    NO DARK MEAT.”

  117. 117.

    Nelle

    @Kay: It seems that the price of gas went down during the pandemic and multitudes had the money to run out and buy these bulbouse, testosterone trucks for 50 to 70,000.  Now they are outraged, outraged that the price of gas has gone up.   They had the money for the truck but not for any variation in gas price?

    Meanwhile, I feel like a mouse among elephants trying to see around them.

  118. 118.

    Betty Cracker

    @Subsole: Well, they could try going back to classical conservatism. It was never my cup of tea, but it’s a genuine ethos with a framework of principles. There are real disagreements among Americans on all kinds of issues. Those debates play out 100% within the Democratic Party now because we’re the only one of the two parties who take governing seriously.

  120. 120.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Subsole: They abandoned everything for a pocketful of mumbles and a mouthful of Trump.

    All lies and jest, but a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.

  121. 121.

    Subsole

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Maybe. I’m sure the media will anoint him the next Paul Ryan.

    Notice how that keeps happening? How every couple years or so, the media has to keep finding a new blue-eyed wonderbreadboy who’s gonna save conservatism from itself?

    Were I a journalist, it would bother me that I have to keep fishing the prettiest turd out of the septic tank every three years so my bosses can hold it up in front of a camera as proof that the national shitbucket isn’t actually a shitbucket.

    Guess that’s why I ain’t knocking down those CNN dollars.

  122. 122.

    Subsole

    @NotMax:

    I appreciate the chuckle Elba Lago gave me. Thanks.

    Also…wtf? Phantom of the Opera?

    Gawd, they are such weird little mutants…

  123. 123.

    Nelle

    @JaneE: We drove to and from Arizona last May and I was struck by the increase in semi traffic then.  We live about a mile from where I35 and I80 are combined to go around Des Moines and it seems solid with semi trucks.  It makes me miss railroads.  And think that we’re going to need a lot more infrastructure money allocated.   The roads are taking a beating.

  125. 125.

    frosty

    @Quinerly: ​Congratulations on the new house! Now that you won’t have to road trip to New Mexico, what’s next? Spend more time locally seeing places you couldn’t get to?​

  127. 127.

    Fair Economist

    @Kay: I was watching one of the news channels when I was down with my mother earlier today (probably CNN). When an initial claims report comes out showing the best economy in all history, at least in one aspect, what do they talk about?

    Biden’s low poll numbers. Which are still better than Trump’s but they still talk about how bad they are.

    So, yeah, propaganda. Clever; not outright lies; but still propaganda.

  128. 128.

    Kay

    @Nelle:

    They couldn’t afford the trucks either, whatever the price of gas. If you make 40k a year you can’t afford a 70k truck, unless you’re planning on living in it. It’s impossible to get them out of it too unless they file bankruptcy because there’s a “deficiency” between the used value of the truck and the loan they took on it. They only do it once, then they learn.

  129. 129.

    Subsole

    @Betty Cracker:

    They could try, but…at this point we have a better record than them. We beat them even by their own metrics.

    Hell, I remain convinced that the reason the media/conservatives flipped-the-eff-out on ol’ Slick Billy J was that he proved, conclusively, that you don’t need to elect Republicans to get everything Republicans promise you.

    Except the bigotry. That was the one thing we decided not to deliver. It is also the one thing their voters punished us for.

    So I guess they could try…but there’s no future for them there.

  130. 130.

    Fair Economist

    @Nelle: Remember as the networks rant about the the supply chain “crisis”, that the supply chain is actually moving *more* goods than ever before. The “crisis” is that it’s only managing to beat the previous records by 5% when the economy could support 10%.

  131. 131.

    Cameron

    @The Thin Black Duke: That’s exactly what I think.  Reviewing the tape sounds like a bullshit move: “Well, actually, if you play it backwards and upside down, you can see how threatening he really was.  We have all furrowed our brows Susan Collins-style and agree we have no choice but to acquit.”  I hope I’m completely wrong.

  132. 132.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Betty Cracker: You should make a toast “to everyone who did the responsible thing and got vaccinated.  Public health means exactly that.  And this has been a great opportunity for everyone to show their character.”

  134. 134.

    Kay

    @Fair Economist:

    He does have low poll numbers though- because people think the “economy” is bad- not as to them to but as to other people.

    I don’t know what to think anymore. The reason they’re doing well is because other people are too. Where do they think their money comes from? WTF? If you’re a retailer you’re not doing well in isolation. Someone is buying the stuff.

    I think we have to go back to basic concepts. I think it’s hysterical they did 6 months on “supply” (the docks) and only now are looking at demand- what IS all this shit at the docks and how are people who can’t afford a turkey demanding it?

  135. 135.

    NotMax

    @Fair Economist

    “I’ll believe it when I don’t have to haunt six stores just to find Mountain Dew and pork rinds.”

    //

    (Autocorrect attempted to make that Minyan Dew, which is a whole ‘nother level of weird.)

  136. 136.

    Ohio Mom

    @NotMax: A quick look at your link, there’s a photo of supposedly observant, Shabbat-keeping Ivanka at the Mar-a-Lago Thanksgiving table, think she’s sticking to the salad? It always irked me when she and her family were presented as frum (“super-religious” for you readers not conversant in Yiddish), they so obviously aren’t.

    Sign me,

    Eternally irritated when “more religious” is held up as superior.

  137. 137.

    BC in Illinois

    @Quinerly:

    Big move after being in St Louis almost 40 years. So funny when l think about St. Louis was supposed to be a “stop” for law school on the way to somewhere else…. “That’s life.”

    My father, a National Bureau of Standards mathematician, said at his retirement that he was not cut out for government work. “I gave it a good try for 37 years and it didn’t work out.”

  138. 138.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Soprano2: I think people need to think very carefully before they call for rewriting self-defense laws.  In order to ensure the conviction of the next Rittenhouse, are we willing to convict spousal abuse victims?  Because that could very well be the end result.  Changing laws based on one notorious case often has wide ranging effects that proponents do not think about.

  139. 139.

    J R in WV

    I bought a pair of cornish game hens for tomorrow, and yesterday after my Doctor appointment I got a chocolate pecan pie. Gonna have a slice of that puppy right away. Just got a call to schedule my colonoscopy, end of February; hurray.

    Steak tonight, with bakers. Got Yukon Gold potatoes to mash tomorrow. Loaded up on fancy goods to some degree.​…

    ETA: Headline from The Guardian:

    Seven doctors contract Covid after attending Florida anti-vaccine summit

    Really sweet, fuck those assholes, they’re killing people and should have their licenses to practice revoked for doing shit like this!!

  140. 140.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Subsole: I think that you are being unfair to Clinton.  He came into office ready to push gays in the military and health care for all and got kneecapped.  He spent most of the rest of his time playing defense.

  141. 141.

    Kay

    @Fair Economist:

    My business is really straightforward and really local. If they do better I do better, immediately. I’m baffled how this connection got lost for the rest of the country, because even if it’s more attenuated than my thing there IS a connection. Are they not aware of that? How can they not be?

    I’m not surprised Wal Mart is thanking Biden. Wal Mart is jamming. But somehow their….customers are destitute?

    Walmart raised its outlook for the year after another surprisingly strong quarter as the largest retailer in the world flexed its scale to deal with rising costs and a snarled global supply chain.

    I’m not suprised at all, but then my customers are also Wal Mart’s customers, so I knew they were spending. I had a really good year. I don’t have really good years when everyone else has a bad one. That’s not how this works.

  143. 143.

    Soprano2

    @eclare: I started my first full-time job in 1983. We had an open office with six people in the space. Two of them were two pack a day smokers, although from what I observed one of those packs mostly burned away on the ashtray when they were on the phone! Our office manager hated that they smoked in there; when the office was painted in 1984, he cleaned the wall clock and showed us all the rag that was absolutely dingy yellow from the smoke residue. I thought they got a new clock when I saw it, that’s how much of a difference it made. I’m so glad people have to smoke outdoors now, it makes all indoor spaces much easier for me to tolerate. I cannot be around cigarette smoke more than 10-15 minutes without having allergies flare up. It’s so strange, when I was in my early-mid ’20’s I dated and lived with smokers. I think I must have reached my lifetime tolerance for cigarette smoke after that, because my allergies started manifesting when I was around 27 or so.

  144. 144.

    NotMax

    @J R in WV

    Somewhere in the labyrinth of recipe files have one for Cornish Game Hen with Grapes, cooked in the microwave and then finished (browned) in the oven.

  147. 147.

    J R in WV

    And another thing: About this gas crisis! I see tons of cars in parking lots, like Kroger’s for a big one, with the engine running while someone does the hard work of shopping for a family, while the family sits on their lazy asses playing a game on their phone listening to music. If gas costs so much, people will be turning off the engine for the hour+ it takes to shop for a family!!

    I got a tank full yesterday. It cost me $3.06 a gallon for hi-test. I will confess, that was after a $0.60 discount with my Kroger’s shopper’s card, but anyone and everyone can have one of those. And $3.66 isn’t high either!!

  148. 148.

    hueyplong

    No one knows why juries ask for things.  It can always cut 2 ways.

    It could be that there is one holdout and the others are re-running the video to say, “How the fuck else can you interpret this?”

    We just don’t know.

    The only time we know for sure is when they ask a detailed Q about the consequence of a jury instruction under certain facts.

  149. 149.

    Subsole

    @Fair Economist: I have come to a couple conclusions about the Fourth Estate.

    1. Trump was a snippy, bitchy little gossip queen. That’s why they love him so much. They are him, and he is them. Same personality. Same junior high lunchtable meangirl bullshit. When America rejected him, we also rejected THEM, and on some level I think they felt that. That’s why they move like they do when it comes to Democrats.

    2. Fox lies by commission, the rest lie by omission. They know this and have made their peace with it. There is no universe in which Jake Tapper needed to put on the cape for Billo the Clown, of all people. And yet.

    3. Functionally, the 4th Estate has gone the way of the Cop. The folks who had an obligation to stand up to the bad apples didn’t, and now the barrel has rotted.

  150. 150.

    Betty Cracker

    @Subsole: WJC and the entire Third Way movement are a great example of what I meant when I said all the genuine policy debate takes place within the Democratic Party now. There are real splits.

    I voted for Bill Clinton twice because the Republican alternatives were too hideous to contemplate. But the choice shouldn’t be between the guy who promised the “end of welfare as we know it” and the guy who ran the Willie Horton ad.

  151. 151.

    Kay

    @Fair Economist:

    Look at the bright side. If they can invent a bad economy they can invent a good one. Maybe they roll out the good one after New Years. We just need a couple to break from the herd and then they swoop around and run the other way.

    Biden has been counted out before and he’s had an incredibly successful career.

  154. 154.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: I’m having a discussion about this over on Twitter with a perceptive friend who points out that, to the general public, there are directly perceived measures of how good “the economy” is other than jobs and prices.

    For instance, there seems to be a genuine belief that the ability to effectively bully service workers is a sign of a healthy economy. For a progressive, that’s the opposite of a healthy economy–workers are desperate. But people want the workers who actually serve them to be a little desperate. Karen in the Starbucks line and Mr. Monopoly have a common interest here.

    He thinks that one is new; I’m not so sure it’s that new.

  155. 155.

    Quiltingfool

    @Redshift: My students were flabbergasted when I told them that when I was a kid almost everybody smoked and they smoked everywhere.  My mother belonged to a ladies bridge club; when she hosted it at our house the living room was blue with smoke!

    I have an ashtray she used all the time – had dolphins with open mouths (for holding the cigarette).  It’s about 60 years old!

  156. 156.

    Betty Cracker

    @Omnes Omnibus: That’s a good point. I don’t know the laws in WI, but from my layperson’s perspective in FL, removing the “duty to retreat” from self-defense laws — combined with permissive concealed carry — intolerably empowered bullies and cranks.

  157. 157.

    Soprano2

    @Geminid: Tell me what the average price of gas will be in 8 months, and I’ll tell you how people regard the economy. Unfortunately, it seems that has more to do with how people feel that most anything else.

  158. 158.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Oh, I’ll confess to it as a progressive. I never bully service workers but I got used to an unlimited supply of cheap labor at the places I frequent. They are short-handed and I have to wait longer. But it sucked for them. They were paid poorly and treated like dirt and the United States shouldn’t have adopted an economic policy based on it- it sucked.

    Biden needs a chance to show that an economy that is better for everyone is possible. That what we accepted as “markets” was not in fact markets but deliberate cheap labor policy. It is better for workers to have leverage. If that means retail prices go up in some areas, it’s still better, net.

  159. 159.

    Subsole

    @Omnes Omnibus: Totally agree. Not my intent to malign him. Dude tried. I mean, I grew up when people were still walking around in shirts that said “AIDS: kills <slur> dead” and the Party of Jesus was laughing about it.

    I respect the man for doing what he did. It may not have been enough, but sweet Christ it was better than Before.

    I just meant that he basically took the GOP’s cornbread on everything else and ate it in front of them.

    Only Obama did it better. And like Obama, he was punished because he would not put ‘Them Folks’ back in their place.

    I mean, I remember people getting the swivel-eyed redass when he went on Arsenio…

  160. 160.

    TriassicSands

    What’s up with Biden? In that clip, he sounds like a robot reading from the world’s most boring recipe. The lack of emotion, energy, whatever really hit me. This isn’t a criticism, but rather surprise at what sounded like a zombie on sleeping pills.

  162. 162.

    PST

    @debbie:

    Monet, Renoir, Rodin and Degas

    Wow! That’s something. I didn’t realize how close in age the first three were — and not that much older when filmed than I am now, despite looking like a bunch of Methuselahs. What a remarkably innovative generation they were. Seeing those scenes from 1915 reminds me that they were children during the 1848 uprisings, young men during the Franco-Prussian War.

  163. 163.

    Geminid

     

     

    @Soprano2: But I don’t think that you view the economy as a simple matter of gas prices, and people here don’t seem to either. Are we that special?

  164. 164.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Betty Cracker: One of the points that the Sisters In Law podcast women made was that the law needs to take into account a longer time period of action/behavior/context when determining causation.  All that time and effort Rittenhouse spent procuring a weapon, making statement about shooting protestors, driving to the scene etc., should be a significant part of the jury’s consideration, but as I understand it, most of these defense laws focus only on the moments of the altercation.

  165. 165.

    PST

    @Steeplejack:

    … in 1972 a good 25-35% of the people smoked at their desks in the open newsroom.

    Remember what barbershops were like? Ashtrays in every chair and often the barber worked with a cigarette hanging from his (always his in those days) lips. Nicely captured by the Coens in The Man Who Wasn’t There.

  166. 166.

    Betty Cracker

    @debbie: Changed how? That was a particularly egregious case, which is the only type the bullies and cranks can lose with the current laws. That murderer’s own girlfriend/eyewitness testified against him. There were other eyewitnesses who were shot at but not hit. He didn’t contact the cops after the shooting, etc.

    If the victim in that case had been alone in the car and the only survivor of the encounter was the murderer, no one would have been around to dispute the claim that he feared for his life. That’s the issue with the laws, IMO.

  167. 167.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    @Subsole: I think that you are being unfair to Clinton.  He came into office ready to push gays in the military and health care for all and got kneecapped.  He spent most of the rest of his time playing defense.

    He also tried to pass a BTU tax, probably with a little nudging from his VP.  That went nowhere, of course, but at least he tried to do something early about global warming.

  168. 168.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: The propaganda campaign is amazingly affective. Here unemployment is 2.1% – literally everyone who wants a job should be able to find one. Our schools are fully open with a mask mandate and the stores are pretty well stocked with some shortages and occasional bare shelves, and yet people will say everything sucks because the price of gas is high and things at the store are higher than they were a year ago.

  169. 169.

    topclimber

    @Kay: On my good days, I think we can muddle through this fascism/global warming stuff, IF we stay out of a big war.

    I would loved for American exceptionalism to be that we don’t fritter our strength away on neocon adventures as we seemingly decline as a world power. Decline compared to what is of course the other question: vs. a Russia that will die with fossil fuels and a China that needs to be in control of its entire society.

  170. 170.

    TriassicSands

    @Subsole: We own healthcare. We own civil rights. We own public safety. We own education. We are rapidly taking business/economics.

    I don’t think that is not what polling shows.

    Never underestimate the stupidity and ignorance of the American electorate.

  172. 172.

    Subsole

    @Betty Cracker:

    That is perfectly true and perfectly valid. I wish conservatism could reform itself. I genuinely don’t see how.

    In order to do so, they would have to admit they were wrong about…well…<waves hands at everydamnthing>. I do not see how people banning books so they don’t have to admit that SLAVERY “had a racial component” are gonna do that.

    Reform requires honesty, strength, and courage. They have Tucker Carlson, Kyle Rittenhouse, and Liberty U.

    They’re fucked. At least from my position down here on the ground floor. They went ride-or-die on the S.S. “Slave-ships-ain’t-racist”.

    I do NOT see how they unlash themselves from that mast. I fully agree woth you that they MUST. I just cannot see HOW.

  173. 173.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    I don’t find that people say it sucks for them, which is part of my issue with it. They say it sucks but not for them. As you know I strongly disagreed with closing schools (after the initial period where we started to know what we were dealing with and downside vs upside) but the dopes blew even that, because the minute the schools opened they moved to opposing masks and vaccines. They had a good case on the schools! Blew it.

    Schools should be open with mask and vaccine mandates. The downside risk of keeping them out of school is too high.

    I would have liked to see someone-  like a mayor of a smaller city-  really focus on keeping schools open in maybe more creative ways, alternate facilities, focus on ventilation and air treatment, start with “schools are essential and can’t close” and gear everything to that. It would have been nice to have a counter example- a school opening enthusiast who also recognized the risks and tried to mitigate them.

    Instead we got this sort of bad tempered, cranky criticism of schools from a group of usual suspects who hate public schools anyway. We needed a public school lover to show the way.

  174. 174.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Betty Cracker:

    If the victim in that case had been alone in the car and the only survivor of the encounter was the murderer, no one would have been around to dispute the claim that he feared for his life. That’s the issue with the laws, IMO.

    I remember thinking all the way back with Trayvon Martin that it’s a real problem that killing rather than injuring one’s victim bizarrely gives the killer this huge advantage in court, because he can tell whatever story he wants that sells his murder as self-defense.  I don’t know what could be done about that, but something sure needs to.

    One thing’s for damn sure, as far as I’m concerned: if you brought a gun, and the other person was unarmed, you shouldn’t be able to claim self-defense on the theory that he could have taken your gun from you and killed you with it.  You bring it, you accept that risk, period.  If someone isn’t willing to assume that risk, they should have to keep their lethal penis extension at home.

  175. 175.

    noncarborundum

    @different-church-lady:

    One of my professors in college had known and worked with Arnold Schoenberg. He told the story of how Alban Berg (a close associate of Schoenberg’s) once offered a cigarette to one of his composition students and was turned down because the student didn’t smoke. “No?” replied Berg, “Then how do you compose?”

  177. 177.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    A big school district could have done it. “Houston Public Schools” could have said “we support public schools and recognize that they are essential so we are going to move heaven and earth to keep them open as safely as can be managed”. There needed to be a fact-based, pro-public school opening crew.

  179. 179.

    Kay

    When the antiwoke mob started the CRT panic they never actually looked at existing standards for K-12 history – because they have zero interest in K-12 standards- some of which are really bad:

    The unit that follows “Tennessee’s Golden Age” in the Tennessee History course is titled “A Time of Troubles.” It discusses the role of Tennessee in the Civil War. Calling the Civil War a time of troubles hardly does justice to the era. Moreover, the juxtaposition of these two units suggests a clear narrative: that the pre-Civil War era in Tennessee was good and that the Civil War, a war which ultimately led to the end of slavery in the United States, was the onset of trouble for the state.

    These are the super-great US history standards they’re all defending. I knew the actual education people would eventually weigh in :)

  181. 181.

    Betty Cracker

    @Subsole: I don’t see how either. You’re right; it would require an admission that they were wrong, and so far, there’s no incentive for introspection. I think they’d have to lose repeatedly to prompt them to really change, and since the GOP has a built-in structural advantage, and too many Americans have the attention span of a goldfish, that probably won’t happen. It’s depressing!

  182. 182.

    different-church-lady

    @Kay: The big miss is that the press just sits there waiting to be worked over — the “stenographers” charge we see over and over and over again. Biden doesn’t seem at all interested in driving the narrative to them, probably because he doesn’t feel it’s honest. So they just run with what the other team drives to them.

    Just putting out positive factual tweets doesn’t get the job done against a tide of cable news and podcasts and YouTube channels. He shouldn’t put on a flight suit, but his team should be doing something more than they’re doing. The social part of social media has a huge dose of “Isn’t it fun to bitch about the president?” in it. You can’t just ignore the buzz, or mutter some timid sunshine. Drive the good news. Spin. It’s just the reality we have to deal with, no matter how oily it seems.

  184. 184.

    different-church-lady

    @Kay: I have no idea what the everloving fuck this expensive turkey thing is supposed to be. I’ve been in two stores this week where there’s literally mounds of turkeys in the cases and they’re all around twenty five bucks or under. Is this supposedly rampaging turkey inflation because they’re comparing last year’s turkey fire sale prices to this year’s resumption of normal demand?

  185. 185.

    trollhattan

    Yet again, covid disappoints.

    November 24, 2021 at 10:01 am EST By Taegan Goddard

    Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH) told Spectrum News that he had Covid-19 over the summer, but refused to disclose if he had been vaccinated.

    A triumph over Gym Jordan would have done a lot to restore covid’s reputation.

  188. 188.

    Kay

    @different-church-lady:

    Because they’re all nutjobs? I don’t know.

    Chris Hayes
    @chrislhayes
    · 11m
    Seems likely we’ll have the second strongest quarter of GDP growth in my life (behind the post lockdown quarter which was very weird), unemployment around 4% and 70% of people in polls saying the economy sucks.

    I’m just glad they’re finally admitting it.

  189. 189.

    different-church-lady

    @Kay:

    Because they’re all nutjobs?

    Because they’re all story-tellers, and if they have to write fiction to tell a story, they will. Recognize that and give them a better story.

  190. 190.

    Brachiator

    @different-church-lady:

    Is this supposedly rampaging turkey inflation because they’re comparing last year’s turkey fire sale prices to this year’s resumption of normal demand?

    They are just lying and making things up to fool the rubes.

  194. 194.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Betty Cracker: I am not arguing that changes might not be warranted, but that we need to be careful.  Some of the changes to self defense law have been done to shorten timeframe considered so that prosecutors can’t argue that an abused spouse  could have left.  They narrowed it down to the moment of actual killings for a legitimate reason.  This shit is more complicated than late show hosts’ monologues.

  196. 196.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Kay: Their metrics…profit % must always be the same or higher (to justify their obscene compensation). If the price of goods goes up, start layoffs and make the rest pick up the slack to cut labor costs. If the price of goods goes down, maybe hire a few more plebes to replace the ones you wore out.

  199. 199.

    Ruckus

    I think Jenn taking on doozy is the right thing to do. Not every press secretary could do this the way she does, but her style makes his pathetic attempts at being considered a normal, reasonable human obvious. Now the other non human political creatures out there will think there is something completely wrong with her but they are going to think that, call on him or not. I would think that others in the press core would be mortified that they belong to the same club as he does but they seem to be able to not let the rest of us see that. That shows me that they think they belong to the same club, he’s one of them, or that he’s the slow kid brother that one has to take everywhere they go. and watch all the time, to keep him from setting off the fire alarm. Either way he’s part of the family.

  200. 200.

    debbie

    @Betty Cracker:

    Jordan Davis’s murderer had very few defenders, as I recall. These murdering assholes almost got away with their crime with the help of the local police.

  205. 205.

    Subsole

     

     

    @Kay:

    Boy, Chris.

    That’s crazy.

    If only.

    You knew.

    SOMEBODY.

    Who could do something about that.

     

    This. Right here. THIS is the sloppy, juvenile shit I meant when I said they have Trump’s personality. They flood the zone with all these garbagefire takes about the economy, then sit there acting concern-baffled, like “Ormagerd, look at how out-of-touch Americans are! Whuh’ happun?”

    As if the smug little jerks didn’t know…

  206. 206.

    Soprano2

    @Fair Economist: Biden’s low poll numbers. Which are still better than Trump’s but they still talk about how bad they are.

    So, yeah, propaganda. Clever; not outright lies; but still propaganda.

    I find myself almost yelling at the radio “Why don’t you tell your audience that Trump’s highest numbers for most of his term are what you’re saying Biden’s low numbers are now”? They provide absolutely no context for what they’re saying, it has to be deliberate.

  207. 207.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Omnes Omnibus: They narrowed it down to the moment of actual killings for a legitimate reason.  This shit is more complicated than late show hosts’ monologues.

    I see your point, but the problem is, when you narrow the time frame down to a few seconds (or less), a defendant can tell any story he wants about what was going on in his head at that time, since everything rides on intent.  How do you contradict that story if the moments before and after have been excluded?

  208. 208.

    Soprano2

    @Omnes Omnibus: I think at a minimum we need to figure out a way to say that if you stir up your own trouble you can’t then plead self-defense. I agree that way too often, laws are written or re-written as a knee jerk response to one incident, but I think this case highlights a problem with the self-defense law in WI. I also heard that there are no manslaughter statues in WI, which if true seems to be a big hole to me.

  209. 209.

    Miss Bianca

    @Soprano2: There’s a theory that allergies to cigarette smoke are a way of the body’s protecting itself – particularly if you are an ex-smoker.

    I know that since I quit for good (I was never a hard-core nic fiend, mostly started smoking in self-defense when I was working as a bartender), even a whiff of ciggie smoke is usually enough to make me feel nauseated.

  210. 210.

    Subsole

    @Ruckus:

    Yep.

    Again: Fox news lies. They corrode the very concept of truth on which meaningful reportage depends. Every day they operate it becomes harder to report the truth because the concept of truth becomes more malleable.

    If you are a journalist, Fox – and EVERYONE working there – makes it impossible to do your job.

    In what world do you owe someone who makes your job impossible “professional courtesy”? Or ANY courtesy?

    The fact they spread their cheeks and sang Hosannah for Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly and all the rest in front of the entire planet when Obama called Fox ever-so-gently out was a tell.

    They are not reporters, they are truckstop-bathroom gossips.

  211. 211.

    Brachiator

    @Kay:

    Instead we got this sort of bad tempered, cranky criticism of schools from a group of usual suspects who hate public schools anyway. We needed a public school lover to show the way.

    It should always be a matter of public health. Schools are neither sacred, nor essential, in my opinion.

    The problem was, and still is, that idiots simply wanted to keep schools open and did not think about the issues you raised such as masks, space, etc.

    Right wing fools still believe that schools and businesses can be kept open through an assertion of personal will and saluting the flag.

    I also have seen nothing from, for example, red states that indicates that they are updating school facilities with respect to ventilation or other mitigation measures.

  212. 212.

    Soprano2

    @Matt McIrvin: But people want the workers who actually serve them to be a little desperate. Karen in the Starbucks line and Mr. Monopoly have a common interest here.

    They want there to be a person underneath them that they can bully when they’ve had a bad day. I think it’s as simple as that. I’ve told my employees that I don’t want them to put up with that crap from the customers, because I think it’s odious for people to act like that. Then everyone can decide for themselves how much to put up with, knowing that we don’t expect them to put up with abuse.

    Case in point – a week ago we had a 21st birthday party on a Friday (hubby and I weren’t there on that night). The birthday girl decided it would be fun to yell all her karaoke songs into the mic, which caused a couple of tables to complain about it to our manager. She approached the group and asked the birthday girl if she could tone it down just a little bit (only half the group was actually drunk). I guess the girl was extremely drunk, because she got abusive and called my manager a “fucking bitch”, at which point my manager told them they needed to leave. Two members of her party and her mother wrote bad reviews to us, which my manager responded to in as polite of a fashion as she could. I doubt they’ll ever come back, but that’s fine with me, I don’t want anyone who’s going to abuse my employees that way. It was uncalled for.

  213. 213.

    Soprano2

    @Geminid: I don’t know if we’re special. What I do know is what I see and hear, and I see and hear a lot of griping about how high the price of gas is and how it’s all Biden’s fault; this is coming from non-political people as well as MAGA’s. I heard the O’Boys talking about it the other day on their podcast, and they said it often seemed like Obama’s approval rating ticked up and down with the price of gasoline. People see that price EVERYWHERE, and it’s a fixed cost for them – most people drive about the same amount regardless of the price of gas, so when it’s $1/gal higher this year than last year, they really feel it because they can’t reduce their consumption that much.

  214. 214.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Soprano2: It isn’t called manslaughter, but WI’s reckless homicide law covers the same territory.  That sounds like a bad Twitter take.  This is why  non lawyers and lawyers who aren’t familiar with a particular states laws should be careful about opining too much.

  215. 215.

    Soprano2

    @different-church-lady: I don’t think you even have to spin – you just have to repeat the truth, over and over and over again. It takes a lot of repetition for things to actually sink into people’s brains, which is why you see the same political ad every 30 minutes when it’s election season. I think they don’t repeat the good news often enough – they seem to think if they say it once or twice they can get the press to repeat it for them, but that’s not how it works. I also wish the Democrats were more coordinated with their messaging – give everyone the same three or four talking points, make them simple and repeat them. I think too many Democrats believe that’s dishonest in some way, but if you’re telling the truth it’s not!

  217. 217.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @lowtechcyclist: And where do you draw the line?  Five minutes before?  That day?  There are always arguments for and against.  And you have to look beyond what got a particular result under a particular pattern of facts.

  218. 218.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Yeah, all I ever heard from MAGA’s was how Trump was going to make GDP grow at over 3% for his whole term. They get mad when you mention that not only did that only happen for one quarter when TFG was president, it’s happened more than one quarter already with Biden as president! They don’t want to use the same measurement as before for some reason. *rolleyes

  219. 219.

    Soprano2

    @oatler: I believe he was the one who was shot by the Nazis in a camp. In music history we always said he was shot because they listened to his music and decided to spare the rest of us from more of it. Somehow three of the 12-tone composers I studied in music history were all mentioned in this thread; gives me the heebies, that’s not actually music IMHO, it’s just noise.

  220. 220.

    Ruckus

    @J R in WV:

    Drove by a gas station here in SoCal, regular, cash price was $5/gal. Credit price for premium was $5.50/gal. Filling up my car, which has a 12 gal tank costs very close to $50. at the cheap gas place. And just as a side note, I chose this morning to go grocery shopping. Grocery stores are having a very, very good day today.

  221. 221.

    Ruckus

    @Subsole:

    truckstop-bathroom gossips

    I’ll have you know I’ve been in truckstop bathrooms and they are better than this. I had to drive a 73 foot long rig to the west coast in 3 days once. With a CD in the truck. I’ll have you know that while truck drivers will give you a good natured poke on air, they mostly are very helpful with their peers. It’s a club and I ain’t in it, but have had the initiation.

    OTOH, that right there is a great line, truckstop-bathroom gossips.

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