• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” is supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

In after Baud. Damn.

The arc of the moral universe doesn’t bend itself. it’s up to us.

Be a traveling stable for those who can’t find room at the inn.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

We’ll be taking my thoughts and prayers to the ballot box.

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

Let’s finish the job.

Mobile Menu

  • Four Directions Montana
  • Donate with Venmo, Zelle & PayPal
  • Site Feedback
  • War in Ukraine
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • COVID-19 Coronavirus
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • 2024 Elections
  • Garden Chats
  • On The Road
  • Targeted Fundraising!
You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Saturday Night BS Open Thread: The Marketplace of ‘Messaging’

Saturday Night BS Open Thread: The Marketplace of ‘Messaging’

by Anne Laurie|  November 27, 202110:45 pm| 92 Comments

This post is in: Biden Administration in Action, C.R.E.A.M., Open Threads, Our Failed Media Experiment

FacebookTweetEmail

The belief that Biden and the Democrats have a messaging problem for which there is a messaging solution is not just wrong, but contradicts everything we've seen and know about politics.

My latest: https://t.co/uvGSeMPOa1

— Paul Waldman (@paulwaldman1) November 23, 2021

A lot of this is "feeling" and the fact the giant media ecosystem that bloomed during the Trump years does not have content now. pic.twitter.com/GVRVYQ5Bmy

— veto players stan account (@Convolutedname) November 23, 2021

The have been thousands of arguments amounting to the magic word in the last 5 years, because pundits and people on here overvalue messaging and conflate it with policy and electoral politics. pic.twitter.com/NSHaR7yHLh

— veto players stan account (@Convolutedname) November 23, 2021

In a way an ecosystem of 24h news desperately looking for the next 9/11 is now desperately looking for the next Trumpian clusterfuck.
Everything until then will be what MH 370 coverage was to 9/11

— Christian Heinzel (@chheinzel) November 23, 2021


There's a journalistic conversation (however sincere or performative) about what covering Trump Would Mean For Democracy, but we shouldn't ignore the structural incentive that media companies have to double their ratings with a new season of the Trump Show. https://t.co/FSwIxf4BtQ pic.twitter.com/y2ugAilPBD

— Pinboard (@Pinboard) November 22, 2021

This is a perverse incentive that doesn't stop at journalism. Think of any organization that calls Trump a mortal threat to democracy, and I can promise you their financial officer will climb the roof and do a merry jig if Trump is renominated, and backflips if he's re-elected

— Pinboard (@Pinboard) November 22, 2021

Consider this my economic version of accelerationism/horseshoe theory. When a coin comes out of every enemy you punch, you'd be inhuman not to think about sustainability. pic.twitter.com/Ps0w8zFNl3

— Pinboard (@Pinboard) November 22, 2021

Its easier to be against something than for it, which is the whole GOP policy strategy. Its harder to sell big new ideas. And of course, Fox News and the rest of the right wing media ecosystem can drive narratives that bleed into more sober news agencies, blocking Dem messages.

— Zach Smith (@PoliticSmith) November 23, 2021

you can't really message someone out of being a nihilistic, racist reactionary, but pretending you can certainly (and understandably!) feels better than acknowledging that you can only outvote and outwork them, because that's always going to be very tough

— GOLIKEHELLMACHINE (@golikehellmachi) November 16, 2021

FacebookTweetEmail
Previous Post: « Sleep Sweetly, Stephen Sondheim
Next Post: Sunday Morning Garden Chat: California Greening »

Reader Interactions

92Comments

  1. 1.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 27, 2021 at 10:53 pm

    I am dumb and tired and have no idea what “what MH 370 coverage was to 9/11” is supposed to mean.

  2. 2.

    Ken

    November 27, 2021 at 10:59 pm

    the next Trumpian clusterfuck

    They haven’t stopped, they’ve just become less dangerous to the nation and the world.

  3. 3.

    zhena gogolia

    November 27, 2021 at 10:59 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: I had to google it. It was a Malaysian airliner that went missing. They were covering that obsessively and missing OBL, or something, I guess.

    But it was Bush who wasn’t paying attention to OBL.

    ETA: But wait a minute, it happened in 2014. So forget it, I don’t know what that means either

    I think I’d better go to bed, because I don’t understand most of those tweets.

  4. 4.

    featheredsprite

    November 27, 2021 at 11:02 pm

    Uncle Joe is doing fine. Screw the messaging. He’s getting stuff done.

  5. 5.

    Parfigliano

    November 27, 2021 at 11:08 pm

    Biden could cure cancer and crap enough gold to retire the Natl Debt and the media would find something to complain about.  Fuck em.

  6. 6.

    m.j.

    November 27, 2021 at 11:11 pm

    I guess Biden could hop on a plane for a much ballyhooed summit with a fascist halfway across the world.

    Remind me what happened when the other guy did that.

    Oh yeah.

    Nothing.

  7. 7.

    James E Powell

    November 27, 2021 at 11:17 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    When MH 370 disappeared, OBL had been dead for almost three years.

    I do not understand “what MH 370 coverage was to 9/11” either.

  8. 8.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    November 27, 2021 at 11:19 pm

    @James E Powell: They both ended up in the Indian Ocean, other than that, I got nothing.

  9. 9.

    Urza

    November 27, 2021 at 11:20 pm

    @James E Powell: The comparison is basically a news mountain to a news mole hill.  The news channels tried to turn the mole hill of MH370 disappearing into a mountain of conspiracy theories for however long it went on.  It never really amounted to much to keep anyones interest past the first couple days.

  10. 10.

    Another Scott

    November 27, 2021 at 11:20 pm

    Meanwhile, the latest reminder that the other side is a cult…

    In case anyone was wondering what’s up with felon Michael Brian Protzman aka “Negative48” after JFK didn’t show up in Dallas.

    “I AM Jesus Christ.” pic.twitter.com/ewuGPZwHJy

    — Jim Stewartson, Antifascist, #RIPQ ???‍☠️ (@jimstewartson) November 20, 2021

    :-/

    (via JJ MacNab)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  11. 11.

    planetjanet

    November 27, 2021 at 11:20 pm

    After the Virginia campaign for Governor, there has been much rending of garments and gnashing of teeth about messaging. I had to turn away from it all out of exhaustion. McAuliffe didn’t emphasize this or talked too much about that, what about that gaffe in the debate almost no one watched. In the end, everyone has their own issues, their own lens through which they see the world. They only want to see their idea as the focus. A campaign has many messages to reach multitudes. If you saw a message you did not like, maybe it was not meant for you?

  12. 12.

    Ruckus

    November 27, 2021 at 11:21 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    It means the coverage was more important than the thing being covered. Or vice versa. But it’s clear that the current media concept is “We don’t know what’s going on, we don’t understand why, but we bring it to you as it happens, up to the date news coverage.” Also the majority of the people who own/pay for the news “coverage” to exist have the same needs as conservative politicians, never tell the truth, because that will piss off everyone because we are actually trying to steal everything not tied down, and quite a few things that are.

  13. 13.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 27, 2021 at 11:23 pm

    Here’s an…interesting… reply to that GOLIKEHELLMACHINE Twitter thread:

    Radical Goats
    @RadicalGoats

    Nov 16

    Replying to
    @golikehellmachi

    This explains a lot about the kind of Blue MAGA folks who jump down your throat if you do some combination of criticizing the Democratic Party and suggest they need to put some effort into GOTV. I even had one of those goobers chew me out for DOING GOTV.

    IMO, I don’t think GOTV has been a Dem problem recently and I can’t imagine somebody being chewed out for doing GOTV

  14. 14.

    oatler

    November 27, 2021 at 11:28 pm

    MSNBC’s running message is “where did the Democrats go wrong?” Meanwhile, Chuck Todd’s guest tomorrow morning is MS gov. Tate Reeves.

  15. 15.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    November 27, 2021 at 11:33 pm

    The drumph humpers lost their big fix and are now latching onto anything anti-Biden or whatever the Fuck the nuts are peddling.  It’s exhausting and stupid.

  16. 16.

    James E Powell

    November 27, 2021 at 11:37 pm

    @Urza:

    Thank you. I guess I’m a little slow on the uptake.

    Trump was the greatest thing to happen to the press/media business since 9/11. They all loved him and they all hate us for not being at all like him. Some have admitted this, but no one’s behavior has changed.

  17. 17.

    rikyrah

    November 27, 2021 at 11:37 pm

    They miss Dolt45 and resent the competence of 46 and his Administration

  18. 18.

    rikyrah

    November 27, 2021 at 11:39 pm

    @oatler:

    The same Governor whose capitol city has no clean water?

    Who wants to bet me that Todd never brings it up??

  19. 19.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 27, 2021 at 11:39 pm

    All of this reminds me of the Covington Catholic brouhaha. It never ceases to amaze me how often on Reddit I’ll come across people who think that ACKSUALLY the Covington kids were as pure as the driven snow and that they were only provoked by the Black Hebrew Israelites that were screaming at them and that the media smeared them. It seems that has become the prevailing narrative because Nick Sandmann (I think it was just him) won his hundred million dollar defamation suit against several media companies

    I just don’t understand how he could’ve won since there’s video floating out there of those kids harassing some girls and shouting “build the wall!” before the above incident took place. I guess because it wasn’t him in that video?

  20. 20.

    Soprano2

    November 27, 2021 at 11:48 pm

    I read a story on CNN about Biden and Thanksgiving and Omicron, then made the mistake of looking at the comments. Hoo boy, they live in another world where Biden has the power to totally ruin their lives (he’s “ruined everything” according to them), the new variant of Covid is a Democratic plot, and Biden is a racist because he’s banned flights from 8 African countries (they say TFG would be called a racist if he did that), and on and on.  Lots of “Let’s go Brandon”, too. It’s jarring. There really are two realities.

  21. 21.

    Yutsano

    November 27, 2021 at 11:48 pm

    Ratings are way down. Biden doesn’t give them their daily fix, so they’re going back to trying to get Dolt45 back into office any way they can. It’s also what the paymasters want: permanent Republican governance. Then there will be more tax cuts for the rich and none of this “climate change” nonsense.

  22. 22.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 27, 2021 at 11:51 pm

    What do you guys think about all of the smash and grab robberies going on at the moment?

  23. 23.

    Brachiator

    November 27, 2021 at 11:52 pm

    The belief that Biden and the Democrats have a messaging problem for which there is a messaging solution is not just wrong, but contradicts everything we’ve seen and know about politics.

    I was just listening to a political podcast which raised this issue and suggested that Biden’s supposedly weak polling numbers reflects poor messaging with respect to the BBB bill. The host was interviewing his politically savvy mother, and challenged her to list the proposals within BBB. She stumbled after naming universal pre K.

    The host claimed that Obama was better at messaging with respect to the Affordable Care Act.

    I paid some attention to this podcast because it confirmed how stupid pearl clutching about messaging really is. Deep concerns about messaging, framing and crafting narratives is crap made up by Beltway pundits and other insiders who pay to much attention to political strategists who reduce governance to marketing.

    Most people don’t pay a lot of attention to politics, nor should they. And polling might give some weak idea about what some voters think in the moment, but it may not translate into anything meaningful on election day.

    The comparison of BBB and the Affordable Care Act was especially dumb. The ACA was a single thing, while BBB is an umbrella for a number of separate elements.

    However, I think it might be useful if the administration had various Democrats focus on two or three specific items. Spread the coverage.

    I did agree with one issue that was raised. The mother thought that Biden should have got the physical infrastructure bill passed right away, instead of trying to keep it tied to the BBB, especially if they could have got more Republican support. This might have made it easier for the Democrats to shake off claims that they were failing to live up to promises to get things done.

    One side issue was raised which I had not heard before. The host thinks that there is some political infighting happening among Democrats who think that Biden might not run for reelection. And the supposed Beltway wise men and women think that Transportation Secretary Mayor Pete might try to sandbag VP Harris and get the nomination.

    I usually don’t pay attention to this kind of thing, but thought I would at least broach the subject to see if others have heard any of this.

  24. 24.

    patroclus

    November 27, 2021 at 11:57 pm

    Speaking of climate change, I highly recommend either reading or watching the new documentary “The Hidden Life of Trees.”  It’s really enlightening.

  25. 25.

    James E Powell

    November 28, 2021 at 12:04 am

    @Brachiator:

    I agree that there are no magic words or phrases. But I do believe that Democrats have to do more to get control of the narrative.

    Biden’s numbers went down because the press/media made them go down by fronting negative stories and ignoring positive stories. People tell me it started with Afghanistan and has continued to this very day.

  26. 26.

    Soprano2

    November 28, 2021 at 12:05 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): You mean the stuff happening in the Bay area? Seems obvious that it’s highly organized. They’re stealing stuff they can easily sell on EBay or Amazon. That’s one reason I would be reluctant to buy a high end purse from those sites.

  27. 27.

    matt the somewhat reasonable

    November 28, 2021 at 12:06 am

    Propagandists tend to think propaganda is the solution for everything.

  28. 28.

    Anne Laurie

    November 28, 2021 at 12:07 am

    @Brachiator: One side issue was raised which I had not heard before. The host thinks that there is some political infighting happening among Democrats who think that Biden might not run for reelection. And the supposed Beltway wise men and women think that Transportation Secretary Mayor Pete might try to sandbag VP Harris and get the nomination.

    That happy phantasy excites a lot of the Politico / Axios / CNN crowd — We need some diversion! Let’s you & him fight!!!

    In other words, Dems in disarray!, part infinity.

    At this point, it feels like even discussing their bullsh*t gives it undeserved oxygen.  Both Harris and Buttigieg are doing their jobs well, and that’s the important thing.

  29. 29.

    eclare

    November 28, 2021 at 12:10 am

    @rikyrah:   Truth!

  30. 30.

    eclare

    November 28, 2021 at 12:11 am

    @rikyrah:   The same capitol city that is majority Black?  That one?  Why the fuck is someone putting a microphone in front of tater’s piehole?

  31. 31.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 28, 2021 at 12:12 am

    @Soprano2:

    Yes. Caught a nightly news report the other day and they were doing a story about this. Somebody they were interviewing claimed that this was because California changed some law covering thefts from a felony to a misdemeanor and that was why all of this is happening now. I first heard that from my father, who tends to take everything the Beltway says seriousl

    I have no idea if these are correlated or not but it just feels like the negative press for Dems is relentless.

  32. 32.

    eclare

    November 28, 2021 at 12:14 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    What is the Covington Catholic brouhaha?  Missed that one.

  33. 33.

    James E Powell

    November 28, 2021 at 12:19 am

    The press/media will not acknowledge let alone address the fact that FOX, a related network of local news shows, right-wing radio, and “Christian” churches provide a 24/7 chorus of hate & lies directed at Biden & the Democratic Party. They want to pretend it’s not there or that it doesn’t matter. But it does. And not the least because the rest of them – the not-FOX ones – tend to follow & echo what FOX is talking about.

    Why else is the FTFNYT fanning inflation fears while burying the employment news?

    Democrats – not Biden or the leadership – need to start attacking the press/media every day, every appearance, every chance they get. Those assholes want us to lose the midterms.

  34. 34.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 28, 2021 at 12:22 am

    @eclare:

    During a Native American March in DC, some Covington Catholic (Kentucky, nuff said) kids were there (a field trip) and so were some Black Hebrew Israelites, who evidently screamed at them, provoking the teens, who were predominantly white. All of them were wearing MAGA hats. This was the incident with Nick Sandmann, the smirking MAGA teen, and the Native American activist Nathan Phillips, who stood between him and the BHIs, to defuse the situation. It’s honestly a little hazy, I don’t remember too much more about it. I was just surprised to learn he won his defamation suit. I never read about it here

  35. 35.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 28, 2021 at 12:23 am

    Is David Frum sad that Biden is an adult and not a loudmouthed, racist, fascistic, pussy-grabbing, Soviet shitpile mobster conmanbaby attention whore?

    I’d like another major river in the US. Start crying, David.

  36. 36.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 28, 2021 at 12:29 am

    @Parfigliano:

    Biden could cure cancer and crap enough gold to retire the Natl Debt and the media would find something to complain about.  Fuck em. 

    They’d bitch about why the gold wasn’t found during his colonoscopy.  Fuck ’em.  Fuck ’em good.

  37. 37.

    JWR

    November 28, 2021 at 12:30 am

    one reason lefty folks focus so much on messaging is due to 2 guys – George Lakoff & Drew Westen.

    Amen to that! Just the word “framing” gets my hackles up. I mean, I get it, but the focus on the “one magic word” theory drove me nuts back when the Lakoff book came out.

  38. 38.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 28, 2021 at 12:35 am

    @patroclus:

    Speaking of climate change, I highly recommend either reading or watching the new documentary “The Hidden Life of Trees.” It’s really enlightening. 

    Where can we find them (book and movie)?

  39. 39.

    Fair Economist

    November 28, 2021 at 12:36 am

    The media is not looking for exciting stuff for ratings. Back in 2016, when Trump was sued for raping an underage girl and had a decades-long history of mob associations, ruined businesses, and tax fraud, the media spent virtually all their time talking about Hillary Clinton managing her email the same way as every previous Secretary of State had for the past 20 years.

    They’re in it to make Republicans win.

    Quite sure that CNN and MSNBC have the focus groups to tell them that constant doomsaying is driving away their audience, which leans Democratic. I certainly find them totally intolerable at this point. Anti-Biden doomsaying is great for Fox getting viewers and great at making them *lose* viewers, and they’re doing it anyway. That tells you where their priorities are.

  40. 40.

    Soprano2

    November 28, 2021 at 12:39 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): It’s complete bullshit. A simple Google search shows that they actually tightened the law for organized theft, which is what this obviously is. The law your dad is talking about was changed in 2014.

  41. 41.

    Fair Economist

    November 28, 2021 at 12:40 am

    @James E Powell:

    Democrats – not Biden or the leadership – need to start attacking the press/media every day, every appearance, every chance they get. Those assholes want us to lose the midterms.

    So true! I’m sure they’re afraid that the media will turn on them but – it already has, what’s to lose? OTOH, if the Democrats start pumping honest media, that will scare investors in the media. Seems like a good use for that endless email storm – start fluffing media sources that show good and honest news.

  42. 42.

    Brachiator

    November 28, 2021 at 12:40 am

    @James E Powell:

    Biden’s numbers went down because the press/media made them go down by fronting negative stories and ignoring positive stories. People tell me it started with Afghanistan and has continued to this very day.

    Some people are fools. And the press often seizes on a false narrative. You cannot win against this unless you have a government propaganda ministry, because the press will always filter stories through their own biases.

    What was the Afghanistan issue, exactly? That the US government could not execute an absolutely flawless extraction of people? This is impossible unless you are the victor in a conflict and set the terms of subsequent actions. The last months of the Vietnam debacle were similarly chaotic.

    And yet the press did not focus on the real story (which makes both Democrats and Republicans look bad). The entire Afghanistan mission was a goddam waste of time and resources, no one was managing anything and intelligence and political officials either ignored or misunderstood the corruption and incompetence of the Afghan government.

    Instead we got bullshit about how Biden fucked up. But even if we conceded the point, it is more important that we are out of Afghanistan.

  43. 43.

    Fair Economist

    November 28, 2021 at 12:43 am

    @Brachiator: The only place I see messaging, really, is Twitter, and on Twitter Democratic messaging seems great. Every day I get multiple messages laying out how awesome BBB is in clear, concise languages. It’s in the press releases and press conferences too; it’s just that the media ignores them to put out pieces by Republican operatives blatantly lying about milk prices.

  44. 44.

    CaseyL

    November 28, 2021 at 12:46 am

    Funny how the media keeps going on about “Biden isn’t getting his message out” when they’re the ones who decide what gets covered and discussed.

  45. 45.

    Brachiator

    November 28, 2021 at 12:47 am

    @James E Powell:

    Democrats – not Biden or the leadership – need to start attacking the press/media every day, every appearance, every chance they get.

    There is no upside in attacking the press. They have more microphones and more outlets.

    You cannot get rid of them. Attacking the press just makes you look weak.

    Trump attacked the press all the time. This fired up his base, but those people are idiots.

  46. 46.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 28, 2021 at 12:48 am

    @Soprano2:
    Huh. Sure would’ve been nice if the national network newscast I saw would’ve given that context. Thanks

  47. 47.

    Alison Rose

    November 28, 2021 at 12:50 am

    @CaseyL: it’s their version of holding your hand and smacking your face with it yelling WHY R U HITTING URSELF LOL

  48. 48.

    Brachiator

    November 28, 2021 at 12:56 am

    @Soprano2:

    They’re stealing stuff they can easily sell on EBay or Amazon. That’s one reason I would be reluctant to buy a high end purse from those sites.

    Wouldn’t that leave a trail that authorities could follow?

    I doubt that you will see this stuff on EBay any time soon.

    There was a news story about a robbery of a Home Depot store. Hammers and other implements that could be used for future smash and grabs were stolen. We may see more of this soon.

  49. 49.

    Soprano2

    November 28, 2021 at 12:58 am

    @CaseyL: This, constantly. They talk as if they aren’t deciding what gets covered!

  50. 50.

    KSinMA

    November 28, 2021 at 12:59 am

    @CaseyL: This.

  51. 51.

    L85NJGT

    November 28, 2021 at 1:08 am

    @Anne Laurie:

    They polled a potential primary. She would lap the field, and that’s with Michelle Obama included to try and make it a horse race.

  52. 52.

    JWR

    November 28, 2021 at 1:10 am

    @Brachiator:

    What was the Afghanistan issue, exactly?

    That a Democrat actually had the political stones to extract us from that nightmare. That was the Afghanistan issue.

    You know that. I know that, but pulling off one of the largest extractions of humanity from a country in the midst of a civil war got little air time, so most people aren’t even aware of that little factoid

    ETA Christine Amanpour, one of our better journalists, has never gotten over our “chaotic” withdrawal.

  53. 53.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 28, 2021 at 1:12 am

    @L85NJGT:

    Do you have a link to that poll?

  54. 54.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 28, 2021 at 1:13 am

    @CaseyL:

    This

  55. 55.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 28, 2021 at 1:19 am

     

    @Brachiator:

    What was the Afghanistan issue, exactly? That the US government could not execute an absolutely flawless extraction of people? This is impossible unless you are the victor in a conflict and set the terms of subsequent actions. The last months of the Vietnam debacle were similarly chaotic.

    You hit the nail on the head with this. That’s something a lot of folks don’t want to understand

  56. 56.

    Eolirin

    November 28, 2021 at 1:20 am

    @CaseyL: Only Democrats have any agency. They treat themselves like they treat Republican lawmakers.

  57. 57.

    Eolirin

    November 28, 2021 at 1:21 am

    @Brachiator: The Afghanistan issue was that we left Afghanistan.

  58. 58.

    James E Powell

    November 28, 2021 at 1:22 am

    @Brachiator:

    It did more than fire up his base – and we could use quite a bit of that – it also caused the press/media to back off of him

    Attacking them one day or one week on one or two stories would be waste, but the failure to contest their narratives means that the great mass of voters hear no one opposing their narratives.

  59. 59.

    Eolirin

    November 28, 2021 at 1:25 am

    @James E Powell: That won’t work for us. They’re not afraid of Democrats. They’re also not competing with a Democratic propaganda outlet that will push Democratic talking points even if they don’t. So they can just deplatform Democratic voices while complaining about how awful the Democrats are and no one will hear otherwise.

    We can’t contest their narratives because we have no platforms to do so with. Besides Twitter. Which has its own problems. And top 100,000 blogs like this one. Which won’t reach nearly enough people. It’s all GOTV and local organizing. There’s no way to push back on the news front. We can only get people to tune it out, and that’s becoming increasingly necessary, but it’s still a problem that there’s nothing to replace it with.

  60. 60.

    L85NJGT

    November 28, 2021 at 1:40 am

    @Brachiator:

    Why the assumption the tools are for smash and grabs? Construction crews go through that stuff like it is disposable – because for them, it is. That crap is already on a job site somewhere.

  61. 61.

    Soprano2

    November 28, 2021 at 1:49 am

    @Brachiator: Maybe, but there are theft rings that hire young women to buy high end purses and shoes with stolen credit cards so they can sell them on EBay. How would anyone track a Coach or Michael Kors purse?

  62. 62.

    NotMax

    November 28, 2021 at 1:53 am

    @Soprano2

    Inject it with the vaccine.

    :)

  63. 63.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    November 28, 2021 at 1:57 am

    @NotMax:

    But then they might grow tails!

  64. 64.

    JWR

    November 28, 2021 at 2:17 am

    @L85NJGT:

    Why the assumption the tools are for smash and grabs?

    Because it’s a logical assumption? I know that as a machinist I had to buy my own tools, (and took damn good care of ’em, too), but I don’t know how tools are stored, or even if they’re stored, on construction sites. But that assumption was my first when I saw the news stories about it.

  65. 65.

    JWR

    November 28, 2021 at 2:22 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): A tail? Heck, I’m still waiting for instructions from my Bill Gates microprocessor. ;) Hmm, maybe I got the instruction set for a third eyeball…

  66. 66.

    Chris T.

    November 28, 2021 at 3:05 am

    @JWR: My house is a construction site at the moment. The tools are locked up.

  67. 67.

    Yutsano

    November 28, 2021 at 3:23 am

    @Eolirin: And top 100,000 blogs like this one.

    THERE’S THAT INFLATION AGAIN!!!!

  68. 68.

    Geminid

    November 28, 2021 at 4:07 am

    The subject of this post reminded me of something Ragnarok Lobster tweeted a few days ago:

         I’m gonna take the rest of the day off because I’m not in the mood for white people blaming white supremacy on poor Democratic messaging.

    @electricbrotha  Nov.19, 2021.

  69. 69.

    prostratedragon

    November 28, 2021 at 4:08 am

    @mrmoshpotato:  Book, wherever you buy books. Movie is streaming for rental on Prime.

  70. 70.

    prostratedragon

    November 28, 2021 at 4:10 am

    @CaseyL:  I was going to propose that a lot of this is blame-shifting for what they aren’t covering but know damn well they should.

     

    ETA: Or what Alison Rose said better at 47.

  71. 71.

    Geminid

    November 28, 2021 at 4:23 am

    @patroclus: Another good resource regarding climate change is British climate scientist Myles Allen’s article, “The Green New Deal: A View from Across the Atlantic,” in The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, February 2019. Allen helped write the U.N.’s 2018 IPCC report calling for a carbon neutral world economy by 2050. His Bulletin article provides a good overview of the challenge.

  72. 72.

    Chris T.

    November 28, 2021 at 4:55 am

    You know what might be funny (I’m not sure how to arrange this though): get someone to go on Fox news and say things like “Under Biden, the cost of milk is now $500 per gallon!  You can’t find hamburger meat in the stores but if you do, it’s three grand a pound!  And nobody can get a job because there are no jobs available!  Meanwhile nobody can hire workers because they’re all demanding a minimum wage of four dollars an hour!”

    Basically, just a bunch of so-over-the-top (or bottom) BS that it’s comical. The millionaire anchors who never do any of their own shopping and wouldn’t know a job from a hole in the ground won’t have a clue.

  73. 73.

    lowtechcyclist

    November 28, 2021 at 5:42 am

    I do think there’s one area that the Dems need to improve their messaging, and that’s about the Republican Party.

    They’re traitors.

    Covid traitors, climate traitors, traitors to democracy, and insurrectionists.

    Covid messaging, for instance, should steal from 9/11: in the war on Covid, are you on America’s side, or on the side of the damned virus that’s killed 800,000 of us already?  The Republicans are all on the side of the damned virus.  They’re helping the virus kill Americans. They’re traitors.

    And so forth.

  74. 74.

    Shalimar

    November 28, 2021 at 6:23 am

    @Parfigliano: Not the media (though it happened on FoxNews), but Don Jr. did attack Biden last night for not having cured cancer yet.  It was so bizarre I’m not sure what he thought his point was.

  75. 75.

    geg6

    November 28, 2021 at 6:52 am

    @Soprano2:

    They have serial numbers and keep a record of them so, if your purse needs repairs or is stolen, they can track it back to the store it was shipped to and thus, to the owner from the retailer.  Every Coach and Dooney and Bourke bag has the serial number on the label identifying that particular bag.  Ask me how I know.

  76. 76.

    trnc

    November 28, 2021 at 7:36 am

    @planetjanet: McAuliffe didn’t emphasize this or talked too much about that, what about that gaffe in the debate almost no one watched.

    I didn’t watch that debate, but I know the gaffe to which you refer because the media made damn sure I would. That’s the crux of this thread.

  77. 77.

    cmorenc

    November 28, 2021 at 8:22 am

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Somebody they were interviewing claimed that this was because California changed some law covering thefts from a felony to a misdemeanor and that was why all of this is happening now. I first heard that from my father, who tends to take everything the Beltway says seriousl

    Reason group-grab-and-run thefts are happening at e.g. big-box electronics stores is the thieves’ correct understanding that police (and even in-store security personnel) are, most of the time, inherently stretched too thin to timely and effectively react to stop a whole gang from stealing stuff and getting away.

  78. 78.

    Geminid

    November 28, 2021 at 8:29 am

    @trnc: McAuliffe’s “gaffe” was discussed some in reporting by newspapers as the campaign went on. The Youngkin team made sure it was propagated to voters immediately. They had an internet ad up that night, and started running ads on TV the next day. McAuliffe’s words (taken out of context of course) fit nicely into their broader narratives of state power versus that of parents, and of professional politician versus citizen. This probably got them a few extra points in a close race.

    I think that McAuliffe’s point was essentially correct. His tone was a little defiant, though, and that did not help. His friend Bill Clinton would have said the same thing in a better way. I think fellow Virginia politicians Kaine, Warner, and Northam would have also.

  79. 79.

    bluegirlfromwyo

    November 28, 2021 at 8:31 am

    @trnc: Youngkin made it the centerpiece of his advertising as well. Irony that Youngkin wanted no debates whatsoever.

  80. 80.

    bluegirlfromwyo

    November 28, 2021 at 8:38 am

    Geminid got ahead of me with a better comment.

    @Geminid: I think that McAuliffe’s point was essentially correct. His tone was a little defiant, though, and that did not help. His friend Bill Clinton would have said the same thing in a better way. I think fellow Virginia politicians Kaine, Warner, and Northam would have also.

    This. There was a path to put Youngkin on the defensive for not trusting teachers of one of the best public school systems in the country. That McAuliffe never took it showed his weakness as a candidate.

  81. 81.

    artem1s

    November 28, 2021 at 9:10 am

    @Brachiator:

    Beltway wise men and women think that Transportation Secretary Mayor Pete might try to sandbag VP Harris and get the nomination.

    bullshit from the beltway trying to start a horse race narrative in an off election year is what I hear. Lack of clicks driving ad dollars post TFG is bad enough. An entire primary election cycle where there are no serious challengers to Biden and the Democratic party spends the entire primary talking about boring POLICY is literally HELL ON EARTH for these power tools.

    let’s not help the splitters by playing along and helping this idiot argument gain traction. Gays vs women vs POC is definitely not good messaging for Dems.

  82. 82.

    Kay

    November 28, 2021 at 10:11 am

    I’m not impressed with Waldman’s article because “Democrats” aren’t saying Biden has to “give a speech” or “find a slogan”. Joe Klein and David Frum say that. I agree it’s a dumb thing to say.

    Democrats are concerned because turnout was up in VA and NJ and they lost one and barely won the other, so “turnout” (whatever that means) can’t be the only response.

    If the argument is the Democratic Party can do absolutely nothing to improve their prospects in the midterms other than wait for people to “realize” something or other, fine, but then it’s hard to justify a campaign and messaging apparatus that costs hundreds of millions in donor dollars and employs thousands of people. If the wildly expensive “communications/marketing” arm of the Democratic Party contributes absolutely nothing and could never contribute anything then why have them? Just shut the whole thing down and spend the money on 20,000 local organizers at 40k each.

  83. 83.

    Soprano2

    November 28, 2021 at 10:42 am

    @geg6: I didn’t know that, so I learned something. I heard a story about a theft ring that hired young women to use stolen credit cards to buy goods like that; then they sold them on sites like EBay and Amazon. I guess they thought it would be impossible to trace the stolen goods back to them. That’s what I figure is going on there.

  84. 84.

    Kay

    November 28, 2021 at 11:29 am

    Will we be seeing this theory in the upcoming congressional campaigns?

    “Donate to my campaign although none of it matters and whether I win or not is wholly dependent on larger favorable/unfavorable perceptions, which can not be influenced in any way”

    If it’s just a matter of looking at the Voterfile, identifying voters and then canvassing to turn them out then we don’t need 90% of the campaign apparatus/expense and I’m baffled by why Democrats need all this money they’re raising.

    What is “the work” they’re referring to, specifically? What will we be doing when we “outwork” them? Campaigning, right? Which is “messaging”. That’s what campaigns do- they talk to voters. That’s all “messaging” is.

  85. 85.

    Eolirin

    November 28, 2021 at 12:02 pm

    @Kay: We do need to run ads. There’s solid evidence that ads do very little, except when there’s a significant asymmetry in ad buys. In other words, not running ads while the other candidate runs ads buries you. But both sides running roughly the same amount of ads makes people tune them out.

    This is a prisoner’s dilemma that mainly benefits the people making and running ads. Both parties would be better off without having as much money funneled into them, but neither party can stop as long as the other party is willing to continue.

  86. 86.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 28, 2021 at 12:13 pm

    Nuke the motherfuckin’ Village from orbit. NAO! It’s the only way to be sure.

  87. 87.

    Nobody in Particular

    November 28, 2021 at 12:47 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Aliens.  I’ve repeated that quote numerous times, and it’s a good one. Even though It is reactionary. As an upper case Cynic I do fear it will end in some form of violence, likely hybrid warfare of varying low to mid intensities, as is often the case. Balkanization in the Rockies. Until Popper’s Paradox of Tolerance hopefully kicks in to ensure survival of the human race for just a bit longer. When people are sincere about wanting to commit mass murder of any one,  you have to intercede. Sometimes you have to mass murder them first.  The Catholic Church engaged in it about 900 years ago in the French town of Beziers while pursuing the Cathar Heretics during the Albigensian Crusade. I’m probably a Cathar, also

    “Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.“

    Mass movements can rise and spread without belief in a God, but never without belief in a devil.
    Eric Hoffer, The True Believer

  88. 88.

    Ksmiami

    November 28, 2021 at 12:49 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: twice on Sundays…

  89. 89.

    Ruckus

    November 28, 2021 at 1:22 pm

    @Brachiator:

    who reduce governance to marketing

    Marketing is how they think all money is made. And in this country that isn’t all that far off. Our manufacturing is not zero but it is a lot less of our business side than it was. We do make cars here, but partially because the shipping is expensive. Where are most of our light goods made? The computer you are typing on, the microchips in cars, the vacuum you clean your house with, your TV, the bicycle you might ride, your cell phone, your clothes, reading glasses, your home appliances, the light bulbs you read by, the dishes you eat off of….. Few if any of those are made here. I worked in manufacturing for 50 of the 60 yrs I worked, as a percentage of the economy and now – Manufacturers in the United States account for 11.39% of the total output in the economy, employing 8.51% of the workforce. We depend on others to make all the stuff/crap we buy. 

  90. 90.

    eddie blake

    November 28, 2021 at 2:14 pm

    @Ruckus:  well THAT’S a relief. when the civil war 2.0 comes and sets the country on fire, we’ll all still be able to get consumer goods, toys and useless crap.

  91. 91.

    Ruckus

    November 28, 2021 at 4:09 pm

    @eddie blake:

    Very likely.

    TPTB think that as long as they make money, no one else needs any. Well except for the people that make their lives look like they own everything within a 50 to 1000 mile radius, that distance depending on their bank and stock balance. Because of course the bigger those balances are the better humans they are.         Not.

  92. 92.

    Jack Hughes

    November 28, 2021 at 8:04 pm

    Democrats do have a messaging problem in that THE MESSAGE is that the Republican Party has become an existential threat to our constitutional democracy, but they are apparently too polite to explicitly say so.

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

Recent Comments

  • Baud on Cold, Cruel Grey Dawn Open Thread: #DonSnoreleone (Apr 16, 2024 @ 5:08am)
  • Baud on Cold, Cruel Grey Dawn Open Thread: #DonSnoreleone (Apr 16, 2024 @ 5:04am)
  • Martin on Cold, Cruel Grey Dawn Open Thread: #DonSnoreleone (Apr 16, 2024 @ 4:58am)
  • Baud on Cold, Cruel Grey Dawn Open Thread: #DonSnoreleone (Apr 16, 2024 @ 4:55am)
  • lgerard on Cold, Cruel Grey Dawn Open Thread: #DonSnoreleone (Apr 16, 2024 @ 4:55am)

🎈Keep Balloon Juice Ad Free

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year
View by Past Author

Balloon Juice Meetups!

All Meetups
Talk of Meetups – Meetup Planning
Proposed BJ meetups list from frosty

Fundraising 2023-24

Wis*Dems Supreme Court + SD-8
Virginia House Races
Four Directions – Montana
Worker Power AZ
Four Directions – Arizona
Four Directions – Nevada

Featuring

Medium Cool
Artists in Our Midst
Authors in Our Midst
Positive Climate News
War in Ukraine
Cole’s “Stories from the Road”
Classified Documents Primer

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Submit Photos to On the Road
Balloon Juice Mailing List Signup
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Links)
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Posts)

Fix Nyms with Apostrophes

Balloon Juice for Ukraine

Donate

Twitter / Spoutible

Balloon Juice (Spoutible)
WaterGirl (Spoutible)
TaMara (Spoutible)
John Cole
DougJ (aka NYT Pitchbot)
Betty Cracker
Tom Levenson
David Anderson
Major Major Major Major
ActualCitizensUnited

Political Action 2024

Postcard Writing Information

Balloon Juice for Four Directions AZ

Donate

Balloon Juice for Four Directions NV

Donate

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2024 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!