C’mon people. Gird your loins or some other platitude.
Every time I write a post like the one below, a bunch of you think I am being defeatist and preaching helplessness, and that is the last thing I am doing or trying to do. I’m just trying to express where we are now, that’s it.
And where we are now should not be a surprise to anyone. This was a done deal when Hillary lost in 2016. This was the inevitable outcome. They have been planning this and working towards this for decades, and I am not saying this because I am some sort of elite political genius, but because it is WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN SAYING THEY WANT TO DO FOR DECADES. I’m obviously not talking about the useful idiots like Susan Collins, although I don’t even think she is that, she knows exactly what she is doing and I have no reason to think she is going to be anything other than happy with the outcome. She’ll pretend she is unhappy and surprised, but she’s been around long enough and been in enough meetings that she knows exactly what she is fucking doing and has done.
But the operators behind the scenes have been quite explicit that overturning Roe is what they want and they have been working on it for decades. The money guys in the GOP saw an opportunity and hitched a ride with the nutters, and it is going to pay off for them, too. They are coming for it all- gay marriage, contraception, brown, you name it, and they are gonna take out osha and the epa and anything else that gets in their way. It’s the same fucking war they’ve been fighting since FDR only this time they are winning because decades of propaganda has done its job on the population. And you thought those WWJD bracelets in the 90’s were innocent, hunh?
I’m basically of the opinion that the money guys have run a smash and grab for the last few decades, and see that the white population will no longer be the majority, and they and the religious component are just burning it all down now so that the protections and opportunities that existed for a white majority will no longer be there for the minority majority. That’s why they have been furiously gerrymandering the past year, to ensure they can keep white control as long as possible to finish gutting everything. Ending Roe and other social bullshit is the price they pay to get what they want, and they are ok with it because they can always fly their daughters and families to a blue state or overseas because the rules never apply for the rich.
The next few decades are going to be chaotic information wars with increasing civil strife, and they’ve primed and prepped their shock troops, eroded all gun laws, stacked the judiciary, and amped their goons up to think that nancy pelosi is public enemy number one. Their decades long war against the media has worked and their side only listens to that which is spoon fed to them. It’s all coming together.
Again, I don’t say this to depress you, but because you should know where we stand (at least according to me). Wasting time about things you can not control, like Roe, which is just out of our hands and has been since 2016, is pointless. Don’t feel helpless, feel pissed. Don’t throw up your hands and cower, ball them into a fist. The only fucking option is to submit or fight, and I know what I am going to do.
On the upside, we might get some solid music and art out of all this strife.
Very much this! And I would add, having done volunteer work at various levels and in several kinds of organizations — from local to presidential — one person CAN make a significant difference. One of the corollaries of widespread apathy and resignation is that those who remain active have enormous leverage. Use it! “Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.”
Absolutely true. The time to protect Roe was 2016… when a majority of white women voted for Trump.
if you can’t out vote them you won’t get what you want.
Burn this white male xtian patriarchy to the fucking ground.
Gin & Tonic
30 years ago today over 90% of Ukrainians voted for independence in a referendum
Creating an upbeat Christmas letter is going to be a challenge this year. But I think it can be done without invoking record low unemployment claims, which don’t seem very Christmassy
John, I read what you wrote below, and I don’t think for one skinny minute you were “defeatist” in attitude or outlook. This is where we are at. There is no sugarcoating the shit. People who are running around crying with disbelief Have.Not.Been.Paying.Attention.
My only thought for the right wing bastards right now is: “Be careful what you wish for…”.
My only hope is that the shit they do comes back on them threefold.
Yep. I’m angry as fuck (as are a lot of people) but I’d managed to sort of think “well… maybe they’re not going full theocrat/Republican”. They are.
They’re going to get a LOT of people really, really angry at them. You want to damage your 2022 prospects, this is how you do it.
Recognizing the problem isn’t being defeatist. There are actual times your hair is on fire and you need to act like it. The people who downplay how serious the situation is right now remind me of the people who drive into deep water because they severely underestimate the actual danger. Best not to FAAFO.
Depressing as it is, I think this is the realistic take.
We had two big chances to avoid this. One was 2016, and we all know what happened then. The other was in 2000 when too many people were too cool or pure to vote for Gore. I know the people who are around here who fell into that trap have learned and won’t do it again so I m not pointing fingers, but, damn it, some of us have been yelling and pleading about this for more than 20 years and just wanted to vent. I mean, ffs. Shit.
I start out feeling hopeless and depressed. Nowhere to go but up!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Patricia Kayden: Yup, and the person who told us the key issues in 2016 were something called “TPP” and “WALL STREET SPEECHES!” was white, but not a woman
Genuinely appreciate how Barrett and Kavanaugh don’t pretend they’re anything other than wholly political actors. Here they’re teeing up the GOP political argument for the next campaign, assuring everyone that no rights that anyone cares about will be at all affected.
“Unavailable in certain states” is an interesting new way to look at “rights”, I must say. That’ll take some getting used to, but I’m sure we’ll adjust as more and more rights become unavailable in certain states.
@Sam: Almost 50 percent, not the majority
it’s still a horror that any of them did.
@oatler: Best laugh of the day, thank you.
I didn’t want to put any gloom in the thankful threads, and it’s been a shtshow here, but we do have much to be thankful for.
I’ll leave this here to prep you hooligans…
Ugh, the gloating on the far Right is going to be unbearable. I don’t know which will be worse- the gloating on the far Right or the efforts at denial and minimization by the “institutionalists” who doggedly refuse to admit how radical this court is. I almost have sympathy for them at this point- clinging to the idea that this has something to do with looking at “precedent” and “following laws”.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Blog favorite and sometimes Native American senator came down hard against TPP.
I’m glad that it’s all out in the open at last. I saw the right-wing transformation of democracy into a theocratic oligarchy coming back in the 80s, with a big assist from the academic postmodern leftists dumping on reason and truth, but of course the Very Serious People couldn’t wrap their heads around that. Now maybe the idiots claiming that both sides are the same will pull their heads out of their asses. I can dream, anyway.
John, I agree about the Smash & Grab and the rest of your analysis. I’ll add that one more thing we can do: create spaces, for ourselves and others, to breathe. Recognize that, pissed as we may be, some days we simply have to step away. Recognize that some days, someone might be having A Day.
I’m really pleased the county prosecutor in Michigan is looking at charges for the parents in the latest school shooting, if indeed they supplied the weapon. It’ll take courage to bring charges- the prosecutor will be hounded by gun nuts- but it would be great if someone at least tried to bring that issue to a grand jury.
You go. Godspeed. And get some extra security.
I just had a conversation with a friend? of mine in Michigan. I said “This SCOTUS would apparently grant egg yolks an interest to be born.” She said that she would support that. She also thinks the economy sucks and gas prices are outrageous even though she doesn’t have a car.
I’m a crazy optimist, but while I agree w. John on most of this post, I don’t think it’s going to be white crazies in control for decades. The Soviet Union was impregnable until it wasn’t, and then it all crumbled incredibly quickly. There’s enough of the country where this shit doesn’t fly (CA, and everything west of the Cascades further north, New England and the mid-Atlantic states and more) to make conflict inevitable and immediate. I don’t know that we’ll devolve into increasingly separate increasingly sovereign states, or if the majority will simply refuse to be governed by the majority, but white patriarchy does not have decades.
However long it has, though, so many–way too many–people will suffer in the interim.
@Kay: It is an ugly time for so many human rights basics. And for law as a transcendent societal glue. That was never my personal view of the law writ large. I knew it’s flaws intimately. I often thought of my job as “witnessing.” But now I’m not sure what the end of law here is. Sotomayor asked, if the Court overturns Roe, how will they ever get past the stench?
@schrodingers_cat: Give it a rest. That is racist and plain
@Tom Levenson: Regimes that ignore both reality and the majority tend to be pretty brittle. Something brittle can last for a long time, but as you point out, it can also crumble suddenly.
@Tom Levenson: My concern is that I will only be around for the bad parts and miss the Renaissance.
@schrodingers_cat: Hillary did not even explicitly support TPP. Who was for or against it wasn’t the issue. It’s the people who made the 2016 election about those things instead of Supreme Court seats, to the point of chanting about it over DNC speakers on live TV and that wasn’t Warren.
@Patricia Kayden: Also don’t forget the pro choice organizations who endorsed or didn’t oppose Susan Collins who by her votes made this all happen. How is Susan Collins at fault?
#1. She voted for the change in Senate rules that abandoned the filibuster for SCOTUS appointees. If she and one or two other Senators had opposed that change (Like Sinema is now) then we would not be here because none of Trump’s nominees would have gotten 60 votes. He could have put forward any number of moderate conservative justices that could easily have gotten 60 votes. But not those 3.
#2. She of course voted to confirm all three of Trump’s nominees.
Any pro choice organization that gave Susan Collins any cover at all has only themselves to blame.
Good night y’all. I got meaningful battles to fight tomorrow.
It is a long, ongoing fight, and 2016 was just one battle.
People keep making a big deal about Roe. But conservatives have been attacking reproductive rights at the state level for years. This is where one level of fight has always been.
And legal scholars have been pointing out that the Court can leave Roe itself intact, but still allow all the shitty attacks by state legislators.
And yet for some reason, too many Balloon Juice people have been focused solely on Roe. Makes no sense.
Oh, in some ways it was time, right? They’re smart lawyers, and that’s all they are. Maybe turning them into the Rule of Law was a ridiculous fantasy anyway.
Breyer really isn’t going to retire, is he? Unfuckingbelievable.
@Kent: Susan Collins is always at fault.
@Eolirin: The idea that “gettable” undecided voters would choose their candidate based on the TPP …. is somewhat laughable. It only affects people at the leftist end, and even if they had a case against the TPP, they still should have voted Dem.
I mean, I have strong reservations about the *original* TPP (but now is not the time to argue about it) and yet, I voted for Hillary. B/c, y’know, I’ve got at least two functioning neurons.
The people who say voting for Democrats didn’t save Roe are looking for an excuse to criticize. The argument makes no sense except as a thin excuse for not voting for Democrats.
We have another chance coming up in 2022. Don’t forget that. Holding the Senate is essential.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kent: Susan Collins is the most successful political fraud this side of trump. Her wide-eyed, stammering idiot affect helped her sell the idea that she was a sincere but weak and dithering moderate when in fact she is as partisan as anyone in McConnell’s caucus. The trump years ripped those particular blinders off for me, but it’s hard to counter an image established by twenty years of consistent fakery, especially since she’s been by all accounts a very, very good local politician.
New Deal democrat
Today’s Supreme Court threads made me think all the way back to nearly 50 years ago, shortly after Roe was decided.
At my Prestigious University, the prevailing strain of thought seemed to be “poor reasoning, right result” and that, much like segregation after Brown, while there would be much caterwauling and limited noncompliance, the opponents of abortion would Sit Down and Shut Up.
Having been raised Catholic, I thought they had no idea what kind of intractable foe they were up against. Unlike southern good ole boy pols, who think of the next election, the Catholic hierarchy thinks in terms of centuries. They were in for the Very Long Haul.
The surprise was that evangelical Protestants would completely reverse decades or even centuries of teachings that life did not begin until the soul entered the fetus sometime during the second trimester, for the explicit purpose of helping the GOP win elections in order to defeat civil rights for Blacks.
@Chetan Murthy: I am responding to someone responding to another post that is talking about the BernieBro left. Whether you want to call those people or the people they were attempting to influence gettable votes or not, that is what they were using as lines of attack.
Warren was never a real part of that group and was a far more effective surrogate and ally for Hillary.
@Immanentize: It is the truth. She has sometimes identified herself as Native American on official forms and sometimes as white. Washington Post did a story on it.
Susan Collins is a GOPer so yes. Always at fault. I’m talking about rich white liberals who gave her money and lots of “cover” because she was a “pro-choice” Republican. RIIIGGGHHHT.
NARAL and Planned Parenthood endorsed her and gave her money as did a shitload of liberal groups all through the early 2000s and on up through her 2014 campaign. How did that work out for them?
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
you misspelled Susan Sarandon
@Brachiator: I am pretty sure that people here are very aware of the shit that is happening at the state level. Roe still matters though. It matters first because it explicitly recognizes the right to reproductive choice. The right itself matters. It also matters because it is the first in a line of cases that recognize a right to privacy. It is pretty clear that the right is gunning for that, so a loss is a stop toward losing that right.
And, fwiw, you may have badly misread the room.
Too tired and—like you—uninterested in watching a rigged game to read the comments, but we’re eventually going to have to set up some kind of Underground Railroad to help poor women—and especially poor BIPOC women—access their reproductive rights. It’s hideous.
@Kay: Breyer may after this term. His questions today were unbearable to listen to. It makes me sad. I don’t blame him and I don’t blame RBG because, as T. Marshall, J. once said: “I was appointed for life and I intend to fulfill my appointment.” (One of my fave quotes). I blame entirely the “don’t try to blackmail me with the Supreme Court” Hillary haters. Those are the bad people here. Not RBG, not Breyer. Fucking so-callecl Democrats.
@Kent: Yeah, I am the one who is going to forget that. I’m the guy that scolds people and promotes Pollyanna views. Come on.
I think you are correct, John. Thank you for saying it clearly.
The parents told their kid not to say anything. They are in it up to their necks.
My point is that someone who decides who to vote for, based on that candidate’s support for the TPP is not a gettable vote. They’re imbeciles. And I say this, noting that I was opposed to the original TPP. It’s an imbecilic thing to use as a deciding issue.
Just a reminder folks that the Democratically held House, Senate, and White House could make all of this go away tomorrow simply by passing national legislation implementing abortion rights in Federal statute. Which would instantly invalidate every state law.
With Manchin and Sinema that ain’t happening. But it easily could. And nothing the GOP could do about it.
Looks like I gotta go back. I was living in Dublin when “REPEAL” became “REPEALED”. The amendment to the Irish Constitution that made abortion legal. It was my first vote as an Irish citizen. Imagine that. Ireland – by the way they legalized gay marriage before America – making abortion legal.
I wasn’t commenting at you. Just responding to your post to make the point. This isn’t only on 2016 Trump voters, or RBG. Susan Collins was equally important in making all this happen. And a shitload of white liberals supported her and gave her cover for decades.
This is not unexpected, the only silver lining is that the single issue voters get a win and will be less likely to voter in the future. Our single issue voters will be ramped up and eager to participate.
This could be the dumbest thing the Republicans ever did.
So, all you cat people may want to watch “The Electrical Life of Louis Wain” on Prime!
I’m sorry he’s not here to respond, but he was right. Stop being a racist. You’ve been flogging that bullshit for far too long. Be better already.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
There’s 60 votes to pass national legislation?
And even if there were, what’s to stop this Star Chamber from striking it down.
I think the gaslighting by the “institutionalists” will be worse. I think they know perfectly well how radical the right wing justices are being, and they’re flat out lying to the public about it. I’ll take an victory lap by the people who have been honest about what they want and how they plan to get it over the lies from people who are pretending this is anything but a massive power grab by the Supreme Court.
@Chetan Murthy: I mean, given how small the margins were I’m not sure that’s actually right, since Jill Stein voters were enough to flip the election, and if you want to call them stupid or imply there was no way any of those could have been convinced to vote for Hillary anyway, okay. No way to know for sure, but whatever.
But I’m also not sure how that’s at all relevant in context. The line of attack was being used, so that’s accurate, and Warren wasn’t part of that line of attack, which is what my comment was about.
@Brachiator: I can’t speak for everyone else’s focus on Roe but my emphasis on it has a lot to do with a right to privacy as well as reproductive freedom.
@schrodingers_cat: It certainly appears that your comment was intended to denigrate Senator Warren, and it seems disingenuous for you to claim that you were merely stating a fact.
It’s not just Imm; your comment came off as racist to me as well.
@Kent: The SCOTUS could declare that federal law unconstitutional. But other than that, sure.
@schrodingers_cat: Yeah, no. I grew up in North Texas. People routinely would note that they had Native American ancestors in passing, and I’m sure the same was true across the border in OK. It’s completely routine to do so. Now, you can say that times have changed, but you then cannot pillory her for having done it long ago. And furthermore, the damn GrOPers put her in a position where she was damned-if-she-do, damned-if-she-don’t.
Bravo, Mr. Cole! Bravo!
You don’t need 60 votes. Nothing in the constitution about 60 votes. You only need 50. We got here by the GOP trashing the filibuster for SCOTUS nominees. The three newest SCOTUS appointees were all confirmed with only 50 votes. We can get out of it by doing the same thing for civil rights legislation of which this qualifies.
SCOTUS can theoretically strike down anything but the need a plausible reason. The fact that we are here at all is because the Democrats have relied on Roe for 50 years instead of doing their fucking jobs and putting it into statute like they should have the many many times they have held power since 1972.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@debbie: I don’t find it particularly relevant here, but I don’t see how SC pointing out Warren’s history of claiming Native ancestry is racist. It happened. And Warren took trump’s bait, and a whole lot of Native people were outraged by her flagging of a DNA test.
@Kent: This is why we need to keep the house and the senate in 2022. And add at least a couple of seats in the Senate.
@WaterGirl: And that is why GOTV continues to matter.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Bringing up Warren at all given the context that she was replying to was already weird, and then fixating on the Native American stuff, given that there was already no reason up bring her up in the first place even more so.
Don’t forget, companies don’t give a shit about women’s rights so we can’t count on companies moving business out of the states banning abortion. What we have going for us is D voting counties have all the money and we need to use it.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
It’s how she’s used it time and again to denigrate Warren. Whatever her heritage, it shouldn’t have been used to dismiss her candidacy.
@debbie: How is pointing out what Warren actually did racist?
From the Washington Post story.
Further in the story
No, they couldn’t. They could pass such a law, and the Supreme Court could still invalidate it for stupid, made up reasons. That’s exactly what happened to the Voting Rights Act in the Shelby County decision. A law that passed the Senate unanimously was overturned by the Supreme Court on the flimsiest of pretenses. That’s exactly why the Right has focused so heavily on the judiciary and especially on the Supreme Court. As long as they have the Court, they can invalidate anything passed by the elected branches of the government.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Because their hero is never wrong and can only be wronged.
@Omnes Omnibus: Absolutely. It’s not everything, but without it, we don’t win.
Necessary but not sufficient, as they say.
I am so excited about the $90k for Wisconsin. They can’t promise anything, of course, but they are pretty confident that they will be able to find us a double-match for Michigan. We also have 2 angel donors who have offered to get us started with Michigan in February!
The point is that this is only a SCOTUS issue to begin with because Dems have allowed that to be the case. Sure SCOTUS can declare anything unconstitutional including Medicare, Social Security, and the Defense Department budget. But they need to have a plausible reason.
I’m sick of the notion that Dems have no agency in this affair. They have plenty of agency. They just choose not to use it, or even mention it.
And you felt it was important to bring that up tonight exactly why?
Please don’t tar all Dems with those comments. There are a ton of Dems who don’t fit your description above.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@Kent: that 50 votes cuts both ways. you act as if the republicans haven’t had a majorly in both houses and the WH during the past 50 years. They’ve never carved out a filibuster exception to pass a law outlawing abortion. and if there was a pro choice law enacted, you can believe the republicans would have used their majorities to overturn it via the carve out.
So no, we’re not here because of Dems, because such a law would have been overturned 20 years ago under Dubya’s regime.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Eolirin: SC doesn’t like Warren. And as I said, I don’t think her heritage is particularly relevant, but I don’t see how SC is being racist by bringing it up. But I don’t particularly want to go down the rabbit hole of Warren’s presidential campaign and what it suggests about her political judgment.
@Roger Moore: Sure. And the Dems could have fixed all the problems with the previous voting rights act (that it only targeted former Jim Crow states) with the John Lewis Voting Rights Act. But they haven’t because of Manchin and Sinema.
The idea that you don’t or can’t do anything because SCOTUS might strike it down is learned helplessness. Make them take the fucking vote. And then respond again when they do. Don’t just give up.
@debbie: It is not her heritage that is problematic. I have utmost respect for Deb Halaand and Sharice Davids. It is that is another data point towards her not being trustworthy. YMMV.
I’m going to start the Church of Reproductive Rights that has one tenet – reproductive rights. And then we’ll sue any state or locality that denies us our one deeply held religious belief (so deeply held, it’s our only belief).
@schrodingers_cat: What you’re doing is like walking up to a group that’s discussing some aspect of vegetarianism and shouting out “You know who else was a vegetarian? Hitler!”
Please stop. It’s entirely pointless to the conversation. We get that you don’t like Warren. Please stop inserting that dislike in places that don’t have anything to do with her. There was literally no reason to bring her up at all.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s possible to not like Senator Warren and even make a reference to her position on TTP without bringing up bullshit Republican talking points in a discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with what Senator Warren put on a form in the year 19-whatever.
@guachi: Excellent idea. I would join your church.
@Eolirin: Hillary supported TPP until the polling scared her away..
Once tfg dropped out, the rest of the countries dumped the worst of IP provisions, changed the name and ratified it.
She has that issue, but it is not relevant or germane here to this argument. This seems like a poor thread to hash out that particular debate, unless the plan is to use it to negate anything else she has to say about anything.
I doubt it because the GOP wants a riled up base not one that has already gotten everything they want. And outlawing abortion by Federal statute in the Bush years would have driven a stake through their party at that time. But whatever. The point on the filibuster is that the GOP really doesn’t even bother to legislate anymore. Their three main agenda items are tax cuts, SCOTUS and lower court appointees, and deregulation. And they have managed to rig the game so that none of their priorities requires a 60 vote majority while every single Dem priority does.
Since this is an open thread, I have a question. I have been getting emails from a group calling themselves United Rural Democrats. They are difficult if not impossible to contact. I’m not on Twitter, but they have a Facebook page with few posts, none recent, and they don’t reply. They supposedly have a website, but it’s a 404. They keep calling me “Adriano” (which is not my name) in their repeated emails for donations. They hoped I had a good thanksgiving in San Marin (which is far, far from where I live). So originally I was just trying to contact them to tell them their mailing list, whatever its source, is messed up. Then I got suspicious as to whether the group actually exists other than as a “fundraising” attempt.
Now, today, “Adriano” is getting a fundraising appeal from a group supposedly called “Democracy for Puerto Rico”. I can find no evidence of that group whatsoever, either on social media or a website.
Is there anywhere I should report this? It seems like a scam. I get plenty of fundraising appeals, but the rest of them use my actual name.
The meaning of beat a dead horse is to keep talking about a subject that has already been discussed or decided.
No, they don’t need a plausible reason. The like to have a plausible reason to give them cover, but when it gets down to it they will happily make up some BS, as they did in decisions like Heller and Shelby County, if it gets them to where they’re going.
@dnfree: Sounds like a scam. If you use gmail, mark it as spam and you’ll never see it again.
@dnfree: I think we should all call you Adriano from now on. Just saying.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WaterGirl: I already said I don’t think it’s relevant. I also said I don’t think it’s racist.
And the way she handled the whole thing does speak to Warren’s political judgment. As does her harping on the “stroke of a pen” notion with regard to student debt, which encourages the kind of Green Lanternism and maximalist expectations– and anything less is a “fayl-yuh!”– and twitter politics that are very relevant to how we got where we are today.
@dnfree: That’s kind of creepy, and it definitely doesn’t sound legit. Unfortunately I have no idea who you would contact about it. I bet someone here will know, though.
Maybe you could report them to Facebook?
Your learned helpless is unbecoming.
Why even bother to vote in any upcoming Congressional election if, as you say, none of it matters because SCOTUS will just nix anything that Congress does. Why do we even care about maintaining Democratic majorities if we can’t use them for anything?
There have been threads where commenters have dismissed what was happening at the state level to focus on the idea that only Roe was important, or to dump on RBG for not retiring or some other obsession with the Supreme Court.
You obviously know the law and have a good take on this. I ain’t no lawyer. But I listened to a good chunk of the Supreme Court today and tried to pay attention to how the conservatives appeared to be looking for the best way to eviscerate Roe. They were aware that they would perceived to be taking away a fundamental right.
I also listened to legal experts here in Southern California talk about how the Court could essentially eliminate Roe while letting it stand.
Vox has a good piece on this here.
I am an ignorant doofus with respect to the law, but I got the idea that one line of attack by the conservatives on the Court would be to bypass any question about right to privacy and simply declare that the Court had no business ruling on abortion, that it was simply up to the states.
There is a contradiction here, of course, in that they would not be asserting anything about an inherent right to life with respect to a fetus, and making it a coin toss based on whatever state the woman where a woman might live.
But the right wing would still take this as a win and be deliriously happy.
The conservatives on the Court don’t appear to believe in reproductive choice at all. The only question is how best to eliminate it while pretending to respect the integrity of the Court.
And the right wing has never much believed in a right of privacy, so nothing new there.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: See my comment at #95. I don’t have the energy for Elizabeth Warren bullshit today.
@WaterGirl: Thank you. My original thought driving home from work was that it was silly until I realized that people really do deeply care about reproductive rights. There are 10s of millions of Americans who aren’t really attached to organized religion so might be open to such a movement. Plus, the tenets aren’t gender specific.
The tenets I have in my head boil down to usage of/access to contraception, IVF, surgery to prevent pregnancy, and abortion. That is, the Church of Reproductive Freedom is about the freedom to have or not have children and the access and usage of means to achieve that. I’m not good with words but I’d keep the tenets as short as possible.
Mike in Pasadena
In today’s oral argument, Kavanaugh gave a speech about how the Supremes have in the past tromped all over stare decisis, that is, they don’t give a damn about precedent. He listed about six or seven cases including Obergefell. I went back to read the decision. The Supremes reversed the Sixth Circuit’s decision (the case at bar in Obergefell), but did not reverse a single Supreme court decision. Obergefell cited several Supremes’ decisions but at the time Obergefell was decided/issued, the decisions they relied on were (and still are) “good law.” In other words, the “I like beer” justice was talking out of his ass, as usual.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WaterGirl: I saw your comment at 95. it’s your comment at 63 that bothered me
You, and others, chose to pour gasoline on a very small fire
@schrodingers_cat: Stop digging.
I remember seeing photos of lines of young women coming off airplanes as they returned to Ireland to vote on this. Am I remembering that right? It was very moving.
@Doug R: Please reread what I wrote in the full context of what I’m replying to.
I am of course aware of this.
As a commenter says: “A real family man.”
@guachi: Count me in too.
Good question. It’s the holidays and scams are increasing. But I don’t know that there is any official clearinghouse for reporting them.
I just try to ignore them and never reply to anything that looks bogus.
I’m not happy with the situation with the Supreme Court, but saying we should just pass whatever laws we like and the Court will just let them stand is ignoring reality. Any serious plan to fix the country needs to deal with the fact the right wing has focused on the Supreme Court for the past generation or two precisely because they want it to invalidate anything the Democrats pass. I don’t know what the right solution is, but pretending it’s not a problem isn’t it.
Odds are that it’s more just that you’re becoming a knee-jerk repetitive bore about her and irregardless of her merit or anyone’s support for her candidacy, we’ve seen the 14 carousels of your vacation slides in monomania already.
@Kent: After several attempts to contact the first group were fruitless, I did finally unsubscribe, and now here comes a second suspicious-looking group. The desire to “fix” things like this comes from my long-time career. (When I started, it was Data Processing, then Information Systems, finally Information Technology. I mostly identify with the “Systems” part.) More than once I have called places and asked to speak to their technical staff to tell them what’s wrong with their system, and I’ve been retired almost ten years. Sometimes they even appreciate the information.
Economic populism advocated by the likes of Warren and Sanders made Trump possible. Economic populism never ends well for the minorities and ultimately only helps the right wing.
Since a commenter has already wished for my death, I think I will take the hint stop commenting.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
That’s the exact reason Susan Sarandon, Michael Moore, Nader and the usual suspects used to support the canard that “there was no difference btwn Bush and Gore” and “Trump will lead to a glorious revolution”. When confronted with the argument that a republican would damage women’s rights they would insist it was only lip service to string along the rubes and they would never do it because it would damage their turnout operation.
This kind of denial or alternatively credit to the gop acting rationally, albeit scheming, in their self interest is what has led us to this point.
The christo-facist republicans are who we thought they were.
@Mike in Pasadena: He’s sloppy and shouldn’t have included Obergefell, but the court has overturned its own precedent before. Lochner v NY was decided in a way that would make labor law basically unconstitutional and the court reversed it. Brown overturned previous precedent. It has to be allowed to happen some times. We can’t really have that both ways. We should be more focused on impact that stare decisis. That’s not firm ground to stand on as a counter argument.
Okay. I’ve just started a new church and made it official by changing my Twitter handle. The Church of Reproductive Freedom is open for business. Anyone know how to set up a church or a non-profit?
Church of Reproductive Freedom
The Church of Reproductive Freedom has one deeply held religious belief, reproductive freedom. This freedom consists in having access to and the freedom to use:
2) in vitro fertilization
3) surgery to prevent pregnancy
Laws that prevent any of the above are in direct violation of our lone deeply held religious beliefs.
No parent should let a child be interviewed by police without a lawyer present.
But I hope the parents can be charged – it will be a misdemeanor, btw, but that might be enough to deter one or two gun nut parents and stop a school shooting or vigilante case or whatnot
Made a stiff drink to steel myself for Rachel Maddow’s show. I have avoided most of the brouhaha today.
Can’t we just get a divorce etc…?
Thank you. John. Truth here in what you wrote. Uncomfortable? Fuckin’ A. Truth nonetheless.
I’ve been stuck in a hotel for the week. Last night I had a couple of drinks and ended up watching some Laura Ingram. Holy Shit, it really was like discovering an alternate Universe. Nothing but constant lying. The had that had Ken Starr on to bald faced lie about abortion, and how it was the duty of the Supreme Court to overturn Roe. Lauren Boebert came by so that Laura could help “rehabilitate” her nonsense. She was incredibly unsound, and at one point blathered some crazyness about how Democrats wouldn’t stop until abortions were happening at 3 months,or 6 months or even after birth. WTF! The Democrat party was constantly portrayed as a barbarian horde out to destroy Merica. The ads were incredible. Eagles, waving flags, and everyone just grifting for freedom. It all had a sly wink to “you know this right?”, “Of course this is right, the Dems are out to kill your family”. The whole thing made a Paul Verhoeven film look tame and normal. Nightmares.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It feels to me like you are fanning the flames, so I guess we just see this differently.
I saw the original comment as a gratuitous dig with racist overtones – with no other purpose than sniping at Senator Warren on a thread that had nothing to do with her.
I think we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.
@guachi: John and Wanda Jo can help.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Tom Levenson: In my more optimistic moments, I think about how CA was governed (badly) by Rs until they went too far and their house of cards collapsed. Maybe the whole country will be like that.
@WaterGirl: He does have one point, namely that we could have treated it like trolling, even though SC is most definitely not a troll, and just not responded to it at all.
But that never happens around here anyway, even with obvious and blatant actual trolls so…
@Eolirin: And people that get labelled trolls or russians who are not.
@Sam: I’m still shocked by the fact that a majority of white women voted for Trump. Anybody who supported Trump is now suffering the consequences. Unfortunately, the rest of us will suffer also. As has been the case at least since 1861 in this country — the problem is white people (male and female). (I’m classified as “white” myself –Italian-American — but I’m not proud of that designation.) If things ever get better, they’ll get a lot worse first.
I suspect this is one of those things that tries to skirt the line between legitimate political action and outright scam. They probably buy emails from low quality sources because that’s cheap, and your incorrect information was probably added recently. Sadly, they probably don’t care that a lot of the information they’ve received is junk. That’s built into their cost model.
@Craig: I listen some of that, thru a filter of humor, and oh yes, its an entirely different world. Check out Bannon’s ” War Room” sometime. Boebert and MTG are regulars. Also “Diamond and Silk.’ Good lord!
I do think it’s important to know whats being said on that side, painful as it may be, so I listen to Hal Sparks podcast on youtube. He plays clips of these folks and rips them to shreds. Keeps me informed and it’s just the right brand of sarcasm to suit me
Eta: It was watching Matt Gaetz on “War Room” that I learned some of Bannon’s ex staff are on Gaetz congressional staff. Nice, huh?
What @Tom Levenson: said.
I do agree we need to look for ways to help those most vulnerable right now. In the long run, though, the crazies don’t have decades because we don’t have decades. I don’t know how we’re going to turn this around, but we will. The radicals on the Supreme Court want to take this country in a certain direction. But the energy of the people isn’t moving in that direction. As an example, a bunch of people just mass quit their jobs because they’re tired of the bullshit. As a woman, I don’t speak for all women, but I say with some confidence that we are not fucking going back to the 50s. So, like John said, we stay pissed. And we work for change and we take advantage of opportunities. History turns on a dime.
@Tony Gerace: So apparently it wasn’t a majority (bad initial data), though close. Plurality probably.
@guachi: If you’re going to found a church, you need to pass the plate. Also register it with the government so you are tax exempt.
I like the idea.
eta When you get enough in the plate retain a lawyer.
Revenge email? Did you make someone so mad they signed you up for a scammy fundraising email list? ?
I would block the sender(s).
John, there’s a big difference between saying “today was a real bad day” and saying “I give up.” People who posted earlier saying the former didn’t necessarily mean the latter. On the bright side, Jose Feliciano, who has to be older than me, just performed at the NBC Rockefeller Center tree lighting special.
Rachel did her entire opening segment on that!
@jnfr: They took boats across the Irish Sea. The boats took them to the UK where abortion was legal. And then they were brought back. And no one was waiting at the dock to ridicule them.
Edit so sorry I thought you were asking about how Irish women got abortions.
Yes. If you are an Irish citizen you have to vote in person. Yeah. They all came back. Just to vote.
As usual, J.C. has been paying attention and nails it.
No one in the past four generations of my direct lineage has lived past 75. I turned 75 several months ago, and right now I’m looking at that abbreviated prospect as a good thing, for maybe I won’t have to see things get an awful lot worse. (Yes, Rethuglicans, I hear you saying “Hold my beer.”) I’m profoundly discouraged and revolted by the current state of this country, which I too have seen coming for a very long time. I’ve been fighting for years—but losing. Nevertheless, I guess I’ll keep punching, albeit feebly. I did have one Canadian grandmother (who died at 52), and a number of my Canadian friends have sincerely offered to sponsor me for citizenship, something I might ponder if I weren’t too stubborn to be run out of a country my family has been in since 1640.
She was a fairly decent local politician and sometimes even somewhat independent in her early day; those are long over. She’s another fight I lost.
@Eolirin: I usually bite my tongue but I’m tired tonight and didn’t ignore it. On the rare occasions when I do that, I usually regret not biting my tongue.
That’s really well put. Thank you.
Thanks for the update. The images were so striking.
@schrodingers_cat: She has a white person’s idea of what it means to be indigenous. I don’t blame white people for being white people.
This is from the Alexandra Petri article I front-paged earlier today:
“As if she would not fight.” Read the whole thing.
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: Sure. But voting for conservative SCOTUS appointees who might maybe someday cripple, dial back or otherwise repeal Roe is light years different from ramming an El Salvador style outright ban on abortion through Congress and White House.
The fact that the GOP or conservative SCOTUS might possibly someday respond is never a good reason not to do the right thing. Make them actually respond. Then if they do, make the next move. I’m just objecting to the constant Dem handwringing that they can’t actually ever do anything because the GOP or SCOTUS might toss it out. Maybe. But make them actually do it and pay the price.
@WaterGirl: I bite my tongue less than I should, but I’m in a similar place right now too. :/
Been a rough day.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Then isn’t the solution, short of packing/expanding it, to ignore the Supreme Court’s BS decisions? When it’s as radical as it is?
From the time she was a little girl, her family had told her about their Native heritage. IIRC, her father’s people were opposed to his marrying a woman with American Indian blood. This was all part of what Warren knew and understood about her heritage. She wasn’t trying to deceive anybody. I can’t believe this is still a conversation.
@WaterGirl: Perfect! Saw that earlier and meant to read, but got interrupted by work, so thanks for the reminder and link!
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Please explain how that would work? Would we ignore all courts? Just the decisions we don’t like? How does that work for the other side, do they ignore the decisions they don’t like?
Especially as it is entirely irrelevant to Roe, etc.
https://rcrc.org/ is a religious organization that already exists to expand pro choice
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Not a solution. It would unravel rule of law entirely.
I’d rather let the other side pull the trigger on tearing the entire legal underpinnings of the country apart if it comes to that.
Packing/expanding the courts is the only valid move beyond simply holding the senate and white house long enough for the conservative justices to die off enough.
My thought about this today was: ‘this is war’.
Yes, it was already war. But I think the number of people who are at that point doubled today.
And we’re going to have to win a war by some means to pry these people off their illegitimate minority power
Let’s go out and win this.
@Roger Moore: I suspect you are right!
ETA that “United Rural Democrats” seemed to originate from Ames, IA, back in April. I’m wondering if they set something up and then a scammy group took it over. The sad part is that some kind of effort for Rural Democrats would probably be an excellent idea.
Yes. I would pay to have a plan skywrite that line.
I see the barn door swinging in the breeze, Suzy. She’s always happy to pretend to speak up when it’s too late or to vote when it doesn’t matter. Just saw this on Political Wire and am ramping to give “my” senator a call, though I know it’s waste; I just need to vent. At least my other senator, Angus King, is excellent.
@guachi: You should add gender-affirming treatment for Transgender people to your list.
They can’t keep a lie alive if they don’t keep talking about it.
@Skepticat: Sen Collins: ‘oh golly, golly golly me, those dag nabbed Republican leaders done be-foozled me!’
Yes. Yes. Yes.
There’s a lot of truth to all these short sentences in the latest comments on this thread.
I’m heading to bed.
Our goal was for the pet calendars to be order-able by December 1 – we are are close but we are going to be a day or two late.
@WaterGirl: I wish we didn’t have a Manchin and Sinema to contend with and could call her bluff.
@schrodingers_cat: and your grudges can never be wrong. Give it a rest. Bringing up this matter over and over in the middle of discussions that have nothing to do with it is past tiresome.
People around here always claim at least 3 different ancestral lines. We are mostly mutts and it gives us something to talk about around the copy machine. She does have native ancestry. She doesn’t have tribal membership. We now know all about it and mostly don’t care.
“Help us Obi Wan Suzi, you’re our only hope. Holy fuck, we’re screwed!”
Remember Suzie looking into li’l Brett’s heart and finding Roe was “settled law”? Good times.
Well, 2022 is gonna be lit.
Maybe literally as well as metaphorically.
I’m in for the Underground RR idea. I live in the State of Washington, where legal abortion is enshrined in our state Constitution. It’d be an honor to provide aid and comfort to pregnant people fleeing the New Antebellum states.
Just a slight redirect:
Many or most of the marchers in the GOP that have been “working for this moment” in fact have no opinion at all about abortion itself. Their only attachment to the issue is as a means to power. And you’ll get most of their moves wrong if you think they care about abortion itself or even less directly about “controlling women” or whatever. They have some attachment to patriarchy and hierarchy but wvwm that is a far, far second to just the desire to weild power. The abortion issue has fused the profoundly ammoral $$ wing and profoundly immoral and pious “values” wing into a surprising political force. We’ll see what happe s now that they caught the car…. But no… Unfortunately this is not THE moment they’ve all been working for. Would that it were, because then they’d be done. There isn’t any bottom to this. We pick up and fight or find out how low they can go.
@schrodingers_cat: I disagree. I don’t think economic populism had anything to do with Trump. Trump was racism and nationalism and religious rule. Trump didn’t even have an economic position except for him getting richer. I don’t think he even cared about other rich people.
Sanders and to an extent Warrens appeal came as a reaction to the last 40 years of greed is good not trickling down to the middle and lower classes. It is well overdue and can’t be stopped at this point. The only question is how smart we are about implement reforms. With the wrong leadership, it can go bad too. I am not all that impressed with Warren but she is better than Sanders. She can be helpful but I hope she isn’t the leader. We need more than 50 Senators and we will need her. She doesn’t have to be perfect, just mostly OK.
Well said, John.
Putting on my cynical hat – the kicker is that the very same conservatives are keeping any real climate action from happening. I have a feeling that we might’ve already shot past a tipping point. Not necessarily that civilization will end or the Earth will be uninhabitable, but just that much wide-scale agriculture won’t be available. I’m not a plant expert, but my understanding is that a lot of plants ,including crops, can’t germinate except under pretty moderate conditions.
Many of these saved fetuses will join their parents and the younger conservatives (and many of us) in starving to death in the next 20 or 40 years.
What you said. Trump was the culmination of a fascist RW wet dream launched during the Cold War by John Birchers and their ilk. Once Reagan brought the fundies on board the RWers stopped being a punchline and started to steer the ship. Trump proved it does not much matter who the figurehead is.
When Joan Vennochi hangs up her (figurative) typewriter, you should consider applying to the Glob for her position.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: wait a second. If gratuitously bringing up Warren’s Native American ancestry or lack thereof in a topic that has nothing to do with Native American ancestry is not racist, then pray tell what is?
Me too. I like that it doesn’t rely on waiting for someone else to “do something”, that we’ll be running it. We don’t need any high level help.
One thing I would like to strongly urge all of you here to do if you can, something positive and tangible and feasible since somehow it seems like some of y’all have money to burn, is to donate to abortion funds. Not PP or other giant orgs, but either your local funds or ones in areas run by retrogressive cavemen. These funds use every single dollar to go directly to people in need, to help pay for the procedure itself or for transportation, hotel, child care, etc. Depending on the pregnant person’s circumstances, we could be talking thousands they would need and often don’t have. It’s the absolute best way to put your money to good use in this area. You can either donate to the overarching National Network or find a specific local fund to give to.
Everything I feel has already been said, but I will note that medication abortions exist and I bet there will be a booming business.
And the red parts of the country are about to get even more backward.
Speaking of art, …
I’m shocked, shocked to read this.
I’m just dying for the days when they try to get their children into out-of-state blue colleges only to have their high school diplomas rejected for insufficient education. In about ten years that will be a right wing outrage. I’m calling it now.
I haven’t been following the news a lot, so I may have missed it – is there any talk about safeguarding voting rights and elections, or is the focus 100% on whether or not the US defaults on the national debt?
@Yutsano: I am remembering back to the slavish cock sucking America’s City governments gave to Amazon in pursuit of HQ2. Everyone hates the “professional-managerial class” but they love our money and our labor. Those people will never want to live in a shithole state.
@Suzanne: I was talking to a friend at work about this. What the South looked like, before FDR put the TVA there. Lots of backwoods still didn’t have electricity or running water well into the 1950s.
We also talked about how the US was a collection of disparate regions before FDR, HST, and LBJ. You had the urbane areas on the coasts, the Wild West in the Southwest….and then you had the South. A byword for ignorance, savagery, and plain bad-crazy. Read novels set in that time period; it was like a time machine going back to Pre-Enlightenment times, particularly in terms of how they thought. (Not just on racial matters; that whole Big Daddy thing, too.)
We’re going back to that.
Here’s Justice Barrett suggesting that the state forcing childbirth isn’t a big deal, because the woman can just drop the baby off for adoption :
She apparently thinks this is a wildly original thought that never occurred to anyone else.
Maybe it was better when they overturned it by decree with no opinion. It’s more disturbing to find out how little they know (or care) about any of this.
Barrett and Kavanaugh are the best because they just come right out with the GOP talking points. Expect to see that one on the GOP House twitter. That’s Marjorie Taylor Greene level material right there.
They revel in their ignorance. Not in the sense that they think they’re ignorant; it’s more like Dunning-Kruger on steroids (the “steroids” being their power to impose their Dunning-Kruger-ness on the rest of the country).
Are you old enough to remember Roman Hruska? [Serious question.] Because his “mediocre” quote — although laughed at, at the time — was far too optimistic (so to speak). These mofos are from the far left side of the Gaussian distribution (a/k/a Bell Curve).
@Suzanne: I think you’re right. Guttmacher has some numbers:
Lots more excellent, sensible, factual information at Guttmacher.
Leah Litman had a good liveblog/twitter thread:
It’s just political games to them, and it’s infuriating.
Remember when Scalia went to just to basically shouting whatever Fox news was promoting that week as he got older?
Now we have three like that- Kavanaugh, Alito and Barrett. The onset of whatever that is must be earlier now.
@Alison Rose: did it, $50. thanks for providing options.
@Kay: they never want to admit that adoption is only an alternative to parenthood, not pregnancy
also that book is so good but so heartbreaking, especially for me, since my aunt was one of those girls (not specifically in the book) and she was never the same after that
@persistentillusion: you rock
Sister Golden Bear
Unfortunately not really new. See Jim Crow, contraceptive rights, gay rights pre-Oberfeld, trans rights today.
Yes, I realize you were referring to the SCOTUS’ POV but there’s been a long, sordid history of state and federal judges being more than willing to make rights contingent on where one lives.
@Eolirin: Agree. But if wishes were fishes…
@Another Scott: goldbrick con. It’s the old made new again for a new medium. Same as it ever was.
You can tell she thinks she’s adding some great new insight here:
Eureka! You can SEPARATE the mother from the baby, post-birth! This is the kind of super-smart analysis that really justifies that lifetime appointment.
Oh, that’s sad about your aunt. It’s too bad because I think she’s giving adoptive parents a bad name that they don’t deserve. Let’s not make her the spokesperson. Not good.
@Alison Rose: I ran an abortion loan fund in the 80s. We loaned the money interest free. We had an agreed-upon payment structure up front based on how much each woman could afford every month, and in the time that I ran it, every single woman paid back every penny of the original loan.
I’m sure there are a lot of experienced people who will be willing to do what is needed in order to help other women. I am still holding out hope that this ruling doesn’t gut Roe. But there’s a very good chance that my hopes will be dashed.
Dahlia Lithwick has a good piece in Slate: “The Supreme Court Will Continue to Gaslight Us Until the End.”
For the folks in the bleachers
Zandar And The Holiday Tardigrade (@ZandarVTS) tweeted at 10:22 PM on Wed, Dec 01, 2021:
It was never going to stop with Roe.
They’re going for the last 70+ years of civil, voting, and women’s rights and for the federal mechanisms that guarantee those rights and enforcement of those protections.
Vastly different rights based solely on location
No longer a country.
I can’t get over the student-taken video I watched where the kids in the room believe that the plainclothes police outside the door is the gunman pretending to be police. I think it’s wild that they were that level-headed and careful. They have this dialogue with the guy outside the door where they’re telling him it’s too risky to open the door (they think he’s the shooter) and the police officer says “bro” at one point and one of the kids says “red flag!” – they think that means he’s a teenager, so the shooter.
Our kids are now experts at “roaming shooter” scenarios. They thought of all the angles.
@Alison Rose: Thanks very much for the pointer.
@Kay: My God, do they not think anything through? Do they think there’s magically going to be more social workers to deal with an influx of babies to process for adoption and more households that want them? Have they seen the state of our foster systems? They’re already horribly underfunded.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay: that video is haunting
“He said bro!
ETA: there’s a fifteen year old on the other side of that door, waiting and hoping to kill other teenagers
They don’t care.
@Another Scott: you’re awesome
Who else sees a backlash against the fascists coming over the next decade?
Either that or the breakup of the US.
SCOTUS could be just the thing that opens the floodgates.
Cowgirl in the Sandi
Can you put Allison Rose’s link to overarching National Network or specific local funds to give to in the listings on the right so we can find it more easily. I think many might be willing to donate but may have not seen this thread…
@Eolirin: Here’s the thing about the motherfucking Greens: The entire premise of their existence is that there is no difference at all between the democrats and the republicans so you might as well vote 3rd party. But everyone with the brain knows that 3rd parties will never win. So if you accept the premise of the green party’s existence, your response will probably not be to go to all the trouble of throwing your vote away, but rather simply to stay home. I am convinced that for every one person who voted for Jill Stein, at least 5 bought into the lie that there’s no difference between democrats and republicans and then just stayed home on election day. Is the period
@SFAW: It undercuts the argument being made though. Just because you shift the burden of parenthood off the person who might have gotten an abortion otherwise doesn’t mean that burden goes away. It still has to be born by somebody. They’re vanishing the existence of the child.
@Kent: If the Dems expand their Senate margins they could do it. If SCOTUS does what we all think they could do, that will be a wedge issue to be used.
Their plausible reason is that Caroleen Products was wrongly decided and lochner should be the proper law. Congress would have no power to pass any law whatsoever based on the Commerce clause other than through then things pertaining to roads and airports. It would be the end of the entire governmental regulatory state and they can do it with one opinion.
@Citizen Alan: Sure but a larger number of people also voted for the greens in 2016 than usual, and they haven’t gotten anywhere near that number since either iirc. So maybe even more people stayed home, but efforts to mobilize voters for the greens did actually work to some degree. Those were people willing to turn out.
I don’t think they quite anticipated most of our reaction to a too often fatal virus. Note only 20-30% of adults are going along with them.
@Tom Levenson: Thank you, Tom. I agree.
@The Truffle: I want the Rt wingers crushed; ground into powder. And the nation split up. That’s where this is headed.
Using the Central Park Jogger attack as an example, the cops got the kids to fake-confess before the parents even showed up.
I didn’t disagree with your logic/premise (re: thinking things through, etc.) I just think the Party of Traitors doesn’t care about the consequences to anyone they think of as less American/human.
I couldn’t agree more. It has been fighting time since Charlottesville. As far as music goes, Check out Monster by Fake Frank, a band out of Long Island. The Monster of the title refers to American Fascism.
@Yutsano: nah – they’ll have Liberty U and others to turn to
@Cowgirl in the Sandi: I think I would need an explanation of what they use those funds for and how they are distributed before we would put up a link. I can’t tell from that whether the funds would go to lobbying or 100% direct support of women, or somewhere in between.
I thought there was one organization where 100% of the funds go directly to women. ?
If you (or someone) want to do a little research and then send me some info by email, that would be helpful. Please include the link please so I don’t have to hunt for it. thanks
@Omnes Omnibus: Well, I think that if the fascist trend continues, the divorce will happen.
Either there is a huge, HUGE backlash against these fascist nutjobs or the US goes the way of Yugoslavia within a decade.
That is my prediction. For what it’s worth, the extreme right-wingers have bandied about the idea of secession/national divorce since the Obama years.
Shorter comment section, it is not racist to assume/appropriate Native American identity at key junctures in one’s professional career. But it is racist to mention it with a corroborating link from the Washington Post.
The context was TPP which would have been a key achievement for the first black President which the senator helped tank.
@Tom Levenson: I hope you are correct. The way demographics and society are going, I hope this is an extinction burst. If you look at the real Trumperdink nuts, they are long in the tooth. How many people came of age during the Obama years and have no use for Trumperdinks
@Kent: She didn’t vote for Barrett, but only because she knew her vote was inconsequential and wouldn’t actually prevent Barrett from getting seated. And then she turned around and used her “no” vote
a few weekseight days later to sway her gullible electorate that she really was supportive of reproductive rights, and managed to win enough crossover Biden voters in Maine to keep her job for another six years.
HAHAHAHAHA. That’s adorable.
Which part of the Constitution says the Supreme Court can’t strike down settled laws unless they have a “plausible reason”? And who decides what constitutes a “plausible reason”?