Authorities in Michigan say they may charge the parents of the 15-year-old who perpetrated the latest school shooting. Good. That should happen more often but usually doesn’t, perhaps because some states don’t have laws requiring adults to keep The Precious away from minors. Here’s hoping Michigan does.
The latest school shooter’s parents seem like lovely people. The Daily Beast uncovered an open letter to Donald Trump that the mother posted on Facebook in November 2016:
“As a female and a Realtor, thank you for allowing my right to bear arms,” the letter continued. “Allowing me to be protected if I show a home to someone with bad intentions. Thank you for respecting that Amendment.”
She complained about parents at other schools where the “kids come from illegal immigrant parents” and “don’t care about learning.”
It was signed, “A hard working Middle Class Law Abiding Citizen who is sick of getting fucked in the ass and would rather be grabbed by the pussy.”
The father replied, “My wife can be spot on. Sometimes.” Funny, I can’t think of a single school shooting incident involving “kids com[ing] from illegal immigrant parents.”
There’s an awful video that I won’t share taken by a student during the shooting. There’s no violence depicted, just the fear those kids and a teacher experienced while huddled behind desks in a dark classroom as someone pounded on the door. Was it a sheriff or a shooter? They weren’t about to open the door to find out. It’s haunting.
We choose to live this way. We choose to subject our children to this madness. Not all of us, of course. But enough of us think this is okay, so we all have to live this way, with active shooter drills and real-life tests of them a routine part of American life. It’s shameful. That’s all I have to say about that.
Open thread.
rikyrah
They were making life and death analysis in real time. One wrong move and their parents would have visited them in the morgue.
That situation is completely ridiculous.
CaseyL
We’re a failed state. The majority of the population wants things -not crazy things; things the rest of the civilized world not only has but takes for granted – and our elected officials don’t want to give them to us. That’s not a democracy; that’s not a republic; it’s a corrupt oligarchy.
Old School
Truly shameful.
What might they charge the parents with?
NotMax
Expect an e-mail shortly from the Apple Anti-defamation League.
;)
RSA
Has McDonald read a newspaper in the past decade or two?
Rusty
Shameful is the right word. We are a nation where the majority act as children, adults hold themselves accountable and responsible and would take action.
Betty Cracker
@Old School: As far as I know, they haven’t specified potential charges, but the father bought the gun on Black Friday, and the shooter posted photos of himself holding and using it in the days after, as if it were HIS personal gun. Also, the cops raided the kid’s home and were seen carrying out a shitload of long guns. Maybe there are laws on the books there that gunowners have to take reasonable precautions to secure weapons from unsupervised minors. There are no laws like that where I live, but maybe there are in Michigan. I don’t know.
trollhattan
Anybody thinking the loss of Roe will send Trump women fleeing from the Republicans in horror need to know Jennifer Crumbley. Jennifer Crumbley does not give a fuck. Jennifer Crumbley is your neighborhood honey badger.
Soprano2
Also, the fact that horrible things like this keep happening add to people’s desire to put in more “security” to be protected. A couple of years ago (or maybe longer) they put ID swipe keys on the doors where I work. Never minds that a) we’re in a fenced compound that’s only open during working hours and b) we’re between a residential neighborhood and a major throughway. People were freaked out that someone a little strange could come in here, so they put these things in; IMHO it’s a huge waste of money, but we have them on all the buildings now. I’ve pointed out to people that usually when shootings happen it’s people you work with who already have ID’s, so the security system doesn’t really do much of anything other than inconvenience people who work here. What’s especially hilarious are the ones on the garages, where at least one garage door is almost always open during the day! It’s dumb, how fearful and unfriendly we’ve become in this society, all because conservatives want to have as many “death penises” as they can get.
Chris
@CaseyL:
As I’ve said multiple times, the NRA fulfills the same role in America that drug cartels or warlords do in places like Mexico, Afghanistan, Congo, etc. They’re traffickers who in any functioning society would be in jail but, because of the oddities and dysfunctions of the local political system plus their success in presenting as folk heroes to part of the population, are in fact in running large swaths of the show in partnership with the local government.
You know all those movies where the main character is a cop or a spy, and he has to pursue the villain to some corrupt third world hellhole whose government the villain actually owns? That’s America.
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
All that gun-buying stuff occurred after they had had a meeting scheduled at the school to discuss their kid’s “concerning” behavior. Scheduled, in fact, for the day of his murder spree.
Lapassionara
That letter to Trump. How completely vile. I hope someone asks her to explain why she felt that she was “being fucked in the ass.”
Even if the parents can’t be criminally charged, they can be sued for negligence by those who lost loved ones and by the others who were terrorized. I hope they have good homeowners insurance.
stinger
School shootings and forced birth. What a country.
NotMax
@Betty Cracker
Are background checks that quick or is there something fishy? In all honesty, don’t know how rapidly they take place.
Chris
Not all of us, of course. But it would be fucking nice if the anti-gun majority actually put some teeth into its political beliefs.
We see this over and over again in politics. Large majorities agree on something that’s obviously necessary – gun control, legalized abortion, amnesty for illegal immigrant children, taxes on the rich, vaccine mandates – but a shit ton of these people then insist that it’s not really so important and that the big thing is that we should try to get along with the absolute fucking loons in the other party who refuse to do any of these things, because surely they’ll eventually come around if we make enough cooing sounds and give them enough cookies, right? And then election season comes around and it turns out a shit ton of these people either couldn’t be bothered to vote or decided to vote for the other side anyway, because Nancy Pelosi reminds them of their mom or Christ knows what.
I realize there are a ton of anti-majoritarian points in our political system, but fuck if the number of assholes who would rather get along with the arsonist than stop him from burning down the house hasn’t got a lot to do with how we got here, too. As you say: we choose this.
Chris
@stinger:
“THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!” the pro-lifers say, as they hand little Timmy an AK-47 on his tenth birthday.
Betty Cracker
@NotMax: The article says it was a used gun, so if he bought it from an individual, no background check would be required, IIRC.
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: Virginia passed a law in 2020 making it a crime to have an unsecured firearm in a house with a minor present. That includes visitors, I believe. It and the five other gun safety laws passed were modest and overdue steps, but we have to start somewhere. And polling showed these laws were favored by 70%+ of registered voters.
stinger
@Chris: Family values!
Causticity Acerbity
For those curious, the sheriff has confirmed it was a deputy at the door in that video. Not that it changes the horror and trauma those kids were going through. And that fear now permeates all of our communities in metro Detroit. My 16 year old son has the day off school today because 14 of our local school districts within 20 miles of Oxford were inundated with unsubstantiated social media threats of violence last night and all the administrators felt it better to err on the side of caution and shut down. Some of the districts have already shut down for Friday as well. I alternate between relief that I know hes home safe today and anger that we’re allowing these monsters to shut down our entire school system.
NotMax
@Betty Cracker
Aha. Mention of Black Friday gives the impression it was purchased from a bona fide retail shop or dealer.
Betty
@Old School: Something like reckless endangerment should work. The school had notified them about concerns, and they left the gun in an accessible place.
germy
off topic, but I didn’t recognize Mike Pompeo:
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: You’re right; we have to start somewhere, and those are good steps in Virginia. Even in wingnut dominated Florida, we made progress thanks to the activism of the Parkland survivors and their supporters, including a three-day waiting period, raising the age for purchasing guns from 18 to 21 and red flag laws that allow the cops to confiscate weapons if someone is behaving erratically and/or threateningly. Thousands of guns have been confiscated under that new law, saving who knows how many lives.
Betty Cracker
@germy: He’s running!
Juju
I saw the video of the students and teacher who refused to open the door because they thought it might be the gunman. They were right not to open the door. That could very well have been the gunman. I was a teacher and I know the lockdown protocols, as do law enforcement, teachers and students. There’s a card system. If there’s a red card on the floor in front of the door, the law enforcement would reply they are seeking help. If there was not a card on the floor, they continue to check the next classrooms. They wouldn’t pound on the door and say they were law enforcement. They might tell the teacher to use the emergency exit in the classroom.
Major Major Major Major
I read a WaPo article about this yesterday, which did note that it’s unclear what law they might be charged under, since negligently leaving a gun around isn’t illegal there…
Juju
@Causticity Acerbity: I’m surprised to hear it was a sheriff.
germy
@Betty Cracker:
He’s tanned, thin and ready.
He had covid and some sort of throat trouble requiring an operation.
He’s a dangerous fanatic so I hope his campaign dissolves into a puddle.
Dusty Confetti
Mom’s a confirmed Trumper? Color me (not) surprised. She doesn’t sound all that different from a significant portion of our neighbors and coworkers.
I had to stop going to a local flea market/farmer’s market because it had basically turned into a Trump rally that sold guns and vegetables. (And it goes without saying, guns TO vegetables.)
eachother
I picture myself on the hard and cold hallway floor of my public school cowering against an unseen threat. I was too young to understand why this was happening but never forgetting the experience.
Now, Active Shooter drills. Same cold hard floor.
Ruckus
@NotMax:
Background checks? BACKGROUND CHECKS?
Are you insane? That would limit sales. That would allow the massive hoards of democrats to vote not to allow the sales of their precious weapons of freedumb. That would limit the availability of a firearm at at time when they need it most, when their delusional ignorance is most rampant.
trollhattan
Pompeo is as full of himself as any Republican, including Trump, Rudy, Ted, Rand. Of course he thinks he “deserves” to be president. Another day, another monster.
Kent
There is criminal law. But there is also civil law.
What are the chances that any of the dozens of victims of this shooting can file civil charges against the parent for negligence and sue for damages? Bankrupt the fuck out of them.
Kent
I suppose they could charge them as accessories if they actually gave the kid the gun and had even the slightest notion that he might use it.
Darkrose
@rikyrah: All that I could think of while watching that video was the kid who picked up on the red flag of the shooter using “bro”. That awareness saved lives, and there is also something profoundly broken in a society where kids have to make those split-second decisions. This country has chosen to worship Moloch.
lowtechcyclist
Can’t expose the poor dearies to the notion that white people may have oppressed black people here in the U.S.A. (might hurt their tender feelings, you know), but the threat of an active shooter? All that might involve is chunks of lead ripping through their bodies at high speed. That’s A-OK!
oatler
[Sex Pistols snarl] God save the queen!
https://globalnews.ca/news/8417379/queen-of-canada-covid-online-threats/
Kent
As a HS teacher for the past 15 years I have been through more of these sorts of active shooter drills than I can count. Plus other drills like “shelter in place” and evacuation, school bus safety and I don’t know what all else.
It is just mind-numbing .
The worst is when you have “Officer so and so” show up in tactical gear to lecture students or teachers. Usually they are dipshits.
zhena gogolia
These people are so disgusting. TFG really unearthed a lot of hideousness that I was turning a blind eye to.
mrmoshpotato
Because hooboy do I show homes to a lot of rapists and murderers! I am a terrible judge of character!
Enhanced Voting Techniques
News that obviously can’t be happening
https://www.wonkette.com/georgia-runoff-elections
This is context Stacy Abrams announced she is running for governor there. But it is a FACT and DONE DEAL that the Republicans have 2022 in the bag. So this didn’t happen.
evodevo
@Kent: Or sue the guy who sold the father the gun…
tom
School officials met with the suspect and his parents the morning of the shooting to discuss behavior the school found concerning.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2021/12/01/oxford-high-school-shooting-suspect-ethan-crumbley/8821482002/
mrmoshpotato
@Lapassionara:
Would a homeowners policy cover damages from a school shooting due to being massively irresponsible with owning guns?
JoyceH
@tom:
I wish some hot shot reporter could flesh that out for us a little bit.
Mallard Filmore
@Lapassionara:
Whatever the insurance is, it won’t cover the potential cost. The insurer will simply give the maximum payout to the parents and tell them “You are on your own.”
Causticity Acerbity
@Darkrose: The kids acted appropriately but it was actually law enforcement that inappropriately used “bro.” https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2021/12/01/oxford-high-school-shooting-video-classroom/8820367002/
Geminid
@germy: When Mike Pompeo left the Army, he and some partners bought an aviation components manufacturer in Wichita, Kansas. The Koch brothers helped finance the purchase. Pompeo went on to represent Wichita, home of Koch Industries headquarters. Pompeo is Koch’s blue eyed boy, so he will not lack for money when he runs. And now he has that “lean and hungry” look.
germy
@Kent:
https://youtu.be/vfONckOPyaI?t=8
The Dangerman
I doubt the Parents spend a day in jail but they are gonna be completely fucked in the ass when the lawsuits come calling. Assuming judgements can’t be discharged via bankruptcy, Mommy Dearest better be selling a bunch of homes.
Warblewarble
At the meeting with the school,did the parents inform the school that they had given a gun to their son?
Kent
@mrmoshpotato: Some people have something called “umbrella insurance” as a rider or separate policy attached to their homeowners policy. My wife and I have a $2 million umbrella policy and it wasn’t expensive.
Mostly it is to cover stuff like if something happens on your property, or if your teenage driver runs over someone or damages property. The point of having a big policy like $2 million is not because no claims could ever exceed $2 million. But because if the insurance company stands to lose $2 million they are going to roll out the big guns and really defend the case. Which protects you as well. You only pay out if a judgement comes in over $2 million and if that happens then the insurance company lawyers really really fucked up.
I don’t know if that is the case with this couple. But the size of their policy is going to determine how vigorously any insurance company is going to defend the claim. If it is a small policy they are likely to just settle for the insured amount and leave them to fend for themselves. If it is a really big policy they are likely to vigorously defend it.
Juju
@Causticity Acerbity: those kids did exactly what they were supposed to do. The deputy was probably as bright as Deputy Dawg. I’m not impressed. Even if he wasn’t aware of the lockdown procedure, given that the door window is covered and nobody should be near the door, what did he expect the teacher and kids to do?
brendancalling
I work full time as a teacher. We have drills on the regular. It’s a heinous way to live.
Kay
Just so you know what will replace the books on MLK and Ruby Bridges:
mrmoshpotato
@Kent:
And the point of gearing up to give a lecture is what?
leeleeFL
@Lapassionara: I hope they lose everything they have, AND go to jail as well. Fat chance, but it’s Christmas, and I want Santa to know what I want.
Since the law may not do it, perhaps a magic figment of our imagintion can.
mrmoshpotato
@zhena gogolia:
A whole lotta trash felt free to crawl out from the sewers because of Dump and let their racist flags fly.
I wouldn’t be so tough on yourself about it.
Old Man Shadow
But as we constantly step over the dead from COVID, gun violence, police violence, prison executions, and our super happy fun time missiles, we must never forget how very pro-life conservatives are.
mrmoshpotato
@Geminid:
C.H.U.D.
Causticity Acerbity
@Juju: i’m not disagreeing. The actions of the officer in that video have been one of the points of contention in every press briefing since it was revealed. Everything about the situation is an indictment of our society. I’ve attended many robotics competitions at that school. I’ve had friendly conversations with team managers from that school at Destination Imagination tournaments. My wife has friend’s who were tearfully reuniting with their children in the parking lot of Meijer after they escaped the school and my 12 year old nephew will be attending the funeral for Justin Shilling because their father’s are bowling buddies and he knew the kid. I apologize if it seemed I was criticizing the children. I just sought to share information which had not appeared to enter the national discussion of the events.
mrmoshpotato
@Kent: I see. Obviously I’m not a golfer.
West of the Rockies
@leeleeFL:
Well, they will lose their son to prison for (likely) at least 20 years. They will lose their standing in the community and probably income: I wouldn’t but a house from that vile woman. It’s at least a good start to their personal suffering.
mrmoshpotato
@brendancalling:
I was out of school before active shooter drills came into existence, but every time I hear about them, I can’t imagine what that must be like for students and teachers alike.
What a horrible way enough voters have chosen for us to live.
Kent
@mrmoshpotato: Search me. If I had to guess, the young officers probably do it because they think it turns on the girls who are supposed to be impressed with their displays of manhood. Of course most actual HS girls thing they are tools. And are more into things like BTS. So I doubt it works.,
I expect some of them also get woodies by dressing up in all their tactical gear. Gun fetishism is a real thing.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@West of the Rockies: You feel that way now. Wait until the tearful Go-Fund-Me and Fox interview where they explain that THEY are the REAL victims.
Ruckus
@JoyceH:
Wanna bet the school will not say one word about the “behavior” because that could possibly make them liable because they did not speak up soon enough, discipline the kid or kick him out?
BTW I’m not taking that bet either.
Betty Cracker
@Causticity Acerbity: Thanks for giving us a local’s view.
Ruckus
@mrmoshpotato:
To scare the kids?
And adults?
That some cops are as stupid as they look?
That the police think they are at war with every citizen?
Raoul Paste
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: More like this please
Just One More Canuck
“Apples, trees, etc.?”
More like “Turds, Assholes”
Roger Moore
@Kent:
It’s way off topic, but I think this is one of the deep problems with our society. Boys get their ideas of what attracts girls from other boys, which just winds up reinforcing all kinds of toxic masculinity. If they could just ask girls what they want, or at least listen to older men who have, you know, actually succeeded in forming successful relationships, they would save everyone from a lot of destructive behavior.
oatler
Ever seen that Kate Smith clip “Pickaninnies Heaven”? Wowsers. Youtube clip says it’s from her movie “Hello Everybody!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3tqZ3ohnjg
Mike in Pasadena
Republicans are quick to preach how those people should take responsibility. However when it comes to taking responsibility for safeguarding guns and ammo they own, no responsibilty. Think how many times you’ve read stories that say, “the gun went off.” By itself, I suppose. The Oxford HS shooter is quoted now as complaining that, “they’re demonizing me.” He turned himself into a demon. (If the shoe fits. . . .) Side issue: why is a school shooter being interviewed?
Ksmiami
@CaseyL: exactly- a decent government in a rich nation shouldn’t be this onerous and difficult…
The Pale Scot
@Lapassionara:
I don’t think Homeowners would cover that. The bill to fight the insurance co will dwarf their son’s legal bills.
So bridges, boxes, curtain rods, sparrows etc.
What will be interesting in a car crash sort of way is wether the gun nut propaganda organs start promoting the wife’s RE career. “buy a house from her, own the libs”
Juju
@Causticity Acerbity: I didn’t think you were criticizing the children, and I’m sorry you thought I upset. I was just explaining what typically goes on in a lockdown for those who don’t know, and why my guess was that it was the gunman at the door. I hadn’t read all the way down to the bottom. When I read your comment about the bro guy being a deputy, I was genuinely surprised to hear that, because a person who should know the lockdown procedure or a person with a lick of common sense wouldn’t do what that deputy did. Those students and teacher did exactly what they were supposed to do.
sab
@germy: Hope his Covid is long.
sab
@Roger Moore: Might cut down on the number of incels.
Mj_Oregon
I had Duck and Cover drills in my grade school classrooms in the 50s. As young as I was, I knew they were stupid and unlikely to protect me and my friends. Then in high school we had similar nuclear attack drills where we filled into the hallways and sat on the floor until the all clear. One of those was particularly horrifying as it occurred during the Cuban missile crises and we were all old enough to know what was happening. From those experiences, I have a small understanding of what today’s children are going through with the active shooter drills and then with a real active shooter. I can’t even begin to imagine what those kids are going through. Ever since Sandy Hook failed to make basic gun control legislation the number one priority in the nation, I knew we were lost. It’s hard to have hope for the future some days.
sab
@Mj_Oregon: Those bomb drills were scary when I was a kid in Florida in the sixties. Turned out to be quite useful when I was in the 1989 earthquake in California and hadn’t had earthquake drills.
It infuriates me that my grandchildren go through them. I just hope tney might find them to be useful later in life in entirely different circumstances.
NotMax
@sab
We had to huddle in the school basement for the Cold War nuclear drills.
Figured it was to save on burial costs later on.
J R in WV
@NotMax:
The last several guns I have bought, the last one at a hardware store, the background check took maybe a 5-8 minute phone call. It was an anonymous summer afternoon, not black friday with a large volume built in, but still.
None of my back ground checks have taken longer than 15 minutes or so, I’m not in any criminal record databases, and in gun shows where private individual sales take place, background checks are not required.
I have also been given guns by friends, which do not involve back ground checks either.
Geminid
@J R in WV: A friend’s son told me about waiting in line at Dick’s Sporting Goods one day. He wanted to buy ammunition for his shotgun. A guy ahead of him wanted to buy a handgun. After the woman at the counter scanned his ID, she said wait, let me go to the stock room, I may be able to get you a better deal. It took her a while, but in the meantime two cops showed up and hauled him away because he was a prohibited (and dumb) purchaser. A better deal indeed!
J R in WV
When the Cuban missile crisis happened, I was 12. I went down into the crawl space under our house and started digging. Our house was on the end of a high ridge, which meant the ground under the house was cap rock, especially hard stone that protected the ridge top from erosion.
I managed about a wheel-barrow excavated each evening after dinner, and was pissed because my dad wasn’t helping at all. The crisis ended with a small excavation, not nearly big enough for a family of four, and years later dad had a plumbing company bring in a compressor and jackhammer to enlarge the small excavation I started enough to install a new furnace and water heater. Still think I was right to start digging — it was terrifying to see the evening news covering the missiles down there in Cuba.
When I was in the US Navy during the Vietnam draft, I was stationed in Key West, which was militarized during the Cuban missile crisis, and was still militarized when I got there in 1970.
Bupalos
@West of the Rockies:
I’m sorry but fuck that. I’m not particularly in to punitive justice… In fact I’ve always thought of myself as particularly averse to it. but baby steps to make these leeches slightly less financially comfortable sounds absolutely wrong. Frankly right now I hope these parents are hounded day and night, made to live every waking second with the pain and misery their dumb gun fantasy and horrible moral example has brought forth for others. I hope they never have a moments that isn’t filled with dread and regret, up to… and if possible after… their own suicides.
Tehanu
Well, I hope they DON’T have good insurance. I hope they end up begging in the streets and eating out of dumpsters.
@Chris: Everything you said.
Only until the kid gets born.