So one of our BJ peeps wrote to me about this possible scam today:
I got an email from this organization: unitedemocrats.orgI was immediately suspicious because the lede was “Biden impeachment” and if there was any such move afoot I’m sure BJ jackals would have heard of it.I checked the website and it lists things it wants to accomplish but there is not a single name attached.
She thinks it’s a scam and quite possibly one devised by Republicans to suck money out of gullible Democrats.
I think there’s a good chance that she is right.
What do you guys think?
Please show your work so the rest of us will have some tips on how to better evaluate organizations.
Update: It’s probably obvious from the fundraising posts I put up, but I don’t recommend giving to PACs. I believe in supporting boots on the ground organizing groups, especially early money, and a combination of that and judicious donating to particular campaigns as we get closer to elections.
But the more we know about how to evaluate groups and information, the better off we are.
Plus, this gaudy email looks Republican to me!
Chief Oshkosh
It’s Baud. I know it is.
sdhays
The contribute link goes to ActBlue. Surely they do some vetting of the groups they provide contribution services for?
I certainly wouldn’t give them any money without more information, though.
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh:
No. My website undressdemocrats dot org.
UncleEbeneezer
It could mean: Dems need to win in 2022 to prevent Biden being impeached.
dmsilev
My general rule is don’t give money to PACs, with the possible exception of well-established groups that I’ve heard of (EMILY’s list, for instance). There are just so many of them, with little or no accountability, that trying to keep track of who is or isn’t legit is impractical.
KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager))
I assume that those in Congress calling for TFG to be Speaker intend to impeach Biden as soon as they take House majority (assuming they do). However I wouldn’t contribute to anything without knowing who was behind it.
Major Major Major Major
Most political organizations are a racket. These days even campaign donations don’t do too much because of crazy competition in ad markets because of lots of campaign donations. Sarah Gideon’s no-hope campaign had so much money that they priced campaigns that actually needed the media out of the ad market.
These guys—who are they? Doesn’t say. What do they do? Doesn’t say. Spend your money on a nice meal, it’ll be good for the service staff. They need it more than unspecified DC consultants.
A Good Woman
They are not far from the DNC HQ per this article.
The lack of transparency is concerning, that is for sure. Nothing on Open Secrets that seems to connect.
hells littlest angel
Their link to ActBlue sign in doesn’t actually work. Hmm.
I wouldn’t blame anyone for being dubious. It’s only a matter of time before the crooks wring all the right-wing hoopleheads dry.
sab
I don’t know how to link, but Open Secrets has a Unitedemocrats pac listed. I found it via Google. Don’t know if it the same one, since it is listed as based in Charlotte NC and the one above is based in DC supposedly.
Cmorenc
Safer move is to route donations via ActBlue, which we can be confident is legit, and refrain from donating to unfamiliar organizations that could be politically fraudulent.
Does anyone we know is solidly legit vouching for this other organization? That would be a key tell.
Adam L Silverman
They’re a hybrid PAC/super PAC. Here’s the link to their OpenSecrets profile:
https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/unitedemocrats-pac/C00740126/summary/2020
As far as impeaching Biden and Harris, Taylor Greene, Boebert, Cawthorne, and several other members of the House GOP caucus have either already submitted bills of impeachment, which will go nowhere until the GOP retakes the House majority or indicated they’ve prepared them and will submit them once the GOP does so.
If you do not think that Biden will be impeached repeatedly if the GOP retakes the House, you’re living in fantasy land. As far as the GOP is concerned, he has to be impeached at least 3 times in order so that Trump is no longer the most impeached president.
Now whether you should give these folks at United Democrats your money or not is something I cannot answer.
Brachiator
I didn’t see this PAC in the FEC site.
The address is not the same as the info Adam found.
There are other, clearly legitimate organizations around.
matt the somewhat reasonable
I see that another fly by nightish PAC called savedemocracypac has the same address:
499 South Capitol St SW, Suite 407
Washington, DC 20003
https://savedemocracypac.com/faq-items/
Cameron
Aren’t PACs supposed to be registered with the FEC? Maybe they can verify if this outfit is legit or not.
JDM
@matt the somewhat reasonable:
I plunked that address into DuckDuckGo and it coughed up Conservative Trust of America, with Michael Reagan as frontman.
A Good Woman
@Adam L Silverman:
Here’s the FEC form, they moved into this address this year.
They are associated with Stop Senate Republicans. This is their About Page
Previous occupant was Drain the Swamp Ohio.
CaseyL
I’m very leery of nearly all PACs, because political fundraising is a ripe growth medium for scams. Anyone can slap a nice-sounding name on their scam – “Liberty” this and “Patriot” that for the RW, “Justice” this or “Peace” that for the Left.
Stick with ActBlue – and use an actual ActBlue link, not a website purporting to work with ActBlue, but whose link doesn’t work. (You should also be able to find them on the ActBlue site – though it’s also probably only a matter of time before someone sets up a fake “Act Blue” website, and links to it.)
Bill Arnold
This ratio does not make me comfortable:
https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/unitedemocrats-pac/C00740126/summary/2020
Steeplejack (phone)
@A Good Woman:
There is nothing about “United Democrats” at that link. Or did I miss something?
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Will go nowhere unless the GOP takes Congress, not until. Let’s NOT present things as inevitable until they are.
Major Major Major Major
@Bill Arnold: it’s a racket, like most PACs
Fair Economist
@dmsilev: Same here. I only give to official Democratic organizations or ones that I know well. And I only donate by mail or by looking up an org on ActBlue – it’s so trivial to spoof an email or a call and have money sent to Russian hackers.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: Did you mean “let’s NOT”?
WaterGirl
@Fair Economist: To be clear, I am in no way suggesting that anyone should give to this group, even if they turn out to be legitimate.
Ken
Oh, you know. Breakage, title fees, demurrage, shipping and handling, overweight luggage charges…. It all adds up.
WaterGirl
Also, doesn’t this – from the email message – just scream Republican?
Tim C.
@Adam L Silverman: Yes. Opensecrets is your friend on all these things!
sab
@A Good Woman: Same treasurer as the charlotte nc outfit. Drain the Swamp was draining the wrong swamp. The address may be innocent, ie just a landlord renting to anyone. We have a big local property management company whose owners are very active in local Republican politics but they also rent to all the Democratic campaigns every two years.
prostratedragon
@WaterGirl: Just what I was thinking about the email described by your correspondent. Does NOT sound like Democratic outreach.
Low Key Swagger
I wouldn’t send a penny to any organization, vetted or not, that sends out emails like that.
Another Scott
A whois lookup at ICANN isn’t terribly informative, but might say something.
Those last 2 lines might mean something about Ontario, Canada, but it might mean something else. (Democrats.org’s corresponding fields are “DE” and “US”).
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Bill Arnold
@WaterGirl:
Well, yeah, but DonaldJTrump fundraising people are still the masters:
Major Major Major Major
@prostratedragon: Republican and Democratic fundraising pitches are converging to the same level of scaminess, alas.
@Another Scott: looks to me like they’re using a privacy-maintaining registrar (generally smart) which happens to be Canadian.
germy
krocnyc
Here’s UNITEDDemocrats PAC’s Open Secrets page. The link should take you to the Expenditures tab. A quick glance suggests that a decent chunk of the money raised ends up in the hands of consultants and other PACs—which is not surprising given that there’s nothing on their website that suggests they’re doing any kind of real work to build “a national movement to elect Democrats to all levels of office.”
Their plan? “Identify and recruit high-quality and diverse candidates up and down the ballot and provide direct resources to endorsed candidates who will fight for [insert standard Democratic campaign slogan here].” But there’s no information on how they will execute their plan or the strategic / tactical thinking behind it. There are plenty of organizations who are doing that work, many with an actual track record of getting high-quality and diverse candidates recruited and in office. Organizations like Sister District have well developed strategies and programs to implement them that they lay out in detail on their websites.
Send your money elsewhere—to Four Directions, for example.
Baud
@germy:
They found me out!
sab
@Tim C.: Looking at the Open Secrets info combined with the FEC info, they seem to be legitimately a Democratic outfit. That doesn’t say anything about whether they are at all effective.
Cameron
@Bill Arnold: Shouldn’t that be whine glasses?
Spanky
Whether the org is legit or not is somewhat beside the point if someone is phishing with a legit org’s name. The bad ActBlue link sounds mighty phishy.
mrmoshpotato
This is fishy in an assaulted-with-alewives kind of way.
Bill Arnold
Here’s text from another donaldjtrump.com grifting fundraising email. (The buttons are trackers to identify live-and-backed-by-a-gullible-person email addresses.)
Somebody needs to remind Mr. D.J. Trump that he attempted to assassinate J. Biden during the first Biden/Trump “debate”, using virus-laden plumes shouted directly at Biden at close distance.
(And yeah, I’m fairly sure Trump was deliberately not tested between the time he scored a lucky negative test (rapid test?) after testing positive, and the debate days later. (Amateur at this, he is.) )
sab
@Spanky: ActBlue link seemed okay to me, but I din’t actually push the donate button.
germy
Starfish
@JDM: That building is a 7-8 story office building. One of the tenants is a dentist. Clearly, this building is full of nefarious dentists.
mrmoshpotato
On the NFTs-are-bullshit front:
Mary G
I get solicitations from groups like these at least fortnightly. I unsubscribe. Get back to me when you have a recond of achievements to list.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
as long as we’re discussing clickbait, does anyone know why Nancy Reagan’s legendary Hollywood reputation is being winkingly alluded to on the twitter today?
mrmoshpotato
@Bill Arnold:
I am tremendous bigly at ratings!
This Soviet shitpile mobster conmanbaby dipshit…
germy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Ben Shapiro’s sister has a twitter account. She uploaded two photos: Madonna at the age of 63, and Nancy Reagan at the age of 64. Shapiro’s point was that Nancy was a wonderful lady and Madonna is a slut.
And then people started quoting Nancy’s Hollywood reputation in the replies. One of her biographies revealed she was skilled at a certain sexual act.
WaterGirl
@Bill Arnold: How many idiots feel special because they receive that offer? Surely a lot of them, right?
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major:
Not the ones I receive.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy: that’s a great gif whatever the context!
Imagine still thinking about Madonna, or Nancy Reagan for that matter, in 2021
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Don’t follow Twitter, but maybe something to do with this?
It’s a comparison of Nancy Reagan and Madonna at approximately the same age, with the implication that it’s better to be Nancy Reagan.
prostratedragon
@mrmoshpotato: Oh, you’re showing your age.
germy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
It was a basic “We’re better than you” message from a conservative woman.
Of course, people replied with screen shots of the Nancy Reagan biography, the sections about oral sex skills.
Mary G
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: She had a reputation as an enthusiastic partner on the casting couch in her starlet days. Who cares? Are Democrats bringing it up to harm Republicans? Total waste of time. Republicans doing it to claim Democrats are vicious thugs trying to malign the image of St. Nancy? Who cares ?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: I mean, do right wingers really want to start the internet on posting pictures of Republican First Courtesans?
germy
I don’t think it would have come up if not for Ms. Shapiro’s slut-shaming of the 63 year old Madonna.
mrmoshpotato
Burn the vaccine out. Guaranteed!
sab
@WaterGirl: WaterGirl: Thanks for this thread. I think we have learned a lot about vetting a solicitation.
Damned_at_Random
@Mary G: Right you are. I contribute through Emily’s List for precisely that reason. The testiment to their effectiveness is the anger they generate on the Right
Uncle Cosmo
@WaterGirl:
Actually, no. What it screams is a bunch of professional scammers who couldn’t give a frying flock** about politics except as a method to relieve the rubes of their money. They are past masters at all the techniques (the verbiage, the phrasing, the visuals) for rousing blinding indignation and anger in partisans of whichever side of the aisle they’re working and persuading them to part with their hard-won cash…and if any of it ends up anywhere near somewhere it might aid the intended cause, it would be sheer coincidence.
C’mon, folks, you’ve seen these over-the-top appeals for money before from groups supposedly on our side, everyone from the DNC on down. Somehow those bastards have convinced organizations on both sides of the aisle that heated rhetoric and SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS is the quickest, easiest and most productive way to raise a lot of cash – even after they take their obscene cut. Which is all they care about.
As Lenny Bruce once put it, Unscrew ’em.
** As Chicken-Man Frank Perdue might’ve put it
PsiFighter37
@Adam L Silverman: I think that Biden being repeatedly impeached for the dumbest of offenses would look really, really bad for the GOP. They took it on the chin in 1998 when people got fed up with their impeaching of Clinton over a blowjob. Imagine if they impeach Biden for…what, exactly? The money people and the GOP-curious suburban moms will vote against them in huge numbers in a heartbeat in 2024. Hopefully there are enough guardrails left in place so a 1/6-style event or state legislators do not fuck around with the process then. But who knows.
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: So, I have a fairly simple solution to these things. Ignore them. Use them as a reminder that you should give some money, then go seek out the legitimate source that you trust and give to them.
What will this organization do that say ActBlue won’t? Nothing. So don’t give to them. Even if they are legit, they have no obligation to exist or for us to support them. There are plenty of organizations that we know and trust and give to them instead.
Simply put, if they come to me, I ignore them. If I feel compelled to give something, I step back, ask myself who I want to help and then seek out an organization that will support that group. Maybe its the same organization, maybe its a different one. But *I* find them. *I* initiate it. And I do it on *my* timeframe, because it gives me time to research them.
This holds for *everything*. Financial stuff, political stuff, environmental stuff, etc. You lose a bit of that immediate gratification, but I’ve never regretted money I’ve given, invested, services I’ve signed up for, etc. this way.
Another Scott
@germy: Ah, I thought it was related to this picture that showed up downstairs last night.
I only see one person there – the one on the right – who seems (to me) to be comfortable in their skin on that occasion. It’s kinda sad.
Cheers,
Scott.
A Good Woman
@Steeplejack (phone): their building address was what I was referring to. Sorry I wasn’t more clear at the time.
Geminid
@Spanky: I could track the woman listed as treasurer of UniteDemocrats to a North Carolina outfit called Blue Wave Partners. Their website listed personnel, and just about every other principal was described as “Partner, Fundraising.” Others were listed as “Partner, Compliance.” It sounded like a lot of overhead to me.
Their pitch also puts me off. It seems too sensational, like they’re going after the credulous.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: yes, I did.
Bill Arnold
If you hover over one of the links in one of these emotionally-manipulative grifting mails and the link is mostly just a long apparently-random alphanumeric string, why yes, it is a random alphanumeric string, for you. If you click, their automation now knows that somebody or something reading the email at your email address clicked on the link. Mostly somebody, though I’m sure there are a many honeypot email addresses/configs that click on all inks.
JDM
@Starfish: Are they in Suite 407 (which is the address I put into the search engine that led me to Michael Reagan’s outfit)?
germy
Very true.
SiubhanDuinne
@Another Scott:
Young Tom Cruise could easily pass as a GOP Congresscritter. Or a Trump offspring or offspring-in-law.
Spanky
@Another Scott: I want to know whose hand is in Cher’s pocketses.
sab
@Geminid: They seem to be a legitimate Democratic political consulting group that does fundraising and compliance.
I personally would not contribute to such an outfit because I think my meager contribution budget is better spent elsewhere. But I think we have figured out that they are not a scam or Republican.
SpaceUnit
The fact that they would call themselves united democrats suggests that they are unfamiliar with actual Democrats.
Uncle Cosmo
@Starfish: Ambrose Bierce famously defined dentist as
Mutatis mutandis – e.g., change metal to overheated rhetoric and mouth to inbox or Twitter stream, inter alia – and these grifters are a perfect fit for dentists’ neighbors.
(Dang, I even got to toss in two of my favorite obscure Latin phrases along with one nonobscure Latin abbreviation! Morituri te salmonella, peeps, and can I have my J.D. now? :^D)
Geminid
@sab: Yes, this outfit seems to part of a cluster of Democratic groups with different functions. I think they should be more specific about what they actually do, though. That would not be too hard.
WaterGirl
@Uncle Cosmo: Those types of messages certainly don’t work on me, and if I get a SCREAMING request for money, I immediately unsubscribe and reference their hysterical messaging as the reason.
That may be one reason why I seldom receive those types of message.
Uncle Cosmo
Fundamental law of the multiverse: Anyone listed as overhead spends most of their time underfoot.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: I just added NOT.
VOR
A couple years ago there was a State Senate race in my area. I got a lot of flyers either attacking the Democratic candidate or promoting Republican issues. Things like “Jane Doe wants to take all your money and give it to the Communists!”, followed by “Jane Doe is coming to eat your babies!”, then “Vote for the candidate who doesn’t want to triple your taxes!”. Calm, thoughtful stuff.
These flyers were from different groups so at first glance seemed unrelated. But doing a little research revealed all those groups shared the same mailing address. And even some of the supposedly 3rd party issue flyers, like one from the Auto Dealer’s Association, came from the same address.
Meanwhile the Republican candidate was bragging about how he never accepted PAC money. No need, when the PACs are doing all this supportive direct mail attack advertising, theoretically independently. Thank goodness he lost.
VOR
Supposedly the Nigerian email scammers have learned to make their claims wilder and more unbelievable because it weeds out anyone who isn’t gullible. They get a better success to response ratio and don’t waste their time with people who are skeptical.
sab
@Geminid: Agreed.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: Danke.
Another Scott
@VOR: I’m old enough to remember that PACs were touted as being good for small-d democracy because it would let common interest groups (unions, advocacy groups) pool their money, reduce overhead, and have a louder voice with their representatives. Disclosure and limits would make sure that no hanky-panky was going on.
Funny how it didn’t quite work out that way, huh??
As long as the GQP is weaponizing every aspect of politics, we cannot disarm. Our candidates should not forego PAC money, but they should be selective about the money they accept and be transparent about it.
Cheers,
Scott.
Mike in NC
I read the WaPo article about the PowerPoint stuff that Mark Meadows turned over to the January 6 committee. There had better be a fresh batch of subpoenas coming out next week. Get this retired colonel in Texas to name all of the Republicans he met with at the White House.
Another Scott
A good thread:
(via CT_Bergstrom)
Cheers,
Scott.
dnfree
I think this is a scam. I think it goes along with the (now two) organizations that call me Adriano in their emails. One is United Rural Democrats and the other is something like Democracy for Puerto Rico. I find no evidence supporting the existence of either but they want donations. I did not click on the links to see if the donations go through ActBlue but I hope not.
it is a concern. We need money going where it will do some good.
karensky
Sure looks like a Republican greed bot!
Another Scott
@Mike in NC: I haven’t read the WaPo story, but nycsouthpaw and emptywheel are urging people to slow down and not jump to conclusions.
“Oh, that’s PowerPoint? It was just something going around. I had nothing to do with it. The rest of the stuff you’re trying to pin on me and TFG is garbage too.” – Meadows, probably.
Twitter Hot-Takes are going to kill us all – haven’t we learned that yet??
Cheers,
Scott.
moops
well, the address is the next suite over from this one
AMERIPAC: The Fund For A Greater America, 499 South Capitol Street, SW, Suite 406, chairman is Steny H. Hoyer.
There are a LOT of PACs that run out of 499 South Capitol Street.
Geminid
@karensky: Some on the Democratic side of the political-industrial complex are greedy too. There is a lot of careerism, and outright profiteering. I’ve always wondered about the “customary” 15% cut companies get for placement of advertising. I believe Mark Penn made a lot of money off Hilary Clinton’s 2008 campaign that way. And in 2016, the Sanders campaign used a little known pop up, Old Towne Associates, to place their ads. The address was a Virginia residence, and at least one of the partners was a friend of Mrs. Sanders. They had worked together on a similar project back when Mr. Sanders was a Congressman. This seems to have been an accepted practice, but when I consider that TV and radio stations have plenty of salespeople whose job it it is to drum up and place advertising, letting a favored third party rake 15% off the top seems corrupt even if it’s not illegal.
WaterGirl
@Mike in NC:
???
SiubhanDuinne
@moops:
A lot of shared staff, too, would be my guess.
Kent
Young Tom Cruise of the “Cocktail” vintage would be the perfect GOP Congress critter.
Bonnie
This is off-topic. I apologize; but Navy just beat Army today, My older brother was a Navy man and died this year in May. I told my sister, I am rooting for Navy to win it for my brother. He was a GREAT BROTHER! Yay!
WaterGirl
@Bonnie: I’m very sorry you lost your brother. Heartbreaking.
I remember after my Dad died – he always loved the spring tulips and I felt like I had to get out there and enjoy them for him, so maybe I understand a tiny bit of your rooting for your brother’s team since he wasn’t here to do it.
Middlelee
Wow! Nice to have several ways to search these organizations. I only give directly to candidates or to BJ campaigns such as Four Directions. However, I like to have some idea about organizations that show up in my political email inbox because it’s impossible to know when random information might come in handy.
I have such respect and admiration for Balloon Juice and its hive mind.
Bonnie
@WaterGirl: Thank you, Water Girl. My brother looked great in his uniform bell bottoms and all. He was a great football fan and taught me every thing I know about football. He passed his books on to me. If a movie was on TV, he would tell us to watch it if he had seen it. I will miss him so much.
Procopius
@Bill Arnold: The proper reply to this is, “Hey, give us just a little tease. Show us some of this “evidence” you say you have. Why have none of the people supposedly representing you done this? Rudy Giuliani hasn’t. The Mypillow Guy hasn’t. Sidney Powell hasn’t. Lin Wood hasn’t. You aren’t barred from presenting it to a court if you also reveal it, or even some of it, to the public. It would be a good idea if you also tell us who told you about all the massive fraud. Have a nice day.”
Chris Sherbak
They don’t seem very good at hiding: the address on the website “499 South Capitol St SW, Suite 407 Washington, DC 20003 ” is listed on Google as https://www.capitolhillcg.com/contact/ Capital Hill Consulting. Which all seems very bland and bi-partisan, but this guy’s blurb (CEO/Partner) really turns me off: https://www.capitolhillcg.com/team/brian-sutter/ He worked on some Post ACA legislation that doesn’t sound like he was making it better. His Open Secrets donating profile seems pretty small but definitely R: https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/lobbyists/contributions?cycle=2018&id=Y0000050767L So … maybe mostly ok? I guess?
But likely more skimming-scamming…