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You are here: Home / Guest Posts / Medium Cool with BGinCHI – New Westerns

Medium Cool with BGinCHI – New Westerns

by WaterGirl|  December 12, 20217:00 pm| 204 Comments

This post is in: Guest Posts, Medium Cool, Movies, Culture as a Hedge Against This Soul-Sucking Political Miasma We're Living In

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In case you’re new to Medium Cool, BGinCHI is here once a week to offer a thread on culture, mainly film & books, with some TV thrown in.  We’re here at 7 pm on Sunday nights.

Medium Cool with BGinCHI – New Westerns
Image is from the Vanity Fair article about The Power of the Dog

In the last week I’ve seen two new Westerns that have given me a lot to think about. In this week’s Medium Cool, let’s talk about The Western, updated.

Both “Old Henry” (2021, dir. Potsy Ponciroli) and “The Power of the Dog” (2021, dir. Jane Campion) are set in the 20th century (1906 and 1925, respectively). Both feature older men struggling with the past, as well as young men who struggle with the future. Both films are consciously placed in this transitional time period, with one way of life giving way to another.

What other Westerns do this? How is the genre a fertile form for exploring historical change? There’s a lot of room here to talk about films/books/TV series that aren’t, strictly speaking, Westerns, but make use of similar forms and ways of storytelling.

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Reader Interactions

204Comments

  1. 1.

    WaterGirl

    December 12, 2021 at 7:05 pm

    Someone just mentioned (and recommended) the Power of the Dog in the previous thread.

  2. 2.

    Yutsano

    December 12, 2021 at 7:06 pm

    I have to mention the obvious Firefly/Serenity as space Westerns. Otherwise I wasn’t aware the Western genre was returning to cinema. My lack of understanding of where the culture is I guess.

  3. 3.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 7:08 pm

    I’d also be interested in any Westerns anyone can think of that are set in the 20th century.

    There’s The Shootist (1901), and the framing sections of Little Big Man. The end of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? It starts in 1899, but not sure what year it ends….

  4. 4.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 7:09 pm

    @Yutsano: Firefly getting a re-boot, yes? By Disney?

    The original show was good and it’s hard to believe it didn’t run 10 seasons. Mandalorian is kind of picking up where it left off….

  5. 5.

    Yutsano

    December 12, 2021 at 7:13 pm

    @BGinCHI: Dammit! I knew I was forgetting something! As soon as I got caught up on The Expanse next was Mandalorian. Annnd I got sucked down a Star Trek rabbit hole. I’ll start making up for that later tonight.

  6. 6.

    billcinsd

    December 12, 2021 at 7:13 pm

    @BGinCHI: The original show was a little too Neo-Confederate for my taste. Well, that is more my generic critique of many Westerns but ymmv

  7. 7.

    Grumpy Old Railroader

    December 12, 2021 at 7:14 pm

    @BGinCHI:  I’d also be interested in any Westerns anyone can think of that are set in the 20th century.

    “A River Runs Through It”. 1992 directed by Robert Redford

  8. 8.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 12, 2021 at 7:16 pm

    @BGinCHI: No Country for Old Men and Hell or High Water are both 20th century westerns.

    ETA: NCfOM occurs in the 1980s iirc. HoHW a little later.

  9. 9.

    NotMax

    December 12, 2021 at 7:21 pm

    A few Westerns which nominally or obliquely fit the parameters.

    Film:
    Cimarron
    Destry Rides Again
    Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
    A Big Hand for the Little Lady
    The Naked Spur
    7 Men From Now
    The Grey Fox
    Comes A Horseman
    Chato’s Land
    The Tall T
    Buck and the Preacher
    Will Penny
    .

    TV (Australian):
    Wild Boys
    .

  10. 10.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 7:22 pm

    @billcinsd: Hmm. I haven’t seen it since it’s original run, and I had not remembered that.

  11. 11.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 12, 2021 at 7:24 pm

    I’ve never seen it but isn’t Brokeback Mountain a 20th century western?

  12. 12.

    debbie

    December 12, 2021 at 7:25 pm

    I really, really liked News of the World. I don’t know how many Westerns I’ve seen, but the absolute blackness of the nights and the many lurking dangers made me pretty anxious for the first time.

  13. 13.

    debbie

    December 12, 2021 at 7:25 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Yes.

  14. 14.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 7:26 pm

    @Grumpy Old Railroader:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I should have been more specific. I mean Westerns set in the early 20th C. that are explicitly about the changes overtaking a previous way of life (advent of the auto, plowing with a tractor, etc.).

    But yeah, I also love the neo-Westerns you name. Great films all.

  15. 15.

    Yutsano

    December 12, 2021 at 7:26 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: It’s set in the 1960s so yes. I was warned that movie was going to make me a blubbery mess. I was actually fine…until the last line. That movie was so ripped off for Best Picture.

  16. 16.

    Dan B

    December 12, 2021 at 7:30 pm

    @Yutsano: I had the same reaction.  And what won Best Picture?  Time to google.

  17. 17.

    NotMax

    December 12, 2021 at 7:31 pm

    @BGinCHI

    Everyone I knew at the time went absolutely ga-ga over it. I thought it was just okay. Watchable enough but wildly inconsistent and trite (figured out the ‘secret’ of the Reavers very early on), with plot holes a blind novice could pilot a star destroyer through.

  18. 18.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    December 12, 2021 at 7:31 pm

    @Yutsano: I see Disney is planning to reboot Firefly.

  19. 19.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    December 12, 2021 at 7:31 pm

    double post

  20. 20.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    December 12, 2021 at 7:31 pm

    @Yutsano: I see Disney is planning to reboot Firefly.

  21. 21.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 7:33 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: ​
      I’d call it a “neo-Western,” but yeah.

  22. 22.

    TiredOfItAll

    December 12, 2021 at 7:36 pm

    What is a Western, anyway? Do there have to be cowboys? Or guns? This year I read a trilogy of novels by Kent Haruf, “Plainsong,” “Eventide,” and “Benediction.” All set in the late 20th century in and around the fictional town of Holt, in eastern Colorado. The first one centers on two old bachelor brothers, the McPherons, cattle farmers who take in a young girl in trouble. The novels are lovely and lyrical, and sad, like much of life these days. Well, the sad part anyway. And, yet, I found them to be a safe place to hide out for awhile during this blasted plague.

  23. 23.

    Ksmiami

    December 12, 2021 at 7:36 pm

    @BGinCHI: all of Taylor Sheridan’s films.. especially Wind River.

  24. 24.

    frosty

    December 12, 2021 at 7:38 pm

    20th Century? Lonely Are The Brave with Kirk Douglas

  25. 25.

    Dan B

    December 12, 2021 at 7:38 pm

    @Dan B: ‘Crash’ won Best Picture over Brokeback Mountain.  There was a great deal of criticism about how Brokeback was only nominated for writing.

  26. 26.

    leeM

    December 12, 2021 at 7:40 pm

    The Wild Bunch came to mind immediately.

     

    1. Set in 1913. It covers some of the territory you’re asking about.
  27. 27.

    eddie blake

    December 12, 2021 at 7:43 pm

    i mean, it takes place during the 1880’s, but eastwood’s the unforgiven is all about people struggling with the passage of time, changing roles, modernization, maturity, self-knowledge, and i think, the acceptance of obsolescence.

  28. 28.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 12, 2021 at 7:43 pm

    @BGinCHI: the early 20th C. that are explicitly about the changes overtaking a previous way of life

    Well, other than not fitting your early 20th century timeline, both NCfOM (the drug wars and the struggles wrought by them) and HoHW (banks and the fiscal powers they had accrued) dealt with “changes overtaking a previous way of life”.

    I think that conflict lies at the center of most westerns.

    One that has been in my mind of late is Hombre. A great Paul Newman western* that occurs in the 1880s/1890s but deals with those exact issues.

    * original novel written by Elmore Leonard, who wrote a number of exceptional westerns, quite a few of which ended up on the silver screen.

  29. 29.

    Larch

    December 12, 2021 at 7:43 pm

    20th century Western: Longmire TV rather than movie, but does explore the past/future collision in a number of ways

    A lot of “space opera” science fiction is either Westerns or war movies in space, often both. I used to think the Earth 2 TV show would have gotten better ratings if it has been marketed as Wagon Train In the stars — at least until its progressively more bizarre final season.

  30. 30.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 7:44 pm

    Lonely Are the Brave

    Jeremiah Johnson

    It really helps to get the Blu Ray of Jeremiah and listen to the commentary by Redford, Pollock and Milius. Also, the theme song is sung by Tim McIntire   

    who played Alan Freed in American Hot Wax,

  31. 31.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 12, 2021 at 7:45 pm

    @frosty: Oh yeah.

  32. 32.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 7:45 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: You ever been hungry lady. . .

  33. 33.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 7:45 pm

    @TiredOfItAll: That’s a good question. The genre definition of a Western includes just what you’d think from John Ford/John Wayne, etc.

    But I’m also interested in “frontier” narratives, which is a big part of any Western: liminal spaces, lack of law/justice, and so on. Willa Cather’s books even have this quality, as people are out on the western edge of the country (white people country).

  34. 34.

    Heidi Mom

    December 12, 2021 at 7:48 pm

    @Dan B: I just checked Wikipedia–it won Best Director, Best Adapted Screenplay, and Best Score.  Which does not mean that it shouldn’t have won Best Picture as well.

  35. 35.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 12, 2021 at 7:48 pm

    @raven: It has been so long since I’ve seen that movie and yet there are several scenes burned into my brain.

  36. 36.

    phein62

    December 12, 2021 at 7:50 pm

    @NotMax:   Will Penny is a very good movie, and also a reminder that Charlton Heston had some acting chops when it suited him.   He was also good in another Western with transitional overtones — the replacement of land barons with corporate actors — , The Big Country, for which Burl Ives won Best Supporting Actor.

    Westerns are by their nature paeans to a liminal state, the frontier period, with one wave of change crashing into another.

  37. 37.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 7:50 pm

    Heartland with Rip Torn and Conchata Ferrell is really good as is Tom Horn, Steve McQueen’s second to last film.

  38. 38.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 7:51 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: How ya gonna get back down that hill. . .

  39. 39.

    NotMax

    December 12, 2021 at 7:52 pm

    @BGinCHI

    I’m also interested in “frontier” narratives

    While it may not meet the strictures of a Western, will mention the book The Fatal Shore.

  40. 40.

    Mike in NC

    December 12, 2021 at 7:53 pm

    We liked “The Son” starring Pierce Brosnan, set in Texas around 1916. Ran two seasons.

  41. 41.

    Heidi Mom

    December 12, 2021 at 7:53 pm

    Early in Seabiscuit there are scenes in which the old cowboy who becomes the horse’s trainer watches as the prairie disappears and he searches for a way to adapt.

  42. 42.

    Dan B

    December 12, 2021 at 7:55 pm

    @BGinCHI: Speaking of John Wayne a native stuntman nicknamed Yakima Cannutt was the inspiration for John Wayne’s ‘cowboy’ act.  So the native culture of Eastern Washington got transferred to the Western stereotypical brand of slow talking machismo.  Yakima, who was from the Palouse, not Yakima, also developed many stunts add special, non-CGI, effects.  So movie culture was changing as Westerns were being made.

  43. 43.

    artem1s

    December 12, 2021 at 7:55 pm

    @Larch:

    Roddenberry pitched Star Trek exactly that way to Paramount.

  44. 44.

    JPL

    December 12, 2021 at 7:55 pm

    The Power of the Dog does give one a lot to think about, but I found it lacking.  Phil is a damaged, sadistic character and the movie only hints at why.   I just think there is more to the story.

    btw Team Peter

  45. 45.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 7:56 pm

    I hate to pimp Eastwood but, along with The Unforgiven (the original is really good too with it’s examination of race), but Coogan’s Bluff is pretty wild. He’s a modern day sheriff who goes to the Big Apple chasing a murdered. His encounters in the big city are hilarious!

  46. 46.

    UncleEbeneezer

    December 12, 2021 at 7:58 pm

    @WaterGirl: That was me.  Great flick.  Stunning scenery.  Incredible performances by all the actors.  I even liked Cumberbatch for once (well, actually disliked, because he is the villain but played it well.)

  47. 47.

    NotMax

    December 12, 2021 at 8:00 pm

    @artem1s

    Actually, to Desilu (and also to NBC).

    Yes, if it weren’t for Lucy we’d never have had Star Trek.

    ;)

  48. 48.

    sab

    December 12, 2021 at 8:00 pm

    @BGinCHI: Jeez. Ask my spouse. HE will not be on line on time, but he is guaranteed to second guess you. Welcome to my world.

  49. 49.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 12, 2021 at 8:02 pm

    @raven: Richard Boone, who did it so well in so many movies, was absolutely terrifying to 10 yr old me.

  50. 50.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 8:04 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: The scene waiting for the stagecoach  is something else.

  51. 51.

    Craig

    December 12, 2021 at 8:04 pm

    Just dropped in to say Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid is the best.

  52. 52.

    NotMax

    December 12, 2021 at 8:06 pm

    @BGinCHI

    The Misfits.

  53. 53.

    Hungry Joe

    December 12, 2021 at 8:07 pm

    @raven: One of my favorite movie lines EVER. And Richard Boone’s reaction is perfect.

  54. 54.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 8:08 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: And Frank Silvera!

     

    He was a highly successful black actor/director in the 1950s and 1960s who – because of his light-skinned appearance – transcended race and ethnicity in his performances. In motion pictures, Frank Silvera was cast as black, Latino, Polynesian and “white”/racially indeterminate (due to black + white film stock’s lack of discernment when rendering light-skinned African-Americans).

  55. 55.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 12, 2021 at 8:09 pm

    @raven: Eastwood is capable of making good movies. Sometimes he even succeeds.

    @BGinCHI: I mean Westerns set in the early 20th C. that are explicitly about the changes overtaking a previous way of life

    I think There Will be Blood fits the bill.

  56. 56.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    December 12, 2021 at 8:10 pm

    Deadwood was pretty good. The erasure of Native Americans and the US’ brutal policy of total unmitigated terrorism against them is a big problem with most Westerns, past and present.

  57. 57.

    UncleEbeneezer

    December 12, 2021 at 8:10 pm

    Godless.  One of the most amazing Westerns I’ve ever seen because while it revolves around the story of conflict between two men, Roy Good (a gunslinger played by Jack O’Connell) and his father figure, Frank Griffin (Jeff Bridges) being sought by Sherriff who is losing his vision (Bill McNue) the landscape is one where the women are strong, independent and don’t take shit from he men.  Michelle Dockery and Merritt Weaver play some of the most bad-ass women characters you will ever see.  I can see it as a story about aging, familial conflict and everyone trying to figure out a world where women are being empowered.  The great thing about it, like Queen’s Gambit, is that for the most part, the main male characters are pretty much fine with powerful women.  It’s probably my favorite Western after Deadwood, but for very different reasons.

  58. 58.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 8:10 pm

    @Hungry Joe:

    This exchange was pretty good too!

     

    • Audra Favor : I can’t imagine eating a dog and not thinking anything of it.

      John Russell : You even been hungry, lady? Not just ready for supper. Hungry enough so that your belly swells?

      Audra Favor : I wouldn’t care how hungry I got. I know I wouldn’t eat one of those camp dogs.

      John Russell : You’d eat it. You’d fight for the bones, too.

      Audra Favor : Have you ever eaten a dog, Mr. Russell?

      John Russell : Eaten one and lived like one.

      Audra Favor : Dear me.

  59. 59.

    Kent

    December 12, 2021 at 8:11 pm

    “Legends of the Fall” is set about the same time in the early 20th century before and after WW1.  I’m not sure if it qualifies as a traditional Western.

  60. 60.

    NotMax

    December 12, 2021 at 8:13 pm

    One more film inadvertently omitted from the list above: Sergeant Rutledge.

  61. 61.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 8:13 pm

    Meek’s Cutoff is worthy.

    They filmed it in 4:3 to give the perspective of the women who have to wear those bonnets.

  62. 62.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 8:15 pm

    And don’t forget “The Ballad of Buster Scruggs”. The Lady Got Rattled with Zoe Kazan is worth the price of admission.

  63. 63.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 12, 2021 at 8:15 pm

    @raven: The aura of impending doom? Evil? Sociopath? Yep, that scene encapsulates what I was talking about with RB.

  64. 64.

    NotMax

    December 12, 2021 at 8:16 pm

    @raven

    I found it a noble, good faith effort but ultimately as barren as the landscape.

  65. 65.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 12, 2021 at 8:17 pm

    There is a genre of Hindi movies inspired by westerns with an outlaw hero/s. Not exactly new but the 1975 movie Sholay (Embers) is a classic of this genre. It is an ensemble movie and rip roaring yarn. It was a career defining movie for the writers Salim-Javed and its director Ramesh Sippy. The who’s who of Hindi film industry of the 70s is in this movie. It ran for over 5 years in the theaters.

    A retired police officer hires two small time goons to get even with his nemesis, the fearsome Gabbar Singh,

  66. 66.

    Craig

    December 12, 2021 at 8:18 pm

    Slightly OT, but the eternal question. Rio Bravo, or El Dorado? I tend to go with Rio Bravo cause Ricky Nelson is damn perfect as slick gunfighter Colorado.

  67. 67.

    Craig

    December 12, 2021 at 8:19 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: that’s a good one.

  68. 68.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 8:20 pm

    @NotMax: There are moments – when heavy footsteps and wagon sighs fill the endless, empty space of the Oregon outback – where Meek’s Cutoff exudes an existential aroma. This is a film that broods lengthily over the insubstantiality of mortality and faith. Like the last specks of gold dust along this lonesome trail, however, these moments are a false promise that something illuminating lies just beyond the next vale.

  69. 69.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio

    December 12, 2021 at 8:20 pm

    If made-for-TV movies count, Sam Elliott did a movie about Bill Tilghman, a famous lawman moving into old age, set in Prohibition-and-oil-boom Oklahoma, called You Know My Name that’s worth at least one viewing because hey—Sam Elliott.

  70. 70.

    James E Powell

    December 12, 2021 at 8:22 pm

    @Dan B:

    Crash is very widely regarded as one of the worst Best Pictures winners of all time. It was and remains an Academy Embarrassment.

  71. 71.

    prostratedragon

    December 12, 2021 at 8:25 pm

    @NotMax:  Very good one. I haven’t thought much about Westerns lately, but last time I did I was noticing that the bulk of them were made in the 30s through 50s, just when it was becoming clear that much about that way of life was evanescent. To me they’ve always been about nostalgia and lamenting changing times and, considering who many of the Western settlers were, about refugees from the Lost Cause. Not that I don’t often enjoy them.

  72. 72.

    James E Powell

    December 12, 2021 at 8:26 pm

    Westerns set in the 20th Century

    Lone Star

    The Hi-Lo Country

    The Wild Bunch

    All the Pretty Horses

  73. 73.

    zhena gogolia

    December 12, 2021 at 8:27 pm

    Not my genre at all. Raven mentioned Heartland with Conchata Ferrell, and I remember liking it when it came out. Not much memory of it now.

    I just watched a bunch of clips from The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, because I didn’t understand why a crossword puzzle had a clue that was something like, “Word for John Wayne,” and the answer was “pilgrim.” Now I guess I understand.

  74. 74.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 8:29 pm

    @Mike in NC: The novel is good. Didn’t see the series.

  75. 75.

    prostratedragon

    December 12, 2021 at 8:30 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:  The international trail of Westerns is an interesting subject on its own. For instance, I have the impression that Kurosawa was as much influenced by Westerns as he influenced the later ones. And of course there are Leone and other spaghetti Western makers. I’m sure it doesn’t stop there.

  76. 76.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 8:30 pm

    @Dan B: That’s a great point!

    I’ll look that guy up. Many thanks.

  77. 77.

    JPL

    December 12, 2021 at 8:31 pm

    They shoot horses don’t they, might be required viewing for what is occurring now.

  78. 78.

    NotMax

    December 12, 2021 at 8:31 pm

    @zhena gogolia

    Hmmm. Same number of letters as “asshole.”

    Coincidence?

    ;)

  79. 79.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 8:33 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: It does. Great film. Watching The Power of the Dog, I couldn’t help but think how much better it would have been with Day-Lewis. Not fair to Cumberbatch, who’s terrific, but D D-L has the most gravity.

  80. 80.

    eddie blake

    December 12, 2021 at 8:33 pm

    @raven:  the unforgiven is a remake?

  81. 81.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 8:34 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: We liked that a lot, too.

  82. 82.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 8:34 pm

    @Kent: I don’t care for the film, but you’re right it fits the bill.

    Jim Harrison’s novel much better.

  83. 83.

    HinTN

    December 12, 2021 at 8:35 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yes, and a damn good one.

  84. 84.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 8:36 pm

    @James E Powell: I hate that awful film. Worse than Shelter Island.

  85. 85.

    Travels with Charley

    December 12, 2021 at 8:37 pm

    Not sure a movie was ever made of this book, but I think jack Schaefer’s Monte Walsh captured the transition of the cowboy life beautifully.

  86. 86.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 8:37 pm

    @James E Powell: Been wanting to see Hi-Lo Country again, as it’s been a few decades. Hard to find.

    Lone Star is so fabulous. Criminally under-seen.

  87. 87.

    Haydnseek

    December 12, 2021 at 8:38 pm

    The Wild Bunch immediately comes to mind.  Probably already mentioned, but a perfect example of men dealing with an impending new era that has no place for them.

  88. 88.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 8:40 pm

    @Travels with Charley: Twice, Lee Marvin and Tom Selleck

  89. 89.

    zhena gogolia

    December 12, 2021 at 8:40 pm

    @eddie blake: Audrey Hepburn was in a film with that title — she played a native American (or part native American) who was raped. It was a traumatic film for me in childhood. I’m not sure the Eastwood film is a remake per se

    Hmmm this Wikipedia plot summary doesn’t mention the rape. Did I dream that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unforgiven_(1960_film)

  90. 90.

    El Cruzado

    December 12, 2021 at 8:41 pm

    Outside movies, Red Dead Redemption (the first one, the video game) is set in 1905 IIRC and plays a lot with those themes.

    As for Westerns I’ve seen that I haven’t seen mentioned above, “Hostiles” is technically set in 1892 but deals both with the changing times and the reckoning with what was done to the native tribes.

  91. 91.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    December 12, 2021 at 8:42 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Yup. I’d also argue that “From Dusk Til Dawn” is a 20th century horror western.

  92. 92.

    zhena gogolia

    December 12, 2021 at 8:44 pm

    @Travels with Charley: 2003 TV show with Tom Selleck.

  93. 93.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    December 12, 2021 at 8:44 pm

    @debbie:

    Loved News of the World. Also really loved the proper True Grit reboot (got back to the roots of the story as opposed to John Wayne strutting, Glenn Campbell smarminess of the 60s version).

  94. 94.

    eddie blake

    December 12, 2021 at 8:44 pm

    @zhena gogolia:  oh wow, it’s a burt lancaster film. i should ask my mom. she loves that guy’s work.

    ty. i had no idea.

  95. 95.

    eddie blake

    December 12, 2021 at 8:45 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:  jeff bridges’ true grit is SO good. such a well-made movie.

  96. 96.

    zhena gogolia

    December 12, 2021 at 8:47 pm

    @eddie blake: He’s very vivid in it.

  97. 97.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 8:49 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Completely different stories.

  98. 98.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    December 12, 2021 at 8:49 pm

    @raven:

    I love Coogan’s Bluff – it was super funny, and had that great foil of an NYOD lieutenant.

    As I recall, it was so popular they decided to produce McCloud.

  99. 99.

    James E Powell

    December 12, 2021 at 8:50 pm

    As it happens, I watched The Power of the Dog & Old Henry back to back last night.

    I was just in the mood.

    Western films I saw growing up are filled with all kinds of embarrassing & outrageous white supremacist bullshit. But I watched them anyway. I guess it’s because those of us born in the mid-50s were kind of raised on them. You go back to the first half of the 60s and there seemed to be at least one western show on every night. And on Saturday & Sunday mornings they showed re-runs of Bat Masterson, Have Gun Will Travel, Sugarfoot, The Rebel, Casey Jones, and – my favorite – Maverick.

  100. 100.

    NotMax

    December 12, 2021 at 8:51 pm

    Random aside:

    There’s any number of more atrocious spaghetti Westerns, but if you want to see an actor totally out of his element, check out Joseph Cotten in The Hellbenders. Currently streaming on Kanopy and on FlixFling.

    ;)

  101. 101.

    Nutmeg again

    December 12, 2021 at 8:51 pm

    Anybody else for 3:10 to Yuma?  Not a space western, just a western-western. I liked it, anyway. (NB., OK, so it was 2007…

    eta Space western, was that one with Daniel Craig. Aliens in the wild west.

  102. 102.

    Larch

    December 12, 2021 at 8:53 pm

    @artem1s: Ah, right! I knew the phrase was familiar but had forgotten that story. Personally, I think the description fits Earth 2 better, since that was actually about aspiring settlers, but it’s quite possible Roddenberry envisioned something a bit different for Star Trek from the show that actually resulted.  YMMV.

    WRT Earth 2, I was struck by how badly it was marketed so it kind of stuck with me.

  103. 103.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    December 12, 2021 at 8:53 pm

    @BGinCHI:

    Richard Brooks’s The Professionals (1966) is set sometime in the Mexican Revolution, so 1910-20. All-star cast, gorgeous cinematography by Conrad Hall—well worth watching. It shows up on TCM occasionally.

  104. 104.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 8:53 pm

    @zhena gogolia: You may have assumed it but you may be thinking of “The Searchers”  widely considered the first “Adult Western”.

  105. 105.

    billcinsd

    December 12, 2021 at 8:54 pm

    @BGinCHI: Firefly: Post-Civil War; Lost Cause mythology; Evil Central Government telling the little guy what to do; Evil minority analogues. The only thing not neo-Confederate was the lack of slavery.

    While I liked Firefly at the time, it is definitely an homage to the 1930s Westerns that were big on Dunning School interpretations of the Civil War and Reconstruction

  106. 106.

    debbie

    December 12, 2021 at 8:55 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    They’d make a great double bill!

  107. 107.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 8:56 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Tisha Sterling as the hippie chick on acid is. . .a trip!

  108. 108.

    zhena gogolia

    December 12, 2021 at 8:57 pm

    @raven: No, it was definitely Audrey Hepburn, not Natalie Wood. I can see her with a long ponytail, kind of thrown down in the dust and crying.

    I loved her hairstyle:
    https://twitter.com/autora_de_nada/status/910226071420854275

  109. 109.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 8:57 pm

    Well, The Treasure of the Sierra Madre checks a lot of boxes!

  110. 110.

    laura

    December 12, 2021 at 8:58 pm

    If your list doesn’t include Winter’s Bone, your list is for shite! Also, Chinatown.

  111. 111.

    eddie blake

    December 12, 2021 at 9:01 pm

    yojimbo and the seven samurai are both ur-westerns and are both about people trying to find their place in a world that is changing under their feet

    eta- but yeah, pretty far from the early 20th century.

  112. 112.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    December 12, 2021 at 9:01 pm

    @eddie blake: Flawless, by my count.

  113. 113.

    billcinsd

    December 12, 2021 at 9:02 pm

    @zhena gogolia: There was a Hitchcock remake that she was in that had a rape scene. It was the 1956 version of The Man Who Knew Too Much

    https://hiddenremote.com/2014/12/10/audrey-hepburn-in-a-hitchcock-film-rape-scene-the-hitch/

  114. 114.

    NotMax

    December 12, 2021 at 9:02 pm

    @Nutmeg again

    Unfortunately one has to contend with Glenn (“Well, I call it acting.”) Ford in the original version.

    ;)

  115. 115.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 9:05 pm

    @zhena gogolia: She was Native American but her adoptive parents kept it secret till Abe showed up.

  116. 116.

    James E Powell

    December 12, 2021 at 9:10 pm

    @billcinsd:

    Most everybody reads Firefly that way, but I thought of it more as what things would be like for Han Solo if the Empire struck back & won.

  117. 117.

    pajaro

    December 12, 2021 at 9:14 pm

    Days of Heaven, with Richard Gere, Sam Shepard and Brooke Adams is set in the early 20th Century, I believe.  It’s directed by Terance Malik and is visually stunning, although I’m petty hard pressed to give a plot summary.

  118. 118.

    Stephanie Luke

    December 12, 2021 at 9:15 pm

    @JPL: There were many things not to like about “The Power of the Dog”, even though I wanted desperately to like it because Cumberbach is one of my favorite actors. Set in Montana and filmed in New Zealand about Americans when Phil, one of the principal actors, is played by a Brit. A family of cattle ranchers where half (the parents) don’t live on the ranch. Lots of cowboys and no bunk house. Many details of riding and working cattle that were just plain wrong, which wouldn’t matter, but there is no excuse not to hire some technical experts, is there?  The character motivations got lost in the “art” of the filming and the (I assume) final editing. I guess if you read the book it is based on, it would have been more accessible, but I haven’t, so that’s my fault.

  119. 119.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 9:15 pm

    @pajaro: Filmed at “The Golden Hour”.

  120. 120.

    Cameron

    December 12, 2021 at 9:19 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: As is Near Dark, a personal favorite of mine.

  121. 121.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 9:19 pm

    @pajaro: He’s had bad luck, The Thin Red Line was awesome but came out at the wrong time.

  122. 122.

    way2blue

    December 12, 2021 at 9:20 pm

    I just finished watching ‘The Power of the Dog’.  Watching a Brit cowboy produced by a Kiwi company…  Complex non-traditional story with some very subtle plot twists that I’m not sure I grasped.  Probably need to read the book…

  123. 123.

    eddie blake

    December 12, 2021 at 9:22 pm

    @Cameron:  ahh. kathryn bigelow’s best movie next to strange days.

    good shit. the vampire movie that never says the word “vampire”.

  124. 124.

    debbie

    December 12, 2021 at 9:22 pm

    @raven:

    Yeah, but Badlands!

  125. 125.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 9:23 pm

    @debbie: Incredible.

  126. 126.

    Craig

    December 12, 2021 at 9:24 pm

    @pajaro: it’s hella good.

  127. 127.

    pajaro

    December 12, 2021 at 9:25 pm

     

    @BGinCHI:

    In all of the Jeff Bridges movies, we (and I) forgot the Last Picture Show, his first film, I believe.

  128. 128.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 12, 2021 at 9:25 pm

    @pajaro: It’s Terrence Malick. Days of Heaven was his second film after Badlands, one of my personal favorites, which was set in the West, but decidedly not a Western – it was based on the Starkweather-Fugate spree killers of the 1950’s.

  129. 129.

    Almost Retired

    December 12, 2021 at 9:26 pm

    Fascinating thread.  I wonder if there are silent movies from the late teens or twenties that addressed that transition contemporaneously – to appeal to people who remember the frontier before it closed?  The silent cinema was far more sophisticated in theme and nuanced in substance than we appreciate today, since we can’t get past the acting style.  I can’t imagine no one made a sentimental post-frontier Western?

  130. 130.

    Craig

    December 12, 2021 at 9:27 pm

    @raven: Néstor Almendros killed it on that one. So beautiful.

  131. 131.

    zhena gogolia

    December 12, 2021 at 9:27 pm

    @Craig: Linda Manz’s narration makes it.

  132. 132.

    Amir Khalid

    December 12, 2021 at 9:30 pm

    Two by Gore Verblinski: the animated Rango and The Lone Ranger, a sadly underrated movie with Armie Hammer and Johnny Depp. The former is a classic Western with animal characters and more than a faint whiff of spaghetti about it. The latter is an unsparing look at the lies, betrayal, and corruption that went into the winning of the West, and at the Lone Ranger mythos’ own part in whitewashing that sordid history. It blew up the movie franchise that Disney intended it to kick off, and Verblinski paid for that with his career.  It’s an unexpectedly challenging film, hence its very mixed critical and audience reaction.

  133. 133.

    Craig

    December 12, 2021 at 9:30 pm

    @zhena gogolia: oh yeah, for sure.

  134. 134.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 9:31 pm

    @Steeplejack (phone): I’ve seen that and I like it a lot.

    Thanks for the reminder.

    That whole “mercenary Western” theme shows up a lot in the later ones, seems to me.

  135. 135.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 9:35 pm

    @BGinCHI: Vera Cruz with Gary Cooper and Burt Lancaster.

     

    Warlock with Henry Fonda, Anthony Quinn and Richard Widmark.

  136. 136.

    NotMax

    December 12, 2021 at 9:36 pm

    @pajaro

    Sam Shepard? Neo-Western Thunderheart is an uneven but thoughtfully put together movie.

  137. 137.

    frosty

    December 12, 2021 at 9:36 pm

    @Nutmeg again: 3:10 to Yuma:  Elmore Leonard again

  138. 138.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 9:37 pm

    @Almost Retired: Great points. Need to look into that.

  139. 139.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 9:37 pm

    Little Big Man is one of the greats.

  140. 140.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 9:38 pm

    @Amir Khalid: ​
      I can’t BELIEVE I forgot about Rango when I put this together!
    One of my absolute favorite films. So smart, so re-watchable. Depp’s best performance.

  141. 141.

    Amir Khalid

    December 12, 2021 at 9:41 pm

    Does Dances with Wolves count as a Western? Because I really like that one too.

  142. 142.

    frosty

    December 12, 2021 at 9:42 pm

    Australian: The Man From Snowy River. Kirk Douglas again. It’s been a long time since I saw it so I don’t know if it meets the thread criteria. Nevertheless it has one of the most awesome scenes of horsemanship ever put onscreen.

  143. 143.

    Kalakal

    December 12, 2021 at 9:44 pm

    McCabe & Mrs Miller 1902 one of my favourites

    regarding space westerns Outland is pretty much a remake of High Noon

  144. 144.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 9:45 pm

    @frosty: Another great Aussie “Western” is The Proposition.

    With the underrated Danny Huston and a fab cast.

    ETA: Script & music by Nick Cave!

  145. 145.

    Benw

    December 12, 2021 at 9:47 pm

    Both feature older men struggling with the past, as well as young men who struggle with the future. Both films are consciously placed in this transitional time period, with one way of life giving way to another.

    Here’s a crazy thought: The Big Lebowski is a 20th century western. Sam Peckinpaw says yes.

  146. 146.

    eddie blake

    December 12, 2021 at 9:48 pm

    @Kalakal:  outland. SOOOOO good.

  147. 147.

    eddie blake

    December 12, 2021 at 9:50 pm

    @Benw: miller’s crossing feels like a western.

  148. 148.

    raven

    December 12, 2021 at 9:51 pm

    @Kalakal: Travelin Lady, Stay a while. . . 

     

    Funny that the lyrics are not the same as the song title, that Cohen was a joker.

  149. 149.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 12, 2021 at 9:51 pm

    @BGinCHI:

    Another great Aussie “Western” is The Proposition. 

    Fuck yes, mate.  Fuck yes.  Saw that the Music Box back in ’05.

  150. 150.

    Kalakal

    December 12, 2021 at 9:57 pm

    It’s another Aussie one and in many ways is its own thing but Walkabout has a lot of western elements. cultural collision and incomprehension, survival in a brutal environment etc. Nicholas Roeg made the Outback into one of the main characters

  151. 151.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 12, 2021 at 9:58 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    I’d also argue that “From Dusk Til Dawn” is a 20th century horror western.

    @Cameron:

    As is Near Dark, a personal favorite of mine. 

    How do you guys consider either of these to be Westerns?

  152. 152.

    Craig

    December 12, 2021 at 9:59 pm

    @Kalakal: watched Outland again a couple weeks ago. Not as great as I remembered, but still really good. Great supporting cast; pre Hill Street James B Sikking, Frances Sternhagen, John Ratzenberger, PH Moriarty longbefore Hatchet Harry in Lock Stock…, and a young as hell Clarke Peters way before The Wire. Brilliant role for Peter Boyle. Early middle aged Sean Connery finding his way.

  153. 153.

    Brachiator

    December 12, 2021 at 10:00 pm

    Both “Old Henry” (2021, dir. Potsy Ponciroli) and “The Power of the Dog” (2021, dir. Jane Campion) are set in the 20th century (1906 and 1925, respectively). Both feature older men struggling with the past, as well as young men who struggle with the future.

    Sorry I missed most of the discussion here. I will try to see both these films, but my first thought was why they were not about women dealing with change? Do these films at least have any substantial roles for women characters?

    Also one of many films that comes to mind that is a kind of western about transitions is The Last Picture Show.

     

    ETA. Really like Jane Campion as a director.

  154. 154.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 12, 2021 at 10:02 pm

    it’s so long ago that I watched it that my recollections are fuzzy, and so I hesitate to propose it, but Bad Day at Black Rock? very much set in the post-war western US, as I recall. A new kind of law man coming into a town with secrets?

  155. 155.

    BGinCHI

    December 12, 2021 at 10:10 pm

    @Brachiator: Power of the Dog features a female main character, and yes, she deals with a lot of shit.

    “Old Henry” has nary a woman in its entirety…..

  156. 156.

    debbie

    December 12, 2021 at 10:15 pm

    @Brachiator:

    My Brilliant Career is one of my all-time favorites!

  157. 157.

    Benw

    December 12, 2021 at 10:15 pm

    @eddie blake: good point

  158. 158.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 12, 2021 at 10:18 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    it’s so long ago that I watched it that my recollections are fuzzy, and so I hesitate to propose it, but Bad Day at Black Rock? very much set in the post-war western US, as I recall. A new kind of law man coming into a town with secrets? 

    Sounds right from what I remember.

  159. 159.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 12, 2021 at 10:22 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: the trailer makes me want to watch it again, not least for the vintage (1955) promotion An MGM Picture! In Eastman Color!

    Also I’d forgotten Spencer Tracy’s character had his own secrets. I thought he was a (not quite typical) G-Man

  160. 160.

    Kalakal

    December 12, 2021 at 10:23 pm

    The last 20 minutes or so of Blazing Saddles is set in the 20th century.

  161. 161.

    Brachiator

    December 12, 2021 at 10:23 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    The former is a classic Western with animal characters and more than a faint whiff of spaghetti about it. The latter is an unsparing look at the lies, betrayal, and corruption that went into the winning of the West, and at the Lone Ranger mythos’ own part in whitewashing that sordid history.

    I hate this remake of The Lone Ranger with every fiber of my being. The original radio series and later TV show were never intended to be anything more than lightweight amusement for kids, so to freight it down with the burden of history is pointless and rightfully confused and repelled the audience. The movie was never coherent. In early drafts it was about vampires. Johnny Depp’s self-indulgent performance upstages Hammer, but is wrong in so many ways that it negates the entire movie. Worse, I agree that it tries to redress history, but it still has to shoe in conventional heroic action, so the whole mess collapses on itself. Also I recall that most of the action takes place on a single, expensively constructed rail spur, which is boring as hell and poorly directed.

    Lone Ranger remakes have had an unfortunate history. The 1981 Legend of the Lone Ranger was dull and forgettable. And the lead actor playing the Ranger was so bad that his dialog was redone by Stacy Keach. Didn’t help.

  162. 162.

    laura

    December 12, 2021 at 10:25 pm

    @debbie: so many candy boxes…

  163. 163.

    joel hanes

    December 12, 2021 at 10:29 pm

    @TiredOfItAll: ​
     

    I thought Haruf’s Plainsong was one of the best books I read in 2020.

    But as a midwesterner, born and bred in Iowa, that opinion was probably overdetermined.

  164. 164.

    Josie

    December 12, 2021 at 10:29 pm

    Late to the thread, but I was thinking The Milagro Beanfield War might be a possibility.

  165. 165.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 12, 2021 at 10:31 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: In CinemaScope!

  166. 166.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 12, 2021 at 10:34 pm

    @TiredOfItAll: @joel hanes: those books sound really interesting

    thanks for the pointer

  167. 167.

    Another Scott

    December 12, 2021 at 10:38 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Reading up from the bottom, before I clicked your link, I thought you were referring to this – he looks the same!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  168. 168.

    Ksmiami

    December 12, 2021 at 10:42 pm

    @raven: Surly Joe…

  169. 169.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 12, 2021 at 10:44 pm

    Scrolling through the thread, has no one mentioned Yellowstone? I watched the first episode, and I found it interesting, but wasn’t compelled to continue. Maybe I will as winter grows long, but a lot of people I know loved it, it was one that at least half a dozen people I know quarantine-binged.

  170. 170.

    eddie blake

    December 12, 2021 at 10:46 pm

    @Brachiator:  that final sequence with the trains is some great film-making, though. almost redeems the whole movie.

    almost.

  171. 171.

    Wizend_guy

    December 12, 2021 at 10:47 pm

    The Wild Bunch. Check out the scene with the car.

  172. 172.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    December 12, 2021 at 10:57 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:

    A pointless journey against incredible odds, with heroes of dubious morality seeking redemption far away from the organs of civilization.

  173. 173.

    Cameron

    December 12, 2021 at 10:57 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: Near Dark: doesn’t the hero – in an age of motor vehicles – ride off on horseback to save the lady in distress?  How much more western do you need?

  174. 174.

    Cameron

    December 12, 2021 at 11:00 pm

    @Benw: I though Lebowski was more of a noir spoof – innocent guy dragged unsuspectingly into sinister intrigue.  Y’all wouldn’t have a white russian handy, would you?

  175. 175.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    December 12, 2021 at 11:03 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Remaking things in order to assuage the appetites of boomers for halcyon-shaded  nostalgia is a fool’s errand. They will always be grumpy about the effort because the original concepts, plot lines, characterizations and dialogue didn’t age well and have to be revised.

  176. 176.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    December 12, 2021 at 11:05 pm

    Does the Jamie Foxx Django class as a western? I say yes.

  177. 177.

    NotMax

    December 12, 2021 at 11:23 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    Oh, please. The Lone Ranger predates the earliest boomer. No reason to bring up and flog that chestnut.

  178. 178.

    patrick II

    December 12, 2021 at 11:27 pm

    It is not a movie, but there was a TV show called “Nichols” that was set in 1914.  James Garner played a sheriff in a small Arizona town that looked similar to a normal western — except Nichols rode a motorcycle.  I enjoyed the show and found the time period interesting — but the show only lasted one year.

  179. 179.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 12, 2021 at 11:41 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Gotcha.

  180. 180.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 12, 2021 at 11:42 pm

    @Cameron: I don’t remember.

  181. 181.

    Amir Khalid

    December 12, 2021 at 11:58 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Would the presumably more kid-friendly Lone Ranger that Disney wanted really have been a better movie? Would the original concept still have worked for audiences in the 2010s? I have my doubts on that.

  182. 182.

    oatler

    December 13, 2021 at 12:15 am

    Zachariah the “electric western” begins with the James Gang playing “Laguna Salada” with modern guitars and amps.

  183. 183.

    justawriter

    December 13, 2021 at 12:20 am

    Very late to this thread but someone must mention the wonderful The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean.

  184. 184.

    billcinsd

    December 13, 2021 at 12:26 am

    I nearly forgot to add The Adventures of Brisco County Jr. — definitely a Western, although checking I see it was set in 1893

  185. 185.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    December 13, 2021 at 12:36 am

    Cat Ballou

    Hud

  186. 186.

    Amir Khalid

    December 13, 2021 at 12:38 am

    Does anyone here remember a TV western about a pair of bounty hunters, a black Union veteran and a white former Confederate officer? I’m trying to remember the name of the show.

  187. 187.

    Brachiator

    December 13, 2021 at 12:39 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    Would the presumably more kid-friendly Lone Ranger that Disney wanted really have been a better movie? Would the original concept still have worked for audiences in the 2010s? I have my doubts on that.

    Hollywood often simply uses the name of something as a brand. And there will be more of this because the studios don’t know how to get people back into the theaters and are hoping that a flood of sequels, retreads, remakes and recycled works will lure people with stuff they once liked and are familiar with.

    I lack much of a nostalgia gene. So I wasn’t much looking to reproduce my childhood when I went to see the Lone Ranger. I went to see it because I liked Johnny Depp and could not believe that the movie was as bad as audiences and critics said it was.

    It was worse.

    Obviously, Disney got lucky with Pirates of the Caribbean, a movie that was more fun than anyone expected. But there was no prior narrative behind that film, just a dumb little Disneyland ride.

    There have been far better revisionist westerns. Little Big Man or even Quigley Down Under.

    I loved the Lone Ranger as a kid. But I outgrew it. I also had relatives who lived on a ranch. I grew up in Texas and have a good grasp of history in all its complexity. So the old west is not just stories for me.

    But I suspect that you may be right that contemporary audiences are too far removed from any connection to the old west or even stories about the old west. But they also don’t go to the movies for an ugly and largely incoherent history lesson disguised as an action adventure film.

    By contrast, Django Unchained had deeper historical references than I had expected. But even here some Tarantino fans were unhappy that they didn’t get an empty but masterful hipster movie with lots of quotable dialog. They also wanted more white boy heroes doing white boy heroic stuff.

  188. 188.

    NotMax

    December 13, 2021 at 12:43 am

    @Amir Khalid

    The Outcasts.

  189. 189.

    NotMax

    December 13, 2021 at 12:51 am

    @NotMax

    Different show entirely, which maybe a half dozen people tuned into.

    “Folks call me Frog.”

    :)

  190. 190.

    Brachiator

    December 13, 2021 at 12:55 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    The Outcasts

    A Confederate officer, who is now a bounty hunter, teams up with an ex-slave in the 1860s.

    Don Murray and Otis Young. Pretty good series.

    An interesting revision of western TV shows and movies which had a protagonist who had fought for the Confederacy.

  191. 191.

    prostratedragon

    December 13, 2021 at 1:00 am

    Buffalo Bill, Wyatt Earp, and Annie Oakley all lived well into the 20th century and knew movie people.

  192. 192.

    Brachiator

    December 13, 2021 at 1:07 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    More on The Outcasts

    From the show synopsis:

    “Jemal David and Earl Corey. One black, one white; one ex-Union soldier, one ex-Confederate officer; one ex-slave, one ex-slave owner. Together, they are the Outcasts.”

    The show didn’t last very long.

    The show was criticized for “excessive violence”, and was canceled after 26 episodes.

    I really don’t recall the show being all that violent. And I liked the chemistry between the two leads.

    I also liked the tension between the two characters, but TV audiences generally want to see the protagonists get along with each other.

    ETA. And the series was set in the 1870s, not 1860s.

  193. 193.

    NotMax

    December 13, 2021 at 1:10 am

    @prostratedragon

    Wyatt Earp, would-be screenwriter.

    Wyatt’s one-time compadre Bat Masterson became a sports writer in New York.

  194. 194.

    Jack Canuck

    December 13, 2021 at 1:13 am

    @eddie blake: Holy crap, someone else who rates Strange Days as highly as I do! I love that film, but it seems to be mostly unknown or just gets a ‘meh’ reaction.

  195. 195.

    NotMax

    December 13, 2021 at 1:17 am

    @Brachiator

    Remember Alias Smith and Jones?

  196. 196.

    Brachiator

    December 13, 2021 at 1:55 am

    @NotMax:

    Remember Alias Smith and Jones?

    Yep. It was a pleasantly ramshackle series. Looking it up on Wikipedia, I did not know that one of the leads, Pete Duel committed suicide, but ABC network execs insisted that the series continue.

  197. 197.

    NotMax

    December 13, 2021 at 2:00 am

    @Brachiator

    Yeah, the Peter Duel suicide was Big News at the time, splashed all over the inner sections of the newspapers.

  198. 198.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    December 13, 2021 at 2:35 am

    @Jack Canuck: I rented that when it came out and I had to turn it off because of the rape scene.  it was utterly disgusting. I can’t think of any other film I ever rented and declined to finish.

    I found it unsurprising when Bigelow endorsed torture in “Zero Dark Thirty”.  It’s obvious she has a non-con kink.​

  199. 199.

    sab

    December 13, 2021 at 3:28 am

    @NotMax: Alchohol is not a good remedy for depression, since it is also a depressant.

    I thought Peter Duel was a huge loss not just to his family but in general. So talented. So charismatic. Hollywood certainly does eat its own.

  200. 200.

    Geminid

    December 13, 2021 at 6:12 am

    Monte Walsh (1970) is set in Arizona around the turn of the 20th century, and is all about the changes coming to western life. Lee Marvin and Jack Palance play cowboys trying to adjust to a new world with railroads and corporate-owned ranches.

           Monte Walsh was remade in 2003 with Tom Sellick and Keith Carradine taking the place of Marvin and Palance. Isabella Rosselini plays the role of Martine Bernard, played in the original movie by Jeanne Moreau. I’ve only seen the remake, and I thought it was pretty good, with beautiful scenery. This version is set in Montana, and was filmed in Alberta, Canada.

  201. 201.

    zhena gogolia

    December 13, 2021 at 8:18 am

    Deuel.

  202. 202.

    Miss Bianca

    December 13, 2021 at 1:28 pm

    @justawriter: Even later to this thread, but I also was wondering why no one had yet mentioned The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean!

  203. 203.

    Bill Dunlap

    December 13, 2021 at 3:55 pm

    @BGinCHI: The Wild Bunch

  204. 204.

    Bill Dunlap

    December 13, 2021 at 3:58 pm

    @BGinCHI: The Wild Bunch

     

    @BGinCHI:

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