Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

A Senator Walker would also be an insult to reason, rationality, and decency.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

We still have time to mess this up!

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

This fight is for everything.

“More of this”, i said to the dog.

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

Let there be snark.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

People are complicated. Love is not.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Mid-Morning Open Thread: Friday the 13th Falls On A Monday This Month

Mid-Morning Open Thread: Friday the 13th Falls On A Monday This Month

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President Biden is far too decent a man to throw shade at TFG. His media team, I’m not so sure about…

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137Comments

  5. 5.

    Chris

    So, having a minor freakout over an employment situation. Last week, I got an email from USAJOBS over an application I put in ten months ago for a job I’d very much like to get and have a reasonable chance of getting due to knowing references in the department… except they wanted the contact information for my current manager and manager’s manager by COB of the following day. (My current job is private sector, not government).

    No, I haven’t told my manager that I’m working for work. My current place of employment doesn’t exactly thrill me and I’m not particularly close to the people in my immediate chain of command. But it’s the only job I’ve had since graduating mid-Great Recession that was stable, long-term, and offered good benefits, so while I don’t really like it here, I’m also extremely reluctant to leave it unless I’m sure it’s for a better offer.

    Unfortunately it’s USAJOBS, so there’s no phone number you can call to ask for clarification or exceptions, and emailing back doesn’t usually get a response either. I ended up putting down the information requested, along with a request that they let me know before contacting them. They didn’t acknowledge that part of the email, but I got a ping this morning from a different reference (not one of the two current managers) letting me know that they’d just been contacted by USAJOBS about the job I was applying for. I don’t know if they contacted the managers I asked them to hold off on contacting or not, but I am now getting terrified that they did, and that I’m going to get a none-too-thrilled phone call today or this week asking me what the hell is going on and if I’m planning on bailing on the company.

    What the FUCK possesses these people to specifically demand Current Supervisor Information, anyway? Normally I’d put it down to another company flexing its muscle at the proles, but with the feds I’m more inclined to put it down to general cluelessness. But seriously, it’s incredibly irresponsible: people get fired for this shit, and if you then decide you’re not going to offer them the job after all, what the fuck are they supposed to do?

  6. 6.

    Leto

    I won’t believe Biden is actually helping Kentuckians until he’s firing tp at them from a t-shirt cannon.

  7. 7.

    Brachiator

    @Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.): 

    I was talking with my sister over the weekend and noted how good it felt not to have to think about Trump or to react to his ego-driven foolishness. And speaking of which:

    Huh. I thought real presidents only helped people who voted for them. Seems Biden has a lot to learn.

    This kind of bullying “I only do favors for people who are nice to me” governance by resentment practically defined Trump’s character and his presidency. It was so malignant that the media, and a good chunk of the public, took it for granted.

    But damn, it feels good to have a president who is a decent adult, instead of the petulant man-baby we fortunately dumped last election.

  9. 9.

    Betty

    @Chris: I hope it works out for you, but you are right that applying for a job doesn’t mean getting it, and letting your employer know you are looking creates problems even if they don’t fire you. Fingers crossed.

  11. 11.

    Baud

    @Chris:

    I wouldn’t assume they will contact your current managers simply because they contacted people you told them they could contact.

  13. 13.

    Chris

    @Betty:

    Same here on the finger-crossing.

    Sure enough, just got a call from HR telling me that both my current supervisors reached out to them to say that they’d gotten an email asking about me, and to verify whether that was legit.  (I can’t exactly be angry with them for not reaching out to me, since I didn’t inform them ahead of time).  HR lady didn’t seem pissed but did say it would have been good protocol to inform them ahead of time, so now I have that damage control to take care of.

    All because they couldn’t be arsed to honor a simple “talk to me first” request.  Neither boss is exactly a mean person so hopefully I’m still fine, but I have no words for how pissed off I am at the fucking feds.  I swear there’s something in the water they give people when they become hiring managers.

  16. 16.

    Brachiator

    @Baud:

    The GOP have convinced too many people on our side that being good and decent is the equivalent of being weak.

    The GOP may play that game, but I don’t think that they have ever convinced many “on our side” at all.

    During the election campaign, for example, neither Trump nor anyone else in the GOP could ever successfully attack or diminish Biden’s reputation for being kind, generous and empathetic. And I have never seen any sane pundit successfully connect these traits  with any notion of weakness.

    And clearly, clearly Democratic Party voters believed that Biden’s character in this regard was superior to Trump’s.

  17. 17.

    Betty Cracker

    @Chris: God, that’s outrageous. I’m sorry those boneheads put you in such a stressful situation. Here’s hoping if you get the job, you won’t have to deal with them.

  18. 18.

    Mike in NC

    I found out about a book called “Hiding in Plain Sight: The Invention of Donald Trump and the Erosion of America” by Sarah Kendzior this past weekend and I cannot put it down. She lives in Missouri and bemoans what an awful place it is, a microcosm of Red State USA.

  20. 20.

    Baud

    @Brachiator:

    I don’t really read pundits, but it seems like a major topic of conversation on our side involves discussing how weak we are because we’re not awful like the GOP is.

  21. 21.

    jonas

    Nice to hear about the child tax credit helping lift families out of poverty. The MAGAts are motivated to turn out by promises from their pols to shit on other people (migrants, LGTBQ, etc.). Will the folks Biden is helping be motivated to turn out for Dems? It seems like we’re always disappointed on that end. No good deed going unpunished, etc.

  22. 22.

    narya

    @Chris: Good luck. You might say that you had applied a long time ago, aren’t sure how you’d feel about it now, blahblahblah. But yeah, that’s pretty annoying. If your current managers are smart, they’d ask how they can make your situation better so you don’t leave, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

  23. 23.

    Jay C

    @jonas:

    Sad fact of life in the USA these days:

    Democrats campaign by appealing to peoples’ interests.

    Republicans campaign by appealing to peoples’ prejudices.

     

    The really sad part is that it’s not always a given which appeal will work…..

  25. 25.

    Jay C

    @Brachiator:

    During the election campaign, for example, neither Trump nor anyone else in the GOP could ever successfully attack or diminish Biden’s reputation for being kind, generous and empathetic. And I have never seen any sane pundit successfully connect these traits  with any notion of weakness.

    True, but who listens (only/mainly) to *sane* pundits?

    And I saw a Tweet the other day from Ronna [Romney] McDaniel castigating President Biden’s dealings with Putin (presumably over Ukraine) as “appeasement”.

    I mean, seriously, WTF?

  27. 27.

    Brachiator

    @Baud:

    I don’t really read pundits, but it seems like a major topic of conversation on our side involves discussing how weak we are because we’re not awful like the GOP is.

    I agree that there is sometimes some hand wringing about this. But it is stupid, over-exaggerated and unproductive.

    It also is often more reflective of the fears of some commenters and is not reflected in the feelings of average Democrats.

    People should openly discuss their fears and concerns. But this is not always the same thing as political reality.

    To put it more bluntly, I sometimes read comments here about how weak we are. I never have conversations like this with friends and family, who are a pretty diverse group of longtime Democrats.

    We did not have to be as bad as the GOP to win the presidency in 2020.

    What, exactly, is the upside of being vile, resentful and mean-spirited?

  30. 30.

    Another Scott

    @Chris:

    HR lady didn’t seem pissed but did say it would have been good protocol to inform them ahead of time, so now I have that damage control to take care of.

    (Emphasis added.)

    That’s BS. There’s no “good protocol” that says that you should tell your current employer that you’ve sent out resumes.

    The job market is the strongest it has been in decades. You have leverage. Don’t panic. And if they want to punish you for sending out resumes, well, you really don’t want to stay in such a place, do you?

    Good luck!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  31. 31.

    Baud

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Agreed. Our problem is that it’s hard to win a culture war when a significant number of our fighters seems to agree that the other side’s culture is the stronger one.

  33. 33.

    rikyrah

    @Baud:

     

    I don’t really read pundits, but it seems like a major topic of conversation on our side involves discussing how weak we are because we’re not awful like the GOP is.

     

    No, we aren’t weak.

    As long as we see the GOP for who they are…that’s not weakness.

    Now, the muthaphuckas with blinders on, and refuse to see the GOP for what they are…they aren’t weak, just fools.

  34. 34.

    Brachiator

    @Chris:

    Kind of a tough situation. But did you really think that your new employers would only talk to your current employers if they offered you a job?

    Anyway, if it comes up, you could be honest and  note that it was ten months ago and that you were looking at opportunities within and outside your company.

    Aside from the benefits and stability, are there other good aspects to your current job? Could anything change that would make it better for you?

    Hope things work out.

  36. 36.

    Chris

    @Baud:

    Hope so, but the interview hasn’t even happened yet, so fingers crossed.

    @narya:

    Thanks!  Yeah, I’ll find some way to try and finesse it.

    @Another Scott:

    To be clear, the point wasn’t “you should have told us you were looking for another job,” the point was “you should have told your current managers before listing them and their emails as references,” which is much more defensible.  But of course you don’t want to let them know until you absolutely have to, because, well, who wants to put up a big flashing neon sign above their heads that says “THIS PERSON MAY BE LEAVING SOON?”

    Thanks for the good luck wishes, as well.

  37. 37.

    Brachiator

    @Jay C:

    And I saw a Tweet the other day from Ronna [Romney] McDaniel castigating President Biden’s dealings with Putin (presumably over Ukraine) as “appeasement”.

    99% of GOP blather is partisan bullshit. The remaining 1% is just wrong.

  40. 40.

    Edmund Dantes

    @Chris: stupid thing is any good HR department has already told people to only confirm time of employment and that you worked there. Nothing more.

    It’s just companies being fucking stupid and forcing job seekers into bad spots.

  41. 41.

    Brachiator

    @Baud:

    RE: What, exactly, is the upside of being vile, resentful and mean-spirited?

     It apparently helps if you’re looking for a cult following.

    If you need a lefty cult, become a Bernie bro.

  42. 42.

    Another Scott

    @Baud:

    Horse’s mouth – OPM Reference Checking Guide (7 page .pdf):

    Reference checks are conducted once the applicant pool is narrowed down to the top candidate(s).

    […]

    Should I obtain a candidate’s consent to check their references?

    Yes, when you ask a candidate to provide references, you should obtain their permission to contact their references. Consent can also be granted via language on the job application (e.g., a statement that all information provided by the candidate will be
    verified), the Declaration for Federal Employment form (OF-306) or a similar agency-developed form, or orally (e.g., during the interview).

    What if the candidate asked not to contact their current supervisor?

    This is a common request (and is often an option within online staffing systems). One option is to ask if their current supervisor can be contacted once a tentative offer has been extended to the candidate.

    If a candidate has asked their current supervisor not be contacted, ask the candidate to provide alternative references.

    I don’t know what consent one gives on the USAJobs applications, but presumably the first item – references are contacted when top candidates have been chosen – still applies.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  43. 43.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    On an amusing note, the Countess and I did a cleanout of a mutual box into which went my college, law school and premarriage “young adult” photos and paper memorabilia, along with all her stuff going back to fourth grade or so.  There were loads of raised eyebrows and many many uncomfortable moments of “who is this girl you were taking such nice, candid photos of, and is she still in contact with you?” (The answers were frequently “I don’t remember her name”, because frankly, the Facebook stalking of the names would just be an annoyance. I only say hello to them in generic greeting as most of them stopped hating me years ago, and most of them friended me first).

    She did have a love letter from an old college boyfriend who said “you say I never write so here’s a letter – fuck you”, which then went on and on about life and bands. She also had some set of letters from a sophomore boyfriend she’d met in Paris on some school thing.  It was all pretty fun – we tossed most of it, kept a few things.

    Fun fact – people don’t all age the same. The girl I liked most in the bunch ended up marrying someone from the sticks, moved away from the city, went evangelical and went from stunning to meh pretty early on.

  45. 45.

    lollipopguild

    @Brachiator: The upside of being vile, mean and resentful is that you never have to apologize or explain anything. Also some people will see you as “strong” and “dicisive”. (I am being very sarcastic here.)

  46. 46.

    Roger Moore

    @Brachiator:

    The GOP may play that game, but I don’t think that they have ever convinced many “on our side” at all.

    A fair number of the loud, very online leftists are in the “we must hurt our political opponents to teach them not to oppose us” school.  I don’t think we should let those people drive our politics, especially because they aren’t at all committed to working with us, but it would be a mistake to think they aren’t out there.

  48. 48.

    Another Scott

    @Chris:

    To be clear, the point wasn’t “you should have told us you were looking for another job,” the point was “you should have told your current managers before listing them and their emails as references,” which is much more defensible.

    I don’t think that makes any sense either. Of course potential new employers are going to want to contact your previous management. Part of management’s job is talking with others about their employees.

    What they’re telling you just seems weird (and wrong) to me.

    You have no control over whether someone contacts your manager or HR about you. E-mail addresses are easy to find.  Credit checks, security checks, even dating apps, etc., all involve questions about employment.

    Here’s hoping that it’s very temporary stress and everything works out well!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  49. 49.

    Roger Moore

    @Baud:

    Our problem is that it’s hard to win a culture war when a significant number of our fighters seems to agree that the other side’s culture is the stronger one.

    I’m not sure that I would describe those people as “our fighters”.  It gets down to the difference between friends and allies of convenience.  The very online left doesn’t accept that the culture war is important, or at least not the parts that involve paying careful attention to rectifying the problems of disadvantaged groups.  They want to focus everything on the economic issues that matter most to them, any anyone or anything that suggests those are not the most important issues of the day is a distraction.

  50. 50.

    Geminid

    @Roger Moore: I put this tweet about disaster relief up yesterday, but it’s worth repeating:

         Trump denying disaster relief to blue states and Puerto Rico, and arrogant/entitled white liberals and leftists wanting to break the country in two so that red states might suffer a penalty for “tolerating” bad local governance, are two sides of the same selfish coin.

    @Kenneth House of Pfizer, Dec. 11 2021.

  51. 51.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Cameron: The goobers are really leaning into this whole “declare an emergency on anything and everything so you can be cruel by decree” thing, aren’t they?

    Meanwhile, the same people who are living this are really big on buying tickets to see “A Christmas Carol” and shriek a lot about honoring Jesus.

  52. 52.

    Kent

    @Jay C: And I saw a Tweet the other day from Ronna [Romney] McDaniel castigating President Biden’s dealings with Putin (presumably over Ukraine) as “appeasement”.

    @Brachiator: 99% of GOP blather is partisan bullshit. The remaining 1% is just wrong

    You forgot the 50% that is pure projection.

    But then I guess these aren’t mutually exclusive categories.

  53. 53.

    Baud

    @Roger Moore: 

    The online left epitomizes acting like Republicans in terms of machismo, dick-wagging “toughness,” but I don’t think the behavior is limited to them.

  54. 54.

    Roger Moore

    @Geminid:

    I guess I understand the impulse to deny aid to places whose elected representatives have voted to deny aid in the past.  It’s a destructive impulse and we need to avoid giving in to it, but it’s a comprehensible one.  I do think it’s important to point out the hypocrisy of people who want to deny help to others but go screaming for it themselves, even if we aren’t going to deny them help as retaliation.

  55. 55.

    Ksmiami

    Biden needs to go on the fucking offensive and start battering the fascist GOPers. The battle for our democracy is here and he needs to accurately portray them as the enemy- because they are

  56. 56.

    Kent

    @Baud: TPM’s Josh Marshall has written extensively about what he calls the “bitchslap theory of politics”

    I don’t know what the answer is, but letting bullshit go unanswered is itself also problematic.

  58. 58.

    rikyrah

    @Geminid:

     

    I don’t want to not send the aid to the Red States.

     

    I just want the Red State muthaphuckas like Rand Paul, who voted AGAINST help to other states, be made to beg on TV for it.

     

    is that too much?

  59. 59.

    Ksmiami

    @Omnes Omnibus: do you enjoy losing? Because I hate it. It doesn’t mean we have to sell our souls. Just tell the truth about Republicans – no one should vote for them.

  63. 63.

    Brachiator

    @Roger Moore:

    A fair number of the loud, very online leftists are in the “we must hurt our political opponents to teach them not to oppose us” school. I don’t think we should let those people drive our politics.

    They don’t.

    In the last election, many “extreme” leftist activists, Independents, people who typically vote third party, voted for Biden. They recognized the danger Trump posed.

    As long as I have been even vaguely interested in politics, I have known people who love to espouse “both mainstream parties are bad,” and “we must be pure,” blah blah blah nonsense.

    The UK is currently being led by a monster who is much like Trump, Boris Johnson. In a political commentary section I ran across a person who honestly and sincerely posted that it would be better for the UK to be governed by the Tories for 100 years than for people to elect an “insincere” corporatist Labour leader like Starmer. Other people insisted that he could not possibly represent the working class because he is a lawyer.

    Purity ponies have always been around. Best not to pet them.

    ETA: Once, years ago, on coming out of the post office, I encountered a stunningly beautiful woman who was passing out literature for Lyndon Larouche. We chatted a bit. Or, I should say that I tried to chat, and she had to spew cult nonsense.

    I always thought it sad that a woman who was so scorching hot was also nuts.

  64. 64.

    Geminid

    @rikyrah:  I would like to see Rand Paul crawl, too. But President Biden has already said he was sending the aid, so that horse is out of the barn already. Hopefully Rand Paul will be questioned about his hypocrisy, if not by the media then in next years debates. If he debates.

    I think Biden’s approach is the right one, both morally and politically.

  65. 65.

    Gravenstone

    @Roger Moore: I guess I understand the impulse to deny aid to places whose elected representatives have voted to deny aid in the past.

    “Simply because the esteemed junior Senator from Kentucky is a mewling and spoilt child when it comes to helping our fellow countrymen is no cause for the rest of us to behave so poorly.”

  66. 66.

    Roger Moore

    @Brachiator:

    I always thought it sad that a woman who was so scorching hot was also nuts.

    Cultists love that kind of person, because they create engagement.  That’s what cults thrive on.  Talking to a cult member is the first step to being sucked in, and sex appeal is a well established strategy for getting people to talk.

  67. 67.

    Old School

    @Ksmiami:

    Just tell the truth about Republicans – no one should vote for them.

    I saw a billboard this morning:

    “Do not vote for Republicans. Ever.”

    So someone is getting your message out.

  69. 69.

    Geminid

    @Brachiator: I sometimes think that the LaRouche group went over to the Green Party when he died. The two groups share a certain culty creepiness. I used to read LaRouche literature, and when a Green Party candidate ran for Virginia office in the 1990’s I saw some common elements in her platform. Those LaRouche loonies must have gone somewhere, and they were tightly organized enough to take over a small party.

  70. 70.

    dopey-o

    @Mike in NC:I found out about a book called “Hiding in Plain Sight: The Invention of Donald Trump and the Erosion of America” by Sarah Kendzior this past weekend and I cannot put it down. She lives in Missouri and bemoans what an awful place it is, a microcosm of Red State USA.

    Mizery is far worse than that. Outside of a few blue counties, it is the worst of the Olde South. The official position of the State on Covid is “What Covid? I don’t see no Covid” as testing, tracing, data compilation, and outreach have stopped.

    Reasons? Eric Schmidt, Attorney General, is running in a primary for Roy Blunt’s Senate seat, and wants to be seen as the enemy of those urban, dark skinned liberal pinko gay kommies in STL and KC.

    “It will work!” as Dr. Frankenstein proclaimed in Mel Brooks’ prescient film noire, portraying the labors of the GOP in the 21st century.

  71. 71.

    Brachiator

    Thanks to my American Rescue Plan, we’re cutting child poverty in America by more than 40 percent.
    Millions of children who spent last Christmas in poverty will not bear that burden this holiday season.

    This is what Biden should be rightly talking about. And also about how his policies are good for the middle class.

    While putting together notes for a tax law update class, I came up with this simple example:
    A married couple with 2 kids earns $100,000. They pay $10,000 for child care. Assuming that they did not have any federal income tax withheld at all, in 2020 they would have a tax balance of $3,432. In 2021, same facts, they would get a refund of $3,000.

    This is thanks to the enhanced child tax credit and a now refundable child care credit.

    I think that on average refunds will be larger in 2021. This will help individuals. This will help families and  this will also be good for the economy,

  73. 73.

    Brachiator

    @Roger Moore:

    RE: I always thought it sad that a woman who was so scorching hot was also nuts.

    Cultists love that kind of person, because they create engagement.  That’s what cults thrive on.  Talking to a cult member is the first step to being sucked in, and sex appeal is a well established strategy for getting people to talk.

    Didn’t work. To this day, I recall how strikingly beautiful this woman was. But her lunacy drove me away. I refused to take any of the literature she was handing out. And trying to talk to her was a waste of time.

    While going to a medical appointment I see the Scientologists still using some of the same tactics. A woman with beautiful eyes (and wearing a mask) handing out literature, but with erratic results.

  75. 75.

    Old School

    @Baud: The billboard had a name attached to it.  “Paid for by John Smith.”  However, I no longer remember the individual’s name and didn’t recognize it.  I wondered if it was a national campaign or a local one.

  76. 76.

    Kent

    @Geminid: Yes, and Ralph Nader was part of the Larouche/Green Party convergence.  He had the same type of cult following and all the PIRG business of having college students canvas the country door to door for donations was pretty damn cultish.  And I say this as someone who did that for a short bit in college before coming to my senses.

  77. 77.

    Soprano2

    @Baud: “Why aren’t Democrats fighting?!” is a regular topic of discussion on Twitter by people who have no understanding of how government is supposed to work, and instead think Joe Biden and “Democrats” can make things happen by decree like Trump tried to.

  79. 79.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Soprano2: Do Something Twitter and Rose Twitter decided this weekend that Joe Biden campaigned on eliminating student debt, and are demanding he keep this campaign promise he never made.

  80. 80.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Brachiator:

    I always thought it sad that a woman who was so scorching hot was also nuts.

    Crazy has a value all its own short term. More than a long weekend, though, and it becomes problematic.

    I became a long-term, hard-working Dukakis volunteer when I really didn’t have the time or money because of this fact of life.

  81. 81.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    @Hoppie: My Dad ALWAYS said this to me re the 13th.  He also let me use his Pogo and Peanuts books from the ’50s as coloring books.  What a great dad he was.

  82. 82.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Jeffro:

    LOL – I split out a group of the photos I kept to place in a book I know she’ll never take off the shelf, just in case I face the Inquisition again.

    (She will NEVER be interested in the Easter Uprising of 1916)

  83. 83.

    Soprano2

    @rikyrah: No, it’s not. I think the delegations from NY and NJ would be within their rights to vote against aid to Kentucky based on the fact that the Kentucky senators and reps voted against aid for them.

  84. 84.

    Geminid

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: @Mangy Jay has put out some typically thoughtful tweets on the student debt question. She has her own student debt, but puts the matter of relief in the context of other debt, like medical. Because of fierce pushback, she pulled a couple tweets back so she could word them better. She did emphasize, though, that people who want to push a particular policy priority should first consider the question, are there groups more vulnerable than my own?

    I don’t know what got it going, but student debt has been a hot topic of late. I guess it’s because the moratorium on payments is set to expire.

  85. 85.

    Soprano2

    @dopey-o: Mizery is far worse than that. Outside of a few blue counties, it is the worst of the Olde South.

    This is true in my experience here in SWMO. I knew a man who considered MO to be the 12th Confederate state because half the people in the state wanted to secede. Did you know we have the only Confederate section in a National Cemetery in all of the U.S. right here in Springfield?

    The state GOP thinks that if only counties would quit collecting information about Covid, it would quit being a problem! The definitely belong to the “clap louder” club.

  86. 86.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Geminid: I saw that thread and then that she pulled it. Says something that people would drive a thoughtful person to that point

  87. 87.

    Citizen Alan

    @Baud: I think it comes down to how galling it is to always be the ones to turn the other cheek after being slapped by the people who most loudly claim to be Christians.

  88. 88.

    Soprano2

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: They have absolutely no idea whether it would even be legal for Biden to do that, and how negatively it would be covered in the press. I think Biden is doing a good job of excusing certain types of student loans, and they got that program that promised people loan forgiveness after 10 years if they entered certain professions running a lot better. None of the “do something now” people ever talk about that! I think it would be extremely unpopular with the majority of voters for Biden to try to issue a sweeping forgiveness like that – “Biden forgives student loan debt to Harvard, Yale graduates” would be the headline, and it would be technically correct, plus many people would feel that it was unfair to people who already paid their debts. Now, I don’t think that’s an argument with much validity, but a lot of people would feel that way and parrot that line.

  89. 89.

    quakerinabasement

    @Chris: Calm down. If you recently graduated, your current employer isn’t going to be surprised that you’re keeping an eye open for new opportunities. It’s expected.

    If anything, knowing that there’s interest in you from other companies will make your current employer value you more.

  90. 90.

    Citizen Alan

    @Geminid: If it were ever my call and push came to shove, of course I would support providing disaster relief for red states and Trump voting areas like any decent person would. But I really wish there was a way to force red-staters to confront the fact that “the only reason you’re getting help right now is because we’re more moral than you and the people you vote for.”

  92. 92.

    Brachiator

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Crazy has a value all its own short term. More than a long weekend, though, and it becomes problematic.

    I hear you, but I decided very early on that there was some drama and crazy that I never wanted to deal with.

    I became a long-term, hard-working Dukakis volunteer when I really didn’t have the time or money because of this fact of life.

    Again I hear you. In my college days, I volunteered for a political campaign because of a hottie (and the worthiness of the cause). Even wrote a short story about it.

  93. 93.

    germy

    NEW YORK (AP) – U.S. Senate candidate Mehmet Oz will end his “Dr. Oz” syndicated talk show next month, and producers will replace it with a cooking show featuring his daughter.

    The “Dr. Oz” show, in its 13th season, will air its last episode on Jan. 14, Sony Pictures Television said on Monday.

    The heart surgeon and talk show host is running for the U.S. Senate as a Republican in Pennsylvania. Television stations in Philadelphia, New York City and Cleveland that are seen in Pennsylvania had already taken “Dr. Oz” off the air, for fear that the Federal Communications Commission’s “equal time” rules would allow rival candidates to seek similar air time.

  94. 94.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Soprano2:

    Well, to be fair, I did see a headline for an article in the NYT yesterday about how many Trump loyalists were taking over election positions across the country and that the Democratic Party has made few moves in response

  97. 97.

    Geminid

    @Soprano2: I’ve read that total student debt is $1.7 trillion, and that half is for graduate and professional school. I think Congress needs to approve an expenditure that big. Elizabeth Warren says President Biden can do this by executive order, but Speaker Pelosi says this would require an act of Congress, and I think she is right. I am starting to wonder about Warren. I thought a lot of her during last year’s primaries, but I see Warren in a different light now, and not just because of the student debt issue.

  100. 100.

    Roger Moore

    @Brachiator:

    One of the reasons cults survive is because it doesn’t take long to get someone onboard, just a few days.  This is one of the reasons the sex appeal thing is successful.  You get someone to think they’re going to get a long weekend of sex, and instead- or maybe in addition- they get cult indoctrination.  By the time the long weekend is over, they’re part of the cult.

  101. 101.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Geminid:

    Warren strikes me as cocksure and not that smart. The whining about Amazon that she and Sanders do is embarrassing, as they invoke a lot of “monopoly” language.

    There’s literally two competitors of comparable size to Amazon plying their way into Western markets (Rakuten and Ali Baba), plus, there’s nothing that Amazon has that I can’t buy on other equally accessible online sellers. The only thing that Amazon has that consistently drives me to it is rapid delivery and top class customer support – I know that if there’s a problem, the return is easy or I’ll simply get a refund, no questions asked.

  102. 102.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Roger Moore:

    A fair number of the loud, very online leftists are in the “we must hurt our political opponents to teach them not to oppose us” school.

    Some prominent liberal bloggers are getting there.

    I have to admit it has a dark attraction. If we’re already in a soft civil war, why aren’t we hitting back? Will they stop hurting the country if we can’t make them afraid of us? Physically afraid? They do it to us…

    (Though part of it is that they’re already deathly afraid of some of us, and that gives them justification for harmful behavior. You’ll notice the tough-guy talk tends to emanate from straight white liberals, the people who are most likely to see the problem as being that the Republicans think they’re wimps, rather than terrorists or child-rapists or rioters.)

  103. 103.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Geminid:

    and arrogant/entitled white liberals and leftists

    These leftists, were they elected president? Senate? House? Dogcatcher?

    Equating a bunch of whining whiners on the social medes to elected leaders of one of two major parties lacks…perspective maybe?

  105. 105.

    Another Scott

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Warren strikes me as cocksure and not that smart.

    She strikes me as confident and smart, but her background is in law and bankruptcy and so forth. Sometimes she gets out over her skis a little. She’s one person, and pushing things from the left doesn’t hurt.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  106. 106.

    Brachiator

    @Roger Moore:

    One of the reasons cults survive is because it doesn’t take long to get someone onboard, just a few days. This is one of the reasons the sex appeal thing is successful.

    Some cults succeed. Others fail. Some become respectable major religions.

    You get someone to think they’re going to get a long weekend of sex, and instead- or maybe in addition- they get cult indoctrination. By the time the long weekend is over, they’re part of the cult.

    I have known a few people who got ensnared by cults. For them, sex had nothing to do with it.

    But I take your point.

  107. 107.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The things I know for sure, coming from a long line of central Kentucky trailer trash on my maternal line:

    1. The voters of Western Kentucky firmly believe they’re entitled to all the aid they will receive.

    2. The most meager assistance provided by fundamentalist Christian congregations will be magnified as the greatest thing ever and proves that the best efforts are personal and private and godly. At the same time, the more substantial assistance by government and secular aid entities will be minimized in messaging and appreciation.

    3. They wholeheartedly agreed with what Rand Paul said and did in the past, and would continue to be in agreement with those positions and votes right now.

    4. In upcoming elections, they will continue to vote for Rand Paul and Mitch McConnell, because this aid is coming to them as a matter of right, not as concern from other people.

    5. If Babyface Lunatic Tom Massie’s district were affected, he’d be using disaster photo ops to talk about abortions, tax burdens and guns.

    6. The most important things in the minds of Mayfield voters are (in no particular order, and in their terms) coloreds, lippy dykes, Muslim threats, Jews running everything, communism, muh  tax munnies, homos, cross-dressers, people who don’t want fundamentalism imposed by law and the tyranny of environmental regulations.

  108. 108.

    artem1s

    @Citizen Alan:

    Do Rightwingers really like A Christmas Carol? I’d have assumed they all see it as a terrifying horror story in which a successful man of business is frightened into becoming a socialist by evil spirits.

    They see it as a conversion story where Christianity wins out over secularism. Marley comes back from the dead and warns Scrooge what will happen to him if he doesn’t convert asap.

    To them it’s not a labor rights story. It’s an warning about stock markets, banking and powerful financial institutions taking over the country. Incredibly anti-Semitic if you view it in just the right light.

  109. 109.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Another Scott:

    What she SHOULD be doing is pushing for the restoration of  the dischargeability of student loans by bankruptcy, say under the same sort of rules that apply to tax debt. Nobody would have a problem with that, and it would go a long way to restoring equities.

    Also, the current means test for Chapter 7 sucks dog balls. I have to struggle to get the math to work in order to get Ford assembly line workers discharged in Kentucky, for fuck’s sake. There’s a lot of states in that same predicament.

  112. 112.

    Brachiator

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    There’s literally two competitors of comparable size to Amazon plying their way into Western markets (Rakuten and Ali Baba)

    Also, Walmart is larger than Amazon in terms of revenues, 559 billion vs 386 billion.

    I think that Warren’s positions were far better thought out than, say, anything that Sanders proposed, but I still disagreed with many of her proposed solutions.

  113. 113.

    Roger Moore

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The need to project toughness is most often a cover for feelings of inadequacy.  People who are genuinely tough and know it don’t feel the need to brag about it.  The kind of people who are fooled by the show wouldn’t recognize the real thing.  And, frankly, they won’t be impressed by the Democrats’ program even if they add daily doses of beating up Republicans.  Just wanting to use your power to help the powerless is a sign of weakness to them, and they’ll never get behind a political program that does that.

  114. 114.

    artem1s

    @Soprano2:

    “Biden forgives student loan debt to Harvard, Yale graduates” would be the headline, and it would be technically correct, plus many people would feel that it was unfair to people who already paid their debts.

    It’s a thing all right. The middle class and poor people who lost their homes and watched Obama bail out Jamie Diamond definitely voted GOPer 2010, 2012, 2014 and 2016.  Not saying that’s an accurate take, but it stuck with white suburban Americans. The people who continued to pay their bills during W’s recession felt a little like rubes. It’s no wonder so many decided the country’s expert on bankruptcy was their hero.

  115. 115.

    Another Scott

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I think she’s a few steps ahead of you (but IANAL and haven’t looked at the details).

    Warren.Senate.gov:

    The Consumer Bankruptcy Reform Act will:

    * Make it easier and less expensive for financially-strapped families and individuals to obtain financial relief by replacing the two separate consumer bankruptcy chapters with a single system available to all consumers, streamlining the filing process, and reducing filing fees.

    * Ensure that filers can care for themselves and their families during the bankruptcy process by helping renters with back rent avoid eviction and continue to make payments, making student loan debt dischargeable in bankruptcy, and allowing people to protect their homes and cars during the bankruptcy process.

    * Help address racial and gender disparities in the bankruptcy system by ending the special privilege that prevents people from discharging local government fines in bankruptcy; preventing individuals from obtaining relief from debts arising from civil rights violations; and exempting sources of income and assets traceable to alimony, child support income, the child tax credit, and the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC).

    * Close loopholes that allow the wealthy to exploit the bankruptcy system, including the “Millionaire’s Loophole” and “spendthrift clause loophole.”

    * Crack down on predatory practices and hold corporate wrongdoers accountable by banning collection of debts that violate consumer protection laws, allowing lawsuits against creditors that attempt to collect previously discharged debt, and preventing creditors from pursuing consumers in mandatory arbitration.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  116. 116.

    Gravenstone

    @Chief Oshkosh: One must maintain appearances of conviviality when calling out the shitheads across the aisle. Sort of the same line of reasoning about being able to say anything to an Officer in the service, as long as the words “yes Sir” figure prominently.

  117. 117.

    Ruckus

    @Brachiator:

    And clearly, clearly Democratic Party voters believed that Biden’s character in this regard was superior to Trump’s.

    And clearly you are correct but for many that I know there was never a question that the janitor at a local golf course is extremely likely to  have a far better character than SFB.

  119. 119.

    Geminid

    @Chief Oshkosh: I’m not sure you are attributing a lack of perspective to the tweeter. I’ve read his work, and I can tell he is a stalwart backer of President Biden and almost all elected Democrats. When he speaks of “arrogant/privileged liberals and leftists,” he is referring to a loud but small group of vindictive whiners.

  120. 120.

    Ruckus

    @Ksmiami:

    Isn’t a president supposed to be the president of all of us?

    So just because rethuglicans don’t think or act like that does that mean we beat them over the head with the same shit? How does that make us better?

    Just some random thoughts…..

  121. 121.

    Roger Moore

    @Ruckus:

    I think there’s a group of people on the left who think threats are effective.  In particular, they think Trump has successfully convinced people to vote for him by threatening to withhold money and generally treating anyone who refused to vote for him as not deserving full government services.  They’re angry that Democrats aren’t willing to do the same thing.  I think they’re wrong- Trump attracted a lot more votes by passing out government largess than by threatening people who didn’t vote for him- but I understand the thinking.

  122. 122.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Roger Moore: I think Trump retained a lot of fierce Republican loyalty by actively hurting Democrats. It had a transgressive thrill–nobody before had the BALLS to do the horrible, destructive things they wished for!

  124. 124.

    Roger Moore

    @Matt McIrvin:

    You’re probably right that Trump’s eagerness to own the libs helped him with the Republican base.  But that was more about driving turnout rather than convincing anyone who didn’t already think his way.  Meanwhile, the typical Democratic voter just isn’t that excited about owning the conservatives, so elected Democrats publicly punishing conservative voters for voting the wrong way just isn’t going to have the same effect.

  125. 125.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Another Scott:

    Judging by that list, she clearly fails to understand the process and is operating off of studies. Frankly, she is swinging so hard for the fences in order to punish even good lenders that this measure can’t help but fail.

    1. It is incredibly streamlined now, with multiple platforms offering efile options at reasonable rates. Lawyers no longer have to go with Best’s ridiculous annual licensing fee, which keeps costs lower than ever.

    2. There’s never been a problem for the very poor to get in forma pauperis status on filing, and I’ve never heard any of my clients gripe about the filing fee.

    3. The FDCPA is always there to hammer lenders and factors who try to collect discharged debt and debt past the statute of limitations. New law isn’t needed to do that.  It’s not that large an institutional issue anyway.

    4. People with homes and cars are ALREADY helped in the bankruptcy process with the reaffirmation/surrender/redemption process.  Frankly, keeping defaulted tenants in rental residences longer (also, not a gigantic problem) whips up opposition from small landlords who may otherwise support easier bankruptcy, and puts those owners at risk of default themselves.

    5. Student loan dischargeability as a stand-alone is something that gets a lot of buy-in, and sells well.

    6. The racial/gender disparity segment looks like it was written by a sophomore gender studies seminar at an Ivy League school – committee drawn and not reflecting reality. Local government fines aren’t a big bankruptcy issue, intentional civil rights violations are already nondischargeable, people who receive EITC and child tax credits spend that money immediately and income attributable to child support or alimony being exempt would create a giant, exploitable loophole that isn’t justifiable under the bankruptcy code in any formulation.

  126. 126.

    Soprano2

    @artem1s: I agree that the Obama administration totally fucked up their response to the housing crisis. They could have done a lot to help people, but they didn’t.

  127. 127.

    Ksmiami

    @Ruckus: I’m not saying he needs to target the bottom voters.. just the leadership because the GOP has turned into the insane clown posse of political parties..,

  128. 128.

    Brachiator

    @artem1s:

    The middle class and poor people who lost their homes and watched Obama bail out Jamie Diamond definitely voted GOPer 2010, 2012, 2014 and 2016. Not saying that’s an accurate take, but it stuck with white suburban Americans. The people who continued to pay their bills during W’s recession felt a little like rubes. It’s no wonder so many decided the country’s expert on bankruptcy was their hero.

    And what did the GOP do for them? Not a goddamn thing.

    Many of these fools ran to the Great Orange Dope not because they needed or wanted help, but because they bought into the lie that fucking over poor people and nonwhites harder would be fun.

    Trump bragged about all the rich people who were his friends, and railed against Chy-na and the fat guy in North Korea. He promised walls and tariffs and getting tough, but at the end of the day all he did was enrich himself and his buddies.

  129. 129.

    sab

    @Soprano2: Did they have many choices? Things had to go through Congress, which the Democarats controlled for two months

    ETA Mis-stated. The Democrats had a filibuster proof majority for two months. Without that they couldn’t do much.

  131. 131.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    The middle class and poor people who lost their homes and watched Obama bail out Jamie Diamond

    Jesus. This again?

  132. 132.

    Citizen Alan

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    I embarrassed myself a bit answering a question during the first LL.M. Consumer Bankruptcy Class this semester. Coming from Mississippi to New York, I did not consider for one second whether the family in the hypo presented could have possibly met the means test while making around $140k a year. Turns out they did. Happily, I was the only actual bankruptcy practitioner in the class, so other than the professor, no one else even understood the question.

  133. 133.

    Citizen Alan

    @Soprano2:

    many people would feel that it was unfair to people who already paid their debts.

    I was gobsmacked last summer when my sister, a retired teacher, announced that one of the only two political issues she cared about was opposition to student loan relief because “if I had to pay back my student loans so should everyone else!” The other issue was immigration reform, which she also opposes. She denies supporting Trump, but that might just be to keep the peace in the family after I flat-out told my mother that I would not tolerate a Trump supporter in my life.

  134. 134.

    Another Scott

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Thanks for your comments.

    It looks like that bill was introduced in the last days of the previous Congress and hasn’t been re-introduced (if I’m reading things correctly).  She has some new bill (with Cornyn) about bankruptcy venues.

    I hope you’ll submit public comments if/when the time comes.

    Thanks again.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  135. 135.

    J R in WV

    I have seen that Alex Jones, he of the Connecticut Sandy Hook murder spree was a fraud, has accused Joe Biden of using secret CIA-developed tools to control the weather. Thus creating the string of tornadoes across the south, for Democratic causes, to kill loyal Trump voters. Crazed stuff about Global Climate Change being a hoax, high CO2 being a good thing, etc.

    This guy lost a civil law suit, yet can’t bear to stop lying about Democratic folks.

    I hope something horrible happens to him, like just waking up to the horrible things he has done~!!

  136. 136.

    Geminid

    @Citizen Alan: Regarding college debt forgiveness, there are a lot of people like your sister. I’ve seen people on this forum express the same opinion. There are also a lot of people who never had the chance to go to college, not to mention those with medical debt that was not a choice. So I am glad President Biden is being cautious on this matter. I just wish the proponents of college debt cancellation would be more open about the costs and equities of what they advocate.

  137. 137.

    Another Scott

    @Soprano2: Too many political realities got in the way, and too many appointees thought that their job was to protect the banks and the lenders.

    ProPublica:

    With big banks hugely unpopular, the key opponents of cramdown were the nation’s community bankers, who argued that the law would force them to raise mortgage rates to cover the potential losses. Democratic leaders offered to exempt the politically popular smaller banks from the cramdown law, but no deal was reached.

    “When you’re dealing with something like the bankruptcy issue, where all lenders stand pretty much in the same shoes, it shouldn’t be a surprise when the smaller and larger banks find common cause,” said Steve Verdier, a lobbyist for the Independent Community Bankers Association.

    The lobbying by the community banks and credit unions proved fatal to the measure, lawmakers say. “The community banks went bonkers on this issue,” said former Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT). With their opposition, he said, “you don’t win much.”

    “It was a pitched battle to get it out of the House,” said Rep. Miller, with “all the effort coming from the Democratic leadership, not the Obama administration.”

    The measure faced stark conservative opposition. It was opposed by Republicans in Congress and earlier by the Bush administration, who argued that government interference to change mortgage contracts would reduce the security of all kinds of future contracts.

    “It undermines the foundation of the capitalist economy,” said Phillip Swagel, a Bush Treasury official. “What separates us from [Russian Prime Minister Vladimir] Putin is not retroactively changing contracts.”

    After narrowly passing the House, cramdown was defeated when 12 Democrats joined Republicans to vote against it.

    […]

    The Hope Now plan aimed to boost the number of modifications by streamlining the process for calculating the new homeowner payments. In practice, because it was voluntary, it permitted servicers to continue offering few or unaffordable modifications.

    The plan was replaced by the administration’s program after just a few months, but it proved influential. “The groundwork was already laid,” said Christine Eldarrat, an executive adviser at the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which regulates Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. “Servicers were onboard, and we knew their feelings about certain guidelines.”

    As an official Treasury Department account of its housing programs later put it, “The Obama Administration recognized the momentum in the private sector reflected in Hope Now’s efforts and sought to build upon it.” It makes no mention of cramdown as being needed to compel compliance.

    Ultimately, HAMP kept the streamlined evaluation process of the Hope Now plan but made changes that would, in theory, push servicers to make more affordable modifications. If servicers chose to participate, they would receive incentive payments, up to $4,000, for each modification, and the private investors and lenders who owned the loans would also receive subsidies. In exchange, servicers would agree to follow rules for handling homeowner applications and make deeper cuts in mortgage payments. Servicers who chose not to participate could handle delinquent homeowners however they chose.

    The program had to be voluntary, Treasury officials say, because the bailout bill did not contain the authority to compel banks to modify loans or follow any rules. A mandatory program requires congressional approval. The prospects for that were, and remain, dim, said Dodd. “Not even close.”

    “The ideal would have been both [cramdown and HAMP],” said Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), then the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee. But given the political constraints, HAMP on its own was “better than nothing.”

    “We designed elegant programs that seemed to get all the incentives right to solve the problem,” said Karen Dynan, a former senior economist at the Federal Reserve. “What we learned is that the world is a really complicated place.”

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

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