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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Person(s) of the Year

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Person(s) of the Year

by Anne Laurie|  December 14, 20217:17 am| 149 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Popular Culture, Proud to Be A Democrat, Readership Capture

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Officer Goodman and everyone who saved American democracy this year is my #personoftheyear.

(Photo Credit: @nytimes) pic.twitter.com/ZXgRqjmL0v

— Colin Allred (@ColinAllredTX) December 13, 2021

Every cop who saved my ass (and democracy) on January 6…that’s my #personoftheyear

— Rep. Eric Swalwell (@RepSwalwell) December 13, 2021

The coronavirus is not a person, but the healthcare workers and epidemiologists are certainly more qualified than Time‘s predictable-after-the-fact choice.

Or even another popcult icon who’s a real humanitarian (and one with quite a large fan base of her own)…

People > TIME pic.twitter.com/mHCHPNYt2M

— Travis Akers (@travisakers) December 13, 2021

Speaking of niche internet celebrities, a gift for the readership:

Doocy: We’ve seen an arsonist burn down a half a million dollar Christmas tree in New York City back on the streets. Does the President think that’s good governing? pic.twitter.com/6vWcZoFNdI

— Acyn (@Acyn) December 13, 2021


Looking at that yuuuuge plastic monstrosity, I can only repurpose a famous Rolling Stone quip: I didn’t know you *could* spend half a million bucks at Dollar General!

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Reader Interactions

149Comments

  1. 1.

    rikyrah

    December 14, 2021 at 7:19 am

    Good Morning Everyone ???

  2. 2.

    Baud

    December 14, 2021 at 7:20 am

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    December 14, 2021 at 7:21 am

    Anne Laurie is my person of the year.

  4. 4.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    December 14, 2021 at 7:23 am

    @rikyrah, @Baud:

    Good morning! ?

  5. 5.

    MattF

    December 14, 2021 at 7:24 am

    That exchange with Doocy is good for raising your blood pressure. Shows how to deal calmly with a troll.

  6. 6.

    Baud

    December 14, 2021 at 7:25 am

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    Good morning.

  7. 7.

    Baud

    December 14, 2021 at 7:25 am

    @MattF:

    Agree. It’s easy to get baited.

  8. 8.

    debbie

    December 14, 2021 at 7:28 am

    @MattF:

    Exactly. That tree was a half-million dollars like I’m the queen of England.

  9. 9.

    Betty

    December 14, 2021 at 7:38 am

    @MattF: The level of absurdity keeps reaching new heights. Bail decisions in NYC are under the control of the President? Not even dictators have that kind of power.

  10. 10.

    Baud

    December 14, 2021 at 7:41 am

    It’s cold this morning. I blame Biden.

  11. 11.

    Brantl

    December 14, 2021 at 7:49 am

    I think he needs to change his name to Douchie, legally, before he asks any more questions like that. But then, you’d also need to change the name of his network to Faux HorseShit, too.

  12. 12.

    PST

    December 14, 2021 at 7:49 am

    It’s going to be 60 here in Chicago tomorrow. Thank you Joe Biden.

  13. 13.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 14, 2021 at 7:58 am

    @PST: I thank the Chinese, it’s their climate change hoax responsible for all this warm December weather.

  14. 14.

    Cameron

    December 14, 2021 at 8:00 am

    Officer Goodman is far more deserving than some clown who wanted to live out his Star Trek fantasy

  15. 15.

    Geminid

    December 14, 2021 at 8:00 am

    @PST: Virginia’s getting warm weather too. It’s still dry, though. We barely got a shower when the front came through Saturday night.

  16. 16.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 14, 2021 at 8:01 am

    Bad, bad day in Belarus, as a number of activists and bloggers – including the husband of exiled former presidential candidate Svitlana Tsikhanouskaya – are sentenced to terms from 14 to 18 years in prison.

  17. 17.

    debbie

    December 14, 2021 at 8:02 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Careful, or they won’t invite you to their next party.  //

  18. 18.

    Betty Cracker

    December 14, 2021 at 8:03 am

    I generally admire Psaki for being good at her job, but she needs to stop calling on that motherfucker. Better yet, the White House should revoke the troll network’s press credentials. Now is the perfect time thanks to the context of the January 6 committee revelations yesterday about the Fox News “personalities” who texted Mark Meadows during the attack on the Capitol Building. What further evidence is needed that Fox News is a political actor? Kick their asses out of that goddamned briefing room already!

  19. 19.

    Steeplejack

    December 14, 2021 at 8:08 am

    A return to normal, somewhat. I checked out of Sighthound Hall yesterday afternoon and came back to my modest rooms in Threadkill Lane. All of my devices are back in their proper places at the command desk, I’ve got a cup of java working, and I’m subjecting myself to Morning Joe since the top of the hour. The old routine.

    My pain is greatly reduced, the swelling less so, in fact not much at all, which is slightly concerning. My surgeon didn’t tell me much ahead of time about what to expect, and I don’t have a follow-up call with him until next Monday. I believe he is on vacation now. The post-op nurse did cordially invite me to call the help line if I had any problems or questions. ? Guess I’ll take it day by day and see how it goes.

    ETA: I blame Biden for this.

  20. 20.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 14, 2021 at 8:09 am

    @debbie: They have parties? My feeling is hurt now.

  21. 21.

    Baud

    December 14, 2021 at 8:10 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    We saw how the media reacted when Biden left Afghanistan.  I think we can expect much worse if Biden kicks out Fox.  Leaving Afghanistan was worth the hit.  Not sure this is.

  22. 22.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    December 14, 2021 at 8:18 am

    @Steeplejack: That sounds like progress. And more power to you for watching MJ so the rest of us don’t have to.

  23. 23.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    December 14, 2021 at 8:20 am

    Doocy actually wrote and rehearsed that question, including the incredulous lil at the end. I wish she had said “that’s a genuinely stupid fucking question, even for clickbait. Tell your paymasters to send better trolls, because I’m never responding to your ridiculous bullshit in this room ever again.”

  24. 24.

    Cameron

    December 14, 2021 at 8:21 am

    @Betty Cracker: Maybe it’s like a fitness routine for her: how fast can you come up with an intelligent response to a moronic, bad-faith question?  Is your qi powerful enough to demolish the idiocy (or is that idiodoocy)?

  25. 25.

    Betty Cracker

    December 14, 2021 at 8:21 am

    @Baud: I think it’s totally worth it. I’m not sure how useful it is to compare the decision to withdraw from a 20-year war with the proposed move to revoke the press credentials of a propaganda network. But to continue the warfare analogy, Fox News has done more to destroy American democracy than al Qaeda ever did.

  26. 26.

    Steeplejack

    December 14, 2021 at 8:21 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Agree completely about revoking Fox’s White House press credentials, and now would be an excellent time to do it. With the departure of Chris Wallace (following Shepard Smith two years ago), the Fox apologists don’t have any more “serious” anchors to hide behind and claim that they are a legitimate “news” outfit. Bret Baier? Puh-leeze. He has been recorded numerous times spouting Fox propaganda on his “news” show. I don’t even know who else they’ve got (and don’t want to watch to find out).

    Let the other networks protest—and make explicit their reasons for defending Fox. I’d love to hear that.

  27. 27.

    The Thin Black Duke

    December 14, 2021 at 8:22 am

    @Betty Cracker: Problem is, the other news reporters would circle the wagons in support of their colleagues.

  28. 28.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    December 14, 2021 at 8:23 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I’m thinking that when Lukashenko leaves office, it will be in a box. Thing is, that box may come earlier than he plans.

  29. 29.

    debbie

    December 14, 2021 at 8:23 am

    @Steeplejack:

    If the TFG administration is being investigated, why not their co-conspirators and enablers?

  30. 30.

    Steeplejack

    December 14, 2021 at 8:24 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Excellent idea.

  31. 31.

    Geminid

    December 14, 2021 at 8:24 am

    @Baud: I don’t see much harm in Doocy’s silly questions, aside from the discredit they reflect him and his network. I would like to see Psaki set Doocy up by skipping him for two or three days, though. Then she can recognize him, and if he starts whining Psaki can patiently explain why she was taking questions from other reporters that added value to the exchange.

  32. 32.

    Baud

    December 14, 2021 at 8:25 am

    @Geminid:

    I was under the impression she calls on everyone in the room at least once.

  33. 33.

    Eolirin

    December 14, 2021 at 8:27 am

    @Steeplejack: best time to yank their press credentials is right after congress releases incontrovertible proof that a number of their staff were actively involved in Jan 6th. That way every time it gets brought up the response can be that they actively aided in an attempt to overthrow the government.

  34. 34.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    December 14, 2021 at 8:28 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Following the example of Nicolae Ceaucescu, are you thinking?

  35. 35.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    December 14, 2021 at 8:30 am

    @Steeplejack:

    He and his shitty network deserve no less. If anybody stands up to whine about it, she can say “you’re next. Tell your bosses to send me some wide-eyed, straight from high school AV club reporters who have no agenda or desire to write a book or build a CV on all their connections. I want people that ask straight questions and are legitimately inquisitive. That goes for the rest of you – you’re worthless and weak and I despise you all.”

  36. 36.

    SectionH

    December 14, 2021 at 8:32 am

    .

  37. 37.

    Betty Cracker

    December 14, 2021 at 8:32 am

    @The Thin Black Duke: I don’t think that’s necessarily the case anymore for reasons Steep articulated at #26. I remember how when Obama’s first press sec, Robert Gibbs, dissed Fox News, Jake Tapper prissily objected. Have you heard Tapper talk about Fox News lately? Dawn finally broke on Marblehead.

    @Geminid: Here’s the harm: treating Fox News like a regular news network give it an imprimatur of respectability that allows it to sell ads and make money. Fox News is a white grievance network that constantly stokes divisions and amplifies lies. Democrats should stop playing along.

  38. 38.

    Geminid

    December 14, 2021 at 8:32 am

    @Baud: Well, in that case my clever stategem would not work. Still, I wouldn’t yank Doocy’s credential’s. That might make some people feel good momentarily, but it would not diminish his network’s power one bit.

  39. 39.

    zhena gogolia

    December 14, 2021 at 8:33 am

    @Steeplejack: Swelling sometimes takes forever. I’m glad you’re home!

  40. 40.

    Steeplejack

    December 14, 2021 at 8:33 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    LOL. Okay, maybe not that far . . .

  41. 41.

    zhena gogolia

    December 14, 2021 at 8:34 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I love it!

  42. 42.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    December 14, 2021 at 8:34 am

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR:

    Ayup. And as harsh as Lukashenko’s goons are, the Securitate were light years beyond that.

  43. 43.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    December 14, 2021 at 8:34 am

    It’s a pity the rest of the WH press corps doesn’t object to Fox’s presence.

  44. 44.

    hueyplong

    December 14, 2021 at 8:35 am

    @Eolirin: I agree with the idea of waiting for an outrageous revelation that can be pointed to (and thereby reinforced) each time Psaki fields a question about why FoxNews has been banned/skipped over/whatever.

    Ingraham, et al., whining that Trump’s inaction is hurting the cause isn’t the thing to point to.  There’s worse waiting to be revealed.

  45. 45.

    Steeplejack

    December 14, 2021 at 8:36 am

    @Geminid:

    “I don’t see much harm in Doocy’s silly questions.”

    Maybe because you don’t see the resulting clips on Fox after they have been sliced and diced to support their agenda (and to show Doocy pwning stupid Jen Psaki, hur-hur).

  46. 46.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    December 14, 2021 at 8:37 am

    Yesterday, a neighbor told me about telling her granddaughter that women who lived in her college dorm got married quickly because that would exempt their husbands from the draft (which I guess it did, early on). Anyway, the granddaughter said, “What’s the draft?”

  47. 47.

    trnc

    December 14, 2021 at 8:37 am

    @Betty Cracker: I generally admire Psaki for being good at her job, but she needs to stop calling on that motherfucker. Better yet, the White House should revoke the troll network’s press credentials. Now is the perfect time thanks to the context of the January 6 committee revelations yesterday about the Fox News “personalities” who texted Mark Meadows during the attack on the Capitol Building.

    Yes to all of this.

  48. 48.

    hueyplong

    December 14, 2021 at 8:38 am

    Anyone think MTG, Gozar, Gaetz, Jordan, Boebert, Cruz, Hawley and others had their colons tighten a bit last night?

    It will be interesting to see which ones get very quiet and which ones go all in on shrieking.

  49. 49.

    trnc

    December 14, 2021 at 8:39 am

    @The Thin Black Duke: Problem is, the other news reporters would circle the wagons in support of their colleagues.

    How would you be able to tell the difference compared to what they do now?

  50. 50.

    Steeplejack

    December 14, 2021 at 8:40 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    Thanks. The pain lessening is a very big deal; the swelling is more of an inconvenience. I still feel very tired, which is going to be my excuse for sleeping at any and all hours.

  51. 51.

    Soprano2

    December 14, 2021 at 8:47 am

    Elon Musk as Time’s Person of the Year is a decision you get when everyone in the room is dazzled and amazed by tech, as if it’s a new toy, and thinks tech bros are the smartest people in the world. Again, a bad decision made because everyone in the room (or almost everyone) comes at the decision from the same point of view.

  52. 52.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 14, 2021 at 8:48 am

    I’m with Geminid here. Banning FOX news will do very little to no good whatsoever and would in fact set a very bad precedent. That is the sort of thing autocrats like Putin, Erdogan, and Xi do.

  53. 53.

    MattF

    December 14, 2021 at 8:50 am

    Doocy’s questions at the WH are pretty much the only direct regular contact between Foxworld and the Biden team. It’s a farce, but both sides know that. Foxworld gets to display their big boy status and Biden gets to display Fox’s bad faith. I think it’s pretty much a draw. At least Doocy has to wear a mask.

  54. 54.

    Betty Cracker

    December 14, 2021 at 8:53 am

    @hueyplong: If there’s worse (that directly implicates Fox News) waiting to be revealed, the White House likely knows that, and perhaps you’re right that yanking Fox News’s credentials should happen then. But IMO, there’s plenty extant to justify kicking the fuckers out right now, including Ingraham’s whining about Trump “hurting all of us,” which leaves no daylight between the administration and the network.

    Maybe we’ve become inured to it through decades-long exposure, but it would be a giant scandal if any other network that is currently — and incorrectly — classified as a peer of Fox News was busted coordinating messaging with a Democratic president like that. Hell, MSNBC bounced Jon Meacham when The Times revealed he’d written a Biden speech.

  55. 55.

    Geminid

    December 14, 2021 at 8:54 am

    @Betty Cracker: That is a good argument in the abstract, but I see no material effect from what you propose. The white grievance network would just have one more white grievance. Yanking their White House credentials would not dimish their audience, and they will have advertisers as long as they have an audience. A concerted effort to cut their bundled cable TV reach might be fruitful, but I’m not sure how their lack of a reporter at White House press briefings would tip the balance there.

    But I’m just speculating. We would know more if the White House actually banned Fox reporters from the pressroom. But I don’t think that will happen no matter how much people might wish it.

  56. 56.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    December 14, 2021 at 8:55 am

    @Soprano2: Musk’s problem – well, one of many at any rate – is that he seems to be enraptured by the Rule of Cool. Look at the way he’s evolving the Tesla – self-driving cars with yokes for steering wheels and everything controlled from a touch-screen panel with no useful driving instrumentation? It’s like he’s decided to bring Knight Rider to life without wondering why all those cool Hollywood tech things haven’t been adapted to real life. (Steering wheel yokes, for crissakes. Yokes have been used on airplanes for a hundred years, and there are several good reasons why they never got adapted to automobiles.)

  57. 57.

    Betty Cracker

    December 14, 2021 at 8:57 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: You okay with credentialling Alex Jones then? Is there any line at all, or must all bad-faith disinformation merchants be welcomed or else you’re an autocrat?

  58. 58.

    Ken

    December 14, 2021 at 9:05 am

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR: I’d guess one of the reasons we don’t have yokes in cars is that the gearing (back when gears were involved) required full rotations of the wheel to turn the tires, and we’ve kept that ratio since. If Musk (well, his engineers) are changing that, I predict a number of accidents as people’s driving reflexes over-steer with the yoke.

  59. 59.

    oatler

    December 14, 2021 at 9:07 am

    Strip Doocy to his underwear, put him in a cage in the corner of the room, just like SNL’s Sean Spicer did with the CNN reporter.

  60. 60.

    Elizabelle

    December 14, 2021 at 9:08 am

    I’m good with banning Fox News and OAN and whatever other bottom feeders show up.

    White House press credentials should go to professional journalists, not to for-profit propaganda networks staffed by professional liars.

    Maybe it would be a great idea to replace the actual fake news purveyors with a rotating round of high school and college journalists.  You’d get more serious and responsible questions.

    Fox, etc. are actively damaging our democracy, and doing it for money and for a very small group of plutocrats’ motives.  Enough.

    Shit like that should not be hiding behind the First Amendment.  And certainly does not deserve White House press credentials.   Deplatform them, at least in the press room and on the aircraft.

  61. 61.

    Spanky

    December 14, 2021 at 9:08 am

    @Geminid: Given your nym, I’m sure you went out last night for the shower. How was it? Up here we had high cirrus after moonset, so I stayed inside and warm.

  62. 62.

    Geminid

    December 14, 2021 at 9:11 am

    @Spanky: I missed them! There was a bright moon the last time I was outside. Maybe tonight I’ll get out around 4:30am and catch the remainder. The moon will have set by then, and there is little ambient light where I live.

  63. 63.

    Betty Cracker

    December 14, 2021 at 9:14 am

    @Geminid: If the White House denounced Fox News as a partisan propaganda network and kicked them out of the briefing room AND elected Democrats stopped going on Fox News, that would make ad buyers skittish, and the network would lose money. It’s happened on individual shows on Fox News lots of times. IIRC, that’s why they finally bounced whiteboard-phase Glenn Beck.

    It probably wouldn’t hurt Fox News with viewers, at least not at first. But there’s a chicken-egg conundrum here. It’s understandable if mostly non-political, low-info voters believe Fox News is a respectable network rather than a right-wing propaganda outfit. After all, both political parties act like Fox News is a real news network.

    Fox News feeds existing grievances, obviously, but maybe it also lures gullible people with flashy graphics and attractive, interchangeable presenters who confirm their vague biases, etc., and the network radicalizes them with a steady diet of divisive lies. I’ve seen it with my own elders. It turned my sweet old church lady grandma into a rage-addict. It’s insidious.

  64. 64.

    The Oracle of Solace

    December 14, 2021 at 9:18 am

    @Elizabelle:

    Maybe it would be a great idea to replace the actual fake news purveyors with a rotating round of high school and college journalists.  You’d get more serious and responsible questions.

    I’m willing to give it a try! Dog knows the professional political journalists are acting like a bunch of cliquish high school students and college frat boys. Bringing in actual high schoolers & college students would do no harm and could be an improvement.

  65. 65.

    MattF

    December 14, 2021 at 9:20 am

    @Betty Cracker: One shouldn’t underestimate Fox’s bond with their viewers. They’re clever. A lonely old person will want a friend— it’s no accident that the Fox morning show is called ‘Fox and Friends.’

  66. 66.

    hueyplong

    December 14, 2021 at 9:23 am

    @Betty Cracker: Don’t get me wrong, I share your disgust with the daily act of pretending that bad faith propaganda mongering isn’t bad faith propaganda mongering, but last night felt a little like a pivot after which we’ll see the kind of things that make the case a whole lot more clearly than watching that clown be a clown.

    The Jan 6 commission is acting like a boa constrictor and that fact seems to be dawning on one and all.  Let them give another squeeze or two.

  67. 67.

    Geminid

    December 14, 2021 at 9:24 am

    @Betty Cracker: Fox News certainly does a lot of damage to their audience. The audience skews skews old, so Fox probably already is not getting top rates for their ads.

    A question I would pose is, if banning Fox from White House briefings has such obvious merit, why isn’t it done? Psaki and her colleagues certainly are not all-wise, but they seem as practical and hardheaded as anyone here.

    Oh well, just another question to ask Ron Klain when he finally gets around to calling me.

  68. 68.

    rikyrah

    December 14, 2021 at 9:31 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

     

    see Dick Cheney

  69. 69.

    rikyrah

    December 14, 2021 at 9:32 am

    Give Fox their credentials..

    But, only call on them once a MONTH.

    Phuck this daily back and forth with that imbecile.

  70. 70.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    December 14, 2021 at 9:34 am

    @rikyrah: I thought of him after I posted. (And btw, “Vice” is a great reminder of Cheney and the damage he did) I was startled by the granddaughter having no idea of what a draft was. What a rude shock its return would be.

  71. 71.

    numfar

    December 14, 2021 at 9:35 am

    What’s Fox’s main source of revenue…ads or cable subscriptions?

  72. 72.

    Steeplejack

    December 14, 2021 at 9:44 am

    @numfar:

    I believe Fox gets more revenue from cable subscriptions than from advertising.

    I saw a great niblet on Twitter last week that said Rupert Murdoch can afford to run Fox as a loss leader, because the real payoff is a passive, propagandized audience of zombies who hate Democrats (and all that they do) and won’t object to—will in fact support—the rapacious policies of the GQP. Or anything else that Murdoch cares to point them at.

  73. 73.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 14, 2021 at 9:46 am

    @Betty Cracker: I’m OK with FOX news asking questions we don’t like. Doesn’t bother me in the least to watch Psaki pants Doocy day after day after day. I only wish she was even harsher on the doofus.

    The 1st Amendment is supposed to guarantee a free press. Kicking news organizations out for any reason other than actual criminal behavior isn’t really in line with with that idea.

  74. 74.

    Cameron

    December 14, 2021 at 9:49 am

    It’s time to give it up for the real “person of the year,” the People’s Champion, Joe Manchin.  America’s Hero spoke wank to power yesterday when he called on the President and advised that he could not support – even in its current castrated condition – Build Back Better.  Absolutely could not, due to deep-seated (and constantly changing) concerns about inflation, deficits, WTF ever.  If we cannot honor a true patriot with a Person of the Year award, the very least we can do is award him a Golden Cluster of Collins’ Furrowed Brows, with inflatable Rand Paul Pendant.

  75. 75.

    numfar

    December 14, 2021 at 9:51 am

    @Steeplejack: That’s what I thought.  All the ad buyers could dry up and blow away and Fox could keep on doing the stupid shit they do.

  76. 76.

    CaseyL

    December 14, 2021 at 9:51 am

    @numfar: I think it’s cable subscriptions – every cable TV subscription has to pay a fee to Fox, whether the viewer wants to or not, whether they watch Fox or not. Fox is included in all cable packages, even the most basic.  (That’s one of many reasons I cut the cord and went to an Internet-only provider.)

  77. 77.

    jeffreyw

    December 14, 2021 at 10:10 am

    @Betty Cracker: Start calling Fox ‘TV Rwanda’

  78. 78.

    Betty Cracker

    December 14, 2021 at 10:12 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Not every outfit that calls itself a “news network” gets White House press credentials. I’m pretty sure there are standards that go beyond “actual criminal behavior.” Again, Alex Jones also asks “questions we don’t like” and calls himself a journalist. Should he be eligible for White House press credentials or nah? If not, why not?

  79. 79.

    Ghost of Joe Liebling*s Dog

    December 14, 2021 at 10:23 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    It’s a pity the rest of the WH press corps doesn’t object to Fox’s presence.

    Recall “Jeff Gannon“. The WH press corps accepted him as One Of Their Own for about two years, no questions asked.

    I don’t know if they’ve learned much since then; it doesn’t look that way in daylight unless I take my glasses off and squint.

  80. 80.

    rikyrah

    December 14, 2021 at 10:32 am

    @hueyplong:

    Anyone think MTG, Gozar, Gaetz, Jordan, Boebert, Cruz, Hawley and others had their colons tighten a bit last night?

     

    Time for who got the Power Point to be revealed

  81. 81.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 14, 2021 at 10:32 am

    @Betty Cracker: Again, Alex Jones also asks “questions we don’t like” and calls himself a journalist. Should he be eligible for White House press credentials or nah? If not, why not?

    Why are you so intent on changing the subject? Alex Jones is not the issue here and giving him a chair in the press room is not on the table.

    We’re talking about Fox news. I don’t know by what standards news organizations are granted a seat in the press room and it’s beside the point as far as I am concerned because Fox is already in there. It has already been decided that they deserve a chair, and that they should be able to ask questions from time to time. Removing them should only be done for cause.

    What have they done that is so egregious they should be removed? Asking stupid questions? Most of the reporters in that room have been guilty of that. Editing footage to put their reporter/s in the best possible light? I doubt very much there is a TV news organization that hasn’t done that.

    I brought up criminal behavior only because it is a clear and succinct measuring stick. I suspect Jen P and crew have standards of behavior that they hold the reporters to that are short of criminal acts but I am not privy to them.

    Whatever those standards are, I’m pretty sure, “pissing me off” is not among them.

  82. 82.

    Princess

    December 14, 2021 at 10:36 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    “Kicking news organizations out for any reason other than actual criminal behavior isn’t really in line with with that idea.”

    I agree completely. The question is, what makes something a news organization? Last night FOX News — not Ingraham, Hannity etc, but the shows that purport to be about reporting the most important things that have happened — evidently did not report on the story that many of the personalities employed by the network were begging Trump to call off his insurrection on Jan. 6th. My understanding is they were completely silent about what was definitely the biggest political story yesterday. At what point does even their news arm cease to be news, and begins to be merely “entertainment”? Maybe with the resignation of Wallace.

    I’m not claiming to have the answer to this, but that was the thing that, for the first time, made me think that maybe they should no longer be considered in any sense a news organization.

  83. 83.

    Another Scott

    December 14, 2021 at 10:39 am

    Yet another reminder that one should not trust Twitter. You as a user mean nothing to them.

    This is insane, @meghanncuniff had her account hacked by some weirdo who changed the phone number and email address and locked her out, and @TwitterSupport can't help? This is someone's livelihood — it can't be this hard to sort out. https://t.co/L1slxrpaPC

    — Louis Keene (@thislouis) December 14, 2021

    Grr…

    (via Popehat)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  84. 84.

    Jeffro

    December 14, 2021 at 10:44 am

    @Betty Cracker: Now is the perfect time thanks to the context of the January 6 committee revelations yesterday about the Fox News “personalities” who texted Mark Meadows during the attack on the Capitol Building.

    YES

    And if Dems (Biden most especially) don’t promote the Faux hosts’ two-faced lying to their audiences later that same evening for at least a couple of weeks, they’re missing a great opportunity to cause screaming, agonizing cognitive dissonance to millions on the right.

  85. 85.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 14, 2021 at 10:46 am

    @Princess: Every news organization in the world has to make decisions about what to cover. I choose what news organizations I follow based partly at least on those decisions. I don’t watch FOX news.

    Somewhere in the White House hierarchy there is a poor soul, probably more than one, tasked with that specific duty. Whoever they are, they aren’t paid enough.

  86. 86.

    Jeffro

    December 14, 2021 at 10:49 am

    @Elizabelle:

    I’m good with banning Fox News and OAN and whatever other bottom feeders show up.  White House press credentials should go to professional journalists, not to for-profit propaganda networks staffed by professional liars.  Deplatform them, at least in the press room and on the aircraft.

    Totally agree with all of this.  Restore some sense of standards and deprive them of any veneer of legitimacy.

    And this

    Maybe it would be a great idea to replace the actual fake news purveyors with a rotating round of high school and college journalists.  You’d get more serious and responsible questions.

    would be completely, awesomely, excellent.  ‘Zoom’ in some local reporters from around the country (including college campuses)!  Show the yoots that their voices and questions count!

  87. 87.

    hueyplong

    December 14, 2021 at 10:49 am

    Donald Trump Jr’s twitter account hasn’t had a new post since Sunday.

    I can’t think of a bad reason for that.

  88. 88.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 14, 2021 at 10:51 am

    @hueyplong: Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.

  89. 89.

    hueyplong

    December 14, 2021 at 10:52 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Each speculated reason why is delectable.

    I like to think DJT Sr killed him.  It’s the romantic in me.

  90. 90.

    Another Scott

    December 14, 2021 at 11:00 am

    @Betty Cracker: It looks like there are around 50 reporters in the press briefing room.  IIRC, they all get called on every day.

    FN is a cancer, but …

    CJR.org (from May 2019):

    IN WHAT APPEARS TO BE an unprecedented move, the White House revoked the press passes of a significant chunk of the Washington press corps because they didn’t meet a new standard, according to Washington Post columnist Dana Milbank. Under the new rules, rolled out earlier this year, in order to qualify for the highest level of access—known as a “hard pass”—journalists had to be present in the White House for at least 90 days out of a 180-day period. According to Milbank, virtually the entire press corps failed to meet this new test, including all six of the Post’s White House correspondents. Media outlets then had to apply for exceptions to cover their senior journalists, or settle for six-month passes, which don’t allow as much access.

    The Post applied for and was granted exceptions for its White House correspondents, Milbank says, but he was not given one. “I strongly suspect it’s because I’m a Trump critic,” he wrote on Wednesday. “The move is perfectly in line with Trump’s banning of certain news organizations, including The Post, from his campaign events and his threats to revoke White House credentials of journalists he doesn’t like.” Milbank noted that, since dozens of senior correspondents didn’t meet the new standards either, “they all serve at the pleasure of Press Secretary Sarah Sanders” and “therefore, in theory, can have their credentials revoked any time they annoy Trump or his aides.” (The White House press secretary told the Post the move was a result of security concerns, not a desire to crack down on specific journalists.)

    Biden’s right not to go down that road.

    Psaki handles him well. He gets 2% of the time and that’s plenty.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  91. 91.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 14, 2021 at 11:09 am

    Fox News viewership is, according to my quick google, in the low seven digits. I see estimates of 2.5M, let’s double that for virality. I find the idea that some righteous pose struck by the White House will have some dramatic effect unconvincing.

    Here’s CNN– which in my mind is the USAToday of cable networks, made for hotel lobbies and waiting rooms– telling people that Fox News hosts are liars. “Fox hosts exposed in texts for selling their audience lies”

    Speaking of USAToday, they ran an oped yesterday calling on the Senate to do a filibuster carve-out for votings rights. Does anyone think Manchin or Sinema even noticed?

  92. 92.

    UncleEbeneezer

    December 14, 2021 at 11:10 am

    DC Attorney General Karl A. Racine:  Today at noon I’ll be holding a press conference to make a major announcement about the January 6th insurrection. Watch live on Twitter or Facebook.

  93. 93.

    Captain C

    December 14, 2021 at 11:12 am

    @Steeplejack:

    Let the other networks protest—and make explicit their reasons for defending Fox. I’d love to hear that.

    NY Times:  After single-handedly destroying a pristine Afghanistan all by himself, Biden now bans the one news organization more honest, important, and accurate than ourselves.

  94. 94.

    Captain C

    December 14, 2021 at 11:13 am

    @Captain C:

    important

    *self-important, actually, but…

  95. 95.

    Betty Cracker

    December 14, 2021 at 11:14 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    What have they done that is so egregious they should be removed?

    Are you fucking kidding me? You keep framing the objection to Fox News in terms of “pissing me off” or “questions we don’t like,” as if it’s an objection to tough questions like “is burning a $500K Christmas tree good governance.” That’s a red herring, IMO. Of course legit news networks will ask dumb questions, and that has to be tolerated. The point is, Fox News isn’t a legit news network.

    One reason I asked you about Jones is because I was trying to figure out how you define a “news organization” since you brought up 1A press protections. But IMO, 1A protection in this context is also a red herring because no one is arguing that Fox News should be shut down.

    My point is Democrats should stop treating Fox News as if it’s equivalent to ABC or CBS or NBC or CNN or the NYT or WaPo, which are flawed organizations but not full-fledged propaganda outfits and direct political actors. I was trying to see if you had a red line for excluding outfits that claim to be news networks from the briefing room, and now you’ve (sort of) drawn one: “Fox is already in there.”

    I don’t think it’s a good line, but okay. I’d ask a follow-up question to explore your limits for tolerating behavior from briefing room incumbents, but I suspect you’d accuse me of changing the subject again, so never mind that. The real question is whether Psaki specifically and Democrats in general should continue to pretend Fox News is a real news organization when it’s working 24/7 to undermine democracy — to the point that even people like Jonah Goldberg are heading for the exits. I say no.

  96. 96.

    zhena gogolia

    December 14, 2021 at 11:20 am

    @Captain C: I know, right? The end of Sebastian Junger’s piece in Vanity Fair accords equal blame to Biden along with GWB, DJT, and Obama.

  97. 97.

    germy

    December 14, 2021 at 11:23 am

    Tish James is up next, live on The View.

    She may have some things to say about the former guy.

  98. 98.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 14, 2021 at 11:28 am

    @zhena gogolia: that’s disappointing. I mostly know Junger as a name, though I’m sure I’ve read something by him over these long years, if not any of his books (googling to double-check, I see he wrote The Perfect Storm). The emotional investment so many big name journalists (using that word in a very broad context) have in Afghanistan is baffling to me. I don’t remember this kind of outrage when trump invited the Taliban, who are after all the villains who would be weeping helplessly in a cave somewhere if it weren’t for Biden, to Camp David.

  99. 99.

    Chief Oshkosh

    December 14, 2021 at 11:28 am

    @Eolirin:

    That way every time it gets brought up the response can be that they actively aided in an attempt to overthrow the government…

    …that resulted in the death of at least one police officer, serious injuries to other officers, and significant property damage.

    That’s what the rightwing fucktards claim they care about: blue lives and property. So give it to them and give it to them good.

    Oh, and it made the Baby Jesus cry.

  100. 100.

    zhena gogolia

    December 14, 2021 at 11:32 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: The cover line is “The War We Should Have Won.”

  101. 101.

    burnspbesq

    December 14, 2021 at 11:36 am

    @Soprano2:

    I have no shortage of issues with Elon and his companies, but by the criteria Time has used for a very long time—the criteria that allowed them to choose Hitler sometime in the 1930s—he’s not a completely off-the-wall choice.

  102. 102.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 14, 2021 at 11:38 am

    @zhena gogolia: Vanity Fair is a good description of our Beltway media entertainment complex.

  103. 103.

    Irishweaver

    December 14, 2021 at 11:39 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Thank you for mentioning the fact that the Fox network personalities were communicating with Mark Meadows.   It is noteworthy in a very bad way that TV personalities are advising the President’s Chief of Staff! .

  104. 104.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 14, 2021 at 11:40 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: They never covered the Tangerine Tyrant’s jihad against immigrants with half as much empathy or gusto like they have covered Afghanistan. They hate Biden and the Democrats far more than they love the Afghans.

  105. 105.

    Gravenstone

    December 14, 2021 at 11:42 am

    @Irishweaver: Shit, several of them (notably Hannity) regularly “advised” Trump directly. That’s what I find most curious about these texts – was Meadows the second avenue after Trump failed to respond to direct appeals from one of more parties involved?

  106. 106.

    zhena gogolia

    December 14, 2021 at 11:49 am

    @Gravenstone: As someone noted last night, it’s standard mob boss behavior. You don’t communicate directly with the mob boss so he stays clean. You have to communicate through his flunky, who takes the rap.

    ETA: Michael Cohen described it all lucidly to some congressional committee.

  107. 107.

    prostratedragon

    December 14, 2021 at 11:54 am

    Cover from The Warriors soundtrack: “Nowhere to Run”

  108. 108.

    Baud

    December 14, 2021 at 11:56 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    Wouldn’t want to appear biased by accurately reporting reality.

  109. 109.

    Brachiator

    December 14, 2021 at 12:00 pm

    Elon Musk as Time’s Person of the Year is a decision you get when everyone in the room is dazzled and amazed by tech, as if it’s a new toy, and thinks tech bros are the smartest people in the world.

    Time Magazine still exists?

    There was a time when I subscribed to both Time and Newsweek, and occasionally bought copies of US News and World Report. But that was in an earlier century. The 1900s. I cannot even remember the last time I visited their web site. And since the pandemic, I don’t go out as much anymore, and do not often go past the few remaining newsstands that have physical copies of the magazine.

    I realize that I have absolutely no use for a news weekly or news monthly.  My mind does not even think in those terms anymore. I guess I have adapted to the Internet. So, Time is just a brand name, moldy and obsolete, along with Life, Look, The Saturday Evening Post, Reader’s Digest.

    Otherwise, I don’t have much problem with Musk being the selection, although many others could have been. I also see that the vaccine scientists were the Heroes of the Year. Probably would have been my choice for Person of the Year.

  110. 110.

    germy

    December 14, 2021 at 12:08 pm

    BREAKING: I’m suing the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers, the first civil lawsuit by a government entity against the Jan. 6 insurrectionists. They caused extensive damage to the District, our democracy and particularly the brave men and women of our Metropolitan Police Department.— AG Karl A. Racine (@AGKarlRacine) December 14, 2021

  111. 111.

    Spanky

    December 14, 2021 at 12:09 pm

    FWIW, the DC Attorney General announced that he’s suing Proud Boys and Oaf Keepers over the Jan 6 attacks. Dunno what impact that’ll have on the MAGA insurrectionists generally.

  112. 112.

    germy

    December 14, 2021 at 12:16 pm

    Jake Sherman comes clean:

    "guess people know now how serious the situation was, despite my efforts to conceal it. Well, I tried!" pic.twitter.com/2i8arahQ9A— Roy Edroso (@edroso) December 14, 2021

  113. 113.

    Brantl

    December 14, 2021 at 12:22 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Yeah, does the National Enquirer get press credentials?

  114. 114.

    Baud

    December 14, 2021 at 12:24 pm

    @germy:

    Totally not newsworthy to report on that.

  115. 115.

    West of the Rockies

    December 14, 2021 at 12:30 pm

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Exactly this.  “Does the president think that’s good governing?”

    Peter, do you really think you’re intelligent and clever?

  116. 116.

    Geminid

    December 14, 2021 at 12:31 pm

    @germy: Those Meadows texts have got a lot of people scared. Meadows was a little late in deciding to stonewall the January 6 Committee. A lot of horses got out of the barn before he slammed the door. Now he’s pissed everybody off.

  117. 117.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 14, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    @PST:

    It’s going to be 60 here in Chicago tomorrow. Thank you Joe Biden. 

    Ugh.

  118. 118.

    Captain C

    December 14, 2021 at 12:37 pm

    @zhena gogolia: It’s like they don’t even want to know that there’s more to know about the issue (and who really screwed things up on our end).  If it weren’t for the fact that lots of Afghans would suffer, I’d love to see what one of these yahoos would do if actually put in charge there.  I’m guessing they’d last about 5 minutes and nope out, or try to genocide their way out of the problem without calling it that (and then blaming someone else, probably a Democrat, for their horrible fuckups, probably while demanding to be rewarded and acclaimed for said fuckups at the same time).

  119. 119.

    Chief Oshkosh

    December 14, 2021 at 12:57 pm

    @Captain C: What you described is what happened. A 100% Republican fuck-up that killed hundreds of thousands of people, all being blamed on a Democrat.

    And that’s where we’re heading with Covid. Estimates of 40-90% of deaths in the US are attributable to the Republicans’ fucked up response. Hell, there’s an argument to be made that a significant portion of deaths worldwide have happened because Trump couldn’t just let the professionals handle the initial response.

  120. 120.

    L85NJGT

    December 14, 2021 at 1:00 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Person of the Year is as culturally relevant as Playmate of the Year. Squeezing out whatever brand value is left with clickbait for old farts.

  121. 121.

    hueyplong

    December 14, 2021 at 1:04 pm

    Prime Asshole and Jan 6 weapons/ammo carrier Cleveland Meredith sentenced to 28 months in prison (11 have already been served).  Wish it had been even longer.

  122. 122.

    Ruckus

    December 14, 2021 at 1:19 pm

    I didn’t know you *could* spend half a million bucks at Dollar General!

    Not even in a lifetime. And it seems far more likely one wouldn’t want to even if they could…..

  123. 123.

    The Lodger

    December 14, 2021 at 1:20 pm

    @debbie: Who appraised that tree? Someone recommended by Trump?

  124. 124.

    germy

    December 14, 2021 at 1:22 pm

    I’ve been thinking about this all day long. If my Christmas tree is $500,000, it is a five story tall marijuana plant. https://t.co/GqKQHFyo1K

    — Xeni (@xeni) December 14, 2021

  125. 125.

    Miss Bianca

    December 14, 2021 at 1:28 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I protest! “Vanity Fair” is an obscure reference! I mean, who the hell reads Pilgrim’s Progress anymore, anyways?//

    (well, ok, it’s been on my To-Read list for ages, but I still haven’t actually read it.)

  126. 126.

    q

    December 14, 2021 at 1:30 pm

    @Steeplejack: Actually, I blame Obama for all of my pains and misfortunes.  Maybe I should update my software.

  127. 127.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 14, 2021 at 1:32 pm

    @Miss Bianca: But everyone reads Thackeray.

  128. 128.

    Jinchi

    December 14, 2021 at 1:32 pm

    @The Lodger: Who appraised that tree? Someone recommended by Trump?

    It wasn’t even a tree. It was a cone shaped scaffold with branches overlaid on it.

  129. 129.

    Baud

    December 14, 2021 at 1:37 pm

    @germy:

    coughInsuranceFraudcough

  130. 130.

    Jinchi

    December 14, 2021 at 1:38 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I generally admire Psaki for being good at her job, but she needs to stop calling on that motherfucker.

    I’ve been thinking the same, I assume we’re just seeing cherry picking of clips.

    Does she regularly call on all reporters (and we only see the clips of Doocey being an idiot)? Or does he really get called on more than most?

  131. 131.

    West of the Rockies

    December 14, 2021 at 1:39 pm

    @hueyplong:

    Cue prop plane engine thrumming on the foggy night tarmac…

  132. 132.

    M31

    December 14, 2021 at 1:44 pm

    @Jinchi: It was a cone shaped scaffold with branches overlaid on it.

    lift up the branches and it still says “Hang Mike Pence”

  133. 133.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 14, 2021 at 1:47 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: There were Republicans grandstanding about how Biden had shafted the Afghans while moving to keep Afghan refugees out of their state. It was amazingly shameless.

  134. 134.

    debbie

    December 14, 2021 at 1:49 pm

    @rikyrah:

    And sit them in the back row.

  135. 135.

    debbie

    December 14, 2021 at 1:54 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yes, I’m disappointed in his both-sidsing. He embedded in some remote outpost in Afghanistan and reported from there during a period of fierce fighting. I always thought he was a great writer and would hate to know he’s gone mainstream milktoast.

  136. 136.

    matt

    December 14, 2021 at 1:55 pm

    ‘is whining about a stupid christmas tree burned down by a hobo good reporting?’

  137. 137.

    matt

    December 14, 2021 at 1:56 pm

    @Jinchi: I read somewhere she calls everyone. Doocy just gets a lot of these clips because he has a big team writing up pissy questions and she answers them.

  138. 138.

    Layer8Problem

    December 14, 2021 at 1:57 pm

    @Miss Bianca: I mean, who the hell reads Pilgrim’s Progress anymore, anyways?

    Hey! I read it! Spoilers alert: not enough explosions or fanservice.

  139. 139.

    debbie

    December 14, 2021 at 1:59 pm

    @Geminid:

    Is there any chance the committee will do to MTG, Boebert, Hawley, etc. what they did to Meadows yesterday?

  140. 140.

    Ruckus

    December 14, 2021 at 2:00 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    OTOH, while his supporters will likely never get it, she gets to make fun of faux on a daily basis. His questions are intellectually beneath a level that a first grader might ask while trying to be a smart ass, and she proves it each time she calls on him.

    The weather channel says drizzle here but the rain just coming down was about as hard as I’ve ever seen anywhere. At least this is not as continuous as the storm in January 1969 was, when people were discussing building an ark, and were serious.

  141. 141.

    debbie

    December 14, 2021 at 2:01 pm

    In  a lighter vein:

    “I SWEAR I DON’T KNOW WHERE THEY KEEP THE TREATS, PLEASE, I HAVE A FAMILY” pic.twitter.com/hFWWhEhwsC
    — Paul Bronks for Lovina Animal Welfare (@slender_sherbet) December 13, 2021

  142. 142.

    The Lodger

    December 14, 2021 at 2:02 pm

    @Another Scott: Psaki should keep calling on Doocy every day.

    Does the phrase “Daily dose of comic relief” work?

  143. 143.

    Geminid

    December 14, 2021 at 2:14 pm

    @debbie: I dont think those crazy Representatives have been subpoenaed. My theory is that staffers were the most closely involved with the insurrection. But there is no news on that as far as I know.

    The January 6 Committee hearings will be good. Liz Cheney looks like she is out for blood, and I think she’s not the only one.

  144. 144.

    Captain C

    December 14, 2021 at 2:14 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: “Nobody’s allowed to abuse Afghans except us!”  — some Republicans and news media types

  145. 145.

    germy

    December 14, 2021 at 2:25 pm

    https://wnyt.com/politics/cuomo-ordered-to-return-book-deal-earnings-joint-commission-on-public-ethics-jcope/6332435/?cat=10114

    New York’s state ethics panel has ordered former Gov. Cuomo to return more than $5 million he made off his book about pandemic leadership.

  146. 146.

    Dan B

    December 14, 2021 at 2:39 pm

    @Ken: Juse watched a Sandy Munro program on the Tesla Plaid, the one with the yoke steering.  My partner is a gear head / car nut.  The steering was a bit touchy.  It was easy to oversteer a bit.  They felt it would be an issue at high speed and Tesla should compensate. Otherwise they liked the yoke.

  147. 147.

    Ruckus

    December 14, 2021 at 2:46 pm

    No matter how crappy some journalists are, they work for someone else. Now if I was a journalist of say Doocy’s level, I’d bet that I’d have to work for faux news or find another line of work. Because I really don’t have that skill. What I’m saying is that Doocy doesn’t either. (And yes I think I could be better than him, as could a large segment of humans.) But the above leads to another point, all of the reporters in that room work for a news organization, represent that organization, and may or may not actually see things the same as the owner/head of that news organization. But they get paid to present the news as seen/believed by the owner. They tell us what the owner wants us to hear. Decades ago we saw/heard a more condensed view of daily events because we had what 2 or 3 hrs of news. Now it’s a very competitive entity on 24 hr news showS, on their own channels, on TV, radio, the web. All with it’s own slant that mirrors the owners slant on the world, because that’s who pays those reporters/presenters for it. Doocy may or may not be an idiot, but he does what he does because that’s what he gets paid for, and likely paid well. His personal politics may or may not agree with the owner of the business he gets paid by.

    On the point of removing faux news from the WH, does anyone think that will change faux news? Other than making them worse? We have the concept of free speech here. That means one is free to be as big an ass vocally or in print as they desire. There are some limits of course, yelling fire in a public space when that isn’t true to cause panic for example, but the reality is that Doocy should have the right to make an ass out of himself, it is part of the cost of free speech. And yes I see the humor of joining an organization that is supposed to protect that right, the US military, which by doing so, one gives up that right, or at least raises the cost far higher. This country is paradox, in that in theory we are have the most freedom in the world because of the type of our government and because we have a political party that does not seem to understand anything about what a democracy actually is and what it actually costs. There are limits to every human on this planet, if the concept is that we all have the rights we are told we do, because everyone else has them as well. We have to come to an understanding of what a democracy really is and live that. And it isn’t restricting speech just because it’s ignorant and stupid. It’s a line but it is a line that has  to have a lot of room on both sides or it doesn’t work.

  148. 148.

    Betty Cracker

    December 14, 2021 at 3:25 pm

    @Ruckus: So are you saying there’s really no such thing as a news organization and that all of the network divisions / channels that call themselves that — MSNBC, CNN, Fox News, CBS News, etc. — are all just organizations that corruptly represent the view of their owners, and there’s essentially no difference between them? That’s a steaming load of horse shit.

    Also, the free speech argument is a big fat red herring, essentially no different from the wingnut screeching about cancel culture. No one is suggesting that Fox News be shut down. Or at least I’m not. I’m saying the political party that Fox News was conjured into existence to sandbag and destroy should stop pretending that Fox News is a legitimate actor. They are not.

    And to the folks arguing that it’s okay to keep pretending people like Doocy are regular White House correspondents rather than propagandists because Psaki does a good job of putting him in his place, look around yourselves and see what’s happened in this country in the last 25 years, think about how much Fox News has contributed to that, and then come back and tell me it’s harmless. It’s not.

  149. 149.

    Ruckus

    December 14, 2021 at 5:45 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    OK I didn’t say all of them were bad, and could very likely been far clearer but what I said was that they, like every other employer-employee system follows the job concepts of the employer, the person in charge in the duties of that job, be it a reporter or a barber or machinist or whatever. It is one reason some like to work for themselves rather than an employer. That does not make all the companies in any line of work good or bad, that is up to the people that own and run the organization

    We actually are on the same page, except that I think it goes back farther than 25 yrs. I’m not disagreeing with you, I just am long winded and often leave out things because of that, trying to not be so long winded.

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