Yes, Manchin knocked bunch a bunch of beers on his houseboat last night, woke up this morning and drove his Maserati to the tv studios, and opened his piehole. It’s more of the bad faith bullshit, and I don’t know how much of it he will walk back or if he even will, or he is just setting the stage for his colleagues and the WH to shit on him so he can peace out and join the Republicans or go Independent. I don’t know, and I don’t really care any more, the man is dead to me. But I am getting a little insulted by this bullshit:
“I’ve always said, ‘If I can’t go back home and explain it, I can’t vote for it.’”
That is how Sen. Joe Manchin III (D-W.Va.) explained his announcement Sunday that he “cannot vote” for the hallmark of his party’s agenda, a transformational $2 trillion measure that would overhaul health care, education, climate initiatives, immigration and the tax code.
Look, if Joe is too fucking stupid or incompetent to explain what is in the bill to West Virginia Voters, let’s just have Sen. Sanders or someone else hold a series of televised townhalls explaining what is in it. Cable news would jump all over it for the drama, and it would give Dems an opportunity to directly tell the American people what is in it. Right now, the media has failed and is focusing on the horse race aspects, and the Republicans have been given a free pass.
I don’t know why this is so hard for Joe to explain. I’d think it would be pretty easy to explain extending the child tax credit, black lung benefits, lowering prescription drug prices, expanding medicare, providing home health care for the elderly, and so on to West Virginians. Especially considering that West Virginians are some of the poorest, sickest, and oldest Americans, as well as having a large community of miners with black lung.
Maybe Joe is just dumber than we all though, but this sorta seems like an easy sell to me.
debbie
He can’t explain it because he doesn’t want to. Period. How do people keep reelecting someone who thinks they’re stupid idiots?
Baud
Might not be able to explain why he gave Biden a win.
Grumpy Old Railroader
Perhaps an executive order should be taken off the shelf and dusted off. For starters, an order calling for the closure of coal fired power plants. And just for icing on the cake, tighten all the EPA regs on coal mining. Then sit back and watch the piggie squeal
hells littlest angel
But being unable to explain why he’s voting against it — hey, no problem.
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: Don’t you live in Ohio? I would think you know.
Baud
Perhaps it’s time to invite Manchin over for a “conversation” under the willow tree.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: with Steve.
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Portman at least tries to look like a decent man. Manchin doesn’t even make an attempt.
Can’t paste in from Twitter, but apparently Manchin refused a call from the White House just before going on Fox. (ETA it was @dick nixon)
Suzanne
@zhena gogolia: And a few Covid-positive friends.
Barry
to Grumpy Old Railroader: I agree–I’d love to see the good Joe bring some real pain to the bad Joe.
We need to focus on electing good dems to the Senate. Make Manchin and Sinema irrelevant. I’m thinking Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, shore up Georgia, New Hampshire and Arizona.
Almost Retired
I think Baud has it exactly right in #2, above. If I were a betting man (or, more accurately, if I were any good at betting), I would wager he’ll nominally stay a Democrat until the mid-terms, and then become an “independent’ and caucus with the Republicans for the rest of his term.
He is not doing what’s best for West Virginians, but then again, they’re mostly not voting in their own interests either. Thank God I am dog-sitting the Grand dog this weekend. She’s a balm for my blood pressure, and I take her a for a couple walks per day so she can deposit a steaming pile of “Joe Manchin” in the grass.
James E Powell
Curious to know how WVa newspapers & local TV news are reporting on this.
Shalimar
Nothing has changed. Manchin is opposed to the taxes on rich people that pay for everything. And he’s not explaining that to the poor people of West Virginia struggling to find jobs.
eclare
@debbie: Wow. What a dick to refuse a call from the White House.
HalfAssedHomesteader
Here’s the problem: When you think “home, WV” you think of your friends and neighbors. When Manchin thinks “home, WV” he thinks of the Don Blankenships — you know, the ones that matter.
SpaceUnit
The only way for a Democrat to win in WV is to be the Democrat who screws over the Democratic Party in spectacular fashion. Manchin isn’t dumb but his constituency is (generally speaking).
Also, these threads about Manchin remind me of that joke about the retirement home for comedians. Let’s number our hot takes on the latest Joe Manchin outrage and just post the number in the comments. It will save time.
O. Felix Culpa
@HalfAssedHomesteader:
Aaannd, we have a winner!
sixthdoctor
To the extent I’m surprised, it’s only because Manchin expended a lot of political capital to try and get gun control passed in the wake of Sandy Hook, so I had hoped there was a little bit of that version of him left.
HalfAssedHomesteader
@Baud: Row out onto the lake to go fishing.
James E Powell
@SpaceUnit:
I heard it as a prison joke. “It’s how you tell it.”
Betty
If there is one thing that infuriated me throughout this entire kabuki show from Manchin is that he and so many others keep putting his bad faith on the people of West Vitginia. He has been leading everyone on a merry chase. The people need this help and deserve a Senator who will fight for them instead of himself, his family and his cronies. Grrr!
Kay
I just hope Biden doesn’t get drawn into this again. The man’s a liar, he doesn’t come through, and he’s trying to tank this Presidency. Let Chuck Schumer deal with the Right wing Dem game playing. If Schumer can get something done, great, but distance Biden from the Manchin shit show. Six more months of this bullshit and Biden won’t recover and Biden’s popularity is the single most important factor in the midterms, for all of them as a group.
hilts
Cole,
Who’s got the correct take here, Karen Tumulty or Libby Green?
https://twitter.com/ktumulty/status/1472588371138691076
Karen Tumulty @ktumulty
Would suggest you dig a little more deeply, as I have, before you tell me to “be better.” Polling on policies doesn’t tell the story of West Virginia: https://washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2013/10/26/a-blue-states-road-to-red/
Quote Tweet
Libby Green @greenliz85
Horrible take, Karen. The policies in BBB are extremely popular in WV. Do better, be better. twitter.com/ktumulty/statu…
10:23 AM · Dec 19, 2021
Ryan
Joe is being paid to be willfully ignorant. That’s my cynical take.
zhena gogolia
@SpaceUnit: RIGHT!!!!!
Ryan
@Kay: Why 10? Why not 100? You’re just kicking the can down the road if you only fund for 10.
Ruckus
@Shalimar:
He’s not close in any way to being one of those poor people. He’s done real well for himself over the years and while he may not be as wealthy as many that he knows, he’s far wealthier than most of his constituents. He’s not doing any of this for the vast majority of his constituents, he’s doing all of this for himself. And screwing his constituents and most of the rest of the country to his own benefit.
Kay
@Ryan:
It’s a way to blame the Left wing Dems for the Right wng Dems. It’s a time honored tradition. All of media will go along. If only President Joe Manchin’s demands had been honored….
If Biden lets go they’re on their own and they’ll either get something done or they won’t- but he has to let go. They’re killing him. It’s stupid and counterproductive for those Democrats who hope to keep a majority because the most important factor in that is Biden’s popularity, but they’re too stupid and egotistical to see it. So Biden has to walk away.
Take the high road. People fucking hate Congress. Say he’s going to let Congress bicker and get some Presidenting done. They can bring him a bill to sign when they’re done.
JoyceH
Elizabeth Warren just tested positive for COVID.
The Thin Black Duke
Manchin’s cowardice is another reason to despise him. It’s contemptible to watch him pretend to be something he’s not. At least toxic shitweasels like Rand Paul, Ted Cruz and Mitch O’Connell are brutally upfront about being greedy sociopaths.
Craig
@Betty: yes, this! He’s just an asshole, using the people of WV as an excuse that he can’t do anything to actually help them. It’s clear his constituents aren’t the coal miners, but the Coal Mine owners who keep fucking them over.
Cermet
The WV people may be some of the poorest, sickest and oldest general population among states but they are some of the deepest racist as well. They’d burn down their own homes if it prevent blacks from ever having a home. Explaining BBB to them is unlikely to work if they believe blacks will benefit a great deal, too. More WV’s voted for a prisoner in prison then for Obama during the Dem (!) primary. Their racism will trump the Dem’s and the pun is meant as well.
zhena gogolia
@JoyceH: Oh, no.
trollhattan
@JoyceH:
No, not Liz! Stay well, senator, you’re needed.
Presume she’s triple-jabbed and will remain relatively healthy or better, symptom free.
topclimber
I guess the worst case is that Dems have to run on BBB again in 2022. Meanwhile it is all about voting rights, reproductive freedom and getting accountability for Jan.6. That and hopefully seeing the last big wave of COVID might muster a Dem turnout.
wvng
@Baud: Yeah, that’s it. I live in WV, and know a solid majority would not forgive him for giving Biden a win, even as a very solid majority would very much benefit from most of the things in the BBB legislation that Joe refuses to pass. As everyone here at BJ knows, republicans care more about pissing on Dems than life.
I am really struggling with this news today. I keep telling people that things are much worse for the Dems if Joe is cast out, because then we get NOTHING, no judges, none of the good things that have happened since Biden was sworn in. All that is true, but Manchin is making it really hard to want those things more than seeing him suffer.
trollhattan
@The Thin Black Duke:
The image of him looking down at protestors paddling towards his yacht’s comically tall stern is forever seared into my head. They are literal little people in Manchen World.
The Dangerman
Lucy. Charlie Brown. Football.
Its time to cut this Guy’s figurative balls off. Committee Chair? FTS. If he’s gonna vote Republican, he can run as a Republican (of course he can’t win the primary).
grumbles
Screw that dirtbag fuck. Twice. Sideways.
I wonder exactly how many of his “good friends” he ends up putting out of work, and how many of his constituents die.
Hope he enjoys rolling around in his money.
The Thin Black Duke
@Cermet: In football, if a play is successful, you keep running it until it doesn’t work anymore. Racism is the coin Manchin uses to buy the loyalty of his constituents. Manchin is a member of the lucky sperm club who parties on his yacht, but his voters blame their poverty on imaginary black people that live thousands of miles away. No reason to change what works.
gene108
@Betty:
How badly is opposition to BBB hurting WV’s other Senator, Shelley Capito (R)?
Unlike Manchin, she didn’t vote for ARP. ARP lowered my monthly healthcare premium by hundreds of dollars. Probably did the same for many in WV.
I’ve come to the sad reality that what seems overwhelming crystal clear to liberals as being supremely important to society doesn’t register with most people. This includes people who’d benefit the most from liberal policies.
I don’t know why. People have different priorities. They place importance on different things. Their idea of what best serves their self-interest is also based on a line of thinking that escapes me.
brantl
Joe Manchin, shitbag extraodinaire.
Kay
I knew they would get there. This is a fairly mainstream view on the far Right. They deny the obvious fact that enslaved people suffered uniquely under slavery. One of the dopes in the Koch backed group, Moms Defending Stupidity or whatever it is, believes Irish immigrants were enslaved.
They’re mad because they can’t claim victimhood. Their whiny, bleating persecution complex demands that no one out-suffer them. It’s the same idea as “all lives matter”. They hear “slavery” they immediately think their suffering is being ignored.
Me. me me. Conservatives have raised an entire generation of resentful whiners.
trnc
JC, you aren’t taking Manchin’s statement literally enough. He can’t sell it AT HOME, where only multimillionaires live either full time or during holiday family gatherings.
gene108
@Ryan:
10 years is how long provisions in a bill passed through budget reconciliation will last, unless they are shown to reduce or at least be deficit neutral.
This is why Bush, Jr.’s tax cuts automatically expired in 2011.
Brachiator
Bernie Sanders explained it well on a clip I saw from the Tapper program. This is not rocket science.
And explaining it to the American people is a dodge and a lazy lie. Right now, the only person who has to understand the BBB legislation is Manchin and maybe a few other senators.
Also, the media have not failed. Most Democrats are just waiting for the Senate to pass the goddam bill.
RaflW
My general take on things is that Mancin is stupid and obtuse, and thinks he’s somehow working some magic angle. That he hates being called out on his bullshit just makes him more dug in, more stupid, and more obtuse.
Did he play football in his youth? Maybe he has an unacknowledged TBI.
wvng
@gene108: “I’ve come to the sad reality that what seems overwhelming crystal clear to liberals as being supremely important to society doesn’t register with most people. This includes people who’d benefit the most from liberal policies.” Yeah, when the ACA was rolling out, Navigators in WV had to be certain not to mention it was “the Obama bill” when they were trying to get people to sign up on the exchanges or in Expanded Medicaid. Many would never have considered signing up if they knew that, even as it has been life changing for hundreds of thousands of West Virginians. Policy doesn’t seem to matter. Just culture bullshit and petty grievances.
WaterGirl
@eclare: I think you spelled total fucking coward wrong.
hilts
Joe Manchin is Ebenezer Scrooge, Henry Potter, and the Grinch all rolled into one.
eclare
@WaterGirl: You are right!
trnc
If it makes you feel any better, Manchin won’t suffer at all for any reason, so even if getting judges seated is all we get from him, it’s better than nothing.
What’s infuriating, of course, is that he implies that he’s made any effort at all to talk up BBB. Unless someone can point to a town hall where he has, then I’d give him a little credit for trying, but I doubt he’s done anything other than complain about it. Obviously, a real journalist would have asked if there is any clip of him trying to explain it to constituents.
eclare
@wvng: Exactly right.
gene108
@Kay:
I saw Irish slavery as a common topic among some real life acquaintances on Facebook in 2016. It’s an idea that’s been around for awhile, but never seemed to catch on beyond the fringes. Guess that’s going to change.
I can’t wait for the only acceptable way to teach slavery is to discuss how much slavery benefited black people.
This is already an idea among many conservatives, but they know they can’t say it out loud. They are just dying to explain to blacks how much slavery helped them, because they aren’t poor in Africa and live in the richest country ever, they earned eternal salvation by being converted to Christianity, the hard work of slavery was necessary to drive out their inherent laziness,
and learned how to act and dress like civilized people.
The next step in their dream is a thank you from blacks to white people for enslaving them. White people never got that thank you, and it drives conservatives nuts.
hilts
@The Thin Black Duke:
Agreed, I’ve never seen another politician who laid it on thicker than Joe Manchin. All along, he’s pretended to be this agonized individual who was simply holding out so long in order to get the best possible bill for WV residents. He deserves to burn in Hell.
Kropacetic
Manchin’s word clearly isn’t worth the breath used to express it.
Spanky
@hilts:
Allow me to introduce you to li’l Susie Collins.
Alison Rose
we hates him, precious
Ella in New Mexico
Oh, he’s not dumb. He’s just corrupt as fuck now that he’s had the opportunity of a lifetime as the 50th vote in the Senate.
Fuck Build Back Better for now, then. Lets pass voting rights and add a little campaign finance reform and transparency law on for good measure so everyone can see just who these motherfuckers really work for.
My 88 year old Dad is just disgusted with politics right now. Happened to stop by their house to drop off some Christmas cookies and the TV was on (CNN up to 100 cuz they’re both pretty much deaf, of course) blaring about Manchin’s latest bullshit and he yelled out to me in the kitchen” That stupid son of a bitch he can kiss my ass with that shit” which is pretty harsh for Dad.
As I said below in the thread “What if…?” all I want for Christmas is a Cloak of Invisibility and some gas money.
TriassicSands
It’s not the voters he can’t explain it to — it’s the corrupt special interests to whom he answers that are the problem. I’ve struggled to try to understand what Manchin’s real problem is.
Stupidity? Probably not, he knows he’s lying and what the truth is.
Narcissism? Yeah, a huge problem, but he could milk the BBB for all it’s worth, get endless attention, and then be the big hero by voting for the bill. Nope, it’s probably not narcissism.
Dishonesty and corruption? That seems like it has to be the answer. Going on Fox to announce his opposition is a massive scream out to the most corrupt people in American politics. His endless lack of “good faith,” while endlessly claiming ” good faith” is a strong indicator.
The Democrats should censure him for dishonesty and a lack of good faith. But they can’t risk his changing parties, can they? Maybe he’s decided that’s the way to go. Maybe he’s got a multi-million dollar job lined up with ???
Gravenstone
@sixthdoctor: He mouthed a lot of pretty words in the wake of Sandy Hook. He spent no political capital of any value, since his supposed bill died an ignominious death at the hands of his supposed Republican friends.
Matt McIrvin
@gene108:
Oh, they say it out loud. Remember when David Horowitz tried to take out ads talking about how slavery was good for black people in a bunch of campus newspapers, so he could whine about political correctness if they didn’t run it?
Noskilz
My suspicion is that it’s a “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.” – just substitute “salary” with personal wealth and coal baron cosplay.
He understands exactly what he’s doing, he just doesn’t care about the consequences for anyone but himself.
Due to the nature of how fine the control of the Senate is, there’s a definite limit on how hard he and Sinema can be screwed with, but after weeks of bullshit like this, the White House needs to start hitting deliverables that don’t require them and very methodically exacting costs for these antics.
Getting rid of DeJoy and Student Loan debt seem like good starting points, and I’m sure bright folks in the White House can come up with other options, but it is well past time for the White House and Schumer to acknowledge that Manchin is a liar and a fool.
Mai Naem mobile
@Ruckus: oh, I think he’s very very wealthy – its just that the wealth has been passed onto the son who doesn’t have to disclose his taxes for election purposes. He’s not the only one. Look into these political families and there’s always a son, daughter, parents or siblings making big $$$ off lobbying or government contracts or real estate related to government contracts. Chuck Grassley and his daughter. Trent Lott and his son. Susan Collins and her husband. Mitch McConnell and his inlaws. We act like we’re some special uncorruptible country, in fact we just hide it better than the Argentinians, Indonesians or whatever third world country.
Craig
@Mai Naem mobile: DiFi’s husband has made gazillions through her votes.
SiubhanDuinne
@The Dangerman:
Why “figurative”?
SiubhanDuinne
@hilts:
Assuming the reference is to Mr Potter in It’s a Wonderful Life, I never knew he had a first name! Shall have to watch/listen more carefully the next time it comes along.
Sebastian
Heather Bresch, Manchin’s daughter, increased EpiPen prices by 461%.
Let’s treat her like Martin Shkreli and have Papa Joe feel the effects of naked fucking political power when she rots 12 years in prison.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Sebastian: for what crime?
Sebastian
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The same that Martin Shkreli is doing time for.
dww44
@trnc: The answer to Manchin’s appearance on Fox News this morning is that his controllers called in their chips. He personifies why the glut of money in our political system is bringing our democracy to its knees. He has no independent thought or motives. It’s all about the rich and powerful. Never about the little person. Were you all fooled by his behavior in the aftermath of Sandy Hook? Nothing good, vis-a-vis gun policy was ever gonna come of that. But I’m not depressed. The fight continues. More Jen Saki type messaging will get us over the top.
Honus
“I’ve always said, ‘If I can’t go back home and explain it, I can’t vote for it.’”
Fuck you Joe. I grew up 20 miles from you. What you really mean is “If cant sit at Lola’s eating pizza in south hills and explain to coal heirs, I won’t vote for it”
you forgot where you came ftom.
NWO Joe
There’s a part of me that thinks Joe Biden ought to send a vessel down past Manchin’s yacht and run a couple of torpedoes into the side.
I’m sure there’s another part of me but I can’t find it yet.
AnonPhenom
@Kay:
@gene108:
@Matt McIrvin:
If the need arises for reference material to counter the specious comparison of indentured servitude to chattel slavery you’ll find this useful.
Ohio Mom
@Sebastian: Shkreli went to jail for shenanigans with the hedge funds he ran — lying to investors, taking money out he wasn’t entitled to, stuff like that, NOT
for raising the price of whatever drug that was.
I don’t think Manchin’s daughter has done anything illegal like that. What she did was immoral but not illegal.
AnonPhenom
…And as long as I’m here. Since the United States is ‘no longer at war’ I fail to see the need for two military bases in West Virginia. Biden needs to shut one of them down. Then start looking at bases in Arizona.
Fuck Manchin.
Fuck Sinema.
nasruddin
When I read this
I immediately thought of the Upton Sinclair epigram
Sebastian
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
yeah, that was stupid. Shkreli had a ponzi going on, Bresch is just a standard corrupt pharma CEO. Notwithstanding this, it might not be a bad time to channel one’s inner LBJ.
A much funnier thought experiment is this:
If Cruz and Hawley are taken out by 6 JAN, what happens in the Senate?