The pure joy on President Biden’s face (00:25 mark) when Muir asks him if he’d run against TFG in 2024…
Biden on 2024.
Says Trump running would make him more likely to run again.
Says he plans to run "but look. I'm a great respecter of fate. Fate has intervened in my life many, many times. If I'm in the health I'm in now, if i'm in good health, then in fact I would run again." pic.twitter.com/7G07P18Vxn— Alex Thompson (@AlexThomp) December 23, 2021
U.S. President Joe Biden said the creation of a task force to address supply chain issues has made âsignificant progressâ and staved off a pre-Christmas crisis https://t.co/WDL2ZHKU4i pic.twitter.com/JhksEzzUQE
— Reuters (@Reuters) December 23, 2021
Take that Scrooge, the Grinch and all of the doubters that this could happen. Also shelves are stocked at 90% (pre-pandemic levels are 91%) https://t.co/THrlScmXwf
— Jen Psaki (@PressSec) December 22, 2021
The US economy is booming, with a 7% annualized growth rate expected in the final quarter compared with 2% last quarter. America is outpacing the Eurozone (2%) and China (4%). ?@TomFairless? https://t.co/8xf0ZtryCU
— Peter Baker (@peterbakernyt) December 22, 2021
A bow on your present:
I thought I knew Green Eggs and Ham better than most people, but at Kimball Elementaryâs vaccination site earlier this month I finally met my match. pic.twitter.com/4MI1BcIsPZ
— Barack Obama (@BarackObama) December 22, 2021
Baud
I thought we cancelled Dr. Suess.
In other news
Baud
Great clips, AL.
Jo Jo las Orejas
@Baud:
ÂĄBuenos dĂas!
OzarkHillbilly
Oh yeah? Well I paid $2.82 per gallon for gas yesterday and this time last year I was only paying $2.78. Joe Biden really blows!
Oh yeah, somebody hit a deer right at the top of our driveway last night. Billie Jean dog can smell it and has been driving us nuts all night with wanting to go out and get some of it. So now, before I go to PT, I get to tie it to my hitch and drag it a mile or so away.
That’s Joe Biden’s fault too!
Baud
@Jo Jo las Orejas:
¥Hola! ¿Qué pasa?
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: I found this last night. Prepare yourself for 5 minutes of fossil-y goodness.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@OzarkHillbilly: This event makes me glad yet again that I live in an old people condo. Nobody will ever expect me to drag a deer carcass anywhere.
OzarkHillbilly
And I’m off on corpse detail.
@Dorothy A. Winsor: If I didn’t have hounds…
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Glad you only have to deal with human carcasses. They are much lighter.
Betty Cracker
It’s in the 30s here this morning. I hate it!
Kay
I’m thrilled about the economy. Good job, Joe. I assumed we were looking at another five year recession when the pandemic hit. Avoiding that is all good, for everyone, even if your grocery bill is 30 dollars higher. The alternative is much, much worse.
SFAW
@Betty Cracker:
It’s in the mid-20s here in Central MA — Spring is in the air!
And can you feel the days getting longer?
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone ???
Baud
@Kay:
The economy is so good, it’s safe for voters to vote Republican again.
Betty
@OzarkHillbilly: Only a mile away?
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
raven
@Baud: It depends on how much they weigh.
debbie
Joe got that supply chain fixed! Take that, TFG!
NotMax
Diff’rent strokes for diff’rent Christmas celebrants,
:)
Ken
You’re inviting the attention of every trickster god out there.
Another Scott
Cheers,
Scott.
SFAW
@Kay:
Many years ago, when Mrs. SFAW and I were looking to buy our first house, she lamented how RE prices were rising — this was the mid-1980s, and there had been a run-up, although not as bad as this last year or so — and was hoping they would drop. I said she didn’t really want that, because of what it would mean regarding the economy, i.e., recession.
Baud
Seriously, did anyone in the last 15 years ever expect our economy would ever be hotter than China’s again?
You know who should be selling this? All those people who complained that Obama didn’t do enough and fought for a more Kensian response directed at ordinary people. If they don’t start selling the success of the idea soon, we’ll be back to an austerity, trickle down economic philosophy in no time.
Kay
@Baud:
So true. I would like some walkbacks from media on their droning recitation of the “economy is bad” for the last year, but I know I’ll never get it. It wasn’t true. It was demonstrably untrue “on the ground” and in all the usual ways people measure “an economy”. I don’t give any of them credit for finally admitting it. They should go do another ridiculous and exaggerated milk prices story. It’s all they’re useful for. Enetertainment.
Baud
@Kay:
I saw a story the other day about audacious burglaries caught on video and how to protect yourself. They did at least have the decency to note quickly that burglaries are way down nationally.
Kay
@Baud:
Could not agree more and it’s a real problem on the Left. They cannot accept a win. This was an experiment in what a more liberal and populist economic approach would look like, and they bitched and moaned thru the whole thing. The truth is they’re not effective advocates for their own positions.
SFAW
@Another Scott:
DougJ/FTFTFNYT Pitchbot is a National Treasure, but some of the replies to that tweet are pretty effing funny, too.
Kay
@Baud:
I hope they understand that every police agency in the country are using their crime panic to demand more and more funding and less and less oversight. No one is even asking why police suddenly couldn’t fight crime although none of their budgets were cut. I don’t know why they have to create a panic around everything. It’s bad. It always boomerangs.
You can’t even question police now. The Mayor of NYC said yesterday that no one may talk about police unless they have been one. Fucking ridiculous.
JPL
@Baud: Bravo! Cruz wants to be the next one to tank the economy.
Geminid
@Kay: Some people on the left are emotionally and intellectually committed to the proposition that liberal policies are inadequate and must fail. The success of a liberal/ moderate Democratic coalition is as big a threat to them as it is to Republicans.
Baud
@JPL:
FWIW, I believe he’s up to the task.
debbie
@Baud:
How long until China calls that fake news? //
Chris
As it’s an open thread, thanks to everybody who chimed in last week on the whole “the place I was applying to sent a reference request to my current bosses without warning me and it was the first they heard about it” mess. Bosses were taken aback but both took it pretty well, so at least that potential bomb didn’t blow up. We’ll see how the job app goes.
John S.
@Baud:
Democrats should be selling it.
Instead of Biden being on defense with David Muir about there being a shortage of rapid tests, him and the rest of the party he leads should be thumping their fucking chests about every piece of good news that exists.
Lord knows the MSM ainât gonna do it.
ETA: Sounds like quite a few of us agree on this.
Chris
@Kay:
No one is even asking why police suddenly couldnât fight crime although none of their budgets were cut.
“People said mean things about me! Mean things! The humanity!”
Seriously, the best poster child for the police last year was that policewoman who went to a drive-thru at McDonalds, had the people mess up her order, and then pulled up and uploaded a video sobbing that she just knew the drive-thru people were trying to kill her.
WereBear
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Likewise, why I have cats. They stay inside, I stay inside, and watch others drag deer carcasses.
Good for all.
SiubhanDuinne
@Betty Cracker:
It was 24° when I woke up!
mrmoshpotato
Fuck all y’all haters!
Love, Jen.
WereBear
@Betty Cracker: And you’re in a wetlands and it’s damp.
Coldwise, I am actually better off like Tuesday when it was 19 and sunny. Went around with my coat open, took a walk.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Did he really? JFC, how ridiculous. That’s much worse than the inane crypto boosterism!
Jo Jo las Orejas
@Baud:
Todo lo que hace mi mamĂĄ es empacar para nuestra mudanza a mi tierra natal. Quiero jugar en el parque para perros. Estoy siendo un buen chico, dice ella.
SFAW
@Geminid:
I know you mean well, and generally like and appreciate your comments, but you (and a number of others here) need to come up with a different term than “the left” to classify the Nader/Stein/Green/whoever acolytes. They’re more a group of “fuck everyone who doesn’t try to destroy (what WE think is) corporatism RIGHT EFFING NOW!” than they are “liberals.”
I was more-or-less on board with the Bern-or-Bust-er hatred in 2016, and I still don’t have a ton of love for them (as contrasted with Bernie himself, although I didn’t have a lot of love for him, either), but I consider myself a liberal, or a lefty, or whatever (not not a “progressive”). I kept calling myself a liberal when GHWB and the rest of the Partei of Traitors tried to turn “L-l-l-l-l-l-liberal” into a latter-day “Child molester!!!” Doesn’t make me anything special, of course, and it’s obviously a pet peeve of mine, but I do sometimes get tired of the “liberal”/”left” bashing.
OK, I’ll stop whining now.
WereBear
@Kay: Gosh, yes. I know people who never dug out from 2008.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: True progressives only criticize Democrats. Biden got zero credit from them for pulling out of Afghanistan and he will get no credit for the economy either from them. You can take that to the bank.
They will continuing whining.
We are out of Afghanistan and Joe Biden has reduced the use of drones but those decrying forever war are mum.
SFAW
@Jo Jo las Orejas:
Como siempre, verdad?
mrmoshpotato
That Obama video is great. ?
WereBear
Isn’t that literally entering a premises where no one else is in residence? We’re all staying home! How are they going to manage that? :)
SFAW
@SiubhanDuinne:
And hear I thought you were already woke, not just today.
Betty Cracker
@SiubhanDuinne: Puppy thinks we should suspend housetraining operations until it warms up, but nope. We both shivered outside until he climbed off my boots long enough to pee. :)
Jo Jo las Orejas
@SFAW:
Por supuesto. Sin embargo, extraño a mi novia de Nuevo México. Ella es pelirroja.
Chris
@John S.:
True, but it’s hard to know how the hell to get the message out when the MSM is committed to not reporting it. It’s like the Hillary campaign in 2016 – she kept trying to talk about what she wanted to accomplish as POTUS, and the media did wall-to-wall nothing but “her emailz” and “her only message is I’m A Woman Vote For Me!”
I don’t know what the answer is, except that the party badly needs to start delegitimizing the media in their supporters’ eyes, and the voters badly need to stop taking the MSM’s bait.
WereBear
@Betty Cracker: Get the little feller a jacket!
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: Who might those people be? Elected progressives bitched about Obama’s response to the meltdown. As far as I can tell, elected progressives, and Biden, are touting the economy now. Now, whether the press covers that is a different matter entirely.
Betty Cracker
@SFAW: You’re not the only one. The irony is it’s another one-track mindset.
WereBear
@WereBear: Actually, my mother’s Papillon was acquired while she was living here in the Frozen North. He became so fond of his little boots and matching outfits that even in Florida when it wasn’t raining, he had to have a fresh ensemble.
WereBear
I think social media support of non-corporate media helps moderate that once-overwhelming source.
We need an FCC out of Game of Thrones. That’s my advice.
John S.
@Chris:
I hate to say it, but delegitimization of the MSM works for the GQP. Itâs an article of their faith. If the Democrats start trashing the MSM, then there is literally nobody in politics left to give them credibility.
Sometimes you just have to toot your own horn. Especially when nobody else will. And in this post-truth society we now live in, it would be amazing to see the MSM squeal when the Democrats are doing that AND itâs based on fact.
Half a Pinocchio rating and a âSort of Not 100% Accurateâ fact check arenât gonna cut it in a world where the GQP puke funnel is just nonstop spouting Pants on Fire bullshit.
Kay
@WereBear:
Exactly. I was afraid some of that same group would get hit again. Most people were still going to work here- it’s just the nature of the work here that nearly all of them were “essential” so we never really had even a slowdown. Their behavior never matched with what I was being told about the economy. They were buying like crazy and buying “on time” – houses, autos, financed home improvements- and people don’t take those payments on if they’re anxious about making payments. They were behaving confidently, which is why I more and more think it was media-driven. It should match up- it didn’t.
SiubhanDuinne
@SFAW:
Hahaha! Woke af!
mrmoshpotato
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
You don’t know what we expect of you!
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh:
As a practicing normies, I’ll admit to not being up on all happenings. I have seen Biden tout the economy. Can you give me a link to the best example you have of elected progressives doing it? It hasn’t penetrated my bubble.
Kay
@WereBear:
I think what we saw was an economic argument – mostly ideological- kind of cloaked in “kitchen table” claims. They wanted there to be downside from a lower class and middle class “bailout”, because they don’t support lower class and middle class bailouts. It was a reprise of the “stimulus versus austerity” argument we saw after the financial crash. They won that one- they wanted to win this one. It just FEELS wrong to them for people to get enhanced unemployment “free money”. That’s why they invented the “lazy moochers won’t work because we gave them too much money” theme, which didn’t turn out to be true. It’s kind of radical to bail out lower and middle- they were uncomfortable with it. They’re still uncomfortable with it.
Baud
@Jo Jo las Orejas:
MamĂĄ sabe lo mejor.
Ocotillo
@mrmoshpotato: Agreed. I shared it with Mrs. O and commented, can you imagine Trump interacting with children.
What come to mind is him asking a kid why he still believed in Santa and infamous picture of him yelling at the kid mowing the grass.
Van Buren
@OzarkHillbilly: And I complained when I had to bag up a dead Robin in my front yard.
@OzarkHillbilly:
Chris
@SFAW:
Yeah.
I was happy to dump on Bernie and his diehards for most of 2015-2020, but the fact is that he’s done very little but be a team player since his concession a year and a half ago, and most of the diehard “Democrats are worse than Republicans they sold us out!” lefties I’ve seen are on Twitter or, very occasionally, talking heads in the Greenwald tradition.
When it comes to actual government officials, the left is overwhelmingly not the problem right now. The problem is centrist and institutionalist, be it senators jockeying for the Joe Liebermann award or non-elected officials from Supreme Court to DOJ refusing to treat the attack on democracy as the five-alarm-fire it is. The only person in this category who can arguably be blamed on “the left” is Sinema, and even there it’s notable that she shed the Green thing and reinvented herself as a John Mavericky McCain type centrist before she ran for office.
Kay
But if I were a Leftist and I espoused public supports to buttress lower and middle class, I would be yelling from the rooftops that “it worked! We stood them up and the whole economy benefitted!”
What if we always did this? We cut child poverty in half with 300 bucks a month? What a great investment! We’ll save a ton down the line!
But Leftists don’t do this, because it’s more important that they hate liberals than it is that they cut child poverty in half.
WereBear
@mrmoshpotato: In my previous work, it was right there in the job description: “other duties as assigned.”
Fair Economist
@SFAW: As I, and many others have pointed out, genuine leftists like Chomsky and AOC support Democrats over Republicans. They are not “burn it down” types because they don’t want all the suffering, and they know that economic catastrophe doesn’t put hard leftists in power. The Rose Twitter brigade is made up of rightist plants like Rosanne Barr (before she outed herself as a Trumper) and grifters who don’t care.
WereBear
Yes, years of stoking “don’t take charity!” and such, even in family lore. Those stiff necks are for the boss’ advantage, since they take take plenty of corporate welfare.
But all of that money does make the economy run, and high level money hoarders are the reason we keep blowing engines.
SFAW
@Van Buren:
Well, in fairness, Batman shoulda been the one.
Suzanne
@SFAW: Agreed. The left is not the issue. I never liked the cult of personality around Bernie, but FFSâŠ. itâs the centrists who are the fucking problem. Bernie, AOC, Warren, Omar, Cori BushâŠ. every one of them is superior to Manchin and Sinema.
Baud
@Chris: I don’t think anyone here is saying that elected progressives are worse than Manchinema. My point is that I would like progressives to use their voices to sell this hot economy and to take credit for lefty economic policy. If they are doing that, all I can say is that it hasn’t penetrated my info bubble, so I’m not sure how effective it is in reaching others
ETA:Â My comment, at least, has nothing to do with BernieBros or Rose Twitter, of whom I expect nothing but derision towards us.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@WereBear: I once interviewed a bunch of technicians about work orders the engineers wrote for them. The engineers were aware that even though they were theoretically telling the techs what to do, the techs had a lot of knowledge they could exercise–or not. So they usually included a phrase like the one you cite. My favorite version was “Please try to anticipate all future problems with this project.”
Jo Jo las Orejas
@Baud:
Ella ciertamente lo hace. Ella nos estĂĄ trasladando a un lugar mejor. Nuestra nueva casa tiene calefacciĂłn por suelo radiante. Tengo un patio mĂĄs grande. Tiene un invernadero.
Kay
@Suzanne:
I’m ideologically more toward them and I defend them here all the time and even I get tired of it. There’s an unwillingness to admit things that grates on me. An example is the Medicaid expansion in Obamacare. It’s an unequivocal good thing for low income people and they refused to admit that. HUGE success and it’s Obama’s success. He covered millions more poor people. It will pay off for years, probably generations because low income people will be healthier. There was a weird kind of elitism to it too- like they disdained Medicaid as a poor people program, not something they would ever accept for themselves.
They can’t just be professional critics of liberals. They have to bring something to the table.
Baud
@Jo Jo las Orejas:
Suena que es un lugar hermoso y muy tranquil. Estoy seguro que te lo encantada.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Does Rep. Jayapal count as a lefty? She’s been outspoken about the benefits of the direct cash aid to Americans during the pandemic, CTC, etc. I believe Porter and AOC have too. Maybe it’s more a matter of what gets covered than what progressive lawmakers say. This is a common problem. I mean, people criticized HRC for focusing on Trump instead of the economy, and she talked about the economy all the time! But you had to look for it because it didn’t get covered.
Chris
@Fair Economist:
It’s not even a matter of “genuine leftists” who support Democrats versus “right wing plants” who don’t to me, it’s a matter of who’s getting elected. There are progressive idiots who think The Democrats Are The Real Enemy, okay – no dispute here. There are, after all, idiots everywhere. The question is, is this faction actually significant in any way? Are there enough of these idiots to get people elected to Congress, or are they influential enough to get people nominated to Supreme Court seats or cabinet posts, where they can actually gum up the works? Because as far as I can tell, the answer is “no” – the progressives we have in high positions aren’t like this – and that’s very much not the case with the centrists.
JCJ
@Betty Cracker:
It was 30 degrees this morning here in SE Wisconsin. A warm up! I’ll take it!
SFAW
@Chris:
Part of the reason we’re in this place today is because the RWMFs had a concerted 30-year (+/-) effort to delegitimize the MSM. They incessantly screamed about the “LIBERAL MEDIA” and how the MSM was being unfair to the pore Republicans. The MSM responded by bending over backwards not to hold the RWMFs to account, mainly to stop getting yelled at by the RWMFs.
I don’t know if screaming at them incessantly is the answer, but it’ll take a number of years before they’re “whole” again, if ever. I hope I live long enough to see it.
germy
Madison Cawthorn’s wife filed for divorce.
Does this mean she can give testimony against him, if necessary?
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I haven’t seen it, maybe because of lack of coverage or because of my own media habits.
But to be clear, I have heard them advocate for benefits and explain the good that they would do. What I haven’t heard them do is take credit for the good things that have happened because we did certain things, particularly when it comes to the economy. Again, maybe that’s just me
ETA:
The progressive message that penetrates my bubble is “we need to do more, what we’ve done isn’t good enough”; it’s not “look at all the good we’ve done so far, we need to build on this.”
Cameron
@Betty Cracker: That’s weird. It went to down to the high 40’s last night and is in the high 50’s now – and I’m not really that far (at least in Florida terms) from where you are.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Since this is an open thread I will repeat what I posted on the COVID thread- they are really, really desperate for people in BioTech. Know anyone who looking to re-enter the workforce or feeling shut out because they were laid off for to long, tell them to try BioTech.
Kay
It never went anywhere because it literally doesn’t matter at all how you treat women if you are a Republican male- could even be a positive among the base- but I’m glad she got out. 8 months is speedy quick.
They’re raising a whole generation of Madison Cawthorns and Kyle Rittenhouses. Cawthorn told conservative youth not to go to college this week. They’re making more of these men.
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
That reminds me that I miss lamh36.
Geminid
@SFAW: Yes, “the left” is too elastic a term, and it would be good if there was a better word for the people I speak about. But please note that I said “people on the left,” and quickly edited it to “Some people on the left.”
It seems to me that most Sanders supporters from 2016 and 2020 have come around to supporting the Biden administration, despite whatever reservations the have concerning the scope and pace of it’s basic policies. I’m talking about people who do not want this administration to succeed and try to undermine it. They are not so numerous, but they make a lot of noise.
WereBear
@Geminid: So many people want a big red EASY button to smack but all of fans of Ren & Stimpy know how dangerous that is.
Everyone needs to crowd-source some good sources of reality-based information. This cannot be distorted to fit the willfully delusional among us; pick Mother Jones or TPM (both places I’ve donated in the past) and see how stuff plays out over time, or matches up with our own conclusions.
That’s where the back and forth here is so valuable. I learn so much about wildlife carcass disposal, for instance.
germy
JMG
@Kay: I honestly believe that when people who aren’t partisan Republicans say “the economy is bad and Biden isn’t doing enough to improve it” they are sublimating their real thought, which is “the pandemic is still around and making me anxious. I thought Biden would end it.” It has nothing to do with their own economic status. Hence, there’s polls in which a majority of folks say the economy is bad and yet at the same time say that their personal situation is just fine.
germy
Baud
@WereBear:
This is a full service blog.
Chris
@Geminid:
I mean, the other thing is, I get the impression that the people who are like this are increasingly not even pretending anymore that they’re on “the left.” Glenn Greenwald used to be the patron saint of the phenomenon you describe, and… well, look at him now. Has he even appeared on any network other than Fox News lately? He’s not even really trying to sting the left-of-center coalition from the inside at this point, he’s just a straightforward NewsCorp mouthpiece.
geg6
@SFAW:
Same. Â Iâll be a liberal until I die. Â Do not call me anything else, thanks.
germy
My wife and I were driving home from the store this morning and a pickup truck in front of us had a “TRUMP 2020” sticker, with the last “0” covered by a “4”. He also had a “thin blue line flag” decal (or as we call it the Black Lives Don’t Matter decal). My wife said that she notices vehicles like that, with all the right wing decals, the drivers usually behave recklessly in traffic. And sure enough, a few seconds after she made that observation, the pickup truck sped through a red light.
Jo Jo las Orejas
@Baud:
Tengo que tomar clases para evitar serpientes de cascabel. Mamå también tiene una foto del dueño anterior. Hay una familia Bobcat que viene en verano.
Betty Cracker
@Cameron: The Tampa Bay area is definitely in another climate zone, even though it’s not that far away. I’ve noticed this all my life since I’ve lived in both places and visited back and forth. The weather, plants, birds, fish, etc., are subtly different.
@Baud: I spent 0.53 seconds on Google and found this:
AWOL
@germy: I’m not sure if reverse-pegging is a crime even where they come from . . .
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
That’s great. Not precisely selling the economy, but it least it’s taking credit for something good that we did.
ETA
I can also see why it wouldn’t penetrate my bubble since I don’t do Twitter.
Geminid
@Chris: Greenwald is an outlier among the people I speak of. The more typical are Sirota, Turner, and those jerks at Jerkobin Magazine..
germy
This helps. I like them.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Respectfully, maybe it’s your bubble and/or the lack of coverage for anything that isn’t controversial? Any politician worth her salt sells the benefits of the legislation she helped pass — even the nay voters (hypocritically) do that! I’m not going to search for it, but I’m fairly certain I saw a clip of Porter touting the economic impact of the ARP at some point.
Fair Economist
@Geminid: I think the observation that the difference between liberal-supporting leftists and liberal-attacking leftists is whether they are loud points out the cause. It’s not that the supporters don’t talk or tweet, it’s that the malign ones get amplified. IOW the problem is right-oriented media, and the troll farms.
Cameron
@germy: “…colloquially known as the ‘flasher bug…'”
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
I made the receptionist and one office staffer listen to the Christmas Shoes song today, and they now hate me for it.
My mission is accomplished.
Ken
@germy: Amazing, but a little sad when you remember how many millions of not-quite-perfect mimics were eaten before achieving that degree of perfection
germy
@Ken:
We stand on the shoulders of our ancestors.
germy
@Cameron:
The ability to startle one’s enemies is a trick that can be learned here on balloon-juice.
Ken
@germy: I come from a three-billion-year-old line of ancestors, every one of which lived long enough to reproduce.
(I forget the original author.)
John S.
@Betty Cracker:
Herein lies the problem. You have to go digging for that positive message and only find it on Twitter or press releases from Congresspeople. It is not being broadcast or amplified anywhere that non-political devotees can find it.
All the masses get to see and hear is doom and gloom pumped into the MSM by the GQP puke funnel, and further amplified outside their echo chamber. There is very little in the way of a positive message piercing the veil of news for those who arenât actively looking for it.
ETA: Even worse, Biden goes out of his way to sit down with David Muir â knowing he had an agenda and looking for clickbait â and serves up quotes that end up dominating and reinforcing the doom and gloom.
Chris
@WereBear:
I remember going to see Paul Krugman speak at a local bookstore about ten years ago, and one of the things he said that stayed with me is that this generation for the most part will never make up for everything they lost in the Great Recession – the years of joblessness, student debt, etc. I’ve certainly found that to be true. I’m doing okay now and have been for a couple years, but there was still a lost decade after the Great Recession during which I was completely treading water, and that’s not something you can make up just because things finally started going well at some point.
germy
@John S.:
If it bleeds, it leads. If it healed, the record’s sealed.
Spanky
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:Â Don’t fool yourself. They already hated you.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
@John S.:
@germy:
The media problem is obviously a large part of it. But there also seems to be a problem in our ability to get positive messages out to ourselves. It’s strange to me that the right has mastered social media to get out their message, but we still struggle with it.
Cameron
@germy: I dunno. Typing “Yoyoyo, sweet cheeks! Check THIS shit out!” online doesn’t have quite the panache of loudly stating it (with appropriate display) in public.
Omnes Omnibus
I agree with you. It may seem like a small difference to some, but I believe that the effect of each statement is massively different.
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: After the Infrastrucure bill passed, I saw Porter tweeting about the bill’s benefits to the nation and her district. Other Progressive Caucus members like Neguse, Escobar, and Raskin did also. They did not like the decoupling of this bill and the BBB bill, but these are pragmatic people who understood that that the Infrastructure bill was a good one.
Chris
@Betty Cracker:
More the latter than the former, I suspect. The media works very very hard to keep us all on a certain narrative. It’s not that people are choosing to live in bubbles that they’re comfortable with, it’s that you have to go out of your way to get out of the main bubble.
My main beef with the average Democratic voter is that no matter how many egregious breaches of trust the media commits in how it portrays the political scene, most of them never seem to wise up and start approaching them with distrust.
Mike in NC
I got a shipment of weed yesterday. Much better than mistletoe.
WaterGirl
@Baud:
And this is why I love you, Baud!
Hoodie
@Baud: The right’s message is relentlessly negative, which plays particularly well when you have media that is habitually cynical. Progressives and liberals are generally trying to make things better, which can imply that there’s a problem and sets you up to be criticized when you can’t deliver (usually because of conservative sabotage, but that gets ignored). Liberal and progressive messaging may have been easier when “march of progress” type messaging was popular, but that kind of thing has fallen out of favor. The whole post Vietnam era was tough on that type of progressive messaging.
Cameron
@Omnes Omnibus: Agree – I think “success builds on success” not only sounds better but makes more sense than “success builds on failure.”
WaterGirl
@Chris: Appreciate the update. Â You’ll have to let us know whether you get the offer, and whether you’ll take it.
Percysowner
The Atlantic published this positive article. Biden Won Big With a Bad Hand
They talk about Manchin as well
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: I suppose you know the trick of saying “hurry” over and over in a happy tone of voice when they assume the position and the whole time they are pooping, right?
Pretty soon, “hurry” in a happy voice = prompt pooping in response.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Did you know that she just moved back to NOLA and is happily ensconced in her old job?
Hoping to see lamh, who is surely no longer 36, back here soon.
Baud
@WaterGirl: I thought you loved me for my good looks.
@Hoodie:
IMHO then we’re toast. I don’t think there is any other type of liberal or progressive messaging that has a chance to gain a large following among American voters.
@Percysowner:
I take a little issue with that because it’s apples and oranges to some extent, but I agree with the rest of the excerpt. Thanks for posting.
Baud
@WaterGirl: I did not hear that. Wow.
Cameron
Bit of a surprise – I thought The Guardian was a sort-of liberal/progressive/what-have-you newspaper, but most of its headlines today look like something from Our Liberal Media. Except, of course, for the Japanese lickable TV screen. Now that’s news you can use.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: Someone needs to start interviewing people in WV, mentioning Manchin’s comment about how they would spend the BBB money on drugs and then asking them how various parts of BBB would improve their lives.
Bonus if the interviewer also asks how they feel about Joe Manchin voting against benefits for those with black lung disease.
If there is a BJ peep who is out of work and would like to go to WV, interview folks after Christmas and video the interviews, I would help fund that!
artem1s
@SFAW:Â â
Haven’t you heard? You are a neo-liberal. All of us who voted for Hillary and Biden and kept Bernie from saving the country (he would have won, totally) are the real problem with America – we are WORSE than TFG. This week it’s because Biden won’t wipe out all the student debt with one swipe of his pen.
WaterGirl
@germy: I might actually buy some stamps again. Â Those are cute!
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Maybe it’s as simple as messaging is always easier when you’re trying to reach a homogeneous audience. Policy too.
Betty Cracker
@WaterGirl: I say “good boy” in a happy tone when toileting occurs outside and “that’s disappointing” in a Susan Collins voice when we have an indoor accident.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: Almost certainly true, especially about policy. The GOP base doesn’t care one lick about policy. It must be nice for their politicians.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Merry Christmas! :-)
As for your good looks, that never hurts!
Cameron
@WaterGirl: It certainly worked for me. Hell, now all somebody has to do is look at their watch, and I’m down and brown.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: Ha! Â When he’s just a bit older, maybe all you will have to do is furrow your brow to express disappointment, and you won’t have to say anything at all.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
I was wondering about her the other day, and WG kindly brought me up to date:
I miss her too.
Subsole
@Kay: What kills me about them is that they know they aren’t even good for that.
As you pointed out in a thread yesterday: they don’t take calls anymore. They don’t have an ombudsman. They don’t take complaints anywhere except twitter.
If they had any faith at all in their product, they wouldn’t make it so hard to criticize. They wouldn’t wall themselves off from feedback.
As you so often say: sloppy, sloppy work. They know full well their output says nothing kind about itself.
WaterGirl
@Cameron: hahaha
I wonder if that would work for potty training a kid?
cain
mrmoshpotato
@Cameron:
I imagine all TV screens are lickable. I haven’t tried, but ya know – tongue, screen…
Baud
@mrmoshpotato: Everything is lickable.
artem1s
@Baud:Â â
I spent 15 years working in the jewelry industry – high end custom design – and high end sales. The one thing we could always count on around the holidays was another OMG article, TV expose about an increase in smash and grab crimes (its the holidays, theft is always up) and/or a hit piece on making sure your jeweler wasn’t swapping out your diamond for a CZ. They were both a pain in the ass and meant only headaches for store traffic during the most important season for our store’s bottom line. They were always a sure fire bet to get the attention of readers and viewers though.
mrmoshpotato
@Betty Cracker:
Sounds like animal abuse.
SiubhanDuinne
@Betty Cracker:
I really like Jayapal. She was on Rachelâs show Monday night, and OâDonnellâs show last night. They both refer to her as âMSNBCâs Official Optimist.â Sheâs sunny and positive without ever dipping into Pollyannaish delusions about what weâre facing. I like her a lot.
Hoodie
@Baud: Don’t misunderstand, I wish that kind of messaging could have a resurgence. Part of the problem is that a good part of the American public has become really cynical, distrustful and addicted to a kind of consumerist whingeing. I’m not talking about groups with legitimate causes, just general assholes who like to complain even when they don’t have much of a reason to complain. The media cultivates that.  Cable “news” can be godawful in that respect, countless talking heads relentlessly bitching.  You can’t go on a freaking sports site without running into someone bitching about politics. Just today, was on a site dedicated to one of the CFP teams, and some winger was bloviating about Biden being a coward with respect to CFP covid protocols, as if Biden sets the protocols for the CFP.
Brachiator
All of which reinforces the point that the judgment of pundits (“Biden’s failed agenda!!!”) and polling (Biden polls more negative than tepid tap water) don’t tell the whole story, or even an accurate story.
Yeah, I remember the $1,400 stimulus payments. These are the ones that some activist Democrats screamed had to be $2,000 or they were worthless. The American people disagreed.
I will also through in that even though some of the timing of last minute and past the last minute tax law adjustments for tax year 2020 were hard to deal with, they worked exceedingly well at helping people. This is especially true of the change which allowed a partial exclusion of unemployment compensation, and the suspension of recapture of excess Premium Tax credit amounts.
And one small change that may have had outsized effects. People who were affected by Covid were allowed to take an early distribution of retirement benefits without having to pay a penalty. They could also spread the distributions over three years. This may have led to a significant increase in early retirements, which may have some long term impact on the labor market.
There are many good stories about the economic impact of Biden’s pandemic and economic policy, but you often have to look beyond your favorite, or even hated, talking heads and commentators to get to it.
ETA: It is damned unfortunate that neither Manchin nor the dopes he has advising him know how to look beyond stale and worthless views of the economy.
germy
@SiubhanDuinne:
I saw Jayapal on the new version of “Firing Line” and Margaret Hoover looked nervous interviewing her. Hoover usually displays a smug confidence while subtly weaponizing conservative talking points against liberal guests. It didn’t work this time.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: “I can taste the Korean war!” -Gene Belcher (Bob’s Burgers)
Baud
@Hoodie: Yes, I agree with you completely. I’ll add that, even though the left-of-center is not supposed to be anti-government, I find that the theme of too many conversations on our side (and not just the Rose Twitter types) is “not this government,” as if some better government will spring from the head of Zeus if people complain enough. I think it has the opposite effect of making Republican attacks on government look more credible.
Ruckus
@Kay:
Those aren’t men, they are robutts.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
@germy:
I have also become a fan this year. I hope she can build on it. I’m concerned that Manchin’s actions, if he doesn’t relent, will hurt her positive, team-playing approach.
SiubhanDuinne
@germy:
Jayapal knows her stuff.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Balloon Juice After Dark sure came early this week.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Well, I think sheâs probably pretty hard-nosed behind the scenes, and I suspect the various conversations with Manchin have included some raised voices, but Iâm delighted sheâs staying positive in her public appearances. Sheâs a great antidote to the pervasive Eeyoreism.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne: Yes, I didn’t mean she would change. I meant that she will be seen as less credible or less of a power broker.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, …
“Hatred of politics”??
I like dick_nixon, especially about baseball, but he too often has particular biases that he carries like a chip on his shoulder and they get in the way of sensible analysis. For instance, he thought Harris would be a disastrous pick as VP.
These two tweets a full of stupid.
Obama had a gut feel for in-the-trenches that few seem to appreciate. He also understood that politics is “the art of the possible”, but what’s possible can change with concerted effort, much more than most. (Biden also has an innate feel for politics, but of a different kind.)
What was the “deep bench” (of potential successors) that FDR created? That Truman created?
How about Eisenhower? Was Nixon his “deep bench”?
How about Kennedy? What was his, except his blood relations?
How about Nixon? Was Agnew and Ford his “deep bench”?
Carter and Mondale?
What about Reagan? GHWB was his “deep bench”? Sure, he had hangers-on like Kemp and others who had the aspirations, but he was more of a 3rd string guy.
W and Cheney??!
And on and on.
Now Stalin / Khrushchev / Brezhnev / Andropov / Chernenko / Gorbachev ! That was a “deep bench”!!1
(groucho-roll-eyes.gif)
Once someone reaches the big chair in the USA, they’ve got more important things to do than try to create a “deep bench”, and Obama did as much or more than most. OFA did a lot of good.
And if Biden stays healthy (and there’s every indication he will – his parents lived to 87 and 93), then it’s just navel gazing anyway.
Politics doesn’t work from the top down. Candidates have to have the fire in their belly, to want to succeed and win no matter the obstacles. Democrats have lots and lots of people like that…
Grr…
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Another Scott:
The biggest harm to our bench comes from people not voting in off year elections.
germy
Another Scott
@Brachiator: Speaking of the bad judgment of pundits, …
(via CharlesPPierce)
Cheers,
Scott.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Yes, quite possible. A lot depends, of course, on how the media cover and frame her.
Baud
@germy:
“But I do read Balloon Juice for Covid news and pet posts.”
Betty Cracker
@Another Scott: I agree the “deep bench” thing is bullshit. It’s not out of line to speculate about successors when the POTUS will be 82 next election day, IMO. I also think it’s legit to question whether Harris is ready to assume the presidency right now or will be in the next cycle if Biden declines to run. I think she is, but it’s not an outrageous question.
L85NJGT
@Another Scott:
??ââïž
There were 20 candidates on the dais for the first Democratic presidential debate.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
This is beyond stupid and your challenges are on point. Also, for example, Reagan ran against the GOP “bench.”
But I have recently seen some conservative pundits foolishly believing that they have some advantage looking ahead to 2024. But they mainly cite certified noisy losers like Ted Cruz, Chris Christie, Marco Rubio, and Mittens Romney or Trump-lite authoritarian asswipe DeSantis. And of course there is The Biggest Loser Trump.
This might be the anti-bench. But it is deep.
germy
@Baud:
“I also sent a photo for the pet calendar, but Watergirl said Greenwald didn’t qualify.”
Soprano2
@Kay: It’s because no matter what Democrats do to help people, they can always think of something else that could have been done. Forgive some student loan debt, why aren’t they forgiving more? Push back student loan payments to May 2022, why aren’t they just forgiving it all? It’s like all they know how to do is bitch and moan. Kind of like the Covid threads here, even good news is framed as “but what about the bad things about this?”. There can’t ever be any good news re: Covid.
Betty Cracker
@SiubhanDuinne: &Â @Baud: One thing I find refreshing about Jayapal’s approach is that she keeps it real. I have no idea how that plays politically — most politicians don’t admit to doubt and second-guessing, and they have good reason for that. But Jayapal said she had second-guessed giving up the leverage of the infrastructure vote but decided it had become untenable anyway and that their best play was to trust that Manchin wouldn’t screw Biden over, knowing it was possible he might. she said in retrospect she believes he would have blown BBB up if she’d refused to whip for the BIF earlier. That’s probably true.
Soprano2
@Kay: And yet somehow everyone who has never been a schoolteacher is allowed to criticize everything they are doing. Strange how that works, isn’t it?
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
History tells us that there is no way to know how ready a person might be to become president. The conventional wisdom was that Harry Truman was a mere placeholder, and would be a disaster as president.
Right now, once you get past all the polite punditry, the biggest objection to Harris is that she is a woman, and a black woman. For purposes of puerile punditry her Indian ancestry does not count. And the biggest objection to Mayor Pete is that he is gay.
Soprano2
@schrodingers_cat: On the last “international news hour” of the year on 1A this morning, all three panelists said that their most vivid memory of Biden’s foreign policy this year is the very first day of the evacuation (because they all mentioned the idiots trying to cling to the wings of the plane, how come no one ever says how stupid those people were?), and what a disaster that whole situation was. There was zero mention of how it was an agreement that TFG negotiated that Biden was fulfilling. That’s their impression of Biden and the U.S., not anything else he’s done. They mentioned that he normalized America’s relations with other countries, but brushed that off as if it were almost nothing. I swear, they want him to fail and TFG back!
Suzanne
@Soprano2:
To be fair, the big interests always get 100% of what they ask for. Itâs fucking tiresome to genuinely need transformation and instead get incrementalism. I get that much of the very online left can be Debbie-Downer-y in tone, and thatâs annoying, but the world they would create if they could would be much better and fairer for people.
As opposed to Joe Manchin and his repulsive daughter.
Kay
@Soprano2:
It’s just obnoxious. I thought our current theme was they were public servants? Now you can’t criticize or analyze their work at all or that’s “defunding the police”?
They have a ten billion dollar budget. How much more do they need? How’s it going with the ten billion? Getting a lot of crime fighting done? Or no?
Matt McIrvin
@Soprano2: With COVID it’s at least possible to justify it on precautionary-principle grounds. There’s a cost of overestimating the harm, yes, but the cost of underestimating it is potentially megadeath on the order of nuking a city.
Soprano2
@Kay: I think one reason those “leftists” hate it is because it proves that we don’t have to have everything they want in order to make people’s lives better. They have a very “all or nothing” mindset, where incremental progress is bad. We need everything they want or to do nothing in their view. It’s dumb and not how things work, but it’s what they espouse all the time. If Biden won’t forgive $50,000 worth of student loan debt for everyone in their view he shouldn’t do anything about it at all!
Kay
@Soprano2:
I just think there’s broad strokes and then there’s specifics. The covid relief was broad stroke liberal. That’s the direction they want us to go. If all they do it criticize the specifics they’re ignoring a trend they would like, and want to continue. They need “general narrative setters” or something.
So instead of “this Boston neighborhood didn’t get enough rent subsidies- betrayal!” it would be “we support rent subsidies, here’s where they went well”.
Honestly it’s kind of boring too. I don’t think they’ll reach the general distracted masses with these masses of tiny facts.
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: I’ve noticed that Democratic Caucus members have been reticent when it comes to arguing publically about the Infrastructure and BBB bills. It could be that word went out to cool it while the BBB bill was in play, as it still seems to be. I think members also learned from their rancorous blowup over emergency border funding in July of 2017.
Suzanne
@Soprano2:
They would be more open to incrementalism if it didnât generally result in getting a few crumbs and then never getting around to the rest of the loaf.
Their point â and on this I think they are probably correct â is that getting people to feel positively about government entails doing big, cohesive, meaningful things. Incrementalism produces a doom loop of sorts, where the lack of ability to enact those sort of big changes makes a segment of people think that the government doesnât really give a fuck about them and therefore why show the fuck up? I am as aware of anyone of the fallacy of that thinking, but it does indeed feel like my house is on fire, the Democrats fight and fight to get me a squirt gun, and then seem confused why Iâm not excited about it and I appear ungrateful.
Kay
@Soprano2:
Online Lefties sort of triumphantly picked apart the BBB child care subsidy and found it wanting. Okay, their joy at how they thought it sucked is annoying, so they should maybe look at why they always seem to be thrilled that things suck, but do they want child care subsidies? So advocate for “child care subsidies”. Broad strokes. They don’t have any.
That’s a critics role, what they do. Is that what they are? Because I thought they had some bigger idea.
Brachiator
@Soprano2:
Complaints about the evacuation are just as stupid as every story about Hillary Clinton’s emails.
To be blunt, evacuations when a nation is not the victor are usually problematic. Evacuations when a nation is the victor are often problematic.
The Afghanistan story that has been mainly ignored is exactly why the entire goddam Afghanistan mission was a failure.
Also, people and pundits forget that Trump promised and initiated the pullout from Afghanistan. But at rallies, even this bloviating asswipe pretends that he would have been tough and kicked Afghan ass for years to come.
Also, when you get past the bullshit, there is not a single Republican member of Congress who seriously advocates returning to Afghanistan.
And the world tries its best to ignore the sad fact that the religious extremists now controlling the country are incompetent, and the country is in danger of collapse.
Soprano2
Boy, ITA with this. Even I thought this would be mostly over by December 2021; I didn’t anticipate the amount of people who would resist the vaccines. Tell me you aren’t disheartened by hearing health officials telling you that your highly anticipated get-togethers with family for Christmas really should be cancelled because of a new Covid variant, after you spent last Christmas calling or doing Zoom sessions with your family. That variant isn’t Biden’s fault, but because he’s president people will tend to blame him for the message that’s ruining their holidays.
taumaturgo
This is a different and valid take. If not for the progressive caucus, BBB would have been strange in the crib by the corporate incrementalist that had no compunction killing the developing bill. One must admit that money and power will always have their hand on the scales.
WhatsMyNym
At this point you might as well subscribe to The Financial Times (UK) which has opinion pieces like this “Free Lunch. The case for a universal basic income
SiubhanDuinne
Sad to hear that the wonderful novelist, essayist, and memoirist Joan Didion has died, aged 87. She was a (sometimes brutally) honest and clear-eyed writer. May she RIP.
Soprano2
@Chris: The same was true of my generation – I graduated into the teeth of the 1980 – 1983 extremely bad recession, when inflation and unemployment were both around 10%, and I guarantee you it hurt my whole working career. At least we didn’t have massive debt for college in the mix – we still had Pell Grants and college was still affordable.
Brachiator
@Kay:
Based on what?
Hell, I defy these people, and most Balloon Juice commentors, to explain the child care credit in place for this tax year without looking up the details. It will be generous compared to prior years.
I think that the Biden administration has been judicious in trying to help most taxpayers, and so has tried to spread out various tax proposals.
To my mind he has failed in one area. The Earned income tax credit should be higher for singles and married couples without children.
I would happily trade this for any further increase in child care subsidies.
Kay
@taumaturgo:
Not BBB. The covid relief. It’s liberal. It’s the most liberal government intervention in my lifetime and it’s a success on just about every level. Instead of pumping in money at the top they put it in at the bottom and it worked. People spent it and it created a whole cycle where the economy is really cooking.
So, an enterprising Lefty could say something like “this is what a government that takes care of citizens and invests in their well being looks like- it benefits the whole economy”. It does.
They could have done it differently. They could have done some complex scheme with tax cuts and subsidies to big business and feared the inflation boogeyman so much they didn’t do jack shit for regular people and not pushed it all the way down to thousands of dollars to individuals, but they didn’t. They went in a different direction- in YOUR direction. So you would want to point out why that’s successful and why parts of it should be maintained. But there’s almost no mention of it on the Left. You went immediately to BBB when this HUGE liberal subsidy had just happened.
Biden pumped more into public schools than any President ever has. Any. Ever. That’s without BBB.
gene108
@Baud:
First, conservatives have mastered talking points media saturation. They have no problem repeating the same thing over and over, whether itâs a Senator, a Governor, Tucker Carlson, or a Momâs Demand Liberty (or whatever itâs called) volunteer screaming at a school board meeting. The Senator will repeat the exact same points as the person at the school board meeting. I remember seeing this earlier this year.
Second, conservatives are shameless and ruthless. Their only ethos is win at all costs. Thereâs no self-recrimination or self-reflection over leaving a public option out of Obamacare, which was an issue amongst some on our side, for example.
They do not ever admit they ever made a mistake. It doesnât matter how catastrophic their decisions are, they donât admit it, donât care about the lives lost, and have an entire media apparatus designed to obfuscate their screw ups.
Third, our side spends a lot of time on self-reflection and self-recrimination about what we couldâve done better. The recently passed infrastructure bill doesnât count as a win for our priorities, because BBB didnât pass which was even better and not a give away to government contractors.
Fourth, thereâs no hive mind saturation of the same talking points. Every Democratic Senator, governor, and person at a school board meeting will say whatever they want, with no coordination.
AOC with her large social media platform has taken to âI told you so, weâd be betrayed in BBB, after passing BIFâ, instead of talking up the benefits of BIF.
It maybe that Republicans come from a corporate or professional background, where group think and conformity are prioritized versus Democrats who come from different backgrounds. IDK ?ââïž
If Democrats need to act more like Republicans, itâs in message discipline and always talking yourself up and not publicly airing reservations.
schrodingers_cat
My beautiful ginger cat Inji is no more. She was 18 years and 6 months old. We had her since she was a wee kitten.
Here is the first picture I took of her
Kay
@Brachiator:
Child care. In BBB.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: I’m so sorry. That’s rough.
hueyplong
@schrodingers_cat: What a good-looking kitten. May that ginger’s memory be a blessing.
Fair Economist
@WaterGirl:
Yesyesyesyesyesyes!
Fair Economist
@schrodingers_cat: Sorry to hear that she’s gone; happy to hear of your many great years together.
James E Powell
@SFAW:
Agreed. I’ve seen the people you describe called Purity Left, Professional Left, and True Left, but we need a completely different label to disassociate them from the actual lefty people who consistently vote for Democrats, volunteer & donate in campaigns, and never for Nader or Stein or stay home or say things like Trump would be better than Hillary Clinton, etc.
Layer8Problem
@WaterGirl: At the post office the other day I jumped on a set of The Snowy Day stamps, the Ezra Jack Keats children’s book. I had that when I was a tiny tot, and I read it to my little kid years later. The kid knew it as “the Peter book.” Boy that gave me some happy memories.
Geminid
@Kay: The online left is also notieably silent about universal pre-K. That is a needed and consequential initiative but they hardly seem to care. Sometimes I think that for all their concern for The Working Class, they don’t really care about actual working class people.
Betty Cracker
@schrodingers_cat: So sorry to hear that. It’s especially rough since you recently lost your other cat. :(
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Its rough. I haven’t yet recovered from the loss of my boss cat this June.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: Thanks. I have been a mess since June.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
I lost my two dogs within a few months of each other a couple of years ago. The place seemed so empty afterwards.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: How did you cope?
Brachiator
@Kay:
Since Manchin blew everything up, will the Democrats stick with compromise amounts or go back and revisit details?
Otherwise, in the real world, taxpayers have what is available for this tax year.
Which looks pretty damn good, and might increase vocal public support for BBB.
Soprano2
@Suzanne: But the way to encourage people to vote for Democrats so they can get more isn’t to go online and whine and cry about all the things you didn’t get; it’s to promote what you did get, talk about how it made people’s lives better, and encourage people to vote for Democrats by saying “Here’s the great things we got, if you vote for us again we’ll get you even more”. The very online left does the opposite, which doesn’t make me want to vote for them.
I just listened to “The New Abnormal” with Dr. Eric Topol as one of the guests. It was a non-stop whinefest about all the things the administration should have done or should have known or should be doing now about Covid, about how much they’ve failed, and so on. Very little about the good things they’ve actually done, and these are people who are supposed to be on Biden’s side! Can you imagine any Republican pundit of any kind doing that? I’m not saying that the Biden administration is beyond criticism, but this constant whining about how they aren’t exactly perfect and didn’t have a crystal ball that could predict Omicron two or three months ago and respond accordingly is getting mighty tiresome.
James E Powell
@Baud:
Agree on this. Make a list of those 57 and it becomes pretty obvious what Obama was up against.
The list includes Mark Begich, Mark Pryor, Blanche Lincoln, Evan Bayh, Claire McCaskill, Max Baucus, Nebraska Ben Nelson, Kent Conrad, Byron Dorgan, Tim Johnson, and Jim Webb. Not exactly a parade of liberals. It’s a miracle anything other than tax cuts got done.
Brachiator
@Soprano2:
No one could have predicted the Omicron variant. And the world is goddam lucky that it appears not to be as deadly as earlier variants.
Also note that efforts around the world to prevent the spread of Omicron by restricting travel, etc., were spectacularly useless.
Soprano2
You know, after awhile it’s not, because the constant message is that the pandemic is never going to be over, everyone should wear a KN-95 mask all the time including every minute they’re outdoors and should mostly stay indoors in their house forever, period, no matter whether we have vaccines or not. God forbid anyone go to a store or a restaurant for more than a couple of minutes, and if there is any good news about something re: Covid we have to immediately shit on it by imagining all the bad things that could happen instead. It gets mighty wearying after awhile, and I’m on the side of being more cautious!
I guess my trigger was the immediate doomsaying over the new Covid drugs, that even though we have them they could mean nothing but bad things.
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Scott: Twitter Nixon is better at analyzing the ins and outs of GOP internal politics than looking at the Dems. Â Surprisingly, just like Nixon himself.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@James E Powell: and of course, 165 pounds of spite named Joe Lieberman
Brachiator
@taumaturgo:
Nonsense, but keep believing this crap.
Soprano2
@Suzanne: Perhaps you should meditate on the fact that Republicans want to set you and everyone like you on fire and let you burn to death. They would be happy if everyone who calls themselves “liberal” disappeared from the face of the earth.
James E Powell
@Suzanne:
As Tripper put it:
And even, and even if we win, if we win, HAH! Even if we win! Even if we play so far over our heads that our noses bleed for a week to ten days. Even if God in Heaven above comes down and points his hand at our side of the field. Even if every man, woman and child held hands together and prayed for us to win, it just wouldn’t matter, because all the really good looking girls would still go out with the guys from Mohawk cause they’ve got all the money!Â
I’m afraid we will always be fighting uphill. Even more reason to celebrate our marginal and infrequent wins. We are not the Washington Generals, but we are a lesser Big Ten team that hasn’t been to a significant bowl game since the 60s.
Soprano2
@Brachiator: On the extremely online left they are advocating for the U.S. to drop all the sanctions against the Taliban government to help the people of Afghanistan. Yeah, that’s what I want, to help the Taliban stay in power!
WaterGirl
@germy:
I wasn’t at all certain that Greenwald had his shots, so I stand by my decision not to put the  others at risk.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: I don’t know. Just one day at a time.
Chris
@Suzanne:
I think a lot of them also wish we kept the actual reality in mind as much as the “political reality.”
In 2009, plenty of people warned that the stimulus was too small (Krugman being the leading voice that I recall). They were right, and as a result, we got fucking destroyed in the 2010 midterms.
Betty Cracker
@Soprano2: I get that, but “the other people are worse” is a lousy enticement. I mean, it’s TRUE! If you’re a mature grown-up who weighs pros and cons and makes the best of the realistic choices available, it will be dispositive. But there’s a reason Ford ads don’t say “buy a Ford because Chevy sucks” or vice versa.
Soprano2
@Brachiator: Someone needs to tell these health people that, then. I’ve heard it a couple of times in the past few days, “Why didn’t they look ahead and know this was coming and do “x” “y” and “z” thing I think would help?” seems to be the refrain. It’s really breathtakingly dumb. That stupid 1A show on Wednesday was a good example of the stupidity I’m hearing.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
“Four out of five voters prefer Democrats over the other leading party!”
#IWish
Chris
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m so sorry. RIP Inji.
Brachiator
@Soprano2:
The extremely online left are a bunch of fools.
People were hopeful that the Taliban might have their shit together. But the Taliban cannot see past their extreme adherence to what they think Islam means and form a workable society.
They also are not seeking or getting any help from other Islamic regimes.
We could remove sanctions and even send tons of direct aid. There is no guarantee that it would be put to good use.
Soprano2
@Betty Cracker: I know that, but I guess today the whining that it’s never enough is getting on my last nerve. I understand “why can’t we get what we want too?”, because I feel the same way, but I’m not out there shitting on what we did get and only complaining that it should be so much more. There is never going to be a world where wealthy people don’t have somewhat of an upper hand, as much as it’s hard to accept that it’s true. We have to show people that we can make their lives better, and if all we’re doing is constantly whining about how we didn’t get enough, why should people vote for our candidates? If we’re constantly doomsaying about Covid no matter what advances have been made, after awhile people will start tuning us out. It’s a real problem, the fact that Democrats have a hard time trumpeting their accomplishments.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Soprano2: the other night, after Biden rolled his eyes at a reporter who said, “why is this taking so long?”, Chris Hayes said, “We’ve known about Omicron for four weeks!”
Clearly there are problems with FDA/CDC/Whoever The Fuck approval of at-home tests, and I don’t know the laws/regulations, but that’s a battleship that’s hard to turn around
Chris
@Brachiator:
The Taliban just became the owners of the world’s largest source of illegal narcotics, which makes them basically the underworld version of an OPEC member. If they actually want to spend money helping their people, they should already have plenty of it on hand.
Soprano2
@Brachiator: I hate to say it, but I want the Taliban government to fail spectacularly. It did last time, I want it to happen again. I don’t want anyone propping them up. It’s kind of a bitter opinion, but the people of Afghanistan voted after 20 years of us trying to help them in some way that they would rather have the Taliban as their government, as demonstrated by how fast the supposed “real” government collapsed, so let them lie in the bed they have made for awhile. Why should we help them out of it? I know we did a lot of bad stuff there, but we did a lot of good stuff too, and they seem to have rejected all of that in favor of a government that wants to take them back to the 10th century in almost every way. I want that to fail. It’s like saying that the people of Germany had no responsibility for Hitler and the Nazis. Lots of those people supported their takeover!
Brachiator
@Soprano2:
This is not coming from health people, at least not good ones.
This recent interview with Dr Fauci had good questions and straightforward answers about the Omicron variant.
J R in WV
@Betty Cracker:Â â
I’m sure you do. IT was 16 here last night, but warming up some this afternoon.
Chris
@Soprano2:
Unfortunately, I’m not sure there even is such a thing as “failing.” Put it like this, the South was an absolute disaster area for about seventy years after the Civil War, but a critical mass of white people were fanatically in favor of the KKK-adjacent authorities, so the South largely remained a failed state. It started to turn around in the 1930s when the New Deal started injecting major doses of Yankee money in there, and they didn’t exactly say no to that, but as soon as that started coming with cultural changes in the 1960s, they turned immediately against it. Some states have gotten better since then, but on the flip side of them are places like Mississippi which remain desperately poor and largely okay with the desperate poverty as long as Those People are kept In Their Place.
I can very much see a critical mass of Pashtun being all-in behind the Taliban enough to achieve a similar result there. “Are we poor and desperate? Maybe. Are the Tajiks, Uzbeks, and Hazaras in their place, not to mention the uppity women? Fine, then I don’t care if we’re poor and desperate.”
Soprano2
@Chris: Maybe, but the Taliban are getting a sense of exactly how much of their country was propped up by foreign money (most of it), and saying “Why aren’t the pundits who were so concerned about the Afghan people in August advocating for the U.S. to drop sanctions and let the Taliban government have a buttload of free money” is not the way to help the Afghan people in the long run. I hate like hell how many people who didn’t want the Taliban in power have to suffer, but I think it’s inevitable.
Chris
@Soprano2:
Oh, I’m not disagreeing with you. Like I said, I think the Taliban already have plenty of money on hand that could be used to help their people if they were actually going to, so it’s doubtful to me that any additional money they get from us is going to be put to good use.
I’m just saying that there may be no such thing as the Taliban becoming so dysfunctional and Afghanistan so poverty-stricken that the regime will collapse from that. (Especially true since Afghanistan was never very well-developed in the first place, so the expectations aren’t high to begin with).
Matt McIrvin
@Omnes Omnibus: Everything Twitter Nixon says about Democrats makes sense if you think of him as a Bernie Sanders fanboy. Which for someone posing as Richard Nixon is kind of odd, but I always got the sense that he left the really Nixonian persona behind a while ago.
Brachiator
@Soprano2:
If the Taliban succeed, people will be hurt. If the Taliban fail, people will be hurt.
The people did not have much of a chance to vote for anything. The Taliban took over.
The US propped up a government which was not accomplishing a damn thing, and which was also failing the people.
I have no idea what the answer might be. But I know that it is wrong and useless to blame the people for picking the wrong leaders.
Brachiator
@Chris:
It’s not about having money or spending it. The Taliban are as incompetent as the regime they replaced at running a government. They know how to shoot guns. That’s about it.
James E Powell
@Brachiator:
The main question and maybe the only question for us is: Are the people in Afghanistan better off with us gone?
If the answer is yes, I think we’re done talking about it.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
And it’s depth is full of something.
It’s possible I’m too polite to say what it’s full of…..
J R in WV
@WaterGirl:
Well, I surely hope that with her new graduate degree she’s making at least a little more money in her old job than she was before. And also, too, I’m not surprised, I spent quite a bit of time in Houston TX before my dad died there (2000-2004), and I would far rather be in NOLA than anywhere in TX whatsoever.
I hope she is happy and tickled to be in New Orleans!!! and that she comes back to Balloon Juice at least once in a while.
Chris
@Brachiator:
Fair. But that also argues against releasing more funds to them – they’re not going to suddenly become good at distributing the money just because there’s more of it.
Brachiator
@Chris:
Aid is not necessarily money.
The problem is how to get aid to the people, which is not the same thing as aiding the Taliban.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Matt McIrvin:
Yup. I enjoy the whole schtick, especially when he goes after Rubio, but you can see the Bernista behind the make pretty often
Brachiator
@James E Powell:
I don’t think this is the main question, the secondary question, or any question worth asking.
Chris
@Brachiator:
Also fair. But I guess then the question is – realistically speaking, are we able to send enough aid of whatever kind to the people who need it in Afghanistan, or is there someone in Afghanistan to receive that aid that we can realistically trust to distribute it to the people who need it?
I realize there are plenty of aid programs that find ways to allow local warlords to skim off the top, or otherwise come to arrangements with them, because that’s just a cost of doing business and at least that way a significant amount of aid still gets through, even if not all of it. By the same token, I know there are also times when the situation is so out of control and the aid is so unlikely to make it to the people who need it that people basically have no choice but to close up shop. My impression of Afghanistan under the Taliban is that it’s… on the “abandon hope” end of things even by Third World Failed State standards.
Percysowner
@schrodingers_cat: I am so, so sorry. Losing them after that long is so painful.
Inji was beautiful and very loved.
Soprano2
@Brachiator: I guess I mean “voted” by their actions. If you read about it, you realize that there are substantial parts of Afghanistan where the Taliban really never lost power or much control at all – it was only in the larger cities that much progress was made. If they don’t want any help from us or any other foreign country, well then they’ve gotten their wish. Let them appeal to the Taliban for help and jobs, or ask Saudi Arabia to bail them out, or whatever other wealthy Gulf country likes their backwards-towards-anyone-who-isn’t-male-and-Muslim attitude toward life.
Suzanne
@Soprano2:
I am aware of this, and I vote in every election, volunteer, donate, and talk about these issues with the people I encounter.
But I also understand why people (good people who believe the same things I believe) lose faith in the power of government to be a force for good. And, at some point, talking about what you did get without noting that you didnât get everything you needed feelsâŠ. icky. It feels like a sales pitch. It feels dishonest.
What I really think the Very Online Left should do is approach this more with the language of a lifetime of struggle. Like, “we will not get there in our lifetime, but with your help and our efforts, we will get closer”. That would allow them to be more graceful both in victory and defeat.
ButâŠ. fuck. Things are not good, and the Very Online Left is annoying, but they are not wrong. Remember who the real enemy is.
J R in WV
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m so sorry to hear that. We love them so much… take care, stay safe, Happy Holidays …
ETA: What a cutie! no wonder you loved that beautiful kitty~!~
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Same thing this year for me, it’s too damn quiet here.
@schrodingers_cat: Condolences, I know the feeling.
Suzanne
@Chris:
Exactly right. Student loan forgiveness is a perfect example. If anything gets forgiven, I bet it will be some paltry sum that gets eaten up by the interest (which they wonât succeed in lowering or eliminating) or by taxes. And they likely wonât be successful in solving the problem at its root, which is that too many Americans cannot afford the education they need and want, and that taxpayers (who are also student loan repayers, BTW) need to pony up more. But then some of the Dems will act like its a great victory and that they did us all some great favor. And to an extent, theyâll be rightâŠ. they did what the “political reality” would permit, and it was still utterly inadequate. But do not piss on my leg and tell me itâs raining, or worse, get mad at me for complaining that Iâm still getting pissed on.
Brachiator
@Chris:
Also fair. But I guess then the question is â realistically speaking, are we able to send enough aid of whatever kind to the people who need it in Afghanistan, or is there someone in Afghanistan to receive that aid that we can realistically trust to distribute it to the people who need it?
Good questions. No good answers.
Parts of the world are suffering terribly. For example, Yemen.
But here is an odd but pleasant story out of Sri Lanka:
Maybe there might be some inventive solution to provide some assistance to Afghanistan. And note that I am not saying that the US is mainly responsible for offering assistance.
Omnes Omnibus
@Suzanne: An issue that is important to me is the abolition of the death penalty. For years though, I have had to vote for people who disagreed with me on it.  Because, even here on a liberal blog, we get a lot of people who say they oppose it but âŠ.  I have no choice but to swallow my disappointment time and time again because I canât put that one issue ahead of everything else.  Thatâs how politics works.  I anticipate an counter argument that the death penalty and student loans arenât the same, but it is important to me as a moral issue.
Suzanne
@Omnes Omnibus: I agree with you 110% on the death penalty.
I get how politics works. My point is that it isnât unreasonable to hate it.
Chris
@Suzanne:
It also isn’t unreasonable to get pissed off when Democrats come to you every two years at election season with hair-on-fire messages like “the Republicans are trying to kill you and everyone like you! This is the last chance of democracy! If you don’t vote, we’re all doomed!” and then once they’re actually in office, tell you “hey, sure, we haven’t accomplished anything about voting rights, we haven’t done anything to catch the people who ordered that coup last January, we haven’t added new states or new Supreme Court justices to balance the outrageously rigged system, we haven’t even changed arcane Senate procedures to make any progress on any of these fronts possible… But we passed an infrastructure bill! What more do you want, a cookiee? Jeez, you people are just so unreasonable!“
David ? âThe Establishmentâ? Koch
@James E Powell:Â â
Yikes you forgot Holy Joe Lieberman, DiFi, Mary Landrieu and Bernie undermining not based on policy but based on his personal grievances.
What a mess Obama had to deal with.
cain
@Percysowner:
Every one of those blue dogs crashed and burned. We don’t have any of them. You’d think that would be something to take note of.
cain
@WaterGirl:Â â
Isn’t it interesting that not a single reporter has hit a diner in WV to ask about what’s going on and what they feel?
Omnes Omnibus
@Chris: Actually, what I would say is get involved. Â If you really want your issues to be addressed show up when issues are being discussed. Â Volunteer and talk about why X is important to you. Â If you are handing out campaign lit with someone they will listen and you can put a human face on whatever the issue is.
sab
@cain: And Sherrod Brown was reelected in red red Ohio.
Geminid
@sab: And Sherrod Brown won by 300,000 votes. Tim Ryan may not be Sherrod Brown, but he doesn’t have to win by that much, just win.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@David ? âThe Establishmentâ? Koch: I hate his guts and liver but I don’t recall St Bernard being a big problem in Obama’s first two years, at all really if you discount his bluster about a primary in 2012, which you can do because his biggest platform in those days was Thom Hartmann’s radio show
Geminid
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Sanders’ remarks to Thom Hartman came sailing back like a boomerang in last year’s South Carolina primary, when a pro-Biden group replayed them in radio ads. I’ve always wondered how Hartman felt about this. Hartman strikes me as a goodhearted guy who probably wishes his other shows had been remembered instead.
Sanders wanted someone else to primary President Obama. He was himself up for reelection in 2012, and he wasn’t about to give up a better job than he had ever dreamed of. So it’s fitting that his remarks came whirling around nine years later and bonked him on the head.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Geminid: I always understood it that Bernie was looking for some kind of draft in 2012– “the People demand Me!”, but I formed that opinion after I came to hate him.
No bigger blunder the big name 2020 primary candidates (with the obvious exception) made than thinking the spirit of the party was with Bernie rather than Obama.
Geminid
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I would now regard Sanders as a humorous figure, the big gruff Saint Bernard whose bark is worse than his bite- except for all the damage he did in 2016. That was unacceptable to me, and I don’t blame the people who have more at stake than me, particularly women and immigrants, for hating his guts.
I was a little freaked out about Sanders going into last years primaries. By then I had read up on his life before he became a Congressman, and I could just see Karl Rove licking his ugly chops at the prospect of unloading Republican research on him. Sanders would have been crushed in a general election, and he would have taken Democratic Senators and representatives down with him. But after Sanders underperformed in Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada I was pretty sure he couldn’t win the nomination. Still, the result in South Carolina was a big relief.
I think of most of Sanders’ supporters as well meaning but misguided. He had a few people close to him that I really despise, though. I don’t think they believed in him like his regular supporters did. They knew he wasn’t hard enough, and lacked the ruthlessness to mount a scorched earth campaign or an Independent bid. For these people, Sanders was a Trojan Horse with which to take over the party, because he was popular in a way they never could be. They and their allies are still out doing what damage they can, but there is a good cohort of Democrats providing fierce pushback..
Geminid
@SFAW: It’s very late in the thread, but I did not respond well to your comment so I will get this off my chest. You complain about people bashing liberals. But if you read what I wrote fairly, you would see that I was criticizing people who bash liberals.
@Betty Cracker: The first commenter I was responding to expressed exasperation with criticisms of the Biden administration from the left. I was just providing an explaination for this, and I think an accurate one.
Along with the second commenter, you jumped to the conclusion that I was criticizing people in the liberal wing of the Democratic party, despite the plain meaning of what I wrote. Someone in this exchange may have had a one-track mindset, but the irony is that it wasn’t me.
Geminid
@Geminid: Correction. The Democratic Caucus blowup I spoke of was the last few days of June, first few days of July 2019, not 2017.