Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.

I was promised a recession.

Fight them, without becoming them!

“And when the Committee says to “report your income,” that could mean anything!

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

The jury literally has a bell they can ring to force Trump to show up on command. Greatest thing ever!

How can republicans represent us when they don’t trust women?

We won’t go back.

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

I’m just a talker, trying to find a channel!

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

There is no right way to do the wrong thing.

T R E 4 5 O N

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

The willow is too close to the house.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Let there be snark.

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Monday Evening Open Thread: No Matter How Cynical You Become…

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… It’s never enough to keep up. (Lily Tomlin)

I wondered why this news was being recirculated, since it originally broke back in late September, but:

Reader Interactions

101Comments

  3. 3.

    dmsilev

    In a  shocking turn of events that I’m sure will come as a complete surprise to all here, the guy who decided that a Christmas Eve phone call with a bunch of kids was the proper venue to tell Biden “Let’s go Brandon” and then claimed it was a joke…

    …did an interview with Steve Bannon in which he said that Trump was totally his President, should still be President, and the election was 100% stolen.

    Guess the “I was only joking” defense wasn’t working, so he’s switching back over to “fuck you”.

  4. 4.

    dmsilev

    @Suzanne: Tan is the proper color to wear while burning down a Christmas tree; the ash doesn’t show the way it would with black or navy.

  6. 6.

    MattF

    From Twitter: ‘The difference between Donald Trump and Jim Jones is that Trump would have charged for the Kool-Aid.’

  9. 9.

    Mike in NC

    Currently reading “Hoax: Donald Trump, Fox News, and the Dangerous Distortion of Truth” by Brian Stelter. One I finish it I’ll need a very long hot shower.

  10. 10.

    The Dangerman

    @dmsilev: Since it was Christmas Eve and the event was for Children, was this thing live-streamed for Kids? If so, what part of “not the right time” does this POS not understand?

  12. 12.

    Roger Moore

    @dmsilev:

    Guess the “I was only joking” defense wasn’t working, so he’s switching back over to “fuck you”.

    He was just trying to have it both ways.  He assumed he could use a different message with each audience and they’d never notice.

  13. 13.

    Ian R

    Republicans have always been projecting so hard that I’m surprised party membership doesn’t come with IMAX certification.

  15. 15.

    germy

    The Jan. 6 committee is particularly interested in why it took so long for Trump to tell his supporters to stand down.

    Trump's video message came 187 minutes after he told those supporters to march on the Capitol during the rally that preceded the attack. https://t.co/u9gDDa9r5d

    — Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) December 27, 2021

  17. 17.

    cain

    @dmsilev: Guess the “I was only joking” defense wasn’t working, so he’s switching back over to “fuck you”.

    He was talking to his tribe – so of course, he’s switched back. I mean, he’d lick Bannon’s toes if he could on a livestream.

  18. 18.

    germy

    Committee Chairman Bennie G. Thompson (D-Miss.) said in an interview that of particular interest is why it took so long for him to call on his supporters to stand down, an area of inquiry that includes obtaining several versions of a video Trump reportedly recorded before finally releasing a message 187 minutes after he told his supporters to march on the Capitol during the rally that preceded the attack.

    “It appears that he tried to do a taping several times, but he wouldn’t say the right thing,” Thompson said, basing his statement on information the panel has gleaned from interviews with witnesses as well as media reports about that day.

    He said the president’s delayed response to the Capitol attack could be a factor in deciding whether to make a criminal referral, which is when Congress informs the Justice Department it believes a crime has been committed. It would be up to federal prosecutors to decide whether to pursue a charge.

    “That dereliction of duty causes us real concern,” Thompson said.

    I’d love to see the blooper reel.

  19. 19.

    mrmoshpotato

    @The Dangerman:

    Since it was Christmas Eve and the event was for Children, was this thing live-streamed for Kids? If so, what part of “not the right time” does this POS not understand? 

    Oh, the piece of shit understood.

  21. 21.

    Kay

    @germy:

    Well, we have the whole Trump family and assorted low quality hires on video watching the thing and celebrating.

    That video should get more play, BTW. If liberals want to be useful on Twitter they could pass that around more.

  23. 23.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @germy: I wonder where (if?) those recordings have been stored. They should– a problematic word– be part of official archives, no? He was speaking as the current president.

  26. 26.

    Geminid

    @dmsilev: Now the guy works as an electrician. He’ll probably end up doing a home repair/political talk show for some right wing internet TV network, alongside Joe the Plumber.

  27. 27.

    Kay

    @dmsilev:

    That isn’t cultish at all – lying to “normie” sources and denying membership in the cult and then going to the fellow cult member platform and revealng the real reason he called. Nothing at all weird about using a children’s event for that. Just normal dad behavior.

  33. 33.

    Kay

    A video apparently taken by Donald Trump Jr. shows his family and friends laughing and joking in the backstage area before President Donald Trump spoke at a rally Wednesday.
    Not long afterward, a mob of the president’s supporters invaded the U.S. Capitol in a riot that left five people dead.
    The video features Donald Jr.’s girlfriend Kimberly Guilfoyle saying she hopes Vice President Mike Pence has “the courage or the brains to do the right thing” and block the confirmation of Joe Biden as president by Congress.

    Nah. They had nothing whatever to do with it.

    The grossest part to me is how the Trump children just revel in the adoration of the cultists.

  41. 41.

    Brachiator

    @dmsilev:

    In a shocking turn of events that I’m sure will come as a complete surprise to all here, the guy who decided that a Christmas Eve phone call with a bunch of kids was the proper venue to tell Biden “Let’s go Brandon” and then claimed it was a joke… did an interview with Steve Bannon in which he said that Trump was totally his President, should still be President, and the election was 100% stolen.

    Steve Bannon is still around? He keeps turning up like a piece of shit that you cannot completely scrape off your boot.

    I have not paid much attention to this “Let’s go Brandon” guy. The entire thing is stupid.  And it may be with us for a while. Was it Howard Stern who had some lackey turn up at various places and say “Bababooie” or some similar idiotic phrase?

    I expect diehard Trump supporters to do stupid shit. And they have not disappointed me.

    ETA: and some of these idiots and their fellow travelers love to die hard unnecessarily from Covid.

  43. 43.

    Another Scott

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think he stumbled over his words.  “Back” sounds weird (as if there’s an “l” in there).  He then tried to fix it with the “stand by”.  He was trying to say “stand down” in different words, but forgot what those words were.  He did, after all, ask Wallace what he wanted him to say.

    He, it seems to me, thought he could get Wallace off his back and then immediately negate it by spouting the antifa stuff.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  45. 45.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Kay: The grossest part to me is how the Trump children just revel in the adoration of the cultists.

    Of course.  They’re dead-inside shitbags like the shitbag who they call Dad.

  46. 46.

    Kay

    @zhena gogolia:

    I think they knew what was going to happen. They’re all just engrossed in it and if anyone has seen 50,000 Trump rallies it’s those people. The rallies are a bore. They all assembled complete with video feed to watch the douchebag bellow at the faithful for the 1000th time?

    They’re unaccountably excited about it. It’s odd.

  47. 47.

    dmsilev

    @Kay: Pretty much this.

    Via TPM,

    On Monday, Schmeck, wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat, appeared on Bannon’s podcast.

    According to the Oregonian, Schmeck denied that his “let’s go Brandon” parting message to the President on the call was intended to be vulgar, despite his criticisms of Biden.

    “At the end of the day, I have nothing against Mr. Biden, but I am frustrated because I think he can be doing a better job,” Schmeck told the Oregonian. “I mean no disrespect to him,” he added, implausibly.

    Schmeck denied being a Trump supporter but described himself as “free-thinking American and follower of Jesus Christ.”

    “Who would Jesus tell to go fuck himself?” is one of the lesser-known questions encountered in reading the Bible.

  52. 52.

    BeautifulPlumage

    Just started reading Midnight in Washington in prep for Jan book club.

    The copy I received from Elliott Bay Books is autographed, so that’s nice.

  53. 53.

    Geminid

    @germy: Industrial electrical work is very demanding, residential work not so much. People in other trades like to tell electrician jokes centered on how easy the work is. One I like has an electrician freeing a genie from a bottle, who then grants him three wishes. His first wish is to be handsome and sexy. Poof! He’s in a tailored suit, and looks like George Clooney. Then he wishes for wealth, and Poof! He has a briefcase full of millions of dollars in bearer bonds. That gets him so excited that he yells, “I never want to do another hard day’s work in my life!” and Poof! He’s an electrician again.

  55. 55.

    Kay

    The bottom line to me is if they had gotten to Pelosi or any other Democrat they recognize from tv they would have hurt that person. These are people who attacked cops. The vast majority of criminals won’t even attack a cop. They will run or resist detention – struggle while being restrained- but they don’t attack a line of police.

  57. 57.

    debbie

    @dmsilev:

    “At the end of the day, I have nothing against Mr. Biden, but I am frustrated because I think he can be doing a better job,” Schmeck told the Oregonian.

    The expert has spoken. //

  58. 58.

    Kay

    @smith:

    I sort of understand the capitol police thinking a show of force was, would be, enough. It should have been enough. It’s just almost unheard of for them to attack the police and the police, understandably, thought “these are not hardened criminals- they’ll see it as a line they can’t cross”

    Nope.

  59. 59.

    The Moar You Know

    They should hang.  All 30000 of them that were there.  Anything short of that is a granting of both acceptance and permission.

    We will not do so, of course, and this will continue until the nation is beyond repair.

  60. 60.

    Suzanne

    @dmsilev:

    “Who would Jesus tell to go fuck himself?” is one of the lesser-known questions encountered in reading the Bible. 

    I am rolling. Oh my God.

  61. 61.

    patroclus

    @Brachiator: Yeah, it’s really not that big of a deal to me either.  Schmeck clearly accomplished his purpose – which is and was to “own the libs.”  Look at how much we’re squealing about it – he punctured Christmas Eve, Christmas, which used to be about peace and goodwill, the Santa tracker, Christianity in general, the idea that kids should not be exposed to vulgarities, Free Thinkers, Biden, who, good guy that he is, merely repeated the phrase, Jill, who clearly knew all about it, who winced, all in one fell swoop without really hurting anyone (unlike, say Kyle Rittenhouse or Trump).  He certainly didn’t help anyone either – you know, like feeding the hungry, providing shelter or clothing or solace or hope – which is what Christians used to do, but he took his shot and got a bullseye.  Bully for him.

    I’m inclined to turn the other cheek on “let’s Go Brandon.”  If that’s all they’ve got, I like our chances in 2022.

  62. 62.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud:

    It’s a substitute for the father’s love they never had.

    as it is for their father

    @Kay:

    The bottom line to me is if they had gotten to Pelosi or any other Democrat they recognize from tv they would have hurt that person.

    I wouldn’t have wanted to be Mitt Romney without Eugene Goodman between us, either

  63. 63.

    Roger Moore

    @Kay:

    I think the rioters expected the Capitol police to be on their side.  They assume all police are.  They thought they could walk up to the police, they’d put up at most token resistance, and then they’d overwhelm Congress.  They genuinely didn’t expect to be met with force.

  64. 64.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Geminid: I was working a commercial job with a Texas electrician. He told a story of leaving a commercial jobsite at the end of a Friday before a holiday wkend. One guy (undocumented) was not quite done finishing up a panel and said everyone should go ahead, he was 5 mins behind them.

    Monday morning they walked in to find his *still smoking* body with his hands in the panel. The foreman started yelling at them to “Get this gawd damned wet back off my job site!” Supposedly they dumped his body out in the desert.

    How true was the story? Don’t know, but the Texan was smiling.

    ** hyperbole I’m sure

  67. 67.

    stinger

    @Another Scott: Agreed. I thought at the time he meant to say something less volatile that what actually came out. Not a great speaker at any time. An orange turd of very little brain.

  68. 68.

    patroclus

    @mrmoshpotato: No it’s not.  First, it’s revisionism – plenty of people hung in ’65, including the commandant at Andersonville as well as the entire John Wilkes Booth cabal (including some who perhaps shouldn’t have).  And, second, plenty died between ’61 and ’65 – enough to sate the retributionists on all sides.  What we’re still paying for is the 1876 Compromise, which removed federal troops and allowed Restoration and Jim Crow flourish for more than a century.

  70. 70.

    Gravenstone

    @germy: Because he was too busy cheering whilst watching the wall of TV screens all showing his “fans” wilding at the Capital in the midst of some light insurrection. He was contemporaneously reported to be absolutely gleeful about what was unfolding before his eyes. Someone eventually had to break him out of that trance and forced him to begrudgingly give the “go home” order.

  71. 71.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Gravenstone:

    He was contemporaneously reported to be absolutely gleeful about what was unfolding before his eyes

    as I recall there was reporting that he was confused that nobody else in the White House was as happy as he was to see what was happening

  72. 72.

    Gravenstone

    @Kay: The grossest part to me is how the Trump children just revel in the adoration of the cultists.

    Well, daddy hates them (aside from his lust for Ivanka). So they need that affirmation from somewhere.

  74. 74.

    Woodrow/asim

    @patroclus: What we’re still paying for is the 1876 Compromise, which removed federal troops and allowed Restoration and Jim Crow flourish for more than a century.

    Thank you for saying this. I know I don’t always agree with how people talk/see that period of time — I think someone took me to task last time I spoke on it, and they had some right to — but there’s a lot of nuance and complexity around how Reconstruction failed.

    If we’re going to invoke it as a parallel/cause for today’s issues, it’s worth understanding the era.

  75. 75.

    Roger Moore

    @patroclus:

    What we’re still paying for is the 1876 Compromise, which removed federal troops and allowed Restoration and Jim Crow flourish for more than a century.

    I think the “we should have hanged all the traitors in 1865” people are essentially arguing that the Compromise of 1876 was a result of letting the leaders of the rebellion off easy.  Some of those leaders turned into the leaders of the KKK and other anti-Reconstruction guerillas.  Being tougher on the leaders of the rebellion might have snuffed that guerilla war out before it started, or at least denied it the leadership it needed to prosper.  Of course it might also have discouraged the leaders of the rebellion from surrendering in the first place, leading to an even nastier guerilla war.  We can only guess at what might have happened with a counterfactual like that.

  82. 82.

    patroclus

    @Roger Moore: Well, it’s arguable, but in my view, the Ku Klux Klan Act and Grant’s use of federal troops did (largely) snuff out the first Klan, which wasn’t resurrected until Birth of a Nation fifty years later.  And the then-Klan’s leadership was superceded by others, like Lamar, who argued that the rule of law should be used instead of rebellion and vigilantism.   And it was the voters who elected then-segregationist Democrats and squeamish “liberal” Republicans which set the stage for 1876-77, which later led to Plessy.

    Will the current Republicans return to the rule of law?  The jury is out…

  84. 84.

    Roger Moore

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I think a big part of it is that people don’t want to look very hard at why Reconstruction failed: because Northern Whites abandoned it.  The essence is that White people cut a deal at the expense of Blacks.  Southern Whites would be allowed to keep de facto slavery in the form of Jim Crow, as long as they didn’t expand it to the North.  It’s a lot easier to pretend we could have solved all our problems way back when than admit the real problem was Northern indifference.

  86. 86.

    Geminid

    An editor at Jerkobin Magazine contributed to a Netflex movie, “Don’t Look Up.” It’s success has swelled his head, and now he’s upped his liberal bashing: “Shitlibs will not save us from fascism or climate change. Pass it on.”

    But the intrepid Mangy Jay is on the case. Today she quoted the above tweet, and then another of Sirota’s that belittled the BBB bill. Ms. Jay is a big proponent of BBB, and is already chafed by how little support it is getting from self-styled “progressives.” So she defended the value of the bill’s climate provisions. Then with typical accuracy she hit the naysayers’ essential dishonesty square on the head:

              If you respond to this w/ “Dems and Republicans are actually the same on climate change” I will not engage b/c the level of falsity in such a claim is so profound as not to be attributable to mere ignorance.

    @Magi_Jay Dec.27 2021

  87. 87.

    Peale

    @dmsilev: Can I ask a stupid question? Why the hell did they even call this bozo? Does anyone in the WH actually screen these PR stunts?  Did we Hire Joe Naiive and Susan 3Chan to evaluate these PR appearances?

  88. 88.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio

    Since this is an open thread, I’m going to change the subject and bring an educational fundraiser to the attention of the jackaltariat.
    Vivian is an acquaintance of mine in North Carolina, and a single parent who’s been coping with life as an essential worker throughout the pandemic. Her teenager has been accepted for the upcoming semester at the Outdoor Academy in Pisgah. This is pretty cool, but not cheap, and while there is a partial scholarship, they need to raise the rest of the money, for which there is a fundraiser here.
    I realize we’ve had some big fundraising pushes for political groups recently, and it’s right after the holidays, which are never cheap. But this is a good program, and a kid who deserves the opportunity, and who is a far better representative of the youth of North Carolina than someone like Madison Cawthorn could ever be. In fact, sending a minority teen to this joint would be deeply irritating to all the right people, if you all know what I mean and I think you do. So if the spirit of loving kindness isn’t enough, consider the pleasures of subverting privilege.

    I thank you for your time and attention!

  89. 89.

    Geminid

    @patroclus: The North did not have to let Southern states have full statehood so quickly. They could have been made to prove that they could run free and fair local and state elections first. Then Florida would not even have had electors to compromise over in 1876.

    I think it is corect to say that Reconstruction failed because of the North’s lack of will, not insufficient retribution at war’s end. The assassination of Lincoln made a big difference here.

    Present day proponents of hangings are also missing another point, I think: racism would not have been suppressed, because it already pervaded the entire country, from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

  90. 90.

    Bex

    @Suzanne: “Give Caesar what is Caesar’s and give God what belongs to God.  Because Caesar isn’t really all that.”  OK I made that last sentence up, but maybe it could be translated “go fuck yourself” in Aramaic.

  93. 93.

    satby

    @smith: It was called a mob for a reason.

    My father, who was a cop, always told me if I was in a crowd and it started getting “mean” or “wild”, to get out of it as fast and as far as possible. Mobs turn ugly fast, and nothing is safe.

  94. 94.

    Geminid

    @Baud: Magdi Semrau is on the case, @Magi_Jay!

    Ms. Semrau is not that into politics, and her passion is childhood education. The BBB has some initiatives like universal pre-K that she really believes in, and she is fighting hard for it and trying to get others to do the same.

    As for the Jerkobin editor, I expect nothing good from him. He’s one of those who thought Sanders would be Trojan Horse by which they could take over the party, or start a new one. Failing that, he is now on the outside looking in. The success of this movie seems to have made him a little manic, in a bad way..

  95. 95.

    Citizen Alan

    @Woodrow/asim:

    but there’s a lot of nuance and complexity around how Reconstruction failed.

    Is there? I thought it was 100% the fault of the scallywags and the carpet-baggers. Or at least, that’s what the assistant football coach who taught Mississippi History in 1983 taught me.

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