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You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Things that make me want to walk into the sea…

Things that make me want to walk into the sea…

by Betty Cracker|  December 29, 20214:00 pm| 349 Comments

This post is in: Domestic Politics, Open Threads, Politics

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There’s a piece at Vox called “Why so much Obama-era pop culture feels so cringe now.” To the extent that the thesis is accurate (and for the purpose of discussion I stipulate it is among the author’s cohort), I think I know the answer to that question: It’s because a decade has passed.

But according to the article, the shiver of cringe signifies much more than the passage of time; the author claims millennials acquired a collective distaste for former pop culture favorites like “Hamilton,” “Harry Potter” and “Parks and Rec” because the Obamas, Clintons and (fictional) Knopes failed us:

Hillary lost the election to Donald Trump. She and her hard work and her commitment to navigating the constraints of the system and her politics of representation did not save us. In response, the culture has turned on her. In America’s popular imagination, she’s become a symbol of all the worst impulses of the Democratic Party establishment: both a neolib and a neocon. So the art to which Hillary was continually compared throughout the 2016 election is reviled now, too.

Hamilton is understood to use its color-conscious casting to “whitewash” the slave-owning founding fathers. Harry Potter, fans note to each other significantly, “was a trust fund jock who became a cop and married his high school sweetheart,” and moreover his author is transphobic. Parks and Recreation is a symbol of the failure of liberalism in the face of Donald Trump.

“That’s what Parks and Rec did for most of its run, assuaging the anxieties of managerial-class liberals by telling them everything would be okay if we trusted the grownups — the Obamas, the Clintons, the Knopes — to look out for us,” wrote Timothy Shenk for Dissent in 2019.

Walk into the sea? Maybe I’ll just fucking jog to Atlantis instead.

Furthermore, the author claims the waning popularity of “Ted Lasso” means Biden better get his shit together double-quick:

As both the backlash toward Ted Lasso’s second season and Biden’s plummeting approval ratings both demonstrate, our patience with this [Biden-like folksy, avuncular] archetype is not infinite. Still, right now, Ted Lasso is the collective liberal fantasy of who Joe Biden could be if we maybe all wished hard enough. He’s replaced the collective fantasy of who Hillary Clinton could be after she failed to best Donald Trump. And only time will tell us if we’ll end up repudiating him — and all his pop cultural analogues — too.

Christ on a cracker. Somehow this explains so much and yet nothing at all. Open thread.

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Reader Interactions

349Comments

  1. 1.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 4:01 pm

    ” Hamilton” is cringe? Srsly?

  2. 2.

    hueyplong

    December 29, 2021 at 4:06 pm

    We have two major parties and one of them is committed to 24/7 assholery, supported by several propaganda networks and unlimited dark funding.

    Really don’t feel the need to elaborate further.

  3. 3.

    Central Planning

    December 29, 2021 at 4:06 pm

    I’ve never made a connection between Ted Lasso and Joe Biden. WTF is wrong with people?

    I feel like a NYTimes Pitchbot tweet is coming: Diners in this small Ohio town have never seen Ted Lasso and that’s bad news for Biden.

  4. 4.

    Ken

    December 29, 2021 at 4:07 pm

    Note however that Foundation has been renewed, and CSI: Wherever continues to reproduce in various media like HeLa cells. Therefore*, voters have also rejected Republicans, and we can expect the Free Silver party to make a stunning comeback next year.

    * My “therefore” makes as much sense as the original author’s.

  5. 5.

    Citizen Alan

    December 29, 2021 at 4:08 pm

    Personally, I think if there’s any backlash against Ted Lasso, it’s because it stole all those Emmys from Wandavision, but maybe that’s just me.

  6. 6.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 4:09 pm

    To my knowledge, Harry Potter is still widely popular, despite the lamentations of what Rowling has been doing on trans issues.

    FWIW, based on anecdotal experience, it seems like there is currently an active push to get young voters to walk away from Dems, and this article seems of a piece with that agenda.

    The excerpts you posted are themselves cringe-worthy IMHO.

  7. 7.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 4:10 pm

    I have never seen Parks and Rec or Ted Lasso FWIW.

  8. 8.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 4:11 pm

    I also believe Seinfeld and Friends are popular in reruns/streaming, so that clearly shows that people long for the return of Bill Clinton.

  9. 9.

    NotMax

    December 29, 2021 at 4:11 pm

    The audience for pop culture is fickle?

    Stop the presses!

    //

  10. 10.

    Ken

    December 29, 2021 at 4:12 pm

    @Baud: That does fit the profile of the typical Baud! 20XX voter.

  11. 11.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 4:14 pm

    @Ken: 

    I am neither folksy nor avuncular.

  12. 12.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 4:14 pm

    @Ken: Free silver?  Fuck that.  Free your mind and your ass will follow.

    Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 4:17 pm

    In any event, aren’t millenials like 40 years old now?

  14. 14.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 4:17 pm

    @Baud: I love Parks and Recs. As a CPA I used to work on city audits, and boy do governments hire all types. From slimy and cynical Ron to stars-in-her-eyes-hoping-for-unicorns Leslie, they all are there in local government, mostly working hard.

  15. 15.

    SpaceUnit

    December 29, 2021 at 4:18 pm

    When you suddenly realize the deadline for your Vox culture navel-gaze piece is an hour away but the acid is already starting to kick in.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 4:20 pm

    Also, too, I miss Mnemosyne.

  17. 17.

    raven

    December 29, 2021 at 4:20 pm

    I’m glad I’m watching football.

  18. 18.

    mali muso

    December 29, 2021 at 4:20 pm

    Yeah, I read that article yesterday and rolled my eyes so hard. Too cool for school indeed.

  19. 19.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 29, 2021 at 4:21 pm

    Besides the first 3 Harry Potter movies, I have watched nothing on this list. This is a stupid article, dressed as a savvy take.

  20. 20.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 4:22 pm

    @Baud: My millenial stepkids are. Also, they can’t afford to watch tv. They can’t afford cable. And streaming eats up their data allowance.

  21. 21.

    Citizen Alan

    December 29, 2021 at 4:22 pm

    Also, I read the article and now have a new definition of “moronic.”

  22. 22.

    Barry

    December 29, 2021 at 4:22 pm

    Between guys like this and diviners looking at livers, I’ll take the Liver People.

  23. 23.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 29, 2021 at 4:22 pm

    @Baud: Me 2. I will wish her for the New Year and tell her that you miss her.

  24. 24.

    Ken

    December 29, 2021 at 4:23 pm

    @Baud: In any event, aren’t millenials like 40 years old now?

    Yeah, but their replacement generation all follow 60 random TikTok and YouTube channels, plus one or two of the thousands of streaming video programs, none of which pick up more than 1% of the overall population. So it’s impossible to make any generalization about them, especially not the huge sweeping ones that pundits prefer.

    (Which is only because they’re secretly yearning for the day when there were 3-1/2 networks, and 60% of the country believed whatever Walter Cronkite told them.)

  25. 25.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 29, 2021 at 4:23 pm

    In America’s popular imagination, she’s become a symbol of all the worst impulses of the Democratic Party establishment

    Oh go fuck yourself into the sea!

    ETA

    As both the backlash toward Ted Lasso’s second season and Biden’s plummeting approval ratings both demonstrate, our patience with this [Biden-like folksy, avuncular] archetype is not infinite.

    Oh go fuck yourself to the bottom of the Mariana trench and start digging!

  26. 26.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 4:24 pm

    @Baud: Doesn’t everyone miss Mnemosyne? EarlyBJ at night is really sad.

  27. 27.

    Citizen Alan

    December 29, 2021 at 4:24 pm

    @mali muso: It’s telling to me that you can predict the quality of an article in nearly any media forum by whether or not they allow comments. Totally unsurprised that Vox doesn’t want to hear what people have to say about this bilge.

  28. 28.

    fancycwabs

    December 29, 2021 at 4:25 pm

    Ted Lasso is the story of a Trump supporter who hides under a veneer of platitudes. There are no Democrats among college football coaches–Nick Saban’s support of Joe Manchin does not count

    I imagine Coach Beard is a libertarian, but he could surprise me.

  29. 29.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 4:25 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Agreed. I am old so my opinion doesn’t count, but you aren’t.

  30. 30.

    David Fud

    December 29, 2021 at 4:26 pm

    Cringe is using cultural zeitgeist (as explained by Constance Grady) to explain politics.  Sure, that totally makes sense.  If this is the best we are going to get from the Millenials, just bring on the comet now.  And that is me, Gen Xer, walking around with a full helping of, “OK, Boomer”.

  31. 31.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 4:26 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Seriously.  Hillary-bashing is the easist way to lose credibility in my eyes.  And that’s what old white men folk do.  Hardly screams sophisticated young person to me.

  32. 32.

    The Dangerman

    December 29, 2021 at 4:27 pm

    Literary equivalent of David Hasselhoff’s Greatest Hits.

  33. 33.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 4:27 pm

    @Baud: So do I.  There is recent evidence that Richard III was not guilty of killing his nephews.  I would like to taunt her Alison Weir trusting, pro-Tudor self about it.

  34. 34.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 4:27 pm

    @Citizen Alan: I am embarrassed for Vox. I expected better of them. Maybe they’ll pull it. They have done that before.

  35. 35.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 4:27 pm

    Anyone else watch Wheel of Time on Amazon?  I haven’t read any of the books, but the visuals is the series are amazing.

  36. 36.

    Woodrow/asim

    December 29, 2021 at 4:28 pm

    ARGH. These critiques of Hamilton were out when the play was still on Broadway, I recall reading and debating them. If it’s “cool,” it’s more because they gained new life with the Disney+release & the other projects Lin-Manuel is hot on (the movies TICK TICK…BOOM and IN THE HEIGHTS), which have their own, somewhat related critiques. This didn’t come out of nowhere, nor is it reflecting some kind of massive “cultural shift” — outside the one where:

    – People of Color have more “play” in the mainstream for discussing and raising these concerns, and
    – Miranda’s works are more well-known, and thus gaining more scrutiny.

    Hamilton is a genre-defining and moving piece of work. It’s also — shock! — flawed. Given that Miranda has been clear that it was a host of stars that aligned for the release (most notably COVID), this whole-assed article falls flat on the face of actually understanding how media and social media discussions work.

    And it’s especially busted that they tie this all to Hillary Clinton, who’s far more a poster child for toxic media depictions than anything this article claims as reality.

    And speaking of toxic, running an article like this that talks about Harry Potter, and ignores the massive backlash its creator is getting for her transphobia — yet claiming some “cultural shift” in how people see that franchise that’s due to “just politics”?

    FOR FUCK’S SAKE.

    Lazy, lazy writing on nearly every level.

  37. 37.

    smith

    December 29, 2021 at 4:29 pm

    This really has a strong whiff of the RW’s reliance on victimization to explain everything: My life is shit, and it’s somebody else’s fault! Probably Hillary’s!

  38. 38.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 4:30 pm

    @sab:

     I am embarrassed for Vox. I expected better of them. Maybe they’ll pull it. They have done that before.

    That way the NYT can pick it up.

  39. 39.

    Sean

    December 29, 2021 at 4:30 pm

    The Ted Lasso backlash, to the extent there is one (?) is because it was hugely popular, and there is nothing people in this country love more than destroying and defiling anything that rises to extreme popularity.

    It’s especially odd regarding Ted Lasso, which is just an experiment in portraying kindness as normal and virtuous in and of itself. That is why it resonated in 2020, a year in which kindness was almost non-existent.  It’s not high art and it isn’t propaganda for Biden, so I really don’t get the wasted effort of the article, or why people can’t just enjoy things anymore.

  40. 40.

    zhena gogolia

    December 29, 2021 at 4:30 pm

    @sab: yeah. I’m about to teach it and a student told me it was now considered cringe. But I’m full up with a waiting list. So my job is to show them it isn’t cringe but a timeless work of art. I feel quite confident.

  41. 41.

    Tom Q

    December 29, 2021 at 4:31 pm

    I thought drawing stupid political inferences from cultural successes or failures was strictly Maureen Dowd’s bailwick.

    I remember when Forrest Gump’s success was supposed to prove Gingrich-ism was the future of politics.  Two years later, Clinton was resoundingly re-elected.

    Whatever the outcome of the Biden administration…and, contra the venomous current political wisdom, I’m ready to bet the over on its ultimate success…it has nothing to do with whether a TV show’s second season isn’t deemed as good as its first.

  42. 42.

    Old School

    December 29, 2021 at 4:31 pm

    @Citizen Alan:

    Personally, I think if there’s any backlash against Ted Lasso, it’s because it stole all those Emmys from Wandavision, but maybe that’s just me.

    I think that is just you.  AFAIK, they were competing in different categories (comedy vs limited series).

  43. 43.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 29, 2021 at 4:31 pm

    @Baud: I didn’t see any indication of this fucknut’s age.  But that’s unimportant.

  44. 44.

    Suzanne

    December 29, 2021 at 4:32 pm

    I read that piece a day or so ago and it’s just dumb. Eye-rolling at earnestness is Gen X’s wheelhouse, fuckers!

  45. 45.

    L85NJGT

    December 29, 2021 at 4:32 pm

    @SpaceUnit:

    That’s how Leonard Pierce ended up writing for Jacobin.

  46. 46.

    zhena gogolia

    December 29, 2021 at 4:33 pm

    @SpaceUnit: lol

  47. 47.

    zhena gogolia

    December 29, 2021 at 4:33 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I do too

  48. 48.

    Woodrow/asim

    December 29, 2021 at 4:34 pm

    @Baud: Anyone else watch Wheel of Time on Amazon?

    Really enjoying it, overall, as is my Partner. Not read the books; I mostly started watching due to a Romance author on Twitter who has similar tastes to mine in media.

    That said, there are a lot of fair critiques, including by Brandon Sanderson, the fella who finished the book series (and who’s series of lectures on writing I happen to be watching, slowly, at the moment). I daresay it mostly works if you, like I did, kind of fall for the characters and their potential, even if the 1st season clearly had a lot of challenges meeting said potential (including one cast member just flat-out leaving towards the end of filming). Part of that is that I’ve wanted more Rosamond Pike since 2005’s PRIDE AND PREJUDGE, and this show is certainly a showcase for her acting, and clearly is something she’s passionate about being in!

  49. 49.

    WereBear

    December 29, 2021 at 4:34 pm

    @sab: I do, too.

  50. 50.

    sdhays

    December 29, 2021 at 4:34 pm

    I fail to understand how a critically acclaimed show on AppleTV, a venue accessed by a fairly small but relatively wealthy demographic, has any bearing on anything other than Apple’s revenue.

  51. 51.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 4:34 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: I wasn’t going to give it a click to look up the author’s bio.

  52. 52.

    Cacti

    December 29, 2021 at 4:35 pm

    Hillary lost to Trump because grandpa goodness from Vermont promised you a pony, and your cohort decided not to vote for her when she beat him.

    Things that really haven’t aged well:

    “Tell me a reason why I should vote for Hillary without mentioning the Supreme Court.”

  53. 53.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 4:36 pm

    @Cacti: It was a portion of the cohort, but otherwise it’s not wrong.

  54. 54.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 4:36 pm

    @Baud: I watched it.  Meh.  I have not read the books.

  55. 55.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 29, 2021 at 4:37 pm

    @Baud:

    I also believe Seinfeld and Friends are popular in reruns/streaming, so that clearly shows that people long for the return of Bill Clinton. 

    Would he create another federal budget for a Rethuglican shitbag to destroy by committing war crimes?

  56. 56.

    NotMax

    December 29, 2021 at 4:37 pm

    @Woodrow/asim

    These critiques of Hamilton were out when the play was still on Broadway,

    Was?

    Still at the Richard Rodgers theater on W. 46 Street. Running for over six years now.

  57. 57.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 4:37 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Meh on the series, or meh on the visuals?

  58. 58.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 29, 2021 at 4:37 pm

    n America’s popular imagination, she’s become a symbol of all the worst impulses of the Democratic Party establishment: both a neolib and a neocon. So the art to which Hillary was continually compared throughout the 2016 election is reviled now, too.

    This is the most dramatic case of Pauline Kaelism I have seen in a very, very long time. “Everyone I haven’t blocked on twitter agrees!”

    I’m not gonna bother with the Vox post, but is it really this cringe-inducingly earnest in describing this theory of cringe?

  59. 59.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 4:38 pm

    @Cacti: Betty Cracker’s cohort?

  60. 60.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 4:39 pm

    @Baud: About a year ago Vox had an article by a young Black woman reporter from NYC going out to the Midwest who discovered there were Black people there, who knew?  (Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, Kansas City, St Louis?)

    I was all set to be indignant on BJ, but within hours they pulled it. Do they have editors? They must because their overall standards are high, but their whoppers are very whopping.

  61. 61.

    Betty Cracker

    December 29, 2021 at 4:39 pm

    @Woodrow/asim: To be fair, the author does acknowledge the transphobia factor. It’s even mentioned in the excerpt above.

  62. 62.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 29, 2021 at 4:41 pm

    @Cacti: I actually have a half-serious pet theory that a generation raised on Harry Potter is how you explain the explosion of the Bernie cult.

  63. 63.

    zhena gogolia

    December 29, 2021 at 4:41 pm

    @NotMax: but it’s so cringe! This student went on to say that she reminds her friends that Lin Manuel Miranda is really old, like 45, so you have to make allowances

  64. 64.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 29, 2021 at 4:42 pm

    @Baud: LOL? Yes.

  65. 65.

    dmsilev

    December 29, 2021 at 4:42 pm

    @Woodrow/asim: I enjoyed it except for the last episode which I thought was a bit of a mess.

    Read some of the books probably 10 or 15 years ago, don’t really remember too many of the details.

  66. 66.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 4:42 pm

    @Baud: Meh on the series.  I watched series 2 of the Witcher at about the same time and found it much more compelling (I was just fine with the racially diverse elves btw).

  67. 67.

    debbie

    December 29, 2021 at 4:43 pm

    @sab:

    I find myself at a loss for much of what I read now, whether it’s Twitter, FB, or anywhere else. Damn kids.

  68. 68.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 4:43 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I only have Prime, not Netflix.  Can’t watch the Witcher.

  69. 69.

    Woodrow/asim

    December 29, 2021 at 4:44 pm

    @Sean: It’s especially odd regarding Ted Lasso, which is just an experiment in portraying kindness as normal and virtuous in and of itself. That is why it resonated in 2020, a year in which kindness was almost non-existent. It’s not high art and it isn’t propaganda for Biden, so I really don’t get the wasted effort of the article, or why people can’t just enjoy things anymore.

    People REALLY want to find some Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance-level “meaning” from Ted Lasso. Which makes sense, because (and I say this as a fan!) at it’s core Ted Lasso is basically an updated/fish-outta-watch The Andy Griffith Show in terms of themes and goals, and a lot of viewers…of a type, we’ll say, really gravitate to that kind of storytelling, esp. in turbulent times. (HINT: Ted and Clark Kent are both Kansas boys…)

    And there is meaning there, solid meaning. But it’s not all peaches and roses, yanno?

    Season 2 is to their credit for working hard to break ALL of that up, while aiming to keep the core of being decent to each other. The slow-burning narrative choice that explodes in everyone’s face at the end of this season is beautiful in its pain. I hope it continues to shine a light on Ted’s failings and flaws, so that he — and we, as an audience — can learn how to overcome using optimism as a shield against reality (hey there, so-called STAR TREK fans…)

  70. 70.

    Cacti

    December 29, 2021 at 4:44 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:  Doesn’t sound far fetched to me.

  71. 71.

    germy

    December 29, 2021 at 4:44 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I actually have a half-serious pet theory that a generation raised on Harry Potter is how you explain the explosion of the Bernie cult.

    I have a similar theory, except instead of Harry Potter it’s an inability to afford a mortgage, rent or healthcare.

  72. 72.

    mary s

    December 29, 2021 at 4:45 pm

    I usually stick to the policy stuff on Vox — Jerusalem Demsas is one of my faves. I guess I’m just too much of an old white lady to appreciate most of the culture vulturing.

  73. 73.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 4:45 pm

    @Baud: The bad guy with all the teeth was pretty cool.

  74. 74.

    James E Powell

    December 29, 2021 at 4:45 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Have you seen this “evidence”? It’s described as “Da Vinci Code” -style clues.

    And Philippa Langley on Richard III is like Shelby Foote on Robert E Lee.

    Medieval English kings usually killed any potential rival claimants, if they could. I’m trying to think an exception between William the Conqueror and William of Orange

  75. 75.

    debbie

    December 29, 2021 at 4:45 pm

    @NotMax:

    And then he got grief for not being diverse enough (not casting any dark-skinned Latinex) for In the Heights!

  76. 76.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 29, 2021 at 4:45 pm

    Response to the article

  77. 77.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 4:45 pm

    Constance Grady. The next generation’s Caitlyn Flanagan.

  78. 78.

    Woodrow/asim

    December 29, 2021 at 4:46 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Honestly — and this is a stain on my anger blinding me — I missed it. I even did a text search, thinking no one could write a story like this and not mention her TERFdom!

    So that’s on me, and thank you for nudging me on it!

  79. 79.

    James E Powell

    December 29, 2021 at 4:46 pm

    @Cacti:

    Whose cohort are you talking about?

  80. 80.

    dmsilev

    December 29, 2021 at 4:46 pm

    @sdhays: People did “Oh the significance of it all!” thumb-sucking pieces on Game of Thrones as well, and that was an even more expensive-to-access show. At least for Ted Lasso, you can do the “sign up for a month, binge-watch, and then cancel” dance without any real hassle.

  81. 81.

    Benw

    December 29, 2021 at 4:47 pm

    My newly 12 yo daughter got her first full Pfizer dose today!!!!!!

  82. 82.

    James E Powell

    December 29, 2021 at 4:48 pm

    @Baud:

    Anyone else watch Wheel of Time on Amazon?  I haven’t read any of the books, but the visuals is the series are amazing.

    I’m four episodes in and I’m still trying to figure who is who and what their respective goals are.

  83. 83.

    zhena gogolia

    December 29, 2021 at 4:48 pm

    @dmsilev: did any young people ever watch Ted lasso?

  84. 84.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 4:48 pm

    @Benw: ?

  85. 85.

    zhena gogolia

    December 29, 2021 at 4:48 pm

    @Benw: ?

  86. 86.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 4:49 pm

    @James E Powell: Yeah, I saw it.  But it’s as convincing as Weir’s “It was probably him because he can’t be ruled out” approach.  Besides, stained glass never lies.

  87. 87.

    Mike in NC

    December 29, 2021 at 4:49 pm

    Vox is a load of crap.

  88. 88.

    Cacti

    December 29, 2021 at 4:49 pm

    Also too, as Baud mentioned, the millennials are getting on into their early 40s now.

    Aren’t they getting a little old to be so tragically hip?

  89. 89.

    zhena gogolia

    December 29, 2021 at 4:50 pm

    @Mike in NC: aja Romano is good

  90. 90.

    Cacti

    December 29, 2021 at 4:50 pm

    @James E Powell: The cohort that protest voted for Jill Stein and Gary Johnson, because “Don’t threaten me with the Supreme Court!”.

  91. 91.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 4:51 pm

    @zhena gogolia: When I was about twelve I realized the next millenium would start in 2000. I thought that it was really cool that I might live to see it, but personally a shame that I would be too old to really enjoy it. ( Born 1954)

  92. 92.

    germy

    December 29, 2021 at 4:52 pm

    @Cacti:

    I never thought of them as serious candidates.  I sort of ranked them with Marianne Williamson.

  93. 93.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 29, 2021 at 4:53 pm

    @Benw:

    My newly 12 yo daughter got her first full Pfizer dose today!!!!!! 

    Hooray!  Six weeks until fully vaccinated!

  94. 94.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 4:54 pm

    @Cacti: Who is the “you” and the “your” referring to in your original comment.   And shouldn’t you be starting to complain about the existence of the Winter Olympics soon?

  95. 95.

    Ken

    December 29, 2021 at 4:55 pm

    @germy: I have a similar theory, except instead of Harry Potter it’s an inability to afford a mortgage, rent or healthcare.

    Oh, like those ever influenced people’s politics.  Stick to proven* sociological factors, like streaming video shows, fantasy novels, and bowling.

    * Word used incorrectly.

  96. 96.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 4:56 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: YAY! My kids are old, so they’ve had theirs. But I sure can relate to your relief.

    Oops. Responding to you responding to Benw, but still yay! ( I was surprised you had a twelve year old.) Benw YAY!

  97. 97.

    Ken

    December 29, 2021 at 4:56 pm

    @James E Powell: I’m four episodes in and I’m still trying to figure who is who and what their respective goals are.

    You’re arguably ahead of the author at the same point in the series, then.

  98. 98.

    Woodrow/asim

    December 29, 2021 at 4:56 pm

    @NotMax: Still at the Richard Rodgers theater on W. 46 Street. Running for over six years now.

    …come on, gang. :) I do mean when Hamilton first hit Broadway.

    But if we’re going to go Full Pedant: I believe Ishmael Reed wrote his first criticism of Hamilton for Counterpunch when it was still at the Public Theater; it got published around the same time it moved to Broadway. That criticism was the basis for his response play The Haunting of Lin-Manuel Miranda, which is likely the biggest single effort to critique Hamilton, at least that I’m aware of.

  99. 99.

    Cacti

    December 29, 2021 at 4:57 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: The Bern Feeler cohort, old fellow.

    You remember?

    The ones booing on the floor of the Democratic convention.

  100. 100.

    Bobby Thomson

    December 29, 2021 at 4:57 pm

    @sab:  I am embarrassed for Vox. I expected better of them.

     

    Knowing the principals behind it, why?

  101. 101.

    WhatsMyNym

    December 29, 2021 at 4:57 pm

    @Baud:

    Anyone else watch Wheel of Time on Amazon?

    I’ve enjoyed it overall. Hope they continue with it.
    Haven’t read the books.

  102. 102.

    Another Scott

    December 29, 2021 at 4:57 pm

    My state senator’s comments on the new Virginia districts.

    Short thread.

    Most telling piece of Special Master's memo for me was repeated assertion that the map gives each side a 50/50 shot at a majority- that is NOT what 24.2-302.2 says that was passed by the Senate/House and signed by @GovernorVA and unanimously opposed by every R

    — Senator Scott Surovell (@ssurovell) December 29, 2021

    Unfortunately, this redistricting process – not independent, veto-able by the GQP, thrown to the GOP-dominated state supreme court when there’s no consensus – is part of the state constitution for now and we’re stuck with it (until it can be changed)…

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  103. 103.

    Ken

    December 29, 2021 at 4:58 pm

    @sab: When I was about twelve I realized the next millenium would start in 2000.

    Across the internet, a hundred pedants suddenly alert, like lions when a baby wildebeest wobbles past…

  104. 104.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 4:59 pm

    @Bobby Thomson: I mostly like their content.

  105. 105.

    Bobby Thomson

    December 29, 2021 at 5:00 pm

    @Cacti: If AHS: Cult is to be believed, they get theirs

  106. 106.

    debbie

    December 29, 2021 at 5:00 pm

    @Another Scott:

    It’s not going much better here in Ohio.

  107. 107.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 5:00 pm

    My takeaway from this Vox piece (or at least the excerpt) is that it is further confirmation that any piece of work that bashes Democrats, no matter how ludicrious its thesis, is automatically treated by the media as a legitimate point of view worthy of respect and dissemination.

  108. 108.

    Bobby Thomson

    December 29, 2021 at 5:01 pm

    @Ken: seems too obvious.  I’m not taking the bait

  109. 109.

    Suzanne

    December 29, 2021 at 5:01 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I actually have a half-serious pet theory that a generation raised on Harry Potter is how you explain the explosion of the Bernie cult. 

    I don’t think this is implausible. I think popular culture is far more influential than we give it credit for. It’s not just a mirror.

  110. 110.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    December 29, 2021 at 5:01 pm

    Oh, I get it. The Biden-Ted Lasso link is dumber than you think.

    Ted Lasso is portrayed by Jason Sudeikis who used to do a killer Biden impersonation on SNL.

    That’s the link.

  111. 111.

    Cacti

    December 29, 2021 at 5:02 pm

    @Another Scott: Well, on the bright side, you won’t have to worry about reading dangerous books from black authors.

  112. 112.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 5:03 pm

    @Ken: This wildebeest may wobble but she sure isn’t a baby.

  113. 113.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 5:05 pm

    @Ken: Jeez. I bet if I had left it as is no one would have noticed.

  114. 114.

    Sure Lurkalot

    December 29, 2021 at 5:05 pm

    @Benw: Happy Birthday and happy day for the tween and the fam!

  115. 115.

    danielx

    December 29, 2021 at 5:06 pm

    @Cacti:

    Being tragically hip never gets old; ask any of its practitioners.

  116. 116.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    December 29, 2021 at 5:07 pm

    As both the backlash toward Ted Lasso’s second season and Biden’s plummeting approval ratings both demonstrate, our patience with this [Biden-like folksy, avuncular] archetype is not infinite.

    DougJ writing for Vox now?

  117. 117.

    Brachiator

    December 29, 2021 at 5:08 pm

    But according to the article, the shiver of cringe signifies much more than the passage of time; the author claims millennials acquired a collective distaste for former pop culture favorites like “Hamilton,” “Harry Potter” and “Parks and Rec” because the Obamas, Clintons and (fictional) Knopes failed us.

    I saw the article and passed it by. I mainly comment on it here to note what a bunch of bullshit it is.

    I was thinking about the Harry Potter books the other day, and noted that their legacy has been tarnished because some people want to cancel the shit out of JK Rowling.

    But the main thing about the Potter novels is that they are for kids and spurred a generation to read and to savor fiction. The novels also transformed the publishing industry. At one time readers had to wait months for the American publisher, who had their own deal, to publish the novels here long after they were available in the UK. Kids and their parents said “fuck that shit” and ordered directly from Amazon UK. Eventually the novels were simultaneously available here and in the UK.

    I also remember that kids discovered the novels independent of official gate keepers who usually approved of, reviewed and made sure that children’s novels got into libraries and bookstores. Kids create their own society, and knowledge of Harry Potter lore became like knowing the password to the speakeasy of the world of children.

    I remember when the 3rd novel was released seeing two sisters sitting in a coffee shop, maybe a few years apart in age, each with her own copy, engrossed in the text like scholars investigating a secret, mystical text.

    Are the Potter novels out of date and can we blame Obama? I have no fucking idea and don’t much care. I suspect that kids are still discovering the reveling in the Potter novels. They still want to be in the room where it happens in the Chamber of Secrets.

    ETA: Was anything, anything, anything at all added to the cultural legacy of the US or the world by Trump inspired …. and I use the term loosely … artists?

  118. 118.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 5:09 pm

    WaterGirl came up with some great Christmas pie visuals. I peeked mostly, and a good thing because the underlying comments were good. But the pie filter has yummy visuals.

  119. 119.

    guachi

    December 29, 2021 at 5:09 pm

    Harry Potter is still very popular. It’s largely in the hands of Warner with movies and licensing of the movies. For example, Lego restarted HP sets in 2018 after stopping them at the time of the final HP movie. The sets have been wildly popular, far exceeding Lego’s expectations. So popular that the Theme is now a permanent theme  with sets every year since 2018.

  120. 120.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 29, 2021 at 5:10 pm

    @Ken:

    Across the internet, a hundred pedants suddenly alert, like lions when a baby wildebeest wobbles past… 

    LOL!  I know why!

  121. 121.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 5:10 pm

    @WhatsMyNym: It apparently set streaming viewship records, so I’m sure there will at least be a second season (at which point people can complain about it and extrapolate what it means for Biden and the Dems).

  122. 122.

    Another Scott

    December 29, 2021 at 5:10 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Oooh!  Nominated!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  123. 123.

    Cacti

    December 29, 2021 at 5:10 pm

    @Brachiator: I was thinking about the Harry Potter books the other day, and noted that their legacy has been tarnished because some people want to cancel the shit out of JK Rowling.

    Poor JK Rowling. How hard it must be to sit atop her millions and punch down at transfolk.

  124. 124.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 29, 2021 at 5:10 pm

    GHISLANE MAXWELL guilty in 5 (of 6) counts.

    Good.

  125. 125.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 5:12 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Which count didn’t she do?

  126. 126.

    debbie

    December 29, 2021 at 5:13 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Not to laugh at a person’s bad luck, but ha ha ha.

  127. 127.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 29, 2021 at 5:13 pm

    @zhena gogolia: A little while back there was some Twitter thread about “what celebrity will you not be surprised when it turns out they’re CIA?” and about half of the people in the thread said “Lin-Manuel Miranda.”

    I don’t know either. I think it’s that he’s just a little too sunny and earnest.

  128. 128.

    Benw

    December 29, 2021 at 5:13 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: @sab: YAY. It ‘s such a relief to get the first shot and it will be a huge relief when she’s fully vaxxed!!

  129. 129.

    Quencher

    December 29, 2021 at 5:14 pm

    @sab:

    Hamilton is a mediocre musical celebrating a slave owner and slave trader.

    So, yeah, pretty cringe.

  130. 130.

    trollhattan

    December 29, 2021 at 5:14 pm

    Meanwhile, if you find yourself leaving California for Iowa, you’re doing it wrong.

    A former Central Valley grocery store worker has been arrested in Iowa and charged after making threats against former U.S. presidents, Dr. Anthony Fauci and Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg as part of a plan to “combat evil demons in the White House,” court records say. Kuachua Brillion Xiong, 25, was in custody at the Pottawattamie County Jail in Council Bluffs, Iowa, after his arrest Dec. 21 following a traffic stop in Cass County, Iowa, court records say.

    Xiong, who is described in court records as a former grocery store worker from Merced who also lives in Sacramento, had an AR-15 rifle, boxes of ammunition and loaded magazines and body armor in his car when he was stopped. He had the White House in his GPS as his destination. Sheriff’s Sgt. Tyler Shiels pulled Xiong over for speeding on Interstate 80 and Xiong made a series of statements about his “disapproval for government due to the sex abuse of children,” and said that he had money in his car for “funeral expenses,” court records say.

    Xiong was taken into custody and questioned by the U.S. Secret Service in an interview during which he declared “he is the only person remaining who can free the United States of evil and it is necessary for him to kill those in position of power,” court records say.

    https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article256920012.html#storylink=cpy

    OTOH am not unhappy he’s two time zones away and one would guess, headed for club fed.

  131. 131.

    Caphilldcne

    December 29, 2021 at 5:14 pm

    @Barry: thank you I too support the Liver People. Also I totally cracked up reading that!

  132. 132.

    Betty Cracker

    December 29, 2021 at 5:14 pm

    @germy: Ya think? I’ll have no truck with the Bernie cult nonsense, but yeah.

  133. 133.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 5:15 pm

    @Cacti: JK Rowling’s books helped my trans niece survive her childhood. JK Rowling should have stayed off twitter.

  134. 134.

    smith

    December 29, 2021 at 5:15 pm

    @Brachiator: As appalling as Rowling’s intolerance is, as I recall, the books themselves include a clear anti-racist and anti-fascist message.

  135. 135.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 5:15 pm

    @sab:

    Sometimes you want rich people to just enjoy their money.

  136. 136.

    Benw

    December 29, 2021 at 5:16 pm

    @Sure Lurkalot: Thanks, yo!

  137. 137.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 29, 2021 at 5:16 pm

    @Brachiator:

    I was thinking about the Harry Potter books the other day, and noted that their legacy has been tarnished because some people want to cancel the shit out of JK Rowling.

    Based just on social-media buzz, it’s 100% this. Rowling is so awful these days, and so actively destructive now with her anti-trans activism, that it’s made people go back over the books with a microscope looking at everything questionable in them and decide they really always sucked and people were stupid to like them.

  138. 138.

    trollhattan

    December 29, 2021 at 5:16 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    “Poor little rich girl.”

    What a twisted, twisted story. Those girls, now women, will never get their stolen lives back but at least they get some measure of justice.

  139. 139.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 5:16 pm

    @Quencher: Hamilton was a slave trader?! Really?!

  140. 140.

    debbie

    December 29, 2021 at 5:18 pm

    From NBC News:

    Scroll back up to restore default view.

    Hijackers seized a UPS big rig, kidnapping its driver and stealing an untold number of packages, during a brazen heist Tuesday in Atlanta, authorities said.

    The attack unfolded at about 3:30 a.m. EST when the UPS truck was stopped at a traffic light at Fulton Industrial Blvd NW and Donald Lee Hollowell Parkway NW and a gunman got into the vehicle, police said.

    That assailant then forced the UPS employee to drive to a secluded area near Hollowell and Bankhead Court NW where “the suspect, along with others, tied the victim up and stole cargo from the tractor trailer,” according to an Atlanta police statement.

    It wasn’t until the 18-wheeler was reported overdue that the company used GPS to track down the truck and found “the driver, un-injured, inside the trailer” and called law enforcement at about 9:15 a.m., the police statement continued.

    A representative of Atlanta-based UPS declined to say how much was stolen. But investigators told NBC affiliate WXIA-TV that less than a quarter of the load was taken.

    “We are thankful that our driver is safe, and will defer questions to the investigating authorities,” a company rep said in statement Wednesday.

    Atlanta police Sgt. Jarius Daugherty said the driver wisely complied with all the suspects’ demands.

    “There’s no amount of property out there worth possibly having your life taken,” he told WXIA-TV.

    World is getting too crazy.

  141. 141.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 5:18 pm

    @Baud: Yep.

  142. 142.

    HeleninEire

    December 29, 2021 at 5:19 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: She needs to narc on every single one of the men.

  143. 143.

    Ohio Mom

    December 29, 2021 at 5:19 pm

    @Central Planning:

    That’s me: I have no idea who Ted Lasso is and have been putting off goggling him on the chance/my wish that he soon becomes irrrlevant.

    Really feeling like I’m old today.

  144. 144.

    Brachiator

    December 29, 2021 at 5:19 pm

    @Cacti:

    Poor JK Rowling. How hard it must be to sit atop her millions and punch down at transfolk.

    JK Rowling may be a bad person because of her views. The novels are great children’s literature.

  145. 145.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 5:19 pm

    @debbie: I blame Biden and his supply chain problems.

  146. 146.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 5:20 pm

    @debbie: I am also thankful the driver is safe. I know a lot of UPS drivers. It kind of sucks. I’d hate for one of them to be hurt or die for somebody else’s packages.

  147. 147.

    Wag

    December 29, 2021 at 5:20 pm

    @Ken:

    and 60% of the country believed whatever Walter Cronkite told them.

    I miss those days.

  148. 148.

    trollhattan

    December 29, 2021 at 5:22 pm

    @debbie:

    If this were a caper flick they had inside help and knew the truck, contents and order in which said contents were loaded.

    If it’s a “dudes doing a dumb thing” they picked a random truck and have themselves a yuge supply of Best Foods mayonnaise to unload.

  149. 149.

    HeleninEire

    December 29, 2021 at 5:22 pm

    @Baud: Yeah that was the fastest and weirdest transition from “Yeah, you are the best…and how great are you?” to “WTF asshole?”

  150. 150.

    debbie

    December 29, 2021 at 5:23 pm

    @sab:

    There was a report on local news about the increasing brazenness of crimes committed here. I hope that highjacking isn’t a harbinger of what’s to come.

  151. 151.

    MisterForkbeard

    December 29, 2021 at 5:23 pm

    @Baud: Bashing Hillary is HUGE amongst people under 25, I’ve seen.

    Don’t you understand how awful and corporate and awful and stupid and awful and corrupt she was? She just was, okay? And she let Trump win, and Democrats let Trump win, and that’s why Democrats are just as bad as Republicans.

  152. 152.

    Cacti

    December 29, 2021 at 5:23 pm

    @Brachiator: Ezra Pound was one of the most important literary figures of the 20th century.

    And also an unrepentant fascist mouthpiece and anti-semite.

    He’s remembered today for both.

  153. 153.

    debbie

    December 29, 2021 at 5:24 pm

    @trollhattan:

    Oh, man, if I had pulled that crime and found out all I’d stolen was boxes and boxes of Miracle Whip, I’d do myself in.

  154. 154.

    zhena gogolia

    December 29, 2021 at 5:25 pm

    @Ohio Mom: don’t!

  155. 155.

    Ohio Mom

    December 29, 2021 at 5:26 pm

    I think Ruckus is in some level of contact with Mnemosyne.

    When Ohio Dad and I talk about what trips we might take one day and he pushes for Southern California, I always imagine a meet-up where I get to tell her how much I appreciated her comments, way back when.

  156. 156.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    December 29, 2021 at 5:27 pm

    @James E Powell: Medieval English kings usually killed any potential rival claimants, if they could. I’m trying to think an exception between William the Conqueror and William of Orange

    Henry III let Louis I scamper back to France. Of course Louis got out of it on the technicality that the English wanted to pretend they didn’t  crown a Capet king of England out of shear hatred of King John lol

  157. 157.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 5:27 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: Lucky for them, there is a political party in this country that will cater to their hate. They are no concern of mine.

  158. 158.

    Brachiator

    December 29, 2021 at 5:27 pm

    @Cacti:

    Ezra Pound was one of the most important literary figures of the 20th century. And also an unrepentant fascist mouthpiece and anti-semite. He’s remembered today for both.

    The only artist in the history of the world with an unblemished record is Anonymous.

  159. 159.

    germy

    December 29, 2021 at 5:27 pm

    A jury has found Ghislaine Maxwell

    Count 1: Guilty
    Count 2: Not Guilty
    Count 3: Guilty
    Count 4: Guilty
    Count 5: Guilty
    Count 6: Guilty

    — Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) December 29, 2021

  160. 160.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 29, 2021 at 5:27 pm

    @Ohio Mom: that’s one of the funny things about those clips, and from other bits I’m seeing around twitter, this writer uses a whole lot niche pop-culture– with the exception of Harry Potter– to describe “America’s popular imagination”. I loved Parks and Rec, but I think it got a fraction of the viewership of /googles top TV shows of 2013-14, sticks to sitcoms/ the Big Bang Theory, Modern Family, How I Met Your Mother and (God help America) Two and a Half Men. PnR doesn’t even make the top 25.

  161. 161.

    MisterForkbeard

    December 29, 2021 at 5:29 pm

    @debbie: Okay, but can Republicans blame this on a California proposition? Because literally every time there’s a theft here, they yell about the proposition that “made crime legal”. Sigh.

  162. 162.

    Woodrow/asim

    December 29, 2021 at 5:29 pm

    @sab: Yes, best evidence is that Hamilton dealt with slaves as part of his work before coming to what we now call America’s mainland. Not a direct trader, but certainly involved with the trade on a direct level.

    That’s without a whole lot of connections to slavery in who he knew and was related to, which lead to some of what we’d, today, call flip-flops in his work engaging slavery as an evil. Here’s a good, if in-depth, article on the topic: https://www.sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2021/03/conversation_hamilton_slavery.php

    Some of the confusion, I recall, for the play is that the book Miranda read on Hamilton that kick-started his interest doesn’t mention some of these ties. Moreover, Miranda chose to eliminate the one song that directly addresses slavery in Hamilton, Cabinet Battle #3, before going to Broadway (which didn’t help critical concerns on his portrayal of this topic). Here’s a bit of it, but it’s worth reading the linked lyrics and/or finding a bootleg of it if you’re interested in the show and how it evolved:

    [HAMILTON (To Jefferson)]

    […]
    Institutionalizing slavery only multiplied our troubles
    Wait till the 1800s, and their population doubles
    You all know
    This is the stain on our soul and democracy
    A land of the free? No, it’s not. It’s hypocrisy
    To subjugate, dehumanize a race, call ’em property
    And say that we are powerless to stop it. Can you not foresee?
    Sir, even you, you have hundreds of slaves
    Whose descendants will curse our names when we’re safe in our graves
    How will the south find labor for its businesses?
    How will Thomas Jefferson find his next mistresses?

    (I mean, say what you will about Lin-Manuel, but he, at one point, was willing to go there when it came to Jefferson.

  163. 163.

    Ruckus

    December 29, 2021 at 5:30 pm

    @Central Planning:

    Diners in this small Ohio town have never seen Ted Lasso and that’s bad news for Biden.

    I’m not in a diner, I did, once upon a time live in a small town in Ohio, I’ve never seen Ted Lasso, and what in the hell does Ted Lasso have to do with Joe Biden?

    I’m saying I agree, WTELF?

  164. 164.

    trollhattan

    December 29, 2021 at 5:31 pm

    @debbie:

    Basically, we transition from “Ocean’s 11” to “Reno 9-11” and the script writes itself. :-)

  165. 165.

    frosty

    December 29, 2021 at 5:31 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: @Baud: @sab:  Include me in the Mnemosyne greeting too. Maybe just as “a bunch of jackals say hi”

  166. 166.

    Old School

    December 29, 2021 at 5:35 pm

    @Brachiator:

    The only artist in the history of the world with an unblemished record is Anonymous.

    Joe Klein?

  167. 167.

    Brachiator

    December 29, 2021 at 5:35 pm

    @Quencher:

    Hamilton is a mediocre musical celebrating a slave owner and slave trader.

    Tell us how you feel about 1776.

  168. 168.

    NotMax

    December 29, 2021 at 5:35 pm

    @Ken

    Can’t really be pedantic about it as 12 is a prime age for mistaken assumptions.

    ;)

  169. 169.

    Ohio Mom

    December 29, 2021 at 5:35 pm

    @Benw: Congrats! I imagine it’s a great relief.
    Ohio Son gets his booster tomorrow, then we’re all up to date.

  170. 170.

    trollhattan

    December 29, 2021 at 5:36 pm

    @Ruckus:

    Trying to connect the dots from pop culture and the entertainment biz in general, to the current “powers that be” and the president specifically, is fraught. So and so not getting a Grammy nom doesn’t tell you jack squat about anything, beyond the Grammys and so and so.

    “Box Office for ‘Spiderman: Far from Home’ reveals new fractures in already fragile Biden coalition.”

  171. 171.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 5:37 pm

    @Woodrow/asim: The only founding father-ish person with a really good record on both slavery and women’s rights was Burr.

  172. 172.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 5:40 pm

    @Quencher: Arglebargle, is that you?

  173. 173.

    jackmac

    December 29, 2021 at 5:40 pm

    Saw the headline and immediately thought “Sounds like nonsense from someone just trying to be contrary and get some clicks. I’m going to skip it.”

    There’s a backlash against Ted Lasso? Why can’t we just have and enjoy nice things without some assholes putting poop in the punch bowl?

  174. 174.

    Betty

    December 29, 2021 at 5:40 pm

    @Citizen Alan: Not to worry. This is being savaged on Twitter, here and over at Lawyers, Guns and Money.

  175. 175.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    December 29, 2021 at 5:40 pm

    @debbie: ​

    Just an update of Butch Cassidy robbing train transports and Alvin Karpis knocking over post offices.

  176. 176.

    Baud

    December 29, 2021 at 5:41 pm

    @Betty: That good to hear. I hope we cancel the author.

  177. 177.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 29, 2021 at 5:42 pm

    @sab: Your opinion counts with me.

  178. 178.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 5:43 pm

    Maxwell found guilty. https://twitter.com/bnonews/status/1476313767872978950?s=21

  179. 179.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 29, 2021 at 5:43 pm

    Constance Grady sounds like a character from P. G. Wodehouse, that poor Gussie Finknottle has gotten engaged to.

  180. 180.

    Ruckus

    December 29, 2021 at 5:44 pm

    @smith:

    My life is shit, and it’s somebody else’s fault! I’ve never done anything wrong ever! Probably Hillary’s!

    Fixed that for you….

  181. 181.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 5:44 pm

    @Woodrow/asim: Hamilton at 16, dependent on his sponsors, living parentless in the Caribbean, hoping for a scholarship, was peripherally involved in the slave trade as part of the business he was given as a 16 year old accountant/ junior factor. Hamilton at age 25 and older was always vehemently abolitionist.

    Jeez. I would like to have seen any jackal have taken as principled a stance as early as he did, and as much agaimst the business interests of his time.

  182. 182.

    Ohio Mom

    December 29, 2021 at 5:45 pm

    @zhena gogolia: That’s not a comment on Ted Lasso, it’s a comment about my exhaustion about keeping up with pop culture. And how surprised I am by that exhaustion.

  183. 183.

    Patricia Kayden

    December 29, 2021 at 5:46 pm

    Joe Rogan's upcoming sold-out show in Canada was cancelled because Rogan would not be able to enter the country since he is unvaccinated. Happy Wednesday!— Aaron Parnas (@AaronParnas) December 29, 2021

  184. 184.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 5:46 pm

    @Woodrow/asim: Jefferson, his whole life, owned and was willing to own slaves, even those he knew were his own children.

  185. 185.

    prostratedragon

    December 29, 2021 at 5:47 pm

    The heartbreak of intellectual hernia … (regarding the cited article)

  186. 186.

    Dennis

    December 29, 2021 at 5:48 pm

    @Central Planning: I got tired of Ted Lasso, the character, in the second season, but I can’t get enough Roy Kent.

  187. 187.

    JimV

    December 29, 2021 at 5:48 pm

    I’m just seeing Parks and Rec on reruns. Lays it on a bit too thick, but has some good moments. My nephews liked it and still quote it. (“This is the food my food eats.”)

  188. 188.

    germy

    December 29, 2021 at 5:48 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

    So Rogan walks the walk!   I thought he was like those fox news people, the fully vaccinated ones who tell the rubes what they want to hear.

  189. 189.

    frosty

    December 29, 2021 at 5:50 pm

    @Another Scott: I understand I may be stepping on your brand, but it appears to me that “Cheers” may be superfluous here and the previous line would be a suitable salutation for your post.

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  190. 190.

    SpaceUnit

    December 29, 2021 at 5:51 pm

    If there’s a backlash against Hamilton, Harry Potter or Parks and Recreation, I’m sure it stems in part from the degree to which outlets such as Vox spent slobbering over them in the first place.

    This is like Tiger Beat turning on One Direction.

  191. 191.

    Dennis

    December 29, 2021 at 5:51 pm

    @sab: Miranda can’t please everybody. Check out all the complaints about lack of black representation in “In the Heights”, a movie specifically about the Latino experience in New York.

    Probably all the black and Latino actors and singers in Hamilton and In the Heights are grateful for the work, though.

  192. 192.

    guachi

    December 29, 2021 at 5:52 pm

    @germy: Maybe Rogan is vaccinated but just pretends he isn’t?

    Though Rogan doesn’t strike me as smart enough to do that.

  193. 193.

    HeleninEire

    December 29, 2021 at 5:53 pm

    @JimV: Be sure to see the one where Patton Oswalt guest stars. The entire speech (I don’t wanna spoil it) is ad-libbed.

  194. 194.

    Captain C

    December 29, 2021 at 5:53 pm

    @hueyplong: But that party apparently has no agency. Everything they do is actually the Democrats’ fault, especially the things that Dema actively opposed.

  195. 195.

    Starfish

    December 29, 2021 at 5:53 pm

    Her attack on Hillary Clinton is cringy girlboss nonsense where women can only be powerful if they are in conflict with one another.

    Folks turned on Miranda after In the Heights excluded Afro Caribbean people.

    This inclination to piss in everyone else’s Wheaties is getting old.

  196. 196.

    Brachiator

    December 29, 2021 at 5:54 pm

    @Woodrow/asim:

    But if we’re going to go Full Pedant: I believe Ishmael Reed wrote his first criticism of Hamilton for Counterpunch when it was still at the Public Theater; it got published around the same time it moved to Broadway.

    I remember when a number of black intellectuals and African American literature professors shit all over Reed’s novel “Mumbo Jumbo” for being too lightweight, too humorous, and not worthy to be important to The Struggle.

  197. 197.

    glc

    December 29, 2021 at 5:54 pm

    Tastes vary, apparently.

    Who knew?

  198. 198.

    Barbara

    December 29, 2021 at 5:56 pm

    @trollhattan: ​
     Headed for the closest federal prison that conducts psych evaluations.

  199. 199.

    NotMax

    December 29, 2021 at 5:57 pm

    Been meaning to ask and this seems like a good thread in which to do so; anyone watched The Great on Hulu? I have not but am mildly curious as to whether it’s satire worth a go or is sophomoric pap.

  200. 200.

    debbie

    December 29, 2021 at 5:57 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Yay!

  201. 201.

    Another Scott

    December 29, 2021 at 5:57 pm

    @frosty: Actually, that’s helpful.  There are too many times when “Cheers” isn’t appropriate, but “Regards” or “Best” or whatever doesn’t work either.

    Grr…  might!

    ;-)

    Thanks!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  202. 202.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 29, 2021 at 5:58 pm

    @Another Scott: “Yours in savage indignation”?

  203. 203.

    debbie

    December 29, 2021 at 5:59 pm

    @Dennis:

    That’s what this country has come to: Nothing is ever enough.

  204. 204.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 29, 2021 at 6:00 pm

    @Ohio Mom: I am always out of sync of whatever is in at the moment. Earlier it was because I was too busy. Then I didn’t have cable, because I couldn’t get it where I lived. Being an immigrant, I don’t always get the references especially to sports stuff and older TV shows. Its fun to discover stuff at my own pace and own time.

  205. 205.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    December 29, 2021 at 6:00 pm

    Re-watching “The Wild Wild West, which was a catnip for me as a child after school.  Most episodes of “The Wild Wild West” involve former Confederates trying to overthrow President Grant and getting beat up and sent back into looser-dom by James West and Artemus Gordon, which I now find soothing to my soul.

  206. 206.

    debbie

    December 29, 2021 at 6:01 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Up vote!

  207. 207.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 6:04 pm

    @NotMax: You missed the culture thing this weekend. Everyone at the tail end of the thread loved “Great” at an enthusiasm level that makes me want to subscribe to whatever service.

    Culture thing is BG inChi, which I love. BG as I remember was first to mention Great (very enthusiastically) .

  208. 208.

    zhena gogolia

    December 29, 2021 at 6:04 pm

    @Dennis: That’s what I keep coming back to. Who else is centering highly popular musicals on non-white performers?

  209. 209.

    zhena gogolia

    December 29, 2021 at 6:05 pm

    @NotMax: BGinChi likes it. A former student told me some of what goes on in it and it sounded like sophomoric pap to me, kind of a ripoff of Sofia Coppola’s Marie Antoinette.

  210. 210.

    Another Scott

    December 29, 2021 at 6:07 pm

    – MI about to pass a fair map that undoes a GOP gerrymander

    – NC State Supreme Court on track to strike down a GOP gerrymander

    – NM passes aggressive 3D-0R map

    And this is all *before* NY passes a brutal 23D-3R gerrymander that draws out 5 House Republicans…

    — Brent Peabody (@brent_peabody) December 28, 2021

    Too many people don’t remember the other side has/had people like Tom DeLay.

    This stuff is deadly serious, and we know that they have treated it that way for decades. We know what would be happening if the situations were reversed.

    Fighting for every seat is important, and we don’t need to apologize for it.

    (via eclecticbrotha)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  211. 211.

    frosty

    December 29, 2021 at 6:07 pm

    @Another Scott: Cool! A well-thought out answer to a comment of mine that should have had snark tags.

    I like the idea of alternating between Cheers! and Grr… Should cover almost everything.

  212. 212.

    Dan B

    December 29, 2021 at 6:07 pm

    @SpaceUnit: There’s a line in Don’t Look Up for you.

  213. 213.

    JMS

    December 29, 2021 at 6:08 pm

    I was in my 20s when Titanic came out. One of my work colleagues loved the movie and went to see it multiple times, gushed over it etc. Then Titanic fatigue set in. One day I heard her saying it was overrated and no big deal. I thought she felt pressured because that’s what all the cool kids were starting to say. It’s like that. Everyone wants to appear cool, and these are examples of things that are overexposed or don’t fit the current zeitgeist. It’s a stretch to call it political or tie any of them to Hillary Clinton(!)

    On a side note I’m curious how many of you actually know gen z ers well. Those would be my kids, so I learn about some things whether I want to or not. From their perspective, Harry Potter is elementary school, Hamilton is middle school, and Parks and Rec reruns on Netflix is early high school, so all are cringe because they remind them of being younger and none are political.

  214. 214.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 29, 2021 at 6:08 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Do you watch Peaky Blinders? I have watched one season so far.  So far I love it. It has great music among other things.

  215. 215.

    debbie

    December 29, 2021 at 6:09 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    This is the NPR interview I listened to about In the Heights’s lack of diversity. I don’t usually yell at my radio when culture is being discussed, but it was appropriate to make a one-time exception. (There’s both a transcript and audio clip at the link.

     

    ETA: From the link:

    SHAPIRO: Last night on “The Daily Show,” Lin-Manuel Miranda responded to some of these concerns, and he expanded on the apology that he posted on Twitter. Here’s part of what he said.

    (SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, “THE DAILY SHOW WITH TREVOR NOAH”)

    LIN-MANUEL MIRANDA: I can’t legislate how people feel. Like, again, all I want is for this neighborhood to feel seen. And if there’s a segment of it that doesn’t feel seen and they’re saying that, like, you have to acknowledge that and let it in. And, you know, all I can do is learn from it and promised to do better.

    SHAPIRO: So what do you think of that response?

    LEON: I am, at this point, really tired of having to wait and having to sort of be in line. And I’m saying this, again, from the perspective of a Black woman of Cuban descent. Yes, he must do better – period. At this point, you know, this is a $55 million project. This was his chance to knock it out of the park. I do think that Lin should know better at this point. And we are tired of waiting, and we’re tired of having to wait for the next project and the next opportunity to be seen. The time is now.

    Like I said, nothing is ever enough.

  216. 216.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 6:09 pm

    @Cheryl from Maryland: Mom would not even let us watch that show. She was vehement. It made her nuts. She said too violent, but I think she also had a visceral reaction to Confederates. Her oldest great uncle died at age 19 defending the Union and Pennsylvania. We moved to Kentucky and then Florida, but her feelings about the Confederacy were always visceral and hostile.

  217. 217.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    December 29, 2021 at 6:10 pm

    True story. 3 people in a row spun $1.00 on The Price is Right.  Then the first lady spun $1.00 again to win 20 grand!  The second lady  spinner hit $.05 for a cool 10 grand.  Biden’s inflation is gonna fuckin’ bankrupt The Price is Right!

  218. 218.

    Another Scott

    December 29, 2021 at 6:10 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: [ snort! ]

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  219. 219.

    schrodingers_cat

    December 29, 2021 at 6:11 pm

    @Another Scott: The gerrymandering doom posting is the worst, acts like its own version of voter suppression. If we are doomed anyway than why even try.

  220. 220.

    dmsilev

    December 29, 2021 at 6:11 pm

    @debbie:

    Oh, man, if I had pulled that crime and found out all I’d stolen was boxes and boxes of Miracle Whip, I’d do myself in.

    I remember reading a story of a daring diamond heist. Thieves tracked the truck with the goods, hit it, and made away with the loot. The only problem was that the diamonds in question were industrial-grade powder and grit, used to coat drill bits and things like that. Not exactly the haul they were expecting…

  221. 221.

    Patricia Kayden

    December 29, 2021 at 6:15 pm

    If I were Matt Gaetz right now, I’d be very very worried.— Elizabeth C. McLaughlin (she/her) (@ECMcLaughlin) December 29, 2021

  222. 222.

    germy

    December 29, 2021 at 6:16 pm

    Sorry, what?! @BBCNews now have Alan Dershowitz on to analyse #GhislaineMaxwell’s conviction, without any reference to his background; he’s simply introduced as “constitutional lawyer” as if he’s a neutral expert. Shocked. Utterly bizarre decision & does the audience a disservice. pic.twitter.com/l7qOqVsTTW

    — Caoilfhionn Gallagher QC (@caoilfhionnanna) December 29, 2021

  223. 223.

    debbie

    December 29, 2021 at 6:17 pm

    @Another Scott:

    The Ohio Supreme Court heard arguments on redistricting earlier this week. Even the Chief Justice (a moderate Republican) seemed skeptical of the GOP attorney’s insistence that the map could have been a lot worse. The voting here generally runs 54% to 46% for Republicans, while the new map will result in 80% to 20% for Republicans. So sure, it could be worse (and knowing these assholes, they wanted it to be worse), but isn’t it already bad enough?

  224. 224.

    debbie

    December 29, 2021 at 6:22 pm

    @germy:

    Apparently, he was his usual self. From the replies:

    He spent most of his interview explaining why his accuser should herself be prosecuted. I couldn’t believe what I was watching. Shameful.
    — Marina Sergides (@MarinaSergides) December 29, 2021

  225. 225.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 29, 2021 at 6:23 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Well, there is some veiled antisemitism and Harry basically becomes a cop at the end, doesn’t he?

  226. 226.

    Ruckus

    December 29, 2021 at 6:24 pm

    @sab:

    Born 1954

    A mere child as it were…… And welcome to the world of old farts.

  227. 227.

    germy

    December 29, 2021 at 6:26 pm

    @debbie:

    So disgusting.

  228. 228.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 29, 2021 at 6:26 pm

    @germy:

    WTAF?

  229. 229.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 29, 2021 at 6:28 pm

    @Another Scott:

    Also too, in oral arguments with the Ohio Supreme Court, I read that that a Justice who is considered a “swing” justice was expressing disapproval of the Republican gerrymandered map that was recently passed

  230. 230.

    germy

    December 29, 2021 at 6:30 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I guess they wanted an expert on the subject.

    BBC interview Alan Dershowitz over Ghislaine Maxwell – a new low BBC, a new low. pic.twitter.com/dapu03gkAl— Steve E Ennever (@MusicMiscreant) December 29, 2021

  231. 231.

    Ruckus

    December 29, 2021 at 6:31 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Was anything, anything, anything at all added to the cultural legacy of the US or the world by Trump inspired …. and I use the term loosely … artists?

    No. Neither of them added even a minute iota of culture to the world. When all is said and done the the books are totaled up they may end up with a negative score.

  232. 232.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 6:32 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): My usual caveat about relying on what is said at oral arguments as a indicator of potential results.

  233. 233.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 29, 2021 at 6:32 pm

    @germy:

    Why was he even interviewed? Didn’t the Maxwell trial happen in the UK? Dersh is an American lawyer

  234. 234.

    gwangung

    December 29, 2021 at 6:32 pm

    @debbie: I think what matters more is that Leon is essentially correct. And this particular criticism was foreseeable ahead of time. Speaking as a member. of a marginalized group that has gotten a chance or two to be at the front of the line.

  235. 235.

    trollhattan

    December 29, 2021 at 6:34 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Joe Rogan and sold-out in Canada just seem like a bad fit.

  236. 236.

    germy

    December 29, 2021 at 6:34 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    An international man of mystery.

    He has many important things to say about events around the world.  (At least interviewers think he does.) You should have heard him after Desmond Tutu died.

  237. 237.

    apocalipstick

    December 29, 2021 at 6:36 pm

    @sab: Ron Swanson is neither slimy nor cynical. He is an incurable romantic.

  238. 238.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 6:38 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I am pretty sure New York is in the US.

  239. 239.

    trollhattan

    December 29, 2021 at 6:38 pm

    @germy:

    Find myself suddenly fixated on how one pronounces Caoilfhionn.

  240. 240.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 29, 2021 at 6:39 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I thought her trial was in the UK

  241. 241.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 6:39 pm

    @trollhattan: Bob.

  242. 242.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 29, 2021 at 6:41 pm

    @trollhattan: before I clicked up I think you were making some kind of Arnold Schwarzenegger reference

  243. 243.

    debbie

    December 29, 2021 at 6:41 pm

    @gwangung:

    Leon made it pretty personal. Miranda’s casting for Hamilton was much more diverse than a lot of white people would have liked, so it’s not like he’s ignorant. I don’t disagree with what she’s saying in general, but I thought specifically slagging Miranda like she did was a bit much.

  244. 244.

    L85NJGT

    December 29, 2021 at 6:43 pm

    You should probably avoid Politico’s fluff piece on Lawrence O’Donnell being Big Media’s Biden whisperer.

  245. 245.

    Anyway

    December 29, 2021 at 6:43 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    ??? Manhattan court. Federal jury

  246. 246.

    RaflW

    December 29, 2021 at 6:44 pm

    On the same day Vox published that drivel, they also ran a piece called “Just how much is Trump’s judiciary sabotaging the Biden presidency?”

    Do editors at Vox even talk to each other?

  247. 247.

    Ruckus

    December 29, 2021 at 6:45 pm

    @trollhattan:

    Fraught?

    I go just a bit farther than that and say it is 100% Bull and Shit.

  248. 248.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 29, 2021 at 6:45 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    TBF, it’s a very blatantly bad gerrymander, but point taken

  249. 249.

    Ken

    December 29, 2021 at 6:45 pm

    @trollhattan: Insert obligatory “Throatwarbler Mangrove” reference.

  250. 250.

    Cameron

    December 29, 2021 at 6:47 pm

    @trollhattan: With a story like that, he’s more likely to wind up in Happy Ranch.

  251. 251.

    Kalakal

    December 29, 2021 at 6:47 pm

    @James E Powell:

    Medieval English kings usually killed any potential rival claimants, if they could. I’m trying to think an exception between William the Conqueror and William of Orange

    A couple of exceptions

    Stephen was captured by Matildas forces in 1141. He was kept alive and later released in a prisoner exchange. Mind you the Anarchy was  weird

    Henry VI was held prisoner by Edward IV in the tower of London between 1465 and 1470 before being restored to the throne. To be fair after being recaptured in 1471 he was murdered

  252. 252.

    Brachiator

    December 29, 2021 at 6:48 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Well, there is some veiled antisemitism and Harry basically becomes a cop at the end, doesn’t he?

    I don’t know about the antisemitism, veiled or otherwise.

    Do you mean that Harry becomes a cop like Kamala Harris was a cop?

  253. 253.

    Woodrow/asim

    December 29, 2021 at 6:48 pm

    @sab:Hamilton was working on slave trades well past the Revolution:

    To John Chaloner

    [New York, November 11, 1784]
    Dr Sir

    Mrs. Renselaaer1 has requested me to write to you concerning a negro, Ben, formerly belonging to Mrs. Carter2 who was sold for a term of years to Major Jackson.3 Mrs. Church has written to her sister that she is very desirous of having him back again; and you are requested if Major Jackson will part with him to purchase his remaining time for Mrs. Church and to send him on to me.

    This, according to this source, was on behalf of his sister-in-law, Yes That Angelica. I linked an overview on this in my previous post, which included this overview on why Hamilton might have engaged in such acts that supported slave owners:

    After Hamilton moved to New York in 1773, he remained closely tied to slaveholding elites. His sister-in-law’s house, where he was married, was served and maintained by enslaved people. The house where he died, belonging to his close friend William Bayard Jr., was also staffed by enslaved people.

     

    I don’t mean to turn this into an “is Hamilton an evil slaver” debate, because I know that will go nowhere.

    What I will say is this. Almost all the Founders were deeply invested in their…money, let’s say. As much as Hamiliton worte about the evils of slavery, so too did Jefferson. Yet: we know how far that got when it came to the reality of what he did, on his and to what was then called “his property” — people we know did not deserve that fate.

    It is not beyond any shadow of a doubt, that Hamilton’s words, and indeed even his membership in an Abolitionist society, was not met by him fighting on all fronts to resist engaging in working the slave trade in indirect, but real, ways. That he said one thing, but did another, is very much of a piece with the Founders as a group, and is not something I think worth avoiding raising as real topics to debate and understand.

    The 3/5ths Compromise makes a lot more sense, I think, when you look at the Founders as trapped between the enormous wealth of chattel slavery, and the desires for freedom as an abstract concept.

  254. 254.

    gwangung

    December 29, 2021 at 6:50 pm

    @debbie: Given that Leon was specifically talking bout In the Heights, I don’t think Hamilton actions are that germane to bring up.

  255. 255.

    Jinchi

    December 29, 2021 at 6:51 pm

    @Tom Q: I remember when Forrest Gump’s success was supposed to prove Gingrich-ism was the future of politics.

    Who watched Forrest Gump and thought of Newt Gingrich?

  256. 256.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 29, 2021 at 6:55 pm

    @smith:

    As appalling as Rowling’s intolerance is, as I recall, the books themselves include a clear anti-racist and anti-fascist message.

    They do. The metaphor was not lost on kids, either, from what I heard.

    If you go looking, you can find objectionable things in them. The goblins of Gringotts resemble old antisemitic stereotypes. Rowling seems to have a horror of fat people that comes up a lot. The whole “but house-elves are a race who WANT to be slaves” thread in the fourth book was kind of infuriating, though Rowling came back to that and fixed it a bit in the later books.

    People who are upset at Rowling have taken all that and woven it into a whole thesis of “Harry Potter wasn’t actually about anti-fascism or anti-racism at all, it was just English class prejudice in disguise”. But I don’t really buy it. I do think there’s an ethical problem right now in that anything that funnels money to Rowling is actively funding her harmful activity against trans people.

  257. 257.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 6:57 pm

    @Kalakal:  Ned learned his lesson.

    ETA:  I still say Buckingham did it.

  258. 258.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 29, 2021 at 6:57 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Do you mean that Harry becomes a cop like Kamala Harris was a cop?

    No, he literally becomes a cop, called an “auror” or something

    I don’t know about the antisemitism, veiled or otherwise.

    The banker goblins

    For those who haven’t read or watched Harry Potter, a quick summary: Goblins are a creature in the magical wizarding world of Rowling’s creation. Let’s let the Harry Potter Wiki take it away from here:

    “Goblins are a highly intelligent race of small magical humanoid beings with long fingers and feet that coexist with the wizarding world. Their diet consists of meat, roots, and fungi. Goblins converse in a language known as Gobbledegook, and are adept metalsmiths notable for their silverwork; they even mint coins for wizarding currency. Due to their skills with money and finances, they control the wizarding economy to a large extent and run Gringotts Wizarding Bank.”

    Greedy, hook-nosed, bank-controlling people? Doesn’t sound great. Not only does it not sound great, it sounds like a super anti-Semitic stereotype.

    Let’s back up a second: J.K. Rowling has been on the record calling out anti-Semitism. I even wrote about it here on Alma last year. (I’ve also written about her history of problematic statements.) As Stephen Richer points out in Moment Magazine, “The debate over whether the goblin character has its roots in anti-Semitism is wholly unaligned with Rowling’s professed views on Jews.”

    Rowling has also gone on the record about comparing her fictional Death Eaters to Nazis, writing, “If you think this is far-fetched, look at some of the real charts the Nazis used to show what constituted ‘Aryan’ or ‘Jewish’ blood. I saw one in the Holocaust museum in Washington when I had already devised the ‘pure-blood,’ ‘half-blood’ and ‘Muggle-born’ definitions, and was chilled to see that the Nazis used precisely the same warped logic as the Death Eaters.”

    However, just because one professes to be against Nazism and fascism does not mean one can’t be anti-Semitic or make anti-Semitic statements. Standing up against one thing doesn’t automatically exonerate you from all other things! That is not how life works!

    Connor Goldsmith, a literary agent, explained to me over e-mail that “Rowling’s goblins are nakedly anti-Semitic caricatures — a race of gnarled, hook-nosed misers obsessed with gold, who believe they own everything they’ve ever produced and wizards who purchase things only ‘rent’ from them. They appear to run the entire wizarding economy, and trust no one but their own kind. It’s suggested that secret cabals of goblins work to undermine the wizard government. The fact that these creatures appear in a book series which is ostensibly an allegory for the Holocaust is as distressing as it is bizarre; one hopes Rowling didn’t intend to create such a caricature, because it really undermines her project, but intent isn’t really what matters at the end of the day.”

  259. 259.

    Woodrow/asim

    December 29, 2021 at 6:58 pm

    @debbie: Like I said, nothing is ever enough.

    Miranda HIMSELF said there’s a dialogue to be had, in the very quote. I think it’s worth letting the people who are impacted by Lin-Manuel’s choices — or lack thereof — have that damn discussion, in public and private.

    See, what people miss is that this isn’t the first time Lin-Manuel has pulled this. He did it, from what I understand, with the Broadway show. We’re discussing right now some of the flaws in Hamilton around race presentations (just because you put Black and Brown bodies on a stage, doesn’t mean their stories are being told!) For him to repeat the same issues the play had, with the movie?

    That’s like stomping on someone’s toe for the 3rd time. You’d expect an angry reaction, a “hey? why are we talking about this AGAIN” reaction.

    Miranda’s an adult. If he loves The Heights as much as he says he does, he can talk to the people within it in an honest and real way. He has a lot more power in this, than the people raising their criticisms, after all.

  260. 260.

    Brachiator

    December 29, 2021 at 6:58 pm

    @Jinchi: 

    Who watched Forrest Gump and thought of Newt Gingrich?

    I didn’t like Forrest Gump. I thought it was phony. But I never thought of Newt Gingrich.

    And I think I pointedly later ignored any politically tinged criticism of the movie.

  261. 261.

    zhena gogolia

    December 29, 2021 at 6:59 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: too violent for me

  262. 262.

    johnnybuck

    December 29, 2021 at 7:00 pm

    Vox is like, soooo 2006.

  263. 263.

    Woodrow/asim

    December 29, 2021 at 7:01 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: The whole “but house-elves are a race who WANT to be slaves” thread in the fourth book was kind of infuriating

    I found out about it from a crossover fan fic, believe it or not. That BLEW MY MIND when I checked with folx and found out the fic, if anything, downplayed it.

    I think people miss how horrific some folx will find that kind of content.

  264. 264.

    zhena gogolia

    December 29, 2021 at 7:01 pm

    @debbie: Nope. A non-white director, non-white cast, but it’s going down in history as the worst thing evah. Makes me sad.

  265. 265.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 29, 2021 at 7:01 pm

    @trollhattan:

    “Box Office for ‘Spiderman: Far from Home’ reveals new fractures in already fragile Biden coalition.”

    You’re DougJ in disguise, right?

  266. 266.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 7:04 pm

    @Ruckus: Get off my lawn you Californian!

  267. 267.

    Citizen Alan

    December 29, 2021 at 7:06 pm

    @Woodrow/asim:

     (HINT: Ted and Clark Kent are both Kansas boys…)

    Which doesn’t mean as much for me as it used to. Honestly, the idea that a space alien could come to Earth, possess godlike superpowers, and use them primarily as a costumed crime fighter is less implausible to me than the idea that someone raised from infancy by Kansas farmers would be so altruistic and egalitarian. I would expect  Superman in 2021 to be using his powers to singlehandedly build Trump’s Wall.

  268. 268.

    Brachiator

    December 29, 2021 at 7:06 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    RE: Do you mean that Harry becomes a cop like Kamala Harris was a cop?

    No, he literally becomes a cop, called an “auror” or something.

    So it is like Kamala was a cop.

    How is this a bad thing?

    The goblin thing is a stretch. I always thought they were Scottish.

  269. 269.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 29, 2021 at 7:07 pm

    @Woodrow/asim:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The whole “but house-elves are a race who WANT to be slaves” thread in the fourth book was kind of infuriating, though Rowling came back to that and fixed it a bit in the later books.

    Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. IIRC from cultural osmosis, Hermonie is one of the few to speak up about the house elves being slaves and I think she was ridiculed for it or at least not taken seriously by the other characters. Her being the resident know-it-all granola cruncher goody-goody, it kind of comes across like we the audience aren’t supposed think the elves are slaves

  270. 270.

    Dan B

    December 29, 2021 at 7:10 pm

    @Benw: Yay for relief!  Even though there’s no immunity yet I felt huge relief at my first shot.  It felt like the first glimmer of light before dawn or the tinge of warmth before spring.

  271. 271.

    Ruckus

    December 29, 2021 at 7:10 pm

    @sab:
    I don’t even know where your lawn is, I’m not standing on A lawn at the moment (nor have I been for over 4 hrs) and right now I’m not even standing outside because it’s raining……

  272. 272.

    Kalakal

    December 29, 2021 at 7:10 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Officially, poor Henry died of “melancholy”, which was to the Middle Ages what gravity is to modern Russians. In this case melancholy seems to have used a mace.

  273. 273.

    louc

    December 29, 2021 at 7:10 pm

    Honestly, I thought the second season of Ted Lasso was better than the first. My sister actually loved the Beard episode, but she’s a Gen-Xer who loved the movie that inspired it, After Hours.

    I fell in love with Hamilton after I saw it on Disney+ and then read all the critiques of it that came out at the same time as the musical. @Woodrow/asim the song Cabinet Battle 3 is in the official soundtrack and the Mixtape version.

  274. 274.

    Roger Moore

    December 29, 2021 at 7:10 pm

    @WhatsMyNym:

    I have read most of the books, but I gave up when the author got seriously bogged in the later books.  Much like ASOIAF, the author gradually introduced more and more POV characters, who split up into more and more groups, and the books slowed to a crawl as he had to update the progress for each group.  It was the kind of series where you felt like you needed to go back and reread the series so far when a new book came out, and that got more and more painful until I decided I wasn’t going to read any more until the series was finished.  When it actually was finished, I just couldn’t bring myself to read the whole thing.

    That said, I feel as if the TV series is doing a decent job of adaptation.  They’ve made one or two decisions I really hate and a few more that seem like they’re setting up landmines for later, but they’ve also done some things better than the books.  It will be interesting to see how they manage going forward.  It’s a big series, and it’s anyone’s guess if they’ll manage to keep it going to the finish.

  275. 275.

    Darkrose

    December 29, 2021 at 7:11 pm

    @Dennis: In the Heights is about the Dominican-American community. Many Dominicans are obviously of African descent, just like the residents of the other half of the island in Haiti. Making a movie about the Dominican community in New York and only showing the light-skinned people ones is leaving out the reality of that community. LMM could have and should have done better.

  276. 276.

    Served

    December 29, 2021 at 7:12 pm

    @debbie: big yikes. “Those people should just be happy with what they get!”

    Washington Heights has a huge Afrolatino population, and they’re right to be mad at not being a part of his “love letter” to the neighborhood.

  277. 277.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 7:13 pm

    @Woodrow/asim: Was Hamilton an attempt to tell black or brown stories though?  I thought that having obviously white historical figures played by nonwhite actors was a move to show the universality of the themes and actions.  I have no familiarity with In The Heights, so I have nothing to say about it.

  278. 278.

    Citizen Alan

    December 29, 2021 at 7:13 pm

    @Cacti: That, as much as anything, is why I will hate Bernie and his cultists forever. The Clinton campaign picked delegates to the Convention based on “who would show the best possible face of the Democratic Party going into the general election” while the Sanders campaign picked them on the basis of “who would be willing to boo the nominee every single time her name was mentioned, even when it was by St. Bernie himself.” They ensured that the primary media story coming out of the convention was about how divided the Dems were and how angry younger voters were about how “Hillary cheated Bernie out of the nomination.” I will hate them from beyond the grave.

  279. 279.

    Ruckus

    December 29, 2021 at 7:14 pm

    @Kalakal:

    Wasn’t melancholy the third son of King what’s his name?

  280. 280.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 7:15 pm

    @Kalakal: Being hit by a mace would make me sad as well.

  281. 281.

    Jinchi

    December 29, 2021 at 7:16 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Hermonie is one of the few to speak up about the house elves being slaves and I think she was ridiculed for it or at least not taken seriously by the other characters.

    And the way it’s presented, all of the house elves (save Dobby) are actually quite content with their lot and seem to consider her efforts silly.​

  282. 282.

    Ksmiami

    December 29, 2021 at 7:16 pm

    @sab: Hamilton enabled commerce and the growth of cities in America. We would be a very different nation had he been an early President.

  283. 283.

    sab

    December 29, 2021 at 7:16 pm

    @Ruckus: Congrats on your rain.

  284. 284.

    artem1s

    December 29, 2021 at 7:16 pm

    Srsly? Let’s just have another Benghazi hearing or write another article about HER EMAILS while we’re at it. Yes, a woman is going to make a run at the WH in 4 or 8 years. AND she’s a POC without a penis! Do you really have to start giving aggrieved misogynistic white boys cover for why they won’t vote for Biden/Harris or Harris/xxxx. Isn’t CRT enough? Damn.

  285. 285.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 29, 2021 at 7:17 pm

    @Brachiator:

    So it is like Kamala was a cop.

    No, I wouldn’t say so. Kamala Harris is aware of the problems with police departments and their internal cultures, I’d say. She’s actually progressive imo.

    How is this a bad thing?

    I suppose, given that it’s a series about fighting racist and fascist power structures, it can come across as tone deaf making your MC and freedom fighter a cop

  286. 286.

    Kalakal

    December 29, 2021 at 7:18 pm

    @Ruckus: That’s right , made Duke of Lachrimosa and father of King Imbroglio the muddled

  287. 287.

    trollhattan

    December 29, 2021 at 7:19 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: 
    Genuinely flattered by the comparison! Alas, I’m no NYT Pitchbot, just a humble blog commenter.

  288. 288.

    Roger Moore

    December 29, 2021 at 7:19 pm

    @NotMax:

    Can’t really be pedantic about it as 12 is a prime age for mistaken assumptions.

    12 is absolutely not prime anything.  11 is prime and 13 is prime, but 12 is highly composite. /s

  289. 289.

    trollhattan

    December 29, 2021 at 7:24 pm

    @sab: ​Can I just pile on how great it is that for the first time in two years, California isn’t continuously on fire? Actually trending toward my, “Sombitchin’ rain, when will it stop?” mode, but then remember what things were like at the beginning of the month. (We went from something like 17% of average snowpack for the date to 158% last midnight.) Not out of the woods yet, but we can see some unburnt woods from here.

  290. 290.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 29, 2021 at 7:24 pm

    @Woodrow/asim: I thought “Tick Tick… Boom” was kind of bad, but I blame its late author/protagonist the Rent guy for that…

  291. 291.

    Ruckus

    December 29, 2021 at 7:25 pm

    @sab:

    Thank You!

    I’m not sure it’s my rain but still, I’ll take what I can get. And I am sharing it with a few million friends….

  292. 292.

    Ruckus

    December 29, 2021 at 7:26 pm

    @Kalakal:

    OK, I laughed out loud at that!

  293. 293.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 29, 2021 at 7:29 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    The other thing about ASOIAF, is that Martin had never wrote long-form fiction like it before. He had only done tv scripts, short stories, and novellas

  294. 294.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 29, 2021 at 7:34 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Until this latest chapter in her life, I always thought of Rowling as someone who could gracefully take these kinds of criticisms and learn from them.

    Somehow, trans rights was the thing that drove her around the bend. She couldn’t not double down on that. And the odd thing is, all this doesn’t even come from a criticism of her work. Ultimately, as far as I can tell, the whole bizarre British cultural transphobia explosion of the past few years comes from reaction to a criticism of Graham Linehan’s work. Why that? Just why?

    The whole TERF notion of trans women as the vanguard of a male invasion of women’s spaces seems to be part of it, but there are aspects I don’t understand.

  295. 295.

    ETtheLibrarian

    December 29, 2021 at 7:35 pm

    I read that article earlier and it sort of pissed me off.  Mostly because this always happens.  Things that are 5,10, 20 are always end up dorky and uncool at some point sometimes there is nothing deep about it. Sometimes they come back in part to various levels of success. This is the case with fashion where old things always circle back. Or when the young ones hear a remake of an older song and always seem surprised that someone got there first. You can see it with people get to the nostalgia age – they are too old to be young and not always mentally ready for the what comes next. And cultural writers always seem to forget it (or it doesn’t fit into their narrative) even while they acknowledge it.

    The Hamilton thing bothers me a bit. Sure it is of its time period and parts may not age well, but Miranda keyed in on something he was the only person to see, and he wanted to flesh it out and ran with it. The story he put out is the one that came out in the framework he wanted to use – the musical which is clearly the art form he loves (he didn’t write a play he wrote a musical) using music he loves (rap/show tunes).

    If people want to take on slavery and the founding fathers on the Broadway stage through whatever framework they want, they should do that (the founding fathers are a rich trove of drama). Personally, a musical centered around slavery or even touching too much on it, would have been hitting too close to minstrel-ism for me to be comfortable with. But I am not creative and someone with talent could maybe walk that line.

  296. 296.

    Woodrow/asim

    December 29, 2021 at 7:36 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Was referring to the discussion of slavery in Hamilton, specifically. No matter the intent of the entire play, that’s a position that really should be engaged directly, given the cast’s makeup.

  297. 297.

    Ruckus

    December 29, 2021 at 7:36 pm

    @trollhattan:

    Can’t remember the part of CA you live in but here in eastern LA county, if I could see the mountains 4-5 miles away, they would have snow. And given the temps I’ll bet there will be just a bit more the next time they are visible.

    OTOH I do have to wear a rain jacket on my daily 2 mile walk, although I’ve managed to avoid all but extremely lite sprinkles.

  298. 298.

    Woodrow/asim

    December 29, 2021 at 7:37 pm

    @louc: @Woodrow/asim the song Cabinet Battle 3 is in the official soundtrack and the Mixtape version.

    You are correct. I forgot that in my mad rush to try to stop writing, sometime this decade. :)

  299. 299.

    trollhattan

    December 29, 2021 at 7:46 pm

    @Ruckus: ​We’re in Sac Valley.

    I’ve been in the LA basin in winter and the San Gabriels covered in snow on a clear day is an amazing thing. (Especially having seen actual yellow air there on prior trips.)

    Checked and last year on this date we had received a whopping 2.4 inches of rain that season. This year it’s 14 and counting, average 5.6. Basement sump works!

  300. 300.

    Jinchi

    December 29, 2021 at 7:47 pm

    @Brachiator: Are the Potter novels out of date and can we blame Obama?

    I don’t get why Harry Potter would be associated with Obama. The last book of the series was published before he was elected and the first five movies were released pre-Obama as well.

  301. 301.

    prostratedragon

    December 29, 2021 at 7:48 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:  Not everyone is.

  302. 302.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 7:52 pm

    @prostratedragon: Clearly not.

  303. 303.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 29, 2021 at 7:54 pm

    @prostratedragon:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Just to clear things up, I wasn’t paying much attention to the trial so I didn’t know where it was

  304. 304.

    Brachiator

    December 29, 2021 at 7:56 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    RE: So it is like Kamala was a cop.

    No, I wouldn’t say so. Kamala Harris is aware of the problems with police departments and their internal cultures, I’d say. She’s actually progressive imo.

    But the phony ass criticism implied that Kamala Harris could only be authentic if she had been a defense attorney.  And that she had to fight the system, not be part of it in any way.

    The faux criticism of Harry Potter for being a “cop” is similarly disingenuous bullshit.

    Also, this kind of bullshit insists that an imaginary world must only be viewed as an allegory of the real world.

    And lastly, imposing this on a children’s novel is ridiculous.

    It is on the order of blasting “Green Eggs and Ham” because the characters in the story are not proper vegans.

  305. 305.

    rikyrah

    December 29, 2021 at 7:57 pm

    @The Dangerman:

    ????

  306. 306.

    Roger Moore

    December 29, 2021 at 7:57 pm

    @Kalakal:

    A couple of exceptions

    The big exception is that English monarchs have usually been more than fair to their younger siblings, even though those siblings are rival claimants.  Even when the younger siblings have shown they aren’t trustworthy (e.g. John rebelling against Richard I) their older siblings have usually refrained from bumping them off.  This has been repaid.  No younger sibling of an English monarch has been strongly implicated in killing off their older sibling to usurp the crown since Henry I.  The closest was Richard III, who didn’t kill off his older brother but does seem to be the prime suspect in the deaths of his nephews.

  307. 307.

    Benw

    December 29, 2021 at 8:05 pm

    @Ohio Mom: thanks! yay for everyone in your fam being fully boostered!

    @Dan B: yes!

  308. 308.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    December 29, 2021 at 8:08 pm

    @Brachiator:

    I think you’re points are fair and I honestly agree with them. “HP is a cop” was the one argument I felt least strongly about

  309. 309.

    prostratedragon

    December 29, 2021 at 8:10 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):  To be clear, wasn’t thinking of you there. Lived in the place long enough to know what some folk think.

  310. 310.

    Tony Jay

    December 29, 2021 at 8:14 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    I suppose, given that it’s a series about fighting racist and fascist power structures, it can come across as tone deaf making your MC and freedom fighter a cop

    Given that racism and fascism are bad things, and the MC in question is the poster boy for opposing and defeating both, surely him joining the Aurors (and eventually becoming the Head Auror, if a pretty shit one) is at the same time, a) what any civilised culture should want to see happen and, b) unexpectedly realistic for a ‘kid’s book’?

    Unless we’re supposed to think that Harry should have gone on from vanquishing Voldemort to spearhead a ‘defund the Aurors’ campaign and not rested until the Magical World had no trained law-enforcers at all… for reasons?

  311. 311.

    Roger Moore

    December 29, 2021 at 8:15 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: ​
     
    I think a lot of what grates about the Harry Potter franchise is what it came close to doing but never quite managed to do. For example, it’s nice that Rowling recognizes that the British isles are a multi-racial, multi-cultural place, but she somehow never managed to make any of her minority characters really important to the plot. Harry had a Chinese-Scottish girlfriend for about half a book, but then they broke up and he eventually found a nice white girl. That was the closest they came to having a minority character who was actually significant.
    Similarly, she came close to having the books be really good on LGBTQ+ issues but didn’t manage to do it. Dumbledore was canonically gay, but we only found that out in something Rowling said after the books were out. Similarly, a lot of people read werewolves as a metaphor for being in the closet, but she never followed up on that. I think that last one is why trans people are so angry about her TERFdom. They thought she was on their side, so finding out she isn’t feels like a real betrayal.

  312. 312.

    JML

    December 29, 2021 at 8:16 pm

    I’ve read all of The Wheel of Time (some books of which I loved, some I hated, and some which were padded out so much I wondered if the author had forgotten his own plot) and it’s made the amazon show frustrating. At times it’s been a wonderful interpretation (the Shadar Logoth episode was a highlight for me) and done a lot of things really well. Other times, they’ve changed things so radically (and without me being able to understand the reasons, other than “the producers/writers wanted to”) that I wanted to scream.

    I get that to adapt something this big and sprawling there will have to be things cut out, characters combined, plots streamlined or ignored, etc. And in this case, it looks like some changes were made because an actor may have quit late in? But there’s stuff that they just invented out of whole cloth that I just don’t understand, unless it’s the old Hollywood insistence that fantasy books must be improved upon by them because the source material is just silly fantasy novels that need real writers & auteurs to be worthy of film.

  313. 313.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    December 29, 2021 at 8:23 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: With you there.

  314. 314.

    Matt McIrvin

    December 29, 2021 at 8:24 pm

    @Roger Moore: The treatment of non-British cultures is full of lazy stereotypes too. Wacky-accent dialogue, poorly researched names.

  315. 315.

    Citizen Alan

    December 29, 2021 at 8:35 pm

    @Cacti: Billions, wasn’t it? I’d thought she’d crossed the B marker years ago and was the richest woman in Britain not living in Buckingham Castle.

  316. 316.

    Miss Bianca

    December 29, 2021 at 8:36 pm

    OMFG, I started reading that fucking article this afternoon and almost threw my computer out the window, I was that enraged. Did.not.finish.

  317. 317.

    Miss Bianca

    December 29, 2021 at 8:38 pm

    @Baud:

    Also, too, I miss Mnemosyne.

    Me too.

  318. 318.

    Tehanu

    December 29, 2021 at 8:50 pm

    Ted Lasso is the collective liberal fantasy of who Joe Biden could be

    In whose mind? It always amazes me how these people think they can read minds and how totally off they are about everything.

  319. 319.

    Geminid

    December 29, 2021 at 8:59 pm

    @Miss Bianca: I’ve gotten to where I just don’t read opinion pieces any more. I guess I may miss a good one every now and then. But there is plenty of good reporting out there and reading it is a better use of time, I think.

  320. 320.

    Citizen Alan

    December 29, 2021 at 9:05 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    More like the head of the antiterrorism unit assigned to go after the KKK and the Proud Boys. And I am mildly nauseated by the level of “edgy contrarianism for its own sake” it takes to dismiss a character raised for ten years in conditions of  horrific deprivation and abuse as “a trust fund jock.”

  321. 321.

    Citizen Alan

    December 29, 2021 at 9:11 pm

    @Brachiator:

    I don’t know about the antisemitism, veiled or otherwise.

    I think that comes from the theory that the Goblins are “magical demihuman Jews.” There was also that self-own where people complained that there were no Jewish characters, and JKR pointed to Anthony Goldstein, a character who never had a single line in a 7-book long allegory about the evils of Nazism.

  322. 322.

    Kalakal

    December 29, 2021 at 9:12 pm

    @Roger Moore: Thats true amongst brothers, Richard the III was extremely loyal to his brother, and Henry II was amazingly forgiving of his sons.  There was a heck of a lot of cousin on cousin violence. A case of successful usurpation would be Henry IV taking out Richard II with dire consequences for Richard. An unsuccessful case would be Arthur of Brittany trying to oust his uncle John with particularly horrible consequences for Arthur ( John could be a right bastard ). The War of the Roses was a giant family feud with at least 3 kings being murdered by close relatives and at the the end Henry VII really went to town on potential rivals.A very late case would be Mary II deposing her father James but James got out with his skin intact which was nice for James since he’d beheaded his nephew 5 years earlier for trying to overthrow him

  323. 323.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 9:15 pm

    @Kalakal: There is George, Duke of Clarence, to consider.  Eddy IV’s younger and Dickie III’s older brother.

  324. 324.

    Citizen Alan

    December 29, 2021 at 9:17 pm

    @Brachiator:  Indeed. Harry didn’t just become an Auror, he became the Chief Auror and canonically was credited with reforming what up to that point had been an incredibly corrupt law enforcement organization.

  325. 325.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 9:18 pm

    @Citizen Alan: So…  Merrick Garland?

  326. 326.

    Citizen Alan

    December 29, 2021 at 9:22 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Hermonie is one of the few to speak up about the house elves being slaves and I think she was ridiculed for it or at least not taken seriously by the other characters.

    What bothers me about it was that Hermione was ridiculed and treated unseriously by the Author. This highly intelligent young woman was apparently unable to understand that the acronym for the Society for the Promotion of Elvish Welfare was SPEW which sounded ridiculous. Her approach to freeing the Hogwarts house elves was to knit mittens and then hide them everywhere so she could trick the house elves into accepting clothes which she assumed would free them. Only after the series ended was there a throwaway line on Pottermore to the effect of “years later, Hermione became an important Ministry official and greatly improved the lives of house elves.” That is the entirety of JKR’s take on house elves as an allegory about the evils of slavery.

  327. 327.

    Citizen Alan

    December 29, 2021 at 9:27 pm

    @Jinchi: If Obama is responsible for Katrina and 9/11, he can be held responsible for the Harry Potter series retroactively becoming evil.

  328. 328.

    Citizen Alan

    December 29, 2021 at 9:33 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    Similarly, a lot of people read werewolves as a metaphor for being in the closet, but she never followed up on that.

    It’s worse than “never following up.” IMO, werewolves were broadly a metaphor for being in the closet but more specifically a metaphor for being HIV positive in a world fully of anti-HIV bigotry. Lycanthropy is a illness that provokes feelings of revulsion in others and can lead to immediately getting fired from your job if your status is discovered. And yet, in the entire series, there are only 2 named werewolves; Remus Lupin, who spends his entire story arc wracked by self-loathing over his condition,  and Fenrir Greyback, the werewolf who infected Lupin out of a perverted desire to inflict his condition on children!

  329. 329.

    Kalakal

    December 29, 2021 at 9:36 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Good one. I’d forgotten about that reputedly rather unpleasant specimen, Eddy really put with a lot from him before finally deciding enough was enough

  330. 330.

    Dan B

    December 29, 2021 at 9:44 pm

    @Ruckus: No. He was the third son’s puppy.  Isn’t it obvious to you?

  331. 331.

    Ken

    December 29, 2021 at 9:51 pm

    @Tony Jay: Well, Harry’s soul was mixed with Voldemort’s for the first eighteen years of his life. Also Harry is technically a revenant. So there’s room for a little uncertainty about his motives in becoming head of the Aurors.

  332. 332.

    Ken

    December 29, 2021 at 9:53 pm

    @Kalakal: Eddy?  But Shakespeare said it was hunchbacked Dick who had Clarence drowned in a butt of malmsey.

  333. 333.

    Ruckus

    December 29, 2021 at 9:58 pm

    @trollhattan:

    I was born in LA and raised in the San Gabriel Valley about 5 miles from where I live now. When I started working I worked just south east of downtown LA, about 24 miles from the San Gabriel mountains and about 3 miles from downtown LA. Back in those days we would rate the days by how far we could see. The mountains? A great day. The tall buildings downtown but not the mountains? A rather bad day.  Not even downtown? Now that was a shitty, smoggy day. Once went to a lecture at USC med school about 1976 or so and one of the things we did was visit the cadaver lab with a 4th yr student and he showed us a lung from his cadaver. The bottom 1/4 was grayish and someone asked if this was a smoker. The answer was no, if this was a smoker then the lung would be all gray/black. This was a local, his lungs were not near as damaged as a smoker’s would be. This was not a fun thing for a local to see/learn, even if you were sure that smog was bad.

  334. 334.

    Ruckus

    December 29, 2021 at 10:09 pm

    @Dan B:

    I’d say there is very little that is obvious to me but I thought that people would have assumed that long ago…….

  335. 335.

    Kalakal

    December 29, 2021 at 10:12 pm

    @Ken: Naw. That was just a drinking contest that got a little out of hand. Dick mispoke and his emails were qoted out of context. It was Eddy that had the laptop

  336. 336.

    PJ

    December 29, 2021 at 10:21 pm

    @Baud: It’s pretty bad.  Terrible writing in general.  Most of the main characters (the five young people) are severely underdeveloped for most of the series (the two young women do get fleshed out a little more), and a lot of their motivations and actions are barely sketched out.  Casting seems to have been based on how well the actors would look in an Abercrombie & Fitch ad.  The guys playing Rand seems to have one expression (“peeved”) and the guy playing Perrin also has one (“just woke up” or maybe “drugged”), but the bad writing can’t help there.  Pike does wonders with this shit, but she’s a pro.  Bad CGI, costumes look they are brand new, and sets look like no one ever set foot in them before shooting started.  Pacing is off.  We spend a lot of time with characters who seem to have not much to do with the story (e.g., SPOILER: the work husband guy who’s very sad after his work wife dies), while the the relationships between the main characters are underdeveloped, so it’s hard to care much when things go awry or characters go their separate ways.

  337. 337.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 29, 2021 at 10:52 pm

    @Ken: Shakespeare was a Tudor propagandist.  Don’t get me wrong, he was good, but his histories are … slanted.

  338. 338.

    Kalakal

    December 29, 2021 at 11:10 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Very true. Also the main “evidence” against crookback Dick was put together by Thomas More who at the time was Henry VIII’s chief henchbeing. The Tudor’s legitimacy was pretty dodgy so they built up Richard as a monster. Shakespeare as a propagandist made Goebbals look like a beginner. He really was brilliant

  339. 339.

    different-church-lady

    December 30, 2021 at 12:06 am

    Basically, anyone who uses the term “cringe” is wasting their brain cells.

  340. 340.

    Amir Khalid

    December 30, 2021 at 1:53 am

    >@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
    My thoughts on the whole house elves thing in Goblets of Fire: it was a kind of case study in how not to do political activism. Hermione makes a lot of the classic errors: making her campaign about humans first; failing to listen to what house elves really needed and wanted; not even trying to work up an argument that freeing elves was better for both humans and elves; not giving her movement an immediately appealing name (she called it S.P.E.W.). I think it’s to set up a contrast with how much more successfully Harry puts together Dumbledore’s Army in the next book.

  341. 341.

    lol chikinburd

    December 30, 2021 at 2:47 am

    @different-church-lady: THANK YOU.  I just skimmed 300-some comments looking for some sign of this place’s unrepentant-olds conceit, and finally somebody points out how self-parodizing the use of “cringe” as an adjective has become.

    And let’s not talk about that other c-word of recent coinage to yell at clouds about, where “clouds” means the dumb faces that don’t register that the word “denial” has as many letters and syllables, has been around for a long time meaning the same damn thing, and still works at least as well as your shiny neologism might have the first eight thousand damn times you said it.  Glad to get that off my chest, somewhere, at long last.

  342. 342.

    Chris

    December 30, 2021 at 4:11 am

    @Baud:

    In any event, aren’t millenials like 40 years old now?

    I feel like the popular perception of a “kids these days” stereotype was Boomer for a straight forty years until it finally became Millennial about a decade ago.  And similarly, I fully expect the stereotypical Kid These Days to remain a Millennial all the way through to the mid century mark.

  343. 343.

    Chris

    December 30, 2021 at 4:13 am

    @Sean:

    It’s especially odd regarding Ted Lasso, which is just an experiment in portraying kindness as normal and virtuous in and of itself.

    It says a lot that people see a portrayal of generic kindness and immediately assume he’s supposed to be a liberal portrait.

  344. 344.

    Chris

    December 30, 2021 at 4:17 am

    @Matt McIrvin:

    @zhena gogolia: A little while back there was some Twitter thread about “what celebrity will you not be surprised when it turns out they’re CIA?” and about half of the people in the thread said “Lin-Manuel Miranda.”

    It’s also unintentionally funny in that exactly how often have you known a celebrity to turn out to be CIA?

  345. 345.

    Chris

    December 30, 2021 at 4:22 am

    @Jinchi:

    What makes it bizarre is that when house-elf enslavement is originally presented in book 2, there’s none of that “they want to be enslaved” shit.  You only meet one house-elf, but it seems to set up a fairly straightforward example of “there is injustice and prejudice in the wizarding world, and the people who are the most into it are Wizard-Hitler’s supporters, it’s bad, and freeing the slave is a happy ending.”

    It’s only in book 4 that the subject comes back and that Rowling suddenly decides to introduce this “actually house-elves WANT to be slaves” twist that retroactively makes Dobby a weirdo exception.

    Apparently she got enough backlash from that that by the time of book 7 she decides to sort of split the difference.

  346. 346.

    Chris

    December 30, 2021 at 4:34 am

    @Brachiator:

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    RE: So it is like Kamala was a cop.

    No, I wouldn’t say so. Kamala Harris is aware of the problems with police departments and their internal cultures, I’d say. She’s actually progressive imo.

    But the phony ass criticism implied that Kamala Harris could only be authentic if she had been a defense attorney.  And that she had to fight the system, not be part of it in any way.

    The faux criticism of Harry Potter for being a “cop” is similarly disingenuous bullshit.

    I think people also forget just how recent the popularization of ACAB suspicion of the police is.  (And, heck, how unpopular it is even now).  Up until the early 2010s, making your hero a cop would largely not have been seen as suspect or at odds with liberal values.  Heck, there’s a fair amount of fiction that’s liberal as hell while still having police protagonists.

  347. 347.

    Chris

    December 30, 2021 at 4:40 am

    @Tony Jay:

    Given that racism and fascism are bad things, and the MC in question is the poster boy for opposing and defeating both, surely him joining the Aurors (and eventually becoming the Head Auror, if a pretty shit one) is at the same time, a) what any civilised culture should want to see happen and, b) unexpectedly realistic for a ‘kid’s book’?

    I mean, that’s where fiction and reality part.  Within the world of the books, being a cop (Auror) is clearly completely compatible with being an antifascist (fighting dark wizards), and, arguably, the most logical way to do so in a career setting.

    That’s one blind spot that I think is very widespread across pop fiction.  Stories that portray societies falling into fascism or about to, even if they’re otherwise pretty perceptive, always assume that there’ll be some sort of security organ (the Aurors, the Jedi, SHIELD) that’s so dedicated to preserving democracy and fighting fascism that the fascists will either have to destroy it or at least thoroughly and violently purge it in order for their takeover to work.  Which… simply isn’t how it works: police organs are where you tend to get a lot of the strongest support for fascism, not the strongest opposition, and the successful takeovers happen precisely because they (and a few other power centers like the courts) simply allow them to happen.

  348. 348.

    Chris

    December 30, 2021 at 4:44 am

    @Roger Moore:

    Harry had a Chinese-Scottish girlfriend for about half a book, but then they broke up and he eventually found a nice white girl.

    I’m still very amused that I correctly anticipated who would end up with who when I was an eleven-year-old who knew nothing about either Harry Potter or (either real or fictional) romance, but was handed a copy of Chamber of Secrets, read it, and was like… “well, Ron and Ginny are siblings so clearly they can’t end up together, that means Ron has to end up with Hermione and Ginny has to end up with Harry.”

  349. 349.

    Chris

    December 30, 2021 at 4:51 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    Hermione is an outsider, who comes from a world where slavery is at least theoretically reviled by everyone and considered evil, and it’s so self-evident that she really struggles with even having to explain why slavery is bad.

    Which I appreciate.  I remember some guy showing up in the comments section here years ago who was appalled to learn that American waiters have to live from tips, and was shocked enough by it to tear us all a new one for participating in such an inhuman system.  Obviously, the guy needed to calm the fuck down and consider that you’re not going to help anyone, not even the waiters, just because a few of us suddenly stop tipping or stop eating out.  And yet I couldn’t help but appreciate his viscerally negative reaction on some level, because really, that’s how we all should be reacting to that kind of idea.

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