Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. do not touch it.”

When I was faster i was always behind.

All hail the time of the bunny!

People are weird.

There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

Bark louder, little dog.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

One way or another, he’s a liar.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

With all due respect and assumptions of good faith, please fuck off into the sun.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

“Perhaps I should have considered other options.” (head-desk)

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

“But what about the lurkers?”

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

You are here: Home / Balloon Juice / Puppet Show and John Cole Interview

Puppet Show and John Cole Interview

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I did an hour-long deep dive into the highs and lows of Balloon Juice over the years with the blog’s founder, John.

It will make you laugh, make you cry, and you might even learn a thing or two.

Here is just the audio if the picture is annoying.

Reader Interactions

193Comments

  2. 2.

    Miss Bianca

    OMG, I am going to be listening off and on whilst I make cottage pie and chop wood and dig out the driveway, but oh, man…I’m already LMAO at JC saying, “I think you were trolling me by 2005” and had to stop so I could breathe.

    DougJ, I don’t think I ever truly appreciated your particular talents when you were a more regular presence on the blog. That’s all I got to say for now.

  3. 3.

    Ryan

    Don’t I remember an interview some time ago where Cole regretted choosing Balloon Juice because of the abbreviation that might result?

  4. 4.

    DougJ

    Thank you.  I think I’m better on Twitter though — blogging requires too long an attention span of writing for me.

  6. 6.

    NotMax

    @Ryan

    because of the abbreviation that might result

    Not quite as entendre laden as the unfortunately named B.J. and the Bear.

    :)

  7. 7.

    Steeplejack

    @DougJ:

    You have really found your métier on Twitter, so I can’t begrudge your absence here. I don’t have an account, just read with my browser, but New York Times Pitchbot is on the short list of must reads. ?

  8. 8.

    oldster

    DougJ,

    Your NYTPitchbot is some of the funniest stuff on Twitter, anywhere.

    And consistently.

    I bet you have a lot of fans inside the NYT, too — everyone who has not yet drunk the Kool aid, and sees what bullshit it is. Some day, you will shame one of them into cancelling a story they were about to run, when they see how stupid it looks through your version.

    Keep up the brilliant work.

  14. 14.

    John Revolta

    DougJ!

    you might even learn a thing or two.

    As my Daddy used to say, you learn something new every day, if you don’t watch out. Still, I believe I’ll chance it! :^)

  15. 15.

    zhena gogolia

    @Scuffletuffle: I did a Zoom lecture that was recorded and put on youtube. Cannot watch it. But what can you do, that’s what I look like and sound like.

  17. 17.

    raven

    @John Cole: From Ruckus in the previous thread!

    One of the greatest aspects of this place is that you’ve listened to yourself and been honest with what you’ve heard

  20. 20.

    Woodrow/asim

    @John Cole: Understood. The only reason I ever think I sound even half-good on recordings is because my Dad was a radio announcer, and I sang gospel as a kid.

    And even with all that, I think I sound horrible whenever I hear myself. *sigh* As someone who listens to his share of pod- and vidcasts, you sound find, I promise.

  22. 22.

    Steeplejack

    My mood today is “giant sloth,” but word comes that we’re under a winter storm warning tonight and tomorrow here in NoVA, with 3–7" of snow predicted overnight, so I need to bestir myself to go to the store and get a few things. Don’t need much, but what I need I really need so that I can hunker down for the next few days (if necessary). Bummer.

  24. 24.

    Jackie

    @John Cole: ? We ALL experience that reaction when listening to ourselves. My sister and I sound exactly alike, so when recorded talking to each other, it’s extremely confusing!

  25. 25.

    Starfish

    I, too, love Oliver Willis. I think I was really late to know about his work. He should have a column much like Alexandra Petri’s.

  27. 27.

    Chris T.

    @raven: Relax and take it easy – the cortisone will make things feel much better fast but they aren’t actually any better that fast. Wait a while to let the inflammation go down before you use it.

  28. 28.

    NotMax

    Now dredging up half-remembered names of blogs of yore. Anyone else an habitu&233; of Bartcop way back when? Acerbic commentary, eye-assaultingly awful site design.

  31. 31.

    NotMax

    Fixy fix.

    Now dredging up half-remembered names of blogs of yore. Anyone else an habitué of Bartcop way back when? Acerbic commentary, eye-assaultingly awful site design.

  36. 36.

    Kropacetic

    @Starfish: I have the same problem listening to recordings of my own voice. For me it’s worry that I’m coming across gay, even though I am. It’s complicated.

  38. 38.

    zhena gogolia

    @HeleninEire:
    Case in point:

    We wanted to understand the challenges and biases that Kamala Harris faces as the nation’s first female and first Black vice-president. So we assembled a panel of white guys named Matt.— New York Times Pitchbot (@DougJBalloon) January 2, 2022

  44. 44.

    Steeplejack

    @raven:

    Ask them what to expect before and after. They do the procedure all the time, you get one rarely, maybe only once. With my recent nutsack surgery, I wish the doc had given me more details about the aftermath and what to expect. At some point he or the post-op nurse did ask me if I had any questions, but I didn’t know enough to know what questions to ask.

  46. 46.

    zhena gogolia

    @Steeplejack: I think docs have some kind of policy not to tell you ahead of time what to expect so you don’t panic. I hate it — I want to know everything.

    I had the P/T guy tell me “You’re overthinking it.” Well, yeah, I’d like to have my right arm back some day, so I want to know exactly what to do.

  48. 48.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @raven: try not getting a second one but if you do have to have a second one, make sure they’re far far apart. You probably already know this but if you’re a diabetic cortisone will make your blood sugars go up for a few days.  They can make you retain fluids so if you cardiac or kidney issues keep an eye out for that. Also, if you have eye issues like glaucoma or cataracts let the doctor know.

  50. 50.

    Steeplejack

    @zhena gogolia:

    Yeah, I think there’s a way to thread that needle. You (the doc) can be realistic without spreading fear, and the happy talk can make it worse if you (the patient) find that your recovery is not going as well as it’s “supposed to.”

    I was (unpleasantly) surprised at how much worse the swelling was after the operation than before—they took stuff out, right?—and how long it took before the swelling even started to go down. Would have been good to know. But, hey, now I’ve got this useful information for an operation that I hope I never need to have ever again.

  53. 53.

    Starfish

    John, were the Disciples of Christ the ones who do not believe in pianos accompanying vocals in church?

  54. 54.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Scuffletuffle:  Hey, give me back my voice and intonation! An ex once told me that I spoke like John Malcovich in Dangerous Liaisons.  She then said she didn’t mean it as a compliment.  OTOH, I don’t know of any other way of interpreting it.

  58. 58.

    Starfish

    Thurston guest appearance! I love this

    “Baud makes me laugh almost every day.” — John Cole

  61. 61.

    Emma

    Great talk!  I never comment but I’ve been a left blogosphere lurker since the preznit giv me turkee days.  One other great oughts blog not mentioned was Sadly, No!  A great wingnut mockery site – their roasts of Jonah Goldberg were so epic.  Amazingly, looks like their archives all the way back to June 2003 are still online.

    Also, thought it was a bit funny DougJ remarking that blog comment sections were mostly full of men.  Tell me you weren’t a reader of any of the many oughts feminist blogs without telling me!  Pandagon post-Jesse, Feministe, Feministing, Shakesville (before it went off the rails), Jezebel…  And many of the writers of those blogs have gone on to be career authors and columnists.

    Anyway, love NYTPitchbot on Twitter!

  63. 63.

    Cephalus Max

    This was wonderful. (And I made it all the way through.) Thanks to Dougj and John for doing this.

    There were a couple of blog things I’d totally forgotten about that I’m now going to Google and re-read.

    And Cole…  We all sound horrible to ourselves when heard in a recording.

  68. 68.

    raven

    @Steeplejack: My surgeon this spring was good. He minimized the “24hrs flat on your back” and, while it sucked at the time, it wasn’t all that bad. He also said the surgery was worth a try given all the other stuff I tried but it was 50/50 whether it would solve my problem. It didn’t.

  69. 69.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @John Cole: I listened to a recording of my voice a year or 2 ago and was very surprised at the noticeable hillbilly twang I had picked up over the last 20 years. Not what I was expecting.

  73. 73.

    mvr

    @DougJ: Like you on Twitter, but do miss you around here. The mixture of music references and stuff to say was amusing to me. The twitter is amusing too, but I kind of like a mix.

  77. 77.

    NotMax

    BTW WaterGirl, thanks for removing the media recommendations from the sidebar. They were getting pretty long in the tooth (many titles no longer streaming where they were if at all).

  78. 78.

    FlyingToaster

    I made it through the whole hour; since what I needed to do was kill an hour until the ingredients are at room temperature (baking), no, I didn’t have anything better (that I wanted) to do.

    My favorite part was at the end:

    DougJ:  Any final words of wisdom?

    JGC: Why start now?

  81. 81.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: I grew up and mostly lived in STL until I was 43. I had to move out here in 2001 when my ex’s husband went after my eldest. Living and working around/with a bunch of hillbillies for 20 years one just picks it up without even knowing it. My Minnesota sister sounds so damned Minn-a-soo-ta one could be forgiven for thinking she’s a native.

  82. 82.

    Starfish

    @zhena gogolia: That’s good to know.

    I grew up in an area where I occasionally went to a church service with various people. Most of them were Southern Baptist, but then it got weirder from there. I did not see some of the weirdest stuff, but I was not that far removed from it.

  83. 83.

    The Dangerman

    I read (ok, Power Browse) RedState and Kos (Tom Tomorrow!). Goodness gracious sakes alive (h/t Coach Wooden), there are some serious assholes at RedState. I mean, I enjoy a decent debate from the Right but the firehouse of shit is appalling. I read it because of the need to know what the other side is thinking (or not thinking as the case may be).

  86. 86.

    NotMax

    @OzarkHillbilly

    When was in first grade I suddenly developed a decided Noo Yawk twang. Parents were so concerned they arranged to meet with the schoolteacher and dragged me along. She began (imagine Fran Drescher voice times a thousand) by saying, “I caaan’t understaaand where he picked it up.”

    ;)

  92. 92.

    VOR

    For the record, I enjoyed Angry Black Lady as a blogger. I like a different perspective every now and then.

  95. 95.

    John Cole

    @FlyingToaster: every now and then I come up with a one liner

    I remember feeling like I could not articulate what I was thinking very well throughout the entire hour and wondered to myself if after two years of exile I am not used to talking anymore.

  98. 98.

    debbie

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I used to manage a nationwide sales force (around 25 to 30 clowns), and I talked to each of them two or three times a week at least. A coworker pointed out that my dialect changed from call to call. If she wasn’t lying, it certainly wasn’t intentional on my part.

  99. 99.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @debbie: Yeah, I’ve heard of other people doing that too. It’s not a thing we are conscious of, our brains just do it.

  102. 102.

    bemused senior

    On the interview  subject of why so many blogs disappeared, I think a lot has to do with the disappearance of Google Reader.  Instead, people put their blogs on platforms like medium. and of course facebook, or left a bunch of individual places that you had to set up to visit serially to see if there was activity.

  103. 103.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    Fun interview. I don’t know how I found this place but I’m glad i did.  It’s been about 12+ years for me. Yikes.  I can’t Fucking believe the trip that JC and ABl was 10 years ago.  Holy shite!

  104. 104.

    Nukular Biskits

    Late to the game, as usual.
    Kudos and congrats to all who have made and continue to make this happen!

    v/r

  107. 107.

    Starfish

    @zhena gogolia: We should leave the unwillingness to take criticism to the Republican dead-enders. Criticism given in the spirit of making you better at what you do, should always be taken graciously.

  108. 108.

    Kropacetic

    @raven: Sometimes, yes, in a sense. I think it draws from the feeling that all my 90s high school classmates are judging me for sounding like that.

  109. 109.

    zhena gogolia

    @Starfish: Criticism that can be acted upon is helpful. The MSM doesn’t give Dems a chance to repeat pithy talking points because they don’t invite them on.

  112. 112.

    zhena gogolia

    @Starfish: Right. I rest my case.

    I will put up the rhetorical skills of Schiff, Demings, Swalwell, Ryan and Jeffries against any Repug you can name. But how often are they invited?

  113. 113.

    The Dangerman

    I’ll nominate my favorite posts as:

    1) I think it’s called meta, but all comments were things like “insert pet picture here”. Laughed to tears.

    2) The one about TP and rather it goes over or under.

    Funny that the classics to me have nothing to do with current events or politics.

  116. 116.

    debbie

    @Starfish:

    Funny, these tired eyes first read that as “Manchin is open to reneging on the climate,” but I’m thinking I may be prescient.

  118. 118.

    brantl

    The reason you’ve gotten a lot of women on the blog, is both listening in order to inform your opinions, but that you listen to your commenters, and respond to their challenges.

  119. 119.

    debbie

    @zhena gogolia:

    Funny about that. Republicans are in power, only Republicans get air time. Democrats are in power, only Republicans get air time.

    What’s wrong with this picture? ??‍♀️  //

  120. 120.

    Miss Bianca

    @John Cole: Nice tag at the end, there, JC – “And if you’ve made it all the way through this, you really need to reassess your priorities.”

    LOL – I feel so *owned* now!

  125. 125.

    Brachiator

    @debbie:

    A coworker pointed out that my dialect changed from call to call. If she wasn’t lying, it certainly wasn’t intentional on my part.

    The only similar concession I made was to talk faster with some New York and New Jersey customers. Some of them had this thing where they thought that people in California, where we were located, and people with Southern accents talked too slow and were too laid back. They just viewed this negatively.

    Oddly enough, we had customers in Hawaii who sometimes sounded more laid back than Californians.

  126. 126.

    phdesmond

    i’m three minutes from the end of the conversation.  i had to reboot.

    impressive!  swept with nostalgia and admiration and pride.

    DougJ, you’re great!  John, thank you for starting this blog.

  127. 127.

    Ruckus

    There are a lot of people who no longer comment/with us, that are very missed.

    My number one is ever fucking gold man.

    Also some have asked the reason I chose ruckus as my handle. From a dictionary:

               a disturbance or commotion.

             “a child is raising a ruckus in class”

  129. 129.

    drlemur

    One of the things that I think distinguishes BJ from other internet sources is the willingness to not push for outrage everyday.  Click-based/advertising dependent sites need some new source of energy to draw attention every day.

    Here it’s ok to just chill some days, post pet pictures and talk gardening or recipes.  It’s a really big difference in overall feel over the years.  It reduces outrage fatigue and you avoid charging down the rabbit hole chasing daily clicks, which I suspect is the biggest reason for the loss of quality in a lot of places that used to be pretty good reading.  You can make a lot of money if you can consistently draw attention, but eventually you end up mired in increasingly crazy conspiracy theories trying to get today’s new hot take to be visible on the social media platforms.

    Sometimes you don’t need to be more angry, you just want to chill with the pets.

  138. 138.

    LeftCoastYankee

    Reminds me of a play.

    • Co-worker:  “How was the meeting?”
    • Me:  “That’s an hour of my life I’ll never get back.”

    JK, it was pretty interesting.  Thanks, Gents.

  142. 142.

    Alison Rose

    For me, I’ll say that a reason I love it here as a woman is that the men here–including John and the other FPers, as well as the vast majority of male commenters–are not just vaguely in support of “women’s rights” but actively care about the issues and understand how important it is to fight for them. In addition, y’all freely understand your male privilege and that your experience of the world as cis men is vastly different and easier than it is for others, and you don’t take that for granted. It’s a very welcoming atmosphere, as opposed to most male-heavy blogs (even, and sometimes especially, liberal ones).

  143. 143.

    WaterGirl

    @zhena gogolia: Not crazy about the “Affordable Care Act sucks, either”.

    It has issues, but millions more people have access to health care, perfect or not.

    John Cole has some ‘splainin’ t do! :-)

  147. 147.

    Starfish

    @WaterGirl:

    It is crappy high deductible insurance that people are paying into every month. Asking people to pay the co-insurance after making their monthly premiums when they are in a crappy situation where they don’t have quality insurance through their work is leaving a bunch of people making just above the subsidy level unable to afford medical care or their medications or in a position where they can afford either the doctor or the medication but not both.

    It will help people who get hit by a bus or get cancer, but beyond that it is not putting people in a system where they do not get regular medical care or trust their doctors.

    People in states that did not do expansion think ACA drove up the cost of prescription drugs and did zero for them.

    The way that people do not have regular doctors and do not trust medicine left us in the hell-state we are in now with a bunch of vocal anti-vax nonsense contributing to the ongoing pandemic.

  159. 159.

    phdesmond

    @raven:

    i was going in for a spinal injection thursday, but i canceled it last week.

    told the young woman, “pop a cork for me.”

  162. 162.

    phdesmond

    @raven:

    because of the rocketing omicron rate in mass. and cambridge in particular, and because of the odds against any success from the injection.

  163. 163.

    raven

    @phdesmond: Got it! I’m concerned about both as well but I’m really hoping something helps me improve. The worrisome thing for me is that the MRI’s show that my lower spine is in really good shape! Why the fuck can’t I walk OR sit like I want???

  164. 164.

    FlyingToaster

    @John Cole: I’d rather you sounded like a human being than a soundbite machine.  You sound pretty normal to the misanthropes at ChezToaster.

  165. 165.

    Ilieitz

    This is why I don’t understand how people figure out that they can sing and other people will like it

  166. 166.

    phdesmond

    @raven:

    if you’re into reading newspaper stories about particular diseases or situations, there was one in the WaPo today.  it’s called AS or something.  marginal, elusive, far from the mark — judge for yourself, if you follow that sort of stuff.

    i am not in the medical arena.

  169. 169.

    raven

    @HinTN: Dawg I’ve considered everything. I’ve been to three docs, had surgery for a tethered spinal cord, done PT for over two years and nothing has helped. The prescribing doc is an Osteopath  and we spent an hour talking about my situation after two months of PT at his shop.

  170. 170.

    raven

    @HinTN: My buddy in Berkeley has a son who is a naturopathic doctor and wants me to consult with him. I guess that will be next.

  171. 171.

    Miss Bianca

    @Ilieitz: I’ll tell you something, as a once-and-future singer/radio broadcaster (note to Cole here as well), who still does some recording: you get used to the sound of your own voice. Finally, at some point, it no longer makes you cringe. It may take weeks or it may take years, but finally, you just get used to it.

    And then you *maybe* start to hear what other people find attractive about it.

  172. 172.

    MazeDancer

    What a great interview!  John and Doug come across much more mellow and laid back than expected.

    They both have excellent voices, which are easy listening timbres. (Used to cast voice over announcers),

    It was excellent fun.

    Sorry that it wasn’t video.

  173. 173.

    HinTN

    @raven: Mrs H has back trouble that has not been relieved by a multitude of attempts. Last year I got progressively worse with what presented as pulled muscles in my thigh/groin. Was finally diagnosed as needing a hip replacement. As she listened to my descriptions she decided to ask the orthopaedic surgeon about her issues. Long story short, x-ray said she needed a hip replacement and, while not a miracle cure or panacea, it brought considerable relief to her back pain. YMMV – good luck

    ETA – not all orthopaedic surgeons are created equal!

  175. 175.

    UncleEbeneezer

    I have to push back on the hand-wringing about how awful Dems are on sticking to simple messaging.    Here’s the problem with that: We.  Won’t.  Let.  Them.

    We love to complain about Dems always going high when the GOP goes low.  But we can’t go low.  If there’s a statement that is 95% true and 5% not, guess which part our own voters will focus on obsessively (with the help of MSM?).  See: Hillary’s “Deplorable” comment, for just one of countless examples.  Simple messaging is great but I guarantee that even the best, simple message will cause outrage amongst very online, Progressive Activists who will then make it into a story about how terrible Dems are.  BothSides…etc.  Dems don’t have the luxury of playing fast and loose, I wish they could.  But they can’t.  That’s the reality.  They have to be overly detailed and wonky because that’s what we routinely demand of them.  GOP messaging is easy.  Just throw out some ‘Cism and anti-government freedom talk and you’re good.  Our side is much harder to please.

  179. 179.

    UncleEbeneezer

    I’m so glad the ABL period came up.  Like Cole, the treatment she received here, really helped open my eyes to how much bullshit Black people (especially women) have to put up with, even from well-meaning White people.  And Imani is really, really funny on podcasts, in addition to Twitter.

  180. 180.

    cain

    I loved the interview so far! Interesting no one here has any nostalgia to share.

    2008 though was the best political elections I have ever experienced. It was the greatest reality TV ever. The ups, downs, and all these things happening. It was just fab. All of us at work would daily check the poll numbers. People here would panic here – just so good. The “Everyone Chill the Fuck Out, I got this!” meme kept getting posted. lol.

    When I first joined, the commentariat was more diverse – we are much nicer now than we were back then. There was a guy myiq2xu I think – he was always called goatboy. The punishment we would deal to people who come here and troll would make me laugh so much.

  181. 181.

    cain

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    Me too – she was such a great front pager – and a big nod to Cole for all his work on the spam folder and what not. I saw some of teh comments – but most of the time I didn’t see any of the really vile comments about ABL.

  183. 183.

    Bupalos

    @UncleEbeneezer: its not just the extremeky online or far left wing. I think you’ve nailed the basic problem though. The dem coalituon just contains way too many people who arent dumb. The republicans ratio of smart-to-dumb is probably around 1:20. Dems are probably more like 1:4

    Its a massive structural disadvantage given that swing voters that decide elections probably have a 1:100 ratio. Republicans are much more naturally adept at generating what these plants crave.

  184. 184.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Bupalos: Well and the Dem Coalition has a bunch of groups who have routinely been ignored and aren’t going to tolerate that from Dems, which is a good thing.  They hold our politicians accountable the way they should.  Sometimes it can get frustrating by making things much more complex for our side, but honestly I wouldn’t have it any other way.  It’s one of the reasons I’m on this side.

  185. 185.

    Another Scott

    @UncleEbeneezer: I don’t know if “we” won’t let them, but the MSM certainly won’t.

    I’m sure DougJ remembers Obama’s Lie of the Year (according to Politifact):

    President Obama’s oft-repeated promise that “if you like your health care plan, you can keep it” is 2013’s “lie of the year,” according to the fact checkers at the Tampa Bay Times’ nonpartisan PolitiFact project.

    “Nonpartisan” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, as we know.

    DougJ is very sharp and funny and clever, and he knows how bad the press is in reporting on Democrats. I was surprised a bit by his comments on Democratic messaging and so forth. There’s more that can be done – everyone can always do better – but the people in the trenches know the structural impediments…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  187. 187.

    CaseyL

    @debbie: That was my initial read, too

    Thanks, DougJ and John, for the interview. Some bittersweet moments for sure.  Trips down memory lane make me want to quote Bob Seger, “I wish I didn’t know now what I didn’t know then.”

  189. 189.

    Morzer

    Raising a small, virtual glass to the manic spirit of that most self-confident of cudlips: Matoko-chan.

  190. 190.

    navarro

    you folks brought up a point i’ve thought about a lot over the years regarding the idea that “there are no atheist soup kitchens”. i’m an agnostic, and have been for decades. the main reason i don’t claim to be an atheist is that i don’t have enough information to be certain that there is no god.

     

    regardless, if i ever have enough money to get the ball rolling, i plan to start either a non-religious soup kitchen or a non-religious homeless shelter. i think it’s truly disappointing that such institutions don’t seem to exist.

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