Regarding Senator Sinema’s words, yesterday: I would muse on the…universality, if you will, of the toxic approach people like Senator Sinema take in all this. For it reminds me, again, of Dr. King’s words on this kind of person:
I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is:
- more devoted to “order” than to justice,
- who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice,
- who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”,
- who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom,
- who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.”
Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress.
—-King, Martin Luther. “Letter from a Birmingham Jail [King, Jr.].” Upenn.edu, 16 Apr. 1963, www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html.
[Edits mine – MisterDancer]Why does the above matter? Because: There’s a saying in some social justice circles, that what’s needed aren’t Allies. They need Accomplices.
What does that mean? It means people who are willing to not just let go of prejudice, not just willing to address other’s prejudices when it’s convenient for them, but actively engaged in using their privilege to raise people up, and in – at the end of the day – engaged in the life—long work to dismantling their privilege.
They require people who will avoid taking up all the space so that all voices can be heard far more equally, than happens today. They underline that you cannot support a movement, while sucking at the teat of the forces that seek to break that movement.
And so, yesterday, Senator Sinema chose to take up all the space, to take up all the air. She chose to offer a negative peace, over justice.
She, and the other Senators, outspoken and silent, she stands with will say to their last breath, they are Allies. They will insist their stance is about doing the right thing, the right way. That they just can’t agree with the methods for direct action, to protect the stealing of votes. They insist there is time to find another convenient season, to address these issues.
In this, they are not far in words traded in our media from the deeper threat – the GOP who applaud these moves. The ones who see on the horizon a time when their cult of power cannot be broken, and their desire for power will go unchallenged. These are people who have not forgotten the truth of the Dixiecrats: for all their spoken hate of Black and Brown folx (among many others), they needed my ancestors. Jim Crow’s broken-assed economy meant they couldn’t just throw their bodies, or even minds, away. They couldn’t escape the reality, save by lying to everyone about it by claiming Jim Crow as the “moderate” stance, the stance of “good” people.
Indeed, “scientific racism” was invented so that Victorian-era people could feel good about treating groups of people like machines. And to do so while claiming they were Allies to the people they abused, just as slave owners came to say that Black folx were children who required a firm hand…indefinitely.
And that “good feelings first” mentality allowed 1700 of those slave owners to stand in Congress over the centuries. The very same American Congress, the seat of freedom, where Senator Sinema chose to defend their horrors in standing against voting rights.
After all, they were all good moderate people, to be certain. /s
People have always sought a way to be a moderate, a centrist, even in light of much of the worst humanity has done. To retain every bit of their privilege, a thing they “deserve” and have “worked hard for, unlike others”. To hold their space and never yield it, ensuring they and the people they “care” about are always seen as important, now and forever trapped in an amber poured of blood and pain.
There are trials and tribulations to come. And they come, in no small part, from what I’ve written above.
So, to you, the reader who made it through all this ramble: I’m going to try to use my energy here to be a better Accomplice. And I’m working through what that means, considering the current situation. What I can bring to light here to accomplish that mission, and to build connections and community — even if I have to be mean about it, sometimes. :)
Y’all hold me to task, on that, OK?
jeffreyw
Well said.
Roger Moore
I have come to the conclusion that many of the moderates are not people of good will. They’re allies of the outspoken racists, but they’ve decided it’s easier to pretend to oppose racism while actually opposing every step that would do something about it.
To me, the most important test is how people react to obstacles. Those who genuinely want to make progress will see the obstacles, but they’ll focus their reaction on how to deal with them. The fakers will see the obstacles and will either steer directly onto them or use them as an excuse for inaction. Demanding that we make deals with people who have no interest in bargaining is evidence that Sinema is interested in steering us into an obstacle.
ETA: I realize that Dr. King knew exactly what I’m saying above, but he felt he wasn’t in a position to outright condemn white moderates.
SiubhanDuinne
I noted yesterday that Sinema’s speech boiled down to “Sure, I believe in voting rights, but ….”
No, Senator. If you ever find yourself saying “I believe in it, BUT …“ it means you don’t believe in it. Period.
***
Again and again, I’m gobsmacked at how pertinent Dr. King’s words remain, decades after he wrote them.
Baud
I can live with losing elections legitimately. I’ll remain proud of the all but two Dems I’m Congress who stood on the right side of history.
HinTN
@jeffreyw: Agreed, especially this
SpaceUnit
There’s a lot of ‘moderates’ who are all in on racial progress. It’s probably one issue that Democrats can actually agree on.
But the media overlords have declared it to be woke, and therefore something to do with hippies.
Baud
@Roger Moore:
FWIW, I think this is the primary barrier. The moderates know how dedicated the racists are to their cause, and don’t want to rock their social boat.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Yep, I concur.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Excellent point.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
Systemic racism begins at home.
eclare
@SiubhanDuinne: I know. It is as if he had a crystal ball.
Thank you for this post. Forwarded on.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Jamelle Bouie said a couple of years ago that to too many white people in politics and political media, racism is just bad manners. My own corollary to that is, for a lot of white people, it’s not racism if nobody said That Word. So you get Stephanie Ruehle on MSNBC saying, “Not all trump voters are racist! My mom voted for trump, and she’s no racist!” (side note, she had her mother on her show once, and I’d bet a mortgage payment that lady has used the phrase “I don’t have a racist bone in my body, but….”, and more than once).
After yesterday, I’ve been thinking, to too many white people in politics and political media, and the electorate it’s not voter suppression if they don’t see dogs and fire hoses lined up outside polling places.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I believe that’s also current supreme court jurisprudence.
piratedan
regardless of her “reasons”, I prefer to not try and over complicate and over analyze her actions (or that of Joe Manchin). I’ll chalk it up to something simple that we can all grasp…
stupid
corrupt
vain
and none of these are exclusive, they could all be lumped in one package in healthy amounts. While this is especially infuriating in their case, I am constantly reminded, that no one on the other side of the aisle has gifted us with anything experiencing a reciprocal ethical dilemma.
Hoodie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I remember my dad telling me that my grandfather was a “racist fuck.”
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
This is one of those areas where political labels don’t mean that much. Tell me someone is Left, and you tell me nothing reliable about their attitudes toward race, or gender.
For example, the Berniebro Left is largely a pack of useless idiots whose worst aspect is that they claim that class consciousness is everything, while often being as dismissively bigoted as any right wing MAGA dope.
Otherwise, yeah, Sinema and others are big obstacles to progress. It is frustrating trying to find the best way to deal with them.
Ksmiami
This is exhibit A of why history majors> political science. Politics is a day by day sound bite, but through the study of unvarnished history, people like me can understand and come to terms with how racism, greed, pseudoscience and toxic religious beliefs brought us to this point and try to make things better for people who didn’t grow up w privilege etc
Kent
As a teacher I can tell you that is most definitely is NOT the case.
Visit any school district board meeting in any diverse school district when they are addressing school attendance boundaries and watch the desperate flop sweat of all the white “progressives” frantically trying to make sure that little Ethan and Sophia don’t have to go to the “wrong” school.
Or likewise any zoning meeting where affordable housing is on the agenda.
Benw
@SiubhanDuinne: a similar corrollary to the classic, “I’m not a racist, but…”
Dr. King knew who they were because they told him the first time.
Ksmiami
@Brachiator: I think we just have to ignore Sinemanchin at this point and get beyond them. Too much time has been wasted
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: How about losing ONE election legitimately, and all subsequent ones illegitimately?
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
That opens a whole other can of worms, doesn’t it?
RaflW
I can’t know what is in Sinema’s mind, but based on actions, I can no longer ascribe good will to her.
At best, she’s a confused idiot who either has no advisors (a terrible choice at the level of US senator), selected advisors of very poor disposition, or she ignored whoever is in her ‘kitchen cabinet’. At worst, she’s either easily swayed by nonsense, or money or other corrupt means.
Kent
We have to draw a distinction between:
“racism” which is a broad category that includes all manner of systemic injustices, and
”racial hatred” which is all the violent white supremacist KKK neo Nazi type stuff.
A lot of ordinary white folks are of the believe that if they don’t actively HATE black people then they aren’t racist. Of course nothing could be further from the truth.
The Moar You Know
@Kent: as the spouse of a teacher I can say every word you just posted is solid truth. They’ll work with “those people”. They’ll promote “those people”, and insist the work environment be free of prejudice. They’ll mean it, too. They’ll be buddies and go party with “those people”. They don’t even mind having some of “those people” as neighbors, although not too many.
If their kid has to go to school with the kids of “those people”, shit gets real, real fast
ETA: this is the only reason that charter schools get any traction whatsoever. They are shit, corrupt to the core, waste taxpayer dollars, commit outright fraud, and deliver poorly educated kids, and literally everyone knows it, but they offer the option of a school free of “those people”.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ksmiami: Tell me you didn’t study politic science without telling me you didn’t study political science.
SpaceUnit
@Kent:
I guess my experiences are different from yours. And the issues you’re citing are not purely racial.
A good white progressive doesn’t have to be a perfect one.
Baud
@The Moar You Know:
Yeah, CRT showed us how easy it is to induce panic with regard to schooling.
BruceFromOhio
Boy howdy, ain’t that the truth.
Adam
@RaflW: Amy Siskind had a thread on Twitter yesterday. Sinema legitimately thinks that she’s going to run for president, and crap like this is going to make her appealing to voters as some sort of bipartisan something.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam: Dislike can be bipartisan too.
germy
I blame some voters (and non-voters). We could have had a different timeline.
Baud
@Adam:
I don’t know what that’s based on, but it’s ludicrous. She has no chance of winning either party primary. And bipartisanship is a selling point if you use it to make something happen, not to stop bills. If Amy is accurate, Sinema would do it for the grift.
The Moar You Know
@Adam: Figured she would. Trump has shown us all the way to turn running for the presidency into a perfect grift. A LOT of folks are going to try to follow in his fat, squishy footsteps.
I don’t expect her grift to be anywhere near that successful. Sinema is not likeable, still acts like the white trash she came from. Yang, the most recent “centrist” to pull this scam, and not very successfully, at least acts like a member of the ruling class. Sinema doesn’t know how.
Kent
@SpaceUnit: The point is that a lot of white moderate Democratic types are all for racial justice in theory. They put up BLM posters or whatever. And they all “have black friends.” But when it has the potential to affect the “quality” of their local neighborhood school or the property values of their exclusive suburban burb then things change real fast.
Of course it is never couched in racial language. It’s about magnet programs, or GT programs, or French immersion, or whatever special educational quirk they might be losing if too many black kids come to “their” schools. Or it is about traffic or “neighborhood character” or some such if too many brown people might live in their neighborhood.
Another Scott
Excellent post. Thanks.
BlueVirginia.US has excerpts of an interview with Sen. Tim Kaine where he indicates that it’s still an uphill battle, but it’s not over. He sounds more optimistic about the BBBA.
We’ll see!
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
VeniceRiley
@germy: Oh, I love her.
MisterDancer
Hi gang — thanks for the feedback!
Quick suggestion: Dr. King was speaking to a very specific audience, and in a very specific way. I submit he’s being somewhat…sarcastic? in his use of the term “good will,” in this context.
I’d not take its use here, too much on face value. There’s another piece by him, which lays that out in more detail, but that’s for another work, down the road. :)
Roger Moore
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Absolutely. I remember some time not too long after Obama was elected, somebody on the news was talking about how Obama wasn’t completely legitimate because he didn’t win a majority of the white vote. This wasn’t some guest spewing right wing hate; it was an ordinary news person. But when you think about it, requiring that someone win a majority of the white vote to be legitimate is just another way of saying that minority votes are illegitimate. But because they didn’t say it exactly that way, nobody thought anything about it. As long as you say something politely, in an even tone, and ideally while wearing nice clothes, you’re assumed to be serious, no matter how awful the actual content of your statements.
Baud
@Roger Moore:
I remember George Will saying something similar when Bill Clinton won. Not a new concept.
UncleEbeneezer
We’ll said about Accomplice vs. Ally. One thing I’ve learned is that marginalized groups really appreciate people of privilege who prioritize taking a seat and letting THEM speak/lead. Because so few actually do.
Dan B
@Baud: I have in laws who are very wedded to being polite, following rules, and honoring tradition. They gave us an Obama Chia Pet one Christmas. They rail about eco-nazis. They loathe political correctness. But lib-tards pours from their mouths with wicked glee. They scream at us that “Gay marriage is settled law.” as though we should be grateful to our overlords for a few years of generosity. And because we don’t express our tearful gratitude for their “acceptance” of us we must be reprobates with no breeding.
I’ve stayed away from them for many years now. My partner visits because it’s his brother, his wife, and his sister. He reports that they realize why I do not have any interest in seeing them.
When I think of them I begin to think of curses. It is not healthy for me to do so. There are other people who still have hearts that can be steered towards better paths.
UncleEbeneezer
@Roger Moore: To be fair, Will spewed plenty of racist hate every week, he just did it in dog-whistle forms that White People didn’t see as “racist.”
debbie
@Roger Moore:
They have neither good will nor brains. I can’t understand Manchin’s insistence that the Senate’s deliberative nature is only possible when someone can stop all deliberation by crying, “Filibuster!” SImilarly, I find Sinema’s tweeting of “Rest in power” to be inappropriate and offensive.
Suzanne
@Roger Moore:
Well, yeah. Most people want to be comfortable and not avant-garde. They like to fancy themselves as brave, but they aren’t. I include myself in that.
Most people don’t believe in much of anything, really.
debbie
@Adam:
Sinema is Sarah Palin–level awful.
Raoul Paste
I’m through with speculating on Sinema’s motives. She is responsible for a lot of unnecessary suffering in America, and is corrupt trash.
So I’m donating to a wide spectrum of senate candidates, with more money than I usually give. I don’t know if we are at a historical moment here, but I don’t want it to go the wrong way
debbie
@BruceFromOhio:
Oh, good, someone from Ohio. How about that Ohio Supreme Court?!?
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
Yep. The one thing that has become ever more clear to me over time is that race and class are inextricably linked in American society. What I find amazing is that the same people who assure you that class is everything will happily talk about working class Whites as being distinct from working class minorities. It’s not that they’re wrong about that, but that they can’t see how that completely undermines their idea that race is unimportant compared to class. As long as working class Whites really do have different class interest from working class minorities, race will continue to be an important category in our politics.
RaflW
I’m proud of my niece, who in her 9th grade class in rural-ish WI has come out swinging about Puerto Rico. She was attending remotely early this week b/c of Covid in the house when there was a discussion about the possible admission of P.R. as as US state.
The teacher made the (inexcusable, IMO) mistake of saying Puerto Ricans weren’t US citizens. Niece jumped on that one, and forced a correction. But as the students continued to discuss, apparently the vast majority were anti-admission as a state. Niece has been in an uproar.
She’s vacationed in P.R. twice, including just 6 weeks ago. And by total happenstance, she dated a Puerto Rican guy this past summer and fall (now living on the mainland). It was long-distance, introduced through friends online, but driving distance so there were real dates.
She’s back in-person school and wore her fav new Puerto Rico shirt to class today. She’s not letting it go. Her guncles (who’ve hosted the two PR vacays for niece & fam) are pleased with this new, budding social justice outrage. :)
n.b.: Of course all this is subject to what Puerto Ricans themselves ultimately decide they want. She’s just furious that most of her classmates are just a priori ‘no way’ about the question.
Baud
@Dan B:
I don’t engage with people like that because they are always snowflakes who practice their own form of political correctness if you respond in kind to their aspersions. They only want a relationship with you if you are subservient to their culture.
Suzanne
@The Moar You Know:
Sinema grew up Mormon. She acts like she has left the church and is exploring her sexuality, like most of us did in college but she is in her early 40s.
Baud
@RaflW:
Oddly enough, I don’t even think PR would be reliably Dem if they were to become a state (unlike DC).
CaseyL
Sinema wants to be a female Trump, just with marathons and wine-tasting instead of golf. No intention of actually doing any work – she already hardly does any – but getting a lot of attention, being considered a pace-setter, and making major bank with various fundraisers. Maybe a “Show Your Support! Be my Tour de France sponsor, and get a commemorative coin!” side-grift.
Remember, she started out as a Green. That Party, if you can call it one, is built on pure grift and ratfucking.
ETA: I wouldn’t under-rate her chances, either. A lot of GOPers , NeverTrumpers, Greens, and low-information Democratic voters would be happy to support her. She’s attractive, not obviously nuts, and doesn’t really care about policy.
Roger Moore
@The Moar You Know:
ISTR somebody did a study where they looked at the ratings of schools on one of these web sites where people were allowed to say what they thought about the local schools. The ratings were much more closely related to the number of minorities attending the school than they were to measures of academic success. A school that was full of White people and got bad test scores got a much better rating than one that was full of minorities but did well on tests.
Baud
@Suzanne:
I wish she would start exploring Democratic sex on something other than judges.
ETA: Not that I don’t appreciate the judges.
Kristine
Thank you for this post. I’m really glad you’re an FP’er.
Baud
@Kristine:
Seconded.
WaterGirl
@RaflW: The kids are alright. I needed an uplifting political story today, thanks for this one.
Rusty
At the end of the day, Sinema’s behavior and the most racist member of the senate’s behavior accomplished the same thing. To hide behind, “I’m not racist” when your behavior accomplished the same goal is BS.
The Moar You Know
@Dan B: I feel for your spouse; that shit is HARD when it’s family. I just got a big wake up call this week that I’ve essentially lost my mother to FoxWorld. She is willing to burn her life and family down for an ideology that she cannot even articulate and does not understand. But it all sounds good to her. Better than having a relationship with her kids, grandkids.
I underestimated Fox. Really did. That’s some potent shit they sell. Don’t know why they bitch about drug dealers, there’s no dope out there equivalent to the shit they are peddling.
SpaceUnit
@Kent:
I don’t dispute this. I also don’t know how to enlighten people’s attitudes and sensibilities any faster. Human nature is what it is.
I do see things changing though. I see deep virulent racism aligned with one side of our political spectrum far more than when I was young. And for our MSM to work their ‘bothsides’ angle they now have to talk about dumb shit like wokeness in order to avoid calling out the naked racism on display on the right. Maybe it’s a sign of progress and a dam beginning to break.
And I do realize that the glacial pace of progress is what was so frustrating to MLK.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@The Moar You Know: So Sinema is delusional in more ways than one.
I object to the label “moderate” for these people. Being between the two parties is not moderate when one of the parties has descended into madness.
Baud
@The Moar You Know:
I’m sorry about your mom.
RaflW
@Roger Moore: Isn’t it the case that, at the aggregate national level, the Democratic cohort of voters is majority-minority (not even including LGBTQ identity in that tally)?
That, to me, has been the central reason — back to Bill Clinton winning, I think — that the GOP and the broad white privilege apparatus has viewed all Dem wins as ‘illegitimate’.
Professor Bigfoot
The big divide in this country is not and has not been between “left” and “right,” but between those who believe Black people are and should be FULL citizens of this country with ALL the rights and responsibilities thereof, and those who do not.
The majority of white people do not.
Baud
@RaflW:
I don’t think Dems are quite at majority-minority yet.
RaflW
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Yeah, and even ‘centrist’ is a junk label. Halfway between two poles is center only cartographically.
“The Center” is meaningless when the left in this country is fully marinated in capitalism, and the right is nakedly oligarchical white supremacy.
Kent
Oh no. She’s much worse. Palin didn’t take herself or her job seriously. In fact she walked out on her governorship mid-term to go on Fox and reality TV. If only we were so lucky with Sinema.
sab
Good news from Ohio: our Supreme Court today overturned the Congressional redistricting plan. Specifically they did not like that Akron in Summit County was split off from its Democratic leaning suburbs in the east side of the county and lumped in with Republican Medina County to the west. Also bad that they chopped up Cuyahoga County (Cleveland) and Hamilton County ( Cincinnati).
The majority opinion said the plan was so bad that mere tweaking could not fix it, so the Redistricting Committee ne3ds to start over.
The minority issued an opinion with no author. All three of them are running for re-election next year.
If this holds and Akron gets to be in a district with all of Summit County then Emilia Sykes has a chance of winning the western half of Tim Ryan’s old district. She has considered running. I am very excited. I think a lot of the decision on how to redistrict Akron was intentionally to screw her since she was one of the two Democrats on the Redistricting Commission (her father was the other.)
Suzanne
@Baud: If anyone knows any ex-Mormons (Mr. Suzanne calls them Formons), you know they are A Type. Most practicing Mormons don’t have that desire to stand out. They want to be seen as mainstream. Probably because of the LDS Church history. Agreeable, passive, conflict-avoidant, smiley. The ones that leave get really showy sometimes, very look-at-me. It’s definitely a pattern. Different from evangelicals who leave, who usually seem to want to fly under the radar about it.
satby
@Kristine: Seconded! Loving the posts, MisterDancer!
Kent
Of course they aren’t moderates. Joe Biden and Amy Klobachar are actual moderates. Hillary Clinton was a moderate.
Manchin and Sinema are professional OBSTRUCTIONISTS who are doing the bidding of various clandestine special interests.
sab
@Suzanne: I used to work at a Mormon accounting firm in Nevada, and you sure have the type pegged.
My boss, by the way, was a close friend of Harry Reid. Two mining town boys made good, both converts to LDS. My boss was one of the sweetest people I have ever met.
Dan B
@Baud: Sister in law is an attorney and part of my cursing is about her very polite way of invalidating my point of view. She doesn’t listen and goes directly to the nicest way of demeaning us. I’d rather have an emotionally honest argument than having it made perfectly clear she will always be right and I am abusing her gratefulness.
I doubt she cares one bit about the struggles my partner and I endured. And it’s likely that a national LGBTQ rights act would hold any interest to her.
We were at their country club and the waiter asked, “Is your number two?” Her reply was very much an ego play that her family was the second of the founders. She! Was Royalty!
No. You’re a pitiful snob. Goes with the soulessness..
Like you said with fewer words.
Roger Moore
@Professor Bigfoot:
I would say “non-White” rather than “Black”, but otherwise this is essentially correct. To me, the really interesting this is that when you scratch the surface, there are plenty of people who would continue to narrow the definition of Whiteness once they manage to exclude all the people who clearly classify as non-White today. Are Jews white? We seem to be treated that way, but you can bet we won’t be the moment other non-Whites get excluded. How about Irish, Italians, Poles, and people whose ancestors came from other traditionally Catholic countries? Yeah, there are plenty of people who will exclude them, too. I’m pretty sure you can find people who would happily exclude everyone except those whose ancestors were the right kind of English.
RaflW
@Baud: Ok, got me to stop being lazy and look it up.
Pew says that as of the 2020 election, 4 in 10 Dem voters were non-white. So I’m premature in my demographic spitballing. That does include Dem-leaning indies, tho. So actual party-ID demographics are probably closer to 50-50.
That said, I don’t think I’m too far off (nor too original) in supposing that the 4-in-10 number still upsets a lot of conservatives and even a chunk of putative indies. The idea of Black and brown heavily swaying national agendas is hard for some to handle.
karensky
@Kent: Sadly, very true.
Suzanne
@sab: I don’t know if I believe that Sinema has presidential ambitions. I have met people who have worked in her orbit, and I have heard that she doesn’t plan to finish her career in politics.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Rs are the party of the white supremacy and their base is white men. Ds are the party of everyone who doesn’t want white supremacy and our base is black women. That accounts for the difference how both parties are treated by the TPTB including the media.
Ksmiami
@Omnes Omnibus: I was forced to take global politics, roots of justice and Marxism. Still think politics as a studied major is filler sorry
Kent
@SpaceUnit: The difference between now and the past is that virulent and overt racism is much more aligned with one party when in the past it was much more of a bipartisan project. Go look at some video of violent busing protests in Boston in the early 70s if you want to see some pure racist hatred coming out of a presumably progressive area that voted for lots of Kennedys over the years.
As a teacher I do think the young are mostly better than we were in my generation. As a teacher I’ve noticed that racial integration is pretty much absolutely status quo in schools and when kids talk about diversity these days they are actually thinking more about LGBT diversity and gender issues. The racial stuff goes without saying.
As I science teacher I used to tell my students that my generation “broke” the planet and it will be their burden to fix it. Now I tell them that my generation “broke” democracy too and it is on them to fix that as well. As if climate change wasn’t a big enough task.
I honestly think it is going to take generational change. It was generational change that brought us to the present day and it will take generational change to get us into the future.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
I agree. The party has become the acceptable and polite non-racial surrogate for old school racial attritudes. It’s “politics” so it’s not racist.
Dan B
@The Moar You Know: Sorry to hear that. Fox trades on and feeds resentment. It’s propaganda in the mold of Goebbels, many religious leaders, and hucksters from the beginning of humanity. And it works.
Ksmiami
@debbie: yep. Fuck her stupidly mediocre persona and horrible fashion sense
Ohio Mom
@sab: I know, I’m happy and excited and crossing my fingers that Hamilton County will be made whole.
A long, long time ago, we were all in the same district and during that time, we sent Democrats to the House.
Then the Republicans in Columbus rent my county (and the City of Cincinnati) in two and attached my part, the eastern side, to a long snake of rural counties on the Ohio River. Mean Jean Schmidt territory (her replacement, Brad Westrup is no better).
I hope I’m not disappointed.
debbie
@The Moar You Know:
Oh, boy, can I relate. Two of my brothers went the TFG path and I haven’t spoken to either since he was elected. Unfortunately for me, I also haven’t spoken to the nieces and nephew I love very, very much and spent so much time with them when they were growing up. I’m furious and heartbroken at the same time. I’m no damn crybaby, but just typing this brings on the tears.
Baud
@debbie:
I’m sorry.
SiubhanDuinne
@Suzanne:
And yet, whenever I think of Mormons (here in Missionary Territory of the north Atlanta suburbs), I picture clean-cut young men walking or cycling in pairs, wearing dark trousers, crisp white shirts buttoned all the way up, dark knotted ties, and unadorned backpacks. Nothing could be more different from typical young man garb in this area. One could spot them from a mile away.
mrmoshpotato
@debbie:
Generous. :)
I’d argue the brat is worse because she’s a US Senator with national power.
Roger Moore
@Suzanne:
I think there are ex-Mormons and ex-Mormons. There are people who have given up on the church but don’t want to be exiled from their friends and family who are still in the church, who are quiet about it but just stop attending services and tithing. Then there are people who have quit the church and want everyone to know about it.
sab
@Ksmiami: My step-son majored in political science. As a major they don’t just study ideologies. They also have to do a lot of math type courses so that they can understand polling.
Sure Lurkalot
@The Moar You Know: We should sit together. I lost my brother some 20 years, first to Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and the like and now Fox and who knows what else.
I recently learned that Jimmy Carter is an evil man and Dr. Fauci is a thief.
We don’t talk very frequently and when we do, I stick to topics like the weather and cooking. But something like the above little tidbits sneak in from time to time and I realize we have nothing, nothing really, to talk about. We were so close as kids and young adults.
zhena gogolia
Great post. I expect to learn a lot from MisterDancer.
trollhattan
@Suzanne:
Q: If you’re going fishing with your Mormon buddy, how do you keep him from drinking all your beer?
A: Bring another Mormon.
Baud
@Sure Lurkalot:
There really should be a support group. I don’t know why there isn’t.
debbie
@Baud:
Thanks. To paraphrase one of the sadder passages of Brideshead Revisited, it’s not something that I would have predicted.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Bill Penzey did an essay called “All Republicans Are Racists” today. Pretty strong stuff.
karen marie
Arizona voter here – I finally, just now, got through to Sinema’s voicemail. All day yesterday her DC number was busy and the phones for both of her local offices were out of order. She is infuriating. Since she took office she has NEVER had anyone in her DC office answering the phone. I’ve sent her notes through her office website but it’s annoying as fuck. I have absolutely no interest in hearing back from her, even to acknowledge receipt, because she’s a useless bag of farts. Having to live with her as one of my two senators while having fucking ANDY BIGGS as my representative is almost more than I can bear.
ADD: THEY MAKE ME SO GRR MAD!
trollhattan
@Roger Moore: Jack Mormons are how I learned to pigeonhole the ones who like to get their party on. Learned that from self-declared ones.
debbie
@Ohio Mom:
Same here. I’m wondering if these rulings can be used as precedents in other states’ cases.
WereBear
@MisterDancer: loved this
Dan B
@sab: So my home county, Medina, isn’t good enough for you! Next you’re going to say Mussolini, Kim Jong Un, Pol Pot, and Pinochet aren’t acceptable either!!
Professor Bigfoot
@Roger Moore: I’d agree with that, but those other ethnicities have a standing offer from white supremacy that they, too, can be considered “white” if they join in hating on Black people.
Just ask the Irish and the Italians, neither of whom were “white” in their immigration waves.
Or the eastern Asian folk, for whom the “model minority” was held out as the pathway to being treated like they were white.
It always comes down to hating Black people and making sure that Black people remain at the bottom rung of American society.
Roger Moore
@Kent:
I don’t want to discount your observations, but they are observations of your little slice of a relatively liberal area. I don’t think the kids in more conservative places see race as such a settled issue.
SpaceUnit
@Kent:
Yeah. I guess I’m just trying to find a reason for optimism.
I remember going to the Obama rally in downtown Denver with some friends just a couple days before the election in 2008. There were sooo many people and by far most of them were white. I’d never been in a crowd that big. A lot of them were young, but there were people of all ages, people of every sort, just people as far as you could see in any direction.
And my God there was such an incredible vibe. It just felt electric. It was history. I remember looking around in awe and thinking, “This is change. This is what change looks like. This is what it feels like.”
And now . . .
I just want to feel that again. I’m like that kid on the Polar Express . . . I want to believe.
sab
@debbie: IANAL but I think nope, because it is an Ohio court not a Federal Court. So it only applies in Ohio even though it is deciding based on Federal law.
karen marie
@SiubhanDuinne: We have them here in Arizona. Whenever I see those creeps walking through my apartment complex, I tell them to get out or I’ll call the police.
Sure Lurkalot
@Kent:
I’m on a steering committee working on what my and adjacent neighborhoods want our area to look like in the next 20 years. Most everyone agrees that we need to increase our stock of affordable housing in the residential areas. But in an interactive exercise this week asking what kind…from duplexes to small apartment buildings, most respondents answered duplexes and townhomes. Anything denser brings traffic and “problems”.
sab
@Dan B: Of course I love the people who sent Renacci and Gonzalez to Congress.
I have Black grandchildren, so if our renters move out we will sell the house because living in Wadsworth would probably be too dangerous for the grandkids.
debbie
And I will say right to their stupid faces what my Mamaw said to me: “Actions speak louder than words.”
Dan B
@WereBear: Second!
I’ve done a lot of social justice work and it’s good to revisit the great thinkers and organizations, and whatever else Mr. Dancer sends our way.
MisterDancer
@karen marie: Fax them. If you have the money or tech, I find faxing my Senators to work really well. All of them should have working fax numbers, numbers that get ignored, I hear, in situations like this.
Ohio Mom
@debbie: People should know that we had to vote TWICE to get here. I don’t remember the specifics of either of the issues we passed, just that I was making snide comments about deja vu all over again when I voted for the second version.
And now, if I understand this correctly, the Ohio Supreme Court Justice thinks we should work on a THIRD issue because something.
You can’t make something clear enough for people who won’t listen. There are no magic words to convince her fellow Republicans, no matter what the third version might say.
Suzanne
@SiubhanDuinne: That’s the official Church-prescribed uniform for that activity, and it is far less weird-looking in other places, I think. I guarantee that in their personal lives, they would never wear that stuff. But also, that sort of generic conservative business dress is their thing. They don’t have priestly robes or collars or popehats or anything. They just all look like middle management circa 1988. Again, they’re a specific type.
Roger Moore
@trollhattan:
I’m thinking of my former boss. He was a sincere Mormon, but I think he always had a hard time squaring his religion with his politics (he’s very liberal) and his job (we’re scientists). Eventually, he just gave up on his religion. It isn’t a violent rebellion kind of thing- he’s not the type to be violent about anything, and he still follows the church teachings on things like alcohol and caffeine- but as far as I can tell he just can’t accept the actual religious beliefs. He kept taking his mother to services, but when she died he stopped. I think he had stopped paying attention to the content of the services a long time before.
Dan B
@sab: Wadsworth had blacks. There was one dark and dank block next the the Blue Ttip Match Factory.
For those that don’t know Wadsworth is one of the larger towns in the very white and conservative county Sab’ town got glued to in the redistricting that the Ohio Supremes just shot down.
Suzanne
@karen marie: ANDY BIGGS IS THE BIGGEST PIECE OF SHIT.
zhena gogolia
@SpaceUnit: I felt that the day people poured onto the streets to celebrate TFG’s loss.
MisterDancer
@Kent: man, this makes a ton of sense, overall.
There’s a whole discussion about how deep the “White Supremacy up in you Party” bit goes, that’s worth getting into if we ever get some breathing room. The belief that this all started on the GOP side with “states rights” re:Dixiecrats is a tiny bit of Lost Causism that’s had some ugly ramifications.
sab
@Dan B: 1.59%.
MisterDancer
@MisterDancer: to be clear – – faxes are not ignored, but people trying to reach Congressional offices ignore the fax option.
Geminid
@Suzanne: That story Amy Siskind narrated about Sinema’s Presidential ambitions seemed speculative to me. Her “insider” source sounded very certain, maybe a little too certain. Siskind sure got the clicks, though.
The joke that the typical Senator looks in the mirror and sees a President could be relatively true, and Sinema wouldn’t be a exception. But she strikes me as someone who is making it up as she goes along, not someone working from a bigger plan.
Baud
@Roger Moore:
It seems like a lot of religions and denominations have been making it increasingly hard for their more liberal members.
Ohio Mom
@Sure Lurkalot: That’s interesting. In my fancyish suburb, the call is for density — we are making our central business district a walkable neighborhood by inviting developers to build a series of “luxury” apartment buildings.
The rents are more than my mortgage, which is another way to keep the neighborhood homogeneous.
Brachiator
@MisterDancer:
Also part of that context was that in the South, black people often could not vote at all, and yet even some supposed friends of the movement were talking about “patience” and going slow, so as to not upset the system.
Then and now, there was the clear implication that civil rights for black people were not inherent, not inalienable, but existed solely at the discretion and sufferance of white people, and conditional on expressions of good behavior on the part of black folk.
debbie
@Ohio Mom:
Heh. The second time around, I chased down a signature-gatherer because they’d been so hard to find. I yelled “Stop! Are you gathering signatures?” from my car and then ordered her not to move until I could park and come over.
MomSense
@SiubhanDuinne:
One of them stole my son’s bicycle. He chased them down on his dad’s bicycle and confronted them. He got his bicycle back.
Also the guy had a nasty fall because my son’s bike was a fixed gear.
I had a crazy experience with a pair of them (they always travel in pairs). They let their racist theology out with me. In a similar vein, my dad caused a stir when he was in a tour group in Salt Lake City. He decided to tour their HQ and pushed back on the giant white Jesus portrait in their lobby. Man I wish I had been there to see that. He’s a retired minister with a wicked sense of humor and an OG SJW.
germy
bookmark it:
https://www.covidtests.gov/
Suzanne
@trollhattan: Absolutely true.
MisterDancer
@Dan B: thanks! I’m really trying to think through interesting people and groups I know, and who might like to reach out here. I think there are a lot of opportunities to have useful discussions…well, hope, anyway :)
Roger Moore
@Professor Bigfoot:
I’m not so sure. My impression is that part of the way we’ve gotten to where we are is that attitudes among the White supremacists hardened, and they became less willing to expand their definition of Whiteness. Maybe that’s just the feeling I’ve gotten from living in California. Back in the 1990s, the Republicans were faced with exactly that choice. They could expand the definition of White to include more recent Mexican immigrants and maintain their power. Instead, they tried to exclude Mexicans and it wound up backfiring and sending them into the wilderness from which they still have not returned.
I suspect that part of the problem is that politics has nationalized, and racism has nationalized along with it. There’s very strong anti-immigration sentiment, driven mostly by places that are just starting to see substantial immigration. The racists there want to shut down immigration, even though at a national level it’s probably too late; there are too many minorities to hope to regain control by shutting them out.
Laura Too
@MisterDancer: Thank you so much for the wonderful writing. I really appreciate the thoughtfulness of your posts.
Suzanne
@Geminid: Yeah, I am skeptical. Say what you will about her, she isn’t dumb. She is spineless and she has no principles, but she has to know that the best way to be a presidential contender is to make allies in the party. She has been in politics for 20 years. I think people here do not get the specific flava of AZ and do not see her appeal (and yes, she has some there)…. but I think her schtick has worked for her as much as it’s going to, and I would be shocked if she can’t see that. She has a history of twisting in the wind, yes…. but to whatever is more popular.
Omnes Omnibus
@sab: I think I was one the last people who was able to major in political science/government without going deep into quant stuff. Most of my courses were political philosophy and political history. Hell, my Soviet Foreign Policy course basically said “same as it ever was but with Marxist jargon.”
Gin & Tonic
@Kent:
Boy, you don’t know Boston very well, do you?
Roger Moore
@Baud:
What I would say is that there are plenty of religions and denominations that are making specific politics a part of their religious beliefs. But that applies both ways. I think a conservative would feel just as unwelcome amongst Unitarian Universalists as a liberal would among Southern Baptists.
Suzanne
@Roger Moore:
Eh. I think there’s a substantial cohort of white men who have no prospects for a variety of social reasons. A generation ago, they would have been solidly middle class without much effort. One thing that we didn’t really talk about back in the 90s was that we could make things more fair and remove generational and social barriers to success, but that wasn’t going to make everyone more successful. Some people would get pushed up and others would decline. I think this cohort is more outwardly racist because they are getting their asses kicked and are looking to cast blame.
Baud
@Roger Moore:
You (or I) never hear about Unitarians as a political force.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic: I didn’t want to say it.
Suzanne
And on the topic of “density”… that’s another term that isn’t as precise as it needs to be. In places where density means expensive condos and apartments for DINK couples, everyone loves it. Where it means 15 members of an intergenerational family in a three-bedroom apartment, everyone hates it.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Right. And I bet they’d be welcoming to anyone who came in the door.
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia: I’m not as polite.
debbie
@Gin & Tonic:
I lived there for about five years, moving out just before the busing riots. Racial tension was everywhere, even in the girls preteen clothing department at Filene’s.
zhena gogolia
This post generated an interesting comment thread.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: The Unitarian Jihad would beg to differ.
MisterDancer
@Gin & Tonic: this guy, born and raised in the American South, was terrified when I ended up in South Boston to get gas at night, a few years ago.
I have amazing friends in the city. I still visit Boston with more care than I take going to Atlanta.
MisterDancer
@zhena gogolia: yep!
sab
@Roger Moore: There is a reason that membership in traditional protestant churches is declining. All the Republicans left because the social justice and tolerance stuff offended their sensibilities.
Kirk Spencer
Hasn’t this always been the way?
MisterDancer
SO MUCH of modern day politics made a ton more sense when I started reading the book MASTERLESS MEN on poor whites and their social/economic straits in pre-Civil War Southern America.
Very clear thru lines, that author draws. Really need to finish that book!
sab
@MisterDancer: Sometime you need to give us a reading list.
Suzanne
@MisterDancer: I have been musing on this extra-hard since the break-in at my house this weekend. Perpetrator is white, four of the five police officers who came to the scene are black, and two of them are women. Society becoming more equal doesn’t mean we made the pie higher or whatever savaged metaphor you choose to employ here. And the perpetrator is the very portrait of a white dude with no education who got hooked on drugs.
MomSense
@Suzanne:
Wait, break in at your house? How are you feeling?
Roger Moore
@Suzanne:
I don’t think this is true. In my area, there’s definitely a BANANA (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone) contingent who sees any new housing as a bad idea. A great example is a site that was being used for one of these U-Store-It type places but that someone wanted to convert into dense housing.
It’s in a nearly ideal location from many standpoints. It’s between a busy street and the freeway, with a bus route on the busy street and a light rail station within easy walking distance. The property is ugly as anything, so any kind of halfway decent development will be a visual improvement. The only problem is that the property was used as a naval weapons development site during WWII, so there is some groundwater contamination. Pollution abatement was an integral part of the development plan, and it probably made the neighborhood safer, since the alternative was leaving the pollution in situ.
The neighbors still hated it. They would rather be near an ugly, polluted self storage site than let somebody build some much needed housing.
LeftCoastYankee
“I support civil rights legislation, but I support this rule made up to stop civil rights legislation even more.”
Yeah, that’s straight up racist.
Geminid
@Suzanne: If Sinema planned to run for President I would expect her to be on TV news shows more. She could be on plenty if she wanted. Sinema is notorious on this forum, but I don’t think she is so well known among the greater public.
That said, I really don’t know what makes this person tick. I see a lot of simple, contemptuous explainations here. They could be true, but I don’t know that they are.
Suzanne
@MomSense: Ummmm doing better now. Was very un-good earlier in the week. It is exhausting.
Suzanne
@Roger Moore: That kind of attitude exists but I think is more common in only the already-expensive parts of the country where there are pockets of people who got in before it got expensive and now they know they’ll be priced out. Much of the country, especially the Sun Belt, loooooves new development, as long as they are reasonably confident that it’ll only be relatively wealthy people who can afford it. It was a joke in Phoenix, watching condo tower after condo tower after condo tower, then mid-rise boxy “loft-style” apartment complexes, just nonstop. I know it is the same in Dallas, San Antonio, Austin, San Diego, etc etc etc. They’re perfect in some ways for cities because adults without kids pay taxes but don’t consume much in the way of schools or other services. All that “creative class” bullshit from Richard Florida.
lowtechcyclist
@RaflW:
That seems a bit ‘off’ to me since (counting Hispanics as nonwhite) the U.S. is about 60-40 white-nonwhite, and of course the Dems are more nonwhite than the mean, while the GOP is more white.
It might be a matter of definitions. Government statistics treat race (white, Black, Asian, Native American, Pacific islander) as independent of ethnicity (Hispanic v. Nonhispanic). Nonhispanic whites are ~60% of the population, but if ethnicity is left out, the white percentage is considerably larger than that.
Kent
Boston has always been plenty progressive in plenty of ways, just not race. Those same working class Bostonians were plenty happy to vote for FDR and later JFK when they were getting progressive programs like social security, minimum wage, Medicare, etc. For example, FDR carried MA in 1932 due to overwhelming support in Boston despite most of the rest of the state going to Hoover. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1932_United_States_presidential_election_in_Massachusetts
In any event, that was just an off-hand example of how Democrats can be plenty racist, especially in the past.
Kent
I taught HS for 10 years in a large relatively diverse urban/suburban HS in Waco Texas that was 57% White, 23% Hispanic, 11% Black, and 5% Asian https://www.niche.com/k12/midway-high-school-waco-tx/ and raised three kids in that community including my oldest who graduated from there. I have had more conversations about race with HS students than you can imagine and we have had more HS kids tramping through our house than you can imagine. So I think I have a pretty realistic take.
Yes there are redneck racist kids, mostly from redneck racist families. They are here too. But they are most definitely a pretty small minority. I also had tons of overtly LGBT students right there in Waco too, as well as LGBT parents raising straight kids. You would be surprised. In some ways it is less racist than the Pacific Northwest just because it is so less white. The shittiest racist asshole kids I have had to deal with have been here in Washington where I had to get seriously harsh with white kids who were being racist assholes to Hispanic kids back in 2017. Doing shit like hanging onto the fence outside the football stadium chanting “Build the Wall” when Hispanic kids walked by. Of course that was also Trump’s fucking fault for inviting it out into the open. But still….White kids would do shit like fly the “don’t tread on me” flag and the “come and take it” flag from their pickup trucks in Texas, but they were never that level of overt racist.
Dan B
@MomSense: My partner was driving to Texas to take his mom to visit her daughter in Texas. I had work obligations so flew to SLC to meet them. Mom wanted to visit the visitors center in Temole Square. She got entranced (skillfully cornered) by a pretty young blonde woman who got Mom excited about genealogy. It was getting late to get to Moab but the hook was set. The young blonde, sensing our agitation, complimented Mom on her two handsome sons. WRONG choice. I said slowly with the vocal chords of a family of trained opera singers, “I am not her son. This is my lover. We are a gay couple.” In the moment of stunned silence in the visitors center I announced, “We have a long drive and must leave now. Come on Mom.”
My partner told that story fir years.
Dan B
@MisterDancer: I was flashing on the possibility of us all reading a long form piece by a current black philosopher getting your perspective and then comments from other black and white / Asian / etc. Jackals. Or perhaps even a classic book. I was thinking about The Autobiography of Malcolm X, for example. It’s been so long since I read it and I believe I’d have a different take on it than I did originally because I’ve changed and the world has changed. There are a number of contemporary authors I’m intrigued by but would feel more motivated to if there were an opportunity to discuss it with others who are interested. I’d also love to know who you might recommend
A local author is Ijeoma Oluo (sp?). I’ve got two degrees of separation.
sab
@Dan B: I love that story.
My high school boyfriend was gay. He didn’t think I knew ( !?? 17 and paws off the girlfriend?!) Otherwise he was so much fun. I didn’t mind because I was going away to college and didn’t want any long term emotional entanglements. He also had a boyfriend (he didn’t think I’d notice?) from another high school who was a great guy also.
Dan B
@sab: Sounds great. I’ve met many fascinating and fun people who were LGBTQ and their friends who were great because they had to figure out which restrictive norms were nonsense (99%) and embrace new things / explore new territory. Never a dull moment!
Bobby Thomson
She ain’t moderate. She’s a white supremacist and thoroughly corrupt to boot.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Senator Sinema really counts as on these White Moderates Kings talking about? She all comes across as “the real victim in the Civil Rights movement is Me, because people aren’t talking about me!”
HeartlandLiberal
The only thing I can add to this post is to urge everyone, if they are ever in Birmingham, AL, to visit the Civil Rights Museum, across the street from west side of Kelly Ingram Park, where the Black children gathered to march for their freedom, and met the dogs and fire hoses of Bull Conner.
I would urge you all to google the following words: kelly ingram park statue, and view the memorials.
The museum is one of the best themed museums I have ever visited. It tells the story accurately and in depth. I assume it still has the front half of the bus that was firebombed.
dp
@jeffreyw: Very.