I mean, seriously. Who Wouldn’t Want to Change the World and Then Be Honored with Mattress Sales?
It is a cruel jest to say to a bootless man that he should lift himself up by his own bootstraps. It is even worse to tell a man to lift himself up by his own bootstraps when somebody is standing on the boot….I had to tell him finally that nobody else in this country has lifted themselves by their own bootstraps alone, so why expect the black man to do it?
―
I continue to think that Martin Luther King was killed not just for demanding equality for black people. The even worse crime was to demand dignity for everyone.
You are doing many things here in this struggle. You are demanding that this city will respect the dignity of labor. So often we overlook the work and the significance of those who are not in professional jobs, of those who are not in the so-called big jobs. But let me say to you tonight, that whenever you are engaged in work that serves humanity and is for the building of humanity, it has dignity, and it has worth. One day our society must come to see this. One day our society will come to respect the sanitation worker if it is to survive, for the person who picks up our garbage, in the final analysis, is as significant as the physician, for if he doesn’t do his job, diseases are rampant. All labor has dignity.
But you are doing another thing. You are reminding, not only Memphis, but you are reminding the nation that it is a crime for people to live in this rich nation and receive starvation wages. … Do you know that most of the poor people in our country are working every day? And they are making wages so low that they cannot begin to function in the mainstream of the economic life of our nation. These are facts which must be seen, and it is criminal to have people working on a full-time basis and a full-time job getting part-time income. You are here tonight to demand that Memphis will do something about the conditions that our brothers face as they work day in and day out for the well-being of the total community. You are here to demand that Memphis will see the poor.
What would Martin Luther King say to us about our challenges if he were here today?
If you’re up for it, let’s use the premise of BG’s Medium Cool last night to share our thoughts in this thread.
One of the things all screenwriters do is write what are called “loglines.” These are the 1-2 sentence pitches that hook the reader and describe the central conflict of the story.
Example: A young police officer must prevent a bomb exploding aboard a city bus by keeping its speed above 50 mph.
Oh, and in case you want to follow the tradition that President Obama started when he asked people to volunteer for something on MLK Day, I will include satby’s comment from the earlier thread.
For anyone who wants to take part in the Betty White tribute, the spay/neuter group I am a member of was notified this month that ALL our partner vets are raising their fees. We have to decide between raising our client copays or keeping them as low as possible and running out of funds sooner. Donations gratefully accepted. SNAP of Michigan
It’s a hat trick. You get to honor President Obama, you get to honor the beloved Betty White, and you get to help out the rescue that satby works with. SNAP of Michigan was one of our two finalists when choosing the new pet rescue last year.
debbie
He erred when he pointed out how un-Christian the Christians were.
WereBear
I have long thought so, too. Recently read, and I think it was here, that his murderer expected a pardon for so doing.
As part of our MLK weekend, we watched In the Heat of the Night yesterday. The small Southern town casually discusses framing, then murdering, the Sidney Poitier character they resent so much. For showing them up as ignorant and hateful.
It’s like another virus and we still haven’t reached herd immunity.
Baud
Fuck Manchinema. Probably.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@debbie: To me, people make a wish rather than an argument when they say things like “that group of people (who espouse the Christian faith) aren’t really Christians” or “those people who call themselves conservatives aren’t really conservatives.” At some point, Christians (or conservatives) are what Christians (or conservatives) do. That can change, but you can’t deny it’s there.
Leto
What would he say?
Martin Luther King, Jr, “Letter from a Birmingham Jail”
Ken
Is anyone else feeling blocked by the suggestion to do a story pitch? Because between that and the hoary old joke*, I’m having trouble coming up with anything beyond “Zombie MLK brings hellfire to lengthy list of politicians”.
* “What would X say if he were alive today?” “Why is it so dark in here?”
Kay
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Agree.
Butter Emails
On this MLK day, let us remember that millions of black people will be made to stand for hours because 2 white people think it is more important that 100 Senators remain seated.
Leto
@Ken: I mean, they’ve had “Pride, Prejudice, and Zombies”, and “Abraham Lincoln: Zombie Hunter”! So why not, “Martin Luther King: Zombie Justice Avenger”! Imagine the merchandising tie-ins!!!! /s
MazeDancer
Gave a little something to SNAP. And my local shelter. In honor of Betty White. (https://dcspca.org/?form=FUNVDBRZFTQ}
Are donations to Four Directions matchable today?
Kay
A lot of sloppy commentary on this, but this seems to be the scenario for the Electoral Count Act reform.
There are two proposals – one w/Manchin and Sinema and various Republicans (redundant, I know) and another by Democrats:
The Democratic plan is fleshed out- here. The Republican plan is not. But there are no Republicans backing the Democratic plan and no Democrats (other than Manchin and Sinema) backing the Republican plan. So Romney would have 10 Republicans, Manchin and Sinema, and no Democrats = 12. Democrats would have all the Democrats, but no Manchin and Sinema (who are backing the GOP plan, which doesn’t exist yet) = 48.
raven
@WereBear: He was killed because he made the link between racism here and racism in Vietnam
Omnes Omnibus
I don’t know what MLK would say today. I feel like any attempt I would make would merely be me putting my words and perceptions into his mouth.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, …
France24
French far-right presidential candidate Zemmour convicted for racist hate speech
Imagine how different the world would be if TFG faced similar legal sanctions.
Yeah, there are very good reasons to have a First Amendment, but there are also arguments on the other side.
Cheers,
Scott.
Benw
I hope today he would remind us that “the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice” and that a lot of things are better now than they were in 1956 even if things seem pretty bad and it’s worth continuing to fight
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Scott: Fuck that guy.
debbie
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I’m not sure what your distinction is. I only know there are people who have labeled themselves as Christians who are not acting in a Christian-like manner.
I stick with my “tribe’s” dictate: “What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor.” (Hillel) This is what I try to follow every day.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I don’t think it’s illogical or unhelpful to point out that a group of people (even a majority) aren’t living up to a processed standard. The key question is, how do you enforce the standard you want people to live up to, especially when persuasion and education have gone nowhere. That’s the hard question good Christians (or other good groups) don’t really want to grapple with.
WereBear
@raven: I knew there was some kind of trigger, thanks.
WereBear
@Baud: There used to be social pressure to keep people polite in public, but now all the MAGAts live IN their bubble. The social pressure goes the other way, as we see them crushed by COVID.
lowtechcyclist
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Oh, I’ve made the argument that evangelicals aren’t really Christians, by their own assumptions about what that means, and I think it’s a pretty strong one. But if you regard ‘Christian’ as simply a label, then you’re correct.
patroclus
I think Martin Luther King would say something like this: “As my good friend Frederick Douglas once said to Abraham Lincoln during a debate – Now Is The Time to purchase a high quality affordable mattress.”
Elizabelle
“I love my wife, and would have liked to see my children grow up.”
MLK Jr. would not say it out loud, I think, but he would be pretty disgusted with those too cowardly to demand voting rights. Especially those in a position to vote to protect voting rights. Which is one of the very best ways to ensure and protect our democracy.
I’d love if MLK Jr. said “fuck the filibuster”, but I do not think that was the good reverend’s style.
Baud
@WereBear:
To be honest, I think a lot of that social pressure involved chastising white people for behaving like those people. What’s changed is that those people got to be seen by a lot of the country as equally moral, if not more so.
WereBear
@Elizabelle:
Not then. Maybe now.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
Yeah, I took some poetic license there.
Jay
After yesterday, I am having to take a day. Burned out, fed up.
BlueGuitarist
@Elizabelle:
“I think the tragedy is that we have a Congress with a Senate that has a minority of misguided senators who will use the filibuster to keep the majority of people from even voting. They won’t let the majority senators vote. And certainly they wouldn’t want the majority of people to vote, because they know they do not represent the majority of the American people.” Martin Luther King, Jr., July 1963
Benw
Chuck Schumer and Kristin Gillibrand are speaking now at the BAM celebration of Dr King and not pulling any punches about voting rights and the the Trumpification of the Republicans
lowtechcyclist
@Omnes Omnibus:
This. While I believe he would share many of the concerns most of us jackals share, making the claim that he’d be making this or that stand would be stealing his imprimatur to put it on my own causes.
Lord knows we get pissed at conservatives when they take that one quote of King’s out of context to imply that fighting for racial justice is going against King’s desire for a truly color-blind society.
And I’m sure that if King were alive now, he’d be taking stands that would make me uncomfortable too – I just don’t know what they would be, but it’s almost a sure thing.
WaterGirl
@Ken: Then just ignore that part of what I wrote. :-)
Cameron
I write plays and stories, not movie scripts, and I’m an amateur anyway. So my logline skills could be charitably described as nonexistent. But….nothing ventured, nothing gained.
While in the light, he saw dignity and freedom and showed them to the blind; once in the dark he felt blinded himself. Rising again to the world, he saw his name in giant letters advertising mattresses for sale and thought, “My, they look comfortable!”
WaterGirl
@Butter Emails:
I just wanted to see that again.
Leto
@Elizabelle: @BlueGuitarist:
Here’s the video of that statement, from the a 1963 press conference at the US Information Agency Program.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
Point taken. To bring the two threads together, it’s what people do with Jesus too, isn’t it?
WaterGirl
@MazeDancer: Yes, we are now on angel match #7!
So it’s the usual deal… each angel matches anyone up to $50, even if they have been matched by other angels.
$10 turns into $60, $25 turns into $125, $50 turns into $300, etc. If it’s $50 or under, just multiply times 6.
Kay
@Benw:
Good. Because what has gotten a little lost in all this is that no Republicans support the Voting Rights Act. We had a voting rights act, they gutted it, and they now don’t support a replacement. They don’t want federal civil rights protections for voting, which of course was the entire battle for the 1965 Voting Rights Act. None of them- not Mitt Romney, not Susan Collins- zero.
Baud
@Kay:
Exactly. Maybe 10 republicans are squeamish about a state legislature actually overthrowing the popular vote. Maybe. But suppressing the vote to help their party is AOK.
Kay
@Benw:
I take it back- ONE Republican supports federal civil rights protections for voting- Murkowski. However, she does not support carving out an exception to the filibuster, which makes her identical to Manchin and Sinema.
Murkowski cannot get credit. It’s really unbelievable. For years Collins was presented as the moderate when she never was- Murkowski was – and now Mitt Romney is presented as the GOP supporter of civil rights when actually Murkowski is the only one. There’s exactly one real maverick- Lisa Murkowski -and inexplicably she is never credited with it.
BlueGuitarist
@Leto: Thanks!
zhena gogolia
@BlueGuitarist: Wow.
Kay
@Baud:
I knew they would never support a replacement, which is why I thought Roberts pitching it in the trash was really profound. The only way we get the civil rights protections we had in 1966 is to get 60 Democratic senators and a Democratic President.
Baud
@BlueGuitarist:
That seems apt.
Baud
@Kay:
We don’t quite need 60 if we can get a few more that will abolish the filibuster. But yeah.
Cameron
@Kay: I don’t know if you can support both voting rights and the profoundly undemocratic filibuster. I think you have to be lying about one or the other.
HinTN
@Kay: And I wish the fucking press would ask them why not.
Kay
@Baud:
60 with Manchin and Sinema is 58, so “62” plus Murkowski is 61.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Susan Collins has been a very successful fraud. Her stammering idiot affect plays into the idea that she’s a weak but sincere moderate, when in fact she’s pretty much Mitch McConnell in Olympia Snowe drag.
I suspect Murkowski is fine with not too many people back home noting her as a moderate who’s willing to compromise.
Kay
@Cameron:
Well, they literally “can’t” in any real way so that dilemma should be resolved for them.
It’s too bad. The John Lewis Voting Rights Act is a modernized and updated law. It’s a better law.
Chief Oshkosh
@WereBear:
I think that that is wishful thinking. They are not being crushed by covid. Hell, even it they were, they’d never understand that that is what is crushing them, and therefore there is no social pressure. They are too far into the bubble.
topclimber
@Omnes Omnibus:
MLK was about doing and not just talking. As in disciplined non violent civil disobedience. Voting rights and climate crisis are two possibilities.
patroclus
I think that if people want to get back into the spirit of the days of MLK, they should read Harper Lee’s Go Set a Watchman, which was her first novel that didn’t get published until 2016 and which is a lot less subtle than To Kill a Mockingbird. Atticus Finch is no longer the hero and Scout is now an adult and she calls it like she sees it.
Josie
@WaterGirl: I just donated 50.00. Do I need to note it in another thread?
Omnes Omnibus
@topclimber: You may very well be right, but that wasn’t my point.
Another Scott
@Kay: A few things give me hope.
It’s not a sure thing, but it’s not impossible to make progress.
Were I betting, I would suspect that some changes to the filibuster are coming to make blocking the majority more difficult, and something like the voting rights bills and BBBA are coming in a few weeks. More will still need to be done, but more always still needs to be done. The fight continues.
We’ll see!
Cheers,
Scott.
MazeDancer
@WaterGirl:
Yay! In for another $10 for Four Directions. Every penny counts.
Which means $60 for 4D. Every penny multiplies mightily.
Angels are angelic, indeed, 7 Angels is some big doings.
Thank you!
Brachiator
This is the highest level of respect that can be conferred upon an American hero. Mattress sales are good enough for George Washington. And now it is a fitting tribute for MLK.
Benw
@Kay: @Baud: so true. All Republicans know that if we fairly redistrict their radical gerrymandering that happened even while the VRA was in full effect, they will get wiped out. They’re already heinously cheating and un-democratic and they know it.
Hakeem Jeffries speaking now. “We’re battling the ghosts of the confederacy right now… but we will channel the spirit of Dr King….we are going to end the era of voter suppression once and for all!” He’s so good.
The speaker after him: WOW.
MomSense
The book Learning To Be White: Money, Race and God in America by Rev. Thandeka is important to understanding what we are living.
WaterGirl
@patroclus: I nearly titled this post:
Who Among Us Would Not Want to Change the World and Then Be Honored With Mattress Sales?
zhena gogolia
@Benw: Where is this?
WaterGirl
@Josie: Here is fine, as long as you let me know. thanks
Kay
@Another Scott:
Maybe. I think the fundamental error was believing Manchin and Sinema operate in good faith.
I don’t blame anyone for that- it’s impossible to negotiate with liars. You can’t trust them. I think Biden was correct to go into it assuming some measure of good faith, because you have to start with that or no one would try anything, ever. In the private sector they would just be considered bad faith actors and no one would bother with them because it’s a waste of time and harms YOUR credibility along with theirs, but it’s not the private sector. He’s stuck with two liars who want to harm him, for reasons of their own.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: I do that, too. I read a comment that makes me think, and I often share that response with a reply to the person who made the comment that led to my thought.
Perhaps that happened here.
Kay
@Another Scott:
Manchin told some “journalist” at a party or something that someone changed the bill he wrote with Stacy Abrams and so that’s his latest excuse for reneging. Someone on Twitter said it was Klobuchar which I find hysterical and delightful. I hope it’s true. He should go fuck with her. Try it.
Benw
@zhena gogolia: Brooklyn Academy of Music celebration of Dr MLK, Jr. I’m watching the live stream.
Another Scott
@Another Scott: The UK has lots of problems, but they seem to have an abundance of people who can quickly generate absolutely brutal mocking and satire about horrible people in power. There are a few here who try to do that, but they seem to fall short. (At least I don’t see it very often.)
Where my ‘merkin mocking homeys at??
(Animation)
(Twitter’s messing around and trying to force people to sign up again. If the above doesn’t work, try copying this to a new tab.)
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@Another Scott: (sigh) Too many linkies in the tweet? Help?
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
WereBear
@Brachiator: I support mattress parity!
Another Scott
@Benw: Thanks for the pointer.
This seems to be the link: https://bam.gallery.video/mlk2022
Cheers,
Scott.
Kay
@Another Scott:
A lot of centrist pundits insisted Manchin and Sinema were negotiating in good faith and it was just a matter of meeting their number or adding punishments for poor people or something, so Manchin and Sinema’s failure to pass anything (if that happens) harms the credibility of everyone who believed them.
Which is always how it works with liars. It’s not fair but it’s how it works.
Brachiator
@BlueGuitarist:
IOW, Fuck the filibuster.
Certainly applicable today.
This should be widely circulated. Let Manchin and Sinema read it also.
MisterDancer
That’s an honorable starting point. I encourage folx not to end there.
I mean, even some Black Americans these days have a…complex relationship to Dr. King. There’s reasons you didn’t hear a lot of current thinkers on race relations directly quoting King when Black Lives Matter became a national issue.
But he’s worth reading, in my personal opinion — and I mean sitting down and reading, not just watching speeches. Part of why I’m fairly conformable quoting him is that I have done some research. I’m aware of what I consider flaws in his approaches, and I recognize the gaps between the reality of his work, and the mythology we’ve generated over the last few decades.
A shallow approach to King is what we have seen from Right-Wing people obsessed with dismantling everything King stood for, while claiming him as one of their own. I think there are…better approaches, but they take time and focus to develop.
debbie
@Another Scott:
4. The Ohio Supreme Court tossing out both state and Congressional redistricting maps.
WaterGirl
@Another Scott: @Benw:
It doesn’t look like you can go back and catch up, only LIVE. yes?
Cacti
It was shortly after he started speaking out on the immorality of the Vietnam War, and the US government’s policy of violence against non-European peoples everywhere that MLK got cut down.
Coincidence?
topclimber
@Omnes Omnibus: Duh.
Kay
My youngest applied for work/study at a public elementary school in Michigan. He’ll be good at that. He’ll do reading help and “maybe recess”. He loves recess! I hope he gets a whistle. I’ll get him one if it doesn’t come with the job :)
VOR
Agree. The anti-mask/vax people have locked themselves into contortions to deny COVID is real, deny COVID is that dangerous, deny COVID was actually the reason their friend/relative got sick, deny COVID was the real cause of death, and then claim there are easy solutions to the disease they deny is even a problem.
Look on Twitter today and you see #Australiahasfallen trending. They are claiming Australia is a giant prison where the population is oppressed by their own government. And yet Australia has done so much better than the US on COVID in terms of death rates.
Brantl
@Elizabelle: His phrase would have more likely been “condemn it to hell!”, I would think. Clearer, more succinct, and better oratory.
oatler
@Kay:
“There is a lot of interest, a lot of interest.”
And Sen. Sinema just went out to get the paper, get the paper.
Another Scott
@Brachiator: Here’s the full video from 1963 (on C-Span) (30:18). The relevant question starts around the 24 minute mark.
He also talks about the importance of the 14th Amendment in other parts of the Q&A.
Cheers,
Scott.
Sandia Blanca
In keeping with the sentiments Dr. King expressed in Memphis, please enjoy the wonderful short documentary called Trashdance. About 10 years ago, choreographer Allison Orr worked with sanitation crews in Austin to create a beautiful dance of their daily activities. Andrew Garrison followed them in their progress and created this lovely film.
https://www.forkliftdanceworks.org/projects/trash-dance/
http://Trashdancemovie.com
Miss Bianca
@MazeDancer: Me too. Not much, but something.
Kay
@oatler:
Guffaw.
If you were inventing a school for his kids to go to could it be any more perfect than “Georgetown Prep”?
MazeDancer
Having a great time on Twitter replying to every GOP official who has the audacity to tweet an MLK quote.
Giving them all the “have you no shame” treatment. And a nice MLK pic/quote. How Dr. King was willing to die to secure voting rights and they are doing all they can to suppress them.
Varying the reasons why history will only remember them as a pathetic asterisk if that.
Will they see it? No. Some intern might.
But it is so satisfying that hundreds of others are doing the same. It is very Slaughter on 10th Avenue out there. Haven’t found one reply to the lying liar GOP supporting their hypocrisy.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
Democrats and Republicans operate under different rules.
The Republican 2017 tax bill, for example, was drafted by GOP leadership. Not only were Democrats excluded from participation, so were most rank-and-file GOP members of Congress. In the end they were told to vote for the bill, even though many had not even read it.
Special interests and corporate lobbyists were already on board, bribes had already been pocketed, so there was no opposition from lobbyists.
The Biden administration thought that it had a Democratic consensus with respect to the BBB legislation. It was a pretty good bill, and its provisions were paid for, and yet still Manchin was allowed to be a rogue agent in opposing the bill.
The Biden Administration has offered a number of compromises and has slashed the total recommended spending, to no avail. Again, we can contrast the action of the GOP, who voted for the 2017 tax bill even though many provisions violated supposedly deeply held conservative principles.
I don’t know whether the Democrats could have done more to head off lobbyist opposition, but pressure from various special interest groups to drop various provisions has been relentless.
I am not recommending that Democrats adopt GOP ruthlessness and hypocrisy, but I wish that the Democrats were better about agreeing to some basic principles with respect to what they think must get accomplished.
And I wish that they were more concerned with sticking it to the Republicans than with sticking it to each other.
Kay
@MazeDancer:
That’s nice. I love Twitter- it’s very egalitarian- but I don’t Tweet. I’m a Twitter lurker.
Another Scott
@MazeDancer: As I posted downstairs, [nope, it’s a few links above. I need more caffeine. ;-)]
Cheers,
Scott.
Benw
@WaterGirl: Seems to be. Maybe they’ll post the whole thing when done, but that’s just a guess.
Kay
@Brachiator:
I assumed BBB would get cut in half and so did everyone else reasonable, so the whole “it was too liberal!” thing just seems like bullshit. Manchin is well aware of the norms of negotiation. He knew damn well no one was planning on him supporting the whole thing.
The whole debate is dishonest because HE’S dishonest and pundits falling for every word he says is just infuriating.
Miss Bianca
@MazeDancer: This is an occasion where I wish Twitter were more like real life. Or real life more like Twitter. Or something.
Geminid
@Kay: Manchin’s “Amy K. changed my bill” story is in a Politico article from January 14, titled “What Manchin told Steve Clemons.” The story is actually an interview by Ryan Lizza of “Washington operator” Steve Clemons. Clemons talked about a recent dinner with his friend Joe Manchin. Manchin, Clemons said, claimed that he had collaborated with Stacey Abrams on a bill of more limited scope than the bill under consideration, which was changed by Klobucher in her capacity as Rules Commitee Chairman. I have not seen that Abrams or Klobucher have commented on this.
MazeDancer
@Miss Bianca:
There is no such thing as “not much.” If you are on the raising end of fund raising – and I have been, many times – you know every contribution is a miracle.
Which is why I am on here publishing my 10 bucks. Holding the space for everyone.
People on BJ are dazzling in their generosity. And those that can afford it, responding by giving big are remarkable. Yay for them! And the angels? Ooh-la-la, magnafique!
But if everyone of the hundreds of people who think they don’t really have much to give, so they don’t give anything, gave a buck, or 5 bucks, or 10 bucks it adds up so fast.
Of course, there are plenty of us with nothing they can give, monetarily, this month, or next, but all support is appreciated.
Starting with never apologize for the amount that you give. Celebrate that you gave something, even support.
Miss Bianca
@MazeDancer:
Aww. Thank you for that. Those are words I try to live by when I am writing thank-you letters for donations to my theater, but somehow I forget to apply them to myself.
Hazmat
@WaterGirl: Just gave $50 to Four Directions…thanks, as always, for organzing.
Kay
@Geminid:
Why is he such a jerk and who can trust this person? He goes whining to that guy about another senator? Also- why isn’t he ever at work? He promised ten GOP Senators for his imaginary voting rights law. How’s that going? Probably as well as his gun control bill. Remember that solemn vow?
Whatever, asshole. Come back when you have some work to show.
Omnes Omnibus
@MisterDancer: I also have thoughts about it, but today is a day where, as a white dude, I probably should just shut up and listen.
Kay
@Geminid:
Besides the fact that isn’t the excuse he used last week. Last week he said it was his committment to the filibuster. Now he doesn’t support the law either? I guess we know why pressuring him on the filibuster didn’t work. He doesn’t support any of it now.
Save time. There are 48 Democrats and 52 Republicans. Two of the Republicans won’t admit it.
MazeDancer
@Miss Bianca:
Laughing. We all forget to include ourselves as human. Often.
@Another Scott:
Thanks for that link. Not a lot of Republican tweeting of that. today.
Here is another quote that isn’t getting much GOP support either. Union!
James E Powell
@Kay:
Being spectacularly wrong may harm their credibility among some folks – here, for instance – but it doesn’t seem to reduce their appearances on Sunday & cable shows or in the OpEd sections. It also doesn’t seem to cause them to become more humble.
Kay
@Geminid:
Manchin and Sinema joined with Republicans to float an electoral count act, not Democrats. They’re not part of the Democratic effort.
So the play will be to produce 10 Republicans plus Manchin and Sinema and pressure (all) Democrats to support the GOP bill. These people are not Democrats! They are on the opposite side. It’s not one or two things- it is every single move they make.
Matt McIrvin
“Don’t you dare post anything about what I would say in some situation, Matt”
scav
Rather a lot of Christians have forgotten that, according to the original playbook at least, they’re not the one’s grading their own homework at the end of time. That “Old Time Religion” had a lot of people very very anxious about this and reminding themselves constantly of the consequences by putting up images of the Last Judgement up and it’s remarkable how uncosy they generally are.
It’s also really really easy to imagine yourself on a winning baseball team if you get to insist that everyone that strikes out isn’t on it, no matter the uniform they were wearing when they took the swing.
LongHairedWeirdo
Loglines? I dunno, never did them, never heard them by that name, but I was aware of the context.
I’m not good at thinking “what if X was still alive?” so I came up with:
“After a seance, bigoted Ronald Mump finds he’s been possessed by the spirit of Martin Luther King Jr., who proceeds to show him that it is the only love of justice that should be colorblind.”
Hollywood would eat it up, unless it portrayed Mr. Mump in a bad light, because then “it would be making white people feel guilty for being white! (Instead of, you know, feeling guilty about bigotry?)”
Kay
@James E Powell:
Oh, I agree. The only people we should bother explaining it to is the Democratic base, but to do that you have to be pretty rough and blunt and I would suggest dropping the “ask”. So don’t tell them “elect more Democrats”- you just told them Manchin and Sinema are Democrats and they’re blocking the whole agenda. Just tell them “It’s Manchin and Sinema” and let them take it from there. They’ll get it. Don’t supply the solution. Bring them in on the problem and trust them with it.
The Pale Scot
Cue MLK’s anger translator
Brachiator
@MisterDancer:
Very true. Also, while MLK was one of the most important leaders of the 60s civil rights movement, he was not the only leader of the movement.
In addition to celebrating his day, it would also be fun for people to read on the other leaders, especially the gay and women civil rights activists whose roles were often downplayed even during the 60s.
Also, I sometimes combine a celebration of Dr King with a remembrance of Malcolm X, whom I consider to be another essential leader of the period.
zhena gogolia
@Kay: Isn’t that where “I like beer” went?
Geminid
@Kay: Yeah, I wouldn’t trust Manchin’s word, and this story is third hand information anyway. The facts about what was in the bill he says he wrote with Abrams are known by Klobucher and other Senators, and staff members as well. And if the bill were to be put up as written by Manchin he might very well find another reason to not push it through with a filibuster carve-out.
Abrams evidently had not given up as of last Tuesday, when she tweeted:
So I guess it’s possible a voting rights bill may still be passed. Some provisions like the proposed redistricting requirements may have to be dropped.
Now that redistricting is mostly done, that might not be a disaster. People have assumed that Republican gerrymandering would doom the Democratic House majority, Democratic redistricters seem to have fought the Republicans to a draw, though, and the map may even turn out slightly more favorable to Democrats than the last one.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: But they aren’t Republicans. They are shitty Democrats, but they voted for Schumer as Majority Leader, they vote for some legislation, and the vote for Biden’s nominees.
billcinsd
@Kay: Well, probably more like 65 Dem Senators because the Senate would have a few, as Dr. King described them, white moderates
@Kay:
Geminid
@Omnes Omnibus: Besides Manchin and Sinema, Murkowski has also been voting mostly for Biden’s nominees. I don’t think she has sided with the majority on any substantial policy initiatives besides the Infrastructure bill. That could change in the next Congress, after she is reelected. Alaska’s new ranked choice, open primary system makes Murkowski’s reelection probable, but she seems to be very cautious right now.
MisterDancer
Check the post that should appear in about 10 min from now, for a bit of that. :)
WaterGirl
@Hazmat: Thank you for that. $300 to Michigan.
Kay
@Omnes Omnibus:
But you can’t just keep telling them “vote for Democrats”, because you’re inevitably in the position of then saying “but not these Democrats! I meant some better ones!”
That’s why I said it was harsh. You have to break ranks and identify two Democrats as the issue. It’s either do that or the whole brand gets blamed. Democrats are (now) doing that because they don’t have any choice.
Avalie
Just gave another $50 for Four Directions/Michigan
lowtechcyclist
This. This is what needs to be front and center. As you say, they’re perfectly OK with the level of Federal voting rights protection to go back to its pre-1965 level. Of essentially none at all.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: I don’t disagree that calling them out and separating them from the rest of the Dems is needed. We cannot say that they are Republicans they manifestly are not. This is where the old “more and better Democrats” comes in. More works in most cases, but Sinema and Manchin fit the better Democrats model.
WaterGirl
@Avalie: Thank you so much! $300 more for Michigan!
lowtechcyclist
Notable alumni of Georgetown Prep include Bogus Scotus members Kavanaugh and Gorsuch.
I remember being in a cross-country meet at Georgetown Prep back in the late 1960s. They had their own (9-hole, I think) golf course, which had us all awed.
lowtechcyclist
Dying thread, I know, but we only need 50 Senators + VP Harris to kill the filibuster. So if M&S are the only two to vote against killing it (or carving a big enough exception to get voting rights done), we need 52 Dem Senators. If they’re covering for another 2 or 3 in the shadows with the same attitude, then we need 54 or 55 Dem Senators. I doubt we’d need anywhere near 60.
A question about the filibuster, if anyone’s still around:
What we’re really talking about here is that 60 votes is needed for cloture, that is, to end debate on a bill. What happens if they keep the bill on the floor, and at 3am, after somebody finishes speechifying, nobody else rises to speak?
Can the chair simply call the question at that point, and get an up-or-down vote on the bill itself? IOW, is there a need for a cloture vote before the vote on the bill itself if debate has ended on its own?
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
No. The modern filibuster requires 60 affirmative votes to move on to the next stage.
evodevo
I gave $25 to Four Directions the other day – is it too late to report it?
Geminid
@lowtechcyclist: I don’t think there are any Democrats “hiding in the shadows” when it comes a filibuster carveout for voting rights. At least, Angus King (ME) and Mark Warner (VA) have called for one, and they are among the very most conservative members of the Democratic Caucus.
The abolition of the filibuster in general would be a different story.
Ryan
@Leto: Yes, this.
WaterGirl
@evodevo: Nope, I’ll include it in angel match #7. That’s $150 for Michigan. :-)
Kay
@lowtechcyclist:
Just incredibly diverse and vibrant leadership – they all go to the same high school.
Honestly these people would benefit from a little CRT. Pump some fresh air into that museum.
Another Scott
@Baud: For legislation, apparently yes. But in general, because of all the exceptions, it’s complicated, isn’t it?
E.g. Schumer forcing cloture votes on Biden’s nominations in December. Vox:
All things are possible in the Senate with “unanimous consent”.
I wonder if, without changes to the cloture/filibuster system, we’ll end up with more of the “message from the House” procedures. I also wonder if there are any other obscure rules that can come into play…
Maybe someday all this nonsense will go away when they fix Aaron Burr deleting the “previous question”:
Cheers,
Scott.
satby
Been offline all day but wanted to pop in and say thanks to and for highlighting my comment and all you jackals who have donated to SNAP!