Midnight in Washington Book Club Meeting #2 is tonight at 8pm Eastern time.
Several folks will be live-blogging the Adam Schiff portion of the zoom here in the comments. Let’s see how the thread tonight goes, and we can definitely make the BJ thread not at the same time as the zoom going forward.
I’ll ask our live-bloggers to write a comment as soon as they get to the thread and let everyone know they will be live-blogging for us.
Thanks to everyone who volunteered!
Also, if anyone didn’t receive a link to the zoom, please say so here ASAP or send me email ASAP.
Excited about Adam Schiff joining us!
Omnes Omnibus
Don’t embarrass us, okay?
japa21
@Omnes Omnibus: Sorry, I am committed to doing just that.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: Uh oh, John Cole is coming! :-)
SpaceUnit
@WaterGirl:
Good. Senator Schiff needs to weigh in on whether or not the willow is too close to the house.
A Good Woman
Live blogger for tonight, now online and waiting for the Zoom.
WaterGirl
@A Good Woman: thank you!
Baud
WaterGirl rocks!
Leslie
Looking forward to the live-blogging, with thanks to those doing so. I’m only a few chapters into the book.
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl: Is the recording going to be put online?
zhena gogolia
Do we not get admitted unless we’ve changed our name to our nym
Never mind.
sab
Seconds left so OT. We met the goal for FourCorners Midwest!!!
egorelick
Hi, in the years I have been reading almost everything here, this will be the most I have commented ever. (I would be surprised if I have more than 50 comments total over the last 10 years.) Anyway, I’ll do my best to live blog.
Nancy
Hello all!
I am going to try to be a live blogger.
Nancy
I’m so excited and honored to be able to do this. I hope that my fingers can keep up with my brain.
egorelick
Interesting discussion about Raskin’s book and how that story is so compelling.
Lyrebird
@Nancy: I will also try to keep up and add in. How about I try to get the third question? We’ll see…
Lyrebird
Just testing out. WG you have a beautiful portrait with that puppy dog…
A Good Woman
Chief of Staff, and now Adam, have arrived
Chbnna
Hi everyone, I’ll be attempting to live blog tonight too!
egorelick
It’s about to begin! He just joined.
Nancy
Adam Schiff is joining soon, his chief of staff just joined and said he’s on his way.
Congressman just joined us. Watergirl is introducing us.
A Good Woman
Water Girl setting the stage.
Adam is here as author but is willing to take whatever questions.
Scamp Dog
And I’m in on the Zoom, ready to live blog!
egorelick
FIrst question: Oops, John Cole needs to say a few words and he welcomes the Congressman.
Lyrebird
Cole is up, modestly thanking the Congressman … on to the moderator
Chbnna
Rep Schiff explaining that he wrote the book because he had been encouraged by members of congress to write down his experiences. The pandemic allowed him to find the time to do so. He mainly wrote the book to sound the alarm about the fragility of democracy.
egorelick
Intro: On the House floor, had colleagues who told him it was important to bear witness (my words). Pandemic hit and he found time plus reflected now was the time. He wanted to convey the changes that have happened in his lifetime. Post WW2, lots of expansion of freedom. Except nothing immutable about justice. It’s a struggle.
Lyrebird
The forced seclusion of the pandemic gave him the time to write his book.
His aims:
to sound the alarm about how fragile our democracy is, seeing autocracy on the rise
to document the historic event that the impeachment was
Nancy
John Cole has just thanked Rep Schiff.
Curt is inviting him to talk about whatever.
AS starts: colleagues would say”I hope you’re writing this down, something historic” When the pandemic hit he discovered he had time to write. He wanted to reach two audiences and make two points:
1
to sound the alarm about how fragile our democracy is
things have changed since many of us came up. we might have assumed freedom was normal.
The arc of the universe is not bending toward justice, the autocrats are in charge
2
and after trying two impeachment cases, he knew how infrequent and historic they are.
He wanted to document how it was to be there.
A Good Woman
Adam began with why he wrote the book.
Colleagues encouraged him, noting that he was in the middle of something historic. He didn’t see when he would have time. Pandemic changed the calculus, and now was the time.
Two audiences —
1 – sound the alarm broadly about fragility of democracy and the risk. The generation after WWII experienced growth of democracies and we assumed this was the trajectory of the universe.
we now know autocrats on the rise, arc is not bending towards justice.
2 – having tried 2 impeachment cases, knew it was infrequent and of historic interest. Wanted blow x blow of Johnson’s impeachment, the issues, what happened. etc.
Wanted to provide a resource for the future, and address the gaslighting over the past few years.
egorelick
Impeachment is rare. No blow-by-blow of Johnson’s impeachment. Future students and historians would want a primary resource. Also, a counter to gaslighting. This was his desire in writing the book.
narya
I like that he’s calling it gaslighting that he’s fighting against.
Scamp Dog
Adam is talking about how he came to write the book.
A Good Woman
Parts of the story were traumatic to relive, but believed there was value to have it in one place and in a coherent narrative.
Drinking out of a firehose, what did the big picture looks like.
Lyrebird
As much as he loves to write, reliving some of the events by putting them on paper was sometimes a burden. Still thinks it is useful.
egorelick
He likes writing but some parts weren’t easy. Some things were traumatic – reliving the events.
Curt characterizes the House as creating a hostile work environment. How did it feel for you was the question.
brantl
Re: Hostile workplace, I wonder what his take is on Boresmuch’s lack of mask at the Supremes.
Scamp Dog
First question is about how the Republicans have made Congress a hostile workplace for Democrats. The congressman is pointing out how the R’s are making physical violence part of the situation, which would absolutely get someone fired in the private sector.
egorelick
Paul Gosar, virulent anti-semitic tropes, encouragement of violence – if this was a private workplace, they would be out. There is a real potential for violence. One party is pushing violence, pushing a story of illegitimate elections. The workplace feels quite hostile. (This feels to me like it understates the toxicity of what is happening based on his description.)
Lyrebird
The Rep. agrees with Casey’s comment that the Rs have made the House a hostile work environment. He sees the anti-democratic take from the Rs as paving the way for further violence. Sees current retirements as possibly a comment on the hostile environment. Makes the country vulnerable.
A Good Woman
1st question – Congress is a workplace, GOP has made it a hostile work environment. Is this on purpose, what is the effect on Schiff and staff.
Adam – astute and accurate. Examples of members engaging in activities that would get them fired in private industry.
Real sense of foreboding of future violence. One party pushing the lie about the last election and can no longer can rely on elections. This paves the way for future violence and has to some extent.
Workplace feels quite hostile. You see it in the number of retirees who don’t want to deal with it.
Consistent death threats but also provides a sense of mission.
Nancy
Writing was a labor of love but parts of the writing were traumatic but there is value in setting it down in a coherent narrative for historical record, delineate the big picture
First question:
Congress is a currently a hostile work environment: what are his thoughts?
Schiff agrees and says this is an accurate observation
Notes Paul Gosar video about murdering colleague
others with violent tropes
sense of foreboding, fear in this hostile work place
see ## of retirees from congress.
Danger, consistent death threats
BUT he and others have a sense of mission.
Emily: AS highlighted his shock at the REpubs behavior- to what does he attribute this?
Scamp Dog
Athenaze is asking her question. Why are the R’s doing this? Are they responding to an ever-more-radical base, or something else? He’s quoting someone (forgot the name) that power doesn’t so much corrupt as reveal character. The desire to hold more power has shown what kind of people they are.
Chbnna
Emily Question: In your book you highlight the shocking behavior of congress, what do you attribute this to? Is it just polarized environment or something about their base?
Rep Schiff: mentioned that power doesn’t corrupt it just reveals what they are. Example 1, power revealed that Liz Cheney has tremendous courage. Her beliefs and country more important than her position and ambition. Example 2, is Elise Stefanic (sp) who stepped up to peddle the lie and to put ambition above all including the truth.
Nancy
AS
Power doesn’t corrupt so much as it reveals (I missed name of historian he quoted) and he used Trumpian appointments and followers as examples.
Power also revealed who Liz Cheney–despite political disagreements with her, he sees that she wouldn’t go along with the Big Lie.
Meanwhile, Elise Stefanik was ready to tell the Big Lie for power and position–revealing what she is.
egorelick
Emily asks that the book talks about the poor behavior of Republican House members. What’s going on? Are they playing to their base?
“Power doesn’t corrupt, it reveals”
Trump gave permission. People feared losing their job or wanted more power.
Nancy
I hope this is making some kind of sense.
brantl
I think Liz Cheney thinks this is the only path for her to higher power, I don’t think there’s any other path available to her. As morally bereft as she is, she can’t hang with the mouthbreathers.
A Good Woman
Emily’s question – refers to Schiff’s shock at increasing poor behavior of GOP reps. What is causing this? Polarized base or something else?
Adam – power doesn’t corrupt so much as it reveals. In era of Trump, people got behind president to retain positions, obtain new opportunities to acquire power.
2 examples – Liz Cheney – great courage and conviction despite differences in ideology. Something more important than position and ambition in this situation.
Elise Stefanik is willing to tell whatever lie, and got Cheney’s job. Previously portrayed herself as a moderate, so this is just about ambition.
One of his takeaways from the impeachment trials – problem is less about the Constitution, more about ourselves. Staying to true to their oaths and facts, otherwise nothing works.
Comes down to what people are made of. Ambition and fear. Things they profess did not hold up to desire for power.
egorelick
Members of Congress have to live up to their oath. They have to accept the truth. They have to reject “alternate facts”. Ambition, fear, lack of character are the problem.
Nancy
AS What people are made of. All too often they’re made of ambition and fear. What they professed to believe didn’t matter when faced with the possibility of power and position.
CarolPW
@Nancy: It is, you guys are doing fine.
Lyrebird
Follow-up q
Ag also felt overwhelmed hearing it.
Were there parts of the book that were particularly difficult to write?
Hardest part to relive:
When Bill Barr first issued his false summary of the Mueller report.
He was deeply skeptical, since he correctly guessed Mueller wouldve written his own.
He heard rumors that Mueller’s team was apoplectic,
but he had no defense against the right wing noise machine
brantl
what rights would your committee have had to the report (Mueller’s)? Could you have subpoenaed it?
Scamp Dog
Question from Laura: Were there parts of the book that were overwhelming to write? Laura herself thought the book was overwhelming to read?
The most difficult part to write was about Bill Barr writing his false summary of the Mueller report. Schiff was skeptical about the summary when he first read it, and got filleted by R activists about his skepticism. Schiff thinks that Barr was one of the most dangerous people in the administration, turning the Justice department into more of a criminal defense firm.
Chbnna
Argiope Question: opens by thanking Rep Schiff for his service. Asks if there were parts of the book that were particularly hard to write, that were overwhelming
Rep Schiff Answer: part of the book that was the hardest to write was when Bill Barr issued the 4 page summary of the Mueller Report. He knew there was more information that couldn’t possible be summarized in 4 pages.
Nancy
Aigiope asks about parts of the book that were hard to write.
AS was sceptical about
Bill Barr’s summary of the Mueller Report.
He couldn’t comment without having the report. He was attacked based on Barr’s summary. When report was finally released, Barr still misrepresented the work. This was successful and cemented the narrative.
This was most difficult for AS personally.
Sees Bass as dangerous.
Another Scott
Thanks very much for the play-by-play, and the multiple perspectives. It’s very helpful.
Cheers,
Scott.
sab
Other side people okay with serious physical threats. I had heard rumors but waiting for confirmation.
Yikes! Our guys in Congress are amazing and should not need to be. We should only need competent, honest and deteremined.
Sure Lurkalot
Thanks live bloggers!
egorelick
Laura asks we have all been here and been through this. There is a sense of overwhelm. What parts of the book were hardest to write?
Bill Barr’s false summary of the Mueller report was the worst. He was skeptical. Mueller probably had his own summary. Why would Barr issue his own summary? His skepticism grew, but without the report, what could he say. With no report, Schiff could not defend himself against the Right Wing attacks. Barr made false representations (successfully). This was the most difficult personal thing because Barr was successful even though he was false. Barr perverted the DOJ.
Lyrebird
@Lyrebird:
“as it turns out that quite blatant misrepresentation…
was really successful”
Was most difficult to relive him spinning in the wind, but Barr’s narrative had really sunk in.
Viewed Barr as the second most dangerous person in the administration… made the DOJ into the pres’ personal defense firm. As a former prosecutor with such high regard for the department… this made AS sick.
Nancy
@CarolPW:
Thanks.
egorelick
Barr intervened in the case of Roger Stone. Barr intervened in the sentencing recommendation, and he intervened for Flynn. Schiff looked at Barr and couldn’t understand. “What is the deal?” Why would he be willing to destroy his reputation and the reputation of the department?
H.E.Wolf
Many thanks to the team of livebloggers! It’s great to get the summaries from each of you – all of it is well worth hearing (reading) in stereo. Much appreciated.
brantl
Barr has only ruined his reputation with Democrats; this is exactly the reputation Barr wants with Republicans.
Baud
Another thank you to the live bloggers. You’re doing great!
Lyrebird
He still wants to find some reason why Barr would destroy his own reputation and a good part of the DOJ (‘s reputation?)
Under GHWB, a president with integrity, he behaved differently by and large. But now we know he was involved in drafting the justification for seizing & detaining Noriega. Turns out he misled the public about the contents… Barr had been lying the whole time.
He wasn’t a different person, but he was surrounded by different people than under Trump.
Barr, Rudy G… [eta: Dersh] craving to be relevant again.
A Good Woman
Laura’s question – had to stop several times due to feeling overwhelmed. Were there parts of the book hard to write due to sense of overwhelm or realixing this was historical, get the facts right.
Adam – referred to Barr’s summary of Mueller report. Surprised that Barr wrote one, and was skeptical about it, expected Mueller had a summary. Without the report could not say anything. Was being filleted by the RW. Had no defense because no report. Referred to the news conference and the blatant misrepresentation about Mueller’s report. Was very successful in cementing those notions.
Viewed Barr as 2nd most dangerous person in the admin. Corrupted the DOJ in ways not seen since Nixon. Referred to Stone case and Barr’s intervention in the sentence recommendation. Then intervenes in Flynn case, makes it go away. What is the deal? Does he want seat at table of power? Willing to destroy his reputation and the department?
Under GHW Bush served with integrity. Worked in Office of Legal Counsel and developed opinion on seizing a foreign leader — Noriega. Misrepresented it to the public, this was discovered decades later when opinion was released.
Craving for relevance — Barr, Dershowitz, Giuliani – shows what people will do.
egorelick
Barr drafted a memo way back about the US power to retain a foreign leader (Noriega). He lied about the contents of that memo. When surrounded by better people, we didn’t see how terrible a person he was until he was surrounded by people of low character. There is also a desire to be relevant again that motivates people.
Nancy
AS questions Barr’s motives. What he was beneath the surface. Even when he worked for GHW Bush Barr wrote an opinion about US seizing Noreiga a foreign leader.
His real character was revealed when he was tethered to Trump.
AS comments on the desire to be relevant ie: Guillani and Dershowitz will sell their souls (my words)
Chbnna
Rep Schiff views Bill Barr the 2nd most dangerous person in America, Barr really corrupted the Dept of Justice. he used the department to cover up for the president, to interfere in cases to benefit the president. Interfere in Flynn’s case. He looks at someone like Barr and he asks himself what was the deal with him, was it the power, staying relevant? 2 phenomena with Bill Bar, under Bush he presented himself with more integrity but it waws later revealed that he had been lying about Noriega. It wasn’t that he wasn’t capable of lying it was just that he was surrounded by different people, under Trump he was able to really able to do come down to their level.
Scamp Dog
Barr misrepresented a report he wrote about imprisoning foreign leaders (when we captured Manuel Noriega), and nobody knew about it for decades until the report itself was released. Barr was more restrained when he was surrounded by people of integrity; when he was in the Trump administration, he could really let go and mislead at will, as he did with the Mueller report.
Lyrebird
MomSense:
“I’ve been at DefCon Hair On Fire about the insurrection… ..but some of my friends and acquaintances just want to ignore it.”
How can we communicate the importance of accountability
in a way that encourages them to engage in repairing our democracy, not just overwhelm
AS responds:
In 2-3 months, high profile public hearings,
as part of that story, Jan 6 isn’t about a single day, it’s about multiple lines of effort to undermine a presidential election.
giving details…
egorelick
MomSense is up. People want to ignore what’s happening. Stress and fatigue takes it toll and people just want normalcy. How can we convey what is happening and get people to engage?
There will be hearing to tell the story. Telling the story will not just be about 1/6. There are multiple lines of attack 1. Local election officials 2. Trying to find votes that didn’t exist. 3. Fake electors 4. Pushing Pence 5. Violence. This started before the election. It was a conspiracy (my word) to overturn the election.
Nancy
Mom Sense
who is at DEF CON hair on fire but friends want to ignore it all
Stress and fatigue are too much for them, they just want to get back to normalcy
How can we communicate the urgency?
AS Understand that need but
The committee will begin holding hearings that will detail the multiple lines of effort involved in overturning the election results, (goes through the list of outrages we are familiar with)
“We hope to use a series of public hearings to elucidate” and emphasize that the danger is not ended.
Lyrebird
@Another Scott:
Thanks dude!
…hoping “dude” is okay for you
egorelick
There will be series of recommendations. Congress is moving with great speed (for them). Supreme Court will allow records to be released. People need to push back efforts to disenfranchise and to attack infrastructure of elections. People who are being drummed out of their positions who are technocrats need support so they are not replaced by dishonest partisans.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Sure Lurkalot:
Seconded! Thank you all so much!
Lyrebird
Most important thing:
push back against the efforts to disenfranchise people
push back against the efforts to discredit elections
support local election officials
don’t let ’em get run out of their jobs
get online to help other parts of the country, e.g. TX
Talking about Joaquin Castro – voters being denied ballots based on the new laws
A Good Woman
Mom Sense question – gave brief intro on her background campaigning in Maine. In DefCon Hair On Fire for some time. Finds friends and acquaintenances want to ignorei, looking for end to stress and return to normalcy. How do we explain why getting to the truth is important. Why it matters.
Adam – this notion occupies the thinking of the committee. Expecting to have high profile public hearings in 2-3 months on Jan 6. Not just about Jan 6 but multiple lines of effort to overturn the election; use DOJ to promulgate false claims of fraud, suborn election officials, pressure campaign on VP and use of force. This began before the election with the claim that absentee ballots are sources of fraud, can’t trust ballots counted after Election Day.
Return to Jim Crow laws, create opportunities to overturn elections are outcomes we are seeing.
Referred to SCOTUS overturning stay on NARA providing documents.
What we can do is push back against efforts to disenfranchise people and destroy infrastructure of elections. Support people being threatened in effort to drive them out and replace with partisans. Get involved online to help other parts of the country needing help.
Referred to conversation with Joaquin Castro – thousands of requests for absentee ballots being refused.
Nancy
AS
We can push back against the efforts they are making to weaken the system, for example, ethical election officials being forced out; we can support them.
Gives example of voters in TX requesting absentee ballots, being rejected, we need to support those voters who need help in finding their way through the new laws.
egorelick
Castro form Texas was talking with Schiff about 10s of thousands of absentee ballot requests are being denied. Question about auditing Dershowitz’s class (Schiff went to Harvard Law School).
Chbnna
Momsense Question: asks that there are people that are on defcon 5 about the insurrection , but so many people are not feeling that sense of urgency, they just want to ignore the problem. How do we bring additional attention to the subject?
Rep Schiff: Our plan is to schedule a series of very public hearing about Jan 6th that will tell the story of that day. And that it really wasn’t just about Jan 6th but really a movement over several days to attempt to change the results of the election. From pressuring local electors, to pressuring Vice President. In terms of what you can do, is to push back on people and efforts to protect the institutions of elections. If electors are being harassed or pushed out, defend them, provide support. There are ways to help online, help people who have problems voting or requesting mail in ballots.
egorelick
Decided to audit Dersh’s class because Guliani and he were in the incredible debate regarding NYC police corruption. Dersh’s class was boring and not about the law; he just talked about himself. When Dershowitz 1st appeared at the impeachment trial, he talked like a law professor. His speech at the trial was better than his class. Sounded like law school.
Then he went off the deep end after the 1st hour. Breathtaking, constitutionally basis argument after the introduction.
Nancy
Story about AS auditing Alan Dershowitz’s class, seminar in criminal law years ago. He got bored, because it was all about Dershowitz, not about law.
Talks about all the great professors he learned from.
Dershowitz performed at the trial (AS) at first he made sense then suddenly went off the rails. IE: Trump was justified in smearing Biden. shocking to AS that Dershowitz would do this.
A Good Woman
Question about auditing Dershowitz’s class
Adam – had seen debate between Dershowitz and Giuliani on series of cases regarding NYC police. Both were at the top of their game so Adam went to check it out.
Went to class, got bored, learned nothing, Dershowitz was talking about himself.
Referred to L. Tribe, a very good professor.
Referred to Dershowitz’s appearance at Senate trial – disagreed with his argument but was entertained. Staff couldn’t believe he was entertained.
Dershowitz argument that if the president thought something was necessary to ensure reelection it was OK. Dangerously absurd argument. Got benched after that by Trump team.
Seems legal talent is waning.
egorelick
Dershowitiz – “dangerously absurd” was benched. Schiff was shocked as to what a poor advocate he was at the impeachment trial. One more question.
How do you retain your optimism?
Scamp Dog
Question from an anonymous commenter about Schiff auditing Dershowitz’s class. He had watched Giuliani and Dershowitz on opposite sides of a case, but found that the class was largely Dershowitz talking about himself, instead of the law. He learned a lot more from other professors.
During the impeachment, Rep Schiff was impressed with the start of Dershowitz’s defense, and then saw that he went of the deep end with some nonsensical arguments (a not-quite-quote: “if the president believes his reelection is in the best interests of the country, it’s OK for him to subvert the process”).
Lyrebird
Last question: how do you maintain your optimism?
Used to tell people he takes horse tranqs but maybe over the line…
He says, focus on the heroes like Marie Yovanovich
Her act of courage and patriotism was contagious,
and that of Vindman Taylor Holmes
There are more courageous people than those on the other side, they will carry us through
egorelick
“Horse tranquilizers” (better than horse deworming paste). There are heros. You can fixate on the Barr’s and other people or you can focus on the heros. Marie Ivanovich(sp?) is a hero. She comes back from Eastern Europe because her life is in danger and she came courageously to Congress and testified. Vindeman, Fiiona Hill, Bill Taylor and others had courage. People like this are there throughout the country. This too shall pass.
Lyrebird
Nancy SMASH tells them, “Know your own power”
he says that applies to all of us
“We can all have an impact.”
Scamp Dog
Ending thought: Speaker Pelosi like to say “Know your own power.” Nothing is more debilitating that to believe you have no power to change your circumstances.
Raoul Paste
The time has just flown by
brantl
@Scamp Dog: It wasn’t a report, it was a legal opinion that we could legally take Noriega, which is legally laughable. Barr has never been a “Good guy”, he was just good at hiding it.
Nancy
Last ??
How does Rep Schiff retain his optimism?
used to tell people he took horse tranquilizers, but for real
he focuses on the heroes for ex Marie Evanovich. Harassed by TFG and his alllies. State Dept told her not to testify, but she’s a patriot and her courage inspired others.
Alexander Vindaman and Marie Hill, examples of courage. Their courage will help us get through this.
In crisis it’s hard to see how it ends. What we do at this moment will impact how quickly this will pass.
Nancy Pelosi “Know your own power”
We can all have an impact. None of us are powerless. We can each do our part.
Inspiring words from Congressman Schiff.
A Good Woman
Louise – how do you retain optimism in the face of the challenges.
Adam – used to joke about taking horse tranquilizers.
Need to spend more time on the heroes, like Marie Yavonovitch. Her own president and his allies hound her out and threaten her. She is patriot and knows her duty, testifies. Believes this was infectious and encouraged others. Gave names of the many who stepped forward.
There is a contagion of cowardice, but it is the Yavonovitch, Vindmans, Taylors who will get us through this.
When you are in crisis hard to see how it will end. What we do determines how long and what will occur.
Speaker likes to say – know your own power.
We all have our own power to influence fhose within our circle and have an impact. None of us are powerless. We need to figure out what is and do it. This keeps him going and optimistic.
egorelick
I will have to be leaving soon and so does Schiff. He ends with Pelosi’s quote “Know your own power”.
Reality is none of us are powerless. We all have the ability. Don’t take on everything; choose something in the next year and do it. Something important.
What a pleasure. Will be back on February 2nd.
Chbnna
Question: how to you retain your optimism?
Answer: I used to tell people that i took a lot of horse tranquillizers. But seriously i should spend more time emphasizing the heroes in the book, but people like Maria Yayanovich, gets hounded out of her post, is being told she can’t be protected, she’s being told by her own president and government that she must return to US. Trump and Justice Alexander Vyndam and people liek them will get us through the tough times. We’re you’re in crisis it is hard to see how or when it ends, but what we do in this moment will determine how long it will take to pass and how much damage is done along the way. Speaker Pelosi likes to say “know your own power” Not all actions are going to be like the Vindman. Within your own circle we can all have an impact.
A Good Woman
There were 77 attendees, at least from Europe.
Schiff is gone.
debbie
@Nancy:
Very much so. Thanks!
Scout211
Thank you live-bloggers. You all did a wonderful job and made us feel like we were almost there.
TheflipPsyd
Thank you to all the live bloggers. All of you are doing such a fantastic job. I couldn’t do the zoom, but i still feel like I’m there. A very heart-felt thank you
Steeplejack
@Lyrebird:
Puh-leeze. Barr was tits-deep in the Iran-Contra affair under good old Pappy Bush. He has always been a corrupt Republican apparatchik. Wikipedia:
ETA: I see that other people have said Barr was corrupt back then but more constrained by the people around him. Not sure I buy that either.
Scamp Dog
@brantl: Yep, good correction on it being an opinion instead of a report. You’re absolutely right about Barr being better at hiding it when he had to.
zhena gogolia
This was so cool! He was great, so down to earth and friendly (I know, I know, politician, but really great).
HRA
Many thanks and appreciation to the live bloggers keeping us informed.
West of the Rockies
Live bloggers, you are doing a fantastic job! Thank you all!
debbie
Thanks, bloggers! It was like I was there!
sab
I live in Ohio. We cope. My sisters kids mostly all moved to CA. We admire you and are hopeful, but remembwr how nuts (not irremedial) we are. We need clear arguments about how not normal and not founding fathera this is.
Adam Schiff is a very good lawyer. We need slightly less exalted legal guys explaining this to normies. Rule of law isn’t automatic.
Rule of law by armed thugs is if there is nothing else in place.
My RWNJ brother thinks rule of law with some ideoligical tweaking is possible.
I think he has no idea what is out there held back.
Nancy
So honored to be able to do this. As Curt is saying, he wasn’t a politician tonight, he was a funny human being–a honey badger in a good way.
A Good Woman
This was a great Zoom and Schiff was a wonderful guest. I think the next session should be equally fun and I am ready to rinse and repeat as a live blogger.
WaterGirl
I can’t read most of this because we are still zooming, but I can already tell that the live bloggers are doing a wonderful job. I hope it’s not just me and that you guys think so, too.
sab
@WaterGirl: Yep.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Thank you live bloggers! Thank you Rep. Schiff for your valiant efforts to preserve and expand our nascent democracy.
Steeplejack
Very well done by the live bloggers. Suggestion: Perhaps next time they could each take one question in rotation so that they have more time to write their comment and the readers don’t get three(?) very similar accounts of each question.
Ohio Mom
Thank you live bloggers! During the first thread, I thought, we need this to be live-blogged — and now we have live-blog times (lost count) many. It’s great to be able to “hear” the discussion, and also to know there’s a written record to look back on. I bet your fingers and brains all had a work out, keeping up.
Starting off with the question about
Congress being a hostile work place was brilliant. It’s an insightful comment on its own, and I imagine it made Schiff feel understood and let him know we are on his side and also, a perceptive and well-informed group.
Someone in Schiff’s position is always going to tailor their presentation to their audience. He saw right away he could could go into detail and we would follow.
I hope he was heartened by our interest and spirit.
debbie
@Steeplejack:
I like the different interpretations. ??♀️
japa21
@Steeplejack: Being on the call, and looking at this, I have found that each live blogger found things slightly different in Adam’s response. Yes, duplication, but some uniqueness.
A Good Woman
@Steeplejack:
Good point
Ohio Mom
@debbie: I found the repetition both weird (as in feeling stuck in time momentarily) and helpful. Couldn’t miss a detail or a point when I read it in slightly different words several times in a row.
WaterGirl
@debbie: I think the different representations were really great. Like pieces of a puzzle that helped from the picture.
CarolPW
@WaterGirl: The live blogger comments could be followed in real time without overload or long gaps in comments, So despite some overlap in focus, if there had been fewer or if they had been assigned rotating questions blog readers would just have been waiting around too long for the next comment. I think it worked well.
HRA
@WaterGirl: I agree they were pieces of puzzle helping to show the picture.
Omnes Omnibus
I liked the optimism answer (big surprise!) and the humor in it.
Leto
@WaterGirl: Hey, someone asked in the Zoom call how we can watch a playback of the recorded video. Will this be posted somewhere? Not sure how that works and all.
Edit: also if this was already answered, just point me to it :)
Kristine
Many thanks to the live bloggers. I think it’s a pretty huge deal that Congressman Schiff took the time to attend.
Alison Rose
Maybe this is a dumb question, but WaterGirl, is it cool to mention that we got to do this to people outside of the blog? I mean like my friends and family, I don’t use Twitter or anything. I don’t know why but I was like…wait is this top secret? LOL…
Auntie Anne
I just got home and am reading the live-blog. All the different perspectives are helpful – and while I wish I could have participated, I feel really good about not missing AS’ comments. Thanks to all the live-bloggers!
laura
Live Blog Rashomon was Awesome! Great nuance and aspect! Thanks.
zhena gogolia
@Alison Rose: Good question. I have to admit my husband was “lurking” offscreen. It was so fab!
SiubhanDuinne
Have not yet read through the thread, but that Zoom with Congressman Schiff was all kinds of wonderful. Many thanks to everyone who live-blogged the call; am really looking forward to reading everyone’s comments.
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: Thank you so much, WaterGirl, for this amazing experience.
WereBear
It was an amazing experience to hear from such an astute thinker, knowing also that he is part of a team with the same goals we have.
That gives me hope.
We do have more brains and character on our side. Night all! The kitties are staring at me. I’m supposed to be going to bed now…
Elizabelle
@SiubhanDuinne: I can’t find my phone! And it’s 3:35 am here. But def be in touch later today.
It was a great Zoom.
Renie
A great suggestion in the Zoom, is for all of us to post positive reviews of the book on Amazon.
Gin & Tonic
Sounds like a good time was had. I was off doing local politics, maybe not as exciting.
CaseyL
Hi, everyone! I’m here from the Zoom session, and looked over the live-blogging here. I’m very impressed – and fascinated, by the overlapping reportage. It’s cool to see slightly different emphasis on each point that came up.
Thanks so much, live-bloggers!
Damned at Random
@Scout211:
I WAS there – and reviewing the live bloggers – they are awesome
@Scout211:
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic: But Rep. Schiff would approve.
sab
Not a zoomer, so I feel hmm. Glad a lot a of zoomers felt zoomed. I find that energizing and optomistic but weird. Who are you zoombies.
SiubhanDuinne
@Elizabelle:
No worries. Tomorrow or weekend would be fine. (I do have class tomorrow 11;15-12:45 Eastern, otherwise available.)
Travels with Charley
It was a wonderful experience! Like a great Balloon Juice thread, but even better! And mostly on only one topic…I think the live blog comments were spot on. The chat and comments afterward were also great. I don’t comment often (usually too late to threads), but I want to clarify one comment I made on chat. Someone (forgive me, forgot name!) said the great line “The people who hate us live right next to us.” I commented that that could be an opportunity? I did NOT mean that that individual should directly try to alter his neighbor’s behavior – yech! But, building on something MomSense was saying, that all true change occurs at the local level, in the one-on-one relationships that happen at that level. That also links to what Rep Schiff said about “make an impact where you are.”
So…I have a friend who is involved in a study (?) to facilitate dialogue between Republicans & Democrats – not diner dialogues, but in depth discussions. Early results are…interesting. I will talk to her more about this project, and its techniques, and report back? It might provide some ideas on how we – as a community – can engage more at the “local level.”
japa21
@Gin & Tonic:
Maybe not as exciting but probably more important.
japa21
@Travels with Charley:
That does sound interesting. Please provide updates.
MomSense
A big thank you to Curt and Watergirl and to the live bloggers. That was such a thrill to hear from him. He seemed to me to join us as Adam Schiff the person and author and not the politician.
MomSense
@Renie:
I’m going to review it on Audible since I used that service to download the audio version.
WaterGirl
@Alison Rose: You are free to shout it from the rooftops!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’d be interested in hearing about those discussions. The only Rs I regularly interact with are some relatives who are extremely conservative Catholics. We’ve always avoided politics, but one of them has gotten a bad case of Fox Brain. I plan our not-too-frequent conversations in advance to avoid politics, but talking to her has become a mine-field, almost any subject can be connected to some talking point that I’m sure Media Matters could trace to a given Fox host. I’ve read for years about people losing relatives to Fox, now I’m living it. It’s weird.
StringOnAStick
@Travels with Charley: That sounds like an excellent thing to report back on!
Elizabelle
@SiubhanDuinne: Thank you bud. That works. Heading back to bed. There might be snow on the ground when I wake up. Again.
WaterGirl
I just want to put this here in case it’s a good idea so I don’t forget it. I’m thinking that everyone who zoomed could write a few lines and phrases about the zoom with adam schiff and then we could make a word cloud for him as a thank you.
Great idea? Terrible idea?
Alison Rose
@WaterGirl: Huzzah, I’m off to brag! :)
StringOnAStick
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Lost my dad to Fox long ago, but given that he was a Bircher, it was inevitable. Not like we ever had much of a relationship anyway, given that anyone who was a Bircher in the 1960-70’s was a nut bag no matter what. Motivated reasoning is and always has been his approach to the world.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
StringOnAStick
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m glad Ossoff said that. Watching every R Senator and congressman quite MLK and talk about how much they loved Rep Lewis last weekend was disgusting, even more so when Sinema did it.
Leslie
Many thanks to the live bloggers! I liked having the overlapping viewpoints on the Q&A. And thanks again to WaterGirl for organizing this.
stinger
I attended the zoom, and now I’ve read through the live blogging and you guys did great! I love the layered versions of the conversation — each of you captured the basics and then added color through the specific details that caught your attention.
What a great experience! Thanks, WaterGirl, Curt, John, and all!
Leslie
@WaterGirl: Great idea.
frosty
@WaterGirl: Yes, the live blogging worked great. I feel like we didn’t miss anything since we had multiple takes on what was being presented.
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Thanks for that. I’ll be front-paging that tweet tomorrow.
WaterGirl
@frosty: I don’t think I would change a thing about the live blogging. I thought the way it worked out tonight was perfect.
Big thanks to every one of the live bloggers. You did great!
P.S. We would like to hire you again for the Feb 2 zoom with Adam Schiff. :-)
Yarrow
Thanks to all the livebloggers! You guys did great and it made it seem like we were there.
Don’t know how it worked for those in the Zoom but for me not in the zoom the liveblogging was great. Appreciate you guys doing it.
Dan B
@Nancy: We need, as Schiff lays out, a rapid response team. Barr put out his (false) narrative. Schiff didn’t have the facts but… a host of social media posters could have started a counter narrative: We smell a skunk. We smell corruption. We smell lies!
That would put Barr on his back feet. He’d have to defend his deception. That would show the possibility it was deceptive / a big lie!
Miss Bianca
Thank you, live bloggers! I had to miss the Zoom to do some of my own reporting, but loved, loved, loved all your takes on it – almost felt like I was there! Thanks again to WaterGirl and everyone who put this together! I will try to make the next Zoom call with AS in attendance!
eddie blake
@Travels with Charley: that was me
eta- technical question: is it possible to rewatch the zoom? my partner wants to see it.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
That’s my Senator. Good job.
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
Fab idea! (I still think we should give him a little Balloon Juice swag and will email you with thoughts).
Jim, Foolish Literalist
the classic Kinsley Gaffe: When they’re speaking off the cuff and accidentally say what they really think
StringOnAStick
I just saw on Adam Schiff ‘s Twitter feed that document production from the National Archives (access that was won today by a USSC decision to not take up this case) has already begun, as of basically right now. I am unclear if this is all 4 sets or just the 4th set that mango Moron’s lawyers forgot to include in the original ask for privilege of the first 3, but it’s a start. Interesting that someone got right to transmitting them immediately.
Cowgirl in the Sandi
This was very cool. And even better was the live blogging so that after the Zoom was over, I could go back and review what was said in the live blog. Thanks to the live bloggers and Watergirl for putting this together. And to Adam Schiff – what a guy!
StringOnAStick
@StringOnAStick: According to TPM, this is hundreds of pages and includes handwritten noted by White House staff during the insurrection, call logs and drafts of speeches the beast was supposed to give that day, likely to be the ones sides wanted him to give to calm things down but he refused to give them. The “records purportedly come from Chief of Staff Mark Meadows,deputy White House counsel Patrick Philbin, and advisor Stephen Miller.”. Please, please let there be plenty for the media is easily salivate over.
Mai Naem mobile
Thanks to the live bloggers. WG I think you should try and get Jamie Raskin next.
BeautifulPlumage
Haven’t finished the post yet, but need to commend the live bloggers! So amazing to get the slightly different takes; like seeing a jewel with many facets. What a great record of the session you’ve created! Bravo and thanks for your time & talents.
Nancy
@Nancy:
Bass=Barr
Perhaps some kind of Freudian slip here; Barr is an ass?
Nancy
@Dan B:
Great idea. Perhaps Balloon-Juice stalwarts who are better at all this internet stuff than I am could lead the effort.
I’m appreciating reading all the reactions to the experience again this morning and being inspired again by the ideas for working as we move forward.
Nancy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Thank you! This is so telling. After I read it to my husband, he asked if it was really a mistake.
Maybe he really did mean to say it just like that signals to his base.
Nancy
WaterGirl:
For the word cloud project:
Inspiring.
Rep. Adam Schiff and the BJ questioners and facilitators gave me hope for the future without sugar-coating the challenges we face.
Reality that was not depressing. And it was fun.
J R in WV
I’ve finished reading this whole thread — a great job by everyone, including Congressman Schiff, who is a superstar of American politics right now. We see him on evening news programs pretty often ( CNN and MSNBC ) where he is always on point, well spoken, etc. So no surprise that he was a great interview with people who support him and his party.
It would be great if the Zoom call could be posted…
Thanks to Watergirl, John G Cole, and all the callers who participated. Who knew we could participate in politics like this??