Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Fear or fury? The choice is ours.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

I would try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

They want us to be overwhelmed and exhausted. Focus. Resist. Oppose.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Trump should be leading, not lying.

All hail the time of the bunny!

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

“Loving your country does not mean lying about its history.”

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

“Facilitate” is an active verb, not a weasel word.

“Just close your eyes and kiss the girl and go where the tilt-a-whirl takes you.” ~OzarkHillbilly

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Open Thread: Random Slivers From the Ukraine Conversation

Open Thread: Random Slivers From the Ukraine Conversation

by | 111 Comments

This post is in: , ,

I cannot pay focused attention to a(nother) topic so large and worthy, because {waves hands}. But now that commentor Gin & Tonic has given us a Starter Kit (thank you, WaterGirl, for front-paging!), I’ll share the occasional patchwork of interesting links I run across while doing other posts…

to learn about these places or re-consider given that US interventionism since the Gulf War has been at best a mixed bag, at worst a disaster.

You can always make the same claims about American ‘weakness’ contrasted with autocratic ‘strength’;

make the same analogies to the 1930s, Chamberlain, or Carter;

demand the same absurdly aggressively redlines to trigger US intervention;

breezily recommend relentless escalation which you can later disclaim as ‘badly implemented’ when it turns into a disaster;

make the same arguments about any crisis anywhere without knowing anything about Afghanistan, Taiwan, Ukraine, Iran, N Korea, Syria – because they’re all the same, amirite? – because they have no agency at all, because everything is about America, POTUS’ approval rating, and the blob’s status-craving as experts even though it keeps getting Western intervention in the periphery wrong with disastrous consequences.

And should anyone disagree and encourage calm, you can just completely lose your mind and argue that world order itself is at stake! That China & its Russian wingman are seeking

casualties and massacres, R may get expelled from SWIFT & Nord Stream 2 may be ended. All this will make Russia even more dependent on China, which the Chinese will take advantage of mercilessly. It will also drive all the small countries around R toward NATO & the US for help

Putin knows all this which is why he hasn’t invaded yet. Unlike the blob’s mindless worship of Putin’s ‘strength’ and tactical genius – where’s America’s Republican Daddy to protect our stock portf-, er, the American people! – Putin knows Russia is weak. Its GDP smaller than S Korea’s and its economy is extremely corrupt. R’s capacity to fight protracted counterinsurgency while under ever-tightening sanctions is limited. The parallels to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan are pretty obvious.

I don’t have any particular policy advice on this. It’s a thorny issue outside my lane. I lean toward offering Ukraine training and aid of some kind. We certainly should not agree that Putin gets a veto on who can apply to NATO. That’s blackmail by a gangster

My concern rather is to note the lazy, repetitive quality of blob op-ed page analysis of crises in world politics. It’s practically interchangeable, no matter where the conflict is or who the players are. Cp. the Ukraine writing to Afghanistan last summer. It’s so hackneyed, hyperbolic, predictable, & hawkish, u don’t even need to read it anymore…

Reader Interactions

111Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    Republicans really are divided because they want to portray Biden as weak but they also want Putin as an ally against Biden.

  3. 3.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    to learn about these places or re-consider given that US interventionism since the Gulf War has been at best a mixed bag, at worst a disaster.

    “since the Gulf War”? I count W’s misadventure to Iraq as the under-discussed disaster that led to trump, global destabilization and a general decline in US credibility and influence over the last 20 years. We don’t talk about it because, since 2016 especially, W has been rehabilitated into that nice guy who paints curious pictures, and (even more so) most of the Good Villagers of Broderton were all in on it, so really there’s no point in discussing that…. unpleasantness
    (I’m assuming by Gulf War he’s referring to Bush II and Iraq?)

  5. 5.

    ...now I try to be amused

    The US transport aircraft in the photo has World War II-era roundels and D-Day invasion stripes. Is there is a message in that?

  6. 6.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    it’s easy for non-russians to forget how much the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan further undermined public trust in the regime. the memory of that blunder is still on the minds of the leaders, not to mention the older generation on whose support putin relies

    Gods, since invading the Ukraine would be the dumbest choice possible for Russia, it’s likely irresistible for their leadership.

  7. 7.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @The Thin Black Duke:I’m so glad a rational human being is sitting in the White House.

    Yes, just picturing Trump in this, first kissing Putin’s ass and when Putin goes to far Trump making wild threats about nuclear war. That would be really shitty stuff for everyone.

  9. 9.

    trollhattan

    Work has been distinctively busy pushing out server, PC, et al updates the last couple weeks and without saying so I believe they’re trying to “harden” the joint in advance of any forthcoming Russian hackathon (there’s a significant infrastructure system at stake).

  10. 10.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: . We don’t talk about it because, since 2016 especially, W has been rehabilitated into that nice guy who paints curious pictures

    Gods, as bizarre as it sounds Trump made both Darth Cheny and Bolton pictures of calm statesmanship. Just damn things been surreal the last five years.

  11. 11.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Echoing others here, I’m glad Biden is handling this and not Trump. He’d for sure throw Ukraine under the bus and it’s doubtful NATO and the West would have such a united front against Russia if he had been reelected

  12. 12.

    Yarrow

    Zelensky press conference apparently just ended a bit ago.

    Really extraordinary press conference with Ukrainian president Zelensky. International press asking again and again about the threat of imminent invasion. Zelensky saying very clearly, we don't need this panic, be careful about talking up the possibility of an escalation— Gabriel Gatehouse (@ggatehouse) January 28, 2022

  14. 14.

    Baud

    @Yarrow:

    International press asking again and again about the threat of imminent invasion.

    Mr. Zelensky, Mr. Zelensky!…Have you thought of the ratings?

  16. 16.

    JPL

    @Baud: Republican fell in love with Putin during the Obama years, because Putin was a manly man.   The fact that he had lifts, didn’t matter to them.

  17. 17.

    laura

    @The Thin Black Duke: with one hell of a good backup I might add. Just imagine tfg all adderalled up, squeezing Zelensky, refusing but dangling aid, fan boiing Putin, acting like the horrendously abjectly stupidest got on the planet and backed up by the god bother and human coat rack, praying for the end times.

  18. 18.

    gvg

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: No, that isn’t the Gulf War. That is what the Iraq Kuwait war under the first Bush is called.  It went surprisingly well superficially at least. The first Bush was mostly competent and had foreign policy expertise plus a lot of contacts in foreign governments. He actually believed in allies and group action plus planning. He broke off and did not occupy Iraq after driving them out of Kuwait. the hawks were disappointed but history has shown he was right.

    I am not an expert, just someone who watched it on TV and thought it was going to be another disaster like Vietnam…turns out things can go differently if you are actually fighting an invasion and stop before you get stuck occupying another country.

  20. 20.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Yarrow: He is correct, they do not need panic. He’s trying for a “keep calm and carry on” atmosphere. People have their go-bags ready, but they need to function as well.

  21. 21.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Omnes Omnibus:  okay, thinking about it that does make more sense, and my eyes kind of glazed over “mixed bag”, which I guess is a fair assessment of the Clinton era

    My point about the Establishment’s erasure of Bush II and Iraq remains bigly cromulent

  25. 25.

    Gin & Tonic

    Like somebody said a while ago, if Russia stops fighting there is no more war; if Ukraine stops fighting there is no more Ukraine.

  26. 26.

    Mike in NC

    @Baud: Trump stole the slogan “America First” from another Nazi-loving isolationist celebrity. Trump would have disbanded NATO and pulled all forces out of South Korea and Japan.

    Republicans love Putin because being gay/lesbian/trans in Russia will get your head bashed in by riot police.

  27. 27.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    OT, but speaking of GHWB, I watched a video essay on Youtube recently about the Simpsons and it’s decline. At one time, the Simpsons was considered countercultural, mocking the dominant pop culture of the late 80s-early 90s. At the height of Simpsons Mania in the early 90s, Bush in speech said something to the effect of, “We need more American families to be like the Waltons instead of the Simpsons.”

    And I thought to myself after hearing this, “…What a fucking weenie.”

    Also, pretty rich to hear Mr. A Thousand Points of Light talking about family values given the allegations of inappropriate touching that came out about him after his death

  28. 28.

    Another Scott

    Thanks for this, AL.

    Kelly’s tweets are good. I don’t think Seva’s tweet about this being “the first time” that we’ve talked with Russia about European security is accurate – there have been talks about Russia breaking agreements about weapons systems, (and things like OpenSkies), etc., etc., going on for decades (as Blinken noted in one of his recent speeches).

    We (the West and NATO) need to get this right, because we know that Xi is watching carefully with respect to Taiwan, freedom of navigation on the seas, and lots of other things. A stable international order is important, and some principles are (nearly) sacrosanct, but the reality of the changing world has to be recognized – this isn’t the 1950s any more. The big picture matters a lot.

    To be clear – I don’t have any answers. My head tells me that VVP is a monster. My heart tells me we must support Ukraine. But the details matter a lot, and I hope we get them right.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  29. 29.

    Another Scott

    @Yarrow: Relatedly, I was surprised by Mary Louise Kelly’s report from Kyiv yesterday on NPR ATC.

    Just back from meeting Kristina Kvien, top US official on the ground here in Kyiv. We asked about Ukranian troop preparedness & where diplomacy goes next. Also: why is there no US Ambassador to Ukraine? Interview airs tonight @npr @USEmbassyKyiv

    — Mary Louise Kelly (@NPRKelly) January 28, 2022

    And I was reminded of Pompeo trying to insult her intelligence and failing – badly.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  30. 30.

    Mike in NC

    @Yarrow: Our lazy media badly misses Trump’s constant mood of chaos and instability. War and inflation and natural disaster are their substitutes.

  31. 31.

    trollhattan

    O/T but speaking of pestilence, the variant has a variant. Eff me.

    The coronavirus pandemic is in another bout of deja vu, as the World Health Organization warned people this week that a subvariant of omicron is spreading across the world. Dubbed BA.2, the subvariant is not a “variant of concern,” the WHO said, but has been traveling in Denmark, India and the United Kingdom. And now it’s in California. Santa Clara County health officials identified two cases of the subvariant, also known as “stealth omicron,” this week. There are at least 11 confirmed cases of BA.2 in California. It has also been detected in more than 40 countries, including Sweden, Singapore and the Philippines. It’s also in New Mexico, Texas and Washington, according to media reports. Health officials are still investigating the transmissibility and severity of the virus, which is referred to as “stealth omicron,” the global health organization reported last week.

    BA.2, which is rising in countries such as Denmark, India and the U.K., is a mutation of the omicron variant, according to the WHO. “Every time that there’s transmission of the virus, that results in viral replication,” said Dr. Dean Blumberg, professor and chief of pediatric infectious disease at UC Davis Health. “It’s an opportunity for new mutations to occur.” There are up to 32 mutations of the omicron COVID-19 variant, some of which have higher transmissability.

    Blumberg said it’s difficult to know, but there are concerns that it will spread very quickly. He cited the exponential growth in cases in Denmark, Israel and other countries where BA.2 is prevalent. While the original omicron COVID variant accounts for 98% of global coronavirus cases, Reuters reported that BA.2 has become the most dominant viral strain in Denmark since the second week of January. “The early data from Denmark suggests that it’s about 50% more transmissible than the original omicron strain,” Blumberg said.

    https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article257793388.html#storylink=cpy

    Just great, the matryoshka of viruses.

  32. 32.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Another Scott:

    Just back from meeting Kristina Kvien, top US official on the ground here in Kyiv

    “Top official” is still a chargé d’affaires and not an actual Ambassador, which is a fucking embarrassment, and does not escape attention in Kyiv.

    Mary Louise Kelly is out of her depth, too

    ETA: An American talking to an American. That’s part of what’s wrong with this coverage. There is a surfeit of English-speaking Ukrainian journalists to call on, and here’s same-old same-old.

  35. 35.

    kindness

    That the right have turned Republican politics into a sporting match.  Time and time again Republicans are rooting for the Washington Generals while at the same time trying to deny that the Harlem Globetrotters have any agency, any ability to keep their beloved team from winning it all.

    The MSM helps them every step of the way sadly.  Remember when there were lawyer jokes about getting rid of them all?  Me thinks there is a new profession in town that deserves such treatment.

  37. 37.

    terry chay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: You are mixing the Guld War (1990) with the War in Iraq (2002). So this person is including Somalia, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Iraq as misadventures. My thinking is stuff before it could be considered “misadventures” also but they need to be taken within the scope of the Cold War while every US military action since was determined from the lens of the Gulf War, hence that demarcation.

  39. 39.

    Hoodie

    @Another Scott: The one difference between this and the Cold War is that this is not an ideological struggle between capitalism and communism.  Putin  really doesn’t want to re-establish the USSR, he wants to resurrect the old Russian Empire based on some contrived notion of cultural identity, which the USSR used to hide behind communist ideology.  The most important thing is  is not to let ethnic or cultural identities be used to define interactions between nation states because that will enable Xi and others to use that kind of rhetoric  to expand their power.  That doesn’t mean that we can’t negotiate on issues such as NATO’s role in eastern Europe.

  41. 41.

    Leto

    @Gin & Tonic:  I know NPR is shit upon here quite a bit, but they’ve had multiple interviews with sitting Ukrainian ministers as well as previous officials. This past week we had to travel to Georgia and back, and I was able to listen to a lot of Ukrainian officials speak about the situation. Fairly informative overall.

  43. 43.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Another Scott:

    According to this OpEd from the WaPo, the Biden admin hasn’t even nominated anyone yet:

    In the case of Ukraine, however, the Senate is not to blame — the White House bears full responsibility. The State Department has not sought agreement from the Ukrainian government, the initial step in securing the host country’s assent to the intended nominee. Among the names apparently being considered by the White House is a career Foreign Service officer who is currently an ambassador elsewhere. That means the person already has been vetted and approved by the Senate for the person’s current posting and would likely gain quick approval if ever nominated for the Kyiv position. The White House delay in settling on a nominee is simply inexcusable at this point in the administration.

    It was from a few weeks ago, so I don’t know if anything changed recently. I was able to find it in a quick Google search

  44. 44.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @terry chay: Right. I guess in my mind the Iraq War (and its consequences) was and is such an on-going infection in domestic and international politics, and one that is is just kind of hand-waved away as a thing that just kind of happened by so many people in influential positions, is a similar line of demarcation for me.

  45. 45.

    Yarrow

    @trollhattan:  The only thing new here is that BA.2 has been found in the US. I posted about BA.2 here maybe two weeks ago? Three? It’s attention grabbing but not particularly more of a concern than BA.1. Latest data suggests that vaccine escape may be even less with BA.2.

    The worrying thing is that the effectiveness of boosters appears to decline significantly over time. Data from Israel, which started boosters first, is somewhat concerning in older populations. We’re several more weeks on so BA.2 could make more people sicker as they’re further from their booster.

  48. 48.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Another Scott: there was a story last week about the Ambassador to Greece (I think it was, edit), a Dem donor with a problematic history and a lot of ambition, and in the fourth or fifth paragraph they got to the meat of the problem: The little-discussed yet very powerful Bob Menendez, the Joe Manchin of the Democratic FP machinery

  49. 49.

    Yarrow

    Interesting and related:

    Extraordinary intervention: US officials express their “dismay and frustration” at the continued refusal of a Conservative government awash with Russian cash to shut down the London laudromat, undermining the effectiveness of sanctions.https://t.co/HcFWa1sSyY
    — Simon Nixon (@Simon_Nixon) January 28, 2022

    They might want to have a look at the Republican party as well.

  52. 52.

    trollhattan

    @Yarrow:

    It looks to offer a path to the Sarah Palins of our great land to contract covid seven times. So there’s that.

    I had COVID-19 already. Am I more immune to BA.2?

    Not likely. Blumberg said that there are reports of people getting infected with BA.2 about a month after getting BA.1, the original omicron variant. This suggests that the subvariant can evade previous immunity and that prior infection will not protect people from getting it, he said. “With other strains, we know that reinfection is rare within 90 days of infection,” he said. “But it appears that that may not be true with B.A 2. The reinfection may occur earlier than that 90-day period.”

    OTOH I’m cautiously optimistic our winter surge has peaked on January 10 and continues to decline, but is still well above previous maximum infection count and rate values. The county reports close to half a million have received boosters, but we’re still held back by a worse-than state average of 63% fully vaccinated, the moran factor.

  54. 54.

    Yarrow

    @trollhattan:  Yes, Omicron immunity seems to wane quickly. Lots of reports of reinfection in South Africa, which was among the first countries to have it. The reinfection might be BA.2. I haven’t heard confirmation one way or the other.

  57. 57.

    Yarrow

    @The Thin Black Duke:  I actually saw a piece about this guy. His family claims that he isn’t antivax, he just sees the possible side effects show it can have an impact on his heart and he’s afraid it will kill him. His wife or mom or someone held up a list of possible side effects from Mayo and showed where it said “myocarditis.” She said something like, “if they can guarantee it won’t affect his heart he’ll get it.” Sure, Jan.

  59. 59.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Yarrow: I wonder how many “guarantees” his doctors can offer about a heart transplant

    it’s an extreme version of the chuckleheads who say they won’t take your experimental big Pharma vaccine, especially since they got them there anticolonial monobodies they’ve done careful and thorough research on

    (autocorrect capitalizes Pharma, I’m surprised it doesn’t throw in a Big at this point)

  60. 60.

    Yarrow

    @Baud:  I thought the same thing. All I know is this woman who is related to the guy needing the heart transplant held up something from Mayo and pointed to it and said myocarditis was a possible side effect. I don’t think the reporter challenged her about the age of people who had that side effect.

  62. 62.

    Brachiator

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    In the case of Ukraine, however, the Senate is not to blame — the White House bears full responsibility.

    Yawn. I have no idea what “blame” or “responsibility” is supposed to mean.

    It is stupid to suggest that Putin would behave better if only Biden had got a nominee confirmed.

  63. 63.

    Baud

    @Yarrow:

    Ok thanks.  Not that I care.  Zero reason for any doctor to offer any guarantees about anything to this guy.

    ETA: His body, his choice.

  64. 64.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    when will I learn? as intriguing as a twitter trend pairing Bette Midler with Jim “Sheriff Beaufort Teeee!” Justice might be, sometimes it’s better not to know

    Kleo @appalachiabelle 16h

    During his SOTS address tonight, WV Gov. Jim Justice brought his dog, Babydog, to the podium and pointed her rear end to the camera, saying “Babydog tells Bette Midler and all those out there kiss her hiney.” Gov. Justice is referencing Bette’s tweet about West Virginians.

    I guess he’s the modern LBJ so many have been searching for….

  65. 65.

    Roger Moore

    @Yarrow:

    This seems like a distinction without a difference.  His doctors are telling him he needs to get vaccinated, and he’s ignoring their advice.  It doesn’t speak well to his likelihood of complying with rules regarding the transplant, which is something the doctors are correctly worried about.

  67. 67.

    Layer8Problem

    @JPL:  Republican[s] fell in love with Putin during the Obama years, because Putin was a manly man. The fact that he had lifts, didn’t matter to them.

    “It’s not a height thing.  Ya see, heels lifts firm up the calf and give the whole leg that trés, trés sexy silhouette and gives me that zing up my thigh, if you know what I mean.  Putin and Trump, oooh baby . . .”

  69. 69.

    Starboard Tack

    Well, shit. On CovidActNow, my way blue county has gone from high risk to extremely high risk. Only 36% boosted. Omicron don’t care.

  73. 73.

    Jager

    @JPL:

    No, It was the 8 goals the KLH All-Stars let him score in that hockey exhibition…now that’s some manly shit.

  76. 76.

    Miss Bianca

    @Roger Moore: Yeah, so let me see if I’ve got this straight…you trust Big Medicine to replace your faulty heart, but you don’t trust them when they say you need to get a vaccine?

    That’s what we call a “Darwin’s Choice”, right there.

  78. 78.

    Jager

    @trollhattan:

    Does Little Vlad have an illegal curve on his “blade”. Wayne Gretsky couldn’t score 8 goals against the KLH All-Stars if they actually tried.

  80. 80.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Hoodie:

    The one difference between this and the Cold War is that this is not an ideological struggle between capitalism and communism.  Putin  really doesn’t want to re-establish the USSR, he wants to resurrect the old Russian Empire based on some contrived notion of cultural identity, which the USSR used to hide behind communist ideology.

    It all makes me think that a lot of the old Cold War ideological struggle was a delusion–it was driven by nationalist/tribal emotions and paranoia all along, disguised in a costume of political-economic ideology. Take away Communism and most of what drove it is still there.

    The one exception, I suppose, is that if official Communism is no longer keeping corporations from taking a cut of the economy, they’re less interested in the outcome. But modern Chinese-style Communism even seems to provide a space for them.

    The most important thing is  is not to let ethnic or cultural identities be used to define interactions between nation states because that will enable Xi and others to use that kind of rhetoric  to expand their power.

    And our own right wing is intent on turning the United States into an ethnically/culturally defined state.

  81. 81.

    Subsole

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    “I want nothing.

    I want nothing.

    I want no quid pro quo.

    Tell Zelensky to do the right thing…”

    Anyone remember THAT little chestnut from The Smiths?

     

    @JPL: The fact Russia is, as a country, bigoted enough to curdle your marrow probably helped, too. They really, REALLY want to turn us into Russia – just with Evangelicals instead of Orthodox.

  82. 82.

    Nettoyeur

    @Yarrow: So she’d rather take chance with the contagious and very deadly COVID over the rare and non contagious myocarditis side effect.

  83. 83.

    Subsole

     

     

    @Mike in NC: The press – or rather, individuals in the press – never got rich and famous off a prosperous America.

    Never forget, watching us writhe in agony under Trump was very, very good times for them. Financially if not (as I also suspect) personally and ideologically. It’s why they are trying soooooo hard to Jimmy Carter PJB.

  85. 85.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Subsole: So many of them made those naughty little tweets about how “you” had to face up to the fact that “you”, meaning they, would miss the Trump show when he was gone.

  86. 86.

    Soprano2

    Kind of OT, but did anyone hear this interview with China’s ambassador to the U.S. this morning on Morning Edition? It was pretty stunning, he talked about how they put Uyghurs in camps because they “might” have terrorist thoughts “in the future”, so in his mind they’re being trained not to be terrorists. Sounds like something Republicans here might like to do with certain people. To me a lot of what he said was horrifying and creepy, and also full of what we know are lies. “All the Uyghurs in prison are terrorists” was one lie he told.

  87. 87.

    Soprano2

    @Subsole: The fact Russia is, as a country, bigoted enough to curdle your marrow probably helped, too. They really, REALLY want to turn us into Russia – just with Evangelicals instead of Orthodox.

    I’m convinced this is the major reason Republicans have fallen in love with Russia – it’s what they would like to turn the U.S. into, where white people rule, minorities, gays and Muslims are brutally repressed, women know their place, and the Christian church is part of the government. They also have a performative elective government, which is something else Republicans seem to have decided they’d like to have.

  88. 88.

    Soprano2

    @Matt McIrvin: There is not one thing I miss about TFG. I think about how he would dominate the press coverage of everything if he were still on Twitter, and give thanks every day to Jack that he kicked TFG off permanently.

  89. 89.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Soprano2: They really like Putin’s macho strongman posturing too. The line during the Obama years was that Putin, unlike Obama, was “a STRONG leader who loves his country.” The differences from the Soviet era are that Russia no longer officially disdains religion or pretends to be anti-racist.

  91. 91.

    Subsole

    @Soprano2: Conservatism is at heart the childishly idiotic hope that you can keep all the cool stuff from the Enlightenment, but crop it to fit a world that ends at the local baron’s manor fence.

    They want the blessings of the big world, but only so they can hoard them in the small, backwards, mentally, spiritually and physically impoverished world over which they reign.

  92. 92.

    Soprano2

    @Matt McIrvin: They mistake crazy tough talk for actual toughness. The truth is that TFG didn’t do anything about this situation for 4 years, and wouldn’t have any choices for what to do that Biden doesn’t have, but he would issue some tough crazy talk and all the Republicans would swoon over how “tough” he was.

  93. 93.

    Captain C

    @Subsole:

    Conservatism is at heart the childishly idiotic hope that you can keep all the cool stuff from the Enlightenment, but crop it to fit a world that ends at the local baron’s manor fence.

    I am so stealing this.

  94. 94.

    Cermet

    While putin is a fascist pig, his basic point is correct – NATO expansion to Russia’s Southern flank is something that would really threaten Russia – and make no mistake, NATO’s sole reason to exist is to defend against Russia (and NATO’s forces are vastly superior to anything Russia can field.) That is, Russia is NATO’s enemy. If we had not lied about expanding into the Baltics our verbal promise might mean something but under Bush we did that and Russia isn’t exactly happy NATO countries are on its borders. Now, with thousands of ICBM’s Russia is our enemy but we shouldn’t threaten them with NATO expansion any further – sorry Ukraine but I care far more about the USA – keeping Russia semi-friendly – and also about Western Europe. Wasn’t thrilled Poland was included but the Baltics should not have been. Giving Russia a written guarantee makes sense but in turn, Russia must demilitarize their border with the Ukraine.

    That all said, I really doubt Russia wants a shooting war and massive economic sanctions – hope I’m not wrong but then, its the Ukraine and that is not of strategic importance to us or even Europe in reality.

  98. 98.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Cermet: Did the West pursue NATO expansion or did those countries come running to the West because they wanted protection from Russia? Or some of both? Outcome is the same, I guess.

  100. 100.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Cermet: Why should Estonia, Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, etc. not have the right to decide for themselves which economic or military alliances they should join?

  101. 101.

    ljdramone

    @…now I try to be amused:

    The US transport aircraft in the photo has World War II-era roundels and D-Day invasion stripes. Is there is a message in that?

    Maybe?  Maybe not?

    The photo shows a C-130 unloading US Air Force personnel at an airbase in Estonia on January 24th.
    This article from Stars and Stripes says some C-130Js based at Ramstein AFB in Germany were painted with WWII-style insignia and invasion stripes in 2019 to commemorate the 75th anniversary of D-Day.

  102. 102.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Soprano2: Trump would rattle the saber for a while, freak everyone out, get back in the room with the dictator and come out gushing about how they were best friends again and how fantastically tough and macho that guy is.

  103. 103.

    Chris

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It all makes me think that a lot of the old Cold War ideological struggle was a delusion–it was driven by nationalist/tribal emotions and paranoia all along, disguised in a costume of political-economic ideology. Take away Communism and most of what drove it is still there.

    It was both.  Lots of people were sincerely promoting the ideology they viewed as the best, and to the extent that progress was made in both America and Russia over these years, it was in no small part because of people like that.  On the other hand, there were also a lot of people on both sides who were basically straight-up fascists, who but for an accident of birth would have been happily peddled that blood-and-soil crap for the Führer.  And far too many idealists on both sides didn’t realize or ignored the fact that that was happening.

    One thing that tends to get forgotten is how much the initial Cold War (the containment doctrine, the Marshall Plan, NATO) was a liberal project – it was mostly done under Truman, by a bunch of veterans of the FDR years, with buy-in from Republican moderates like Eisenhower to provide bipartisan cover, and a lot of it was basically “what we wish we’d been able to do in the 1930s when fascism was on the rise, if only Congress hadn’t blocked all of it.”  The right wing was initially leery of it, got completely on board with it in the early 1950s when McCarthy showed them how to use it, and then tried to make it more and more “their” thing as the conflict went on.

  107. 107.

    Searcher

    Dumb question, seriously asked — do other countries need us to train them?

    Does the US have a lot of secret training sauce that other countries haven’t already picked through?  Can dropping a few consultants in to give a three week course on militarying make a significant difference in a country like Ukraine?

    Or does it all come down to money, manpower and equipment, and the whole training schtick is just how we feel good about ourselves for helping?

  108. 108.

    Another Scott

    @Searcher: According to recent Tweeter threads, Ukraine’s armed forces went from something like 8,500 in 2014 to something like 150,000 today.  They’re getting lots of western weapons in a short amount of time.  They need to be trained in using those weapons, and they need to be trained on how to effectively organize, command, control, sustain, etc., such a vastly larger force.

    Directing large groups of humans is a complicated endeavor.  Moreso when lives and treasure and national identity are on the line.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  109. 109.

    J R in WV

    Republicans in disarray!
    Not knowing whether to support the United States or Russia https://t.co/xhKV7WI1mI

    — Cheryl Rofer (@CherylRofer) January 27, 2022

    Miss you here Cheryl… I try to follow you at LGM, but that moves too fast for me to be sure to catch you every time you post. Take care!!  now I’ll read the whole thread. been busy today.

  110. 110.

    J R in WV

    @The Thin Black Duke: ​
     

    This is why I don’t have any sympathy for the unvaccinated idiot in a Boston hospital who was denied a heart transplant.

    So he’s willing to allow doctors to cut his heart out, but not willing to take a shot those same doctors require in order to operate… brilliant dude, just brilliant.

  111. 111.

    J R in WV

    @Soprano2: ​
     

    I’m convinced this is the major reason Republicans have fallen in love with Russia – it’s what they would like to turn the U.S. into, where white people rule, minorities, gays and Muslims are brutally repressed, women know their place, and the Christian church is part of runs the government.

    Fixed that for you. Not part of the government, runs the government.

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