Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

Republicans can’t even be trusted with their own money.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

People are complicated. Love is not.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

“And when the Committee says to “report your income,” that could mean anything!

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

“Squeaker” McCarthy

Joe Lieberman disappointingly reemerged to remind us that he’s still alive.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Thanks for reminding me that Van Jones needs to be slapped.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

We’ll be taking my thoughts and prayers to the ballot box.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Monday Evening Open Thread: Giving Their Voters What They Asked For

Monday Evening Open Thread: Giving Their Voters What They Asked For

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Is there an honest chance of taking this loon down?

And, of course {sigh}, our Democratic disgrace:

Reader Interactions

78Comments

  2. 2.

    SiubhanDuinne

    People like Johnson and Manchin make me seethe with rage. I just can’t with them any more.

  3. 3.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Brung up from below:

    Have some good news, with the caveat that from all appearances it is fair to assumer Machin’s brain is full of dope-addled squirrels

    Anthony Adragna @AnthonyAdragna
    There is simply no evidence of forthcoming drama from Manchin on SCOTUS. Via pool, on the name shortlist: “I think they were all excellent names, I really do, with an awful lot of qualifications. It’s time has come.”

    Again, via pool, did Biden politicize process by promising to nominate a Black woman? Manchin: “I don’t look at it as being politicized. I look at it for being basically just a balance that needs to be done to represent who we are as a nation.”

    12:40 PM · Jan 31, 2022·TweetDeck

    Seems like the reporter is, quite reasonably, sounding him out as to whether he’s going to take the bait
    his buddy Collins tossed out to him (according to a theory I saw proposed here, or on twitter?, which seems plausible to me)

  4. 4.

    Baud

    I actually think Manchin could have gotten more from ActBlue donations if he had played the hero instead of the villain.

  5. 5.

    MisterDancer

    @Baud: Damn straight! We would be shipping bricks of 100 dollar bills to his offices, by the truckload, if he’d gotten voting rights in.

  6. 6.

    Another Scott

    @Baud: Yup.  Motivated people donate.  TheOatmeal raised millions to buy one of Nikola Tesla’s famous sites.

    And, in a way, a Senator raising $4.8M in a year is kinda pathetic.  Ossoff and Warnock raised something like $500M…

    But S&M act like they’re not very bright sometimes… :-\

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  11. 11.

    JMG

    I don’t think Manchin is doing anything for campaign donations at all. He is sincerely who he is, a rich small business guy, who considers himself a loyal Democrat (hence his Court comments) but also holds to the economic tenets of the most reactionary section of capital there is. The image of the small businessman as the owner of the local hardware store (extinct) or mom and pop restaurant (going extinct) is pervasive in our culture because its reality of the owner of the largest Ford (or Kia, etc) dealership in a 100 miles or of 17 Wendy’s franchises doesn’t make for very good TV ads.

  12. 12.

    PeakVT

    Unless that big increase in donations to Manchin includes a lot of small ones from depolorables (I can’t get by the paywall to find out) the dollar amount is meaningless. He’s alienating the diminishing number of Dems remaining in WV, so he will have to rely even more on Repuke ticket splitters, which so far is not documented. An increase in business support won’t push him over the finish line, especially if Trumpolini is on the ballot again.

  14. 14.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @PeakVT: there’s a decent chance that Manchin will either not run again or lose so he should be doing some profile in courage stuff except his profile in courage is just more getting more $$ from and for rich folks. I figure we should be able to make it up from PA, Wisconsin, Florida, Texas or NC by then. I keep on hoping for a surprise from Mo, Ohio, Iowa or the Plains.

  15. 15.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    People like Johnson and Manchin make me seethe with rage. I just can’t with them any more.

    I just can’t with the people who have installed them in positions of power they not only don’t deserve but abuse.

  17. 17.

    randy khan

    I see that the athlete thing has taken the next leap of implausibility. The path is, as always, instructive:

    *Some random non-U.S. publication posts a list of people who it says died after vaccination, supposedly all athletes. The list has 108 names and includes coaches, some people vaguely related to pro sports who aren’t athletes, and some people who appear to have nothing to do with sports, plus people who weren’t active athletes. No evidence that there’s any relationship to vaccination; in fact, some of the people died in accidents.

    *John Stockton says 150 pro athletes have died after vaccination. No mention of where they died.

    *Ron Johnson says that athletes are dropping dead on the field.

    Next it will be that whole NFL teams were decimated.

  18. 18.

    Ken

    @randy khan: Next it will be that whole NFL teams were decimated.

    It would explain some of the playoff games.

    Bah-DUM-dum. Thank you, try the veal, and remember to tip your waitress.

  22. 22.

    mrmoshpotato

    Sen. Ron Johnson asked about reducing child care costs: “Well, people decide to have families and become parents. That’s something they need to consider when they make that choice. I’ve never really felt it was society’s responsibility to take care of other people’s children.”

    Do any of Ron’s three children have children themselves?

    How much of a shitty grandpa is this asshole?

  23. 23.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @phdesmond: It sounds as though she has some interesting projects underway. I’ll miss her nightly show, but I’m looking forward to the new stuff. For all her (sometimes annoying) mannerisms, I’ve been a Rachel fan since the old, lamented Air America days.

  24. 24.

    James E Powell

    We’ve all got crazy friends, right? I’ve got one who is refusing to be vaccinated not because of loyalty to Trump – she hates Trump – but because she reads the internet & believes what she reads. She’s got an Israeli study that says you get more immunity from having covid than from vaccines. Is that true? I thought the CDC said the opposite.

  27. 27.

    Grumpy Old Railroader

    OT – I just retrieved my mail and my Joe Biden Covid Test Kits arrived. They have written instructions but also you can scan the QR code on the instructions that lets you download their app iHealthTest . The app has step by step videos so makes the whole process easy peasy. And . . . . . the results are in. All clear. And since I’m the one who goes out into the world for our groceries, my beautiful young bride, Mrs Grumpy won’t have to take the test

  28. 28.

    danielx

    @James E Powell:

    Small samples, but I know a couple of people who have had it twice, including one who was vaccinated but not boosted. The other guy? He ended up in the hospital. with a lot worse case than he had the first time.

  30. 30.

    RaflW

    Buried lede: Ron Johnson is at the very least pro-contraception. Perilously close to pro-reproductive choice, even.

  31. 31.

    Matt McIrvin

    @James E Powell: Oh, yeah, it’s that one Israeli study that gets touted by every antivaxxer in the world. It’s inconsistent with pretty much everything else, and if I recall correctly, they admitted that their sample of COVID infections might have been biased toward more severe cases.

    But even if getting COVID while unvaccinated gave you better immunity than getting vaccinated, the fact would remain that you got COVID while unvaccinated and it probably will do more damage that way.

  32. 32.

    Brachiator

    @James E Powell:

    She’s got an Israeli study that says you get more immunity from having covid than from vaccines.

    Not really. The point of a vaccine is to provide some protection against a disease without killing you.

    So, from one analysis of the Israeli study:

    The study demonstrates the power of the human immune system, but infectious disease experts emphasized that this vaccine and others for COVID-19 nonetheless remain highly protective against severe disease and death. And they caution that intentional infection among unvaccinated people would be extremely risky.“What we don’t want people to say is: ‘All right, I should go out and get infected, I should have an infection party,’” says Michel Nussenzweig, an immunologist at Rockefeller University who researches the immune response to SARS-CoV-2 and was not involved in the study. “Because somebody could die.”

  33. 33.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Is there an honest chance of taking this loon down?

    Yes, of course there is. There a shitload of people working toward that goal every day.

  34. 34.

    Ohio Mom

    @James E Powell: Israel is the place where they are giving boosters to people who have already gotten boosters — If you’re over 60, you can get a fourth shot. So it does not sound like they are waiting around for everyone to get “natural” immunity.

    I suppose there could possibly be one study that suggests people who’ve had Covid acquire stronger immunity than people who have had one shot? Two? Whatever, but certainly the preponderance of studies so far show that the vaccines successfully prevent hospitalizations and death.

    ETA: I see that some other commentators who are familiar with this study got here first.

  36. 36.

    RaflW

    In 2021 my partners brother-in-law had Covid. Spent five fairly scary days in the hospital (no vent, but steroids and an O2 tube under his nose).

    He got vaxed (Pz X2) when eligible but not (yet??) boosted. Probably got omicron a couple weeks ago. Daughter tested pos, the whole household was sick at the same time. Missed some work, felt kinda crappy. But that was it.

    Because of the elapsed time, my very unscientific opinion is that the fall ‘20 infection probably had little beneficial immune effect, his shots were ~6–8 months old (?) but ‘natural’ immunity was 14 months ago.

  37. 37.

    phdesmond

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    a new 7-episode podcast sounds interesting enough, but to have the first one made into a mooovie…

    how many movies based on podcasts have we seen?

  38. 38.

    Brachiator

    Sigh. Speaking of vaccine stupidity, this is happening in the UK, but I can see it spreading.

    Some people are willing to go backwards with respect to public health. From BBC News.

    More than one in 10 school entry-age children in England are at risk of measles because they have not had their vaccine shots, data reveals.
    Coverage for the two doses of MMR that helps protect five-year-olds against the serious illnesses of measles, mumps and rubella is currently at 85.5%.
    That’s the lowest for a decade, and well below the 95% target recommended to stop a resurgence of measles.
    Measles is highly contagious, more than Covid, and can cause serious illness. 
    Nine in every 10 people can catch it if they are unjabbed and exposed.

     

  39. 39.

    RaflW

    @Brachiator: The apparent human drive (by some) to have moar suffering, when it is easily and cheaply avoided. Baffling. Frustrating. And why some other people (thank goddess) want to go into public health careers.

  40. 40.

    Grumpy Old Railroader

    @RaflW: Sounds familiar. Our son #1, age 50, got Dose 1 and 3 days later was down with Covid. (I suspect he had covid when he got dose 1). Should have gone to hospital but finally pulled out of it after a rough 3 weeks. He then got Dose 2 but no booster and caught Omicron last week. Bad for a couple of days but back to work now. He shoulda listened to his Momma but nooo . . . . kept putting it off. He is a vax believer now

  41. 41.

    gwangung

    @danielx: I think it’s not understood that immunity to coronaviruses in general wears off in time. Which means it’s certainly natural that you can get Covid more than once.

     

    Sigh.

  42. 42.

    Kay

    @Brachiator:

    They’ve been tracking it for a while. I was hoping it was a “lag” after the first wave brought on by people just avoiding non-essential trips for health care, but I also think antivaxx will spread to all vaccines. I don’t know why it wouldn’t.

  45. 45.

    Bill Arnold

    @James E Powell:

    She’s got an Israeli study that says you get more immunity from having covid than from vaccines. Is that true? I thought the CDC said the opposite.

    It is true; there is such an Israeli study. There are other studies that find the inverse, and Omicron messed up all these results anyway.
    It appears to still be a preprint. It was a retrospective observational study, that mined the database of a large Israeli HMO (Maccabi Healthcare Services (MHS)). The comments (it being medXriv with a comment section) are wild, and almost entirely political, which is usually a hint.
    Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections (Sivan Gazit et al, Aug 25, 2021, medRxiv (preprint))

    It’s mixed. Saying that a natural infection of something that infects endothelial cells in many organs provides better immunity might well be true vs a particular SARS-CoV-2 variant, though this study is far from definitive due to its design, but the argument elides the downsides of a natural infection that turns a bunch of cells in a bunch of organs into little whole-virus factories and the attendant immune reactions, some of which may be bad and lifelong. And it ignores that with evolution, new immune-evasive variants will hit (maybe yearly) and perhaps cause new organ damage.

  46. 46.

    Leto

    @phdesmond: The HBO series, I’ll Be Gone in the Dark, is essentially from a podcast. Michelle McNamara listened to those, the true crime stories, and that’s what started her involvement in the case. Which then led to the book, and finally to the HBO series. That one is a bit more roundabout though.

  47. 47.

    different-church-lady

    As long as Ron Johnson can ensure no black families in Wisconsin have sparrows or curtain rods he’s a lock for reelection.

  51. 51.

    phdesmond

    @Leto:

    aha?  didn’t know that.  wow!

    okay, first it’s not.

    as to the graduated podcast, i’d watch the movie!  loved the original.

  54. 54.

    catclub

    @Brachiator: Measles is highly contagious, more than Covid, and can cause serious illness. 

    you’re not kidding. vaccination rates need to be about 96%  to get herd immunity for those who cannot take a vaccination. I read that R_o is about 12 for unvaccinated populations.

  56. 56.

    Mousebumples

    @Brachiator: And contracting measles can cause your immune system to forget other immunities you had developed.

    I’m not saying that Mumps or Rubella is better… But they’re not the Measles at least?

  61. 61.

    laura

    @Leto: It hit spouse in his mansense and just gutted him. Then we learned one in our social web was an early target of the EARs. A well done and hard worked cold case that generated the LEO attention it deserved. In a sea of unsolved cases of violence towards women. Would that a Spotify would give one million dollars to 100 podcasters to look deep into the untold stories all around us. Or a 100 million to a dude researching us back to the dark ages.

  62. 62.

    Steeplejack

    @Mousebumples, @Omnes Omnibus:

    ✊ My pleasure. Just spent some time today setting up my Domesday Book financial spreadsheet for this year, so I was feeling a bit organized and squared away. And of course it’s a worthy cause. Don’t need to worry about my rep, Don Beyer.

  64. 64.

    Leto

    @laura: Oh man, that’s a story. We enjoyed the series, but it was also disturbing for both of us. Multi-generational trauma that affected so many lives. Agree about the money for cold cases.

  65. 65.

    James E Powell

    @Brachiator:

    Thanks to everyone for your helpful replies. I put together a response, but I’m thinking the effort my be wasted. Some people just cannot deal with reality.

  66. 66.

    Suzanne

    “Well, people decide to have families and become parents. That’s something they need to consider when they make that choice. I’ve never really felt it was society’s responsibility to take care of other people’s children.”

    Obviously, RonJohn hasn’t gotten the memo that the social conservative right is freaking out that (white) Americans aren’t having enough babies. They say shit like this, and POOF! People decide that there is indeed too much risk and elect not to have them.

  67. 67.

    Dog Dawg Damn

    @Baud: this.  If he had raised money off of being the deciding vote on signature legislation after signature legislation, he’s be rolling in it from small donors.

  68. 68.

    Ohio Mom

    @James E Powell: My advice is to start off with something empathetic and vaguely in agreement, like, “It’s sure been fascinating watching the science about Covid evolve.”

    Really, evaluating a medical study is above most of our capabilities. You need extensive background knowledge about methods and study design, stats, and human biology. And if you know all that, you know that one study by itself is nothing.

    Good luck!

  69. 69.

    danielx

    Really, evaluating a medical study is above most of our capabilities. You need extensive background knowledge about methods and study design, stats, and human biology. And if you know all that, you know that one study by itself is nothing.

    Truth.

    But most people do not realize how much study is required just to be able to evaluate a study. Years of postgrad work at a minimum, with probably a decade to develop expertise. Part of which is learning how much one has left to learn.

    People want absolute answers, and no vaccine is 100% safe and effective.Then with all the horseshit about 150 pro athletes dying of vaccine reactions and suchlike, plus groups like native American and Black communities with valid historical reasons to distrust government health initiatives, well, here we all are. A lot of people will reject whatever evidence of vaccine safety and effectiveness is shown to them, scientific or otherwise.

    I have to admit the power of denial is stronger than I could have imagined at the outset of this whole deal. When I read about people who deny they have Covid while they are dying of it, people who assault physicians who refuse to prescribe Ivermectin, people who would rather die than get vaccinated so they can receive a transplant – I have to admit a lot of people are stupider than I could have ever believed and I was pretty damn cynical before the pandemic started.

  70. 70.

    Martin

    @phdesmond: Maddow negotiated in her contract with MSNBC to phase out the daily show in favor of something closer to weekly, and to pursue these other projects. I think this is the first real result of that new contract.

    That said, Maddow ignoring the makeup sent to her house made me smile. She should wear her glasses as well.

  71. 71.

    Ruckus

    @danielx:

    Sorry, after the past few years I’d believe almost anything from conservatives, as long as it is completely fucking stupid, it is as harmful to themselves as to anyone else and it makes no logical or scientific sense, has no basis in truth or reality. Because that is seemingly how they measure all of their demands.

  73. 73.

    Gretchen

    Boston daughter has been looking for daycare for her baby due in May.  Cost for the sort of place you wouldn’t be afraid to leave an infant is $1800-$2400 a month.

  74. 74.

    Ruckus

    @Brachiator:

    It can cause serious illness. I had encephalitis caused by the measles and have lived another 65 yrs. However. A few things have changed. Population density. Makes avoiding contact a bit more difficult. Masks that actually work – if worn. Very rapid production of very effective vaccines. Populations that seem to have either forgotten or never had a fucking clue about vaccines and deadly diseases. A political party that only gives a fuck about money and how to easily make a lot of it if you don’t give a fuck about anyone else. A disease that is seemingly rather more destructive than measles – everyone I went to school with had the measles, no one in school died. So all in all I’d say that Covid is a worse disease and most people who get it will be sicker to far sicker and many will die. Unfuckingneedlessly.

  76. 76.

    matt

    @randy khan: The other day I got vaccinated – they were stacking up the bodies like cordwood out back. I just survived because of my training regimen and superior diet.

  78. 78.

    Kay

    This is good, on the radical Right in New Hampshire, which may help Democrats:

    One muggy June day in the New Hampshire House of Representatives, Bill Marsh, a Republican from the picturesque lake town of Wolfeboro, rose to buck his party. The chamber, newly under Republican control thanks to an alliance between conservatives and libertarian activists, was considering an amendment that would ban mandatory vaccinations amid a global pandemic—all mandatory vaccinations, covering diseases from COVID-19 to mumps to hepatitis. Marsh, a retired ophthalmologist who has pushed fellow Republicans to take pandemic precautions more seriously, framed his objection as pro-business. He asked, “Why would we interfere with private businesses’ right to protect themselves, their employees, and their patrons?”

    Retribution for the speech was swift and decisive—Marsh’s speech, that is. Within days, Marsh resigned from his committee, Health, Human Services and Elderly Affairs, after party leadership informed him that he would be removed as vice chairman. Later that summer, Roy was appointed vice chairman of the influential Criminal Justice and Public Safety Committee, replacing another wayward conservative who had disobeyed the party’s radical
    new leadership.

    Roy, the guy they rewarded, was the author of the anti-vaxx amendment.

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