Midnight in Washington Book Club Meeting #4 is tonight at 8pm Eastern time.
At least 4 of our live bloggers will be live-blogging the Adam Schiff portion of the zoom here in the comments again! Let’s see how the thread tonight goes, and we can definitely make the BJ thread not at the same time as the zoom going forward.
I’ll ask our live-bloggers to write a comment as soon as they get to the thread and let everyone know they will be live-blogging for us.
Thanks to everyone who volunteered!
Also, if anyone didn’t receive a link to the zoom, please say so here ASAP or send me email ASAP.
Excited about Adam Schiff joining us again! The first one with Congressman Schiff was outstanding.
In case you missed our “thank you” note after the first visit:
japa21
I’ll be there with bells on.
ETA: I just received an email from the library. I had put a hold on the book way back when. It is now available for pickup. Fortunately, I don’t need it, but it does show the demand for the book.
A Good Woman
Ready to rock!!
egorelick
Ready. Live-blogging. Loved reading through the last thread.
A Good Woman
Adam is in and we are joking about the desk.
The desk is 20-25 y.o. not an historic relic, yet.
Was in a forum with Jeh Johnson who has the same desk.
egorelick
Congressman Schiff is in the house. Thanks everyone for the word cloud. Lots of interest in the desk. No particular story. Bought in Van Nuys 20 to 25 years ago. Not a historic relic.
One story is that Former Secretary Jay Johnson wanted to show off his desk too. Made a point of changing rooms to show it off.
Lyrebird
So sorry, I am going to have to miss to help keep peace with the kiddos here.
Our internet is going in and out as well, so it might not have worked… Total appreciation for the folks liveblogging tonight!
Have a blast!
egorelick
Looser format will mean shorter comments and more interaction. Patrick Boland (Schiff’s chief(?)) also joined. What happens if there is a collective shrug in Congress and the public yawns once J6 Commission results publicized.
No hope for GOP members in Congress. Leaders blamed Trump at the time, but then fell into line. Can there be anything to change calculus – not unless it means that it changes their only calculus which is to gain power.
A Good Woman
50 in the room.
1st question on the 1/6 Committee – can we just assume if the comm finds all the evidence, but many do not believe the evidence. What if results are met with a collective shrug from Congress, yawn from the public. What then?
Adam – not much hope regarding GOP congresspeople. They can’t bring themselves to hold folks accountable. Anything that will change the calculus? Only calculus seems to be what will help obtain power. Does not mean a failure. Similar dynamic in impeachment trial. Knew unlikely to get conviction, 2 juries – Senators & American people. the 4 Senators and 40 M Americans with open mind. Don’t think entire country as made up its mind. Facts do matter, bring to light, use to inform legislation to protect country, count on voters.
egorelick
Impeachment trial was same dynamic. Making case before 4 Senators who might have had an open mind and the 40 million in the public who might have an open mind. “Facts still do matter to great many Americans.”
“Count on voters to hold accountable.”
A Good Woman
Followup about OJ trial and Watergate, people were riveted. Will they be riveted now?
Adam – people during hearings and trial were paying attention. Would like 1/6 hearins held in prime time.
FOX told viewers before impeachment trial from start to finish, but cut away from the trial or put in soundless box in corner, while Tucker etc. mocked. Can’t break that bubble but still need to reach people.
egorelick
During previous impeachment trials, most of the country paying attention. Public hearings should be held in prime time. That is Schiff’s recommendation.
Fox told viewers before impeachment trial that they would cover trial from beginning to end. When the trial appeared to be not as favorable (Starr, Dershowits shat the bed) they minimized (literally) the coverage (corner of screen) while Tucker Carlson mocked what was going on.
egorelick
BTW (“shat the bed” was my words not Shiff’s, of course). Where do we go from here?
Has to be a grassroots effort in every state to protect right to vote. May not be legislative, but may be assistance to people to overcome obstacles. Joaquin Castro in Texas shared it is happening now in Texas.
Need to come to defense of local and statewide election officials. Some are being attacked electorally, but some are being literally attacked with death threats. Many local election officials did their job even some identified with the GOP.
Also a court strategy.
A Good Woman
Q on where do we go given SCOTUS and what is happening now? How do we deal with midterms — organizing, legislation etc where do we put energy and efforts.
Adam – not giving up on fed legislative path but can’t rely on that. Must be grassroots effort in every state to deal with right to vote. Talked with Joaquin Castro on absentee ballot issue in TX – have to work on overcoming barriers. Also support of election officials who are being threatened – not just Dems, also GOP and non-partisan officials.
There are legal challenges happening, online organizations that can help with this. McCarthy would overturn the election.
A Good Woman
Mom Sense spoke about Voces Frontera that is getting support, and 4 Directions. BJ working hard on supporting the groups. WG talked about the fundraising and matching donations.
egorelick
Holding the House is critical because if the GOP controls Congress then they will overturn any election. McCarthy would have done it in 2020.
Balloon Juice supports organizations that are pro voting rights.
What will DOJ do?
There is a popular belief that DOJ is waiting for Congress. They don’t wait for Congress, they more often ask Congress to wait for them. Referrals (already have for contempt), but although going after people involved with attack, but no other efforts for the other lines of investigation especially Trump Georgia call which was egregious.
A Good Woman
Casey asked about communication between branches of govt. Any indication what DOJ will do with 1/6 findings.
Adam – doesn’t know, however DOJ does not have to wait on 1/6, usually doesn’t. They can act on their own. His concern is that there are many lines for overturning the election, specifically the Raffensberger call. That should be a target. DOJ unlikely waiting on 1/6 committee or Fulton County DA. They don’t need to. Speculates that DOJ doesn’t want to do handle that hot an investigation. Concern if DOJ is dodging this now that TFG is out then prez is becoming above the law.
Leto
“Rep Dejarly (sp) is my representative.” -HinTN
“Tots and pears” – Adam Schiff, and BJ as a whole
egorelick
Justice Department is reluctant to take this on. “Too hot”. If can’t prosecute sitting president and can’t investigate former then President becomes above the law. That’s not tolerable.
Timing of the process? Washington slower than opinion; what does lag look like in D.C.?
Jim Cooper in TN is retiring – gerrymander is influencing that. J6 Committee is moving fast by Congressional standards – interviews w over 400 people, 10’s of thousands of docs. J6 has moved very quickly. Other agencies may be moving slowly or not at all. DOJ is probably doing nothing because we would have heard about it since Grand Jury is hard to keep quiet. Just not happening in DOJ.
A Good Woman
HinTN – seems DC moves far more slowly than opinion than in greater US, blogosphere or liberal blogosphere
Adam – Noted Jim Cooper in TN is retiring but not H’s rep. The committee has moved with incredible rapidity, interviewed over 400 people, 10s of 1,000s of docs. No GOP support aside from Cheney and Kinziger. Appreciates concern over is DOJ moving slowly or not at all. Concerned that nothing is happening, grand jury stuff usually surfaces because witnesses are not under gag orders. Courts have moved very fast.
egorelick
Courts have actually moved fast. USSC gave answer in a matter of months.
No great mechanism for enforcement of Congressional subpoenas. What can be done? What can citizens do because frustration?
Steve Bannon is being prosecuted. Meadows may be prosecuted; J6 is waiting to hear. Assertion of 5th is an issue. Not much to be done because they have a right to do that. Members of Congress have refused, but no subpoenas for MOC’s. What to do and J6 is debating what to do next. Options are: 1) Subpoena – do you refer if defiance? 2)Internal enforcement – remedies without referral but no decision because obviously fraught. Relationship at ebb. J6 trying to work way through. (Doesn’t say anything about obvious political issue.) Can put political pressure but that depends on District makeup. Limited ability, but there is still some points of pressure.
A Good Woman
Argiope – limited or non-enforcement of subpoenas. Is there anything citizens can do to pressure compliance with the law.
Adam – most are cooperating. Bannon was indicted, Meadows – unknown what DOJ is doing. Others taking the 5th. Members of Congress – McCarthy, Jordan and Perry – not cooperating, have not been subpoenaed, committee is going to assess what to do next. If they refuse to comply with a subpoena, will it be enforced. What about other internal mechanisms to enforce compliance. Relationship is at a low ebb at this time.
Holding people accountable is probably the only option for public. Folks in secure seats are unlikely to be influenced. Suggested weighing in when we can, get their attention.
egorelick
Schiff has to stop at 8:30. Only 30 minutes tonight.
Schiff’s dad, “He’s a liar! He’s a liar!”
If dad gets kicked out of his club then he can come hang out on BJ.
When Dad got hauled up before Board (story not in book). Dad called guy an “Asshole” so had to defend himself. His defense was first that “asshole” is in the dictionary so can’t be an obscenity. Second defense Nick Nolte used it in a movie in front of a nine-year old. Board gave him (dad) a warning and asked him to promise not to use the word again. Dad didn’t promise, but said he would try.
A Good Woman
Adam has a hard stop at 8:30
MomSense – Dad, and he’s a LIAH!! Dad is welcome to join us.
Adam — told story about Dad brought up before the board for his club for calling a guy an asshole. Per Dad, he mounted a vigorous self defense – 1 – his mother always told himi if it was not in the dictionary it was an obscenty, but asshole is in dictionary so not an obsencity – 2 – a Nick Nolte movie in which asshole was used a lot, so there’s that.
egorelick
Patrick B vets Schiff’s tweets so no political suicide.
geg6
You guys are doing great. Wish I could have joined the zoom. ?
A Good Woman
Hard Stop was 8:30 ET, so he dawdled a minute or two, thanked us for our efforts.
egorelick
“We’re gonna get through this.”
Josh Hawley just asked why should we support Ukraine. Capitulation to Trump. “The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.” “No affection for democracy.” in the GOP.
Redistricting has gone better than expected. Instead of a blow, may be a wash. Midterms will be competitive. Will depend on pandemic. “Know what we have to do. Have to protect the right to vote. Have to make sure that the House is responsibly governed.”
A Good Woman
Adam – we have been fortunate in redistricting – not a crippling blow, may be more of a wash, but does give GOP an advantage but mid-terms will be more competitive, can still hold the House. Pandemic still a concern.
Protect right to vote
House responsibly governed.
He is an Honorary Jackal
egorelick
Fin. Schiff made a BJ Jackal by acclimation.
Baud
I can’t wait to watch this video. Thanks to the live bloggers
Leto
We came away with a few new nominations for rotating tags.
Scamp Dog
Sorry folks, I got delayed in signing in, and logged in just in time to see Rep. Schiff say goodbye. Are we supposed to live blog the after-discussion as well?
PhoenixRising
I step out for a 2 year pandemic & you people are making Congressmen honorary jackals.
Well done. This was useful to read.
Scout211
@Scamp Dog:
No, WaterGirl said in earlier threads, only live blogging the Adam Schiff portion.
Thank you, live bloggers. Well done.
Nancy
I realized after the zoom ended that my comments are on the wrong thread. Oops.
Scout211
@Nancy:
I just replied to your comment in the other thread. Could you maybe copy and paste your live blogging comments into this thread? It would be nice to have your live blogging in this thread with the other live bloggers. You could even post them all into one long comment.
debbie
Thanks, bloggers!
debbie
We support Ukraine because we support democracies, numbnuts. It’s not rocket science.
zhena gogolia
Another great conversation! Thanks, WaterGirl and Curt.
A Good Woman
Regarding the impact of postcards to voters on turnout. Hoping the links work.
Demcast
and
Progressive Turnout Project
brantl
@PhoenixRising: Good to see you back.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: I will copy over Nancy’s comments.
SiubhanDuinne
WG shared the kind of money we’ve raised (with matches/double matches/strategic donating) and it seemed to me Adam Schiff was blown away by what we’ve accomplished to support voters’ rights. We need to leverage that even more than we have to date. Someone like Adam Schiff can help amplify that information.
Nancy
Tonight’s themes:
We’re Not Helpless Passengers On a Bad Ride, aka Where Do We Go from Here and How Do We Still Have Hope?
More specifically than that, though we are going to focus on a couple of areas that can briefly be described in shorthand as: 1) the Jan 6 commission, and what happens if their results are met with a shrug from Republicans and a collective yawn from the public 2) attempts to control election outcomes with republican Secretaries of State and partisan election officials.
But first, compliments to Adam on the fancy desk. He is chatting with us about his desk and being human.
Nancy
@Nancy:
Watergirl explains plan for the zoom and Adam Schiff agrees.
Her first question:
About Jan 6th commission:
what happens if the commission results are met with a collective shrug by Repubs.
AS doesn’t hold hopes for Repubs, they lived through it. they have fallen into line behind trump.
Retaining power is their only goal. He goes on to cite the dynamic in impeachment trial. Making the case before two juries: congressional and the 40 million Americans who have an open mind.
Facts still matter to many, hope the voters will hold them accountable.
Watergirl asks whether people are tuned out.
AS trusts that hearings held in prime time will draw viewers.
Nancy
Adam Schiff says he knows that they won’t break through the Fox bubble.
Avalie asks how can we protect the vote, where to put our energy and efforts?
AS says we can try federal efforts but there has to be grass roots efforts in every state to overcome new restrictions, for ex, help people get new ID. come to the defense of local election officials. Grass roots efforts are the most important, on-line efforts to fight voter oppression.
MomSense follow up:
She tells AS about Balloon-Juice support for Four Directions, and the other group we support (sorry, brain fog)
Nancy
AS: Justice Department is not investigating TFG for his phone call to GA to find the votes. Disappointing that they have decided the issue is too hot. He rejects the implication that the pres or former pres is above the law.
H in TN:
Washington seems to move more slowly than we do. AS replies that his committee is moving quickly but he understands concerns that DOJ seems to be not doing enough or at all. Courts are moving quickly for example when tfg has sued. Jan 6 committee is moving quickly.
Nancy
Argiope asks about whether we, citizens, can help when witnesses refuse to honor subpoenas.
AS says most are cooperating, a few have been referred to DOJ. Bannon for example. Mark Meadows is still to be determined.
McCarthy, Jordan haven’t been subpoenaed yet. He considers what mechanisms House can use in response to members who refuse to testify. “Remedies” and what to do about uncooperative (despicable louts) House members is a fraught question.
Nancy
MomSense wants Adam Schiff’s father to know that he is welcome to join Balloon-Juice if his club members reject him.
Adam’s father was hauled up before a club committee for calling a Fox fan an asshole. He would fit right in at BJ. Mr. Schiff was let off with a warning, couldn’t guarantee that he wouldn’t say naughty words again with sufficient provocation.
Nancy
This is a much lighter evening. It’s been fun and I think Adam Schiff really enjoys us. We are cool, to be honest.
He’s saying nice things as we come to the end. He has to leave at 8:30.
“Today’s repub party doesn’t have any affection for democracy, the party of Reagan is now the party of Putin” Adam Schiff.
Reminds us that we will get through this, thanks us for everything we’re doing.
WaterGirl
That is the end of the comments from live-blogger Nancy – copied from the earlier post.
SiubhanDuinne
Schiff is busy tonight! Lawrence O’Donnell just flagged that AS will be his next guest in a couple of minutes. I’ll be watching.
WaterGirl
@Leto: I just added this one:
What were the others?
WaterGirl
@PhoenixRising: So nice to see you here!
SiubhanDuinne
@SiubhanDuinne:
Okay, not gonna judge, and I really like LO’D, but honestly? I think Adam Schiff was happier when he was on with us.
opiejeanne
Dammit, I missed it tonight. Got busy making supper and just plain forgot. D’oh.
I’ll read the live-blog later tonight.
opiejeanne
@SiubhanDuinne: He probably was happier with us jackals. I just watched that segment too.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne:
I am looking forward to watching the video.
WaterGirl
Big thanks and three cheers to our live bloggers tonight!
A Good Woman, egorelick, and Nancy – well done!
Thanks Scamp Dog and Lyrebird for your willingness to live-blog even if life did get in the way.
Leto
@WaterGirl: Honestly I’ll have to rewatch it because I’ve forgotten them. But they came right as he was wrapping up, from where he was giving us the extra backstory on his dad and the “Asshole” situation.
PhoenixRising
@WaterGirl: I sent you jackals my sister, who is both nicer and smarter than I am, and you let her interview Adam Schiff. Everyone made out well in this exchange. I hope to be back more as I land from 2 years of flying in circles hoping to not run out of fuel.
Nancy
@Scout211:
Great idea. I’ll try it when I’m on the desktop. Fingers crossed for later today.
Nancy
@WaterGirl:
I already know you are wonderful; now I see that you are knowledgeable, competent, and thoughtful. Thank you for doing this.
WaterGirl
@PhoenixRising: Should I already know which jackal is your sister?
Sister or no sister, I hope we get to see more of you soon. :-)
WaterGirl
@Nancy: Thank you.
Happy to do it! I wanted everyone to be able to find your live-blogging.
Nancy
Still feeling good a day later. He inspired me yet again.
Nancy
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/where-things-stand-keep-talking-trump-schiffs-collecting-evidence
Rock on, Congressman. From February 3, 2022.