Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

Peak wingnut was a lie.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Chutkan laughs. Lauro sits back down.

Let there be snark.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Ah, the different things are different argument.

In after Baud. Damn.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

The willow is too close to the house.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / President Biden LIVE: Successful Counterterrorism Operation + The National Prayer Breakfast

President Biden LIVE: Successful Counterterrorism Operation + The National Prayer Breakfast

by | 150 Comments

This post is in: ,

Does anyone else have mixed feelings about the national prayer breakfast?

At least with President Biden and VP Kamala Harris attending the prayer breakfast I don’t have to wonder like I did during the former guy’s years – will the absolute horror and hypocrisy of it cause the earth to open up and attempt to swallow them whole?

President Biden Delivers Remarks on a Successful Counterterrorism Operation in Northwest Syria to Protect the American People and Make the World a Safer Place.

The remarks at the prayer breakfast is over.

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

150Comments

  1. 1.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    My feelings aren’t mixed. I’m strongly against the mixture of “national” and “prayer” on general principles.

    Of course, I may be biased, given that while I was a conscript in the Greek army, I was put under pressure by superior officers to get baptized into the Greek Orthodox Church.

  3. 3.

    laura

    Very strong feelings against the “national” prayer breakfast and other similar public piety for political power and money show boats.

  4. 4.

    Spanky

    I read that as

    Successful counterterrorism operation at the national prayer breakfast.

    My disappointment is palpable.

  5. 5.

    Betty Cracker

    @laura: Same. I also have mixed feelings about the counterterrorism operation, which reportedly killed several children. Not saying it shouldn’t have been carried out; I don’t know enough about the situation to have an informed opinion. But it always sucks when innocents suffer and die.

  6. 6.

    sab

    I agree with Bruce at #1. Separation of church and state. We never should have been having these, and especially once we realized who was in charge. I am fine with deeply religious politicians, but keep it out of the public sphere.

  9. 9.

    laura

    Just thinking about greasy hacks like Ralph Reed, Jefress, Osteen and fellow god bothers make me feel stabby.

  11. 11.

    p.a.

    In my multiverse version a President shows up, calls out the hypocrites and religious fascists, and the thing shuts down forever. In this ‘verse, progressive pols play the game in the very futile hope some of the hypocrites/fascists can at least remain neutral.
    I also doubt the food is good.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    Interesting tidbit

     

    Sen. Chris Coons: This year’s National Prayer Breakfast is a ‘reset’ (religionnews.com)

    Coons, a Presbyterian, took over as Democratic co-chair for the event from Tim Kaine when the Virginia senator campaigned as former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s running mate in 2016. Kaine reportedly hasn’t been back to the event since that year, telling the liberal-leaning outlet The Young Turks in December that he has “no intention” of returning in 2022.

  15. 15.

    schrodingers_cat

    Ceding religion completely to the right would be a mistake. Politically it makes sense for the President to go to the prayer breakfast. Besides Biden is a devout Catholic. So he is not being a hypocrite like the Orange Person who used to be the President.

  16. 16.

    WaterGirl

    Biden talking about Ted Kennedy immediately transported me back in time to doing GOTV for Obama in Colorado in Jan 2008.  All of us crowded around a computer, watching Ted Kennedy endorse Barack Obama for president.  Tears running down my face just remembering that moment, a turning point that gave us all so much hope.

  17. 17.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    That is interesting. I think Democratic politicians have to admit Right wing religious groups actively endorse and promote Right wing candidates and there is nothing even remotely like that on the Left. It’s grossly lopsided. Maybe they decide to accept that for reasons of their own, but it’s true. “Religion” operates as “religion” on the D side. It’s a political force on the Right. Conservative politicians gain much much more politically from courting religious organizations than liberals do.

  19. 19.

    JPL

    @Betty Cracker:   Loss of life is always sad, but according to nbc news, Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurayshi blew himself and his family up.    I’m not sure how many others died because of the fighting.

  20. 20.

    JPL

    Wasn’t Eisenhower president for the first prayer breakfast?     Off to google now.

    The service was started much earlier, but when it moved to DC, Eisenhower attended.   Since then, every President has attended.

  21. 21.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    “Religion” operates as “religion” on the D side. It’s a political force on the Right.

    I agree.  But I also agree with SC that Dems can’t afford to cede religion to the right.

  22. 22.

    Baud

    @JPL:

    NBC is reporting what the military is saying.  Military hot takes should be taken with a grain of salt.  Hopefully, there will be more definitive conclusion in due course.

  23. 23.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Does anyone else have mixed feelings about the national prayer breakfast?

    Not this atheist. I unequivocally despise it.

  25. 25.

    Baud

    @WaterGirl:

    The president isn’t going to know more than what the military tells him.  It’ll probably take weeks to sort out what actually happened.

  26. 26.

    WereBear

    I don’t think anything officially government should be affiliated with religion. Very strongly.

    Because religion is, by its very nature, based on what is unseen and taken on faith. That is no way to run government. We always regret it.

    Someone’s religion, or lack thereof, or any spiritual leanings, are intensely personal. And should stay that way. I agree with the Founding Fathers that this protects both.

    One of my absolutely HAD IT moments was when I realized they don’t want modernism… unless they do. They decry science but gobble it up like it’s a Golden Corral buffet.

    They can’t have it both ways.

    And if necessary, we must stop them.

  27. 27.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @MazeDancer:

    “The parishioners of St. Timothy’s are obeying the teachings of Jesus when they provide food & medical care to their community. As Christians, we are called by faith to feed the hungry & welcome the stranger. Providing hospitality to all who enter…is integral to our beliefs.”

    Bunch of fn’ commies.

  29. 29.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: It happened in India, the left and the center ceded religion to the right. And in a deeply religious country like India BJP filled the vacuum.

    Independence era Congress leaders like Gandhi and Tilak before him understood that and wove their message in a way that was compatible to the religious sensibilities.

    Even a nod towards religion gets Rahul Gandhi and other non-BJP leaders excoriated in the media by the liberal intelligentsia. For many privileged people, politics  becomes way to show the world how virtuous they are.

  30. 30.

    germy

    We need a counterterrorism operation against the people who are terrorizing the HBCUs.

     

    I hope that isn’t too hot a take this morning.

  31. 31.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    I don’t think religions should be banned or separated from public life, but I think it gets too much deference when it’s clearly operating on the Right as a political force. If churches want to lobby for Right causes and politicians, that’s fine, but they should be treated like any other “interest group” in that capacity.

    Catholic Charities USA, the largest charitable organization run by the church, receives about 65 percent of its annual budget from state and federal governments

    Just be truthful about what’s going on here. We all fund “Catholic Charities” – they’re a government contractor. No one has to dance around this. We all know many Right wing religious orgs that benefit from preferential tax treatment operate as GOP campaign arms. It isn’t insulting or anti- religious, it’s just a fact. We’re all paying for this, religious and non religious.

  32. 32.

    NotMax

    Deserves more than a passing mention.

    U.S. special forces carried out what the Pentagon said was a successful, large-scale counterterrorism raid in northwestern Syria early Thursday. Local residents and activists said civilians were also among the dead.
    [snip]
    Several residents told The Associated Press they saw body parts scattered near the site of the raid, a house in the village of Atmeh in Syria’s rebel-held Idlib province. They spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals following the raid, which they said involved helicopters, explosions and machine-gun fire.

    It was the largest raid in the province since the 2019 U.S. assault targeting the Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. Idlib is dominated by the Al-Qaida group and its affiliates, and is home to several top al-Qaida operatives. But other militants have also found refuge in the region, which is broadly held by Turkey-backed fighters.

    The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, an opposition war monitor, said the strike killed nine people, including two children and a woman. Ahmad Rahhal, a citizen journalist who visited the site, reported seeing 12 bodies. Others were reportedly still under the rubble.

    The Pentagon provided no details on who was the target of the raid, or if any combatants or civilians on the ground were killed or injured.

    Residents and activists described witnessing a large ground assault, with U.S. forces using loudspeakers urging women and children to leave the area.

    There was at least one major explosion. A U.S. official said that one of the helicopters in the raid suffered a mechanical problem and had to be blown up on the ground. The U.S. official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss details of the military operation. Source

  35. 35.

    germy

    Hacker? This Woman Adds ‘Reddit’ to the End of Every Google Search

    These incredible hacking skills allow her to solve the problems truly important in her life, bypassing the morass of bullshit that is the majority of the Internet.

    “I’ve had many successful missions,” said Joanna. “Like when an anonymous user name-dropped the best eyebrow threader in my neighborhood, or that one TL;DR post with much-needed life advice my parents never gave me.”

    “It started when I just wanted Google to tell me what vitamins to eat to make my rash go away, and fucking Pinterest kept clogging up the search results,” Joanna said. “You know, if you want real answers, you have to look under the surface. It’s all public information… if you know where to look.”

  37. 37.

    Anyway

    Nancy Pelosi is (appears to be) a deeply religious person. But she never gets ANY points from the right for her faith. Same with Biden. The kind of performative prosperity gospel the religious right believes in doesn’t leave room for any other kind of faith.

  40. 40.

    germy

    @NotMax:  The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, an opposition war monitor, said the strike killed nine people, including two children and a woman.

    “Winning hearts and minds” is a long U.S. military tradition.

  41. 41.

    Another Scott

    @Anyway: It’s a tribal signifier for them.  It has nothing to do with actual religious practices.

    Of course.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  42. 42.

    Baud

    @WaterGirl:

    In general, yes.  But both of them, at this early stage, are relying on U.S. military reports generated just a few hours after the operation.

  44. 44.

    Kay

    It just bugs me that this huge political force on the Right – power that religious leaders on the Right absolutely seek out and wield – is presented as something that can’t even be discussed without howls of outrage that it’s somehow “apart” and “above” other groups seeking political power and influence. They want all the upside of political power but none of the downside. They’re above all these earthly concerns until they’re lobbyng for preferential treatment and government subsidies and contracts. It’s all lobbying to me. I don’t think it’s any purer than non religious groups doing the same thing. They can lobby to their hearts content, just know they’re in there pushing with all the rest, from defense contractors to labor unions. I don’t grant them a holy exemption.

  47. 47.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Spanky: Matthew 6:5-8, biotches! You NPB folks should read that book you keep waving around.

    This! It’s right there in the frickin’ Sermon on the Mount, if you’re any sort of Christian, how do you miss it?

  49. 49.

    Kay

    @Anyway:

    I’ll never get over that. The people who enthusiastically support Donald Trump are judging Pelosi and Biden on ethics and morality? Please. Just admit it’s pure power politics. They wanted something from Trump so they gave him a pass on ethics. They made a deal. They don’t get both sides of this- they don’t get an elevated position where they lecture others while busily brokering deals with whichever Right winger looks most popular this cycle.

  50. 50.

    WereBear

    @Anyway: I don’t think this “right-wing Christianity” is even religion at all by this point. Several cult experts have been pointing to the Q phenomenon as the point where they left any semblance of a recognized religion and joined White Nationalism.

    That is their religion now. Which is ridiculously Nazi.

  52. 52.

    Matt McIrvin

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Ceding religion completely to the right would be a mistake.

    But the National Prayer Breakfast isn’t about “religion,” it’s a sectarian event promoting evangelical Protestantism. Always has been.

  53. 53.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: I know several active Ds*  who are also active church goers (Methodist and other mainline denominations) and are liberal who are actively helping the Afghan refugees. Quakers too. There is a long tradition of liberal activism by churches in New England and mid-Atlantic states.

    *white

  54. 54.

    WereBear

    @Kay: They want all the upside of political power but none of the downside.

    If there is one signifier of a right wing personality in development, it is this. They always want it both ways, even though that is not possible. But a mind mired in fantasy, they will act as though it’s true.

    No matter what.

  55. 55.

    Kay

     

    I prefer political operatives and lobbyists who admit they’re engaged in a transaction to those who don’t. That’s my ethical framework- people who tell themselves and others the truth. This will all get a lot easier and clearer if everybody just lays that out. Non-religious deserve at least that.

  58. 58.

    citizen dave

    Like many here, I truly despise this event, and wish “our” people would not attend.  When bullshit like this happens: “”You’re a man of your word and a man of honor,” Pres. Biden to Sen. Min. Leader Mitch McConnell just now at the National Prayer Breakfast.”

     

    I won’t live long enough to see an openly nonreligious or atheist elected President, but the D party needs to claim science, knowledge and reality as their issues.  The R’s live in a fantasyland.  F them all.

  60. 60.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Matt McIrvin: Protestants have always been more equal than others. When we talk of religion that is the default. Just like the Vedic religion in India. So its not surprising. Nevertheless I don’t think Biden or any Democratic President should cede this venue and gathering to RWNJs.

  61. 61.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

    And a public demonstration of political power! Look at all these powerful people they can get in a room!

    Clout. They have it and they want the country to know it. It’s fine on its own terms- all political actors do it- I just think these political actors should be treated like all the rest.

  62. 62.

    Gin & Tonic

    I wish that the people who repeated the whole “we need to solve things diplomatically” line in re Russia and Ukraine bothered to check what Russia’s diplomatic efforts are looking like.
    — Joel Wasserman (@joelw_762) February 3, 2022

  64. 64.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: It is a religion that positions itself as the state religious establishment of the US, which is overtly unconstitutional.

  65. 65.

    Baud

    @citizen dave:

    but the D party needs to claim science, knowledge and reality as their issues.

    If people think that Biden attending this erases the Dem’s hold on science, knowledge and reality, then we have no shot at being anything but a very small minority party.

  67. 67.

    schrodingers_cat

    Personally I find public display of religiosity uncomfortable but I am on outlier on this. In politics one needs to have a broad appeal to succeed.  And I realize that ceding religion to the Republicans would be a huge self goal.

  73. 73.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Omnes Omnibus: That’s more or less what he mentions in the thread. Yes, distressing to see this line repeated in the last couple of days by “progressives” in Congress.

  74. 74.

    germy

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I thought I’d read that the Biden administration’s sanctions were targeting Putin’s inner circle.

    EDIT:  Here’s one article:

    People familiar with the discussions said new economic sanctions could target a variety of sectors, including energy producers and Russian banks. The new sanctions could also go after Russia’s sovereign debt.
    They are also likely to go after top Russian oligarchs, limiting their ability to travel and potentially cutting off access to American banking and credit card systems.

  76. 76.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Baud:

    What sanctions would we impose that would hurt the Ukranian people?

    I don’t know, and neither, apparently, does she.

  79. 79.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Baud: On a more serious side, this crisis is likely again to highlight the fault lines between internationalists and isolationists on the Democratic foreign policy front.

  81. 81.

    Geminid

    @Gin & Tonic: I expect Representative Ocasio-Cortez to stake out foreign policy positions that are skeptical of the Biden administration’s policies. But I don’t expect her be well informed on a given topic, and sometimes that lack shows.

  82. 82.

    dlw32

    Counterterrorism attack: Early reports were that 13 were killed of which 7-10 were civilians. I have a hard time calling it “successful” when half the people killed were non-combatants. Of course reports could be wrong for better or worse… it just seems an odd framing.

    I don’t mind people praying… like the old joke, as long as there are math tests there will be prayer in school… As a Christian I’ve always found the idea of public prayer odd. Mathew 6, Jesus himself tells you not to do it. Prayer is supposed to be a moment between you and God, not you and the nation.

  83. 83.

    Baud

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    For me, the isolationists lost credibility when they couldn’t back Biden on Afghanistan.  Also, unless Putin threatens a NATO country, I think the likihood of U.S. troops on the ground is close to zero.

    I’m more interested in seeing what happens to the GOP because there is a Putin faction and a “Biden is weak” faction, and those positions are hard to reconsile.

  84. 84.

    JCJ

    @NotMax:

    Interesting phrasing -“killed nine people, including two children and a woman” – no idea whether this woman was a combatant or not, providing material support, or completely uninvolved.  Is the group that made this statement unaware that a woman might also be involved in armed conflict?

  86. 86.

    jonas

    Government officials should not be attending overtly religious services in their official capacity as office-holders (except maybe funerals and the like). It also leaves a bad taste in my mouth that the president is doing so on the morning after he ordered a bunch of people — albeit some very bad people — killed in a military operation. That said, at least Biden is a genuinely religious person capable of reflecting on that unfortunate tension, unlike Mr. “Too Corinthians” who liked to clear areas with tear gas to stage photo-ops with an upside-down Bible.

  90. 90.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Baud: I am a pretty firm internationalist.  Most of the problems the world faces cannot be solved by one country acting alone.  Pulling out of Afghanistan was the right decision for anyone but the forever war crew (who are the tankies of the internationalists and just as deserving of respect imo).

  93. 93.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Omnes Omnibus: Tankies of internationalists? I thought they were called neocons.

    I am pretty happy with Biden’s foreign policy stances so far. From Afghanistan to Ukraine. I once tweeted in favor of Biden’s foreign policy during the last presidential campaign I got attacked and trolled for it by our tankies, Indian lefties and BJP idiots.  Also got called a CIA stooge. Good times.

  95. 95.

    sab

    @schrodingers_cat: Currently we do not have a single Protestant on the Supreme Court, unless you want to count Gorsuch (I don’t count him.) Two Jews, one of whom is leaving, and seven Catholics.

    I am kind of amazed that the Evangelicals haven’t noticed.

    If Biden gets his Black woman Supreme Court nominee we may have our first Protestant appointed in the last twenty years.

  96. 96.

    Baud

    @sab: IIRC, Judge Jackson, who is a leading contender, is Catholic.

    But yeah, the protestants and evangelicals have fallen asleep here, although it appears they will be getting a lot of what they want from the GOP catholics on the court.

  97. 97.

    Kirk Spencer

    On this “major counter-terrorism operation” thing, I’m wondering where the other hand is. You know, the one that’s doing the work while everyone’s distracted by the kill count.

    If you just want to kill a bunch of people, use missiles/air strike. FSM knows we’ve done it before.

    No, this was an assault with a team. For some reason we needed eyes and boots on the ground. But in none of what I’ve seen has anyone mentioned a particular individual (to kill or capture) or material or information. Nope, we came in, made our pious declaration that women and children needed to vacate the vicinity (and as a former tough bunny rabbit THAT is weird), then went in with a bunch of shooting and yelling and air support.

    This makes no sense. yet.

  99. 99.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @schrodingers_cat: Yeah, the far fringe of the neocons would be the mirror image of tankies.

    I would not be surprised to see some of the old blog fights over foreign policy break out again.

  100. 100.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    the minority base of the Dems, I think, is generally more religious than the Dems’ white base.

    I don’t think this has been an issue for Democrats because US churches are really segregated by race. Democrats can and do reach out and align with black churches without ever encountering Right wing religious:

    Today, 86 percent of American churches lack any meaningful racial diversity. It is still true that, as Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. observed, “the most segregated hour of Christian America is eleven o’clock on Sunday morning.”

    They’re more segregrated than US public schools, which is really saying something, because public schools have jurisdictional boundaries determined by residence.

  101. 101.

    Villago Delenda Est

    I’ve never cared much for these “prayer breakfasts”, especially when it was made obligatory when I was in the Army. Oh, the prayers are all suitably non-denominational, but there’s the entire invisible sky buddy problem with them. Paying more attention to the teachings of Jesus or Buddha or Mohammad or the Talmud might be more appropriate than prayers to invisible sky buddies.

  102. 102.

    Bart

    The NPB was always a scam and a grift and a rightwing event, and that became crystal clear in 2020: https://thehumanist.com/commentary/let-us-say-its-time-to-end-the-national-prayer-breakfast/

    In fact, Trump has helped expose for all to see the inner workings of the prayer breakfast host, the Family (aka the Fellowship Foundation). This secretive, right-wing organization (that counts among its “friends” Vice President Mike Pence and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos) has worked since its inception during the Great Depression to promote a capitalist form of Christianity.

  103. 103.

    Matt

    Fuck the NPB and fuck the Christofascists that run it.

    Biden’s speech should have been one sentence: “We’re charging you all with seditious conspiracy and tax fraud, the FBI has the building surrounded.”

  104. 104.

    Kay

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    I do think for devout Democrats, like Biden, or Jimmy Carter, or Al Gore (IMO) asking them to not talk about their religion or religious grounding is silencing them. It’s a central fact of their lives, a set of organizing principles that informs everything they do. They can’t just omit it. It would be odd and inauthentic, really. It’s what they are.

  106. 106.

    sdhays

    @MazeDancer: So, this town of 6,700 people passed an ordinance limiting the ability of a church to…(checks notes)… feed people, and now the mayor is “upset” that people are saying he and the City Council are “wicked”.

    “There are other ways to explain what’s going on without vilifying the City Council,” he said, according to the news site. “I’m upset over this. I’ve been upset over it for weeks. There has never been a statement from this council or staff about shutting down benevolent kitchens. We’re looking to strike an equilibrium.

    They “shut down the kitchens” for 4 extra days of the week by law. What stronger statement is there?

    I can understand how there might be some issues with the neighbors, but passing an ordinance to just shut down free meals is both lazy and cruel. But how dare anyone suggest that the Mayor and his buddies on the Council aren’t good people! It has made them upset!!

  108. 108.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @WereBear: One of my absolutely HAD IT moments was when I realized they don’t want modernism… unless they do. They decry science but gobble it up like it’s a Golden Corral buffet.

    Fundamentally ;^D they confuse science and applied science, i.e., technology. What they “gobble up” is the latter – the stuff that bursts onto the scene suddenly, seemingly out of nowhere, brimming with all sorts of new possibilities.

    They can’t have it both ways.​

    They have no (at best, minimal) understanding that the technologies they crave all crucially depend on pure scientific research which may have occurred decades earlier – e.g., the first masers and lasers (1954 and 1960, respectively) were applications of an Einstein paper on stimulated emission of radiation published in 1917 – and that in general, many things have to be developed or assembled before a widely-applicable breakthrough occurs. It’s equivalent to the capitalist who becomes an “overnight success” after trying and failing at dogonlynose how many different efforts for 20 or 30 years.

  110. 110.

    Kay

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    If you asked Biden what he is it would probably be a list of things – father, husband, Catholic, political leader, Democrat. His order might be different but it’s in the top five :)

  113. 113.

    jeffreyw

    @Villago Delenda Est:  The last time I attended a church service was the Sunday that they marched our entire trainee company to one because it was our turn to man the pews. Fort Gordon in 1969. Seems the battalion commander was a very religious man.

  116. 116.

    schrodingers_cat

    @opiejeanne: The original tankies made excuses for Stalin as tanks rolled into various countries of Eastern Europe after WWII. It was British slang IIRC.

    Present day tankies make excuses for antagonists of the United States and think that United States is the evilest evil that ever eviled

    They think Snowden is a hero. They complained incessantly during Obama years about drones and went silent during the Orange President’s use of the same. They attack the Ds from the left. Their rhetoric matches Putin’s  whether through ignorance or malice I will let you decide.

  117. 117.

    eddie blake

    @WaterGirl:  president  obama?

    i find myself calling biden “president o’biden.” it’s a strange reflexive mistake, but i keep making it.

  120. 120.

    Geminid

    @Kay: Another Pennsylvania-born politician, Pennsylvania Representative Conor Lamb, is explicit in his Twitter account heading: “Marine, Prosecutor, Patriot, Catholic, Democrat.”  The 37 year-old Senate hopeful even looks like an Eagle Scout. And he speaks Spanish well enough to converse with Pennsylvania’s Latino voters in their native language.

    We’ll see how many Pennsylvania Democrats like this in the May primary. The latest polls show Lamb still trailing the Lieutenant Governor.

  123. 123.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Kay: I completely agree. Hell, AFAIC, prosperity gospel organizations are not religious organizations. They all have out-and-out fraud and tax evasion as their basic business model, and should be assumed to be as such until proven otherwise. If half the IRS investigative/enforcement resources was devoted to nailing these guys, and the other half was devoted to going after the 0.001 percent-ers, this would be a mighty fine country in about 3 years.

  124. 124.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Kay: ​
     Kay, I recognize that, but I really do not like this imposition of invisible sky buddy worship as a sanctioned government event.

  125. 125.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Chief Oshkosh: ​
     Congress has been ruthlessly starving the IRS of the ability to go after these tax cheats. The IRS needs some serious reinforcement, then unleash the hounds.

  128. 128.

    J R in WV

    @Bruce K in ATH-GR: ​
     

    My feelings aren’t mixed. I’m strongly against the mixture of “national” and “prayer” on general principles.

    Of course, I may be biased, given that while I was a conscript in the Greek army, I was put under pressure by superior officers to get baptized into the Greek Orthodox Church.

    I was astounded in US Navy boot camp to find that mandatory Sunday “Church” services were Southern Baptist Revival come to Jesus meetings.

    After my first exposure to the highly structured and repulsive “religious” ceremony, with people being encouraged to come down front to confess their sins and be washed in the blood of the lamb, I told the CO of my recruit company that I wasn’t going to attend another such ceremony, that it was unAmerican and hateful, inappropriate for members of non-Southern Baptist religions like Catholics, Jews, Unitarians, Methodists, etc, etc.

    He was shocked for a couple of seconds and started yelling at me thereafter. I stood at attention while being yelled at, evidently the Chief was a Southern Baptist and believed that was the only real religion going forward. After an hour of so of that, he went away, came back and took me to the officer in charge of the whole barracks full of recruit companies for more louder yelling.

    In the end, they had me attend “ethics” training by watching old film and video stuff every Sunday. Was as horrible as you can imagine. Have been ethical ever since, was ethical before. But they couldn’t have me lounging around the barracks while everyone else went to mandatory church, now could they.?

  129. 129.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    I was really wary of overtly religious people as a child and I never got past it. I felt they were judging me and my family of origin – I think I was right about that- and I resented it. A gut level lack of trust. I can think they’re great as individuals, one of my closest friends is a very religious Episcopalian (and she’s a political liberal) but I can’t approach them as a group or their “official” representatives.

    But I completely get how religious individuals identify as religious on a core level. I don’t know how they would do otherwise.

  130. 130.

    Dopey-o

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Does anyone else have mixed feelings about the national prayer breakfast?

    Not this atheist. I unequivocally despise it.

    Seconded by a devout Catholic. “Whitened sepulchers,” anyone?

  131. 131.

    J R in WV

    @jeffreyw:

    The last time I attended a church service was the Sunday that they marched our entire trainee company to one because it was our turn to man the pews. Fort Gordon in 1969. Seems the battalion commander was a very religious man.

    And no surprise to see that I am not the only person who attended church under orders in boot camp. Still Sad!

  132. 132.

    Geminid

    @Kay: I personally don’t care about a candidate’s religious nature so long as they are not obnoxious about it.

    Besides being a “Marine, Prosecutor, Patriot, Catholic, [and] Democrat.” Conor Lamb is a politician through and through. Not that this is a bad thing. Lamb is trying to walk the path that took fellow Catholic Democrat Bob Casey to a 650,000 vote win in 2018, and I think he will pull it off.

  133. 133.

    Kalakal

    @schrodingers_cat:

    It was British slang IIRC.

    Yep, that’s right. In the 60s and 70s it was commonly applied to  major Trades Union leaders by politicians. It probably reached its peak when Labour PM Harold Wilson told Hugh Scanlon (Head of the Amalgamated Engineering Union (AEU))to “Get your tanks off my lawn’. It wsa a policy that effectively destroyed the Communist party of Great Britain (CPGB) when they supported the invasion of Hungary and then splintered over the Prague spring

    Since the 80s to used to describe , contemptuously, various groupescules such as the IMG,SLL, SWO,Militant, RSL ad nauseam. They were constantly splintering, very authoritarian and utterly convinced that everything the Soviets did was pure, noble, and wonderful

  134. 134.

    Kalakal

    To me overt displays of religiosity by politicians is very off putting. In the UK generally it’s an electoral liability.

    Not the case in the States and I agree with the jackals who are saying it is not an area we should cede to the right.

  135. 135.

    Ohio Mom

    A little late to this thread but I want to add this thought about religion in America.

    White Mainline Churches (Presbyterian, Methodist, Congregationalists, etc.) have traditionally promoted liberal causes. That is why the “vast right conspiracy,” even before that term became a household word, targeted them.

    One of their big weapons has been gay rights, for example, quietly supporting/instigating the factions against having clergy officiate at same-sex weddings.

    Their goal is to have the big demoninations split and the reason is money. Big denominations have big endowments that are used to support social justice causes. Breaking a denomination apart splits tne endowment.

    Now the traditional half has a smaller membership, which means less money coming in and a smaller endowment that may have to be used to make up the loss in membership payments. And they are probably now a little gun shy. All this works against the denomination taking a leadership role on social justice issues.

    And that leaves the evangelical churches more space to shout their message.

  136. 136.

    Citizen Alan

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    As a lapsed Baptist, I would say that if Jesus ever showed up at the national prayer breakfast, he would kick over the tables and chase everyone around with a whip.

  137. 137.

    Madeleine

    @Uncle Cosmo: dead thread, nevertheless: thank you for differentiating science from applied science/technology. I’ve been yelling at the tv and radio about the many people calling technology, whether medical or other, science. They’re different. It matters. Grrr.

  138. 138.

    Matt McIrvin

    @debbie: I would actually expect a Catholic to be at least a little uncomfortable with the NPB, since it’s connected deeply to Protestant and evangelical groups specifically.

  139. 139.

    Matt McIrvin

    @J R in WV:

    I was astounded in US Navy boot camp to find that mandatory Sunday “Church” services were Southern Baptist Revival come to Jesus meetings.

    If we ever get to the point of the US military supporting an autogolpe by attacking US civilians, this kind of thing will be part of the reason.

  140. 140.

    Citizen Alan

    @lowtechcyclist:  Tim Lahaye, the author of the left behind behind series, was of the opinion that the beatitudes described what things would be like in heaven and had absolutely no relevance to how christians should act in the world today.  Which is pretty much what you would expect from a guy who became a millionaire off of badly written Christian revenge snuff porn.

  141. 141.

    JaneE

    Prayer breakfasts are the antithesis of separation of church and state.  Government officials need to make clear they are not endorsing any of the religions present, or maybe have similar meetings with members of other religions who were not represented in the “national” one.  Better meet with atheists too, while you are at it.

    I just wish that someone at the National Prayer Breakfast would open with a recitation of Matthew 6.

  143. 143.

    Chris

    @sab:

    @schrodingers_cat: Currently we do not have a single Protestant on the Supreme Court, unless you want to count Gorsuch (I don’t count him.) Two Jews, one of whom is leaving, and seven Catholics.

    I am kind of amazed that the Evangelicals haven’t noticed.

    It makes sense.  It’s, frankly, one of the biggest supporting points in favor of what liberals have been saying for a while: the religious right is overwhelmingly a racial thing, not a religious one.

  144. 144.

    Chris

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Oh, the prayers are all suitably non-denominational

    Rule of thumb: “religious” really means “Christian.”  “Non-denominational” really means “Protestant.”  And “Christian” really means “evangelical fundamentalist.”

  145. 145.

    Chris

    @schrodingers_cat:

    @opiejeanne: The original tankies made excuses for Stalin as tanks rolled into various countries of Eastern Europe after WWII. It was British slang IIRC.

    I thought the reference came from slightly later, either Hungary in 1956 or Czechoslovakia in 1968, both cases where the Soviet army suppressed liberal unrest in its Central European colonies?

    Same basic principle, though.

  146. 146.

    Chris

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    The IRS is one of only two policing agencies that I think need way more support and funding.  (The other being ATF).

    Take it from the budget of agencies like ICE, CBP, DEA, FBI, CIA, and that headache-inducing constellation of intelligence and police agencies the Pentagon’s got.

  147. 147.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @J R in WV: In my conscript days, at boot camp, there were about half a dozen of us out of a thousand-strong conscript regiment who weren’t Greek Orthodox, so while everyone else went to services, we were put to work cleaning the latrines.

    Wasn’t until I was squaring away my paperwork that an officer asked me how my name, that doesn’t translate or transliterate into Greek properly, was written out on my baptismal record, that they discovered that I didn’t have any religion at all, and promptly ordered me to get baptized at the next available opportunity.

    (I mustered out two days later.)

  148. 148.

    Jim Vandewalker

    @Spanky: ”When you pray do not do as the hypocrites do and pray on the streetcorner or in the the midst of the synagogue and call attention to your piety but instead lock yourself in your private room and pray in secret to your father who will answer in secret.”  —Some Guy

  149. 149.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I for one will never take them seriously again when they start lecturing about morals. For them “religion” has been boiled down to being anti-abortion and anti-gay.

  150. 150.

    Jim Vandewalker

    @Matt McIrvin: I was brought up as a Catholic in the US south and acquired a kind of reflexive wariness of evangelicals who up through the 60s and 70s were pretty hostile to mackerel snappers which is why I’m always amazed at the degree to which they intertwine now.  Fred Clark at Slacktivist has some pretty good insights as to how and why. (Hint: abortion). I have to wonder how fast the evangelicals are going to throw the Catholics overboard when the Gilead Republic is declared.

Comments are closed.