I’m no expert on war, but I do know a thing or two about timing, and it seems like the “only America has agency” ‘left’ is pivoting en masse to blaming Putin’s aggression on, you guessed it, Democrats.
You, a hysterical Lib: Vladimir Putin invading Ukraine would be responsible for ‘exacerbating tensions’
Me, a wise not-a-Trump-supporter: the US govt telling telling American citizens to flee due to the threat of war….is actually responsible for ‘exacerbating tensions’ pic.twitter.com/otCUFkE5OG
— Centrism Fan Acct ? (@Wilson__Valdez) February 11, 2022
The media is making my president, Vladimir Putin, mass 100s of 1000s of troops on Ukraine’s border. Shame on the media!
— Centrism Fan Acct ? (@Wilson__Valdez) February 11, 2022
I’m sure Matt Taibbi and Glenn Greenwald are furiously masturbating drafting newsletters on this as we speak.
It’s all very predictable, but that doesn’t make it less galling. I thought I was over these people but their Russia takes are just so deranged that they always get a rise out of me.
Open thread, happy Friday!
Update: in what I’m sure is a staggering coincidence…
Russia's foreign ministry responds to US claims of imminent war. Calls it a Western conspiracy to increase tensions via a disinformation campaign https://t.co/VTQaFZndTK
— Seva (@SevaUT) February 11, 2022
Baud
Makes one miss “drones.”
At least that was coherent, even if inconsistently applied.
trollhattan
Russia bombs don’t actually kill anybody (just ask the Syrians) so it’s pansy-waist of Americans to consider not being in Ukraine if they don’t have to, in case the bombing starts.
Got it.
trollhattan
Russia: “We would never have started war if Americans didn’t first accuse us of organizing to start war.”
Chris
A highwayman holds a pistol to my ear, and mutters through his teeth, “Stand and deliver, or I shall kill you, and then you will be a murderer!”
Major Major Major Major
@Chris: The responses to the Snowden tweet are also that weird kind of predictably deranged statements… “well have YOU seen the troops or did you just READ about them in THE MEDIA?”
Cermet
This entire Russian/Ukraine mess started when Bushie the minor decided they made their own reality and ignored our promise not to expand NATO Eastward – least of all to the border of Russia via the Baltic States. Insane. Now Russia rightfully fears its entire southern region – a place perfect for tanks – will be wide open for NATO if the Ukraine joins said alliance. Russia has been backed into a corner and frankly, we need to agree that the NATO expansion – an alliance solely against Russia (DUH!) – will not expand any further.
Matt McIrvin
@Chris: That is cool.
Gin & Tonic
Knowing, as I do, many Ukrainians residing in Ukraine and many American, Canadian and other ex-pats residing in Ukraine, I can say that Jake Sullivan’s briefing was not helpful.
Old Man Shadow
If only we had sent more teenagers to die in Afghanistan, this would never have happened. /eyeroll
Gin & Tonic
@Cermet: STFU.
Cermet
@Gin & Tonic: LOL; the truth hurts
Old Man Shadow
@Cermet: I think the problem is less NATO and more the authoritarian dick weasel deciding to punish his neighbors for not genuflecting to him.
Major Major Major Major
@Cermet:
I can’t help but notice that Russia hasn’t been threatening the much, much smaller and more helpless Baltic states. Do you think this is bad?
zhena gogolia
@Cermet: You are so full of shit.
Chris
@Baud:
“Drones” wasn’t nakedly promoting one country’s armed aggression. This, on the other hand…
As often as I heard the accusation, I never met people who were actually “officially I’m anti-war, but in reality I’m anti-America” types at the height of the war on terror years. Some of the anti-war crowd were definitely not all there, but they weren’t actually pushing Taliban or Saddamist propaganda, even if they were accused of such constantly. 2014 was the big turning point, when people whose philosophy was “whatever RT is currently saying, updated daily” started popping up everywhere on the web.
Sad transition. I’m told older people would remember “anti-war” types like this, given how much money Russia spent in the Cold War to promote it. I was perfectly happy never having known them, though.
Gin & Tonic
Here’s a sharp analysis:
zhena gogolia
@Major Major Major Major: Not to mention, who the fuck promised anything?
jonas
Media: “Telling Americans to leave before there is fighting is just increasing tensions!”
Also, Media (after hundreds of Americans are trapped/killed in an invasion): “Why weren’t they evacuated in time??”
Gin & Tonic
@Cermet: Everything you write on this topic is complete, unadulterated horseshit.
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: The next six months will be critical!
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic: Why is it so irresponsible?
Chris
@Cermet:
Oh hi!
Seen you spreading this shit at LGM, too.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
Can you explain the criticism?
Baud
@jonas: This. It’s blatant.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: That’s my feeling, but I can’t access twitter without jumping through hoops so I’m not up on the latest.
My husband does not want me to join twitter. He puts up with BJ, so I’m willing to go along with him on this one.
Roger Moore
@zhena gogolia:
It’s not saying for sure that it’s irresponsible. It’s saying it’s irresponsible to say that Putin has made the decision to go to war if we don’t have solid information that he has. So they are suggesting three possibilities:
Of course we won’t be able to know the difference between 2 and 3 until more facts come out, which may take a long time.
ETA: I would add a 4th possibility, which is that we think he’s decided to go to war, but our intel is bad. This could be generic badness or somebody deliberately providing us with false information for whatever reason.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
Twitter is only good for cat memes
Baud
@Roger Moore:
Did Sullivan say that Putin had made the decision to go to war? I did not watch his news conference. The only news I’ve heard is that Americans were advised to leave, which to me only suggests a substantial risk.
different-church-lady
There are quite a few professionals thought-havers who really should not be having thoughts.
different-church-lady
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: Instagram is better for that anyway.
Roger Moore
@Baud:
I don’t remember who said it exactly, but I have seen reports in the news that Putin had made the decision to invade.
different-church-lady
@zhena gogolia: He puts up with this joint? You should marry him.
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: A) 40+ million Ukrainians have been living with Russian occupation for 8 or so years now – where should they go? B) Telling American ex-pats “the sky is falling, you have to leave” when what you really mean is “don’t ask us for help if shit goes sideways” is bullshit. Say what you mean. People know what is and isn’t important to them, and if they live in-country they have a good idea what’s what.
Brachiator
I had to switch away from a couple of talk radio stations where the hosts were practically wetting their pants over how Putin was masterfully manipulating the West and Biden.
But I cannot imagine how any war between the West or the US and Russia could be a good thing.
ETA: Not saying that the US or even Putin is definitely starting anything, but just find it outrageous that some pundits seem to think that war between the West and Russia is no big thing.
zhena gogolia
@Roger Moore: Hasn’t there been a troop buildup? I saw Russian comments on a Russian article accusing the West of being irresponsible, and those comments were asking why the extra troops if nothing was being planned.
different-church-lady
@Cermet: Thank you, Bob in Portland.
Chris
@Roger Moore:
As near as I can tell, the U.S. is operating on the basic premise that they need to beat the Kremlin to the media punch, so that they’re at least not allowed to set the initial narrative.
The “antiwar” “left” will still buy whatever RT puts out hook, line, and sinker, but a lot of more mainstream folk hopefully won’t.
different-church-lady
@Gin & Tonic: what’s the last 1%?
Gin & Tonic
@Brachiator: There will not be war between the US and Russia. Don’t be a chump.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
There’s nothing the U.S. can do about A.
As to B, the U.S. has an obligation to inform its citizens living abroad of risks. Only if the risk of war is non-existent, then I agree that it was BS. And no one disputes the ability of people who live in-country to make their own decisions.
I don’t see a valid criticism yet.
Gin & Tonic
@different-church-lady: The 1% is the percentage of journalists who know math.
HumboldtBlue
Here’s a map project that may be of interest to those closely following the developments in Ukraine.
Here’s a YouTube channel that may be of use as well.
I haven’t watched the YouTube channel so can’t vouch for the quality, but the map project I’ve encountered before and it’s a crowdsourced collection of Russian military movement.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic:
Why is that the responsibility of the U.S. government?
When in history has the government made a statement like that? Why is this somehow considered some kind of feckless behavior on the part of the administration, when it’s standard practice?
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: Obligation to inform citizens, perhaps. But DoS is actively calling US citizens in Ukraine – live humans calling, not robo-calls – and telling them to leave the country ASAP. How does this help anything?
Ruckus
@zhena gogolia:
You are so correct.
That bag of fresh manure you linked to is just continuing spreading itself over all of us.
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia: Yeah, I’m done here.
Major Major Major Major
@zhena gogolia: Big troop movement. The stuff that’s most visible by satellite is materiel, but we do know they’ve moved a staggering number of battalion tactical groups (motorized infantry, I believe) to within spitting distance of the border. I seem to remember reading that they’ve even moved a bunch away from their Chinese flank.
Roger Moore
@zhena gogolia:
There has been a troop buildup, but that doesn’t necessarily mean an invasion is imminent. For example, a troop buildup would also be consistent with attempts to bully Ukraine with the threat of an invasion that’s not really planned. If the other side has good intelligence- and nobody will discount the capabilities of US spy satellites- preparations for a threat have to look exactly like preparations for an invasion. There seems to have been some kind of media release saying the US had specific knowledge that Putin had decided on an invasion.
Peter VE
@Major Major Major Major: Perhaps the joint military exercises the US conducts 300 miles from St. Petersburg has something to do with it.
Brachiator
@Gin & Tonic:
Odd. I tried to be clear about rumors of war and the weird Putin worship and war scare punditry.
I have a hot notification of a Guardian story claiming that “the US believes that Putin has decided to invade Ukraine, Joe Biden tells NATO leaders.”
What, if anything, do you make of this?
JPL
@Gin & Tonic: Please keep us informed on what you’re hearing from your friends and relatives.
SpaceUnit
This was always going to be a joint operation between the Russian military and America’s wanker media.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic: What did I say that was so offensive???
Roger Moore
@Chris:
I think it’s reasonably smart to release information on Russian disinformation intended to justify a war before Russia has a chance to use it. Describing it in advance proves that it is disinformation, which does a lot to defang it.
RepubAnon
@trollhattan: Maybe Purim is a Laurel and Hardy fan:
”Now LOOK what YOU made me do!”
Baud
@RepubAnon:
That’s a standard tactic in every right-winger’s playbook.
Geminid
@zhena gogolia: A couple bours ago the Times of Israel reported that Israel is bringing out staff and families from their embassy in Kyiv. Less than ten diplomats will remain. An unnamed Israeli official was quoted as saying that joint Russian and Belorussian military maneuvers were a concern because they could quickly convert to an invasion.
UncleEbeneezer
Since this is Open Thread, I mentioned a ways back that I have a septoplasty/turbinate reduction surgery planned (2/21) and a commenter here that I can’t remember, chimed in since she (I think) had had it. Just curious to hear about the recovery process since reading accounts on Reddit is now scaring me. Like Yelp, it’s all either 1.) OMG best thing ever or 2.) OMG this ruined my life! My surgeon told me it would be an uncomfortable 2-3 days due to swelling and the nasal stents creating pressure, with non-stop drainage/drip, but that after that swelling usually goes down. My deviated septum has really messed with my sleep and quality of life for years, so I’m 99% sure I’m gonna go ahead with it, but I am getting leery of the thought of having to mouth-breathe for the 2-3 days after the surgery.
Geminid
Major Major Major Major
@Peter VE: So NATO is a useful tool for keeping the peace, in other words.
Redshift
@Gin & Tonic:
Have you read the actual State Department warning rather than just the headlines about it? It appears to say pretty much what you suggest, not, “the sky is falling” or that war is definitely happening:
Etc.
catclub
@Cermet:
That’s a pretty big corner.
Ruckus
@Gin & Tonic:
I can see a point to it, if Russia does invade Ukraine and does start randomly shooting people – which doesn’t seem massively out of line for vlad – would the US feel obligated to go in and rescue them, which of course would therefore be a war with Russia?
Not saying this is what’s happening, just that it might be the thought process in DC and if all the people left that might want to then DC wouldn’t have to take any steps to rescue those that don’t want to leave. In line with this, I’d ask is the substance of those phone calls more than just get out? IOW is the president just trying to get out ahead of where he feels he’d have to go if vlad took the big step?
zhena gogolia
@Redshift: He’s gone because of something I said that apparently was horribly offensive.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Cermet: The bit of the GW Bush admin policy I recall was making a hash out of Georgia by lying to the Georgians the US had their backs against Russia, until the Russians invaded.
Chris
@zhena gogolia:
Whatever you said, thanks.
JPL
@zhena gogolia: IMO It was NOT you, but the direction the conversation was going in.
edited
Brachiator
@zhena gogolia:
Lot of folk on the edge today.
The Thin Black Duke
The Usual Suspects in the Media want a war because 1) they get to pretend they’re the spiritual descendants of Howie Pyle who are bravely risking their lives to broadcast The Truth and 2) maybe this will be the scandal that will finally bring that sumbitch Biden down.
UncleEbeneezer
If war broke out and US ex-pats got killed, I GUARAN-FUCKING-TEE that Taibi, Tracey, Snowden etc., would be the first to pen screeds about “Why Didn’t Biden Admin Warn Americans??!!!”
PaulB
Our trolls clearly are not bringing their “A” game. I don’t know which is worse: that we might have someone dumb enough to believe this obvious (and ridiculous) propaganda or that he thinks that we’re dumb enough to believe it.
I’m not going to bother replying to this idiot as there’s obviously no point. I will give him a tip, though: if you want to move up in the ranks so that you can have more fun with the big league trolls and marks on Facebook, you need to up your game. Because what you’re doing now is just too obvious and too dumb.
Major Major Major Major
@The Thin Black Duke: Genuine question, who in the media is pushing for a war here?
mrmoshpotato
@Cermet: Oh Vlad! I would say welcome to this top 10,000 blog, but fuck you, you election-interfering little shit!
Splitting Image
Somewhat tangential to the question of what might happen in Ukraine, can we put an end to the practice of describing people like Michael Tracey and Matt Taibbi as “leftists”?
Tracey in particular is a leftist in the same way that Susan Collins is a “moderate”. Years and years of voting in lockstep with Mitch McConnell, and still she wears the mantle of a “Senate moderate”. At this point I’d be less shocked to see Collins support a Democratic bill than Tracey or Taibbi espouse support for a liberal cause.
Chris
@PaulB:
To be fair, political trolling doesn’t have to be smart. It just has to blanket the airwaves with the same few drumbeat messages. See also Fox News and the like.
Baud
OT. Hillary Clinton agrees that the NYT is garbage. (retweeted by Hillary)
SpaceUnit
@The Thin Black Duke:
Yeah. I think it’s mostly number 2.
I watched a little of the press conference and for the most part it was pretty straightforward. But I wish that they’d put up graphics on the screen to identify the reporters, just so you could see who was throwing out the really slanted questions.
By the time this all plays out Fox News will have made Putin their presumptive nominee for 2024. Traitors, all of them.
Baud
@Splitting Image:
What would you classify them as if not leftists? Do genuine leftists reject them?
Chris
@Splitting Image:
There’s a critique I read a while ago about both crime fiction and actual police statements and belief. The point was that as far as both are concerned, there are people who are just “criminals,” and there are people who just aren’t, and the difference between the two has very little to do with whether they’re actually committing crimes.
Strikes me that this kind of thing increasingly applies to words like “moderates” and “leftists,” too.
Josie
@JPL:
“IMO It was you” Did you mean “wasn’t you”?
By the way, I agree with you.
Ohio Mom
@UncleEbeneezer: I hear you, I don’t like mouth-breathing either. Maybe they can give you something like Xanax so you won’t care? Worth asking about.
I wonder if that is the surgery an old acquaintance had, 30 or so years ago, to put an end to her chronic sinus infections. She was happy with the results but I wasn’t close enough to her to be privy to the recovery process.
Wishing you a speedy, uneventful, total recovery.
Major Major Major Major
@Splitting Image: The only things necessary to be considered a leftist on twitter are 1) blaming Democrats for everything and 2) not being a registered Republican
Brachiator
@The Thin Black Duke:
If there was a conflict, these clowns would be further away from any hot zone than a China Olympics network correspondent.
Ain’t that the truth.
trollhattan
@Splitting Image:
All I know of Tracey is from embedded Tweets posted here and elsewhere, which have been 100% doctrinaire Republican contrarianism. I assume that is who he is and don’t give it any further consideration.
Taibbi is a libertarian arsonist who once had dreams of being the next HST but has slid back down to small l libertarian.
With either, if a Democrat did a thing that thing is wrong.
No reclassifying is needed, just mockery of those who try the slight-of-hand.
Ohio Mom
@Ruckus: Especially after the exit from Afghanistan. In my amateur opinion, that was done with great finesse but as we all know, there’s lots of popular opinion out there that we left people behind unnecessarily, that the entire operation was a disorganized mess.
That’s all Biden needs, another event where it can be spun that he left people behind, just like the last time.
Alison Rose
AN IMAGE I DID NOT NEED IN MY HEAD
Brachiator
@Baud:
This is a cosmically stupid thing for the NY Times to do.
dexwood
@The Thin Black Duke: Gentle correction: Ernie Pyle. I visit the Ernie Pyle library in Albuquerque from time to time.
JPL
@Josie: omg Yes that’s what I meant. No longer am I able to do two things at once. Not even sure, I can do one thing..
Kalakal
@zhena gogolia: You’re right. I’ve had it with this RT bullshit.
Martin
So, my son got the ‘rona. He’s vaccinated but not boosted. The needle phobia can be overcome, but only so much. He indicated he needed help, so I drove up to him last night (it’s about 6 hours but an easy drive) and am now in full nurse Betty mode. He’s relatively new to the area, and has no local support network. Fever and chills and alone is pretty fucking unpleasant. I can at least relieve him of the alone part.
I have a lot of nurses in my family, so I kind of show up prewired to do this just having been around them taking care of me and others. We’ve got an airlock system, good air exchange with the outdoors for his space and my space, and I’ve not removed my N95s since I arrived. Got the place cleaned up, about to do laundry. He’s miserable and feverish, but eating. So far so good. Putting my chances of getting it at 50/50. We’ll see how it goes.
But I am now fully in favor of deploying snipers to deal with the anti-vaxxers.
Roger Moore
@Chris:
Yes. Taibbi and Tracey seem to be good examples of the very online left, which doesn’t necessarily have a lot to do with actual leftists as traditionally defined. The very online left is deeply worried about economic issues that affect middle class White people, with a lesser but still substantial interest in whatever economic issue middle class White people think everyone else ought to care about. Talking to the disadvantaged people they’re supposed to be worried about doesn’t seem to be very important to them at all.
Taibbi specifically seems to be deeply compromised by the time he spent in Russia when he was younger. If 10% of the stories he told about the stuff he did in Russia are true, Russian intelligence has plenty of kompromat on him, which might explain why he always takes Putin’s side.
trollhattan
@Martin: Man, sounds rough. Here’s hoping 1. he gets back on his feet pronto and 2. vaccines do their job and you don’t get it.
Chetan Murthy
@Gin & Tonic: A metaphor: You’re on Long Island, in a house on the shore. Small town. There’s a two-lane highway to the mainland. A hurricane is coming, might hit your town, might miss. The government warns you to leave ASAP. Is that irresponsible? responsible?
Maybe it depends on the probabilities they estimate of the hurricane hitting your town.
Leaving the metaphor, the government cannot, must not reveal the data that goes into their probability estimates, nor even the magnitude of their estimate, b/c that might end up influencing Putin’s actions. So they’re left with “do we warn our citizens or not?”
And of course, regardless of what the government does, if there are any Americans left when the Russkies invade, the media will bleat non-stop. Non. Stop.
I think it’s only wise for the goverment to tell Americans to GTFO Dodge.
P.S. Snowden. Fuck. The traitor can go piss up a rope.
Scout211
@Martin:
You are a wonderful parent. He is so lucky to have you. And of course, you are lucky to have a son who will ask for help when he really needs it.
I hope he feels better soon and you don’t get it.
Chris
@Baud:
After a certain point, what’s the difference between a left-winger who opposes the left-wing party at every turn, who makes no effort whatsoever to grown a left-wing alternative to the current left, who instead constantly propagandizes on behalf of right-wing politicians to tell us that they’re not so bad and are in fact the real populists/doves/wev, who parrots right-wing talking points on everything from culture to economics to foreign policy to whether 1/6 and Russiagate actually happened, and who even when they’re given the things that they claim to want (e.g. Biden leaving Afghanistan or Obama pushing to close Gitmo) find reasons to be angry at the left-wing politicians who gave it to them anyway because they were Doing It Wrong, somehow…
… and just a right-winger?
I mean, Orson Scott Card, of all people, was still claiming to be a Democrat, last time I checked. Am I supposed to take that at face value, or look at everything he’s ever supported and opposed, and say “good one, Orson, now tell me again about that ocean-front property in Wyoming you were trying to sell me?”
Kalakal
@UncleEbeneezer: Oh, I would interested in knowing more as well. I’ve had problems with my sinuses for years due to a deviated septum, never yet plucked up the courage
NotMax
@Martin
Having an appetite a good sign.
Boop?
White?
Page?
:)
catclub
@Martin:
why were you against snipers? how about vaccination drones?
Chris
@Martin:
Ugh, I’m sorry. I hope he gets through it with minimal pain. And that you don’t catch it yourself.
danielx
OT – does anyone have any experience with dealing with viruses on an iPhone? Something has hijacked both Firefox and Safari.
eta: Norton 360 evidently does not have a scan-and-remove function for iOS devices, meaning it’s worthless for removing existing viruses. Found this out after I loaded it, naturally.
catclub
@NotMax: how about Kathy Bates from Misery? Wasn’t she a nurse, too?
Chetan Murthy
@Martin: Martin, you’re a good father. Take care of your son, and we’ll all keep our fingers crossed for you both.
Re: your last sentence: yeah, I feel you man. Yesterday I learned that I now have diabetes, new since the pandemic. If there were snipers gunning down antivaxxers, I’d enlist.
UncleEbeneezer
@Ohio Mom: Probably. And that’s what a majority (80+%) of people who get the surgery say. Really makes a world of difference.
It’s not really the mouth-breathing so much as that feeling of having both nasal passageways totally closed that I hate.
Kalakal
@Martin: I’m sorry he’s having a miserable. You’re doing a great thing with your support.
Wishing the best for you both
Brachiator
@Martin:
Best wishes to you and your son.
stacib
@jonas: THIS!
Martin
@trollhattan: Nah, it’s okay. I mean, it sucks being sick, but so long as we keep him well enough to avoid the hospital it’ll be a victory.
When the kids were little, all 4 of us got sick with something (I forget what) and my wife and I had a very serious talk about admitting the kids to the hospital because we were legitimately unsure we’d be able to care for them given how sick we were. And a number of years back my aunt caught West Nile, and by the time she called me for help, she was dangerously ill. I got her to the ER, and she spent the next month in the hospital.
If you can keep your head above water, it turns out fine. If you can’t, you’re fucked. The distance between those two states can be alarmingly small. Better to make sure someone else is there to keep you on the right side of it. I mean, I’m retired. What the fuck better thing do I have to do?
Bill Arnold
@Martin:
It’s what the heroes do in zombie apocalypse movies. In case of possible zombieSARS-CoV-2 infection, if they’re not breathing, they’re not breathing on you.
(This works better for respiratory zombie virus plagues. :-)
Martin
@catclub: I try really hard to not wish harm against my fellow humans. There are limits, though.
Major Major Major Major
@Roger Moore: This is a perfect description.
Martin
@Bill Arnold: Funnily enough, I’m currently playing one of my favorite zombie games (Project Zomboid) just to relieve some of the stress of Covid. My head canon is that we got fed up and sequestered the unvaccinated Covid folks to the part of Kentucky where the game takes place, and I’m now cleaning up the mess.
BruceFromOhio
“You provide the tweets, I’ll provide the war”
– V. Putin
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Martin: Saw your post the other day saying you might have to go up there. I’m glad he’s doing well. With that mask, you may be all right.
zhena gogolia
@Martin: Oh, I hope he feels better soon and you don’t get it.
Martin
God twitter has a way to really get to the nut of things:
Old School
@NotMax:
You should watch more movies.
Barbara
@Martin: My son was in the same boat (literally, because we had just boarded a cruise) so you would think we were all doomed to get it as well, but nope, the three of us who had been boosted did not get it and we were given three PCR tests over the course of five days. My son wasn’t eligible for a booster until just before we left, so it didn’t do him any good. He had a bad head cold and that was it.
I hope your son feels better soon and that you stay safe and well.
Baud
@Martin:
That could be a rotating tag.
Chris
@Roger Moore:
Maybe.
I’ve heard the criticism that online left-wingers care too much about e.g. student loans and not enough about less middle-class issues, but for the people we’re talking about I honestly think that if Biden signed an executive order tomorrow writing off all the student debt in America, they’d find a reason to bitch about that too, and have fifty contrarian hot takes out by the next morning explaining Why This Is Not A Good Left Wing Thing Actually. It’s how they react every time a Democrat does, well, anything.
What I think it is with this crowd is that to the extent that they were ever left-wing, they’ve completely drunk the kool aid that the psychopaths who show up at Trump rallies are The True Voice Of The Working Class, and therefore that being a good leftist requires being on their side.
(“To the extent that they were ever left wing” is doing a lot of work there, of course. The more I’ve read about Glenn Greenwald’s past going back to his days defending white supremacists in the nineties, the more I’ve come to suspect that he’s just always been a full-on neo-Nazi, who tried out various dog whistles back when that was still unacceptable, until Trump gave him what he really wanted).
Baud
@Martin:
Good dad.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@NotMax: I never got around to seeing Nurse Betty, and had long forgotten if I ever knew it was a Neil LaBute movie, which does intrigue me. Though like Carmela Soprano, I am not the biggest Renée Zellweger fan
Chetan Murthy
@Martin: Reporting from the wilds of Noe Valley, SF
My coffeeshop: the owner says that earlier today a customer came in and was all happy, saying “I’ll be able to see your face next week for the first time in 2yr!” The owner replied with “You can parade around mask-free outside this coffeeshop, but I’ve stayed infection-free for two years, and I’m not about to start taking risks next week, thanks.” She was … salty about that interaction.
Inside Whole Foods, checking out: I mentioned that next week they were removing the mask mandate in the city; my checker had heard nothing about this, and was concerned. The checker at the next spot was pretty clearly angry about it, about the risks, etc, and said “what a country we live in” or something like that.
Ah, well. What a country.
Scout211
@danielx:
Is it adware malware or a virus?
I have had the adware malware on my iPad in the past and had to remove it but it was awhile ago. Clearing the cookies fixed it once and deleting the app and then downloading the app from the App Store fixed it another time.
I don’t know about actual viruses or how to fix them but I have read that there is a malicious pop-up that tells you that you have a virus but you don’t. Be sure to google the pop-up to see if it is a fake.
Martin
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I’ve got a few boxes of 3M Aura masks, and they’re really good. Great seal and when it’s on properly no glasses fogging. The two straps hold it very well and it’s pretty comfortable. I wasn’t sure I’d be able to sleep in it, but after a bit of getting used to it I slept just fine. I’m currently working out a rig to hang them in the sun for some UV disinfecting. Apart from a few breaks to go outside to eat, I’m pretty sure I can wear this constantly the rest of the time. Really cutting into my snacking though. Hot Cheetos and good masking habits don’t mix.
Thankfully the weather is perfect. Its 80 and sunny, so having the windows wide open feels great. Unfortunately (for this purpose) he lives in the woods so finding some reliable sun exposure is proving a bit tricky.
Martin
@Baud: It really should be.
Scout211
@danielx:
@Scout211:
How to remove fake virus warning on iPhone
Jinchi
@Splitting Image: I had the same reaction. There’s a strange need to kick the left these days. It would be one thing if they actually pointed to a legitimate left winger with a solid base behind them. ( I’m not sure how Trump fanboy and regular Hannity guest Glenn Greenwald gets put in that camp.)
All the pro Russia voices these days: like Trump, Tucker and Cotton, are solid rightwingers with real political power.
Martin
@Chetan Murthy: I’m not far from you. Down in Scotts Valley.
I had dinner with my friend group wed night and we all were wondering if we’d ever be comfortable with indoor dining again. Thankfully here in CA you can pretty easily avoid it entirely.
I still show my vaccination card at every restaurant. They always tell me I don’t need to show them, and I always reply ‘yeah, I know, but I should need to.’
Lot of smoke and fire about how some people don’t want to have to show their vax status. Thought it might be good to show that there’s a population that does want to show it.
Mokum
@Cermet: What promise? Stop spreading Russian talking points. Sheesh.
Martin
It’s because kicking the right does nothing. They don’t care. Nobody cares. At least the left cares, which is why kicking them relieves some frustration. I’m guilty of it as well.
Brachiator
@Chetan Murthy:
Cool to see that some people are not just accepting that the pandemic is magically over.
Baud
@Jinchi:
FWIW, while you have a point about GG, I think the ideas put forward in the tweets in the OP are similar to tweets DSA put out a few days ago.
Barbara
@Martin: I read a suggestion in an article (probably linked by Ann Laurie!) to take 4 KN95 or comparable masks and number them 1, 2, 3 & 4, and then wear each for one day and then rest for three. Three days is enough downtime to extinguish nearly any pathogen that it might have picked up. It’s a way of extending the life of “single use” masks while still maintaining good protection.
Sure Lurkalot
@Martin: Hoping your son gets through his ‘rona infection; I’m sure it’s a great relief to have you there to help him. Best of luck to you both.
Barbara
@Baud: They were probably hoping that she would bring up the email server BS so they could yet again flog that dead horse.
Jinchi
@Martin: Hope your son gets better quickly. My vaxd high schooler brought a case home that had him and my boosted spouse laid up for about 4 days. His younger brother and I tested positive but had only very mild symptoms. Omicron is very infectious. Take care
piratedan
I’d like to take issue with the idea that Taibbi and Tracey represent “The Left”. All of their takes revolve around sniping at Dem policy and leadership and never in support of said policies and their hoped for outcomes.
Plainly put, they are proto-Greenwalds, staking out ground to continue to separate left leaning folks into their own myopic cult of self.
Chetan Murthy
@Brachiator: This coffeeshop owner in particular, has been stalwart AF. Back in May (when I went out after getting vaxxed), I asked her when she’d be back doing indoor service, and she said “I know how poor the ventilation is in the place, and I won’t be taking that risk for either me or my customers until the pandemic is actually over”. In early December when i went by (before going back into isolation) she was sitting outside-in-front, and when I mentioned this, she told me about all the letters she’d get from friends warning her to not take any risks, b/c this was really bad. So she would sit outside unless she were actually serving someone. She also told me that in the previous week, she’d literally had zero business.
I really appreciate that she’s doing this, and would hope that business owners like her prosper while the bastards who DGAF about covid crater and close. So I make sure to overpay by a fuckton when I can visit. B/c I’m sure she needs the $$, and jesus, if you can’t reward actually doing your civic duty, then what’s the point?
Baud
@Barbara:
She did (or her office did). You should click in the link.
Martin
@Mokum: Yeah, there wasn’t a promise. There was a bit of agreement within the US foreign policy sphere that bringing Ukraine in would do more harm than good.
I don’t think that view was wrong, but I also think that Ukraine deserves some agency in this, and if they wanted to join, we should suck up the pain of it. And NATO did say that Ukraine would someday be a member, so in a sense, that die was cast at that point.
The fundamental problem is that of policy making. I had a standard warning to my leadership – do not implement a policy you are unwilling to enforce. And that’s the real challenge with Ukraine. If you bring them in, and then aren’t willing to enforce Section 5, then Section 5 becomes meaningless, and therefore NATO becomes meaningless. And that’s the point we’re at now.
It’s why the ‘but if we don’t do anything we’ll look weak’ argument does have a little bit of validity to it (though not in the context that it’s ever trotted out). If you give Ukraine Section 5 protection, you better fucking show up when it’s invoked, otherwise everyone loses Section 5 protection. And of course, this is part of Putin’s calculations. Invading Ukraine doesn’t just get him Ukraine, it also reveals NATO to be something of a sham. Sure, we can level some really, really painful sanctions against Russia, but that doesn’t get Ukraine back, which is all that really matters if you are Ukrainian.
different-church-lady
@Major Major Major Major: Are you sure about the second thing?
Brachiator
@Martin:
This should be great for your son.
BTW, I don’t know what official city and county policy is, but I guess that with the warm temperature, the Super Bowl will be pretty much mask free.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cermet: No, Comrade Tankie. No.
jimmiraybob
Speaking of calling to the useful idiots, is anybody covering Thomas Massie’s (R-KY) proclamation that, “If 30 to 40 percent could agree that this [the results of a fair and free election] was legitimate tyranny and it needed to be thrown off they need to have sufficient power without asking for extra permission – it should be right there and completely available to them in their living room in order to effect the change.” [video posted by Right Wing Watch.]
Combined with the RNC declaration that January 6th was “legitimate political discourse,” and what we have here is a justification of and a concerted call to arms.
I’m pretty sure that everyone here knows that heavily-armed right-wing militias, neo-Fascists, neo-Nazis, as well as plain old right-wing anti-government and white supremacist groups are chomping at the bit. Not to mention the Tim McVeighs of the world. People are going to get killed. Quite possibly lots of people.
Possibly asking for a friend.
CaseyL
@Martin: Eek, and yikes!
Adding my best wishes that it turns out to be a very mild case, and that you don’t get it at all.
Agree. Totally. Would be interesting to try using the self-defense laws at trial, like shooting a rabid dog.
Sure Lurkalot
@Chetan Murthy: I went “in store” grocery shopping yesterday for the 1st time since before Xmas. We had a citywide mask mandate that our genius mayor ended February 3.
While most of the occupants were masked, I’d say about 25% were not and I have zero doubts that number will increase over time. I have nothing but sympathy for the workers, though truth be told, there are some of them who will follow the trend and ditch the mask.
I have some 3M Aura N-95’s and certified KN-95’s. They fit my spouse just fine but they are too big for me. I had been using homemade masks–2 layer cotton masks with 2 layers of nonwoven “spunbound” in between and a great fit. I’m stuck with putting one of those over the Aura, which fits better than the KN-95’s. If anyone has found an N-95 level mask for a smaller adult face, I’m all ears!
Ruviana
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I was wondering why it wasn’t “Nurse Jackie” which starred Edie Falco, bringing this discussion full circle.
Martin
@Brachiator: Doesn’t matter what the policy is, nobody will follow it. They paid 10 grand to be there. They’re gonna rock out with their cock out.
Roger Moore
@Chris:
There is definitely a group of leftists who see the Democratic Party as the enemy. See, if they could get rid of those filthy Democrats, there would be no competition for left of center voters, and they could implement all their great left wing plans. It can be very hard to tell them from straight-up right wingers, since so many of their ideas seem to start with letting the right wing do as it pleases, ostensibly to convince people of the need for left wing solutions.
Ruckus
@Martin:
But I am now fully in favor of deploying snipers to deal with the anti-vaxxers.
I like the way you think.
Unique uid
I was just reading the Windsor Star paper, there is an injunction against the protesters at the Ambassador bridge now. They are being warned that tickets and arrests are taking place now, maybe that will get things moving by next week.
I had a J&J study appointment at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit about ten months ago. It turned out the lead nurse/researcher there lived in Windsor. She said there were a few dozen hospital employees from Windsor. I asked how it was commuting across the border, she said usually not too bad. But she was also looking at her phone that day, seemed like something was up that might delay things. I’m sure this week has been trying for border commuters, the tunnel must be backlogged if the bridge is closed.
Oh, several commenters earlier were asking about “just towing the damn trucks”. From reading, this is slightly problematic. Lots of heavy duty tow trucks, but those companies are fearful of being labeled traitors by the protesters and suffering in the future. There was a comment that the city of Ottawa *might* be able to come up with two big rigs that could work on it. One of the tow companies said it took them ~24 hours to clear an expressway that had maybe dozen trucks involved, and that was with the cooperation of the truckers. He thought it might take a full week to clear Ottawa, even longer if there was the fear of violence.
Turns out that if you lock the air brakes on a truck, every wheel’s brake is locked. Without driver cooperation, you have to individually work on each wheel to release it. Or hook up a air compressor from the tow truck to the semi and release them with that – sounded like a multiple hour process.
The only good news about the Ambassador bridge shutdown is that Matty Maroun (private owner of the VIP cross border trade route!) isn’t getting a dime in bridge fares for a while. Everybody I know that knows his story seems to hate him.
Finally, I was trying to see how long the delay was from Port Huron to Sarnia. Google Maps just becomes more and more hilarious. It said the trip from my house to Sarnia was about an hour, but then there was an warning that bridge delays might add 90 minutes. But it showed an alternate route, a ferry to Walpole Island (free!). I didn’t realize there was a ferry there, interesting. But I looked at their webpage and they have been shutdown for over two months. And it costs $12 for a car.
Martin
@NotMax: It’s actually Nurse Maria (my grandmother) in my head, but ‘Betty’ just felt right. Actually Nurse Pieter is the next intuitive name, he’s my colorblind polish friend who taught me how to throw boomerangs. Good nurse.
Kalakal
@Barbara: That’s what I’ve been doing for about a year now
Martin
@Unique uid: I saw that Biden was offering Canada with help with the trucker situation and immediately thought that an airstrike would sort it out pretty quickly.
Chetan Murthy
@Unique uid: I read your comment with great interest. On the one hand, I feel like “jesus, can’t they just bring in the trucks they use to pull out broken tanks?” On the other hand, I feel like “we’re fucked b/c the organization we set up to solve problems bigger than each of us individually, turns out to be incapable of doing that very thing”.
Your description of the tow-truck companies not being willing to tow the trucks, seems easy-to-solve: just grant ownership of the machine to the first company that tows it. But again, it’s all a giant mess, b/c we live in fallen times, surrounded by fallen countrymen.
Brachiator
@Chetan Murthy:
The owner of one coffee shop near me has complained about county regulations, but has been scrupulous about observing them. When he set up for outdoor dining, I started regularly eating there again.
The majority of his regular customers applaud his efforts.
Another restaurant owner complained bitterly and did things that I felt put customers at risk. An outdoor setup with seats too close together and walled off on three sides. Many of his customers don’t care.
You could not get me to eat there for free.
Baud
@Unique uid:
Airlift the trucks out with a Chinook and drop them in the lake.
Baud
@Chetan Murthy:
Law of salvage.
dmsilev
Today in “adventures in idiocy”. I received the following email from the organizer of a conference I’m attending (in person) next month:
Said “suspect” email looked for all the world like a low-grade phishing attempt: one line of text, a remarkably generic return address, and a link to some monstrously-obfuscated URL. And I’m supposed to click that link and submit a bunch of personal medical information? Apparently so.
(Conference is requiring vaccine including booster, a negative PCR test within three days of the start, N95 or equivalent masks, and probably some other things I’m forgetting. Policies are fine. It’s the implementation that has …concerns)
frosty
@Martin: I have a son at home vaxxed and not boosted; I don’t exactly know why. He says he’s waiting for an Omicron-specific one. We’ve had a couple of conversations and couldn’t sway him.
Anyhoo, we’re on the road in Florida and I worry about him coming down with ‘rona. He’s in a better situation than yours; he assured us he has lots of friends he can call on, including one who’s wife is a nurse. So I’m not worried, really, just *concerned*.
If he ends up in a hospital one or both of us will be on an airplane.
Bill Arnold
@Barbara:
Some N96/KN95 masks have much longer-lasting straps than others. Rubber band straps break pretty quickly. I basically reuse them until a band breaks, or they are too dirty, or they feel like they are leaking unfiltered air on inhalation. Only go out (for shopping) every couple of days, though.
zhena gogolia
@dmsilev: That is annoying. But I’m glad they have good policies in place!
audax major
@The Thin Black Duke: Ernie Pyle
dmsilev
@zhena gogolia: Yeah, and they also have a remote option for people who can’t or don’t want to travel. Which means that the talks are going to suck even more than usual, but honestly that’s not why I’m going. I have a bunch of vendors and colleagues that I need to talk with, and it’s a lot better to do that in person (much more productive, good for building personal relationships, that sort of thing).
Brachiator
@Martin:
Ha! Probably so. But the warm weather will make it easier for those at the game to give up the masks. I think they have to at least show up with one to get into the stadium.
And the TV audience watching the game may decide, “Yep. Pandemic over!”
frosty
@Baud:
@Martin:
Nominated!
WaterGirl
@Cermet:
You keep saying that but others refute it and say that isn’t so. Can you please provide your source for that? Otherwise, in the absence of that, it looks like you are repeatedly saying something that is not true.
Jackie
@UncleEbeneezer: My daughter had that surgery about 5 years ago. After the swelling went down and the drainage yuk stopped, her misery ended for good! (As of today ?)
Starboard Tack
@The Thin Black Duke: Not even Gomer Pyle.
Tony Jay
@Baud:
I’m a genuwine lefty leftist of the Left and I’d call them both pricks.
Given how often everyone here notes how nearly impossible it is to get anything other than the latest Rightwing boilerplate covered in the News Media, why on earth would that suddenly change for these specific “voices of the Left”?
For my money, contrariactors like the ones mentioned above get mainstreamed precisely because they’re about as genuinely Lefty as, say, the Guardian. They get their nutrients from the same sources as their Righty ‘enemies’, they just occupy a different ecological niche.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Jake Sullivan clip on span
I am about to listen and will soon have your answer. Transcript from me, not an official source:
next
Note from WG: this appears to be exactly what Jen Psaki has been saying for days/weeks.
frosty
@Martin: I’ve been watching NFL all season, including the playoffs. No masks in any stadium that I could see (well, except in Green Bay in sub-freezing weather). No super-spreader outbreaks in the news. I don’t know why, maybe being outside is all you need?
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: Do you not think the Americans in Ukraine don’t know exactly what Jake Sullivan means when he says they should leave?
Chetan Murthy
@WaterGirl: We’ve even had recent experience with the State Department telling Americans to GFTO of a soon-to-be-war-zone, and those Americans ignoring that advice FOR MONTHS, right? And then expecting to be rescued. So it seems only wise for State to start warning Americans that There. Will. Be. No. Rescue. so they need to GTFO now, now, NOW.
How anybody could see this as ….. irresponsible, rather than very, very responsible, is beyond me.
Bill
@WaterGirl: here is an even-handed scholarly discussion of that question. It’s a little more complicated than the comments we’ve seen here so far.
Dan B
@Chetan Murthy: You survived Covid but not all of you survived. There is good reason to feel furious anger at the science deniers who robbed you, indirectly, of your health. Individual stories like yours have more power even than numbers like 900,000 dead.
WaterGirl
@JPL: I was sure from the context what you had intended, but edited it just now for you for the record so zhena doesn’t have to wonder. I can change it back if you like.
WaterGirl
@Martin: Thanks for the update, Martin. I saw you mention that yesterday but I was too late to respond. It’s really good of you to do this and I’m sure he appreciates. it.
I have 3 friends whose spouses got it but they did not, even thought they were taking care of the covid spouse in the same house. They were Very careful.
My sister’s husband got covid and she was not careful for the first day, even after he was really sick and was just waiting for test results. She got it within a couple of days.
it’s do-able, and I hope you land with the careful folks who never got covid from their spouses.
Dan B
@Martin: We have identical 3M Aura masks. The foam around the nose is great for getting a tight seal and when it was in the 30’s and 40’s in Seattle, preventing glasses fogging. I have had fatigue, sore throat, and a number of very mild symptoms and went for a test at a big facility – 20 people testing. Everyone was wearing the same masks! They are easy to breathe in. Now to hope I just had a mild 24 hour bug.
eachother
Speaking of needles, I hear a lot about the call for blood. I am a universal donor and somehow I don’t have particular antibodies that cause trouble in infants receiving blood. So my blood is goody good blood.
This isn’t about the really awful last two times I have donated and the damage to my arms amateur practitioners have done. But rather about not being able to donate in the first place. Considering the urgency of the need, I have been unable to give the gift away. There are no openings out to April for an appointment anywhere near me. I have made my calls and received apologies in recognition of the incongruity of this national and personal predicament.
WaterGirl
@Martin: I just added that as a rotating tag.
Chetan Murthy
@Dan B: @Martin: Dan, Martin, could you tell me the model # of those masks? I see there are a number of different ones: 8210 8210 Plus 9205+ .
And if possible, where you purchased them?
WaterGirl
@frosty: I haven’t seen the nomination yet, but I did add it.
CROAKER
Look please stops with COCKS … its disrespectful
Thanks
I am not a troll. I am human being. Friend. Not robot.
Dan B
@Chetan Murthy: 9205
AURA Respirator 9205+
Scout211
@Chetan Murthy:
Home Depot often has them in stock. (The 3m aura and others) Check your local warehouse for stock on hand before you go there. They are sometimes out of stock.
The free N95 masks that are available at pharmacies under the federal plan are another option. I am not sure how many are allowed but you can at least get one for free.
Free N95 masks
Martin
@frosty: I don’t think so. Omicron is so infectious that the public health community have largely said ‘fuck it’ trying to track. I do know of two cases that were tracked that show Omicron’s infectivity:
One was two people that passed in the stands at a soccer match in Europe. One was going to the concessions as one was returning. One caught it passing the other, outside.
The other case was 3 people in a hotel who caught it from another. They never came in contact with each other but they were across the hall from each other and there was a 4 second period when both doors were open.
Basically, it’s getting hit by lightning. The odds of getting it from such an incidental encounter is probably low, but it ain’t zero.
Martin
@Chetan Murthy: Yeah, 9205. You can get them at Amazon, HD, etc. Ours were from Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Aura-Particulate-Respirator-9205/dp/B095FJ36H2?th=1
Martin
@WaterGirl: Credit to God on that one.
https://twitter.com/thetweetofgod/status/664508269830893568?lang=en
Major Major Major Major
@Martin: meanwhile a couple dozen of my friends went on a cruise and only like five caught it.
Roger Moore
@frosty:
Or maybe the media has just given up on mentioning superspreader events because they’re too common to note.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
The Intercept’s chief Tara Reade correspondent weighs in
(in fairness, in context, the 1971 appears to be a typo– this guy’s brain is still broke by whatever they put in the water cooler at The Intercept)
Darkrose
@different-church-lady: Pick your poison; Instagram is owned by Facebook, so it’s part of the Zuckerverse.
Darkrose
@Gin & Tonic: If I had to guess, telling Americans in Ukraine to leave is because the PTB remember 1978, when Americans in Iran were told that the disturbances would blow over (because the Shah would dispatch the secret police to make sure) and that it was safe to stay.
Another Scott
@Roger Moore:
Defense.gov from 4 hours ago:
The last news conference I saw with the SecDef (a week or more ago), he explicitly said that he didn’t think Putin had decided to invade (again) and that they were still supporting a diplomatic process.
I don’t see language like that in this readout.
Take that however you want. (I have no inside knowledge.)
:-(
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@Martin: Nice to know the origin, but on rotating tags there’s no room to give credit. :-)
Dopey-o
i had been thinking Putin wanted to install a puppet in Kyiv, and the troops were massed to destabilize the Ukrainian government and to intimidate the populace.
but now it appears that Russian troops can reach Kyiv within 2 or 3 hours. Tanks and troops in the capital would be hard to dislodge, and Putin would win, just by standing pat.
please tell me I’m wrong.
JAFD
@SpaceUnit:
ISTR that in the days of Eisenhower, when reporters were called on at press conferences, they’d state their name and employer – Joe Boggs, Philadelphia Public Ledger, “Mr President, …”
But I could be wrong. It’s been a while…
JAFD
@Martin:
Sending you some encouragement and moral support. Hoping your son gets better soon.
J R in WV
@Peter VE:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t St Petersburg on the very edge of Russia? On the edge of international water, as well? Said international water surrounded by some NATO members and other allied nations like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, etc, etc ??
Doesn’t Russia conduct military operations next to NATO members like Turkey and Greece and Britain?
So, I’m thinking you are A) full of shit B) employed at least part time by the GRU in St Pete, C) looking for work with the GRU in St Pete.
Also doomed to spend the rest of my life in my pie safe where I don’t have to see you ever again…
brantl
@Cermet: Keep believing that silly shit.
brantl
@Chris: I’m “Anti-war Left” as much as anybody, and I don’t buy it.
Constance Reader
In re: Edward Snowden’s comment, there’s actually plenty of substance there. When you consider that the Spanish-American War very likely wouldn’t have happened if William Randolph Hearst hadn’t injected himself into the question…
Major Major Major Major
@Constance Reader: who in the media is cheering for war with Ukraine? Does Snowden not know what it looks like? Was he sentient in 2002?