Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

The next time the wall wtreet journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

After roe, women are no longer free.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

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This blog will pay for itself.

“But what about the lurkers?”

You are here: Home / Music / Monday Morning Open Thread: Last-Minute Holiday Reminder

Monday Morning Open Thread: Last-Minute Holiday Reminder

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Too late to book a romantic Michelin dinner with specially-bred Valentine’s Day oysters, but if you’re in a relationship, you can probably figure out something personally meaningful from the local GrubHub / DoorDash/ etc. meal delivery menu. Or at least earn a chance to convince your romantic partner that you tried.

Speaking of personally meaningful… I’m not into rap music (or football, for that matter), but last night’s big SuperBowl Halftime Show seems to have been popular with the target demographic: people with money to spare, who are now edging into middle age, not always without some regrets.

The AP reviewer called it ‘epic‘, and the Washington Post produced a suitably wonky explainer.

Reader Interactions

244Comments

  4. 4.

    NotMax

    F-R-E-E-D.

    Police rescued an 80-year-old suburban Chicago woman who was held hostage in her home for nearly 21 hours by a naked man with scissors, and officers checked on the woman in part because she couldn’t text one of her daughters her daily Wordle score during the ordeal. Source

  5. 5.

    Betty Cracker

    I loathe rap and most hip-hop, so of course I thought the halftime show sucked, with the exception of MJ Blige. That said, “sexual anarchy,” really? I must have been restocking chips when that happened.

  6. 6.

    Kay

    Charlie [email protected]
    The NFL is now the league of sexual anarchy. This halftime show should not be allowed on television.

    Yet, they all worship the “grab em by the pussy” former (*one term) President

  7. 7.

    Raven

    We had one couple over for the game so I gave the princess her roses yesterday. Kroger had a bunch on football related valentines but I stuck with the regular goo-goo.

     

    having Eminem kneel when they told him not to was great and they had all Chevys on the stage so they know what time it is!

  10. 10.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    We went to a Super Bowl party here because they were serving free chili, sandwiches, chips, and beer. A bunch of our neighbors stood and put their hands over their hearts while “America the Beautiful” was sung. Our table of secret cabal Democrats did stand for the actual national anthem. We felt taking a knee would be poorly received.

    So…LA won?

  14. 14.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Or at least earn a chance to convince your romantic partner that you tried.

    My wife knows better.

  17. 17.

    Betty Cracker

    There was ubiquitous crotch-grabbing during the halftime show — is that what Kirk is going on about? But that’s so mid-80s! Kirk wasn’t even born then, I don’t think.

  19. 19.

    Baud

    While I don’t waste many neurons trying to understand right wingers, i don’t understand what was sexual about the half time show.  I would have thought the right would focus more on race baiting.

  28. 28.

    SFAW

    Not a sooper rap/hip-hop fan, but the show was pretty good. Maybe a little over-produced? But definitely well done.

  38. 38.

    Soprano2

    @Betty Cracker: Glad to hear I’m not the only one! I can appreciate that rap and hip-hop are art forms, but that doesn’t mean I have to personally like them. Mary J. Blige was the only one who actually sang, and I enjoyed her performance. I don’t begrudge anyone who loved it, but as I often say to hubby “I wasn’t the target audience for that.” I saw a lot of 40 to 50 year olds in the pub enjoying it, though.

  42. 42.

    Another Scott

    @oldgold: +1

    The RWNJs like Kirk are 100% predictable – he could have written that a week ago (and maybe he did).  I don’t know why good people are retweeting him.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  45. 45.

    Starfish

    These are musicians in their late 40s to mid-50s, and they were able to perform for a massive audience. The stage and the lighting and design work that went into this were amazing.

    This music was from the time before wrappers began to mumble and autotune everything.

    All those supporting young dancers and musicians were able to do a job after a couple of years when it has been really hard for people working in these fields.

  46. 46.

    Geminid

    Primary season is cranking up. Early voting in Texas begins today for the March 1 primaries. The 28h Congressional District contest between Jessica Cisneros and incumbent Henry Cuellar will be much watched; Cisneros came within 4 points of beating Cuellar in 2020. Her campaign was boosted this weekend when Representative Ocasio-Cortez of New York rallied with her in San Antonio.

    South Texas has traditionally been a Democratic stronghold, but recent trends give Republicans hope they can capture this seat and they have multiple candidates in their primary.

  47. 47.

    mali muso

    Did not watch the game as we don’t have TV at home (cord cutters!) and I have a 5 year old to occupy, but according to the buzz on my FB feed, my age group (40s) totally loved the half-time show.  I’m just here for the gratuitous RW spluttering outrage.

  51. 51.

    Soprano2

    @bluegirlfromwyo: It was 18 years ago in 2004, he would have been 10 so yes he is old enough to remember it. He’s an idiot. They love their serial sexual harasser/pussy grabber, but can’t stand it when some rappers grab their crotch a few times on TV. *rolleyes

  52. 52.

    Hoodie

    Not all that surprising, the production was well conceived and executed.  Was a bit weird seeing that a lot of these performers are over 50.  Are these folks going to be like the Stones and hang around forever?   I’m not much on Snoop Dogg and 50-cent, too many beer commercials, misogyny and questionable political choices.   Lamar’s act  was the most interesting.  The commercials this year were definitely better, except for the proliferation of crypto con artists.  Pretty good game, but some shaky officiating that tended to cancel out but still could have done without  it.   Aaron Donald is a freak.

  53. 53.

    Mousebumples

    Wisconsin primaries (eg for mayor, school board, etc.) are tomorrow, for the April election. US senate primary is in like August.

    We delivered our mail ballots last week. No drop box, but the office opened at 7am, so we did the before work dropoff. Not as nice as the drop box option, but workable.

  54. 54.

    NotMax

    Heh.

    A Plumber Has a Simple Message for Donald Trump About Flushing Sensitive Documents Down the Toilet
    [snip]
    …Actually, my initial reaction was that that was something exactly like what a kid would do. If you want to hide the report card or hide a detention note, you would flush it down the toilet. It’s not only shortsighted, but it’s not going to work. It’s gonna be found out almost immediately.
    [snip]
    You’ve mentioned a lot of these flushing scenarios have involved kids. Have you ever encountered an adult who flushed something down like this?

    Absolutely not. Source

  55. 55.

    Geminid

    @NotMax: I ran across this joke on @WonderKing82’s Twitter feed:

    Teacher: “Barron, where’s your homework?”

    Barron: “My Dad ate it.”

  56. 56.

    geg6

    @Soprano2:

    Over the last few years, I have come to have an appreciation for rap and hiphop that I did not have for many, many, too many years.  I see it more as poetry, mostly.  And some of these poets are quit good.  Eminem and Mary J. are the ones of the halftime show I really admire.  I also really like Drake, Common, J. Cole, Lauren Hill, Andre 3000 and, of course, JayZ.  Hanging around college students all day for decades has opened my mind to what they do.  I’m a rock and roll girl, especially punk, so it’s not my first choice, but I do appreciate it.

  58. 58.

    geg6

    As for the Valentine’s Day thing, we did it last evening. I got super pricey prime aged filet mignons and served them with roasted asparagus, a red wine and mushroom sauce and mashed Yukon golds with butter, sour cream, garlic and chives. So delish and I had enough left over to bring to work for lunch!

  60. 60.

    zhena gogolia

    @geg6: Nowhere near as fancy, but I cooked my first meal since I broke my arm — goulash. It’ll get us through the first part of the week. My husband seems to have bought me something from the jewelry store — I’ll find out what it is when we get home tonight.

  67. 67.

    mrmoshpotato

    Charlie Kirk is 28!  28!

    He’s got a long miserable life ahead of him unless he sees a proctologist.

  69. 69.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @zhena gogolia: That someone is Robert Farley, a professor at the University of Kentucky Patterson School of Diplomacy and International Commerce. His areas of specialization are Military Diffusion, Maritime Affairs, and National Security. Presumably he’s speaking (writing) from a professional perspective, and I hope he’s right.

  71. 71.

    germy

    Imagine if the Bengals didn’t accept the final score, stormed the field, sued the NFL, and protested the 2022 NFL season calling it fraudulent.

    — Aaron Parnas (@AaronParnas) February 14, 2022

  72. 72.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @O. Felix Culpa: From Farley at LGM:

    If we manage to avoid a war by offering Putin even the mildest of face-saving concession, count it as a positive; a full-scale war of the sort that Russia is capable of unleashing upon Ukraine would be utterly dreadful. I am curious how a Russian de-escalation will play in Moscow; I was on a panel last week and one of the other panelists argued that Putin’s position in Russia is far less secure than we normally assume, and that backing down (while generally popular) would be seen as a defeat. If a war doesn’t happen there’ll undoubtedly be folks scurrying out of the woodwork to argue that the crisis was entirely manufactured by Western media. You should treat this as utter nonsense, because while Russia may or may not invade Ukraine in the next few days, there is absolutely no question that Moscow has been working hard to convince Ukraine, Europe, and the United States that is on the brink of attacking.

  73. 73.

    zhena gogolia

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    I agree with this commenter:

    What now appears to be a brilliant strategy of using information transparency to greatly reduce the chances of war (even if it might still be insufficient) is being portrayed as “failure” if Putin does not actually attack because the US would have “embarrassed” itself.

    It’s an effort to give Putin a down ramp without weakening his standing in Russia and giving the alt righters across the world an opportunity to say that Biden lost, Putin won, even though all the US has done is some timely press conferences and evacuating embassies, while Putin has stood up a vast army at the border and exposed Russia to sanctions while massively risking NordStream 2.

  74. 74.

    Geminid

    @O. Felix Culpa: Mr. Farley cited what he called “a carefully scripted” public discussion yesterday between V. Putin and Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov in which Lavrov told his boss that diplomatic discussions were still worth pursuing. This might the start of a climb down by Putin.

  75. 75.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @zhena gogolia: Yup. Akin to pandemidiots who claim that the threat wasn’t real because the prevention efforts worked.

    ETA: And of course Putin and the fascists want to put Biden in a lose-lose position. Those who are already vested in blaming Biden for everything will continue to do so.

  77. 77.

    Xavier

    I heard about the aphrodisiac qualities of oysters, so I slurped down a dozen to try it out. Only five of them worked

  80. 80.

    Mai Naem mobile

    Charlie Kirk’s from Arizona. As are Kyrsten Sinema,Paul Gosar and Meghan McCain. We apologize for inflicting these people on the rest of the country.

  81. 81.

    Emmyelle

    I don’t want to like football because I think it is needlessly complicated, also concussions. Howeve the full-on Republican racial panic is making me reconsider.

  85. 85.

    Miss Bianca

    @Geminid:

    South Texas has traditionally been a Democratic stronghold, but recent trends give Republicans hope they can capture this seat and they have multiple candidates in their primary.

    So of course, this means that it’s a *perfect* time to primary a previously safe Democratic-held seat.

    You know, I really, honestly don’t get the AOC crowd sometimes.

  86. 86.

    zhena gogolia

    I have a running joke with my husband where I share with him all the breathless coverage of J.Lo and Ben. She has a movie to promote so there’s been a lot of new content in the last few days.

    ETA: I do hope they don’t repeat the “Gigli” scenario where they break up right after the movie tanks.

  87. 87.

    Baud

    Regardless of what Putin does, I appreciate that Biden doesn’t feel the need to swing his dick to show off his machisimo.

  90. 90.

    trollhattan

    Up With People sent their regrets that they would not be able to perform a rap-centric SB halftime show and you can see now what that led to.

    OTOH, NFL w/o Republicans? Guessing that works just fine.

  93. 93.

    trollhattan

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Do I need to ed-you-cate myself as to who Charlie Kirk is? Hunch says no.

    Can somebody remind me what our fussbudgets had to say about the Janet Jackson halftime thing? Was that not the end of civilization?

  94. 94.

    Betty Cracker

    @ian: Yep. Corruption is also an issue, though nothing is proven yet. Maybe the FBI raid on Cuellar will put Cisneros over the top.

  95. 95.

    Edmund Dantes

    @JMG: The NFL lies all the time. And I do mean all the time. Even when they know their is contradicting quotes out there.

    Good example is the PSI experiment they did they would conduct and share after they went after Tom Brady for a natural phenomenon. The year of testing of PSI up and disappeared.

    there is the time Roger Goodell claimed Ray Rice said one thing to him in his discipline hearing. Then when Rice sued, the judge admonished Goodell for lying about it. Oh also happened in the Brady deflategate saga also.

    There are all kinds of these examples. So no. I don’t believe the NFL one bit.

  99. 99.

    Geminid

    @Miss Bianca: Cuellar is much resented by a lot of Democrats for his conservative views on women’s rights and gun safety legislation. So, Cisneros’ challenge is a good brand builder for the Justice Democrats. Their other targets are more sympathetic than Cuellar, and most represent solid blue districts. So you could say that Cisneros’ race is high-risk, high-reward proposition for the J.D.s. Although if Cisneros wins the primary and then goes on to lose the seat the Justice Democrats will somehow explain it away.

  100. 100.

    Brachiator

    I thought the half time show was impressive.

    It is amusing to think that rap is now nostalgic oldies music for some people.

    The RWNJs like Kirk are 100% predictable – [Kirk] could have written that a week ago (and maybe he did).

    Also could have been written when rhythm and blues and rock and roll first became popular. The music has always frightened the squares.

    Didn’t know that Kirk is apparently 28. He will disappointed all his life.

  102. 102.

    jonas

    @lowtechcyclist: ​
      When I was in college there was a student band called Think of England. I didn’t get it at the time, but years later I was like “Hah! Those clever kids…”

  103. 103.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Steeplejack (phone): Haha! I had a 6 cd changer in my trunk, definitely 1 to 2 decades beyond the halftime show demographic, not really into rap/hiphop BUT, I thought the halftime show was grand. Interesting set, well paced, toe tapping, looked like fun. Will never approach Prince but I’m not sure who could.

  105. 105.

    Brachiator

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    one of the other panelists argued that Putin’s position in Russia is far less secure than we normally assume, and that backing down (while generally popular) would be seen as a defeat. If a war doesn’t happen there’ll undoubtedly be folks scurrying out of the woodwork to argue that the crisis was entirely manufactured by Western media.

    I don’t understand the people who seem to be overly concerned with Putin’s feelings and also appear to want Russia to invade Ukraine.

    RE: He will disappointed all his life

    I’m ok with that.

    Yep.

  106. 106.

    germy

    What a coincidence.  LGM has a “Erik Visits An American Grave” about Dabbs Greer.

    He’s the character actor I mentioned a few threads ago who did multiple roles in The Rifleman.  In one episode he was a ruthless killer and in another episode he was a sad and innocent farm hand.

    At the time I couldn’t remember his name.  But I grew up seeing him in everything.  The Adventures of Superman and a bunch of westerns.

  107. 107.

    Soprano2

    @zhena gogolia: This interview with former Ukraine ambassador John Herbst on “Morning Edition” today was interesting. He seems to think that, contrary to some others’ expressed opinions, the Biden administration is actually pursuing a coherent strategy in this situation.

  109. 109.

    UncleEbeneezer

    The whole Not Liking Hip Hop thing seems like it is very much tied to Whiteness.  And I’m not even saying that to knock anyone in that camp because to some extent I’m in it too (I really like some rap/hip hop, but I only dabble and my knowledge is extremely limited and).  But where probably 75% of white people I know or hang in spaces with don’t like or “get” rap/hip-hop, I can’t think of just about ANY Black/Brown person who feels the same.  The only Black people I can think of who openly say they don’t really like it are cultural conservatives like John McWhorter, who seem to be obsessed with proximity to Whiteness and Respectability politics.  I think the fact that so many of us white people listen to rap/hip-hop and simply can’t relate to much of what we hear speaks volumes about the racial disparities in America and how restrictive Whiteness is.  So much of our cultural understanding and affinity is tied up in Whiteness which makes it very hard for us to veer too far from it.  It’s a shame because it means we miss out on alot of great art and it also definitely plays a role in frustrating efforts to create multi-racial coalitions.

    One of the things I started doing a couple years ago was going out of my way to watch more Black tv shows, movies, listen to more Black podcasts, read more Black books etc.  And while I’m still super-white (and always will be) I feel like even my modest attempts to better understand Black culture has made me much more comfortable navigating multi-racial spaces and having more meaningful friendships with people from other cultures.

  112. 112.

    Old School

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    But where probably 75% of white people I know or hang in spaces with don’t like or “get” rap/hip-hop, I can’t think of just about ANY Black/Brown person who feels the same.

    I don’t believe Bill Cosby was a big fan.

  113. 113.

    germy

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    Some of the best hip hop doesn’t get as much attention as the gangsta/heavily sexualized stuff.  Sa-Roc, for example.  She’s great, but doesn’t get as much publicity as Cardi B.  (Nothing against Cardi B, it’s just that white record executives prefer sexy stuff)

  115. 115.

    Brachiator

    Valentine’s Day related. The NPR “Marketplace Tech” podcast has a story about how romance scams are on the rise, and the tools and techniques of the romance scammers.

  117. 117.

    Soprano2

    @UncleEbeneezer: Or, maybe some of us are almost 61 and like different kinds of music. Me not liking rap or hip-hop has nothing to do with me being racist, and I really don’t like the implication that if you don’t like it that must be due to you being a white racist. I don’t like most country music, either, but I love most classical music. Some people would say that makes me a huge snob. I think we shouldn’t make assumptions about people’s other attitudes based on the music they do or don’t like. Lots and lots of younger white people like rap and hip-hop – if they didn’t, it never would have survived.

  118. 118.

    germy

    @Soprano2:

    Like Hip Hop, it seems the best Country music is the alternative Country, and it doesn’t get much airplay.

    Sturgill Simpson is talented, but I never see him on TV.

  119. 119.

    Soprano2

    @Baud: Yes, some here would. There are certainly valid criticisms of Biden’s administration, but no one seems to know what would be a better strategy in the situation with Ukraine.

  122. 122.

    Soprano2

    @germy: I hear lots of country music when we have karaoke between the singers and the videos the DJ plays. It’s amazing how much of it is centered around resentment that others are making fun of them. I also hear plenty of rap and hip-hop there and at Jazzercise. Some of it is good to Jazzercise to, but I would never just listen to it on the radio. I do love that Macklemore and Ryan Lewis song about the thrift store – that video is hilarious!

  125. 125.

    Baud

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I grew up on what would now be called classic rock, but these days, I like (or dislike) individual songs as opposed to whole genres.  (Although I don’t do much country that doesn’t have a “cross-over” style.)

  127. 127.

    CaseyL

    The halftime show did nothing for me, but then I’ve never liked rap.  Hiphop is fun to dance to, but it’s not my kind of “listening” music.  So the only thing about the show that impressed me was the staging, which was mind-boggling.  (And I do intensely dislike that male-singer-crotch-grab thing.  It was mildly amusing to see how they tried to tone that down into more of a pat than a grab.)

    A very good game otherwise, though I’m sad Cincinnati didn’t win.

  129. 129.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Baud: First the Byrds, then the Eagles made a run at rock/country crossover.  Then there is the glory that is Motown.

  130. 130.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @SFAW:

    Those are the same people who lamented player strikes, disputes with owners  and high value contracts while saying “they get way too much money for playing a game”.

    Meanwhile, it’s the players who bring the value to the enterprise. Owner management styles don’t sell fan gear, personal endorsement time or fanatic team loyalty. People aren’t clamoring for the autographs of the COOs or getting excited about touring the front offices.

  133. 133.

    lowtechcyclist

    @germy: Barenaked Ladies on the bill?

    Definitely! Shoulda thought of them.

    Wonder if BNL and the New Pornographers have ever been on the same stage!

  138. 138.

    Ruckus

    @mrmoshpotato:

    He’s got a long miserable life ahead of him unless he sees a proctologist.

    I assume you mean to remove a part of his anatomy that normally is at the top of one’s body and normally has the power to actually think.

  139. 139.

    Brachiator

    @Baud:

    I grew up on what would now be called classic rock.

    I’m so old I remember when there was no “classic rock.” It was just rock.

    Also no “classic Coke.” Just Coke.

    There will never be “classic Baud.” It’s just Baud.

  143. 143.

    Villago Delenda Est

    As I said over at Wonkette, Charlie’s face is so smol because he’s got a wowser-wanker broomstick shoved up his ass.

  144. 144.

    geg6

    @Soprano2: ​

    Oh god, I despise country music. Of all kinds. I’ll sit down for Dolly because she is a living saint, but other than that keep that shit away from my ears.
    Rap and hiphop are sometimes just awesome. A student turned me onto J. Cole and I think he’s terrific.  And I’m 63.

  145. 145.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @mrmoshpotato:

    To paraphrase a recent joke I saw:

    the last time Charlie Kirk had his name called out by a woman was when his third grade teacher yelled at him to stop fiddling with himself in class.

  148. 148.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Geminid: Justus Democrats are electoral poison except in dark blue districts. They have rebranded themselves and are calling themselves, Brand New Congress. They spend most of their time criticizing Dems. Do not want.

  154. 154.

    gvg

    @Soprano2: Yes. Not to mention Rock and before that Jazz were and are black derived. Those aren’t white music.

    I dislike most rap and hip hop that I have heard but I grew up loving rock and roll and also well aware that each generation does not care for their parents music. I always considered it a non story when I became an older generation out of step with the younger. In fact I wasn’t that in step with my peers anyway and that also was to me, a non story. Music is personal taste for the most part.

    My problems with the newer stuff may be related to some hearing issues I have always had. I really can’t make out the words. I have this problem with a lot of rock n roll but I like the tunes better. I also find the lack of syncopation or back beats makes the rap hip hop stuff seem slow and plodding to me. After a short time I am frustrated with how slow it seems to me. It’s not actually slow, it just doesn’t bounce and flow the way I happen to like. None of that matters though. I get to listen to what I like and other people pick their own. Its the people yelling at others that make different choices that are problems.

  160. 160.

    HinTN

    @Miss Bianca:

    So of course, this means that it’s a *perfect* time to primary a previously safe Democratic-held seat.

    No, Ms Cisneros ran against Mr Cuellar in 2020 and lost by 4. A rematch was inevitable and she is to his left. It’s natural for AOC to support her. The local constituency will decide by voting. Nothing wrong with that.

  162. 162.

    Geminid

    @schrodingers_cat: Brand New Congress actually preceded the Justice Democrats, but both organizations were founded by the same group of Sanders campaign alumni. Brand New Congress is active again and endorses candidates in races the J.D.s are sitting out. Pennsylvania Senate candidate Malcolm Kenyatta, for instance, is a Brand New Congress endorsee.

    Both groups are intensively researched and criticized by Twitter warriors @Liz Burgh, @Justice Dem Watch, and @LeftSplintered. They come up with some interesting information from open sources like FEC reports.

  163. 163.

    sab

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: If I took the knee, someone else in the room would have to help me get up again. Unlike Biden, who bounces up and down while communicating with his dogs

    ETA debbie beat me to it

  164. 164.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @germy:

    I’ve got a love-hate relationship with country music. Love bluegrass/newgrass, and raw rednecky stuff in country. Get cranky as shit about gun/flag/god borderline praise music. If you can sing it at white people church, I do not want. Love southern rock jam sessions (Allman Brothers, Steve Earle, Widespread Panic) for the fun of it all.

    Had some epiphanies about Lynyrd Skynyrd, which had a generally great catalogue but then piss me off with Sweet Home Alabama and the Neil Young crack (as Southern Man was a well deserved swipe at the attitudes of southern whites toward civil rights).

    And yeah, as a hire guy on the cusp of 60, I’m a relatively late arrival to Rap/Hip Hop.

  165. 165.

    geg6

    @germy:

    I know him.  Don’t like him.  I am being very truthful when I say I don’t like country music.  Of any kind.  At all.  None of it.  I’m also likely to shut off any country rock because I hate country so much.

  176. 176.

    trollhattan

    @Subsole: “This time we mean it! Hey, wait, my team made the playoffs. Whoooop, go, you fighting birds/mammals/none of the above!”

    Rinse and repeat.

    I’ve stopped watching NBA because the local team went from best to most-hopeless and remains there. With nobody specifically to root for along with my fellow city dwellers, the rest has become noise. Saves boycotting them over those asshole antivaxxers, or whichever issue du jour.

  179. 179.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @zhena gogolia: I wonder if Putin hasn’t lost a lot more that even those important issues. I have no expertise here at all, but if I were a customer nation of Russian oil/gas, I’d spend the rest of my time seriously ramping up my energy source alternatives. Putin has demonstrated (again) that he’s ruthless and violent. He will always hold me hostage if I need his petro products to get through a cold winter. I’d spend a lot of effort and treasure to become a former customer by the autumn.

  180. 180.

    Xavier

    @germy: Try Merle Haggard; Kern River, Mama’s Hungry Eyes, If We Make It Through December, Who I Am, Sing Me Back Home or many others. Not Okie From Muskogee or Fighting Side of Me, which were unfortunate.

  182. 182.

    Mo MacArbie

    @Soprano2: I don’t mean to answer for UncleEbeneezer, but I didn’t see an accusation of racism in what he wrote. He was just noticing that the people who find it necessary to declare “I don’t like hip-hop” tend to be of the paler persuasion. I don’t think there’s anything controversial about this observation.

    Speaking for myself, a white dude entering middle age, my hip-hop collection is small, old, and unsurprising. It isn’t a genre I’ve bought much of. I don’t mean to make a judgement about the music; I’m just stating the fact.

    It’s also a fact that I don’t have a lot of black friends. I don’t have a lot of friends in general, but what circles I do enter into are fairly homogenous. I think this is what UncleEbeneezer is getting at, that effort sometimes has to be made to seek out other American cultures or one can miss a lot.

    Music of any genre breaks down to the same thing: the good stuff is passed from friend to friend. The good rap, the good country, the good whatever, if your friends are into it, they’ll play you the good stuff. OK, some of your friends will have bad taste too, but that’s the only way most of us will ever know what good stuff is there. The bad stuff is all around us. It’s the lowest-common-denominator crap that mass-market money seeks to beat into our heads in heavy rotation. If that’s all I or anyone not tuned in really know of hip-hop, well, that’s just not going to be very appealing to me.

    And that’s the divide. Seeking out a wider base of social contacts can bring more varied good music into one’s life.

  184. 184.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    AOC is talking about this:

    Nine moderate House Democrats warned Speaker Nancy Pelosi they won’t vote for a budget resolution critical to passing Democrats’ $3.5 trillion social policy package unless the House first passes a Senate-approved infrastructure bill, a move that threatens to derail the party’s economic agenda. “Some have suggested that we hold off on considering the Senate infrastructure bill for months — until the reconciliation process is completed. We disagree,” the lawmakers wrote Thursday in a letter to Pelosi. “With the livelihoods of hardworking American families at stake, we simply can’t afford months of unnecessary delays and risk squandering this once-in-a-century, bipartisan infrastructure package. It’s time to get shovels in the ground and people to work.”The letter is signed by Reps. Josh Gottheimer of New Jersey, Carolyn Bourdeaux of Georgia, Filemon Vela of Texas, Jared Golden of Maine, Henry Cuellar of Texas, Vicente Gonzalez of Texas, Ed Case of Hawaii, Jim Costa of California and Kurt Schrader of Oregon.

    The House progressives position was that if they give up the leverage on infrastructure they had with the conservative Democrats, BBB would never pass and retain the child tax credit. Which is exactly what happened.

  187. 187.

    Old School

    @schrodingers_cat:

    She linked Cuellar to Manchin and said that he was to blame if the Child Tax Credit was axed

    Henry Cuellar voted for the ARP, which established the Child Tax Credit, and voted to extend it in the BBB.

    I believe her argument is that Cuellar was one of the Democrats pushing to split the BBB into multiple bills (infrastructure, etc.) and that if of it would have been kept as one big bill it would have been more likely to pass.  Not that he voted against the individual parts.

  189. 189.

    rikyrah

    @Hoodie:

     

     I’m not much on Snoop Dogg and 50-cent, too many beer commercials, misogyny and questionable political choices.   Lamar’s act  was the most interesting.

     

    I would not have put Lamar in with that group. Then again, I wouldn’t have put 50 in there either.

    Lamar, because he came after them, and 50, because he was always about a good time, and nothing ‘Messagy’ about his music. In Da Club is pure 50. That’s the extent of his talent.

    The Power Universe has been good to 50. Good and profitable.

    What fascinates me is the arc of their lives. If you had told me 25 years ago that Snoop would be a profitable partner with Martha Stewart, I would have thought that you were on drugs.

     

    Saw on Twitter someone who posted that she was in a bar with a bunch of RWingers last night, and they were all like ‘ who is Dr. Dre?’, they said mockingly.

     

    She replied

    ” The billionaire.’

    Mic drop.

    Snoop is with Martha Stewart AND owns Death Row Records. That wasn’t even conceivable when they first came out.

  190. 190.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @UncleEbeneezer: All that may well be true, but I disliked a lot of rap because it was so violently misogynistic. I know that a lot it was not, but a lot of it was back in the day (I have no idea what it’s like now, just as I don’t know anything about most music of the yutes these days). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  193. 193.

    Sure Lurkalot

    What I don’t understand are people who say they don’t like music, and I’ve met quite a few. I may say I don’t like country or metal or rap, but it’s not entirely true because I can always find a song or two or ten that I like from any genre.

  195. 195.

    laura

    Country singer Mickie Guyton’s rendition of the National Anthem was Black & Country af. I’m A-OK not being the target audience for the spectrum of hip hop and rap, and I loved the halftime show and I’m wallowing in post game twitter what with all the extreme butt hurt from the usual suspects and the boomer/gen x angle.

    For Valentine’s Day I usually make heart shaped meatloaf. But I cooked a ham and made home made mac n cheese so we’ll be revisiting that tonight. Then I’ll probably make a move on the emergency chocolate.

  196. 196.

    schrodingers_cat

    Putting the bipartisan infrastructure bill along with BBB denied Biden a victory lap in  summer when the infra bill passed the senate plus it did zero to influence Manchin.

  199. 199.

    sdhays

    @Chief Oshkosh: Russians pay a massive tax in lost opportunity for the fact that they are ruled by belligerent, unstable crooks. Being “unpredictable” makes Putin more powerful on the international stage because everyone has to pay extra attention to whatever bullshit he’s up to this week, but the effect is that a lot of places deal with Russia a lot less than they otherwise might.

    I’m surprised that dependence on Russian oil isn’t a bigger concern in Germany and elsewhere in Europe, but I guess the other options they have aren’t great. Zero-fossil fuels electricity is still quite a ways in the future.

  201. 201.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @HinTN:

    Fair enough, but “politics ain’t beanbag. “

    which doesn’t make lying about fellow Democrats, even if you don’t like them, good politics

  202. 202.

    Kay

    @Old School:

    No, they were always separate. Infrastructure was a senate bill that wouldn’t have to be passed in reconciliation because it had GOP votes. It passed 69-30.

    The House progressives wanted to go in reverse order- pass BBB with just Democrats and then force Republicans to vote yes or no on infrastructure.

  204. 204.

    Alison Rose

    @Mo MacArbie: I would add also that there’s a difference between saying “This isn’t my thing but it’s cool if it’s yours”, like folks here are doing, and the type of white person who’s all “OMG this isn’t MUSIC, they’re just TALKING and you can’t even UNDERSTAND it and this is GARBAGE and everyone KNOWS IT” – which sadly, I have heard nearly verbatim from my parents and other white folks in their age group. It’s completely fine to not be into the genre, but when people refuse to recognize that it does actually take massive skill and talent to do it well, that’s something different. Not necessarily racist, but certainly a little prejudiced and ignorant.

  206. 206.

    Cacti

    I was frankly delighted that the halftime show featured the musical genre that offends Boomers the most.

    And for the Millennial kids, no, that was not a nostalgia show for you like some on the Twitters are bizarrely trying to claim.

  207. 207.

    Kay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    It isn’t a lie. Voting to pass BBB and then threatening to withold a vote on a budget resolution necessary to passage is technically “a vote for BBB” I guess, but I think she’s more accurate than the 9 House Democrats on what actually transpired.

  209. 209.

    Cacti

    @rikyrah: The only thing I wondered about the halftime show was why 50 Cent (a New York guy), and why not Ice Cube (an indispensable L.A. rapper)?

  210. 210.

    Geminid

    @Kay: At one point Joe Biden actually backed up the Progressive Caucus on linkage. Later, the President and Speaker Pelosi decided that this leverage was no longer effective. After lobbying by them and Black Caucus Chair  Joyce Beatty, Progressive Caucus Chairman Jayapal delivered 88 out of her 94 caucus members for the Infrastructure bill. But that wasn’t because Cuellar and the other eight signers of Gottheimer’s letter twisted everyone’s arms, but because the Infrastructure bill was good legislation that a majority of Democrats wanted to pass. One can argue that we would have both bills on the books now if Ocasio-Cortez had been listened to, in which case not only Cisneros but Biden and Pelosi are to blame.

  212. 212.

    GoBlueInOak

    @UncleEbeneezer: Be prepared for a fair of White Butthurtz in the replies to this comment, but I totally agree.

    Saw some shots of the (middle aged) POC celebs in the crowd during halftime and folks were getting down.   Particularly hilarious was JLo and Batfleck.  Batfleck was just sorta nodding his head during Dre’s set, while JLo was clearly letting her inner Jenny From the Block out.    And King James was having a blast.

    And if you played close attention, Snoop snuck in a Crip Walk during the set.  Course, Snoop will Crip Walk at a Sunday brunch…

  213. 213.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    Thanks for the explanation.  FWIW, I think the tweet is misleading because I don’t think one can assume success by maintaining the linkage between the two bills.

  215. 215.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kay: the notion that infrastructure gave progressives leverage over BBB was based on the idea that Manchinema wouldn’t have been willing to let both hostages die, which I never found terribly persuasive

    and that’s an awfully deep dive into legislative weeds and counterfactuals to justify that attack on Cuellar, who from what I’m gathering from this thread has at least an even chance of being the Dem nominee in an increasingly difficult district at a time when the fight to keep the House is uphill

  216. 216.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @schrodingers_cat: Me too.  I mean, I’m a drummer, so I always loved the beats.  I’ve definitely found that the more you explore the more you will start to “get” it.  Especially if you listen to smart people discuss and analyze it.  Corey Glover, the lead singer of Living Colour (one of the bands that inspired me to pick up guitar and drums, so many years ago) was on a podcast a couple years ago and he and the host got into this long talk about Kanye and how, problematic politics aside, he totally revolutionized hip-hop/rap back in the early aughts.  Not just the musical innovations but also the perspective and boldness of rejecting alot of the toxic masculinity that was so prevalent in the 90’s.  Anyways, listening to stuff like that made me want to dig into his stuff.

    Or reading the excellent essay by Hanif Willis Abdurraquib about the cultural importance of Kendrick Lamar’s song Alright.

    Or listening to a favorite podcaster go off in depth about Outkast, A Tribe Called Quest or Jay-Z’s 4:40 album.

    All of these make me feel, as a musician, that I should be aware of these works of art and spend some time wit them.  And they often prime things so that I much better understand the the excellence of these artists/artworks, when I do.

  217. 217.

    Brachiator

    @Alison Rose:

    and the type of white person who’s all “OMG this isn’t MUSIC, they’re just TALKING and you can’t even UNDERSTAND it and this is GARBAGE and everyone KNOWS IT” – which sadly, I have heard nearly verbatim from my parents and other white folks in their age group.

    Uptight white folks. Hating “race music” since 1955.

    Preaching against rock and roll

    You just know this dude was about to bust out into some rock moves any minute.

  218. 218.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    To continue to ignore the Trump tax cuts role in all this is borderline delusional in my view. The infrastructure bill had all that support because no one has to pay for it. Theoretically. Of course, when the country isn’t so flush someone will pay for it, but it won’t be multi-millionaires, billionaires or corporations.

    They off-loaded all the costs onto BBB and then cried poverty.

    This is about taxes. It’s the money. They’ve been dancing around the Trump tax cut issue for a year. If BBB is being trimmed to fit within the Trump tax cuts they should say that.

  219. 219.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Chief Oshkosh: I hear ya.  I’ll be honest, I have a tough time with Country because I so associate it with the shitty, Republican, Real-‘Merikkkan, Southern drawl bullshit that is such a big part of it.  Even though I know that artists like Maren Morris and others totally do NOT traffic in that shit and write some really great stuff.  But I don’t explore it much because of that initial hesitation.

    It’s a real shame though because as a guitar player sometimes I come across country tunes where the guitar-playing really inspires me.  So I realize that I’m missing out because of generalizations.  And life is too short to miss out on great art so I try to push myself to seek out more.

  221. 221.

    Soprano2

    @Mo MacArbie: Perhaps you’re right, but I got a strong whiff of “if you don’t like this kind of music it’s probably because you’re racist”.  There have always been arguments that “the music I like is good music, that music the kids like is crap” no matter what generation it is. I acknowledge that rap and hip-hop are art forms that take incredible talent to do well; they just aren’t my thing. FWIW, the most complaints we get about the videos the karaoke DJ plays are the rap or hip-hop songs (I have no idea what the difference is to be honest) with nasty lyrics and almost-naked women in them. There is one black artist (sorry, I have no idea what his name is) who sings a slow song and the video is a bunch of almost-naked women dancing with black tape in the shape of an “x” on their butts. Every time it comes on I want to cringe, but of course that’s just me. We get complaints about the Justin Timberlake video with the almost-naked women, too. I had to make clear to the DJ not to play those kind of vids until after 10:30 or so, to make sure only adults were left in the place (we can have under 18 until 10:00).

  223. 223.

    GoBlueInOak

    @Brachiator: Not sure if its “rap is oldies for a certain demo now” so much as the particular hip-hop acts that peformed:  Dre is 56.  Snoop is 50.  Eminem is 49.  Hip-hop soul diva Mary J is 51.   They are all Gen Xers.

    (Kendrick Lamar, who is 34, is a Millennial act and not really an “oldies” act – but he will be soon!)

    If the show featured acts like Pop Hunna, Hotboii, Erica Banks and Che Noir it wouldn’t look like an oldies show.  But it also wouldn’t have appealed to the average age demo that can afford a SB ticket.

  224. 224.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @GoBlueInOak: Heh, I almost included “and just to be clear, I’m not saying you’re RACIST for not liking rap/hip-hop” since I’m well aware of how these sorts of comments are often misunderstood.

  225. 225.

    Brachiator

    @Kay:

    This is about taxes. It’s the money. They’ve been dancing around the Trump tax cut issue for a year. If BBB is being trimmed to fit within the Trump tax cuts they should say that.

    The BBB plan did have some increased taxes and enforcement provisions.

    The Democrats were trying to get something done which would provide relief and inject more money into the economy.

    They could not simply repeal Trump tax cuts. Or they could, but that would be irresponsible.

    The Republicans rewrote the tax code: individual, corporate, estate and trust. And they were incredibly sloppy about it.

    You could just reverse all the changes, but this would create more sloppiness.

  226. 226.

    Kay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Manchinema wouldn’t have been willing to let both hostages die,

    Never. Infrastructure was always going to have the support of the conservative Democrats and the Republicans who backed it because it is 800 billion in spending and no one pays for it. It’s free. Of course they took it. It’s Eisenhower infrastructure spending with Trump tax rates.

    The legislation resulted from months of negotiations by President Biden and a group of Democratic and Republican Senators to reach an agreement to increase spending on infrastructure without tax rate increases.

  228. 228.

    GoBlueInOak

    @UncleEbeneezer:  When Kayne’s chipmunk soul “College Dropout” album first dropped, it was like nearly nothing else on the rap/R&B end of the radio dial.  Was so good.  Feels like ages ago (cuz it was) that he dropped those first several albums that were just loaded with hits.   And before he had morphed into whatever the hell happened to him.

  231. 231.

    Kay

    @Brachiator:

    To be sure, the final bill is far less than what the White House initially sought. And lawmakers jettisoned some of Biden’s plans to pay for the package, which he initially had hoped to finance through tax increases on wealthy Americans and corporations — unwinding the tax cuts enacted under Trump in 2017. Instead, Congress relied on a pastiche of mechanisms that experts predict may not raise as much as some lawmakers say, including new reporting requirements on cryptocurrency that could be subject to legal challenge.

    Democrats ran on rescinding some of the Trump tax cuts and restoring taxes on the wealthy and corporations. They didn’t do it with infrastructure so now all of that has been off-loaded to BBB.

    I just hope it doesn’t get worse. Manchin is now in charge of taxes. Good God.

  232. 232.

    Brachiator

    @GoBlueInOak:

    Not sure if its “rap is oldies for a certain demo now” so much as the particular hip-hop acts that performed.

    In a previous thread, I noted that I was talking about the half-time show, not rap and hip hop as a genre.

    Thanks for the clarification.

  233. 233.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Alison Rose: I used to hate “chick bands.”  I could spin a really long, detailed list of why one band with a woman singing lead and lyrics that center women’s perspectives just wasn’t for me.  And I would swear on a stack of bibles that there was nothing sexist about that.  Eventually I realized that YES, misogyny did play a large role in why I felt that way.  I’ve since started listening to more of the amazing art by women, to the point where now I lean that way more often than not with books, tv and films and to a lesser extent with the balance of the music I listen to.  And it’s been a move that has really enriched my life by letting me better understand and empathize with women.

    Same goes for rap/hip hop.  I definitely used to be one of those “it’s not music” assholes even though I coulda told a great story about why that wasn’t racist, even though it was.  So when Hamilton came out and I LOVED it, I naturally had to ask myself why I loved THAT version of rap/hip hop so much, but didn’t even know much of the music that it pays homage to.  So I think it’s really valuable to always ask ourselves how much isms and phobias influence our taste in art.  Both for helping us open ourselves up for stuff that may not be our natural lane and for working on the isms/phobias that we all have.

    That’s really the whole point of my comment.  Not to shame people.  But to encourage others to do some of that introspection because it can really pay off in meaningful ways.  Alot of my favorite art nowadays is stuff that def is not meant for me (from Black, women, Asian, LGBTQ perspectives) and I would have continued to ignore it had I not made an active effort.

  234. 234.

    Brachiator

    @Kay:

    Democrats ran on rescinding some of the Trump tax cuts and restoring taxes on the wealthy and corporations.

    Yes. This is what they ran on. It is easier to say “undo Trump tax cuts” than to talk in detail about what really needs to be done.

    The Republican tax bill did not simply cut corporate taxes.

  235. 235.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @GoBlueInOak: Literally listening to most of it FOR THE FIRST TIME today (I did know Two Words but nothing else) and all I can think is that that is OMG, I’M SO WHITE!!! Lol.

    I’m a freakin’ MUSICIAN and yet I didn’t even bother to check out one of the seminal albums of modern music until almost TWENTY YEARS later.  I’m not one of those people who obsesses with being up on every new thing the kids are into, but I don’t wanna continue to be THAT out of touch.  So part of remedying that is asking WHY I would be that culturally out of touch…

    Another reason I’m listening to it is because the Marsha’s Plate podcast is discussing Kanye and toxic masculinity and it reminded me that I still needed to give Kanye’s early material more of a listen, because too many people who I greatly respect consider it “genius”.

  236. 236.

    Betty Cracker

    @UncleEbeneezer: Your efforts in this thread remind me of people who try to push repellent (to the intended recipient) foods onto unreceptive acquaintances. Are you by chance a lutefisk or haggis evangelist?

  237. 237.

    NobodySpecial

    I admit to being slightly younger than most of the BJ demographic; as a teenager, being exposed to Public Enemy talking about Elvis and John Wayne was kinda eye opening, and I know there’s a lot of stuff that’s all about gangs, guns, and drugs, any misogyny. Not really my thing. But the genre is now as old as rock was when Woodstock ’99 happened.

    When I can hear hip hop artists doing everything from Greek mythology (Orpheus vs. The Sirens) to mysticism (Spirit World Field Guide) to same sex relationships (Igor, Montero), I got little time for the argument that the genre is shallow or repetitive. Like most music nowadays, the lowest common denominator gets pushed forward and you have to dig for most of the best stuff.

  238. 238.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Betty Cracker: Our tastes (what art we choose to consume and how we react to it) and our social attitudes (isms/phobias or lack thereof) are intimately connected and heavily influence each other.  In both directions.

    Exploring art from outside of our lanes changes the way we see and understand people outside of our group.  And from the other direction, seeking to better understand people outside of our group literally changes the way we react to their art.  We see, hear, feel it differently.

    This is not some new theory, it’s one of the pillars of the arguments for greater diversity/representation in every aspect of culture (arts, food etc.)

  239. 239.

    GoBlueInOak

    @UncleEbeneezer: Definitely give Late Registration, his album right after College Dropout, a listen as well.   Those two back-to-back albums straight up groove.  Lupe Fiasco combo The Cool / Lasers from same era also a good grove.

  240. 240.

    GoBlueInOak

    @NobodySpecial: Public Enemy’s It Takes A Nation of Millions is easily one of the greatest popular music albums of the 20th century.   A definitely in the running as the “greatest” hiphop album of all time (along with being an insane punk rock meets musique concrete work hiding inside a rap album).  And due to changes in copyright law (courtesy of a song by Biz Markie and one White 1970s singer/songwriter has-been named Gilbert O’Sullivan), literally unable to be made today.

    Chuck D ain’t an MC.  He’s the Voice of the Lord on Judgement Day.

  243. 243.

    Betty Cracker

    @UncleEbeneezer: I don’t disagree with that, but in this thread, you seem to take it a step further and insist that everyone has to not only be open to exploring art “outside of [their] lane” but also to personally developing an appreciation for it, or else there’s some hidden motive that they need to “do the work” to overcome. You implied it for others and then used yourself as an example, explicitly attributing nefarious motives, e.g., your own misogyny for your former lack of appreciation for “chick bands,” etc.

    Good for you, I guess? But I think you assume way too much about everyone else. Tastes vary, and that’s okay. Sure, it’s good to be open to new things, but we’re under no obligation to like every genre under the sun, no more than we’re all required to like haggis and lutefisk. We’re allowed to love classic jazz, hate smooth jazz, dislike hip-hop, hate country, find polkas irritating, etc. How is this even controversial? Personal preferences are a fundamental part of being human.

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