Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

If a good thing happens for a bad reason, it’s still a good thing.

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

These are not very smart people, and things got out of hand.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Stand up, dammit!

We can’t confuse what’s necessary to win elections with the policies that we want to implement when we do.

Trump should be leading, not lying.

Come on, man.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. ~Thomas Jefferson

Be a wild strawberry.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Dumb motherfuckers cannot understand a consequence that most 4 year olds have fully sorted out.

People identifying as christian while ignoring christ and his teachings is a strange thing indeed.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Foreign Affairs Open Thread: The Munich Security Conference

Foreign Affairs Open Thread: The Munich Security Conference

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… Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris and NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg will be among the dignitaries attending the three-day event, known as “Davos for defence”, which kicks off on Friday at the luxurious Bayerischer Hof hotel in Munich.

No Russian delegation will attend the conference, the Kremlin said last week – the first no-show in years, underscoring how much East-West relations have deteriorated.

Even at the height of the Ukrainian revolution preceding Russia’s annexation of Crimea, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov attended. Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova said the forum had increasingly become biased towards the West, “losing its inclusivity, objectivity”…


Per DW.com:


The chairman of the conference, Wolfgang Ischinger, told reporters that he could not remember when there had otherwise been “so many overlapping crises” to discuss…

Ischinger said on Friday he deeply regretted that Russian government representatives had rejected invitations to join the conference.

While admitting that attendance would have “limited enjoyment value” for them, Ischinger told German broadcaster ARD their absence meant Moscow had no chance to give its input on the Ukraine crisis.

“The chance of us actually arranging meaningful talks on the issue in Munich is, of course, much greater if an authorized Russian government representative with permission to speak were present,” he said.

He said “quite a number of Russians” had canceled because COVID restrictions in place at the conference required attendees to be vaccinated with vaccines approved in Germany. Russians are usually vaccinated with Russian-made vaccines that have not yet been authorized in the EU.

He did add, however, that there would be very experienced people from Russia attending the conference…

Reader Interactions

102Comments

  3. 3.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

     

    underscoring how much East-West relations have deteriorated

    Funny how the news media’s use of passive language always seems to remove agency (and obligation) from the aggressor, leading to bullshit like this to go unchallenged…

    Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova said the forum had increasingly become biased towards the West, “losing its inclusivity, objectivity”…

    Why is the west being so mean, so exclusive? It couldn’t have anything to do with Russia’s overt military hostility to a large neighbor who they have invaded recently?

    Only Dems “the West” can have agency, and therefore must be held accountable for anything and everything.

  4. 4.

    topclimber

    OT but anyone been following Vienna talks JCPOA about reviving Iranian nuclear deal? With fifth largest oil reserves in the world, letting them sell some of it would sure help.

    OTOH, Russia might very well be less receptive to reviving the pact now that they and the Saudis are doing the OPEC+ squeeze.

  5. 5.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Munich Conference during a crisis as an authoritarian country lines its troops up on the border of a nascent democracy? Where have I seen this before?

  9. 9.

    topclimber

    @topclimber: ​
    Just found this from the odd couple foreign affairs site supposedly founded by George Soros and one of the Koch brothers.

    Despite GOP doing its usual sabotage, if this article is to be believed, an agreement may be only weeks away.

  10. 10.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:

    Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova said the forum had increasingly become biased towards the West, “losing its inclusivity, objectivity”… 

    Oh mainstream media…

    I mean, Rethuglicans…

    Err I mean, Russkies.

  11. 11.

    Geminid

    @topclimber: It’s looking like there will be a deal to revive the JCPOA. @Cheryl Rofer has been following this on her Twitter account. Among other media outlets, the Times of Israel also follows this matter and keeps it’s reporting current.

  12. 12.

    Another Scott

    @Chief Oshkosh: The Olympics end on Sunday February 20 (closing ceremony starts 8 PM ET).

    [eta:] Er, Google says NBC coverage at 8 PM ET.  Olympics site says 8 PM China Standard Time (Beijing time).  8 PM in Beijing is 7 AM in EST.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  16. 16.

    piratedan

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: same old gameplan that’s run in the US… media bleats about Democratic Party messaging, steadfastly refuses to post any Democratic messaging on their newscasts or provide invites to “serious” news panel discussions…

    Damn near to the point of ridiculousness… we get to see plenty of GOP twisting of Dem messaging out of context on a daily basis, plenty of soapboxes for that, but the actual Dem messaging itself… well, who has time for that?

  24. 24.

    jonas

    @Omnes Omnibus: Where have I seen this before?

    It’s okay. They didn’t invite Josh Hawley or Rand Paul along, so there won’t be nearly as much appeasement this time around.

  25. 25.

    Steeplejack

    @Baud, @zhena gogolia:

    I can sort of follow threaded comments, if I get in the groove, but then I give up when I realize that new comments are appearing both below and above where I am in the general comment flow. Hard to go back and see the newly added “previous” ones. And maddening.

  27. 27.

    zhena gogolia

    I just subscribed to the Grauniad again. I hate their coverage of US politics, but I keep going there to read cultural articles.

  29. 29.

    Old School

    So is this why Republicans weren’t around to vote for Ted Cruz’s defund the schools amendment?  He wanted everyone to cancel their trip to Munich?

  31. 31.

    Patricia Kayden

    @brendancalling: About bleeding time. Had the “protesters” been Indigenous, law enforcement would have moved in long ago. I hope an investigation is conducted to find out why an insurrection was allowed to occupy the capital for so dang long.

  33. 33.

    Jackie

    President Volodymyr Zelenskiy is attending? In person or via ZOOM? Seems like a good time for Putin to attack Ukraine, if Zelensky is in Munich.

  34. 34.

    dimmsdale

    WTF are Joni Ernst, Rob Portman, and Lindsey Graham doing there?? Gawd, ‘bipartisanship’ again?? I would expect nothing out of them but sabotage at this point.

  38. 38.

    oatler

    Munich needs furniture, with  resolutions being brought to the table. items being tabled and groups being chaired.

  39. 39.

    oatler

    Munich needs furniture, with  resolutions being brought to the table. items being tabled and groups being chaired.

  43. 43.

    hueyplong

    I expect nothing but sabotage from any GOPer there, unless it is token notcrazyperson Mitt Romney.

    At least we’ve been spared RonJohn, who Putin himself probably wouldn’t trust to do anything competently if outside the context of a Senate hearing with his instructions in writing in front of him.

  47. 47.

    mrmoshpotato

    @brendancalling: Also, listen to Bitches, you Trump trash, truck trash (no offense to law-abiding truckers), fascist shitstains.

    If you attempt to violently overthrow your respective government or help fund attempts to violently overthrow governments, there may be consequences. Take heed. It could happen to you, potential government overthrowers and funders of government overthrowers. t.co/SoIQL0Hgkt— A Cat Named Bitches (@BitchestheCat) February 18, 2022

  52. 52.

    MattF

    @Roger Moore: We shall see. I wouldn’t be surprised if some Rs will want to distance themselves from Putin in the very near future.

    ETA: To be blunt, there may soon be a lot of casualties.

  53. 53.

    Another Scott

    ObOpenThread – ICYMI, excellent thread on the recent AP story on the “toxic” Democratic brand…

    I wasn't going to respond to this aggravating AP article, but … it is my nature. I wanna make two quick points on it. t.co/2GYbhHBEUJ

    — David Roberts (@drvolts) February 17, 2022

    David Roberts @drvolts 20h

    First — yes I am predictable — it is utterly bizarre to write on this subject & barely mention right-wing media, which has utterly captured rural America & is filling its head with lies & conspiracies. There’s no way to understand what’s happening without understanding that.

    The “Dems” that people in these areas hate bear virtually no resemblance to real-life Dems. It doesn’t matter what Fetterman or any other ostentatiously in-touch-with-working-people candidate says — they’ll never hear it! They’ll just hear lies about him. That’s the root of it.

    […]

    Well worth a click.

    AP’s political reporting, like much/most of the US press, has been bad for decades.

    (via nycsouthpaw)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  55. 55.

    Kelly

    @Old School: Judge believed she thought she was holding her taser. I read somewhere that the original taser design was similar to a flashlight. Didn’t sell well until changed to current pistol design. Flashlight design would prevent this mistake (or maybe “mistake”)

  56. 56.

    Leto

    @Baud:

    Potter, 49, has been in custody since just before Christmas last year, when jurors convicted her of first-degree manslaughter for the April 11, 2021, slaying of 20-year-old Wright in the Minneapolis suburb of Brooklyn Center.

    This part from the judge:

    The judge said she knows her ruling will be unpopular.

    “I recognize there will be those who disagree with the sentence; that I granted a significant downward departure, does not in any way diminish Daunte Wright’s life,” Chu said.

    Mainly because:

    Ben Crump, an attorney for the family, was particularly angered by Potter’s sentence, compared to the 57-month punishment against former Minneapolis police officer Mohamed Noor.

    Noor, a Somali immigrant, was convicted of shooting a 911 caller, mistaking her as a threat to his partner.

    “He was remorseful but they didn’t make a downward departure for the Black police officer like they made for this white policewoman,” Crump said. “And that’s problematic for many people of color in America. That we continue to see this intellectual justification.”

  57. 57.

    hueyplong

    @Leto: White woman defendant cried in court.

    Further explanation ok but not really necessary.

    Oh, and if the judge has to say that the value of the victim’s life isn’t being degraded, you can rest assured that it is.

  58. 58.

    Villago Delenda Est

    So, failure to adhere to the Muscovite line is “not objective.”  Well, isn’t that special!

  59. 59.

    Leto

    @hueyplong:

    White woman defendant cried in court.

    Also agreed about the “if the judge has to explain.” I don’t know what to do about it other than keep pointing it out and trying to change it.

  60. 60.

    hueyplong

    @Leto: oops.  Possibly got my shoot-instead-of-tase defendants mixed up.  Genders can vary.  Complexion kind of doesn’t

    Used to be the judges didn’t feel the need to offer explanations.  So, maybe, progress?

  63. 63.

    sdhays

    I saw something about this in my Apple News feed this morning, and the headline pissed me off. CNN’s headline?

    Harris faces the most critical foreign trip of her young vice presidency

    I doubt any vice presidency has been characterized as “young” before Harris’, especially after a year in already. I wonder why the headline writer felt the need to add that word. I went looking for it later on CNN’s website, and “young” had been conspicuously removed.

    Also, what the fuck did the previous vice president do in his four years in office? He did fuck all. I remember him stare over the border at North Korea to make it seem like his boss didn’t have a huge teenage crush on Kim Jong Un, and he was nominally in charge of the disastrous COVID “response”, but no one answered to him and he didn’t give any briefings, or really do anything.

    It really irritates me how badly Harris gets treated in the most off-hand ways.

  66. 66.

    Burnspbesq

    @Another Scott:

    As she so often is, Imani is spectacularly wrong. It is beyond dispute that Biden’s failure to allow Wright to testify had absolutely no impact on the outcome of the Thomas confirmation.

    I’d like her a lot better if she would stop making shit up.

  69. 69.

    catclub

    The 27% rule: About the Canadian trucker protest.

    In the Angus Reid Institute survey, conducted from February 11 to 13, 69% of respondents said they opposed the protesters themselves — their approach and behavior — versus just 27% who said they were supportive of the protesters.

  71. 71.

    Jackie

    @sdhays: And, let’s not forget that very important nfl football game Trump tasked him to go to so he could leave the game in protest, after a few players took a knee during the NA.

  73. 73.

    catclub

    @topclimber: is this like saying that Wyoming is a much bigger state than Connecticut?  I would guess Germany might be the largest European state by population.

  78. 78.

    Gravenstone

    @hueyplong: I did Lindsey the “courtesy” of checking his committee assignments. He does not at present sit on any relevant Senate committees that might relate to defense or foreign relations (Budget is as close as it gets). So yeah, WTF Linds?

  80. 80.

    Gravenstone

    @Kelly: Cross draw and repeated training are supposed to address those “mistakes” too. They still apply lethal force when they claim they meant to use less than lethal far too often.

  84. 84.

    Roger Moore

    @catclub:

    I would guess Germany might be the largest European state by population.

    You would guess wrong.  The majority of Russia’s population is in Europe, which makes European Russia (~110 M people) substantially larger than Germany (~83 M people) in population.

  85. 85.

    hueyplong

    @Baud: The comments are pretty good.

    “Never have I less needed a warning to not do something.

    Two words: Floyd Collins

  86. 86.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Another Scott:

    ObOpenThread

    I see this frequently in your comments. At first I thought it was simply a typo, but it’s consistent enough that I’ve concluded it’s deliberate and means something — but I have no idea what!

    Not being critical in the least, just very curious, and a little annoyed that I can’t figure it out. What does the “Ob” mean, please?

  90. 90.

    Another Scott

    @SiubhanDuinne: Ob = Obligatory

    One of those internetisms I picked up somewhere along the way.

    Not quite as bad as WFYITBFWLJ*

    HTH!

    Cheers,
    Scott.
    * – Waiting For You In The Bathtub Filled With Lime Jello (or something like that)

  91. 91.

    Origuy

    @SiubhanDuinne: “Ob” is short for “Obligatory” It goes back to the early days of the Internet. Used to indicate that the poster was making a side remark diverting from the current topic. E.g., ObMontyPython, “I’m not dead yet!”

  92. 92.

    Jinchi

    @sdhays: I doubt any vice presidency has been characterized as “young” before Harris’, especially after a year in already.

    Other than this article (and all the others citing it), I only find one other result for the phrase “young vice presidency”

    Mar. 30, 2017
    This was the second time in Mike Pence’s young vice presidency that he’s had to break a tie in the Senate. This time, he was voting to revoke an Obama administration rule that protected federal family planning money — Title X funds — for Planned Parenthood.

    So it’s weird and unusual, but not exclusive to Harris.​

  93. 93.

    Roger Moore

    @Burnspbesq:

    As she so often is, Imani is spectacularly wrong. It is beyond dispute that Biden’s failure to allow Wright to testify had absolutely no impact on the outcome of the Thomas confirmation.

    It’s also not at all clear that stopping Thomas’s confirmation would have resulted in a better outcome.  It’s not like GHWB was going to nominate someone massively better had Thomas been rejected.  Had the hearings shown a clear sense that the Senate thought he should be rejected for his ideology, GHWB might have felt compelled to nominate someone more moderate.  But if he was rejected at least nominally because of his personal behavior, the next nominee probably would have been ideologically similar.

  95. 95.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Another Scott:

    Many thanks! The only “Ob” I’m conversant with is “Obstetrician,” and I never could get past that in trying to suss out your meaning :-)

  97. 97.

    sdhays

    @Jinchi: Based on the timestamp, that was less than 3 months into Dense’s term. I’d be less sensitive about that kind of timeline. But we’re now over a quarter into Harris’ term, so that’s quite different.

    Clearly someone at CNN thought so too since they edited the headline.

  98. 98.

    Jinchi

    @Roger Moore: It’s not like GHWB was going to nominate someone massively better had Thomas been rejected.

    I disagree, it’s important to draw red lines in these situations. Otherwise we’d have had Robert Bork instead of Anthony Kennedy on the bench.
    After losing the nomination, Bork proved himself to be more extreme in his beliefs than any justice appointed to the court since, although Thomas is a close second.​

  100. 100.

    Roger Moore

    @Jinchi:

    As I said, had Thomas been rejected because of his ideology, Bush probably would have felt compelled to appoint someone more moderate.  But that wasn’t what was happening.  The hearings for Thomas focused on his personal behavior.  Had he been rejected, it would have been perceived as being about his personal behavior, not his ideology, so Bush wouldn’t have felt compelled to appoint someone more moderate.  It’s possible that the replacement would have been more moderate- Bush did appoint Souter, after all- but it certainly wouldn’t have been guaranteed.

    I feel like the same thing is true with Kavanaugh.  It would have been great to have defeated his nomination, but it still would have been Trump the Federalist Society picking the next nominee.  That’s why McConnell’s blocking of Garland’s nomination was such a big deal.  It wasn’t just defeating a specific nominee; it was letting a different president make the nomination.

  101. 101.

    Citizen Alan

    @Roger Moore:

    IIRC, the one possible (albeit remote) way that blocking Thomas would have worked would have been if it pushed the nomination into the 1992 election season. Poppy might have been reluctant to nominate another firebreathing Nazi if the confirmation hearings would have extended into that Spring. He might have even picked another Souter! Probably not, but it’s a thought.

    It’s still a heart-wrenching tragedy that Thurgood Marshall looked at Poppy’s approval numbers in 1991 and thought there was on sense  hanging on for longer. History would have changed if Bill Clinton’s first act was to replace Marshall.

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