Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let me file that under fuck it.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

The unpunished coup was a training exercise.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

T R E 4 5 O N

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

“woke” is the new caravan.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.

People identifying as christian while ignoring christ and his teachings is a strange thing indeed.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

You cannot shame the shameless.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Giving up is unforgivable.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

If a good thing happens for a bad reason, it’s still a good thing.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Foreign Affairs Open Thread: Ukraine, Defiant & Proud

Foreign Affairs Open Thread: Ukraine, Defiant & Proud

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  2. 2.

    Tony Jay

    After long seconds of deliberation I’ve come to the conclusion that what we really need to happen is for the Swedes to come down through Novgorod on a fleet of dragon ships to link up with Ukrainian forces somewhere north of Kiev, everyone gets truly, astonishingly drunk, there is dancing, probably some kind of smoked fish tossing, then they declare the restored Empire of Greater Varangia and send the two soberest envoys to present Moscow and Ankara with their territorial demands.

    It’s no more bonkers than Pufferfish Putin’s ahistorical ranting, and I think we can all agree that the trend for massive beards has made this course of action inevitable.

  5. 5.

    Tony Jay

    @Gin & Tonic:

    The Winter Olympics just finished so that’s at least half of Sweden’s adult population huffed, buffed and ready to rock and roll. I say send out the invites and get this show on the road wide, north/south river.

  9. 9.

    debbie

    Im on Putin's sanctions list, so I cant travel to Russia as I used to for 30 years. But I read, correspond with Russians every day, appear on media outlets. I have the strong impression that no one in Russia is enthusiastic about this war, except Putin & a few cheerleaders.— Michael McFaul (@McFaul) February 23, 2022

  12. 12.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @debbie:

    I have the strong impression that no one in Russia is enthusiastic about this war, except Putin & a few cheerleaders.

    I’ll believe in human evolution when no one is enthusiastic about any war. Good God y’all.

  13. 13.

    Cacti

    We’ve reached the point in the cycle of fascism where it’s time to fight.

    In the literal, physical sense.

  15. 15.

    dww44

    We just finished watching the CBS Evening News with Norah O’Donnell who had an interview, a deliberately contentious one, with Secretary Anthony Blinken.  She challenged him at every turn and he just took it.  She said that sanctions had already failed and were we going to just sit back and let the Ukranians get overrun?  Spouse and I wanted him to be blunt  and challenge her right back by asking her, “Ms O’Donnell, are you saying we should send troops into Ukraine? “He also didn’t directly contradict her statement that sanctions had ALREADY failed. Seriously, what planet does she live on?  She knows that sanctions don’t work immediately. Methinks she’s got an ax to grind.  This was reminiscent of that interview late in the Obama Presidency she did on 60 Minutes with Valerie Jarrett in which her true colors once again flew.  To this day, I don’t know why Valerie Jarrett took it. O’Donnell was offensive and disrespectful.

    Someone in the Biden Administration needs to go back on her nightly news show and put her straight.  Ask her flatout what ax she has to grind?  Cause she’s definitely got one.  Her expression at the end was quite telling.

    Spouse and I agree that not only is she an obvious partisan she’s definitely not a deserving successor to the likes of a Cronkite, a Murrow, or a Roger Mudd, and not even to her two immediate predecessors.  I don’t think the video is up yet at CBS News or I’d find a link and share it.

  16. 16.

    Tony Jay

    @trollhattan:

    Hakkaa päälle it is, then. The more the merrier.

    @Spanky:

    Hey, you try keeping three feet of flaxen braid clean while traversing the Pripet Marshes before you come laying down the law over Sven Svensen’s fabulous grooming habits.

  23. 23.

    Zelma

    Ah one of the great tragic turning points in history was the Russian defeat of the Swedes at Poltava.  If only!

  26. 26.

    mrmoshpotato

    Hannity: Putin has a very good shot of breaking up NATO…

    I see Sean is Putin’s bitch as well.  Is there anyone at FOX “News” who doesn’t suck Kremlin cock?

  28. 28.

    zhena gogolia

    @debbie: The laws have been changed so that it’s very hard to have demonstrations in Russia any more (at least in Moscow and St. P.). The penalties are too severe.

  32. 32.

    mrmoshpotato

    @dww44: “Which of you bloodthirsty fucknuts in the media will be first to enlist, you bloodthirsty, war-humping shitstains?  Will it be bitchass Chuckles the Toddler?”

  36. 36.

    Another Scott

    KyivIndependent news feed:

    Thursday, February 24

    02:52
    external Blinken: Russia will launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine before the end of the night. US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said that Russia has positioned its forces at the final point of readiness across Ukraine’s borders, to the north, to the east, to the south. “Everything seems to be in place for Russia to engage in major aggression against Ukraine.”

    02:27
    external Dzerkalo Tyzhnia: Airports in Kharkiv, Dnipro and Zaporizhzhia are blocking runways in case of attack. The three airports are officially closed until morning. They are blocking runways to prevent the possible landing of Russian aircraft. The airport in Kherson is to be closed next.

    “Will” in the first story seems too strong, but it’s clear that the danger is getting higher by the minute.

    3:15 AM local time traffic jam from Belgorod to the border visible in Google Maps:

    It means they all have their cell phones on, and US spies are likely listening to them and tracking them—and passing on intel to Ukraine https://t.co/9JN4nMMIJt— Borzou Daragahi ?? (@borzou) February 24, 2022

    (via CherylRofer)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  39. 39.

    Another Scott

    @Gin & Tonic: Yup.  The Ukrainian government is/will be blocking runways as well.

    FORTE12 (another USAF Global Hawk surveillance drone) is watching the area.

    Fingers crossed for the good people of Ukraine.

    Hang in there.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  41. 41.

    Gin & Tonic

    @zhena gogolia: In 2004, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians went into the streets to protest a stolen election, and ended up overturning it. In 2014 over a million Ukrainians spent months in the streets protesting the actions of a President who’d gone against the will of the people, and overturned the government.

  49. 49.

    WaterGirl

    @Gin & Tonic:

    One genocidal dictator decides to destroy a nation and the world can’t do anything?

    I feel sick just reading that, knowing what’s coming and feeling helpless because I can’t do anything about it. .

    I feel sick like I did on Sept 11, and like when our troops were marching toward Bagdad, and now this.

  50. 50.

    zhena gogolia

    @WaterGirl: Because they’ve been beaten down by 22 years of this shit. They went out on the streets en masse in 2012 and nothing happened. The opposition leaders have been gunned down and poisoned and imprisoned and the rest of them have left. Their country is a shithole. The protests of Navalny’s imprisonment were shut down immediately.

    ETA: Plus the majority don’t care. They’re focused on their own shitty lives.

  57. 57.

    Gin & Tonic

    One of our friends there just messaged “Well, you have to meet life face to face. Then we find out if you are worth something.”

  58. 58.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I have an idea that I — and a lot of us here at BJHQ — also won’t be getting much sleep tonight. I guess it depends on whether or not there’s major breaking news from the Ukraine-Russia border. Not that there’s a damn thing we can do. I guess it’s a kind of FOMO (News).

  61. 61.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Gin & Tonic:  @zhena gogolia

    This is not in direct response to either of your comments, but I wanted to share with you two in particular a beautiful, and perhaps soothing and calming, piece of music by a Ukrainian composer.

    You probably are both familiar with it (and anyway, I have a vague idea I posted it on a BJ thread several years ago). It’s Dimitri Bortniansky’s “Cherubic Hymn No. 7.” 

    There are any number of performances on YouTube; I simply grabbed one to link for you.

    ETA: Forgot to mention the key thing: Bortniansky was Ukrainian.

    We’re all sick at heart at what’s happening. I hope this sublime music helps a little.

    https://youtu.be/P-fE-YsM_Vk

  63. 63.

    Another Scott

    @debbie: I’m not sure who exactly she was referring to.  China made a wishy-washy statement last night, but I don’t know if that’s what she was referring to.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  64. 64.

    Leto

    Just now on Lawrence O’Donnell, apparently Putin is addressing Russia and has said he’s authorized a military operation in the Donbas region. Christ.

  66. 66.

    Gin & Tonic

    @SiubhanDuinne: Thanks.

    You know, I learned some Old Church Slavonic when I was younger, but that was (obvs) for liturgical stuff, and my, uhm, faith has largely lapsed.

  67. 67.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Leto: Addressing the nation at 6 in the morning?

    ETA: I guess so. Multiple reports that Kramatorsk is being attacked at the moment.

  70. 70.

    Leto

    (WaPo) Russia has decided to carry out a ‘special military operation’ in Ukraine, Putin says

    Russian President Vladimir Putin said Thursday that the Kremlin had decided to carry out a “special military operation” in Ukraine.

    “The situation requires us to take decisive, swift action,” he said in an early morning speech, adding that adding that Moscow would carry out the “demilitarization and denazification” of Ukraine and end eight years of war in eastern Ukraine, where Kyiv government forces have been fighting pro-Moscow separatist militants.

    Putin also told Ukrainians to give up their weapons and to return home.

    Edit:@Gin & Tonic: Yes, though I see you’re seeing reports now. I’m sorry.

  72. 72.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I’m not a person of faith at all, but there’s plenty of sacred music I dearly love — from several faith traditions. This Bortniansky has long been a favourite (my high school choir sang it, and I went nuts).

  74. 74.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Leto: Everyone of Putin’s excuses/justifications has been transparent bullshit.  It’s like he doesn’t care if there is even a tissue thin layer of plausibility.

  78. 78.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I hadn’t realised Zelensky was Jewish. Putin’s words are not only, as Leto says, “fucking ludicrous,” they are as offensive as can be.

    I have lived through quite a few horrible and scary and tragic events, but this is only the third time I’ve felt genuine existential dread. The first was the Cuban Missile crisis. The second was January 6, 2021.  Now this fucking Russian madman.

  81. 81.

    Leto

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yeah. I’m ready for the SWIFT removal option to happen now. Should’ve happened before, but at this point it needs to happen. I referenced dropping the hammer on Russia yesterday, and this is what I meant. Full on international pariah status for them.

  82. 82.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Kind of curious if Putin was going to invade, why all the stumbling around for years? The shear ineptness of Russia’s actions is quite frightening in a “what stupid thing is next?” kind of way.

  83. 83.

    Origuy

    I enjoyed Snyder’s brief history of Ukraine; I knew a lot of it before, but he put it into perspective. If you want to read more about Poland, Lithuania, and western Ukraine, check out Vanished Kingdoms by Norman Davies. He covers fourteen European states that have disappeared in one way or another, including the Poland-Lithuania Commonwealth and the USSR.

  84. 84.

    prostratedragon

    Report is that there are no sirens going off in  Kyiv, which creates uncertainty about what is going on.

  85. 85.

    Another Scott

    @prostratedragon:  The fog of war is a real thing. People shouldn’t assume that Tweets and TV reports are correct.

    The Russian UN ambassador (also the present UN Security Council president) is speaking lying now.

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  87. 87.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @prostratedragon: 
    I also notice the Russians restricted just flights on the Ukrainian border. This sounds more like random drunken waffling and shit talking from Putin right now.

  88. 88.

    prostratedragon

    @Another Scott:  Yeah,  I hear the translator from the next room.  Not getting any closer until she’s through,  as false accusation is my most delicate hair trigger.

  90. 90.

    Leto

    Agent Orange is on Fox, blaming Biden and supporting Putin. I just can’t with this traitorous piece of shit.

  96. 96.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Leto:

    At this point, I’m almost inclined to agree. What Russia is doing to Ukraine is disgusting. Though, I remember the Russian government saying that SWIFT removal would be taken by them as a declaration of war, so I don’t know.

    Is Putin willing to use nuclear weapons if it comes to that?

    I can’t even begin to imagine what the economic effects the invasion of Ukraine is going to have on the global economy going forward. I saw an article today that speculated that a potential Ukraine-Russia war could trigger the return of stagflation.

  97. 97.

    Another Scott

    WH.gov statement by Biden:

    Statement by President Biden on Russia’s Unprovoked and Unjustified Attack on Ukraine

    FEBRUARY 23, 2022

    STATEMENTS AND RELEASES

    The prayers of the entire world are with the people of Ukraine tonight as they suffer an unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces. President Putin has chosen a premeditated war that will bring a catastrophic loss of life and human suffering. Russia alone is responsible for the death and destruction this attack will bring, and the United States and its Allies and partners will respond in a united and decisive way. The world will hold Russia accountable.

    I will be monitoring the situation from the White House this evening and will continue to get regular updates from my national security team. Tomorrow, I will meet with my G7 counterparts in the morning and then speak to the American people to announce the further consequences the United States and our Allies and partners will impose on Russia for this needless act of aggression against Ukraine and global peace and security. We will also coordinate with our NATO Allies to ensure a strong, united response that deters any aggression against the Alliance. Tonight, Jill and I are praying for the brave and proud people of Ukraine.

    ###

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  98. 98.

    marcopolo

    @debbie: So according to the Russia experts, the use of denazification in the context of this attack is a pretext for killing a lot of Ukrainian civilians that Putin doesn’t like, y’know political dissidents, democracy activists, etc..

    I pray for everyone in harms way there.  Hell, I pray for all of us cause god knows where this will all end up.  War in Europe in my lifetime, never expected this.  Fuck living in interesting times.

    Wishing everyone as much of a good night as you all can get.  I’m gonna go to bed & try to get some sleep because I am lucky enough to be able to,

  99. 99.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @debbie:

    I also “loved” that he said that it was time for Ukrainians to “come home”. Jesus Christ, what fucking nerve. So incredibly disgustingly paternalistic

  100. 100.

    Another Scott

    Countries are making additional comments after hearing that Putin ordered the invasion. They’re not letting Putin get away with calling it a “special military operation” – they’re calling it a “war”.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  102. 102.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Putin announced his war to the Russian people at 6 am Moscow time?

    Just hearing from the NBC correspondent that he directly mentioned Russia’s nuclear capacity?

  103. 103.

    Leto

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): all of this buildup has already played havoc on the Ukrainian economy. We’re feeling it here too via the volatility in the market. I don’t know what the immediate/medium/long term economic effects will be, but given everything they’ve done just to their neighbors, SWIFT is justified imo. I’m sure Biden is doing everything he can along with our EU/NATO partners.

    Michael McFaul on MSNBC doing his usual excellent explanations of what’s happening.

  104. 104.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Another Scott:

    I kept hoping that war would be averted. I wanted to believe that a diplomatic solution would be possible, that Putin would do the smart thing and back down, or the ground would thaw to become a muddy mess, preventing invasion. I guess that’s not going to happen

  105. 105.

    Leto

    Advisor to the Minister of the Interior is confirming missile strikes on command centers in Kyiv, as well as on the airport. The MSNBC reporter on air is saying she’s hearing explosions in the distance, off to her right.

  106. 106.

    Another Scott

    Short video clip.

    An attack on Ukraine is an attack on democracy.

    I applaud @POTUS for his forceful leadership in imposing the first tranche of swift & severe sanctions to counter Russian aggression.

    The U.S. & our allies stand together in our unwavering support of the Ukrainian people. pic.twitter.com/bOzkeWMpk9

    — Nancy Pelosi (@SpeakerPelosi) February 24, 2022

    She’s right. We must stand firm with Ukraine.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  107. 107.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: sounds like it

    Jennifer Griffin @JenGriffinFNC. 38m

    US official tells me: Right now we are seeing the pre assault fires. Expect this to go on for a few hours. Land attack to follow with ALL of the full forces Putin has arrayed. Explosions heard in Kiev, Odessa, Mariupol. “It’s begun.”

  109. 109.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    So the Russians don’t have enough troops to occupy the Ukraine according the Western Intelligence. So, is this an attempt to break off the East or is this just the Russians are going to show they can out stupid the Bush admin? It’s like with Iraq and Afghanistan, it’s the occupation that’s the real problem.

  110. 110.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Dylan McLemore @voiceofD 34m

    Please be careful what you share as war breaks out in Ukraine. On social media, we’re all mass communicators, and we can all unintentionally mislead. Look for on-the-ground reports from journalists affiliated with reputable news organizations.

  112. 112.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Leto:

    all of this buildup has already played havoc on the Ukrainian economy.

    No doubt. I feel so bad for them. I hope Biden and others hit Putin hard for this.

    We’re feeling it here too via the volatility in the market.

    I’ve been following this too. Stock futures are plunging. Crude oil has spiked 3%

    I don’t know what the immediate/medium/long term economic effects will be, but given everything they’ve done just to their neighbors, SWIFT is justified imo.

    I tend to agree. I just hope it doesn’t lead to WW3

  115. 115.

    Another Scott

    Atlantic Council is having a live discussion on “Twitter Spaces”. One doesn’t have to have a twitter account to listen.

    They make a disclaimer that they’re not a news organization so are only talking about what’s in the news.

    It’s a bit too real-time for me this late at night. :-(

    I’m going to @AtlanticCouncil’s upcoming Space. Will you join too? https://t.co/vYk1sghAGi @melindaharing

    — Steve Swerdlow (@steveswerdlow) February 24, 2022

    Fingers crossed. Try to rest easy, everyone.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  116. 116.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Granted, but it was so out there in terms of being contradictory to each other that it surprised me a bit. Like, blaming Biden would imply that Trump disapproves of Putin’s actions. Yet he also praises Putin at the same time, implying support for his actions

  124. 124.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: The Russians don’t need to hold Ukraine. Rather Putin’s talk of “denazifaction” suggests they’ll likely try to:

    • Do a fast shock and awe campaign to seize the country,
    • Decapitate the leadership (literally) and purge any potential opposition
    • Install a puppet government.
    • Then withdraw fairly quickly and hand things off to the puppet government, which likely won’t much of a military left.
    • Possibly leave a large enough “peace keeping” contingent — purportedly invited by the puppet government — to discourage any attempt to overthrow the puppet government.

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