For much of last week, Jen Psaki had some really great visitors speaking about Ukraine at the beginning of the press briefings, and I am thinking that today may not be much different.
A couple of tweets while we wait.
???? pic.twitter.com/JoScQOdv0b
— Mary801 ?? ?? (@MaryUtah) February 27, 2022
I laughed at this and then nearly cried at the truth of it. Complicity.
A thought for all the Deutsche Bank employees who had to work straight through this weekend, figuring out new avenues to launder oligarchic capital.
(And not just DB, but a lot of big banks, law firms, and accounting firms.)
— Adam Davidson (@adamdavidson) February 27, 2022
Open thread.
Chief Oshkosh
Some of the cluster bomb and multi-missile videos are horrible to watch, but really bring home just how shitty Putin and his henchmen are. One that really hit me, not sure why, is taken from a security camera on a building overlooking a park. People are strolling along through park paths, there’s a big boom, then suddenly lots of small booms at about head-height. You can see the bombs’ shrapnel hitting cars parked on the near side of the park, and the strollers splayed out on the paths.
Totally random civilian deaths.
Raoul Paste
@Chief Oshkosh: I saw that, and I hope the whole world sees it, including ordinary Russian citizens
Yarrow
Has this clip of Zelensky made it over here yet? It’s something else. Sorry, you have to click through to see it.
Old School
@Yarrow:
Not sure, but this one was in the replies in case it hasn’t made it either.
Edit: Full clip here.
Yarrow
@Old School: Every time I think that’s it, more amazing clips of Zelensky show up.
Alison Rose
Love that bit about Putin unifying NATO. Oh snap.
Alison Rose
Who is the dipshit asking if there is a time limit on the sanctions?
Ken
@Alison Rose: Probably wondering if his next paycheck will bounce.
Alison Rose
I’m kind of creeped out by how many of them keep asking “oh noes, what if these sanctions make Putin mad??????” Like…are they on his payroll too?
O. Felix Culpa
@Alison Rose: Probably.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Alison Rose: I was just getting ready to say that. For days, they asked why the US hadn’t imposed sanctions yet. Now they immediately want to know when they’ll be removed
The Dangerman
@Alison Rose: Either payroll or pee tape.
ETA: So the Russian Market is going to be closed all week. Well that will solve everything.
Kent
QUESTION: When are the sanctions going to be removed?
ANSWER: That depends entirely on the Russians.
Another simple answer to stupid questions.
JaySinWa
Cleek’s law illustrated:
https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/149839195812080845
ETA if Pelosi and D’s are for it they are against it. “It’s just common sense”
Alison Rose
@Dorothy A. Winsor: And this whole “oh but this might make Putin do bad stuff” like………………..shut up.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Chief Oshkosh:
The fact that this isn’t collateral damage from attacks on military targets is stunning.
These are war crimes, period.
Gravenstone
@JaySinWa: Tweet go bye bye?
Roger Moore
@The Dangerman:
Yeah, the completely random closing of the market for a week won’t spook anyone in the country and make them think the war is going badly. Nuh uh.
Yarrow
@Alison Rose: They are such textbook victims.
Starboard Tack
Scotland leads world in creative insults.
Sebastian
@Yarrow:
OMG hahahaha
Old School
@Gravenstone:
Looks like it is this one.
M31
jesus christ, I turn it on, and first thing I hear is some ‘journalist’ complain that Biden wasn’t on our TVs enough
mofo is working, you know, like Presidents are supposed to do
scav
@Roger Moore: New Symbol of Holy Russia! Double-headed Ostrich!
pluky
@Chief Oshkosh: This is a war crime.
Alison Rose
This douche asking the mask questions, like really dude? Nothing else more important??
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Roger Moore:
“Dear Oligarchs:
Vova has done such a good job that he’s managed to destroy the Ruble, strengthened NATO with a new sense of purpose and countries wanting entry, gotten your athletes banned everywhere, gotten all your major assets seized, provided the rationale for new vehicles of financial oversight and control, and gotten you blocked from leaving the borders of the Motherland. Now he threatens annihilating of your society by threatening others. Is he really what you want?”
Old School
Lyrebird
@Old School:
That is awesome. Thanks for re-posting. I wish I could find the lyrics and/or find out if it was a parody of something else.
Mallard Filmore
Too late for Putin to build a Chinese firewall.
democraticunderground.com has a short item
https://democraticunderground.com/100216416865
The title is “Hacked! OMG, Belarus railway system uses Windows XP.”
The content of the bit is a list of tweets, the first one is here:
https://twitter.com/vxunderground/status/1498143865894752259
“Today the Belarusian Cyber-Partisons group (@cpartisans) staged a cyber attack against the Belarusian railway infrastructure, designed to halt Russian military movements. Trains stopped in Minsk, Orsha, and Osipovichi
The railway system uses Windows XP.
Image via
@cpartisans”
Jim Appleton
@Old School: Our safari team found them in impromptu diners set up in subway stations …
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Yarrow:
He’s a very brave and impressive man
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Chief Oshkosh:
Horrible. None of this had to happen. All for Putin’s ego
catclub
@Mallard Filmore:
 
or an unpatched, pirate version thereof.
Miss Bianca
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
“Time to ask yourselves: ‘Don’t you think he looks
tiredbetter off dead?'”Lyrebird
@Lyrebird: ETA: sorry, to find out what it is a parody of. It says “Parodia 2014” on it.
@Alison Rose: Some parodies are not very funny. Like these parodies of journalism. Wish we could get some Ukrainians to get the jobs of Wolf Blitzer and the person who asked “have you thought about the possibility of your husband not coming home” to the wife saying goodbye. Like there’s a tweeter whose last name sounds like nachos or something else edible, maybe G&T will know who I mean, and Americans there like Starr.
CaseyL
The utter inanity of the WH Press Corpse never fails to (un)impress. Same questions, over and over again. Same inability to hear what was previously said and adjust one’s own question in response.
At least Psaki didn’t give Doocy a chance to open his yap. (Or I missed it if she did.)
dr. bloor
@Roger Moore:
In fairness, Putin’s choice is to close the markets and let everyone assume their economy is down the shitter, or he can let the markets open up and confirm it.
JaySinWa
@Gravenstone: Hmm, maybe I copied the wrong tweet: Let’s try this one
https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1498391958120808456
And the original text
Why are so many Trump-loving right-wing Christians siding with Russia? We’ll let Delora O’Brien explain: “If Pelosi and all these people are for Ukraine, duh, you go opposite. That’s just common sense.”
WaterGirl
@CaseyL: She did not!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@CaseyL:
Has the WH Press Corp always been this bad? I feel like I’ve asked something similar to this in the past
Jim, Foolish Literalist
p.a.
Via atrios:
@NYBackpacker
Ukrainian Ambassador to the UN General Assembly asking which country “voted for Russia [a newly formed country] to be admitted to the UN” after the breakup of the Soviet Union No one in the Assembly raises their hands
Incredible moment in the UN.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Well, that’s evidence of a war crime
Lyrebird
@Lyrebird:
sorry I hope there’s no limit on talking to myself here, I just remembered
Chalupa, Alexandra Chalupa.
I was thinking, it’s not burrito, it’s not tortilla…
Anyhow Wiki says she’s 1st gen Ukrainian American, I just remembered her offering a lot of bkg knowledge back before Michael Cohen chose to leave the dark side, at a time when this wasn’t getting much notice.
WaterGirl
@p.a.: Wow.
JaySinWa
@JaySinWa: I have seen some of the religious right siding with Ukraine so this is not a unified position.
Bill Arnold
@JaySinWa:
My jaw literally dropped for a second or three. The other ones nodding and agreeing was just …
It’s a form of groupthink entirely defined by the opposition.
The Dangerman
@dr. bloor: The back pressure by next Monday should create shitter squared; maybe Putin will jump out a window.
He is not now woke and he will soon not ever be woke.
And I hope wrt Ukraine that Biden uses the opportunity to call Trump a stupid fuck for calling Putin a genius and watch all the Righties sit on their hands, looking like they are badly constipated.
CliosFanBoy
@Mallard Filmore: The DU is still around????
Calouste
@p.a.: It’s actually a pretty smart approach, because the UN General Assembly did have a vote on the PRC taking over China’s seat from Taiwan, so China would be less likely to block this way of kicking Russia out of the Security Council.
Sebastian
Ukrainians cracked the Russian codes. It’s worse than you think. My God, so much worse.
CaseyL
@WaterGirl: Thank goodness for small mercies.
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Yes. It has always been this bad. “WH Press Corpse” is a very old derogatory nickname for them. I’m not sure, but I think Atrios may have coined it, back in the old Eschaton days (which is to say, back in the 90s. It may predate even that!).
ETA: There’s a reason Watergate was cracked by a couple of street reporters and not by the WHPC.
dm
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I saw a tweet that went along the lines of:
“Just for informational purposes only, those who might be curious, here is a list of locations the yachts of Russian oligarchs and where they are docked, drawn from public sources.”
Gin & Tonic
@Lyrebird: Her sister Andrea is a journalist, works with Sarah Kendzior (who I know is not universally beloved around here.) Alexandra did a great deal of work on Paul Manafort and, if I’m not mistaken, was threatened by him.
The “ch” there is pronounced like the “kh” in Kharkiv, not like in “chair.”
Ken
Kind of a variation of the old “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.”
And speaking of the White House Press Corps….
Calouste
@The Dangerman: Yep, keeping the Moscow stock market closed for a week just means there’s seven more days for foreign companies to announce that they are going to divest from Russia, like Shell did today. Maybe Putin send some of his salesmen to China to announce that there is going to be a firesale on Monday, and if they would be interested.
Talking about China, I assume there is some reassessment going on there of the strategic plans for the invasion of Taiwan in the light of what’s happening this week. Of course, they are in a stronger position than Russia in some ways, and Europe might not be as concerned about Taiwan as it is about Ukraine. But they have a lot less nukes a lot further away, and the political risk of Russia cutting of gas to Germany is a lot higher than China cutting of the supply of iPhones and other consumer goods. Also because people have gotten used to “supply chain issues” anyway over the last two years.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and in which Crenshaw himself is depicted as Davey Crockett (the 50s TV version) waving a very…. odd flag
Martin
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Problem is that enforcement of war crimes requires a military victory over those who commit them.
Looks like Russia has given up on a fast/light victory, repositioning for a slow/heavy one. The sanctions are already in place. Russia only possible win here is ownership of Ukraine, in whatever state their artillery leaves it.
Looks like Russian money is moving into crypto. Creates an interesting situation for the US Fed and EU regulators. What does a sanctioning mechanism look like against crypto networks?
Mallard Filmore
@CliosFanBoy:
Yes, and near as I can tell it has a healthy set of its own jackals. Not nearly up to BJ quality but they are there.
You might be thinking of Addicting Info.
dm
@Calouste: I am wondering if, instead of Taiwan, the People’s Republic might be considering the resource-rich real-estate to their north, (formerly?) defended by an army that is not proving particularly adept. Perhaps they will move, at first, only in the guise of “belt and road initiative”.
The population of Eastern Siberia is 7 million.
WaterGirl
@Sebastian: Why would they publicize that???
rikyrah
I am cracking up at the Oligarchs, roaming through the seas, trying to get to countries that won’t take their yachts.
Gin & Tonic
@Lyrebird: It’s too complicated to explain.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@p.a.:
@WaterGirl:
What’s the significance of this? Is it that Russia is just that toxic?
Ken
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): If Russia wasn’t formally admitted to the U.N., they aren’t a member, and certainly not on the Security Council.
Repatriated
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Ties back into the premise that Russia is not the legimate successor state to the USSR’s seat on the UN Security Council, and can/should be stripped of it.
dm
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): it calls into question why Russia has a veto in the Security Council, for one thing.
Jim Appleton
@The Dangerman:
I hope so too, yet won’t be surprised if goobers push back with some head-spinning version of Biden/NATO, aggressor.
Gin & Tonic
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): After the breakup of the USSR, the Russian Federation took over their seat in the UN GA and on the UNSC. Nobody ever voted on that, they just took it over. The argument is that that violated procedure, and the Russian Federation does not legitimately occupy that seat.
Yeah, it’s a long shot, but you take very shot you can.
CliosFanBoy
@Mallard Filmore: I just remember it as conspiracy central back in the day.
Frank Wilhoit
I have (not much of) a Deutsche Bank anecdote. The one time I visited Germany, at Xmas of 1980, I stayed with friends in Bonn. Those were the days of all cash, all the time; I had followed the then-current advice and put half my travel-expense money in AmEx travellers’ cheques and the other half in Benjamins. As it turned out, the $100s were blissfully changed at par everywhere, but the AmEx cheques were only understood at banks and were there subjected to extortionate fees — 14%, if memory serves. So I wound up bringing most of them back and as the DM had gone up seven cents while I was away, I made a profit on them. There endeth my career as a currency speculator, but my story has to do with the one cheque that I cashed at a DB branch in downtown Bonn.
Imagine, if you will, a bank lobby with the same overall affect (ceilings, wood, marble, acoustics, etc.) as any here at home, but instead of teller “windows”, there was only a waist-high table running the width of the room, with 6 or 8 tellers sitting behind it. In front of each teller were piles of notes and stacks of coins. No physical barriers of any kind. But at the far left end of the table, there stood a single uniformed guard with some kind of immense automatic weapon slung over his shoulder.
That’s it, that’s the story. Like Holmes’s dog in the night-time, the story is that nothing happened. A good thing, too.
dm
Or, he could say, “We will send aid to Ukraine in this struggle, without first asking them to do us a favor.”
(And what happened to that readout that was squirreled away in the super-secret server in the White House, anyway? Did it find its way to Mar-a-lago, too?)
different-church-lady
@rikyrah: “Russian Luxury Cruiser: go fuck yourself.”
Roger Moore
@Martin:
I think the main thing you do is to look at the connections to crypto. It’s the real weakness of the network: there aren’t enough people interested in accepting crypto for it to be a functioning currency. It’s useful as an exchange, but that still leaves people vulnerable when they’re putting money into the network or taking it out. You make it hard for Russians to put money into the network by making people not want rubles, which seems like it’s already happening. You make it hard to take money out by monitoring the money that comes out and see if there’s a nexus to stuff Russia wants. So it’s basically the same kind of old-fashioned detective work you always need when looking for sanctions-breakers.
p.a.
Are Russian oligarchs still renting from tRumpov? If their funds go bye-bye…
Kent
@Roger Moore: The only way that the Russians can move into crypto is if they buy crypto. Which means finding billions of dollars worth of Bitcoin in which the current owners want to exchange it for rubles. I’m sure they can find some bitcoin owners who might want rubles, but I doubt they can find anywhere near the amount that would be required to run a large economy. Especially with the ruble plunging.
Mallard Filmore
@CliosFanBoy: It might still be. I mostly go there for late breaking stories. The comments are usually just noise.
Jeffro
@Old School: he means, “we spoke with the two people – as in, to be honest, one person with a split personality – who do not”
Enhanced Voting Techniques
even if they can’t get all the crypto, it makes it hard for Russia to tax that money to pay for Putin’s march back to Berlin.
Chief Oshkosh
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Very accurate portrayal of Trump’s tiny hands, though, so it’s got that goin’ for it.
Patricia Kayden
Martin
@Repatriated: Exactly this. I remember the question coming up in the early 90s. USSR nations voted for Russia to take the seat, but the UN never did, and the UN charter doesn’t seem to have a succession provision, so basically the UN just said ‘yeah, okay, whatever’.
matt
One striking thing about this Ukraine conflict is how little what Republicans say is relevant to the conversation. It’s between American Democrats, Russia, Ukraine, other countries of the world.
The Republicans don’t have anything to add, anything to say. They just keep saying crazy nutter stuff like ‘Biden is an idiot who can’t do anything right’ and ‘Zelensky is out of his depth’ and ‘Oh shit I was wrong when I said Putin is my hero’.
matt
@Chief Oshkosh: On the shittiness of Putin:
I was reading up on Chechnya and I was wondering if I had it right – I see a total of 150,000+ civilian deaths out of a 1.5 million total population over the 2 wars.
I just don’t see this kind of war-fighting working against a nation of 40 million that’s integrated into Europe. Are they really going to slaughter 1 million civilians? 2 million?
Martin
@Kent: No, I think the idea is that they’re taking dollars, Euros, etc. that are likely to be tracked down and frozen and using that to buy crypto. Basically, laundering that money an additional time.
And Roger has the right idea – Bitcoin and other crypto don’t work as ‘pure’ currencies. They are valued in dollars because they need to be converted to be useful, so you focus on the conversion points.
Alternatively, you just take it. If code is law, provided you can write the code to take it, it’s yours.
UncleEbeneezer
@matt: The GOP is standing athwart history shouting “Derp.” They did so with Covid too, of course, but this is even harder to ignore.
Miss Bianca
@matt: No, they don’t, but that’s not stopping them from saying it. I think what may be changing is that the rest of America is having an “oh shit” moment when they see actual heroism against actual oppression in action, as opposed to the fake Oppression Olympics BS and empty macho posturing that the Russian-funded right wing has been pushing on us.
Incidentally, I am wondering if the clampdown on Russian money movement worldwide suddenly causes a lot of the anti-vax, pro-fascist propaganda to dry up on social media. I think so, or at least, I hope so.
debbie
I’m afraid to google it: What does “Vova” mean?
LongHairedWeirdo
Hi, folks. ‘Weirdo back with a brief PSA.
Hypomania sucks. You think you’re a fucking genius, and, if you’ve actually been one all your life, you see how you’ve been right about a lot of things (both petty, and vital). Makes it easy to be stupid.
Fatigue sucks worse. It’s easy to feel stupid, because today, I’m in gym shorts and a t-shirt and that was actually a fairly major accomplishment. I’m writing these words while concentrating on forming complete sentences.
And there are Republicans in office right now who don’t care about zombifying people like me. They don’t care that burning out a person’s lungs might mean a long, horrible life where it’s easier to live without friends, because you can’t keep up on the demands people place on normies to be friends.
Nothing onerous, see, I’m just talking about stuff like remembering birthdays and anniversaries once in a while, attending the big life events, being always ready to talk, within a day or two, for fun gossip (the kind that two people are dating, not that their spouses are furious about it), or a bit of support. Being able to be a full human being, and not just a roving meat machine trying to find non-economic purpose.
Somewhere out there are likely thousands of Covid-19 victims who are becoming angry, pain-filled, bitter people, as friends and family start to shut them out for having become such a grouch, or an abuser of drugs, including alcohol. For the young, maybe it’s getting into fights and losing one’s temper far more often, for no apparent reason.
Maybe a young mom or dad has turned from devoted to defensive, because children have needs, sure, but so do adults, and why are there *so many* stupid, constant, demands for food, and playtime, and and and….
I have no energy, but I still have my rage. I hope it transfers just a bit to at least one other person today.
different-church-lady
@matt: Are you sure about that last bit?
Baud
@debbie:
Insulting nickname for Putin.
Martin
@matt: It depends on how Putin sees the end state here. He started this seemingly with the idea that it’d be like Crimea – he’d take it, the US/NATO/EU would decide they don’t want to fight Russia directly, and once it was done we’d sort of shrug our shoulders, accept we could do nothing about it, and make it slightly economically painful for Putin.
That’s now off the table. Russia is being isolated almost as badly as North Korea, and I don’t think we’re going to shrug this off. He can’t lose the sanctions and keep Ukraine, and he may not be able to lose the sanctions even if he withdraws. So his best outcome might be to accept that he’s fucked on sections either way and just take Ukraine, because then he’d at least have Ukraine.
Casualties mean nothing in this calculation, unless it causes NATO to engage.
debbie
@Baud:
Thanks.
sheila in nc
@debbie: It is apparently a low-class diminutive for “Vladimir”
debbie
@sheila in nc:
I love that about Old World languages. You can slur without swear words.
Repatriated
@Patricia Kayden:
And the tactic of stepping back and appearing to let European nations lead is quelling a Cold War spectre: While the US nuclear umbrella kept the USSR out of Europe, there was always the possibility that Europe would be the battleground for a purely US-USSR dispute that Europeans had no interest or choice in.
Letting European governments appear to take the lead (with US backing, of course, but downplayed) avoids the impression that the US is dragging Europe into the crossfire.
The fact that it it’s on their doorstep and portends an existential security threat… well, a lot of things that didn’t seem like priorities a month ago, now are.
Baud
@Patricia Kayden:
?
ETA: one of the things I like about Biden is he doesn’t feel the need to engage in displays of preening masculinity that serve no purpose in getting things done.
Repatriated
@Martin:
Which, for anyone still wondering, is why we didn’t push for preemptive sanctions as a deterrent.
If they happen up front, they’re a sunk cost for them, and no longer a deterrent.
Miki
Chewy interview with Fiona Hill
Yeah, Politico, but Hill is the star, something she does really well.
Roger Moore
@Repatriated:
I don’t think the US is letting Europe appear to take the lead. I think Europe is taking the lead because they’re afraid and angry and want to do something. The US couldn’t get France or Germany to go along on Iraq. What makes you think we could get them to go along on Ukraine? What makes you think we have any kind of pull in Sweden or Finland? Those countries are acting quickly because they have chosen to act.
The Pale Scot
Given the ambiguity of the laws concerning crypto, why not just have the NSA hack in and scoop it all up. Tell the “owners” come and show proof we’ll give it back. Run it thru local police dept’s forfeiture squads
CROAKER
@Miki:
Thanks that was a good read. I don’t agree with all of her assessment.
Lyrebird
@Gin & Tonic:
Thanks for the reply & the clarifications on the Chalupa sisters, I also recall at least one of them being threatened.
And :) I also recall Andrea explaining that her name doesn’t sound like the dish, but it sure makes it easier to remember!
Am personally not a super fan of some of Kendzior’s interpretations of US politics, but I have no doubts about her Eastern Europe expertise, and I have no expectation that I will agree with anyone 100%.
The Pale Scot
@LongHairedWeirdo:
Peace be upon you dude
Ivan X
@Dorothy A. Winsor: the clip from a few days ago of a national news reporter with White House access using her opportunity to ask a question…to ask what Psaki thought of Ted Cruz calling her Peppermint Patty…tells you all you need to know about the quality of these hires. I didn’t even care about her response, I was so appalled.
Roger Moore
@The Pale Scot:
This is actually way harder than you might think. AFAIK, all the “crypto” hacks to date have actually been attacks on bad security at the crypto equivalent of banks, not on the underlying technology. Basically, the crypto “wallet” apps are not as convenient as you might want, so for convenience many people store their cryptocurrency at “exchanges”. They transmit their currency to the exchange, and the exchange then sends it back when they ask for it, the same as any bank. This process has much, much worse security than the underlying crypto protocols*, so anyone who wants to steal cryptocurrency targets the exchanges. Truly paranoid people can still maintain their own wallets, and the security is good enough that even the NSA will have a very hard time with it.
*Many people who are serious about this stuff are pretty sure some of the “hacks” have actually been insiders draining people’s accounts and blaming nefarious hackers for the damage.
eclare
@rikyrah: Or having their mechanics sink the yachts and get out on bail, like the guy in Mallorca. Boss owns a weapons plant in Russia.
I bet there was a line to pay his bail.
eclare
@Baud: A-fucking-men.
eclare
@Roger Moore: According to a thread I read somewhere else last night, it helps to get things done in the EU to have BoJo out of the way.
Unintended consequences, they bite
Martin
@Roger Moore: Depends on the form of crypto. What you describe sounds like Bitcoin, but Etherium puts code on the chain, which really expands the space for hacks. And because a token once issued can’t be edited (that’s the whole point after all) if you push some bit of malware out in a token and into someone’s wallet, they now have to deal with that token directly, and probably aren’t technically capable enough to understand what that payload does or how to safely deal with it.
dr. luba
@JaySinWa: Missionaries or work with missionary groups. There are a lot of protestant missionaries in Ukraine (or were).
We’ve had lots of them trying to join Ukrainian FB groups lately so they can pray for us. Not particularly helpful, but….
The Pale Scot
@dr. luba:
Prods? They’re useful as mine detectors, don’t hesitate