…this asshole again:
‘This is ridiculous’: @GovRonDeSantis scolds students for wearing face masks during his @USouthFlorida visit https://t.co/v9XLjueCYi pic.twitter.com/TFeC6t6wL9
— WFLA NEWS (@WFLA) March 2, 2022
Florida’s governor is an angry dick who yells at teenagers at a public event for wearing masks. What business of his is it if they want to wear masks? What a jerk!
Anyhoo, on a semi-related note, I thought Biden’s speech was okay last night, but at first, I thought maybe he was missing an opportunity to inject partisanship into it — to play up the vast differences between the parties, one of which is fractiously democratic while the other is increasingly autocratic.
Instead, Biden went out of his way to be gracious, pretending that Republicans are united with Democrats to support Ukraine when in fact prominent Republicans — including their political leader and favorite Fox News propagandist — are rootin’ for Putin.
Biden appealed to Republicans to depoliticize the COVID-19 response, even as he talked about rolling back mandates that most Republicans have demagogued for fun and profit, killing people in the process. Biden rejected “defund the police,” which was never a policy he supported nor a plank in the party platform.
I wondered if it made sense to scold his own party’s activists for something they said two years ago instead of slagging the elected cultists who were making fools of themselves right before his eyes at that moment.
But then I watched the Republican response from Iowa Gov. Reynolds, and I began to think maybe Biden’s tone is part of a larger strategy. Reynolds mouthed the boilerplate anti-woke horse shit — Democrats are anti-cop, pro-crime, mask tyrants blah blah blah. It sounded jarring if you’d just finished listening to Biden.
Maybe that’s the point: to contrast an open-handed president who’s trying to find common ground with the peevish, snarling churls like DeSantis. I don’t know.
Open thread.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Punching down: A Republican tradition
Roger Moore
He doesn’t want people in the picture with him who undercut his political message. Republicans absolutely cannot handle dissent, even quiet dissent like continuing to wear a mask after they’ve decided it isn’t necessary.
Scout211
I saw that clip a few minutes ago. COVID theater? Such brilliance. ?
Baud
I didn’t see the speech, but I saw clips. Did Biden scold activists, or simply disagree with their policy?
Baud
As far as the masks go, keep wearing them to own the cons.
Alison Rose
Ron Dicksantis
Jerzy Russian
Christ, what an asshole! Referring to the current governor of Florida.
Scout211
@Baud:
Well, I did study at the COVID Theater of Performing Arts so I am well prepared.
Wakeshift
In general, I’m grateful to have a president and an administration that i trust to (try to) do the right thing.
Building on that idea, I try to temper my bloodlust for the dismemberment of the republican party with the sense that a coherent strategy of “do the right thing, as much as possible” is better in the long run than any set of tactical takedowns engaging with the assholes case by case, no matter how cathartic and gratifying those may be.
I have further realized that, in addition to voting, that’s *our* job.
Ken
Now I’m wondering if any of these has ever been an actual response, with its content based on what the President just said. Probably difficult to pull off — I’ve seen plenty of comedians manage it, but they’re more quick-witted than the majority of politicians.
cckids
What a bullying fuckwad DeSantis is.
scav
Oh! Look! Freedom and doing one’s own research is off the GQP menu again!
Calouste
@Roger Moore: Also, it is about them. Always about them. People couldn’t possibly do a thing they don’t like except to upset them. (My mother in law is like that as well). It’s pretty close to narcissism, other people only exist as a reflection of themselves.
Percysowner
@Calouste: My ex is like this. If his feelings are hurt, it must be because whoever WANTED him hurt. If he is angry someone MADE him angry. His reactions are never his own and he doesn’t examine any viewpoint other than his. It’s exhausting. The only real answers are to cave, which the media has done for a long time, fight, which doesn’t end well, or refuse to engage at all. Biden’s speech was part a way of refusing to engage.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Ob open thread, as (I think) Another Scott puts it
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Here’s what he said:
If he wanted to leave the activists out of it, he could have said something more neutral that conveyed the exact same idea, like “our police need more resources and training.” It was deliberate, the wording.
And maybe that’s good politics? I honestly don’t know. I agree “defund the police” hasn’t been helpful for the party, though I don’t think it’s been as catastrophic as some people claim.
The point is, he went there with the lefty activists, and he didn’t go there with the unhinged wingnut cultists, some of whom were showing their whole asses right there in the chamber. Not a word about 1/6. I guess that was by design?
mikefromArlington
this guy needs to die of covid.
Jager
I was enough of a smart ass when I was in college, I probably would have said, “Go fuck yourself Ron.”
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I agree that the wording is to make clear that he wants to distance himself from the slogan. I wouldn’t call that scolding, unless a great deal of political rhetoric involves scolding. (And maybe that’s how people want to view other people’s arguments.).
ETA: as to the parity argument, there is no reason Biden needs to distance himself from seditionists and trashy people.
prostratedragon
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: They must be so proud! (Actually one cop did register as sheepish even through hi helmet.)
Scout211
When the CDC recently relaxed the indoor mask requirement, they listed every US county and designated each county as green, yellow or red depending in various COVID numbers. I checked all the counties where my various family members live and all were either in green or yellow counties, except for one. My sister and BIL live in Orange County, Florida and that county was the only one listed as red, which should mean that indoor masking is still required. But according to the Governor, that’s just COVID theater. ?
matt
I’d take my mask off and start coughing, and cough the whole time ostentatiously in the direction of Ron Desantis.
Jeffro
Mask wearing = taking Covid seriously and acting collectively
which trumpov didn’t, and neither does mini-trumpov here. That’s why they can’t stand them. Biden won while campaigning from his basement and/or in a mask, right?
anyway, good on these kids for (unintentionally) reminding Americans that the GQP is only about student/parent ‘choice’ if you make THEIR choice
lowtechcyclist
Don’t know how reliable this guy is, but:
Chip Franklin.com on Twitter: “BREAKING: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is refusing to divest $300 million in Russian investments from Florida. Is he complicit?” / Twitter
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
Hard to be worse than Shell Oil, but DeSantis is up to the challenge.
Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)
Oh, for a student to tell Death Sentence: “Masks save lives, you don’t!”
Enhanced Voting Techniques
God damn ROFL, when I was a kid it was Reagan scolding kids for their dangerous drug habits, now it’s DeSantis scolding kids for their proper use of safety equipment. Talk about full circle. LOL
lowtechcyclist
I’ll keep wearing them to protect myself and my family. Owning the cons is a nice fringe benefit, though.
Lyrebird
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah that’s wild.
She’s amazing!
Speaking of amazing people who speak Russian, I don’t know if zhena gogolia will read this, but: apparently Anonymous got thousands of files and is asking for people to help translate.
The link is to a DKos thread where I saw it, you have to search for this comment:
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I’m not sure I’d describe it as a “parity” argument. Just pointing out that giving pride of place in a SOTU speech to swatting away a lefty slogan that has amounted to a fart in a whirlwind (AFAIK, not one dime of police funding has been removed) while not mentioning the literal elephants in the room who supported a coup attempt is a deliberate choice. Whether it’s wise or not, I guess time will tell.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Substantively, it is a fart in the wind. But with crime up, I can see why Biden would want to try to innoculate Dems from the anti-police line of attack.
Old Man Shadow
@matt: “Oh, man, thank you so much *cough cough*. You know, most people really freak out about my drug resistant tuberculosis, but you’re cool *cough cough*”
Brant
New rotating tag line: Governor Ron De Santis / Greg Abbot is an angry dick, who <<fill in the blank >>.
mrmoshpotato
Tell him to fuck off. Tell him loudly.
Kay
I know it doesn’t matter, but no one actually “defunded” the police and in my opinion is it not true that police need “more funding”.
They’re public servants. We’re permitted to prosecute them when they break the law, look at their clearance rate and general effectiveness at crime fighting and judge their performance. That’s allowed.
But i get it. It’s political. They demand complete deference and when they don’t it get it they punish the pols who dare to hold them to account.
NotMax
Angry because he’d planned to single out several with “you sure got purty lips?”
//
Baud
Here is the full text of the speech discussing law enforcement issues.
Nelle
Kay
@Baud:
Why don’t they “know the neighborhood” and “walk a beat” with current funding and training?
Baud
@Kay:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Mowgli
@Kay:
It’s all about the rhetoric and the weaponization of the phrase.
As someone said above, this is about Biden innoculating D’s against the “Defund the Police” slogan itself, that has become toxic to so-called “kitchen-table” voters that can’t be bothered to be informed about anything beyond a sound bite.
To be fair, it was a terrible slogan from the optics perspective.
mrmoshpotato
@Nelle: Ah yes.
gvg
@Scout211: Tampa/USF is not in Orange county.
Mind you, Its none of his business if student choose to mask, Plenty of people have decided they like not catching colds or avoiding allergens and some people are going to continue to mask for not even Covid reasons.
JAFD
It being almost spring in Gotham today, and yours truly thinking amybe is come-out-of-hibernation time, wondering if anyone else is interested in a BJ NYC gettogether sometime in April or May ? Assuming no new Covid variant.* Possibly outdoors, Union Square ? Central Park?
Thoughts ? Green balloon stockpiles ?
*For some reason I remembered the MDs in Trollope’s Barchester Towers, Dr. Lambda Mewnew and Dr. Omicron Pye ….
Kay
@Mowgli:
Ok, whatever. We’ll pretend someone or other “defunded the police” when police budgets go up every year and go back to complete deference towards police where we aren’t even permitted to ask if they’re doing their jobs. Walking a beat (actually, always driving, but we’re pretending here so why not go with it) and “knowing the neighborhood” isn’t a special, extraordinary request. It’s the job. You know all of this alleged “disrespect” of police perfectly coincided with a couple, not a lot, a couple of police officers being prosecuted for breaking the law. That’s when they got really mad at us. How dare we.
Yarrow
@Mowgli: This is exactly right. The rightwing has weaponized the phrase. It’s easy to do because it sounds like you want to bankrupt the police, which sounds scary. Biden aimed to inoculate the Dems by saying what he said last night. That’s all that was about.
Mallard Filmore
@JAFD:
I thought Metropolis is NYC and Gotham is Chicago.
Skepticat
The expression on DeInsanity’s aide’s face made me want to punch him through the screen. It did look as though one of the young men kept his mask on. I can’t wait for my nephew and his husband to get jobs far away from Floriduh.
Bill Arnold
@Baud:
I will keep wearing a mask until the local rate is less than 2 new cases per day per 100K. (At about 12 now.) If anyone gives me shit (so far, no, whew) I will call them gullible selfish ignorant assholes (or similar), who have not studied the new CDC mask guidance document and probably have not read any scientific papers on COVID-19. If they get belligerent, they will learn fear.
eversor
@Betty Cracker:
Except it DID matter. You have people on the right who will never vote for a Democrat because abortion, prayer in schools, lgbtq, traditional gender roles, promiscuity, aka Christians. Then you have the out and out white nationalists. Both of these groups know what they want doesn’t sell to the mushy middle. But they also know that same middle hates lefty social engineering. So they take quotes like “defund the police” and drive that wedge for all it’s worth.
And it works. People stay the fuck home or they do an honest look at their lives and realize that lefty stuff might hit them more than the crazy right wing stuff and punch for the Republican.
And it works, it’s smart, it’s effective.
Kay
@Mowgli:
We can throw 350 billion into it but good policy or reforms aren’t going to come out of it because it is built on a fantasy that we had “funded” police and then we had “defunded” police. None of that actually happened.
I just ask that if you’re going to hire social workers to do police work perhaps we could look at police staffing? If social workers are doing half of it then I don’t know why we need the same number of officers. And pay them like police.
UncleEbeneezer
@Baud: The concept of reducing police budgets in order to invest in communities and move certain duties away from armed officers with the goal of reducing police violence, incarcerations and even make the job of policing more efficient and safe for officers is nothing new. People have been pushing variations of this overall strategy since at least the 60’s here in Los Angeles. Of course the other side has always responded in bad faith with Soft-On-Crime , Pro-Crime and Anti-Police accusations, because of course they would. So we were probably gonna see major white-lash regardless of the terminology but damn…Defund was just like putting everything on a tee for the other side. Even within police reform spaces that I am a part of (where people are actively FOR major police reforms), we have had to waste SO MUCH time correcting, clarifying, refuting this stuff to talk people down from their gut reaction to the hashtag/phrase that I wonder how much it has actually helped to set back the coalition/work. It’s frustrating, to say the least, since when you explain some of these concepts in different framings, most reasonable people think they are great ideas. The fact that Dem politicians still feel the need to distance themselves from it kind of proves the point that there were probably much better slogans worth trying.
Scout211
@gvg:
I was just trying to point out that counties in Florida are in the category that the CDC designates as high, which means indoor masks are highly recommended. DeSantis calls masks theater.
Google tells me that USF is in Hillsborough County?
That county is also list as high.
Taken4Granite
@Kay: I don’t know about Ohio, but here in New Hampshire and surrounding states there are lots of vacancies in law enforcement. I just heard today that one of the officers in my town has been poached by the State Police in a neighboring state, leaving our force at 2/3 its authorized numbers.
It may be the case that we really don’t need that many police officers. If my town’s police force were at full authorized strength we would have one cop for about every 700 residents. Which seems high for a town and state with such a low crime rate.
But if we do decide we need that many police officers, then those officers need better training than what has been typical in many US police departments, and that costs money. We also need to pay them enough to want to stay with the department.
Kay
DeSantis is mad that the students are ruining his photo op. That’s why he’s yelling at them. They’re just props behind him.
What a shame that we subject them to this bullshit. They deserve better.
Kay
@Taken4Granite:
There’s lot of vacancies in everything. It’s a tight labor market. I don’t know about “training”. I’ve interacted with police in my job for 20 years and some of them are good and some of them are bad and if I had to guess I think “temperament” and the workplace culture in their department plays a much larger role than training. They can’t be hotheads, they can’t be biased or bigoted and they can’t hate the job.
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: In the runup to last year’s New York City Mayoral primary, I read of a poll result that struck me. The question asked what was the most important issue voters wanted the new mayor to deal with. 57% said violent crime, higher than any other issue. New Yorkers seem like pretty aware people who aren’t just bamboozled by propaganda, so I believed that this was a real problem for them. It may not be for me, but I recognize that New Yorkers and people like them are a big piece of the Democratic coalition.
So I think Joe Biden did the right thing by taking the slogan “defund the police” head on. This set off a lively debate on Twitter (and blogs) that spilled into today on the timeline of “Mr. Weeks” (Wonderking82). Mr. Weeks, whose day job is counseling Bronx schoolkids, answered someone’s assertion that addressing root causes of violence, not policing, is more critical by saying:
Of course this is just one New York City Democrat’s perspective. But to me it counts as much as that of any “activist,” and I think Joe Biden was speaking to the experience of Democratic base voters like this school counselor.
@Wonderking82 does not seem to be a particularly conservative Democrat. I remember how, after one of Mayor Eric Adams’ early misteps, he commented that he was frustated because New Yorkers might have had Maya Wiley as Mayor instead of Adams. But, he said, when Wiley picked up on the “defund the police” slogan he knew she would lose.
JCJ
@Betty Cracker:
The loathsome Ron Johnson has mentioned “Democrat policies” including defunding the police as a reason he is seeking re-election when he had previously stated he would not. He has an ad with video of the shithead driving into the Waukesha Christmas parade as an example of the results of said “Democrat policies”. A statement like Biden’s seems an attempt to lessen that attack.
Kay
It’s Bill Clinton’s 100k new cops, except thankfully without Bill Clinton’s embrace of “boot camps” for juveniles, which were an absolute fucking disaster.
Lums Better Half
Leftism is, always has been, and always will be, illegitimate in American politics.
If Democrats were smart they would harshly sanction any and all PDLs.
Rob
I have no words for DeSantis’s action.
MisterDancer
Anyone recall The Bill Clinton campaign’s use of Sister Souljah to flag that he wasn’t “one of those kinds of Democrats?”
I do. That was ugly and divisive, a stain on his rep and a serious part of why the accusations of racial bias in the 2007 Primary season landed so hard, once Obama won Iowa.
I’ve said a lot, here, about That Slogan, and how people react to it/engage it, and I’m not gonna rehash my still-raw feelings on the matter. I will say that I did see some consternation on Twitter from people I generally respect on Biden’s verbiage…and that Baud’s extended quote points out why it didn’t hit me so hard.
Part of this is that people rely on media discussions/descriptions of activism, which are at least as suspect as what we get from the media on what politicos are doing and saying — moreso,I think, because most of these folx aren’t “important” from mainstream media’s POV. It’s part of why I try to pay them some mind; not just because it might be my body in the street next, but because their ideas/vision (and variety thereof) can get twisted with a quickness…
…yet so, too, do too many politicians. We talk about that here all the damn time, that it’s seemingly easier to stand for next-to-nothing save getting a rise outta people, than to actually do the hard work of building coalitions and structuring laws. And we also talk about how a lot of media reporting is more about getting that rise as well, over communicating nuance.
It’s not great that a lot of activists are reacting, possibly, to that reported one-liner over the nuance I think Biden is trying to bring. Yet I’m also not too invested to throw stones over the situation at this point.
trollhattan
@lowtechcyclist: Compare and contrast.
TBH I don’t know how much direct influence the governor has over the CalPERS portfolio. They, you know, hire people for that and have their own managing board. I assume they’ll act, regardless.
raven
Really, debating “defund the police” again??? Sheesh.
Cameron
Is it true that “Fuck you, DeSantis” flies under the radar as “Let’s go pantsless?”
Baud
@raven:
Eh, it was brought up in the SOTU. It’s not so random this time.
Kay
@Geminid:
Is there anything at all that centrist Democrats have done or could do that would harm Democrats politically? Or is it entirely the fault of “progressives” that Biden is at 40?
Do centrists ever do any analysis of how politically popular their positions are? Or is that analysis restricted to progressives?
They’re the majority. They run the policy agenda. Why do they never take responsibility for the political fortunes of the Democratic Party?
I don’t even think this is good for the Party. If all they have to do is point fingers to the Left everytime they lose an election they never do any analysis of their own work.
Matt McIrvin
I’ve been carrying around a spare mask in case something happens to the one I’m wearing.
It occurs to me that an incident like this would have been a perfect opportunity to make use of it–if some asshole like DeSantis tells me to take my mask off, whip it out and put it on over my existing mask.
Baud
@Kay:
I disagree that centrists are the majority (maybe you label them differently), but who here has questioned the harm they (at least Manchin and Sinema) have done to the party?
Kay
@Matt McIrvin:
I’m sorry they had to be part of it. They don’t know any better. The school should decline to provide props for his stupid fucking photo op. He’s horrible and disrespectful and they shouldn’t be subjected to it.
He’s annoyed that they’re messing up his campaign event.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I have this crazy theory that omicron (now fading) and gas prices (probably rising) have more to do with Dem approval ratings than AOC (!) or Joe Manchin.
Let’s all hope Putin has a massive heart attack in the next few hours.
Betty Cracker
@eversor: Lots of people say that, but I’ve seen zero hard evidence to back it up. Happy to change my mind if you can link to something more substantial than wingnut crowing/centrist whining. I agree it’s a problematic slogan because it doesn’t mean what it sounds like it means. I’m personally sick of hearing about it. But that’s not the same as “it works.”
Kay
@Baud:
I just cannot believe we are getting ready to blame another loss on “defund the police”. It’s ludicrous. Worse, it lets the Party completely off the hook for any painful, real analysis of why they are in this predicament. They can sideline progressives if they want. It won’t work. They’re not the reason Biden has dropped 40 with young people and is at 70 with Democrats, but the Democratic Party would prefer not to look at anything else, so I guess we won’t.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I agree the pandemic dragging on, plus inflation, etc., is a big drag on Biden. That said, I don’t think the Manchin/Sinema Show was without cost either.
zhena gogolia
Ya think? The man is a master. I underestimated him.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I don’t know what hard evidence would be. Here’s Keith Ellison, who’s no centrist.
I thought there was a post-election report that surveyed voters, but I can’t locate it now.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
At least they stopped allowing him to pretend he’s negotiating, or really working at all. I’m grateful for that.
Baud
@Kay:
Who’s blaming the next losses on that? We haven’t even lost yet.
Villago Delenda Est
“This is ridiculous”, sez DeathSantis. Yes, you moron, you are ridiculous. At all times.
NotMax
@JAFD
Contemplating possibly* going to see Mom in NY, maybe August.
A B-J potluck picnic would be fun!
*if the stars of circumstances then are aligned
Kay
@Villago Delenda Est:
He has such a squeaky, whiny voice. I’m suprised the manly men of the Right pegged him as tough guy.
Roger Moore
@Mallard Filmore:
Nope; they’re both New York. Superman and Batman started as standalone comics, and each used a nickname for New York to emphasize that it was a fantasy universe rather than the real city. They didn’t crossover until they had been in publication for well over a decade, by which time the names for their fictional version of New York were well established.
Marvel was actually really bold by setting its comics in New York and by planning from the beginning to have their characters live in a shared universe. To some extent, this is why the MCU works as well as it does. The characters were always conceived of as being available for crossovers, while the DC characters- at least the really big ones- weren’t.
Kay
@Taken4Granite:
We have a good police agency here (the city police) and a poor quality police agency (the county police) and it isn’t training. It’s a culture that hires for good/bad. They don’t hire for the attributes and skills that would make one good with the public and it systemic, because the people who do the hiring have the same problem as the people THEY are hiring. You can’t train around that. You have to HIRE around it.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I keep thinking there must be some conclusive data since the concept that those three words are killing the party is so widespread, but I’ve looked, and I haven’t found anything except lots of opinions.
I think there was a survey where people said they don’t like the slogan, which again, I agree is a bad slogan. (I’d probably tell a pollster I don’t like if asked.) But I’ve found zero evidence it moved any votes.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I imagine people around Sergey Shoygu, possibly people named Sergey Shoygu, must be getting very nervous around windows and staircases
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Kay:
If we lose, I’ll blame it on inflation, the pandemic dragging on, rising crime, and the ongoing culture wars. However, my circle is pretty broad. I know leftist activists who actually believe we don’t need police at all, which I think is crazy, and conservative voters who didn’t like Trump but were completely freaked out by the ‘defund the police’ rhetoric. Its hard not get upset when that slogan does motivate people you know to vote for Republicans who probably would have stayed home.
Southern Goth
@Betty Cracker:
It actually polled better than “Defund NCIS.”
Salty Sam
“The Democrat party is soft on crime!”
“The Democrat party wants to de-fund the police!”
“The Democrat party is weak on national defense- a bunch of Neville Chamberlain appeasement monkeys!”
“The Democrat party buys votes from minorities with welfare- remember the Obama-watch?!”
“The Democrat party is the real racists! It was Democrats who founded the KKK!”
Joe Biden can say “Fund-not-De-fund the police as much as he wants, but the minds that need to be changed are impervious to it. They have their narrative, planted by the Noize Machine and nurtured by Media, and nothing will change them.
JaneE
@Baud: The first few days after the public health orders were rescinded it seemed like the same or even more people were masking here. At least they weren’t taking off their masks when they walked outside or on the city streets. I plan to keep it on when I am inside until I feel safe enough to quit.
Geminid
@Kay: I did not say anything about centrists or progressives, but was talking about Democrats who deserve to have their real needs met. I am not blaming a wing of the party for any failures. I leave that to the partisans of the two wings, who are much more judgemental than the actual members of the House Democratic Caucus.
But since you are talking about “Progressives,” or liberals, and “Centrists.” or moderates, how do you feel about Tim Ryan as a Senate candidate in Ohio? You know he’s part of the moderate House majority that you dismiss as “Centrists.”
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
What’s frustrating about the distraction is that the main goal was never to defund the police (however interpreted). The main goal was to deter unnecessary police violence and hold them accountable, particularly when the kill under black people. Defunding was just one element of how to do that.
JaneE
Assuming you watched both the SOTU and the GOP response, it had to be a jarring contrast. That is a good metaphor for who lives in reality and who just ignores it.
WaterGirl
@Baud: This is one more example of Biden being a pragmatist.
He knows we can’t win he argument re: what people were attempting to do with defund the police, so he’s trying to take the conversation off the board. He’s trying to neutralize that as a weapon because they sure as hell will try to use it against us.
@Betty Cracker:
When I used to listen to Pod Save America, they had research that showed that defund the police did hurt us in some races. But I don’t recall the details. sorry!
Baud
@JaneE:
Yeah, assuming cases don’t spike again, I’ll demask slowly. Am probably never in places like airplanes.
Bostondreams
@Roger Moore:
A few years ago, there was a great Marvel/DC crossover, and Marvel characters crossed into the DC Universe. Good throwaway line: “wow, this Earth is so big it has room for three New Yorks!” or something like that :)
Matt
It is – Biden’s not on a different team than the fascists, he just knows how to act polite.
He’s been a cop-fluffer his entire political career, and inconvenient facts like “the cops are a murderous white-supremacist gang” aren’t going to put a crimp in that.
Roger Moore
@Betty Cracker:
The thing that’s really dangerous about the “defund the police” slogan is that the people who originated it mean it in exactly the sense the Democrats are trying to run from. They genuinely want to cut police funding to zero, and they’re more than happy to say exactly that. There aren’t a lot of them, but the people who picked up the slogan to mean police reform were idiots to tie their very reasonable goals to a slogan from people with completely unreasonable goals.
Baud
OT. Judge Jackson’s confirmation hearings will begin on March 21.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Agreed. Kay alluded to something earlier which probably should get more attention in this debate, i.e., that sheriffs, police chiefs, police unions, etc., are political actors, and they gin up this conflict every time their authority is questioned. Regular as clockwork!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
always vaguely wondered about the origin of the name, finally remembered to use this “internet” thing to find out
also
Roger Moore
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I would be careful about interpreting stories of soldiers grabbing whatever food they can find. Soldiers have looted food for as long as there have been soldiers, and they tend to do it even when they’re well supplied. It’s often a sign of bad discipline more than bad supply.
O. Felix Culpa
@Roger Moore:
This. I know several such activists IRL. They want to abolish all police and the entire prison system, both of which need serious revamping, but total abolition? The RWers are, as ever, taking the slogans of a fringe and smearing all Dems with it, and doing it effectively among low-info voters IMO. Unfortunately I don’t have any stats at hand to back up my experience and impressions.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Absolutely.
Kay
@Geminid:
Of course they deserve to have their real needs met. But it is the worst kind of oversimplification to say glorifying police or even hiring more of them means they will do ordinary protective policing work in black communities. Ask why they aren’t on that woman’s street. Ask why she can’t get anyone to write a report for a stolen bike or to get loiterers off her corner.
10.4 billion. Not enough? Can we ask why that’s not enough to “walk a beat” or “know the neighborhood”, or should we just give them another 350 billion and hope they start “community policing”, although we have been asking them nicely to do that for 20 years.
I agree that lower income people and black people and minorities should get public safety services. Absolutely. Is the reason they aren’t getting it because 11 progressives said “defund the police”?
Baud
@Baud:
particularly when the kill under black people = particularly when they kill
underblack peopleRoger Moore
@O. Felix Culpa:
We had a discussion about this recently. The same way that White people are all individuals but minorities have to answer for the wrongs of any member of their group, Republicans are all individuals while Democrats have to answer for the mistakes of anyone in their party. This makes it really easy for Republicans to smear the Democrats with the worst decisions of anyone with a (D) after their name, or even anyone who looks like they ought to have one [ETA: IYKWIMAITYD]. In the specific case of “defund the police”, it was idiocy to co-opt the slogan, because it makes the smears that much easier.
Baud
@Roger Moore:
Seconded.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
anybody have this on their bingo card?
O. Felix Culpa
@Roger Moore:
Well put. And the MSM are actively complicit with this too.
prostratedragon
@O. Felix Culpa: I’m reminded of Richard Pryor, who said that at one time his own views were like those of the complete defunders. Then he did some comedy shows in prisons, and actually talked to some inmates, concluding that there really are people who need to be somewhere apart.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yes. Pretty predictable actually.
germy
This photo:
Quiltingfool
Need some Liberal Redneck Trae Crowder? Here ya go
https://twitter.com/traecrowder/status/1499145957904039939?s=20&t=NNOnv6SOUU05t4qL8URJNw
Kay
@Geminid:
Here’s some police reforms that people would probably get behind:
They have a workplace culture problem. You can make them sit for all the over-priced “trainings” you want and it won’t dent it. This is entitilement and a lack of accountability. Kissing their ass and flying the thin blue line flag isn’t going to fix it.
Citizen Alan
@JAFD: April, please. I’m done with classes in mid may and, sadly, will be leaving for … somewhere.
Baud
@germy:
If Republicans were Democrats, we could successfully smear the whole party with those two.
UncleEbeneezer
@MisterDancer: “Part of this is that people rely on media discussions/descriptions of activism, which are at least as suspect as what we get from the media on what politicos are doing and saying — moreso,I think, because most of these folx aren’t “important” from mainstream media’s POV.”
Amen. And may I just add that in my experience in police reform spaces, the slogan really isn’t anywhere near as popular as many people (and Twitter) would lead one to believe. And it’s not just the media. Part of the problem is because it feels good and defiant and righteous (I agree!) which appeals to alot of for-lack-of-a-better-term Allies, who then latched onto it and help perpetuate the myth that it is the consensus among activists and organizers. In reality, many groups with lots of voices and input from the most effected communities looked at it and decided: “yeah, great concept, bad slogan” and moved on.
Also, I think it’s really important to remember that Activists are not a monolith and that they can be just as petty, attention-seeking, contrarian and unwilling to ever admit they are wrong, as anyone else. IE- They can be just as loud and wrong as anybody. We can value their work while also being aware of the fact that they aren’t superheroes, and that the solutions they advocate can be just as right in theory, but not in practice, as any other attempt to solve really complicated and dynamic problems in our society.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
a fucking six. hundred. million. dollar…. boat
two helicopter pads, just in case, you know how it is
Hoodie
@Betty Cracker: seemed like an unnecessary own goal when Black Lives Matter was having positive results in basically the same arena. Generally, negatively phrased slogans like defund the police don’t inspire positive actions. I think some activists may have fallen in love with it as a performative tool with the thought it would result in some sort of consciousness raising, but that’s a vanishingly small group. The bigger problem is that right wing activists look for these types of negative code phrases and distort them into caricatures. CRT is another example.
Kay
Please be true. And Germany wins for getting the first one :)
Kay
Guffaw. 1000 sofa cushions!
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Is it wrong for me to want Bezos and Musk to invade Ukraine?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I don’t follow the game, but I know Chelsea is huge; and I don’t trust this guy, but… maybe a sign that UK-based oligarchs are getting nervous? Abramovich selling the Chelsea football club
WaterGirl
@Baud: That’s nearly 4 weeks from when he put her forward. :-(
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
For somebody who wants the ability to vanish at the drop of a (very nice) hat and disappear, it must be a little disquieting that your 512-foot floating town is child’s play to track around the globe by civilian satellites. “Is now to be deploying cloaking device, deploy!” [crew places bag over head]
Geminid
@Betty Cracker: There is only the indirect evidence of Republicans trying to move votes with this slogan. But just because they tried doesn’t mean it worked.
Crime is a concern for voters, though, as much or more among Democrats as among Republicans. Politicians have to address the issue, and you cannot address crime without speaking to the criminal justice system including policing.
I thought Biden handled this well and said a lot of good things about what he was going to do. It’s true he did not have to say what he wouldn’t do, but I don’t think he was disrespecting the activists who came up with the slogan just because he was disagreeing with them.
I respect the activists who created this slogan. It was born out of their lived experience as Black people. But were they the ones who tried to make it stand for Democratic party policy? I think that was the white leftists who ostensibly champion the oppressed, but in fact use these injustices to grind their anti-establishment axes. And those are the people who will cry the loudest about Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi throwing them under the bus.
As to a positive program for crime and criminal justice, you will get to see at first hand how Val Demings addresses these issues in her Senate campaign, where they will certainly come up. And just over the border, Stacey Abrams will show how a very shrewd and practical politician handles them. She gave a glimpse last month in a really good interview in Atlanta.capitalbnews.org, titled “Stacy Abrams and her Vision of ‘One Georgia’.”
Calouste
@Kay: That crew of 96 is 12-15 people to actually run the ship, and 80 domestic servants.
WaterGirl
@Kay: If hiring more police gets Biden and democrats elected, that’s a trade-off I can live with. But they have way too much power, and we need to do something about that.
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Chelsea is up there with Man U, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal as elite Premiere League billionaires’ baubles.
As sports crazy as we are in the States, they’re on a different level.
Calouste
@trollhattan: It wasn’t particularly hard to track because it had been in a dock in Hamburg for a few months for a refitting.
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
fixed that for him.
WaterGirl
@germy: Who is the cat and who are the two women in the upper left?
Subsole
@Roger Moore: Yeah. After a month of Russian surplus MREs eaten cold, I’d probably be stripping every gas station I saw of chips, soda and anything else edible.
Hell, I’d probably do it after a month of American MREs eaten warm.
Ken
Do I want to try to imagine how 24 guests will use 1000 sofa cushions? World’s largest pillow fort? Something more in Rule 34 territory?
Kay
I told you Manchin and Sinema’s top priority was protecting the Trump tax cuts, and it is:
They both could have saved a lot of time if they had simply admitted at the outset that they had no intention of repealing the Trump tax cuts. The rest was all bullshit.
The Manchin and Sinema number was always the amount they could spend while preserving massive tax cuts for billionaires and corporations. These two would throw themselves in front of a train to protect those tax cuts. It’s all they care about.
Baud
@Kay:
I agree with what you say, but the quote in the block quote says the opposite, at least with respect to Manchin. Not that I trust what he says.
Kay
Next time Democrats are in power they should have only one goal- rejigger the tax code so it’s no longer a billionaires dream. All the rest is details.
It all starts there. Everything else will be much easier to solve if they do that one thing. They can’t this time- Manchin and Sinema will never allow it- but if they ever have 52 again it is the single most important thing they could do for the country.
citizen dave
desantis is over the top on the loathsome scale. I really hope that florida man and woman don’t foist him on the rest of us.
Anyhoo, coming late to this thread, but “this asshole again” seems a particularly apt campaign slogan for the man; and maybe even both sides. In the republican world, asshole is a positive. It may have been our blogfather, but anyway I think it was here a long time ago where someone was saying all you to do to figure out the R position is to think of the asshole thing, and they will do or support that one. It works.
debbie
@Jerzy Russian:
Can’t he be reported to the principal for bullying???
Meanwhile, the Ohio GOP is unhappy with Biden because he mentioned the Intel semiconductor manufacturing plant that will be opening here. The assistant governor, John Husted, noted that Biden was very unpopular and it wasn’t surprising he’d try to attach himself to this successful project wholly obtained by himself and other state officials. ? ?
Kay
@Baud:
It doesn’t. They’re using the phrase that Democrats use and attributing it to Manchin. He didn’t say this- the idiot reporter filled it in:
“Surtaxes”. Guffaw. Its the same bullshit dodge they used for the infrastructure bill.
When the Manchin and Sinema bill comes out of production I guarantee there won’t be a single income tax increase in it. Democrats will take it because they have to, but the next time they have 50 Democrats they should rewrite the tax code and take it from our current “corrupt plutocrat code” to a decent countries code. 90% of the problems we’re facing get much easier with that one act. Want to make a dent in inequality? Start taxing them again. Want a less corrupt country? Start taxing them again. It’s the only thing that really matters.
Baud
@Kay:
Ok, thanks. I’ll take anything positive, but no more negotiations in front of the media. That’s all I ask.
Kay
I never resented paying income taxes until the Trump tax cuts. Just the absolutely obscene disparity between what ordinary tax payers got and the wealthiest people in the country got- it’s insulting and it makes you feel not like a good citizen, but instead a sucker.
Democrats should fix it. It isn’t fair. They should stop letting Republicans bleed the public.
JAFD
@Citizen Alan: OK, Assuming no one wants to do this on Easter / Passover weekend, that leaves:
Sat 4/3, Sun 4/4, Sat 4/9, Sun 4/10, Sat 4/23, Sun 4/24, Sun 4/30, and maybe May Day
Who has to rule out any of these dates ? (assuming you would be there on some other date.)
Pass the word !
Noname
@WaterGirl: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/woman-yelling-at-a-cat
sherparick1
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Partly punching down, but also an example of getting high on one’s own supply. DeathSantis believe the conservative news sources, libertarian fanatics, & Christianist plutocrats that make up the dark network that controls the Republican Party. Because of his affinity for these bullshit artists, he actually now believes the BS. “That COVID is no worse than the flu.” “That masks don’t help.” “That vaccination does not stop infection so useless.” “That Fauci secretly caused the pandemic to sabotage Trump and gain power.” He almost has to believe these things because since he has been sabotaging the public health campaign for two years & probably creating circumstances that kill twice as many people who would have died of COVID-19 anyway, he would have to be a monster. Even monsters don’t like to believe they are monsters. So when he sees the students wearing masks, he just believes, as he said, it is performance BS to taunt him.
Paul in KY
@Kay: ‘Defund the Police’ is a horrible slogan. Right up there with the Social Democrats letting the nutwad minority in their party claim the title ‘Bolsheviks’ (The Majority).
I understand Pres. Biden wanting to kill it.
Paul in KY
@Yarrow: Wouldn’t surprise me if the person who thought it up or pushed it was a Repub plant. It’s that bad.
Paul in KY
@Baud: It was about removing police from enforcing various petty laws that impose fines. Of course, as you know, they use the ‘enforcement’ of those laws to try and fish for probable cause to search & harrass people.
Diceros bicornis
@JAFD: New York? In May? I’ll be back stateside for a long postponed vacation in mid May and would totally show up for this!