Germans Seize Russian Billionaire Alisher Usmanov’s Mega-Yacht—the 512-foot yacht Dilbar, valued at nearly $600 million.https://t.co/i9ceO0uvmA
— Julia Davis (@JuliaDavisNews) March 2, 2022
Russian billionaire Alisher Usmanov was sanctioned by the European Union on Monday. Two days later, Forbes has learned from three sources in the yacht industry that one of his prized possessions—the 512-foot yacht Dilbar, valued at nearly $600 million—has been seized by German authorities in the northern city of Hamburg.
The ship has been in the Hamburg shipyards of German shipbuilding firm Blohm+Voss since late October for a refitting job. Sources who spoke to Forbes said that the German government froze the asset and that, likely as a result, Blohm+Voss employees who had been working on the yacht didn’t show up to work on Wednesday. Representatives for Blohm+Voss and Usmanov didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment…
The yacht is part of Usmanov’s estimated multibillion dollar fortune, which spans stakes in iron ore and steel giant Metalloinvest and consumer electronics firm Xiaomi, as well as smaller holdings in telecom, mining and media. One of the earliest investors in Facebook along with fellow billionaire Yuri Milner, Usmanov also owns extensive real estate assets in the West, ranging from two estates in the UK—Beechwood House in London and Sutton Place in Surrey, valued at a combined $280 million—to luxury homes in Munich, Germany; Lausanne, Switzerland; Monaco; and Sardinia…
He’s not the only Russian billionaire with a mega-yacht: Forbes and yacht valuation experts VesselsValue tracked down 32 of them. Despite being hit by EU sanctions on Monday, Usmanov is yet to comment on them or on the war in Ukraine.
“I just want to explain to you so that you wouldn’t be jealous. I bought everything I own, including my wonderful boat and the airplane. Because I live in happiness, [Navalny], unlike you.”
-Oligarch Usmanov, a few years ago
Today: yacht got seized. pic.twitter.com/Rql8LUkJQn
— John Scott-Railton (@jsrailton) March 2, 2022
Maybe Peter Thiel can pick up a few — kopeks on the ruble! — for his Seastead dream project…
Sanctioned Russian billionaire's $600mil, 512ft, 96 crew, ? largest motor yacht by gross tonnage, SEIZED by Germany authorities:
-largest ever yacht swimming pool
-2 heli pads
-sauna
-beauty salon
-gym
-12 suites32 Russian oligarchs have mega-yachtshttps://t.co/dND8JmrAMW
— Jon Liedtke???? (@jonliedtke) March 2, 2022
And France follows suit, per Reuters:
French customs have seized a yacht belonging to Rosneft (ROSN.MM) boss Igor Sechin as it tried to leave the Mediterranean port of La Ciotat in a breach of EU sanctions on Russian oligarchs, Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said…
The 88-metre “Amore Vero” arrived in La Ciotat on Jan.3 and was due to stay there until April 1st for repairs, the finance ministry said in a statement, adding that the vessel was subject to the new sanctions.
But on Wednesday, customs officers noted the yacht was “taking steps to sail off urgently, without the repair works being over,” the statement said, adding that the officers therefore decided to seize it.
The finance ministry said the yacht belongs to a company whose main shareholder is Sechin, a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin. It did not name the company.
Monaco-based Imperial Yachts, which according to Refinitiv data is linked to Amore Vero, told Reuters the yacht was owned by a firm called Kazimo, which appointed them as managers of the boat in 2018.
“The individual you name is not connected with either Kazimo nor the yacht,” a representative for Imperial Yachts told Reuters, when asked about Sechin…
French authorities on Thursday also seized a Russian-owned cargo vessel in the port of Lorient, Brittany.
Privateers versus freebooters, me hearties!
Biden and allies are coming for Russian billionaires’ yachts: Forbes tracked down 32. Here’s where to find them: https://t.co/aUyOJKycOj pic.twitter.com/ARGErbHDwt
— Forbes (@Forbes) March 3, 2022
Party-pooping voice of reason:
the market for these things at auction can’t be *that* big once you factor out russian money, right (i am probably very wrong) https://t.co/ovXyt72NEG
— GOLIKEHELLMACHINE (@golikehellmachi) March 2, 2022
they're also going to be owned by governments, which is going to make it harder to buy them through the types of dirty money schemes these things are normally purchased through
— GOLIKEHELLMACHINE (@golikehellmachi) March 2, 2022
these things are the kind of thing that only billionaire oligarchs can realistically afford to operate and maintain for any length of time, they probably all ought to be stripped and demolished
— GOLIKEHELLMACHINE (@golikehellmachi) March 2, 2022
MazeDancer
More, please.
Also apartments, villas, townhouses.
Dorothy A. Winsor
That yacht’s very existence is a crime.
Keith P.
What to do with the mega-yacht is quite obvious: “Below Deck: Oligayacht”
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Keith P.: Strip them for salvage and then destroy them
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Naval forces around the world need target vessels for practice.
West of the Rockies
Now may you live in misery and squalor, pig.
Another Scott
Seizing ill gotten gains, etc., is good. I share Dan Davies (in the UK) concern that it be done legally (and correctly) though…
Being sloppy and throwing out the rules has a way of damaging the rest of us.
Cheers,
Scott.
The Dangerman
Someday fairly soon, assuming we survive this crisis, there will be a long line of Russians waiting to piss on Putin’s grave after downing some Vodka.
Old School
Can I just take one of their cars? I’d have more use for that.
Alison Rose
To quote the name of a FB tag group I’m in, white people receiving consequences is my kink
especially obscenely rich white people
scav
There could be a flurry of superhero movies that involve the destruction of yachts — save a few at least for James Bond! — Film from multiple angles and we could watch the boom for decades, rather like that plummeting steam engine.
trollhattan
@Keith P.:
Thinking they can be repurposed to house (nicely) Ukrainian refugees. When that mission is over, give them to oceanographers to become research vessels.
Searcher
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I’m thinking a mega yacht would be a way nicer homeless shelter.
sdhays
@Another Scott: You’re probably right, but if ever there was a time to make things move faster than the normal court procedures, it’s now. There is, after all, a war on.
Ken
@Another Scott: I was wondering about the legal justifications. I assume they would be different in each country?
Maybe I’m reading too much into the report from France above, but it sounds like their excuse was “believe owner was planning to leave without paying repair bill”. Not paying bills/taxes could cover the seizures for a lot of these assets, with the Russians unable to transfer funds.
japa21
I wonder if insurance companies are cancelling policies on these yachts. Considering one instance already, I suspect there will be more cases of vandalism and/or sinking.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
So Dumb Ass Donny has now turned on Putin according to Daily Kos. Putin has lost even number one Vald Pal. I wonder who long before Trump himself starts denying he wasn’t president between 2016 and 2020 and claiming that was Hillary Clinton.
Gin & Tonic
@Another Scott: When you consider yourself bound by rules which your adversary freely ignores, you are bound to lose.
Nope
I don’t have a yacht, so I have a few of questions for anyone who knows something about people who do:
Scout211
And some of those yachts are heading to Maldives. Source.
Ken
@Scout211: Are the Somali pirates still a thing?
Motivated Seller
They should beach them in front of a Russian luxury sea-side resort, then one at a time, scuttle them with Ukranian sledge hammers and Molotov cocktails, while live-streaming for every Oligarch to see.
sdhays
@sdhays: Of course, here in the US, all the police need is to see the money/asset and seize it because it looked at them funny. The asset is then imprisoned until the local police department decides to free it through the “new Hummer” fund.
Scout211
@Scout211:
Added: The Maldives, an Indian Ocean island nation, does not have an extradition treaty with the US.
West of the Rockies
@Scout211:
Be a shame if an enterprising young anarchist blew them up.
Gin & Tonic
Huge crowds in St. Petersburg. Yeah, no, not at an anti-war protest, at the IKEA close-out sale (store closing tomorrow.) Gotta get those bargains while we commit genocide.
Paranoid Android
Person from Germany here- according to German media it’s unclear whether the yacht has really been seized. There’s no official confirmation.
Mike
Hard to imagine a 512-foot yacht. The destroyer I spent three years on was 555 feet long, with a crew of about a 300.
different-church-lady
I’m all for being unfair to assholes, but I’ve really been wondering why all this shit was cool with the international community until the invasion. Like, it was illegal but everyone just let it slide with a wink until war crimes began? Or are we now just in a fuck it, if we can’t get into the shooting war we’re just gonna do economic warfare and damn the rules mode?
Ksmiami
@Another Scott: FFS… humans are being reduced to rubble. Seize it all.
Scout211
And now there are five.
trollhattan
Speaking of sailing the oceans blue, heard this a.m. about 10% of the total merchant marine crew are Russian (over 100,000 and 4% are Ukrainian.
Leto
@Dorothy A. Winsor: repurpose them into hospital ships. They have helipads for medical transport, large galleys to serve food, I’m sure there’s plenty of places for storage, but then you’d need someone like Suzanne to work the hospital portion. I’m sure they have large staterooms that can be converted into medical suites. I can’t think of a bigger “fuck you” to those pieces of shit then to turn around and make these obscene icons of wealth to be used to help everyone in need.
If we won’t do that, there are plenty of places that need new coral reef structures. I’d prefer the former, but will also be happy with the latter.
Jess
Oligarch’s mega-yacht: $600 million
Oligarch’s sad tears: Priceless!
Ruckus
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
New Fish Apartments!
dexwood
@Leto: Great idea. Let’s give one to World Central Kitchen to use, too.
Sebastian
Remember, this fat bastard owns Facebook.
Leto
@dexwood: another great use! Floating food relief station. Would def help in the Caribbean when the hurricanes come through.
Sebastian
@Scout211:
Maledives are a scuba-diving paradise. There might be soon very attractive shipwrecks there.
How many SSM or torpedos does it take to sink one of those?
The Dangerman
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Hmm. Maybe there isn’t a Pee Tape. Damn, I was so sure.
What I’m still sure about is Putin was behind Trump’s 2016 win. Trump might not even know it given he is a staggeringly stupid fuck.
He’s gonna be crushed when that comes out. Too bad.
Leto
@Sebastian: one or two, but you need to prep it first to not be an ecological disaster upon sinking.
Another Scott
@Gin & Tonic: Something, something law and the devil something something.
The state has lots of powers to do lots of things. Tax liens, inspections, etc. There’s no rush to impound and sell these things if the law isn’t there to do it. The state has the ability and time to get this right.
In Marietta, GA, Lockheed had several C-130s that the Shah had bought sitting in a lot. They sat there for years…
Cheers,
Scott.
Yarrow
The UK is giving the Russian oligarchs a 30 days head start to get their money safely out of the country.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Of course, that’s why Trump will just go into denial that he was ever president to protect his ego.
I think it’s safe to say that Putin will have bigger things on his mind for a while that what Trump is saying. Since the latest thing is
Martian LawMartial Law in Russia is so they can draft protesters to force them to go fight. Troops that come pre-demoralized, that will work so well.Ruckus
@trollhattan:
These boats are really not set up to house many people or carry a lot of stuff. They are
madedesigned to get a pompous arrogant rich fuck a woodie. They really aren’t useful as ships or even floating homes. And it would be cheaper to just build places on land. Besides, ships and boats require a fuckton of money to maintain them and still have a rather short life. It’s one reason that super rich fucks seem to like them, it shouts MONEY, that they have a lot and you don’t. And considering what most of those guys have done to get that money….Leto
@Another Scott: and the Shah had 8 F-14s until the new government took over, at which point the contractors on the ground ensured those planes would never fly. What was the law behind that? Was it “right”? But we’re just going to let you keep going up that hill with this.
brendancalling
If its possible to sell them, the profits should be used for humanitarian aid and military supplies for Ukraine.
If it’s not possible to sell them, they should be salvaged for scrap metal, and the proceeds used for humanitarian aid and military supplies for Ukraine.
Putin khuylo!
burnspbesq
Usmanov-controlled companies USM and Megafon have been major sponsors of Everton Football Club, and he is known to be close to controlling shareholder Farhad Moshiri. Maintenance workers have been busy around Goodison Park, Walton Hall Park (the women’s team’s home ground), and the Finch Farm training center removing all traces of their existence.
Leto
@Ruckus: like I said above, if we can’t do something useful with them, we need new coral reefs and dive sites. Infinitely more useful.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Sebastian:
As a diver, they’ll have to scrub the body grease and hair out of the hot tubs before I’d dive those wrecks….
germy
Prometheus Shrugged
@trollhattan: Unfortunately…as fantastic as it sounds to a sea-going oceanographer (I’m one) to have their own luxury suites and swimming pools while conducting research, the costs to repurpose boats such as these for oceanographic use would be too prohibitive. There are maybe a couple of dedicated research uses that I could imagine that wouldn’t require total overhaul/retrofit, but such oceanographic missions are typically funded in the $100,000s per year range–i.e. far less than the fuel costs of these yachts. It’s a beautiful dream, though…
Leto
@germy: I think it’s already being done, but I can’t wait for all the mega-yacht supporters to talk about how if we don’t build these monstrosities then those poor ship workers won’t have jobs. Like there aren’t a fuck ton more ships that need to be built or repaired. GTFO of here with that argument.
burnspbesq
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
It being Trump, you might want to consider the possibility that he is lying his ass off.
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
True.
However.
Those who have the money for these things have often hurt far more people on their way up the money chain. And often continue to hurt many when they are there. That money came from some where, some people and often that money is made on the backs of people who can’t even legally retaliate. And once they get the status as self made rich fucks, they can afford to use that status to make a lot more, on the backs of even more people. We, as a capitalistic country look upon those with big bucks as self made people. They aren’t. They make that money on the backs/actual production of others, who very often, at the most, get fucked for their efforts – and not in a good way. Take the history of coal or oil extraction. Bring anyone to mind?
mrmoshpotato
Yoink!
Argiope
@Yarrow: What is their stated reason for this? An overexaggerated sense of fairness?
Suzanne
I would love to seize all this shit and use the proceeds to COVAX, mortgage payments for poor homeowners, etc. But honestly, how much of a market exists for this crap?! There can’t be a big cohort of people both rich AND douchey enough to buy one of these things.
Yarrow
Sure, Jan. Boris can’t upset the people who own him. They know too much.
Peale
Guessing that they are seizing yachts this quickly because they know they aren’t really yachts in the typical sense of a pleasure craft. Like the yacht the Norwegian’s searched last week when the communication cable last week. They may look like yachts but are closer to spy ships in function.
scav
There’s a reason work to rules strikes are effective, and I’d imagine a concerted enforce to regulations action could ball things up too.
Baud
@Suzanne:
I’m certainly not rich enough.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Vlad’s going to have to re-establish the tradition of commissars shooting their own troops at this rate, if that’s not already a thing in the 21st-century Russian army.
Peale
@Yarrow: Not that I expect the Labor party to look much better under scrutiny, but for a group of citizens who went nuts about how they wanted their sovereignty back, the UK citizens seem very unconcerned about how much footsy was being played by its playboy leaders with siphoned money.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Just listened to Vova speaking. Basically five million useless rubles to the families of dead soldiers (equals $50K in useless scrip), and he’s proud of the Anschluss, as the Ukrainian and Russian peoples are one. Sky commentators ran residential bomb damage video side by side with his bullshit on their methods and are calling him “delusional”, which scares the shit out of me.
If your work allows YouTube, Sky runs a live channel with good reporting.
As I said in another thread, Vova hasn’t planned on absorbing 40M pissed off literate people whose homes and economic futures he’s shattered into the Shithead Federation. Ukrainians are ethnically similar, mostly bilingual, are culturally predisposed to millennial-duration grudges, and have a lot of connections inside the Shithead Federation proper. Looking for something, hopefully in Holy Mother Russia, very, very soon.
He has no foreign reserves to draw on, no international goodwill, and his own currency and equity markets are in freefall- meaning that a Russian-controlled “The Ukraine” will be a restive, dangerous place for decades without a western bailout.
And as for that, Vova, you broke it, you bought it. Enjoy your terror campaign.
Yarrow
@Argiope: They’re lying about what they’re doing. They’re saying they’re enacting strict sanctions and they don’t answer questions about why they’re delaying 30 days.
The Tory party is up to it’s eyeballs in Russian money and they know it’s not safe for them to go against Putin so Johnson is trying to thread the needle. There have been attacks on British soil so they in no way feel safe in the UK. Cowards and traitors.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Transactional Donny, Trump don’t do normal human things like loyalty. That means Trump sees Putin as a luzer and liability to the Trump brand.
Peale
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Yeah. Martial Law is basically declaring war on your own people. So…way to open up a new front, Vlad.
Suzanne
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
I knew I felt kinship.
Yarrow
@Argiope: They’re also leaning on their lawyers to delay. Browder here is talking about the UK:
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Suzanne: I’ll admit to being douchey enough to want one, but I don’t have the wallet for it. I’d proudly walk around it in a silk robe…
Ken
@Prometheus Shrugged: I am reminded of a line from Good Omens, something like “There is a worldwide ban on killing whales except for research, so the ship was now researching the question, How many whales can we kill?”
So even if the yachts are useless for oceanography research, they might be suitable for “oceanography research”. You just need to find the right “research” topic.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Yes, it does sound that way, except that requires wild Communist who see those the troops in the penal battalions as class enemies out to wreck the Communist utopia. Most likely the guards themselves like will be unhappy being at the front and wanting to just bail.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Suzanne:
“Oh yeah? How did your people act in 1326…..?”
trollhattan
@Yarrow:
Hasn’t science proved by now that when Boris says “no” it means “yes?”
scav
@Yarrow:
Abramovich is rather overtly admitting money raised by the sale of Chelsea may go to Russian victims of the war. Not really concerned by the optics is he. Must go though the motions blah blah in Borisland.
VeniceRiley
Sea B&B for rich renters who are too tony for mass market cruises.
Yarrow
@trollhattan: Sure. But the lapdog UK press still don’t treat him that way.
Peale
@Baud: You’ve run for president twice and haven’t yet earned enough to buy a yacht from campaign donations siphoned off to fees paid to Baud’s Cayman Islands Media Consultancy? I can’t really advise you, but I want a president who understands business better.
Leto
@Suzanne: I recently saw a figure that it takes at least 10% of the purchase price, annually, to maintain a floating dick replacement like that. I don’t think that includes staff and provisions. So there’s not really a market for that. Those “in the market” probably already have something similar and aren’t looking to upgrade ($$$).
citizen dave
@burnspbesq: IF our DOJ ever gets to the top in terms of charging TFG, they should tell him if is a cooperative witness regarding info on the true crime kingpin, Putin, he might get a lesser sentence. He is so stupid.
Ruckus
@Nope:
First. The legal basis is most often money. A lot of superrich fucks get that way by screwing people, and not in the fun way. They don’t give a shit about those they screw and they have enough money to protect them from the harm they may cause. A law firm on retainer is often cheaper than paying big debts. And the person/firm that hasn’t been paid often doesn’t have the where with all to go after a super rich fuck.
Second, the yacht’s usefulness is in making the person look rich and in giving them a moveable mansion. That’s pretty much it. Every live on a boat? It seems like a good idea but it’s costly and has it’s drawbacks, even for the rich fucks on super yachts.
Third, not much actually useful at all. Maybe that some people with too much money have dreadful tastes in most everything?
I used to know someone that owned a reasonably large boat, with 2 or 3 other people. Not in the super yacht class but far more than just a day sailer. It’s nice to visit, but it is a lot of work and a lot of money to maintain, the ocean is after all a harsh mistress. And while I didn’t cross the Atlantic six times in a yacht, I did do it in a reasonably sized ship, the maintenance costs of which was, over it’s lifetime of approximately 25 yrs, likely more than it cost to build. Here’s one video of what happens at the end of their lives.
Ken
@Suzanne: “Culturally predisposed to millennial-duration grudges” is so widespread it may be genetic.
Leto
@scav: as soon as he announced that it’d go to “Ukrainian conflict victims”, I knew it’d just head straight back to Russia. Because they’re the real victims here… /vomit
Yarrow
@Peale: Labour has its own issues but on the issue of Russian money they are nowhere near the problem the Tory party is. Yesterday Labour leader Keir Starmer asked Johnson about the issue:
Kay
@Nope:
In the US they’re using this:
But there’s a difference between seizing and freezing. Freezing means the owner can’t move it or transfer title but they still own it. Seizing would mean the US could sell it.
matt
Maybe Joe Manchin wants an upgrade!
zhena gogolia
@different-church-lady: This is what infuriates me. Putin should have been undermined YEARS AND YEARS AGO. He has destroyed Russian civil society. It’s a dictatorship ruled by fear. There were powerful leading, prominent voices against precisely what leads to what’s going on now in Ukraine, but they were murdered.
Chetan Murthy
Ah, I see @Ruckus: said it already.
@Another Scott: I am a big fan of Davies. Another problem with his argument is that obscenely rich people can afford lawyers and influence-buying on a scale that can stymie and pervert justice. His argument only makes sense if you insist that all the oligarch’s assets, including any used to pay lawyers, are all seized and he rely upon public defenders selected from the same pool that serves the indigent.
Otherwise, a $100m/yr defense is …. what? 5% of the lowball estimate for the sale price of Chelsea FC? Chump change.
Sebastian
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
As one very eloquent poster wrote yesterday, Vova broke the contract with the criminal class. The entire leadership class in Russia is corrupt and has no loyalty to the state or to Putin, else we wouldn’t have this level of insight.
His actions have destroyed everything. The oligarchs have lost everything and are not getting it back, the middle class has lost everything, the working class and poor are going to go hungry.
Putin needs a BIG win and he needs it QUICKLY. Otherwise, his underwear will have Novachuk or his tea Pollonium.
He is a dead man walking.
zhena gogolia
@Sebastian: I keep hoping you’re right, as well as yesterday’s commenter (Carlo Graziani?). But I don’t have much hope.
Sebastian
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Precisely. All these predictions assume the existence of a cohesive ideology when there is none.
What is the Russian soldier fighting FOR?
Ruckus
@different-church-lady:
we’re just gonna do economic warfare and damn the rules mode?
I wonder if it’s just that payback that actually stings because a lot of rules really, really only help the super rich, or they have the extra money that helps them make that money on the backs of many others who have to just survive. The super rich play by a far different rulebook than most of us do, and they often get away with it because they are super rich. It’s why they work so diligently and hard to stay super rich, they get breaks and friends and stuff than most of us never do and it is almost never because of their hard work or super smarts, it’s because they most often don’t give a rats fuck about anything but money.
Sebastian
@zhena gogolia:
That’s who I meant. Carlo’s analysis was so spot on.
catclub
@burnspbesq: Vindman’s article in the WAPO on how bad Trump was vis-a-vis Ukraine vs Russia, is probably not getting much coverage in the rightwingosphere. They are complicit because they unanimously defended him in the impeachment over that. I think Romney voted against THAT impeachment.
Yarrow
@different-church-lady:
Layla Moran, a British MP, gets the reason why all of this was ignored for so long exactly right.
Sebastian
@Ruckus:
That’s exactly what we are going to do and it’s about time.
Next up, Zuckerberg.
hueyplong
@Alison Rose: ” …white people receiving consequences is my kink”
It could be speculated that most online kink depicts that very thing, though (maybe) not as you prefer it.
kindness
Just think of all the real estate Trump sold the Russian mob for cash. If only all of those could be seized.
Leto
@Chetan Murthy: it’s also how US oligarchs get out of paying taxes; hire mega firms to represent them to the IRS, then grind them down. They have the money and time to do it. And that’s not even getting to the lobbyists they have working on preferential legislation being passed by willing politicians.
Yarrow
@Sebastian:
YES. Motherfucking traitor.
catclub
“Putin needs a BIG win and he needs it QUICKLY. Otherwise, his underwear will have Novachuk or his tea Pollonium.
He is a dead man walking.”[What happened to the block-quote button?]
The alternate view is: putin has a set up a system that can only run if he is in charge, and the disaster and chaos that happen if he disappears are worth avoiding.
Chetan Murthy
@catclub: One day, Putin will die [clearly he was in bad need of a servitor to walk a half-pace behind him, whispering into his ear that he, too, was mortal, ah well] and on that day, the chaos will arrive. Better that it arrive when NATO and the West are united in opposition, so that his successor can know that they need to sue for peace and perhaps try to build rule of law, if not democracy, so that this kind of madness doesn’t happen again.
Brachiator
@Yarrow:
Johnson is doing everything he can to give the Russian oligarchs time to move their money and protect their assets.
It is pretty shameful. When another MP noted that Russian oligarchs are big Tory contributors, somebody came up with the claim that the Chinese Communist Party is supposedly the biggest Labour Party contributor.
It looks as though Putin bought both Trump and Johnson.
Chetan Murthy
@catclub: I remember reading a perceptive analysis of the PRC, noting that under Deng and his successors, China had a “distributed ruling elite” that collectively chose the Leader, and that job was time-limited. Until Xi. That the Soviet Union had it too, in the Politburo. And that such a system is inherently more stable than the personalist rule of Stalin, or Putin, or Xi.
Not that it matters: we’re here now. He needs to fall down an elevator shaft.
catclub
@Chetan Murthy: sounds right
The Thin Black Duke
@zhena gogolia: Things don’t change until they do.
RandomMonster
Who names a $600M yacht “Dilbar”?
Another Scott
@Chetan Murthy: I think that he recognizes that.
My bottom line on this is his mantra (roughly) – never trust a known liar about anything important. BoJo is a known liar and doing the seizures wrong won’t be effective (reversed by courts; letting them slip away (which seems to be what BoJo is trying to do); etc.).
There’s never One Weird Trick…
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Leto
@catclub: for block quotes, just remember < blockquote > (no spaces in there) and < / blockquote > to end it, if the icons aren’t working.
Roger Moore
@Another Scott:
I think it’s slightly the opposite in practice. There’s a big rush to impound the things while they’re still in a convenient location to impound. The exact excuse for why they’re impounded will be thought of at leisure. If the Russians retreat and the sanctions are removed, they may discover the initial reason for impounding them was incorrect release them.
Chetan Murthy
@RandomMonster: https://www.names.org/n/dilbar/about#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20user%20from%20Illinois%2C%20U.S.%2C%20the%20name%20Dilbar,%22Beautiful%3B%20Uzbekistan%20origin%22.
Peale
@Brachiator: Yep. Oh where are all those “sovereignty” Brexiters now? Shouldn’t they be staging a rally about how they want Little Britain for Britainers?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
From Twitter (stuff is moving fast now):
Response:
Another Scott
@Roger Moore: The “and” in the excerpt was doing the heavy lifting.
Thanks for phrasing it better.
Cheers,
Scott.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@catclub:
Put another way, “Death of Stalin” was more of a documentary than it gets credited.
Leto
@RandomMonster:
* – some creative liberties were taken here.
Anonymous At Work
If they are functionally worthless except to dirty billionaires, then why doesn’t Biden and Congress issue Letters of Marque? If you seize it to strip it for parts, you can at least sail it to Mar a Lago first.
Peale
@Sebastian: I guess one of the wildcards here is how much of the propaganda assault the Russians themselves bought. I don’t think Putin has been as effective as he thought he was preparing Russia for this. If he were, there would have been people in the streets applauding the decision. I mean, if they really thought the Ukrainians had killed millions of Russians and were about to slaughter more, you’d think there would have been people out rallying to demand that Putin save Russia.
I don’t know enough about the Russian education system to know how much effort is spent educating young Russians about the need for Russia to reunite with “Little Russia.” My guess is that most people just tune it off and watch YouTube or something more interesting than cranky men blathering on about the Motherland all afternoon. Just like here.
Kent
Dictators can linger on and on and on far past their “sell by” date, even if they run their countries into the ground.
Witness Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, etc.
I expect Putin can outlast pretty much any sanctions and the ruination of Russia. I don’t think the point is regime change in Russia, but rather neutering its ability to meddle and intervene overseas. Or demonstrating that the price of doing so is intolerably high.
No more fucking 2016 elections and Brexit ever. And the newly revealed Russian funding of the German leftists who got Germany to abandon nuclear power which predicably made Germany dependent on Russian gas.
scav
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Well, at least the GQP won’t have to translate their party planks and PR campaigns out of the Russian. Cut and Paste Comrade, Cut and Paste.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Anonymous At Work:
Meh. Put oligarchs on them and set them adrift in the Gulf of Aden with only the oligarch aboard. Cut all power systems and let them see if they can start the boat and run it before the Somali pirates arrive.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I kind of wondered about that. TFG was controlled by the fact that only Russian banks would loan him money, and (allegedly) blackmail.
I wondered what would happen when the money spigot dried up.
Peale
@Kent: Yep. The point of this will be to make each inch going forward painful for him. So that by the time he gets to runiting with Estonia, he’s in worse shape than he is now. Limping to Estonia is what we want.
Kent
@Roger Moore: There are a LOT of unemployed Ukrainian refugees scattered across Europe. Hire a bunch of them to “guard and maintain” these Russian oligarch yachts and then look the other way when they strip them for parts.
burnspbesq
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Funny, they don’t look like Irish Catholics.
Brachiator
@Leto:
The best way for US oligarchs to get out of paying taxes is to pay members of Congress bags of money to write favorable tax law. Or to write it themselves and pass it along to willing Congress critters.
Otherwise, the IRS just does not have the staff or resources to pursue some investigations. The GOP has stifled the IRS budget for a while now.
And there are at least 6 million paper returns from last year that have not been processed. This just adds to the problem.
Baud
@Kent:
Jill Stein is shocked.
Raoul Paste
@Sebastian: I am reading your comments juxtaposed with the news of artillery fired at civilians, and the uncertainty is consuming
But if you turn out to be right, nobody here would deny you a hearty “I told you so”
Roger Moore
@catclub:
If he thinks that will protect him, he’s in for a big surprise. There is always, always someone who thinks they can take the reins. Maybe they’re right and maybe not, but they are willing to find out.
trollhattan
@RandomMonster: Guessing Scott Adams.
“Two Dills walk into a bar….”
PPCLI
@scav:
And really, isn’t Abramovich *himself* a victim of this terrible war?
burnspbesq
@Sebastian:
Who can kill a lot of people and break a lot of stuff before he becomes dead.
Anonymous At Work
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I don’t know about you but I have lakeside property that could use a mega-yacht instead of building a summer house…and a road to the property…Boat that size, might justify up to THREE coolers for beer, too!
trollhattan
@PPCLI:
“I lost more money today than you’ll make your entire life. I win, a-ha-ha-ha!”
We can’t even know the color of the sky in their world.
Sloane Ranger
The Tories want a new Royal yacht as a Platinum Jubilee gift to HM. One of these super yachts sounds suitable. If someone reminds BoJo about this and that the yacht will be free, that might force him to decide between keeping in with his oligarch sponsors and making the Queen happy. A difficult choice for a Tory these days.
Kent
I think you are overly optimistic. Putin comes from the KGB. His own father led one of the “Destruction Battalions” during WW2 that hunted down traitors and such. He probably has forgotten more about maintaining political loyalties in a despotic state than any of the rest of us will ever know. I expect he has thousands of ultra-loyal guards and inner circle who he has by the short hairs in a bazillion different ways. I wouldn’t count on Putin’s “Praetorian Guard” abandoning him. And they will ruthlessly purge anyone they even suspect of questionable loyalty.
delk
Park one next to Manchin’s boat and play helicopter goes up, helicopter goes down 24-7.
catclub
@Leto: thanks! even if I won’t remember.
Gin & Tonic
@Peale: The Ministry of Education has helpfully prepared a video for the schoolchildren explaining the necessity of liberating Ukraine.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, because I’m not sure people hear me. Remember Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines (aka Radio Rwanda,) which prepared the ground for the attempted genocide of the Tutsis? That’s what is going on. If you don’t follow Russian Telegram channels or VKontakte feeds you don’t see it. Ukrainians are at once Nazis and untermenschen and killing them is a good thing. These cold, hungry, “scared,” POW’s who “had no idea where they were going”? Bullshit. Check their social media feeds, and they know the task and approach it willingly, often enthusiastically. Vladimir Putin is not out there driving an APC or aiming an artillery battery, ordinary Russians are. Stop making excuses for them
So here we are folks, 21st Century Europe, tune in to CNN to watch genocide, live in your living room.
trollhattan
@Peale: During the pre-Brexit Nigel Hunts I heard Midlanders complaining bitterly about Polish workers cluttering their streets, drinking beer. Now that that lot has cleared out, are their lives better?
Brexit from eight time zones away seemed like a scam made from the thinnest of tissue. Trump’s ability to vacuum up a vast array of unrelated complaints and spew them back to a receptive audience echoed the Brexiteers closely, except with worse English.
Doug R
This yacht is 157 metres.
BC Ferries fits 310 vehicles and 1,604 passengers and crew on 160 metres.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal-class_ferry
Mai Naem mobile
@The Dangerman: i don’t think Putin’s going to have a grave. He’s either going to be dumped overboard somewhere off some oligarchs yacht or of have body burnt up in bunker fire like Hitler.
germy
Sloane Ranger
@Peale:
The BBC did a report on this. Broadly speaking there seems to be a generational divide. Older people, who get their information from state run TV believe all the propaganda they’re fed, younger people, who get theirs from social media, don’t. Exceptions exist.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Gin & Tonic:
I’m watching mine on Sky News, where the people providing the reports get to say that what they’re hearing is bullshit, and I’m never subjected to the moronic talking heads of Chuck Todd or Wolf Blitzer or Anderson Cooper or John King giving their uneducated take on what it all means.
Sebastian
@Yarrow:
Did you see the Facebook funding writeup I did the other day?
germy
trollhattan
@Gin & Tonic:
Heard an interview yesterday with the former head of TV broadcast network NTV, the last independent channel in Russia that Vlad did away with in 2001. They ousted the channel head and the staff blockaded themselves in the studios until “private security” came and tossed them out. And that was that, 21 years ago.
They had had a multi-hour meeting with Putin who simply did not see any reason why they were not broadcasting what he thought they should.
Ted Turner evidently tried to swoop in and buy it in an attempt to save it. Gazprom instead had acquired it and aided its demise. “Is just like sinking dry well” said somebody, probably.
germy
I didn’t know about this proud American:
trollhattan
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Thank goodness they peeled Sky out of the Murdoch Group. Can only imagine how they’d be covering Vlad’s misadventures.
RandomMonster
@trollhattan: Apparently it’s an Uzbek name. The oligarch who owns (owned) it is an Uzbek-born Russian.
He should’ve gone with Yachty McYachtface.
Sebastian
@catclub:
Possible, quite likely, he must have some sort of insurance.
Problem is, the deck has been completely reshuffled now. There are a lot of people who are thinking, the only way to keep playing is without Vova. He’s gotta go.
Don’t forget, those aren’t very complex thinkers. They are rather simple and pragmatic and also, quite confident that they can navigate chaotic environments. That’s how they got rich in the first place.
Putin is worried about how many stupid, or desperate, ones are there who think that removing Putin will bring everything back to how it was?
trollhattan
@germy:
“Is now to be welcoming fat American hippie nazifighter!”
What a putz. American Taliban, anyone?
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
Cheap dates, good return on the investment….
Till it isn’t.
The Pale Scot
Rudimentary damage control. A couple of Molotovs should do it
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@catclub:
a Moscow-based journalist, I forget which outlet, said on MSNBC the other night that Putin’s lieutenants hate each other too much to conspire. The palace coup, if it comes, will come from the the second and third tier, the guys (people?), as someone else put it, who have money in Cyprus, not Switzerland, who have apartments on the beach in Spain rather than villas in the south of France.
laura
Just a doggone minute here! Over a hundred and fifty some odd comments about these super yachts and what to do with them and not a single one of you has mentioned that Delk called dibs on one days ago- and even Delk failed to mention calling dibs in his comment on this very thread. Delk called dibs and he should get a seized super yacht. I don’t make the rules, just insisting they be followed. Harrumph.
Betty Cracker
@germy: He deserves the John Walker Lindh treatment.
Ruckus
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
You know if you drain the fuel tanks and fill them with seawater that the useful life of the boat is officially “Not That Long.”
Which is when you release/give them back to the unrightful owners. Who get to pay for the disposition of a lot of useless materials…
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
I think Putin and cronies deserve what they get and I am thrilled at their dismay. However, I am nervous at the way China is taking a few steps back and trying to determine how they can make sure they can do what they want, while being insulated from these kind of consequences. Its like Putin charged ahead and gave away the location of all the mines.
delk
@laura: lol! Free cruises for you Laura!
catclub
so stocks are not tradeable but Football Clubs still are.
Alice
@RandomMonster: Dilbar is his mother’s name. See, he’s just a nice boy who loves his mama.
Ruckus
@burnspbesq:
Isn’t that usually stated as “arrives at dead” as clearly in a case like this there would be more to the story than he really, really, really fucked up. I mean just the size of his ego can’t fit in one edition of any global newspaper, although the FTFNYT might think they are worthy….
Ruckus
@Kent:
I think that if you review history you will notice that this story is as old as the hills and that no matter how much control said leader has on his sycophants, when he gets into serious shit and the switch for the fan is close at hand, almost every last one of them will make a decision that a week before, no one would have suspected. Sure there might always be one or two who might doubt that he’s reached that point, they are unlikely to defend dear leader with massive loser stink. People that someone like vova surrounds himself with are extremely supportive and protective, right up to the second they aren’t.
geg6
@Ruckus:
I can’t speak for yachts of this size, but by the time my ex and I finally called it quits, we had a boat that is technically categorized as a yacht (not anything like these things). I’ve read a LOT of commentary on here the last week or so talking about how a boat like this can’t do this or that or is so expensive and luxurious it’s not good for anything else. And I call bullshit. We could put a lot of people on our 36-footer and everyone could eat, sleep and take a dump quite comfortably. We spent two weeks on it, going from Pittsburgh to Cincinnati and back, cooking all our meals, washing our clothes, showering and sleeping very well. The only difficulty was fueling it. Not because it ate up so much fuel (it wasn’t all that bad for a twin engine) but because you have to plan a lot to make sure you can limp into the next fueling station. The Ohio River, in some parts, has very spaced out fuel docks.
What I’m really saying is that you can certainly put a lot of people comfortably on a 500+ foot yacht. I see no reason it couldn’t be done.
Ruckus
@Gin & Tonic:
People always think, this time it’s different.
And in the end humans are human and it never is all that different, the tools change, the reasons for using them never do.
Marc
I was wandering around Barcelona a few years ago and noticed the Dilbar tied up at one of the piers. One has no idea of the scale of these things until you see one up close and personal (my photo).
germy
D Gardner
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I agree – why not just sail them to a safe distance from shore and scuttle them?
Ruckus
@geg6:
Yes 500 ft is a biggish ship. I lived on a 450 ft ship with 300 of my favorite friends…..and missile launchers, gun turrets, boiler rooms, fuel tanks of tens of thousands of gallons of fuel, fresh water distillers, etc, etc, etc.
But these aren’t ships designed for a lot of people, they are ships designed for opulence for a few. Huge bedrooms – pardon me staterooms, full Olympic length swimming pools, a helicopter garage – helipad…. Look at an ocean liner, carries a few thousand and crew.
I’m not saying you are wrong, just that you have to look at the people who own these things and why to see that they aren’t reasonable boats that carry a lot of people. They are like owning or being married to someone who owns eleven – 15,000 to 30,000 sq ft homes and can’t remember where they are all located. (John McCain ref) It isn’t the boat or the homes it is the money and showing it off, having so much that nothing has actual value and that it is never just a boat, it is a lifestyle. And their lifestyle is nothing like yours or mine is the entire point.
Calouste
@Ruckus: Unless you can indoctrinate them to the point where they are willing to commit suicide with you, like Hitler did. But that was the exception. Even Mussolini got kicked out by his underlings when the going got bad.
Yarrow
@Sebastian: No, but I’m very familiar with the history of Facebook and Russia. Traitors.
StringOnAStick
@D Gardner: First you need to remove all the fuel, oil, liquids, etc so that scuttling it doesn’t lead to a bunch of nasties being released out into the environment. When ships or planes are scuttled to make artificial reefs/dive targets, they’ve been very effectively stripped of those things plus anything else of potential value or that can be polluting.
Kent
@Ruckus: A 500 ft yacht probably has a crew of at least 50, maybe more with the officers, deck hands, engineers, and all the service staff. And probably has space for several dozen guests minimum in opulent staterooms. So I would be surprised if a yacht that size doesn’t have staterooms and heads for 100-200 people minimum.
Kent
Well, I’m sure he is selling it for pounds and not rubles.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
That’s a good point, Trump’s grudges with Mexico and China were all about money.
Kay
@Marc:
That’s neat, thanks. I like boats and I think the huge yachts are ugly. They look like shrunken cruise ships.
Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)
@Leto: “If you have to ask, you can’t afford it!” -J. P. Morgan
horatius
@RandomMonster: It means “My Love” in Farsi.
Sebastian
@Kent:
I doubt that. Too much money, too much power, gone because of him.
Look, if I owned a $400m yacht and it got confiscated because a coworker/boss/whoever fucked up? I might put up a nice face because I have to but inside is a different kind of story.
It’s not just a yacht. Putin has impoverished the entire upper strata of post-Soviet Russia. He failed and his only way out is to fix it real quick. Every moment that passes without the luxuries and pleasures they got used to, makes the realization sink in more.
He is fucked.
Sebastian
@burnspbesq:
No lie told here.
Sebastian
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The Young Guard.
There is a guy right now, who is hungry and ambitious, and thinks his time has come.
SamIAm
@Kent:
Post revolution Cuba was supported by the Soviets. Since that stopped in the late 80s Cuba has been no poorer than most of the other nations in the Caribbean. The US has laws against trading with Cuba but that hasn’t stopped the rest of the world from doing so.
North Korea has had China to prop it up. Without China the Kim regime wouldn’t have outlived the Korean war.
Chávez wasn’t the first dictator of Venezuela. In fact one could argue that Venezuela has mostly been run by dictators. It’s fortunes have entirely been dependent on the price of oil.
Russia is in the same boat in that regard. But I don’t think we ever hit the Chávez regime with the same level of economic sanctions that Russia’s now under.
So with no outside assistance like those other countries had I doubt Putin is going to be able to stick around quite as long as Castro, Chávez, or Kim jong Un. At least I hope not.
prostratedragon
@Kent: Somewhere I saw that the big yacht in question has/had a crew of 96. No idea about guest accommodations. For comparison I found that Britannia sailed with a crew of 250 plus a couple dozen officers. and could sleep 250 guests in addition. I don’t think it has 2 swimming pools, though.
artem1s
those yachts would probably make pretty good research vessels. good communication systems and room enough for the equipment needed and to haul supplies to remote outposts. I’m thinking this Vladimir would love to have one of those yachts for his research in the Kurils. There are a lot of great ways these vessels could be repurposed.
From Kurils With Love
Jager
@Leto:
When the “All Oceans” license requirement for the captains of mega yachts was instituted internationally. Megayacht owners screamed and yelled because it was going to cost them more money for captains and crew. A guy I know from sailboat racing is now an All Oceans licensed Captain. He operates a 110 foot yacht for a Wall Street banker. He gets paid $1,000 a foot per year, all expenses paid. His wife is the chef on board, she makes 60k. The owner and his family and friends spend maybe 60 days a year on the boat. The rest of the time, my sailing friend, his wife, and 2 other crew members enjoy the boat on their own.
J R in WV
@Scout211:
Of course, we don’t want or need to extradite anything from the Maldives. We just want the Russian Oligarchs to lose their yachts, attached Oligarch not necessary.
J R in WV
@Yarrow:
Yeh, their prime minister is named Alexander Boris de Pfeffle Johnson, which is a RUSSIAN NAME. Well, OK all but the Johnson part. Bought and paid for, just like TFG, Shite for Brains.
No One You Know
The 21st century: the time when rich powerful white men lost their shit and blew up the planet because they couldn’t own it all after enslaving so much of it.