We were seeing widespread issues with impossible site-load times, and site hanging, so John set a new policy.
New policy: Until otherwise stated, please do not put more than one or two tweets above the fold, and no more than ten tweets total for post.
As one front-pager put it when John announced the policy: “We have policies?”
I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who laughed at that. (in a good way) Cole conceded that that was a fair point, but the policy stands.
It’s human nature that complaints are always louder and more frequent than the “thank you” when a problem is resolved, so please rebel against that tendency. There’s no point in having a policy that makes creating a post more complicated for front-pagers… if it’s not helping and is met with a collective yawn.
So if you are seeing a significant change for the better, please let us know in the comments.
If you are still having site-loading issues, please share the following information:
– is it better, but still not good? or not better at all
– device: computer vs. tablet vs. phone
– OS or iOS version
– browser
– browser version
– front page vs. individual post
– time of day
– if happening in threads: is it just in threads with a larger number of tweets or is it happening in all threads for you?
Open thread.
Update: Test 1.
Test 2.
Jerzy Russian
The Covid update post loaded smoothly, as did Mr. Silverman’s Ukraine post from last night.
I usually read Balloon-Juice on my iPhone with Chrome, or on a MacBook Pro with Chrome. Previously I had noticed some “jerky” behavior in the comments (the “pointer” seemed to jump around a bit before settling down), but it seems it was relatively minor compared to what others had experienced.
MinuteMan
Twitter embeds are pox at every site I visit. I think the problem is that the embed lies about its dimensions, initially. When it later reveals its actual dimensions the page has to redo the layout which is hugely annoying since it shifts the view window around forcing you to scroll around to recover your position in the page. Worse, it can keep happening for a seemingly interminable period of time until all the embeds above the view port have rerendered.
WaterGirl
@MinuteMan: Yes, Twitter is evil, and they are getting worse.
Are you seeing any difference on Balloon Juice on site loading or site behavior between earlier this week and now?
Dangerman
Twitter no good? I’ve been hearing things about Truth Social.
What?
ETA: Site loaded better today.
different-church-lady
Front page now useable on a very modern iPhone for the first time in at least a week.
It’s almost like Twitter is trying to get people to stop using it.
Also: did you ever look into my suspicion that WP loads everything below the fold even when it doesn’t display it at the time?
lee
Windows 10 (up to date)
Firefox (up to date)
FYI: I also have uBlock Origin running
I never really had a ‘problem’ with the load times with a lot of tweets embedded. It might take 10 seconds or so for the entire site to load if the top post was twit heavy. It seemed worse in the mornings than the rest of the day. My guess is that once the site was cached it then loaded faster.
My lack of issue might be because I’ve got a ridiculous amount of RAM in my machine.
mali muso
Site is loading a lot better for me both on my iPhone SE (ancient version, don’t judge!) and on my MacBook. Still a bit jerky but a definite improvement.
waysel
Thank you WaterGirl, and thank you John Cole. The site is working better with less tweets, for sure.
Baud
The infringement on our FREEDOMS is unacceptable. FRONT PAGERS, to your semis!
waysel
@Baud: Nice!
WaterGirl
@different-church-lady:
I had never seen that suspicion from you, perhaps it was in a comment in a thread that I haven’t seen?
I have, however, wondered about that possibility myself but I haven’t been able to test the theory.
oatler
“Sorry! It looks like you posted this before”
oatler
“Sorry! It looks like you posted this before”
WaterGirl
@lee: Ridiculous is in the eye of the beholder. :-) how much RAM do you have on your system?
WaterGirl
@mali muso: There was a lot to love about the size of the iPhone SE.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Slightly related, only commenters who live in Texas are eligible to rat out non-compliant front-pagers for a bounty.
WaterGirl
@oatler: I have no idea what you are trying to communicate with that comment. Twice.
Kristine
Definite improvement this morning. The COVID thread loaded quickly and scrolled properly with no crashing. Thanks for making the change. I know it complicates posting but it’s appreciated.
japa21
Much smoother. Less jumping back and forth for initial loading. A little more when I refresh an open post, but since total number of tweets is down, not nearly as bad. IOW, front page much better, individual post some better and definitely not as annoying. Using laptop, Firefox.
lee
@WaterGirl: 48G
As soon I typed that I realized that 48G was high when I built this machine 4ish years ago. Now 64G seems to be on the high end.
Also, I’m 97% sure that WP loads ‘Below the fold’ when loading the site.
Sister Golden Bear
Definite improvement to the front page. There’s a small pause (which was normal previously), but nothing like the long hang-times of late. Adam’s post from last night also seemed to load much faster, despite having a number of Twitter links.
Mac 11.6
Safari 15.0
8 a.m. Pacific
ATLRobert
I most browse on my android phone, both mobile Firefox and Chrome.
The posts seem to be smoother, both initial page and any comments refresh. Not perfect but a lot better. I think it’s the Twitter widgets, cutting down on the number seems to help w good bit.
VeniceRiley
I didn’t have an opinion on the bill eliminating time change until this morning. Managed to get out of bed, throw ona bra, brush teeth and put my hair in a pony. Dassit. No one sees me anyway, I rationalized.
different-church-lady
@WaterGirl: It was many months ago, late at night, so good probability you didn’t see it.
I suppose the only way to test it would be to put a bunch of tweets below the fold, and then edit to remove them.
Butch
Windows 10 and Chrome and I’ve never had any issues at all.
WaterGirl
@lee: Based on what I have seen from various tools this past week or so, I have begun to think so, too. 97% sure? I would love to know what you are basing that on.
WaterGirl
@lee: I think 48 still qualifies. :-)
waysel
@WaterGirl: I second (or third) that suspicion of WP reloading both sides of the fold every time I hit refresh.
H.E.Wolf
Desktop Mac mini, running macOS Sierra, version 10.12.6. Firefox browser 97.0.1.
Many thanks! The change seems to have fixed the skittery behavior I was seeing.
Also: a 2-day turnaround for a fix is outstanding. Much appreciation to all involved.
p.a.
https://www.washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-daylight-saving-time-in-the-70s-people-hated-it/
WaterGirl
@different-church-lady: The thing is, I would need to do that with 7 posts because that’s the number of posts that show up on the front page. Once you’re in a particular thread, there is no “below the fold”. Then if someone else puts up a post while I’m doing my testing, I have to start over again because I no longer have a something consistent to test again.
Thus far, I have been unwilling to try to coordinate with all the front-pagers and unwilling to test in the middle of the night when it would be least disruptive.
WaterGirl
@waysel: Do you read from the front page?
Bill Arnold
Didn’t have problems with the tweet-heavy (info-rich) posts, other than slowness loading the first time. Tweet images are tedious, if a link isn’t provided; have to open another tab, retype the user name from the image, and root around to find the tweet, getting distracted by other tweets from that user. (Tweet images do have the advantage that they will continue to work as long as this site works; won’t be deleted.)
This is with at least uBlock Origin, Privacy Badger, a script blocker (NoScript or ScriptSafe), and some browsers with more blockers.
(On an android as well; using a browser that supports some chrome extensions.)
mali muso
@WaterGirl: The pocket-fitting size and the headphone jack. I’ll keep using this phone until it dies.
CaseyL
I don’t get the jumping-up-and-down now (MacBook Pro, Firefox 98.0.1).
(It was a relief to see that was happening to other people; I though it was my computer. I’m on an ancient-in-computer-years laptop, and hope it never dies because I don’t like the newer ones.)
Old School
Seems to have fixed it. Clicking refresh isn’t taking me to the bottom of the page today.
Betty Cracker
I’m not sure how, but somehow I’ve dodged all of the problems most everyone else experienced. I use a fairly new HP laptop and veteran iPhone X. I wonder if it’s related to being logged into the site as someone with admin capabilities? Maybe that can help pinpoint the problem — I have no idea.
Anyhoo, laggy loading of tweet-heavy posts is nothing new, and I’ve accepted it as a fact of life, but it sounds like what y’all experienced was much worse that the 5 to 10-seconds or so of initial screen jerkiness during tweet-loading that I’ve become accustomed to.
different-church-lady
@different-church-lady:
or….. put a bunch of tweets below the fold, measure performance, then move the fold to above the tweets, see if there’s any difference.
Senator Ted
Much better (however I’m not able to add a comment using the Visual tab, can’t click in the box)
– Desktop
– Windows 10 Pro / 19043.1586
– Firefox 98.0.1 (64-bit)
WaterGirl
@Bill Arnold:
Just wanting to be sure I understand what you mean by “tweet images”…
Are you referring to a screen capture of a tweet? It is possible to link an image to a URL, so that when you click on the static image it takes you to the tweet. That’s one more step for the front-pager, but they have the URL to begin with, so that’s one more step but not a particularly odious one. But if you’re talking about 20 or more tweets, that takes a lot more time.
different-church-lady
@WaterGirl: Yeah, doesn’t seem to be any way of doing it that would be both conclusive and not seriously disruptive.
Would there be a way of creating a special “test lab” clone of the front page at a sub-URL? Something we could monkey with but be separate from everyday BJ content?
O. Felix Culpa
The site is loading faster, but it still jumps around when I hit “refresh”: it goes to the bottom of the page and then shudders and keeps going back to the bottom when I try to scroll up to the comments. It takes determined scrolling to return to the wisdom of our jackal commenters! I’ve never experienced these problems until recently. In fact, I rarely experienced problems when the site still had ads, apart from occasional slow loading, FWIW.
Laptop, Windows 10, Chrome version 99.0.4844.74. Same issues on Android phone, also Chrome. Only within posts, and it seems to happen constantly, regardless of time of day (or night).
ETA: I tried clearing cookies as suggested by someone a while back; it had no positive effect
ETA2: I’m generally not on the site in the middle of the night, so the comments about early morning cache issues might apply.
waysel
@WaterGirl: Yes, I often read the front page, but frequently refresh thereafter to see the latest comments. Rereading your question, I’m not sure what “reading FROM the front page ” means.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker:
I agree that there has always been a lag, but Twitter is constantly changing their code and whatever they did recently pushed it way over the edge.
It also appears to be not just browser-dependent but also browser-version dependent.
It’s my opinion that Twitter wants to be king of the world on the internet, and they continue to add hurdles for access to tweets unless you are on their site, and logged in. So that Twitter becomes your literal HOME on the internet instead of blogs or other websites.
What remains to be seen is whether Twitter will succeed in that or whether they will find that they are being too cute by half, and it backfires.
Rusty
It loads much faster on my very crappy android phone. Thank you and I appreciate the extra time it takes to generate the posts. No complaints, all gratitude (a most un-Balloon Juice comment).
J R in WV
I use Ubuntu V 18 on one laptop and V 20 on the other one, with several ad blockers and security tools, which somehow keep Twitter images and videos from appearing on the balloon juice site at all.
I have to click on them and go into Twitter to see graphics of any type. Therefore, no problems with load times before or since.
I only click on things that seem really interesting funny or seriously. Cute animals or RU tanks going POP from Turkish drones, which seem to be the cat’s meow for armor defense.
WV Blondie
Works perfectly now on my desktop computer. I’ll try my Android phone later today – if it works, thank you! (And thank you anyhow for all your hard work!)
satby
I tend to agree. Most people aren’t up so early they are the late night / wee hours time drag.
West of the Rockies
It was Twitter killed the beast…
WaterGirl
@different-church-lady: The thing is, to measure how the page size and performance is related to “above the fold or not”, you cannot be IN a particular thread.
Because once you are in a thread, there is no “above the fold”. In a thread, you get the whole thread. The front page is the only place where “above the hold” actually functions.
I could reduce the # of posts that show up on the front page for the testing, but people do not like disruptions. I may see if the developers can duplicate our site on a test site so I could do some testing there without disrupting the actual site.
Another Scott
Things are significantly better with the stuttering-jiggly repainting on refreshing of formerly tweet-heavy posts like AL’s morning COVID updates. Now, on my S20+ Android phone running the Brave browser, if I scroll down to the Pie and do a refresh, there’s one shift of the page as the tweets fill and that’s it. No more of the shift-jiggle, shift-jiggle, shift-jiggle cycle. It’s much better.
The smoke test will be for the Mac and iOS users, apparently.
Progress! Thanks very much. Sorry for the hassle for the FPers.
Cheers,
Scott.
lee
@WaterGirl: Right now mostly experience. Here is what I am basing it on:
When I click to expand the post it displays immediately without a load time. This is regardless of what content is below the fold.
When I expand the fold the loading icon of the browser I’m on does not appear at all.
I’ll check and verify in a bit.
WaterGirl
@waysel: You are commenting in this thread. Look at the bar in your browser where it shows the URL.
Does it say some version of balloon-juice.com/2022/03/17/update-site-loading-hanging ETC?
If you are “reading from the front page”, you will see “https://balloon-juice.com”. When you are on the front page, you cannot see comments. Once you hit “POST + COMMENTS” or you click on the number of comments, you are no longer one the front page, you are inside a particular post/thread.
Refreshing on the front page does not allow you to see comments.
Ruckus
Loads noticeably better now than it did 2 days ago.
iMac Monterey 12.3 Safari 15.4 Updated Monterey yesterday Safari updated at the same time this seems to help quite a bit for those of us using fruit for a computer.
Nola78
Hi. Thank you. This loading at this time (10:00 AM) of the post about the improvement was great. Sorry, On my phone.
waysel
@WaterGirl: I understand. I am currently
“in the comments”, and I use the Refresh button at the upper left to see the newest comments. MacBook Pro always. I don’t internet on my phone.
eachother
It was interesting to watch the page scroll and give up. Like watching a slot machine spin. No cherries or sevens.
Close as I get to a casino.
Hasn’t happened since Monday.
Thought it was my opposable magnetism.
WaterGirl
@lee: That is a most excellent test.
I never read from the front page, I go from post to post using the fly-outs. Or I go to a post from Leaf, my RSS reader.
I opened the BJ front page just now, went to the bottom of the page, clicked on “5” to go to page 5, which would be 30 posts ago.
Page 5 takes forever to load, scrolled down to Adam’s Ukraine post, and the “show full post on front page” link doesn’t turn blue (become clickable) until everything has loaded. Then it all appears immediately.
lee
@WaterGirl: Verified for desktop.
https://imgur.com/a/KD3RWyR
Of course I picked a post with very little text below the fold. When I did an inspect on the ‘fold’ the text and links were already loaded in the browser (see highlighted area).
Of course this is the desktop site. Mobile might be different (but doubtful)
Dorothy A. Winsor
I like having embedded tweets because I can click on them, be taken to the tweet, and follow the discussion there.
A Ghost to Most
My Garmin Overlander browser, from Billy Bob’s Browsers, apparently, is kinder to your website than to many. Good luck.
Ruckus
@Ruckus:
WaterGirl
Just did what you did, bottom of front page clicked on 5 and it loaded in about 10-15 seconds, which seems normal to me the servers would not have that in the front of the queue. The front page loads faster. That is an immense improvement. I’d say it’s back to it’s old self or very close.
I don’t know what apple did in their update but it seems like the problem was a lot on my/apple’s end. Possibly how they now handle security and interaction with twitter.
Betty Cracker
@WaterGirl: Sounds about right. I use Chrome as my browser, for what it’s worth. If Twitter’s strategy really is to make embedding tweets difficult so that everyone migrates to Twitter, that’s pretty dumb, IMO. One of the things I value most about Twitter is that it points me to longer-form content, not just at blogs but at online newspapers, magazine sites, etc., which also tend to embed tweets on their pages, so it’s reciprocal. If that goes away, I’ll spend less time on Twitter, not more. Though I suspect I’m not their target user.
Soprano2
Sometimes when I click on the comments link, it just takes me to the post, and I have to click on it again to get to the comments. This happens both on my Android S21 phone and my desktop computer in Chrome browser. Also, when I click on the link in the comments to go to the bottom comment, it goes to the bottom of the whole page and I have to scroll back up to get to the last comment. Seems like it didn’t used to do that.
AndyG
This change immediately fixed the problems of loading on an iPad. Thank you so much and FYWP (and/or Twitter)…..
raven
Let the madness begin.
CAM-WA
@WaterGirl: I would bet (maybe only half a month’s rent) that WP DOES load an entire page at initial page load. They would almost have to, since if they didn’t, it would take a really long time for the rest of the page to load when one clicked to see what’s below the fold. Websites typically do this.
BUT, that’s supposed to happen in the background, and not hang up the viewing of the part above the fold while the rest loads.
CAM-WA
Cole’s fascistic* edict has made BJ readable for the 1st time in 2-3 weeks! And it’s even much better than before the latest wonkiness.
See, making the trains run on time* really does work to gain the loyalty of the people.
*OK, so maybe with the current geopolitical situation this isn’t very funny. Sorry.
different-church-lady
Perhaps this is Twitter’s way of curing us of our Twitter problem.
EthylEster
Just want to add my two cents, which should be heavily discounted because I have pretty much stopped reading and commenting here.
I loathe the recent switch to heavy dependence here on twitter captures. And I loathed the previous not-so-recent move to embedding twitter stuff. I really hate twitter on every level. Its stupidity is normalized here and many other sites. And it takes up so much screen real estate. Worthless. I understand my opinion is in the minority. Party on!
Gin & Tonic
@EthylEster: For those of us who follow the situation in Ukraine closely, Twitter is indispensable.
Jackie
MUCH better! The two “Must Read” posts – AL’s Covid updates and Adam’s Ukraine updates were mostly impossible to upload and refresh. I breezed through both last night and this morning.?
matt
I wasn’t encountering any problems before with the site loading on my Macbook Pro, and I still am not encountering any problems.
WaterGirl
@Soprano2:
I am not entirely sure what you mean by “when I click on the comments link”.
Do you mean this one that says 53 comments in the image below?
Or do you mean this one that’s inside the rectangle?
The top one takes you directly to the comments.
The second one that’s in the rectangle box opens the post itself takes you to the top of the post .
WaterGirl
@CAM-WA: Yes, what I tested a few minutes ago made it clear that when you load the front page it loads everything, not just want is visible.
It loads everything under the fold, even though we don’t see what’s under the fold unless we click to see it all.
So it’s there, and loaded, just not visible.
JimV
I had stopped complaining and learned to live with the Twitter Bombs (click on the BJ bookmark and get up and do something else for 10 minutes or so), but I appreciate all the efforts and they do seem to have had an effect.
Mind you, my prediction of Technological Equilibrium, circa 2001, still looks good: rather than a Singularity, as technology changes faster and faster, we will reach an equilibrium in which new, buggy technology replaces older technology before all the bugs are out of the old technology, and no real progress occurs.
Bevstersf
Site loaded cleanly for the first time in days. One less source of frustration in life. Thank you.
WaterGirl
@pibor69067: This looks like a partial copy of Gin & Tonic’s comment.
I can’t tell if this comment from you was intentional or if something went wrong. If you reply, I will see your reply, even though it will be in moderation.
Once I know whether you are a new commenter, I can release you from moderation.
Fiona
Much better loading seen from this mostly-a-lurker.
WaterGirl
@Fiona: Yay, thanks for chiming in!
different-church-lady
@JimV: new code is just old code with new stuff added to it, so none if the bugs are ever going to go away.
Baud
The only problem I ever had was the site going to the top of the page. Haven’t noticed it today.
topclimber
Working fine on w10 laptop with Firefox latest version. Android phone ok too.
Thank you!!
Ruckus
@EthylEster:
There is a lot to dislike/hate about twitter.
But. There is information there, there often is information there that is much harder to get anywhere else. It is a slog to get through the fluff and BS but it is worth it – at times. As G & T says at #71 for Ukraine coverage it is vital. So this is one of those times.
CODave
Wouldn’t load at all last night. Looks perfect this am. Mac household with recent equipment.
different-church-lady
@Ruckus: We had this debate about Facebook too. It was “indispensable” and important despite the costs. But the biggest reason it wound up in that position is that it had crowded out everything else, including things that might have been healthier.
Two takeaways:
1) It’s a mindshare problem. If Twitter is viewed as the only tool that counts, the nobody will use any other tool. The indispensability no longer has any linkage to the merit.
2) Information monocultures are just as hazardous as biological ones.
@Ruckus:
lee
@Gin & Tonic: I was resistant to Twitter for a long time. I’m not sure if the war in Ukraine is going to be its ‘moment’ but it certainly feels that way.
Once it is all said and done, I’m sure there is going to be some PhDs earned by studying the information/disinformation of the war on Twitter.
SiubhanDuinne
Much better. The jerkiness is gone, and I’m not getting this failure to connect messages any more. Safari, iPhone.
Many thanks to you and John, and to the FPs for adhering to the new policy.
WaterGirl
Okay, it’s 1pm and I just added something to this page as a test.
I added a link to a separate PAGE (which is different from a post/thread.
You can add comments to a POST.
A PAGE is a static item, and there are no comments.
I just made a PAGE of 10 tweets – the same tweet duplicated 10 times, a most excellent 10-minute video of President Zelensky (from a few days ago).
I added a link to the page.
From the tests I have run, it does not appear to slow down the post itself, or the load time of the post, but if you click the link it gives you access to 10 more tweets. (the same tweet 10x for this test, but obviously it would be 10 different tweets).
If you were on this page before 1pm Eastern and you are still here, please let me know if the page load takes longer than it did this morning. I believe it will not, but I want to hear it from you guys because real life is not the same as a test.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: SD, can you load the page again and let me know if you see any difference based on the change I made about 10 minutes ago?
Itinerantpedant
BETTER!!!
To elaborate: mildly better on my late model iPhones and iMac. WILDLY better on my older than Steve Jobs iPad.
(ETA: always with latest Safari)
Michael Cain
Linux desktop with Firefox. The behavior of the front page, at least, is greatly improved this morning.
On the “Ten Tweets on a Page” page, there’s a hesitation and then all ten copies of the embedded tweet get redrawn at once. Based on others’ comments, that’s probably a matter of the browser being smart enough to recognize that they’re the same tweet, getting the accurate size information for all of them from the first one, and only redoing the layout once. A page with ten different embedded tweets might be a more useful test.
Mary G
One section of my cardiologist team wants to do a blade abatement on me immediately. Another section thinks I am not in good condition and need to completely change the drug regimen with several days of days of rest and the last faction thinks no one should ever have a blade abatement whatsoever.
The nurses and physical therapists are well integrated and do excellent work. Some of them assume authority that definitely doesn’t belong to them. One cardiologist told me to wear my bpap (cpap machine with two holes) day and night whenever I could do it – sleeping, napping or just lying around, and that it’s VERY IMPORTANT as it’s the only way to dispose of the CO2 that is about 30% of the air sitting around outside my heart we need to get rid of. The night and afternoon nurses don’t approve of the bpap and wouldn’t call for it. I am too weak to get out of bed and get it. They don’t know to use it so a respiratory specialist has to be called. He resents the waste of time they give him. I tell him in my Bossy Voice to hand the mask to me on power #9 when he feels he must end the pretending tinkering he can go. He handed me the mask, pushed the start button, and left. The nurses are unimpressed.
The doctors almost all.wear their white jackets with the insignia of a medical corporation so they don’t know their colleagues. It creeps me out.
Is my nex step demanding to see a third outside expert?
4D*hiker
Much better on ipad. No longer crashing. Thanks.
Eunicecycle
Much faster loading today. Thanks!
WaterGirl
@Mary G: Is someone managing your care? Or is it a whole team kind of place?
If the first, can you contact that person about all the ambiguity? If the second, can you contact the team leader about all the ambiguity?
Seems like you need an advocate. Is there such a thing as a patient advocate who could help get some clarity?
John Carlyle
For me, who has for the last 10 years used Safari on an iPad with the latest iOS, today is the first time ever that BJ has loaded quickly. FYI, I’m now using an iPad 6th generation with iOS v15.3.1.
As someone said above, I used to hit BJ bookmark in Safari and find something else to do for 10 minutes. Then, after a few days of enjoying BJ I would see an error message to the effect that Safari cannot load this page because it has required too many reloads. The only way to get BJ to load then was to hard reboot my iPad. As an aside, the situation had gotten so bad that I had stopped reading BJ for all of 2020.
So thank you for the new policy! Please keep it going so we can all enjoy a speedy load of BJ.
-John
PS – it’ll be interesting to see if the “too many page reloads” error shows up again
lee
@WaterGirl: That’s actually a good idea. The 10 Tweets page loaded as expected for me. Loaded 5 tweets at a time for me.
I’m not sure that is a workable solution for most readers. They would have to click on a post then another page to get the tweets then back to the post to comment.
For me it would be a right click and open in new tab for the page.
WaterGirl
@John Carlyle: Please send me an email message if you see that error again – I wasn’t aware that anyone was getting that error.
Alternately, you could let me know by using the Site Feedback form that’s in the site.
In the meantime, welcome back!
Tenar Arha
FTR I never had any major issues with all the embedded Tweets, though I did notice the loading lags. Also today is significantly better with the current limitations on Twitter embeds. If all the Tweet roundups are causing major issues with the site, or crashing people’s composing windows or entire browsers using a mix of photos & embeds seems like a decent workaround.
(OTOH I didn’t particularly mind waiting for all the Tweets to load, so if this is causing our volunteer front pagers a whole lot of extra effort & time just to lay out their posts, I can wait for an easier fix to implement than “everyone who does these roundups has extra work.”)
Mousebumples
Android phone, Brave browser.
No real change, but no prior issues. Though I load the site via RSS usually, versus the main page, so that might be why?
I can get you more OS details if it would be helpful. Just shoot me an email since I’m probably going to forget to check back in this thread for any replies.
WaterGirl
@lee: If you can stick around for a few minutes, I can put up another made with 10 different tweets so we can see if that impacts the speed. I don’t expect it to because I don’t think the site cache is that smart, but it might be, so I’d like to do the test.
O. Felix Culpa
Update: Whatever you did, WG, seems to have worked. No more herky-jerky behavior when I refresh. Thanks!
WaterGirl
I added a second update up top, with a PAGE with 10 different tweets.
Asking for feedback on how that this post behaves AND how that PAGE behaves when you click on it.
Right-click to open it in a new tab. Balloon Juice automatically opens a new tab for External Sites but not for other Balloon Juice pages.
John Carlyle
@WaterGirl: OK, will do if the reloading error shows up again. Hopefully I’ll never see it again. Glad to be back!
WaterGirl
@John Carlyle: Glad to have you back.
Quiltingfool
@Gin & Tonic: I agree (Twitter re Ukraine). I am very selective about the accounts I follow on Twitter and that is helpful to me.
On another note, I very much appreciate your insights on Ukraine and Ukrainians. I know this is a difficult time for you, your family and your friends, so I am even more thankful you take the time to educate and enlighten. Blessings be upon you and yours.
Johannes
Much better on my battered, underpowered iPad.
John Carlyle
FWIW, I tried test 1 from the home page. It loaded very slowly, getting slower as each new twit loaded. The effect was worse with test 2 – much, much slower loading. Contact me via email if you’d like more testing done.
grandmaBear
Also a big improvement for me with Safari on older ipad. My iMac hadn’t been too bad but could be caching and/or RAM issue. Thank you for working through this and sorry to put you thru all the extra work. As for many here, Adam’s and AL’s tweet filled posts have been essential reading, and I’ve been keeping them open in tabs to follow all the comments, but had just resolved to put up with the slowdown because the posts were so important. Thanks to all.
different-church-lady
@WaterGirl: just tried test 2 on the modern iPhone. Loaded plenty fast, but it might take a lot more to bog down a 13mini than just 10 tweets.
I can try on an elderly iPad later, don’t have it with me at the moment.
dougcb68
Loading with no problems now.
Both test 1 and test 2 load as they should. Thanks and good luck.
Noskilz
Both test posts loaded without a hitch for me – but I also have not experienced any problems with the site loading. I read the site on a win10 desktop.
WaterGirl
Momentarily removing the links to the two test pages.
waysel
Test 1 and Test 2 loaded equally well for me. About 5 seconds for each test. MacBook Pro, Safari, Chrome
WaterGirl
@WaterGirl: And the links to the two test pages of tweets are back.
WaterGirl
@waysel: And having those two links in there didn’t seem to make a difference in load time?
Are you clicking those links from the front page or from inside this particular post?
waysel
@WaterGirl:
@WaterGirl: I tested each link from a fresh front page. The front page itself loads quicker than test 1 or 2. It loads in about 3 seconds or less. I missed the chance to test the front page with the test links removed, so no idea if that affected loading time.
WaterGirl
@waysel: Interesting.
But their presence didn’t slow down the front page load, correct?
I am less concerned about how long it takes to get to an auxiliary page that has an extra 10 links. More concerned about the BJ front page and the individual posts themselves.
Front page, because that’s how a lot of people get to the blog.
Individual posts/threads because every time people comment, the page gets loaded again. So if it’s slow, it’s slow over and over and over.
waysel
@WaterGirl: I missed the window of time you had removed the test links, so I don’t know if the front page would load even faster without them. It loads very quick and smooth at present, but 5 or 10 actual tweets loading might be a different story.
WaterGirl
@waysel:
Not sure what you’re referring to there. Can you say more?
If the front page is still loading well if i have those two links to PAGES in a post, and if the post/thread itself is loading well if I have the two links to PAGES in a post, then this solution will work fine.
FlyingToaster
VAST improvement overall this morning.
MacBookPro, Monterey, Firefox Latest with adblockers (Balloon-Juice and Twitter whitelisted), Chrome Latest with Disconnect for Facebook only.
Test 1: Firefox took about a minute to load, with the ongoing random painting errors (screen bouncing around). 5 tweets loaded in the first 10 seconds, then nothing, then one at a time the remainder. No temporary box while the repainting was happening. Chrome hung with the text-box (no tweet, no graphic), but displayed everything within a second.
Refresh on Firefox did the text box/wipe/repaint, but only took about 4 seconds. Refresh on Chrome: no change.
Test 2: Firefox took about 30 seconds to load (?), but still the random painting (the last tweet painted was #4). Chrome was exactly the same as test 1 (text box only).
Refresh on Firefox was about 15 seconds (text box/wipe/repaint). Chrome still all text box.
Hope this helps.
Shane in SLC
It’s been working better for my on my iPhone 8 running Safari: no crashes in a couple of days, and the test post opened okay. Thanks!
waysel
@WaterGirl: Just reiterating what we seem to know: links to tweets are way less volatile and time hoggish than including the whole tweet itself on the front page. I guess.
LongHairedWeirdo
Random thought: if putting embeds in is expensive (performance/loadingwise), can you include lists of twitter links? Twitter has been acting differently for me recently (within the past 6 months) especially in situations where embedding is a big issue. (Think “daily Covid-19 posts” which have lots of tweets.)
I believe there’s a security issue involved – I remember that things started changing a bit when there were changes to browsers and tracking. (Now, that said: changes to trackers was made more than 6 months ago – I saw differences browsing this site over two different networks that had different default security settings. It’s just, over the past six months, Twitter has been even less useful, and more annoying.)
The long and the short of what I’m saying above is, have you tried including blank, https:// links, not using embedding, to allow people to see what interested you, without embedding too many tweets as tweets? You’d still need policies regarding not overloading the embedding, but for a tweet-heavy post, it might let you sneak in a few more than tweet-embedding allows.
waysel
@WaterGirl: Re reading your questions I have been confusing ‘front page’ with individual posts. I haven’t been tracking front page loading times when I’ve been testing today. The solution does seem to work fine. Sorry if I added to confusion.
Priest
Tested briefly this afternoon and did not experience the multiple reloads/error screen, or the excessive battery drain. Can try again late tonight to see if results hold up, but this is promising.
Scout211
I would suggest these tests be repeated again this evening. The only time recently that the i couldn’t even access the site was in the evening when one of Adams’s posts was on the front page. Chrome and Safari on iPhone 13 iOS 15.4.
The test pages needed about 5-10 seconds to load but that is an improvement over the past week on both on the iPhone and iPad Pro, 1st generation, Chrome iOS 15.3.1 The COVID post this morning was the fastest it has ever loaded for me as far as I can remember (iPad).
HumboldtBlue
Youse are some good eggs.
JaneE
Tweets were always slow to load graphics & pix, the basic text showed up immediately, and then sometime later the graphics and the tweet being referenced in the tweet would show up. Chrome browser, latest version, both Windows 10 and Android 12. Phone was slower than desktop (no surprise, older wifi and 4G service).
Tuesday was bonkers, on the phone because I was away from home. Scrolling, refreshing?, going to the bottom of the page, then back to the top, no matter what post I was on. Never did see the graphic parts of tweets. Didn’t seem to make a difference if I clicked through or showed full post on front page.
Much better today. Back to the usual slight lag for grapics/pix on windows. Haven’t been using the phone today yet. I always assumed it was just slow getting the data to my computer, rather than any particular problem. Occasionally annoying, but what isn’t these days?
sab
@MinuteMan: This has pretty much been my experience. The site loaded very slowly, so by the time the embeds came through I was already down in thecomments. And everything bounced around so much.
I rarely followed the embedded stuff back to where it came through because often it’s a paywall blocked site or youtube, so why bother. And twitter ( I have an account but I find it hatd to follow.)
Much much better today.
I am on a Nook ( Samsung Galaxy) I go in through Chrome and then find Balloon Juice through Google.
My husband is on an IPhone and has found the loading horribly slow, and often he gets kicked off partway through. He never reads comments. He hasn’t been on yet today.
He also goes in through his Nook which is pretty much like my experience
My Nook is Samsumg Galaxy Tab E , Android 7.1.1.1
Tenar Arha
@WaterGirl:
iPhone 11 Pro (if maybe a more recent chip matters)
iOS 15.3.1
DuckDuckGo Browser 7.65.12.0
From clicking on the embedded tests:
Test 1 : about 2 Mississippis to load
Test 2: almost 3 Mississippis to load
(I’ll check some other browsers on my phone, but posting this in the meantime to save it).
ETA
Firefox Browser 97
From clicking on the embedded tests:
Test 1 : < 3 Mississippis to load
Test 2: < 4 Mississippis to load
Tenar Arha
@Tenar Arha:
@WaterGirl:
Chrome Browser 98.0.4758.97
From clicking on the embedded tests:
Test 1 : > 3 Mississippis to load
Test 2: ~ 2 Mississippis to load
NB I generally haven’t been clearing my browser cache between tests, even when I’m opening new tabs.
Jenny Howard
no issues before or now including on both test pages. Android phone using Chrome
KSinMA
Very significant improvement–like night and day. Thank you!
iphone 8, version 15.21, Firefox 98.0
Tenar Arha
@Tenar Arha:
@WaterGirl:
Aaand, my last browser test
Safari 15
From clicking on the embedded tests:
Test 1 : < 4 Mississippis to load
Test 2 : > 4 Mississippis to load
Ruckus
@different-church-lady:
I’m actually not arguing with you that twitter is crap. I believe it is and your point about no one coming up with something better because everyone uses twitter is valid. But unless you or I or someone comes up with an alternate system that works and isn’t twitter, this is the best that we have. Humans are followers, sheep if you will, even if not at the same level as said sheep. Some are worse, more lemming like. Some will resist belonging/joining in just on the principle of not being part of a group that they don’t like for a reason that they can’t actually often explain. Humans are/can be weird. I gave up trying to explain it long ago, I just try to get along and stay out of the way of the crazy assholes. You know people that think that cigs won’t kill you, or that playing with a loaded gun is fun or driving 60 on city streets is just dandy, or that covid is just like a mild cold, or I’m such a badass I don’t need a vaccine, etc, etc.
currawong
I had a problem a few months ago with tweets not loading and had a discussion with @WaterGirl about it. I assumed it was my PC as I was having similar issues on other sites. I was having to read BJ on my phone as that seemed to work better.
Tweets have been loading OK recently, though they are always the last thing to resolve.
WaterGirl
@currawong: So you are not seeing a difference today as compared to earlier in the week?
BeautifulPlumage
The issue of jumping to the bottom after a refresh is much better on today’s post, but both of your test pages above load slow and jump after a refresh. Moto power with chrome browser just now.
ETA I commented in yesterday’s post, so better from that point.
WaterGirl
@BeautifulPlumage: Is Moto a phone?
FYI, there is no need to refresh either of the PAGES that are linked because those are static – there are no comments on those pages, so once you get to the tweets, you should be fine.
Unless I’m not understanding something about your situation.
BeautifulPlumage
@WaterGirl: yes,Motorola phone. When I went to the test pages they loaded and let me move around the page. I did a refresh just to test while I was partway down the post and that’s when it jumps to the bottom before it then let’s me move around the page although, as you point out, there are no comments or new info.
WaterGirl
@BeautifulPlumage: Thanks for clarifying.
WaterGirl
Thanks to everyone who has weighed in already! And a request that the evening folks also let me know how things are behaving now that we have the new policy in place.
I’ll check back for evening comments in the morning. Thanks again to everyone for your patience.