“O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.” — Voltaire
Mike Gibbons and Josh Mandel get in each other’s faces at tonight’s GOP #OHSen forum hosted by FreedomWorks.
“You watch what happens,” Mandel says. pic.twitter.com/fQuqfHxXHT
— Heartland Signal (@HeartlandSignal) March 18, 2022
Heartland Signal politely did not include Mandel’s full quote, in which he called Gibbons a “pussy.” Whip out the rulers already, fellas. HuffPo:
Mandel, meanwhile, has been running his campaign through evangelical churches and has the endorsement of 114 Ohio pastors.
The Ohio Democratic Party released a short statement after the forum:
“We encourage every voter to watch this forum and see for themselves why these Republicans do not deserve to be in the United States Senate.”
Good news for Tim Ryan? Open thread!
germy
No JD Vance at this debate?
Baud
@germy:
Too much of a pussy to attend?
debbie
I wonder if that “pussy” will catch TFG’s attention? //
narya
I can only hope that they make such public fools of themselves that it IS good news for us. The media loves a horse race, and if the race is all on one side, and it’s all a race to the bottom, maybe it’ll help just enough. “Here on the right is a damn fool who’s been saying these crazy things, and here on the left is a normal, boring person who will work to make sure all Ohioans have good representation.”
narya
@Baud: @debbie: Back when I played handball and the men started calling each other “pussy,” I would note that the word was only an insult until they wanted some.
eclare
@narya: That is my hope as well…
Betty Cracker
@germy: Vance is there — he’s the dude smirking in an armchair on the right side of the screen.
Ohio Mom
@germy: JD Vance is on the far right of the stage, laying low.
ETA: I see Betty got here first.
He has a beard, plays with his tie and after the fight’s been broken up, stands and adds, “Hey, guys.” As effective as he’ll be as a legislator.
debbie
@narya:
They’re very obviously vying for TFG’s attention, and as we’ve learned, that requires unprovoked, stupid behaviors. “Lookatme! Lookatme!”
germy
@Betty Cracker:
Ah yes, I see him now
Another one for the “O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.” file:
A few weeks ago I mentioned a local lazik eye doctor who abruptly ended two different interviews with two different local media outlets up here in my neck of the woods.
More recent news:
debbie
@Ohio Mom:
I love how Mandel gets belly to belly with Gibbons. So street. Then Vance stands to show to everyone that he’s actually the biggest, baddest belly.
We’re gonna need a bigger clown car!
germy
@debbie:
Which one is the good guy with a gun?
Eventually a Republican primary debate will end in a shooting. This I predict.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
The body language here floors me, and had me rooting for injuries because I hate them all.
Gibbons really wanted a face full of fist by standing over Mandel, and compounded it by remaining aggressive when Mandel stood up. Mandel should have chest thumped him to back off (no foul in that), as he’s a few inches taller, but just ran his chickenshit mouth instead.
Ohio Mom
Repeating the comment I left on the NFT thread:
Josh Mandel’s campaign slogan is “For God. For Family. For Bitcoin.”
Bitcoin because the government is untrustworthy, and as the old joke goes, Mandel is out to prove it.
In case you need reminding, Mandel was Ohio’s state treasurer for a short while. His name is plastered all over the original printed materials and debit card for Ohio Son’s ABLE account (sort of like a 529 account for disabled youth). Of course many Republican’s arms had to be twisted to get Congress to pass the law allowing states to set up the program (looking at you Rob Portman), Mandel putting his name all over the program is just another example of Republicans taking credit for popular programs they opposed.
Betty Cracker
Mandel seems truly unhinged. I already had that impression from seeing a few of his brainless and malevolent tweets, but it’s something to see in person.
germy
Here is “Dr” David Kwiat. He looks exactly like you’d expect him to look
artem1s
And this is only the Ohio Senate primary. The 2024 POTUS GOP primary is going to be this times 100. TFG ruins everything he touches.
germy
@Betty Cracker:
“Mr. Trump only respects candidates who forcefully stand up for themselves. He only respects fighters. I am that man”
(I made up this quote. I just assume this is his thought process)
sab
God I am proud to be an Ohioan.
Clown car when JD Vance is among the reasonable ones.
Looks like we will have two primaries, since they can’t come up with legislative district maps that meet legal muster after a third try, with the state Supreme Court telling them the same things yet again, that the parts of the constitutional amendment the Republican legislators do not like are not optional. So thei state legislators’ solution is to try and impeach the Republican Chief Justice who insists on following the law not the party position.
germy
Who is the woman candidate on the stage? Is she a reasonable alternative to the men, or just as unhinged?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Also note – Gibbons’ arm holding the mic actually is dropping. He thinks he’s in it for real and reacting physically, which is normal. Mandel is trying to act tough, but the mic never leaves his mouth and he says “two tours in Iraq” at least twice.
sab
@debbie: Running government like a business?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@sab: Like a Trump business….
Betty
@germy: I believe she has also been vying for Trump’s approval so that probably answers your question.
debbie
@germy:
Jane Timken. She’s the past Ohio GOP Chairman/woman. She’s getting zero oxygen. Her opponents’ ads always superimpose Nancy Pelosi’s face over hers.
sab
@germy: Jane Timken, wife of a steel magnate who had his employees pack up his steel mills and ship the equipment off to China where he had sold it.
She’s very bright, Harvard lawyer, hated Trump until she came on board to be his biggest cheerleader. But she is a woman in the GOP, so (thankfully) she probably has no chance. Also she was head of the state party the last few years and used her position to advance her own prospects, like Dick Cheney did.
Shalimar
@germy: She (Jane Timken) and Mandel are the two front-runners. I guess she’s the reasonable candidate, she isn’t making any effort to compete with Mandel and Vance’s outrageous tweets and statements, but she will still vote like the other 49 Republican senators every single time.
germy
Ahh… Jane Timken:
“tough on China”
(from her homepage)
sab
@sab: I was wrong about Harvard Law. Timken went to American University law school.
germy
How to Channel the Delusional Confidence of Your College Alumni Association Asking You for Money
mrmoshpotato
“Behold these idiots with your own eyes! There’s video of this garbage! And vote blue in November!”
germy
@sab:
Maybe she’ll end up on the Supreme Court!
ThresherK
Anne Laurie thanks for the cat advice in downstairs thread. This mouse looked pretty adult.
I lucked out being able to carry her with the mouse outside but I’ll try the treat method if there’s a next time
germy
Selfie with cat:
mrmoshpotato
@germy:
“But mah FREEDUMB! I’m going man sue you!”
debbie
@Shalimar:
No, Gibbons leads, followed by Mandel. Timken’s made practically zero progress.
germy
@mrmoshpotato:
He pissed off everybody. That butcher is popular in the community. The lazik doc walked in looking for a conflict.
Baud
@debbie:
Pussies rule!
Kay
@germy:
One of the best parts. After Gibbons and Mandel have the fight and both are seated, Vance stands up and tells them to “sit down” and then says Mandel is “disgraceful” because Mandel uses his military service to dodge questions.
germy
Here’s the next republican primary debate:
Dorothy A. Winsor
I assume you all saw that Don Young, R rep from Alaska, died yesterday.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I did not. Too bad Alaska isn’t competitive.
soapdish
Rooting for injuries!
Kay
The question Mandel won’t answer is “have you worked in the private sector?” (he won’t answer because he hasn’t) so that’s when he pulls out “two tours in Iraq”.
Kay does not care, but obviously it’s a huge insult in the GOP not to have private sector experience.
mrmoshpotato
@germy:
Settling differences with a duel. It would only be appropriate for a party that’s so far in the past.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Baud: He collapsed during a flight from LA to Seattle (I think) and couldn’t be resuscitated. How’s that for an exciting trip?
germy
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
MazeDancer
“Stacey Abrams Does Not Deserve to Be President of Earth”
What passes for clickbait at NRO is a frothing attack on Star Trek “Discovery” using big nerd, and huge Star Trek fan, Stacey Abrams to play “President of Earth” in one of their shows
Stone cold racist. Absolutely nuts. Really badly written piece.
Though, I have never read a National Review article, maybe they all are.
The responses to the NRO tweet are fun.
https://twitter.com/nro/status/1504950782449397765?s=21
Kay
@mrmoshpotato:
Oh, God no. It’ll be a big embarrassing pushing fight that ends with no one getting hurt (maybe a tumble if one is knocked off balance) and everyone looking stupid. That’s where this is headed.
sab
@germy: Wow! Zippidy doo dah indeed. No wonder Boehner was so happy to quit.
germy
So many of them don’t, though.
As far as their voters… In the last three places we’ve lived, we’ve had right wing neighbors. Each of them spent their entire working lives in town government. They’d vote consistently republican, spouted every fox news talking point, but had zero experience doing anything in the private sector.
sab
@Kay: So basically elementary school playground?
Ohio Mom
@debbie: I’m not following the Republican primary candidates because I’d have to work to track it and it’s not like I have to choose among them.
But I am saddened to hear Gibbons is leading, to this casual observer he looks straight out of central casting, playing an old-fashioned “nice” Republican. Extending that logic, he’s older, therefore more mature, and of course, male.
I’d like Ryan to have a more obviously sillier opponent. I’ll continue to hope Sherrod Brown’s guidance will give Ryan the needed edge.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@germy:
“We spend so much money maintaining our endowed buildings, lecture halls, staffing for endowed chairs and 15 layers of administrative bureaucracy (with each individual at pay levels higher than that of the President of the United States) to lash it all together that we need your contributions just to make basic operating costs. Won’t you please give to Average Public College? We’ll have a reception for donors at our new 200 million dollar Koch-Mercer-DeVos Lecture Center, conveniently located next to our new 80,000 seat football stadium and world class training center, which will come in handy as we transition over from FCS to FBS…”
germy
@MazeDancer:
It’s always been a racist publication. It was founded by William F. Buckley. Their archives are full of the most reprehensible views, and they continue their tradition today.
eclare
@Kay: My vote is for an ineffective arms’ length slap fest.
mrmoshpotato
@germy:
Not surprising that an anti-mask assclown was looking for a fight.
germy
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
“… and you should see what we pay our coaches.”
Kay
@germy:
Oh, I know. I’m surrounded by them. We used to play a game in the law office – find the health insurance. Find the health insurance that covers the rugged, Right wing small businessperson who opposes government health insurance but oddly seems not to worry about it. It was always a spouse with a government job.
eclare
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Nailed it.
mrmoshpotato
@eclare:
Will there be dancing? Will there be fish?
germy
His arms must have got tired.
Seriously though, he was horrible. And our side is unfailingly polite:
Our politicians are better than theirs.
Baud
@Kay:
Heh. It’s always something like that.
mrmoshpotato
@germy: WTF? I have so many questions.
Kay
@eclare:
Exactly the scenario, except it won’t get that far. No one will hit anyone. The worst possible injury will come from a fall. A lot of them already do what Mandel did- they regularly get right up into peoples faces. They hire people like this too. They all have incredibly aggressive hothead assholes as staff.
Shalimar
@debbie: thanks. I’m in Florida, so I do not follow closely, and this is the first time I have ever seen Gibbons’ name. Last year it was always Timkin, Mandel and Vance lumped together so when I read that Vance is a very distant 3rd, I just assumed 1st and 2nd were the only other names I knew.
Kay
@Baud:
“What does your wife do?” “She’s a teacher”. Found it! One question.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@germy:
“We have to pay that, so they don’t leave. But no, we shouldn’t set aside money for the players who are supporting the gigantic salaries of the sporting edifice that’s been built on their backs.”
zhena gogolia
@sab: Oh, how sad. //
germy
@Kay:
Our latest right wing neighbor (right across the street) had a gadsden flag in front of his house. His wife works for the school district (administrative support, not a teacher) and he drives a truck picking up yard waste for the city. But don’t tread on him. Or his government pension.
Baud
@Kay:
“Oh wow. I pay for your health insurance.”
Kay
This is an incredibly sympathetic article about the leader of the “Peoples Convoy” but that’s not what’s bad about it. What’s bad about it is he seems like a person who omits things that are perhaps inconvenient to the personal narrative he wants to present and I don’t think anyone checked what he said. It’s thin.
I will not be investigating him because I’m not an internet sleuth, but if I were I would have some questions. I just think it’s interesting who is extended credibility and who is not.
Baud
@Kay:
Corporate media gets very socialist when it comes to people portraying themselves as white working class who are against Democratic policies.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Kay:
After Watergate, it seemed like the mantra adopted by all the major newsrooms was “please don’t call us liberal” as they stretched and reached to create narratives they could claim showed “balance”.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone???
Kay
Yup. Probably a Democrat riding the bike that circles the campground holding the sign that says “Democrats are pedophiles”. I mean, Christ. It’s insulting.
Just hold a Republican rally, which is all this is. Why do they always have to dress it up as some historic event? Every single one of them will vote a straight GOP ticket.
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
Geminid
@Ohio Mom: As far as personal likeability goes, Tim Ryan would come off well against either Gibbons or Mandel, it seems to me. Mandel has a unique obnoxiousness, while Gibbons looks like the fat cat he is. Ryan has this goofy sincerity that does not seem fake. Republicans will have to lean hard into negative partisanship, and tie Ryan to Chuck Schumer and the nefarious “Squad.”
When I checked out the Emerson/NBC Ohio Senate poll from three weeks ago, I saw that the 300+ respondents on the Democratic side favored Ryan with 31% and showed three other candidates at around 5%, with 50% undecided.
The large number of undecided was a reminder to me that many people just do not give politics that much attention, even when there is an important race going on in their own state. My friend Stephanie is like that. She’d watch the most mediocre ball game before she would watch the best political show. But Stephanie comes out every November and votes for Democrats.
MomSense
Question for the jackals. Have you seen much/any coverage by mainstream media about the Rick Scott/GOP document? This document seems to me to be a big fucking gift to Democrats if the media will cover it.
Baud
@Geminid:
I think one of the biggest mistakes we consistently make is not recognizing how many people aren’t paying attention.
Baud
@MomSense: I’m not the best person to answer, but others here have noted that NPR has been covering it.
germy
@Kay:
The only Democrats are the local residents giving the truckers the finger.
Kay
So all they want is government composed exclusively of far Right Republicans, with better than 50% of the country completely shut out. We should give them that too. If we don’t we’re infringing on their rights.
Just a small ask. They get representative goverment and no one else does. If they don’t win every single election they will yell and scream and make it impossible to govern unless we accept their rule.
Why are you guys so unreasonable? Surely the plight of the Right wingers who lost an election tugs at your heart strings?
O. Felix Culpa
@MomSense:
Which is why they won’t
ETA: I gather from the comments that NPR has covered it. In the interest of my blood pressure, I don’t listen to them anymore. WaPo ran an article when Scott’s document was first issued, but I haven’t seen much coverage since then. After all, dismantling all social protections while raising taxes on the little people simply doesn’t have the caché of private servers.
Kay
@germy:
Every single speaker is a Republican. Every lit table, every book sold, every sign is either a GOP candidate or elected or a far Right nutcase. People can SAY anything but it shouldn’t be presented as his actual position if he doesn’t DO any of it. If they’re interviewing him they are SURROUNDED by evidence that his claims are not sincere. How do they ignore that?
Suzanne
Not necessarily good news for Tim Ryan. Don’t underestimate the number of voters who like candidates who act like trash because they themselves act like trash.
MomSense
@Baud:
I think they are underselling it. It’s really quite a radical departure from their pretend policy positions.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Baud:
So speaking of the word “socialist”, I’m attending multiple events this week in my bid to a nonpartisan judicial seat in an exurban area that runs over 60% histrionically conservative. I’ve made nice-nice with the GOP party leader of the largest demographic lump in the circuit (the county closest to the Peoples’ Democratic Socialist Gay Kenyan Shariah Republic of Louisville), and have made nice-nice with the Republicans in the next largest lump. The GOP guy who was nice to me is really not liking the newspaper article about the lone R candidate in the race (makes her look like a rage-fueled anti-Semite who made explicit threats to murder her ex-husband, and called him a fat Jew fuck who should go and count his money). He also doesn’t respect the incumbent, a registered independent without the courage of her convictions. I told him that as a JFK-type Democrat we probably share 95% of the same views, that the 5% we don’t share won’t be impacted by me being a judge, that at the age of 60 I’m not looking to build any empires, and that I have real ideas for improvement in the administration of that segment of the courts that can and should be discussed with the community at large before an election.
He appreciated that candor and approached, and said judicial elections are always a problem, because we’re prohibited from talking about so much that nobody sees value in having judicial candidate forums. I was so successful that he now wants to set one up, and told me of a number of meetings he wants me to attend.
My big problem is that in all of my selling out of progressivism, I’m obligated to attend a Reagan-Lincoln Day dinner in the next county over that will be headlining Rep Thomas Massie, who I’ve relentlessly pilloried over the years as an idiot, and am blocked from his Facebook and Twitter feeds. I’m going to have to keep my big trap in neutral and listen to several speeches by nutbags without guffawing.
Baud
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Nice finessing.
I’m surprised they haven’t replaced Lincoln with Trump yet.
Balloon Juice was good practice, I’m sure.
Ohio Mom
@Geminid: That’s a good way of describing Gibbons, a fat cat. I just think that some people find fat cats reassuring — he must be smart, look how successful he is!
So many other variables at play though, especially how the average clueless voter is feeling about Biden come November.
I’ll add that before the internet, when well-written, researched and reasoned sites became easily available to me, I was very much like your friend.
eclare
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Good luck! When is the election?
brendancalling
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: To be totally honest, I would have really enjoyed this if it came to blows.
It would have been hilariously bad optics for Mandel to have his ass handed to him by an old man, and even worse optics for Mandel to beat the crap out of a senior citizen.
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne: Or would like to act like trash, but are happy to have their political proxies do so for them because less direct risk to themselves. Does all this trash-admiring have its roots in the Jerry Springer Show? I do not understand seeing trash behavior as aspirational and, especially, wanting it in my political representatives.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I love hearing these updates on how your campaign is going
MomSense
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Times tables are your friend. Doing the times tables silently in my head has gotten me through many an uncomfortable situation without showing on my face what I’m thinking.
eclare
@O. Felix Culpa: Who knows? But one of my firm beliefs is that drama is overrated. I don’t want it in my personal life, or in the political world.
Give me a world where the biggest “scandal” is a tan suit.
Baud
@O. Felix Culpa:
Trashy gets attention, while whiteness gives protection.
eclare
@MomSense: Great advice! I add the number thirteen to itself as many times as needed.
Ken
Does he dislike it because it’s not true, or because it made the candidate look bad?
I seriously doubt it’s not true, newspapers wouldn’t print something like that without a reliable source, and ideally a recording. At least, not about a Republican.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@eclare:
Primary is May 17. I’ve raised some money; hopefully the yard signs I’ve deployed so far didn’t blow away last night and I’ve GOT to order some 4X8s today – I didn’t anticipate that need. Visibility is a factor.
Kay
@O. Felix Culpa:
I think Gibbons was really uncomfortable. He didn’t do well in the debate, even without Mandel’s ridiculous tough guy posturing which is an essential part of his act. Gibbon’s isn’t accustomed to being questioned or challenged, even with real questions. He was unprepared for it. He has the slightly offended demeanor of someone who never gets contradicted or challenged.
Im still rooting for Mandel because he’s the easiest to beat but Gibbons isn’t any good either. Tim Ryan has been lucky so far and as far as I’m concerned it’s holding.
Ken
Apropos of nothing, can you still buy syrup of ipecac over the counter?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@MomSense:
Nice! Maybe the Fibonacci sequence….
O. Felix Culpa
@eclare:
QFT. Although I hate the racist root of that “scandal.”
@Baud:
Ditto.
MomSense
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
And this is why I do not support free tuition. Community colleges and vocational schools should get all the love and money.
Baud
@O. Felix Culpa:
I’m pretty sure the word existed before the TV show.
MomSense
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Ha!
O. Felix Culpa
@Kay:
His white maleness is showing. :)
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: Please to clarify? In case I was unclear, I was referring to the racist root of the trumped-up tan suit scandal, which does seem almost quaint these days.
Kirk Spencer
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Isn’t keeping your yap shut while idiots hammer standard fare for attorneys?
eclare
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Fingers and toes crossed for you!
germy
via NYMag
Please no.
Suzanne
@O. Felix Culpa:
I’m not sure Springer was a cause, I think more of a symptom.
I also don’t understand why anyone would see trash behavior as aspirational, but I observe that it’s a truth. I mean, I think those of us who are civilized seriously underestimated the potency of this for a lot of people in 2016. Everything that we thought would be disqualifying in fact lifted Trump further in the eyes of the trash cohort, because that’s how they wish they could behave.
Betty Cracker
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Sounds like you are making inroads — good for you! As for the dinner and right-wing nutbags, maybe you’re already aware of this technique since, like me, you have wingnut relatives and have raised teenagers: I find it helpful to silently recite a memorized poem (Blake’s “The Tyger” is my go-to) or think about a specific, calming thing to distract myself when I know getting angry would be counterproductive…
eclare
@germy: So Kamala just gets tossed aside if Joe doesn’t run?
Baud
@O. Felix Culpa:
I misread. I thought you said the word “scandal” has a racist root.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Ken:
Oh, it’s true. Ex-hub was a legit CIA guy and records his convos with her, has her under frequent surveillance, plus, she actually texted him some of it. He pushed her buttons in every conversation and she obliged.
I actually told the GOP guy not to judge her by that. Told him I’ve been around this for three decades and that horrible fights where inexcusable and common in this arena are common and part of human nature, and that the real differences in the candidates are rooted in the laziness, mental sloth and on-bench behavior of the incumbent, the inexperience at any aspect of family law by the other challenger, the steepness of the learning curve and my ability to step in and do the job from day 1 while making immediate improvements.
Baud
@eclare:
I’m not fan of the Bernie people, but if Biden doesn’t run, Harris will have to compete in an open primary.
topclimber
@MazeDancer: Stop the Galactic Steal–Federation 2280!
SuzieC
@Ohio Mom: Another Ohioan here. My husband loves to yell at Gibbons’ ads on TV. He calls him slab-face and yells “you fat fuck.” Personally I find it hilarious that he is taking out Mandel.
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: Got it. :)
MomSense
@Kirk Spencer:
Its the facial expressions that give you away even when you manage to stay silent.
evodevo
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: OMG..Massie? Good luck not smacking him…he represents the district wherein we have our small business, and we HATE him. He’s from Lewis Co. and is a hyper smart MIT grad with extreme libertarian Xtian right winger tendencies, the last thing you would expect from a county that is one of the poorest, dumbest and least developed in the state. His tenure hasn’t improved that one bit as far as I can tell…but MAGAts just love his confrontational schtick, and his district reliably votes Repub, so he’s probably got tenure for life.
germy
@eclare:
That seems to be the plan. I don’t trust them. Weaver, especially.
O. Felix Culpa
@Suzanne:
Agreed. I underestimated it too, even though I grew up among people who are now part of this cohort. Some of them were always nasty even as kids, but not all of them. I fled rural ‘Murka at the first opportunity, so I don’t know what happened to make them so hateful.
Kay
@Baud:
The Left have their own problems, too. They’re splitting over Ukraine. They’re going to have a lot of trouble navigating that within their own ranks. I noticed it even with the withdrawal from Afghanistan. They don’t know how to operate in a foreign policy frame outside the Iraq invasion.
MomSense
@eclare:
That’s a good one. I’m going to add that to my toolkit.
O. Felix Culpa
@MomSense: Heh. My face gives me away in the presence of teh stupid. Blogs are a much safer environment for that reason. ;)
Benw
@MomSense: The Scott plan recently popped up in my fairly normie FB feed, with an explanation of how radical and destructive it would be, so some people are noticing, I hope!
Baud
@Kay:
The Left is strongest (and sometimes correct) when it’s being oppositional. It always has had more difficulty coming together to support a positive agenda.
Kathleen
Deleted
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I’m not wild about going into the 2024 race with an 82-year-old nominee, but I think that’s our best-case scenario because you’re right — if Biden doesn’t run, we’ll have an open primary. And that could easily turn into a shit-show that ends with lots of hard feelings. Maybe I’m too pessimistic, and an open primary would be energizing and end with unity. That’s possible, but it doesn’t sound likely to me.
O. Felix Culpa
@Betty Cracker: I think Biden will run again if his health holds. I’m a little worried about him, though. He seemed spry for his age during the campaign, but have you noticed how stiffly he walks these days? The awful strain of the job seems to be taking its toll.
eclare
@Betty Cracker: Agree with your assessment. Unfortunately.
Kalakal
@mrmoshpotato: Here’s a preview of the next debate
https://youtu.be/T8XeDvKqI4E
eclare
@O. Felix Culpa: I read somewhere there was a specific reason for the stiffness, not just old age. Can’t remember what.
topclimber
@Betty Cracker: A lot depends on whether Trump blesses us by being the nominee again.
Kathleen
@mrmoshpotato: Especially since the new gun law in Ohio is essentially there is no gun law in Ohio. Sometimes I wish I could put a paper bag over my pixels. So embarrassing to be a buckeye.
Kay
@Baud:
I never went there completely not because they’re not positive but because they’re really rigid. There’s a self conscious “coolness” to it that I truly enjoy violating, more so because I’m aware that I’m doing it.
IMO they’re naive too, with all their supposed sophistication. Just in my time politically active I have watched them over and over believe they can form some kind of alliance with libertarians and it never works and it never will work. Be a socialist but be a godammned happy and confident one. Don’t accept scolding from weasel Glenn Greenwald, for God’s sake. Be more discerning.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I don’t know if it’ll be Harris in an open primary, but I doubt it’ll be Khanna or someone else his faction approves of. The nominee will once again be someone from the center of the party (i.e., not a centrist like Manchin or even a Tim Kaine) and I think there’s a good chance that people will be upset that they didn’t get their “turn.”
But who knows? This is why I don’t do predictions.
Baud
@Kay:
They, of course, are free to do what they think is best. There was a time when I thought the left flank had promise, but these days I mostly find them uninteresting. The left is always strongest when they talk about social and economic justice, but even there, it’s easier to point out the problems than to develop and implement solutions, especially in our political environment.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@evodevo:
If you think about it, that district is obscenely drawn. Goes from the Jefferson County (Louisville) line with some precincts inside to the Snyder) for over 200 miles to the Boyd County (Ashland) line and the Big Sandy separating KY and WVA. I have even less in common with the hardscrabble peeps in Northeast KY than I do with suburban Cincy nutbags.
The redrawing gives those eastern Jefferson County precincts to KY02 (which is truly stupid, because that runs nearly to Evansville) picks up some of Spencer (and I think) Bullitt Counties.
The GOP brain trust in Frankfort would really love to split Louisville up like Austin so they could have a 6-0 GOP delegation, but it would district too many of their incumbents out of a job. Plus, it would mean that probably 5 of 6 districts would run from the Ohio River to the TN line.
Kathleen
@MomSense: Heather Cox Richardson covered the story in her Substack this morning and mentioned that Dana Milbank had written a column about it. I have little hope that there will be any decent coverage of the Rethugs’ Guide Book to Gilead.
Suzanne
@Kay: I read “A Foreign Policy for the Left” by Michael Walzer, and it really informed and improved my thinking around this topic.
Kathleen
@O. Felix Culpa: Or Hunter Biden’s laptop.
Kathleen
@germy: Thiel donated to Khanna when he first ran for Congress.
MomSense
@Kathleen:
Yeah I saw that. The professional left podcast discussed it as well. I’m waiting to see if it is mentioned on Meet The Republican Faces This Week on Sunday Morning.
Kathleen
@Baud: From what I read it looks like they’re making the “need to get rid of corporatist Democrats and replace with progressives” move.
Suzanne
@O. Felix Culpa:
I think there’s been an erosion of dignity by a thousand cuts. Opioids being one big one.
Kathleen
@MomSense: Bwa ha ha ha ha!
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I think Harris would be a strong frontrunner out of the gate, and I agree someone like Khanna would fizzle quickly. I’m kind of glad he’s emerging as the Bernie-anointed person because the sooner “the Left” stops being indelibly affiliated with Sanders, the better off progressivism as a political faction in the Democratic Party will be, IMO.
As for Harris in an open primary, as VP and frontrunner, she’d probably attract the best campaign operatives and most well-heeled donors, so there’s every reason to believe she’d be a much more effective candidate in 2024 than she was in 2020. Absent Biden running again, our best-case scenario is probably Harris quickly winning an open primary and uniting the party.
But as you said, predictions are a mug’s game! ;-)
Baud
@Kathleen:
That is what they believe in. Which is fine, if they can actually win general elections. For me, there’s a big mismatch between rhetoric and results.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I worry about the Hillary-ing her by the media and the old “she’s a cop” slur from the left. That’s more about electability than anything she has done, but we now have a better understanding of what our adversaries are capable of.
Geminid
@Baud: The Democratic Socialists of America are only one part of the “Left,” but they seem to be undergoing a lot of internal stress. They are a membership party with a lot of separate caucuses, some of which try to pull it in different directions. I think they’ve always been fractious, but last night I checked out some of the debate and it looks like things are heating up. Some of the issues are longstanding but the war in Ukraine is a factor too. There also may be a generational element in the conflict.
debbie
@Shalimar:
Timken screwed up the last election. She bankrolled more than 40 local school board races, and the overwhelmingly majority of them failed. Word was that TFG blamed her for that, and we know he may forget his pants, but he never forgets a grudge.
debbie
@Geminid:
It’s so very dispiriting to support Democrats in Ohio. I live in a very blue county, so I have at least a tiny sense of joy.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I hear you, but the “cop” thing might actually work to her advantage opposite whichever hard-right hairball the GOP horks up. I agree the media coverage is a concern. It’s been pretty awful on Harris for the past couple of years.
debbie
@MomSense:
You’re right it needs to be covered more. I’ve heard most of the NPR coverage, and Scott’s already become defensive about it.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I guess Val Demmings might give us a sense of how that would play out, since she was an actual cop.
Geminid
@Geminid: The DSA has members nationwide, and they have actually made an impact in Democratic primaries in New York City and it’s suburbs.
In central Virginia, all I’ve seen of the DSA is their events inspecting cars and replacing brake light bulbs etc., so as to curtail traffic stops by hostile police.
evodevo
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Yeah, they really screwed the pooch with that one – Northern KY used to be in the same district as here in Scott Co. (near Lexington) and was represented by a Dem who retired (curse him – it only opened up the district to Repub ratfucking). In ’04 the Dems ran Nick Clooney against Geoff Davis, and Davis won, moving what had been a good Dem district to Repub and there it has stayed. Northern KY changed demographically in the aughts, and has a comfortable Repub lead ever since. Nick was a local celeb, and a good guy, but not against the burgeoning tea party mentality that was taking over the electorate. And it only got worse after Geoff resigned in 2012 citing “family medical issues” (don’t know what they were) even though he was set to retire, and we got Massie as a result. Geoff turned out to be a NeverTrumper, so he wouldn’t have lasted anyway lol.
Baud
@Geminid:
There are Dem incumbents in safe districts who aren’t all that great. Definitely an opportunity there for gatecrashers.
Geminid
@evodevo: A couple of Virginia’s Republican congressman also retired early, before the 2016 election. Scott Rigel in the coastal 2nd District was in his 50s, while Robert Hurt representing the 5th in central Virginia, was in his 40s. I think they looked at Eric Cantor’s primary loss in 2014 and decided they weren’t going to stick around and eat Tea Party shit. Both men had prosperous businesses to fall back on.
debbie
@Kathleen:
Then Democrats need to “Hunter Biden laptop” it in their campaign speeches.
Kay
@Suzanne:
On Ukrainefor rank and file Lefties it seemed easy to me. They oppose invasions. They opposed the Iraq invasion when a greater power invaded that country and they now oppose Russia invading Ukraine. Instead they stammered and stuttered and hdeged and went to NATO and “chemical weapons labs” and Nazis in Ukraine.
I am fucking amazed they ended up arguing the pro invasion side that mirrors their position re:the Iraq War and essentially erased 40 million Ukranians to get there. It’s appallingly bad.
I want them to say Ukraine has a right to self determination. I want them to stop shouting “look over there!” to avoid addressing that. Stop erasing them. Stop replacing them with The United States.
If Ukraine surrenders they will have their elected government replaced by an unelected one and they will be under the boot of Russia. How dare they demand 40 million people accept that fucking sentence without a fight?
Kathleen
@Baud: I don’t believe they’re operating as good faith opposition. I believe they want to destroy Democratic Party because they’re said that but since deleted their tweets. They are up to no good at all.
Kathleen
@debbie: Same here. Our county Dem org is awesome.
Kay
@Suzanne:
Ukraine asks for and gets help from other countries including the US and the other countries and the US also have interests but right now they align with Ukraine? Good! They better get help. If they don’t Russia will grind them into dust.
BRyan
@Kay: I was eager to read the comments to that article because I was sure there must be an incredible amount of pushback on what a fluff piece it was. But there were no comments. I’m not a regular WaPo reader so I don’t know; is that standard, no provision for reader comments?
O. Felix Culpa
@Kathleen:
Agreed. In my experience in local/statewide Democratic organizing, the dirtbag left wants to destroy the Democratic Party. They hate us more than they hate Republicans.
Correction: I have never seen any sign that they hate Republicans. They ONLY attack Dems. Perhaps because they share similar goals with the Rs.
AM in NC
Nah, Dude. Pussies are strong, flexible and resilient. These guys are dicks.
Geminid
@Baud: Overall, I don’t think there is a lot of “dead wood” now among Democratic Representatives. Some are old, like New York City Carolyn Maloney (who has a DSA-backed challenger). Maloney is effective, though. She was intrumental in pushing through the Corporate Transparency Act in the 2020 lame-duck session. A writer for Forbes Magazine called the CTA the most significant corporate reform legislation in decades.
Maloney will probably win her primary, if only because she has multiple opponents. Absent ranked choice voting or a runoff, it’s tough to beat an incumbent unless a challenger can clear the field. And that’s hard these days with so many people who want to run for office.
Matt
@Kay:
Haven’t read the piece, but I don’t need to to know the guy’s a fascist bully who lies to make himself look better – it’s literally the standard conservative MO nowadays.
Baud
@Geminid: Right. I think most of the time they miss their targets.
Baud
@Kathleen:
@O. Felix Culpa:
Who is they? Ro Khanna. DSA? There are definitely bad faith actors out there, but it’s often not easy to distinguish them from people who are simply on the left (oftentimes that’s because the simply on the left people don’t want to pick that fight, but still….).
Another Scott
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: That’s a great insight, well expressed.
Look at all the seemingly good people who are Yankees fans, for instance. ;-)
What matters in public service (and many other places) is how people do the job. Not if/that they have human failings elsewhere.
Good luck!
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@eclare:
Bloomberg (from November 2021):
This is from his VP days, but he’s still doing very well.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kay
@BRyan:
I don’t know. I dont read or leave newspaper comments. I represent quite a few owner operators. They don’t generally switch states because it’s a pain for licensing and operating the small business, which is the truck. I wonder why he moved from PA to OH when he started this. They also (rightfully and lawfully) got lots of government support during the pandemic. I would have asked him that. The PPP and other loans and grants were difficult to get in the first crush but I helped with tens of them. They were pretty dummy proof. They simplified the forgiveness process twice too- they could not have made money for small business easier to get. My people were really grateful. Besides the sympathetic framing it just seems “thin” to me. I don’t know any owner operators who have started their own trucking lobbying group, for example, and this guy did, along with another leader of the “movement”.
Geminid
@Baud: Two of the usual suspects are Justice Democrats and Brand New Congress, which are very closely related. The commenter may have been talking about them. The organizations were formed by alumni of the 2016 Sanders campaign.
In late 2018, the head of Justice Democrats, Walid Shaheed, made some notorious tweets about how they intended a “hostile takeover” of the Democratic party. He later deleted them, but not before the hawk-like “@Justice Dem Watch” took screenshots.
You can thank (or cuss) Justice Democrats for bringing me to this forum. I was grudge-researching them and came upon an Adam Silverman post about Shaheed in the oddly named blog “Balloon Juice.”
Another Scott
Meanwhile, … Who wants to be an “assistant adjunct” in the Chemistry department at UCLA?? PhD required.
No salary. Literally.
(via Popehat)
Grr…,
Scott.
Dopey-o
Hating is what they do. They get up in the morning and drink their coffee and get their hate on.
It is the only emotion they feel, it is their identity. They loved Rush, and they love Trump, because they get their hate stoked.
Hate is what they are, it is all they are. Mussolini preached the joy of smashing the bones of liberals, revelled in the violence. Trump takes his followers right up to that red line, and someday soon, he is going to cross it.
An indictment by Garland’s DOJ will probably be the trigger.
Bmaccnm
@narya: Like “cocksucker.” Wait. I thought you liked that.
Steeplejack
@MazeDancer:
Hey, they just had an incisive, hard-hitting article ranking Entenmann’s mediocre products.
SamIAm
@germy:
Why?
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud:
My originating comment specified the “dirtbag left” that I had direct experience with in local organizing. We’ve had these discussions on BJ many times before, so the term shouldn’t be unfamiliar. Some of these folks identify as Justice Democrats, some are in the local DSA and drove out the people who just want decent “healthcare for all” with nasty, hardball tactics. They are awful, untrustworthy people who undermine the Democratic Party at the local and state level at every turn. We lost some fine organizers due to their filthy, unwarranted lies and attacks. This is as much specificity as I can provide without naming names, which I won’t do.