Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

He really is that stupid.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

Chutkan laughs. Lauro sits back down.

I desperately hope that, yet again, I am wrong.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

Everybody saw this coming.

Republicans in disarray!

Let there be snark.

It’s not hopeless, and we’re not helpless.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

It could be worse. Vance could have said “post-menopausal sows.” Waiting for that audiotape to surface.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

So many bastards, so little time.

Donald Trump, welcome to your everything, everywhere, all at once.

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

Days Since JD Vance Insulted Women Across America: Zero

“Why isn’t this Snickers bar only a nickel?”

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

There is one struggling party in US right now, and it’s not the Democrats.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / President Zelenskyy To Address the UN Security Council (10 am Eastern)

Reader Interactions

105Comments

  3. 3.

    sab

    God I am glad to be American. Not because we are exceptional, because we are not. But because geography has protected us from so much, our stupid decisions and others’ ill will.

  4. 4.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Raoul Paste: I know, the whole is a fucking pointless waste of human life and potential. All because of some crazy ass BS Putin talked himself into.

  6. 6.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @sab: I think it’s a bit more than that. It’s the US and other Western Countries get it’s Mass Society that counts and don’t go wanting to raise their flags everywhere. When have you ever heard the wingnuts demand we invade and annex Mexico? Instead the fear is always migrants will destabilize the US.

  10. 10.

    Bex

    Yea, though I walk through the Gey Tzalmavet (Valley of the Shadow of Death), I will fear no rah (evil) for Thou art with me; Thy shevet (rod) and Thy staff they comfort me.

  11. 11.

    Patricia Kayden

    I know the West doesn’t want to directly fight with Russia but when is enough enough? How many deaths in Ukraine are enough? What are we waiting for to do more? Ukraine shouldn’t have to fight alone.

  14. 14.

    WaterGirl

    @Patricia Kayden: @zhena gogolia: I agree with both of you.

    We absolutely have provided a phenomenal amount of of support.

    But I agree with Patricia:  Ukraine shouldn’t have to fight alone.  In very real terms for Ukraine, what we are doing is not enough.  Their people are being slaughtered.

    I don’t know what the answer is, but every day I know that we have to do more.  I just don’t know how we do it.

  15. 15.

    zhena gogolia

    Oh, I’m commenting on the wrong thread. The russki did the same shit the Repubs do.

  16. 16.

    WaterGirl

    I got a call from a client just as this started, I guess, so I didn’t realize it had started.  Is anybody watching?

    This is maddening.  Total gaslighting from Russia.  Talking about procedures and presenting themselves as the victims.

  20. 20.

    Spanky

    @WaterGirl: This looks like a job for …

    ERIC PRINCE!!

    Ha! No. Please no. But committing US troops would give Putin license (in his mind) to escalate to a point we just won’t go. It has always been his policy to escalate one step beyond where we will go.

  22. 22.

    Spanky

    Interesting timing on revealing this:

    US tested hypersonic missile in mid-March but kept it quiet to avoid escalating tensions with Russia

  23. 23.

    CaseyL

    @WaterGirl:

    This is maddening. Total gaslighting from Russia. Talking about procedures and presenting themselves as the victims.

     

    I’ve noticed, the higher the level of bullshit, the greater the emotional load of the words used to convey it. The word “outrageous” gets quite a workout.

  26. 26.

    Sparkedcat

    My hope is that President Zelensky tells UNSC and the world that Russian war crimes are being committed at this very moment. Bucha is the tip of the iceberg. There are men, women and children experiencing unspeakable horrors in Mariopol as you read this. The Russian Federation is a criminal organization that must be destroyed.

  30. 30.

    MisterDancer

    @Patricia Kayden: There are no great answers to situations like this. People like Putin count on that, in fact.

    I confess, even as removed from this situation as I am as an American with no direct ties to the region, it’s brutally hard to have a good and productive discussion on this topic. I skimmed the thread where G&T said he’s out from commenting on this War, and I can’t blame him. I know I, personally, can bear witness, but don’t feel much of a need to pit my pitiful knowledge against this comment section.

    I think people feel really uncomfortable with being helpless to stop this slaughter, for reasons. And I don’t have a great way to address that in a solid moral framework, right now.

    I wish I did.

  31. 31.

    eversor

    Call me jaded but I’m former military and NGO and contractor and the fact that Spetsnaz (I knew members of the GRU faction) are doing so poorly smells off.   Either it’s a bait and switch, or there are massive problems in the Russian military we don’t know off.   I’m not sure which is worse.   If this is a classic bait and switch Ukraine is fucked, if not, we obviously don’t know what we thought we knew which is a massive issue.

    There’s being a good soldier and then being good at soldiering.   The two are not the same thing.  Spetsnaz always struck me at being good at both of them, overly good at them.  So if they are this fucked up and beyond gone something is highly off.   I don’t doubt they are capable of “war crimes” that’s childs play, but to keep drawing up losses like this is off.

    I was Navy intel/EW (Go Navy!) and deployed with the Marines as the start of my career so I’m not talking out my ass.   This alll seems, off……

  33. 33.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @eversor: Wonder if part of it is Ukraine having access to the sort of military intelligence most military planners would only see in their pipe dreams or in a Tom Clancy novel?

  36. 36.

    zhena gogolia

    I’m finding this really hard to listen to, since I half-understand him so I can’t concentrate on the interpreter, who has the flat tone of an AI voice.

  38. 38.

    CaseyL

    Sounds like Zelenskyy is ripping the UN a new one, asking what is the purpose of the organization if it can’t ensure peace, can’t penalize nations who break international law, can’t guarantee humanitarian corridors, and allows the perpetrators of war and atrocities to keep their seats on the Security Council.

  39. 39.

    Jerzy Russian

    @Spanky:

     

    US tested hypersonic missile in mid-March but kept it
    quiet to avoid escalating tensions with Russia

    hmmm….

  40. 40.

    Tenar Arha

    @eversor: From Adam’s daily updates I learned that Russia actually institutionalized brutalizing its regular conscripts (putting them at the mercy of Russian criminal gangs). Last night’s update tells me that this brutality has spread even to the “professionals.”

    I’m referring to the following comment from a much longer interview excerpt from yesterday. This  tells me that something is very wrong in the Russian military if they have commanders acting like this.

    Last year, there was a horrible story reported by the Russian media that in a spetsnaz brigade in Siberia, a commander had raped his soldiers as a form of punishment. That is absolutely unprecedented, because spetsnaz forces tend not only to be Russia’s most professional soldiers, but they don’t have hierarchical problems, because they fight in small groups where you need to trust everyone who’s with you.

  41. 41.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @eversor:

    If this is a classic bait and switch Ukraine is fucked

    I can’t see any realistic scenario where this is a bait and switch.  It costs Putin hugely for no gain.  The failure has been from day one.

    if not, we obviously don’t know what we thought we knew which is a massive issue.

    I wonder who ‘we’ is here, though.  The level of intel Biden has flaunted is tremendous, even shocking.  It is a very realistic scenario that Biden, and perhaps Zelenskyy or some other international governmental figures knew that the Russian army was disintegrating.  That is exactly the kind of information they would not want to release to the public, especially because they might be wrong.  It might be very difficult information to have found out, however, because the Russian government didn’t know.  Not telling the boss how bad things are starts at ground level and happens every link up the chain.  Even more so when at every link the people who would report the problems caused some of them by lining their pockets.

  42. 42.

    Soprano2

    I read that a witness from Bucha said the first Russian soldiers there were mostly young and didn’t seem to know that much what they were doing, that they didn’t know they were going to war, etc. They didn’t commit the atrocities – the witness said these soldiers were replaced with others from Chechnya, and that’s when the butchery and war crimes began to happen.

  44. 44.

    Soprano2

    @Frankensteinbeck: With the amount of corruption that’s been reported in Russia it wouldn’t surprise me to find out the military has been hollowed out but the upper reaches of the government didn’t know it.

  45. 45.

    Doug R

    @Frankensteinbeck: Snowden’s “spontaneous” “revelations” were nicely timed to sandbag intel collection for the 2014 first invasion of Ukraine.

    I suspect that the intel community scrambled to get alternate sources of intel and probably hid some and also learned to lean on Five Eyes partners to compartmentalize intel from the Russian asset in the White House.

    Now that a patriot is in the White House, the intel community can “cut loose”.

  46. 46.

    WaterGirl

    @CaseyL: Exactly.  He’s saying that if the UN can’t do anything, then they should dissolve themselves because if they can’t do anything, the UN cannot serve its purpose, and therefore has no reason to exist.  And if they don’t want to admit that they are not serving their purpose, then they need to remove Russia.

  48. 48.

    CaseyL

    @WaterGirl: IMO, the agencies of the UN do more good work than the Assembly itself (such as UNESCO and WHO).  The main Assembly, the Security Council, and the Human Rights Council are feckless, toothless organizations.   Have been for quite a long time.

  49. 49.

    WaterGirl

    @Benw:

    that Russia is still on the security council and gets to speak is fucking BS.

    I absolutely agree.  And if the UN Security Council can’t find a way around whatever rules are holding them back, then they need to throw out some of the rules, or if they can’t do that, President Zelenskyy is right – they should dissolve themselves.

  50. 50.

    eversor

    @Steeplejack:

    I’m in Washington DC now so I can get shit faced drunk with one of them at the drop of the hat.   Still seems off.   They either have major issues or something is far more fucked up.   I go to marivvana cause I dated a Kyrgyz that their website is under cloudflare block is highly amusing https://www.marivanna.ru/en/ which brings me to another thing.

    We can’t take this out on the locals, they have no control over it.  This has freedom fries nonsense all over it.   As I said my ex is Kyrgz and she got it one way for looking Chinese over COVID and another for frequenting Russian places now.   Honestly fuck it, I should take her out for a dinner.

  52. 52.

    WaterGirl

    @CaseyL:

    The main Assembly, the Security Council, and the Human Rights Council are feckless, toothless organizations.   Have been for quite a long time.

    I agree, and I thought it was really powerful that Zelenskyy pointed out that they should have taken action previously in X, Y and Z conflicts.  He really called them out for being toothless and challenged them to either put up or dissolve the so-called Security Council.

  54. 54.

    eversor

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    The Russian Army should have just said fuck the press and leveled and killed every last soul there.   They’d get the same blow back and barrel bombs and city leveling is how they work.  That’s how they work, that they did not speaks to a massive intel failure.

  56. 56.

    gvg

    One of the reports or links I read here said that in 2014 the Russians performed very well compared to Ukraine and the Ukrainians did not do well. I think the person in the link(twitter) was puzzled by that. I have been thinking about that since and I think that was just after Ukraine voted out the Russian puppet guy partly for corruption I think. So Russia invaded and took part of Ukraine and…maybe Ukraine reacted by trying to improve their military and what we would call their National Guard? They also did try to get their own corruption under control. Russia continued it’s path of corruption and skimming some of everything to make the rich richer and blow there own smoke for 8 more years…I speculate that is at least part of the difference.
    The longer the Russians run their country into the ground, the worse it gets. That is how the USSR fell. It is hard for us to judge and we want it to be true, so we have to be careful believing it, but it has to be effecting them some.

  57. 57.

    eversor

    @WaterGirl:

     

    We can’t kick them off the UN without breaking the UN.   Nobody want’s to admit this about the UN.  The UN means we tolerate this kind of crap, not having it means worse.

  58. 58.

    gvg

    @WaterGirl: ​
      The UN is toothless. It wasn’t actually ever designed to have any military might. Nobody wanted to give up their own sovereignty. I wouldn’t trust them to boss the US around. Why would any country. Its a debating society with some economic sanctions. Sometimes they do peacekeeping after 2 sides want to stop. The UN is slightly better than the League of Nations.
    Everyone projects what they want it to be, but all it is, is a giant multi embassy where countries can talk to each other.
    Zelensky and Ukraine want help, but the UN is only a forum to be heard, not a big protector.

  59. 59.

    Hoodie

    @eversor:  Possible that the more elite units like Spetznaz basically went on strike when they realized the initial mission was a clusterfuck and/or they realized they were sent there on false premises? The higher ups probably wouldn’t be able to shit about a work stoppage because they need those units if they end up engaging NATO, so they pulled them back and replaced them with a pieced together group of Chechens, Wagner types and conscripts and changed tactics to mass bombardment of civilian areas.

  60. 60.

    Benw

    @eversor:

    not having it means worse

    I agree with this, even North Korea is in the UN. I’m not an expert, but I’d like to see Russia removed from the security council, no more favored status.

  61. 61.

    WaterGirl

    I am not impressed with our US UN representative who spoke after Zelensky.  All I am hearing is several minutes of blah blah blah.  I know our remarks were prepared before Zelensky spoke, but these remarks feel like pablum after his.

    edit at 3:30

    I am just getting back to the video now and I have to take back what I said about our UN ambassador. Her long introduction was lackluster, but damn, she brought it for Ukraine after that. Proud that she and we took that stand.

  64. 64.

    debbie

    @eversor:

    The UN is broken. It was set up to prevent another Nazi Germany. Clearly, that’s failed. At this point, breaking the charter takes a distant second place to saving lives and preventing genocide.

  65. 65.

    sdhays

    @Hoodie: This actually is at least a big concern if not an active problem. Unlike conscripts, professional soldiers apparently can just quit. If they find out they’re going to Ukraine, they can just say “nope” and find another job. Now, it means losing their pension and other benefits, but they’ll be alive.

    That’s at least part of the reason so many soldiers who weren’t “supposed” be part of an invasion are being sent to the front lines.

  66. 66.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @eversor: Apparently Ukraine Spentzas are better than Russian Speentaz and ganked the Russian Spentzas early in the war. 

    Also, what kind of Spentzas are we talking about, every cool Ministry has their own Spentzas.  This came up in the on line role play game I was running were one of my Nazi curious players just had to be a Spentzas and I had endless fun having NPCs go on about the Telephone Company and Postal Service Spetsnaz.  “My phone line was dead, so I put a note in the specified dead drop and by the time I got home there was a camouflaged van pulling out of my driveway full of armed masked soldiers and my phone was working again!” fun times.

  67. 67.

    Amir Khalid

    @Benw:

    In my ideal world, the UN would be more powerful than any one nation. But it was set up by the nations that had just won WWII, and of course none of them was willing to give away any of its newly-gained geopolitical power. So the UN, and in particular the UN Security Council, has no way to deal with a bad actor when it is a superpower.

  68. 68.

    West of the Rockies

    I hope that Putin is in existential misery.  I don’t see how he can enjoy expensive clothing, mansions, cars, etc. anymore.   He is in constant fear of being offed.  He is aging rapidly and poorly, is pudgy, drab, and terrified (and knows his alleged virility is now all artifice).

    I hope a fitting end awaits this dreary little goblin.

  69. 69.

    Kelly

    @gvg: The UN is slightly better than the League of Nations.
    Everyone projects what they want it to be, but all it is, is a giant multi embassy where countries can talk to each other.

    Yep. I had a political science professor that was a member of the team the US State Department sent to the UN Conference on International Organizations in San Francisco, April 1945. One of those nameless guys standing in the back. He was very clear about it’s limitations, the constraints it was formed under and the value of everyone talking. Talking isn’t everything but it’s not nothing.

  70. 70.

    eversor

    @Hoodie:

    From my knowing and things I can’t get into Spetsnaz does a lot of work.  GRU is a grade above the rest, but they are all considered great soldiers.

    @Benw:

    I don’t think their should be a security council.   Idealy there should be a council based on norms and rules.

    @debbie:

    agree

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I’m mostly familiar with the GRU type and the are good soldiers and good at soldiering.

    @West of the Rockies:

    Russian autocrats tend to die badly.

  71. 71.

    trollhattan

    @gvg: 2014 Ukraine was a kleptocracy led by a Kremlin stooge, so little need for them to have a strong, independent military. I suppose Belarus fits that description, today.

    Certainly agree that in the eight years since, they’ve taken defending themselves very seriously, especially after losing Crimea and having a low-grade permanent war in their far east. Russian hubris had them thinking it’s still 2014. Oopsie.

  73. 73.

    Omnes Omnibus

    I think that people are expecting more from the UN than it is set up to do.  The Security Council and the GA are set up to be talking shops and have little power to actually affect events.  This isn’t necessarily a bad thing.  Having such fora is a good thing, and, in time, it could evolve into more.  In the meantime, as a number of people have said, the various UN agencies do a shitload of good work across the globe.

    TL, DR:  Don’t expect the UN to do  things it wasn’t designed to do.

  75. 75.

    Medicine Man

    Oh look, the Russian representative is moving his lips and is lying, but I repeat myself.

  76. 76.

    West of the Rockies

    @Doug R:

    Is that genuine speculation in regards to Putin, thyroid cancer?  Be cool if he got a one-off case of smallpox to go with it.

  78. 78.

    Ksmiami

    @MisterDancer: tbh I think I’ve reached a point where Tom Nichols’ argument is dead wrong. I think we as the US are going to have to escalate this and start threatening to attack key RF military installations unless and until a formal ceasefire/cessation is on the table. Putin needs a way to back pedal without looking weak. Surrender to Ukraine would be too humiliating but dealing with the US is a different animal altogether.

  80. 80.

    JMG

    We must remember that the Western countries are democracies and can go no further to support Ukraine than their publics are willing. So far, every poll shows a large majority of Americans oppose direct military action against Russia. It’s easy to rag on Germany for not doing more, but considering our own election is projected to be a GOP sweep because the price of gas went up a buck a gallon, consider the reaction to no houses having heat.

  81. 81.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @JMG: I am going take issue with part of your comment.  It is only April and there the evidence does not, in fact show a GOP sweep.  There polls out yesterday showing the Dems have a likelihood of picking up Senate seats.  Since it’s only April, I take those with a huge grain of salt just like I take the pundits who predict doom.

  82. 82.

    ian

    @Ksmiami:

    Putin needs a way to back pedal without looking weak. Surrender to Ukraine would be too humiliating but dealing with the US is a different animal altogether.

    The word you are looking for there is escalation, not back-pedal.  Do you really, honest and true, believe threating to blow up a Russian installation would get them to stop?  Furthermore, what happens when they don’t back down from our threats?  Then we either A) look foolish or B) have to follow through.  A) makes the situation worse for Ukraine and B) leads to the chain of events that leads to nuclear exchange.

  86. 86.

    TonyG

    @Frankensteinbeck: Telling the boss what he wants to hear.  There’s a great scene in the Vietnam War novel Matterhorn in which two NVA soldiers possibly wounded becomes more than 100 NVA confirmed killed in action by the time the report is communicated, and inflated, up the chain of command from platoon leader to division commander.

  87. 87.

    gene108

    @gvg:

    After Maidan, NATO countries started training the Ukrainian military and advising on how a professional military operates.

    I think that’s part of the reason Ukraine is performing so well.

  88. 88.

    trollhattan

    @TonyG:

    Vietnam was our first television war. As a kid I’d watch Cronkite, Huntley-Brinkley, whoever was the ABC guy usually lead with the war, and part of the report would be the KIA counts, which always had a larger number attached to the NVA-Viet Cong tally than the American side. That outcome was basically baked in by the Pentagon.

    Later of course, the DoD got out front by shepherding and controlling field reporters, none of that independent journalism crap on their watch.

  89. 89.

    catfishncod

    @Amir Khalid: It’s more than just that….

    When first set up, the Security Council was as you said: the  victorious Great Powers as of 1945. (At that time, “United Nations” was the official name of the Allies; the Treaty of San Francisco established the “UNO”, the UN Organization. As the war receded the distinction became moot.)

    The British did not want the veto of the permanent members to apply if a belligerent tried to confound the UNSC with the veto. The Russians insisted on the ability to veto matters concerning themselves. The compromise made then was that the veto could block actions — but not procedures. Practical upshot: a permanent member can prevent the UNSC from acting against them, but it can’t stop the UNSC from talking about why it should have acted.

    Russia made a major blunder in 1950 when it was boycotting UN proceedings over the issue of China’s seat (still held by the ROC despite the Communist victory on the mainland). When the North Korean attack on the South came before the UNSC, the Russians weren’t there to veto the resolution. As a direct result, the Korean War was an official UN enforcement action — and in fact UN Command is still the umbrella organization legally in charge of the Korean DMZ security structure.

    The whole point of the veto that the Russians insisted on was to prevent that sort of scenario: the UN used as a means for one Great Power to augment itself by rallying the rest of the world against another. And the US gave way, because they feared the same game in reverse.

    Over time, the WWII justification for the permanent seats wore thin, to be replaced by another: possession of nuclear weapons. For a time, the only official nuclear powers were the five permanent members (once the PRC took over China’s seat).

    But now there are several nuclear powers that are not permanent members, so the permanent-member structure — and especially the veto power attached to it — are again on thin ice. Is the veto simply the political expression of the idea that Russia’s nukes give it the power to break all laws of war? That is Zelenskyy’s challenge to the UN.

  91. 91.

    Ruckus

    @trollhattan:

    I can imagine that it is tough to be way up on the chart of richest people in Russia without being involved in world wide business.

    Country borders don’t stop goods and money flowing all that well, unless one of the countries is currently doing something so insane as what Russia is currently doing. And that may be down to it’s structure and the one person at the top of that structure. Sure many if not most of the inhabitants of Russia do not benefit from all that money but then even here, that kind of money doesn’t benefit all that many people, which is why many of the few people it does benefit not only want it to continue but want it to increase all the while they want the cost of living here to go down for them. We have a term for this. It’s called “greedy fucks.”

  92. 92.

    Aziz, light!

    @West of the Rockies: More likely is that most Russian people will rally around Putin just as Americans rallied around Dubya after 9/11, and that Putin will remain in power until the end of his execrable life.

  93. 93.

    Bruce K in ATH-GR

    @Aziz, light!: There’s only so long that he can manage that, I think; only so long that he can keep the lid on getting pantsed on the global stage by a Ukrainian comedian, or feeding conscripts into a meat grinder like another Afghanistan/Vietnam.

    I’m fairly certain at this point that he wants to turn this into a Russia-vs-NATO global conflict, because he can sell a Second Great Patriotic War to the Russian people for a lot longer than he can convince them to support their own Vietnam War.

  95. 95.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @debbie: That depends.  If face saving measures allow the conflict to end sooner, may they not be worth it?  What is the end goal?  Also, it’s not really our call, is it?

  97. 97.

    WaterGirl

    @VeniceRiley:

    Here for Zelenskyy telling UNSC to delete their account.

    Perfect phrasing.  I also wanted to say that I’m sorry your partner (can’t remember for sure if you are married yet) has covid.  sigh.

  98. 98.

    debbie

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Because I think it would only be a temporary solution. I don’t think there’s any way Putin won’t do this all over again if he’s given a chance. Exile him to Mars.

  99. 99.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: As do I. Frankly, I consider the “GOP sweep” shit to be propaganda put out by the right-wing and the media that support them. As a matter of principle, I refuse to spread  that line of thinking or to indulge it. I commit to working to elect more and better Dems and donating my meager resources to that cause.

  100. 100.

    Ksmiami

    @Omnes Omnibus: no – I’ve wanted to squeeze the regime ala Nichols from the start  but letting Putin take more of Ukraine and bleeding out UA is just not tenable. Putin blowing up granaries, blockading Ukraines access to the Black Sea and mining farmland has convinced me that there’s no way to allow him to gain anything from this invasion

  101. 101.

    Ksmiami

    1. @ian: I’m not saying there can’t be carrots and sticks… I’m just saying from the recent fascist Russian propaganda, the end goal for Russia is annexation and elimination of Ukraine and from my vantage point, I do not see any possibility of a negotiation between Zelenskyy and Putin.
  102. 102.

    Geminid

    @Miss Bianca: There is also some pessimism being spread by Democratic “allies” who are dissatisfied with Democratic leadership. “Democrats will be wiped out in November because they haven’t done this,” they tell us, or “Democrats will be wiped out in November unless they do that.” Some of these allies are sincere.

  103. 103.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: But personally, I like our chances in November. I don’t worry about voters so much as voter suppression and election subversion by Republicans.

  104. 104.

    Miss Bianca

    @Geminid: They may be “sincere”, but I doubt that they’re really “allies” if they think that spreading the message of “Democrats are DOOMED because they didn’t do what we want!” as gospel is going to help…well, anything.

    ETA: I agree with you on your latter points, personally. We just dodged a bullet on our county where the RWNJs in charge of our Republican Party were pressuring our county commissioners to try to get rid of the Dominion voting machines. It was a squeaker. These people are absolutely rabid about using the tools of democracy to destroy democracy. Hope we’ll be just as committed to the effort of preserving it.

  105. 105.

    ian

    @debbie:

    Believe you me, it is the least of my concerns.  I was saying we should not threaten Russia with a military move.  If we do so, and they fail to respond in the way we desire, we are left with 2 options, neither of which result in an outcome anyone should desire.

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