The U.N. General Assembly voted today to suspend Russia from the Human Rights Council. At least Russia loses its right attend the Human Rights Council meetings, though they will still get to spew lies and propaganda on the world stage at the Security Council meetings at the same time that they are savaging the people and the country of Ukraine.
from the Washington Post
The U.N. General Assembly voted Thursday to suspend Russia from the Human Rights Council amid mounting concerns that Moscow’s troops are committing grave war crimes in Ukraine.
The vote came as global outrage over the killings of civilians in the Kyiv suburb of Bucha intensified. Bodies were found strewn in the streets — and in some cases showed signs of torture — after Russian troops retreated.
Germany’s foreign intelligence service claims to have intercepted radio communications in which Russian soldiers discuss indiscriminate killings in Ukraine. In two communications, Russian troops described how they question soldiers as well as civilians, and proceed to shoot them, according to an intelligence official familiar with the findings who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the matter’s sensitivity.
News from Germany: intercepted communications with Russian soldiers discussing their war crimes
BERLIN — Germany’s foreign intelligence service claims to have intercepted radio communications in which Russian soldiers discuss carrying out indiscriminate killings in Ukraine.
In two separate communications, Russian soldiers described questioning Ukrainian soldiers as well as civilians and then shooting them, according to an intelligence official familiar with the findings who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the matter’s sensitivity.
Open thread.
UPDATE: Congratulations Ketanji Brown Jackson 
Alison Rose ???
BUH-BYE.
Bill K
This is pretty much what the United Nations was created for. If they can’t do something about this they might as well close down.
Xentik
Good Riddance! Next thing to figure out is how to boot them from the Security Council.
WaterGirl
I hope President Zelenskyy is offered the opportunity to speak to the Human Rights Council again next week – when the Russian can’t site there and subject Ukraine and the rest of the U.N. Council, and the world, to their lies.
Na-na-na-na…
I truly don’t know how they all sat there stone-faced during the gaslighting.
Medicine Man
UN votes 93 to 24 against gas-lighting murder enthusiasts.
Calouste
23 countries sided with Russia, including China.
trollhattan
@Bill K:
Yet the result wasn’t baked in, so fraught are the General Council votes, so it’s a good day even if they merely just passed a “Duh” vote.
Heard a BBC interview last night with some Donbass residents, many of whom are pro-Russian and only listen to Russian State media. A couple noted having learned Ukraine has sold Donbass to the United States and Russia had to move before the US showed up to claim our new land.
germy
Guest editorial:
I Thought This Was The Kind Of Shit America Liked
Yutsano
I could be just tea leaf reading but I wonder if something bigger is coming down the pipeline from the UN. Like the expulsion of Russia proper from the UN. I guess we gotta keep watching!
mali muso
@Calouste: Several on that list are African nations that have long standing connections with Russia from the days of the Cold War.
Mike S
I was sad to learn today that Scott Ritter now works as a propagandist for RT.
MattF
Good to see that Russian threats against nations that might have voted for expulsion didn’t work. I guess counting votes isn’t part of the Russian skill set.
WaterGirl
@Calouste: Do we have a list of countries. Thanks for nothing, whoever they are.
Chetan Murthy
@Yutsano: I saw a tweet recently, where a UA diplomat was quoted as saying something like “if they bomb, murder, rape, loot civilians, then what’s the point in talking to them? what’s the point in diplomats and diplomacy ?”
Full respect to Martin (and others) and their (well-reasoned) position that the UN isn’t meant to be more than a place to talk, but there is some logic to that position: what’s the point of talking with a party that violates the laws of war so flagrantly. And it seems clear that they’re not going to be swayed by entreaties, only by facts on the ground and true economic isolation.
Then again, if you don’t talk to them, surely you must be willing to have first cut off all economic ties, and done that worldwide. That is to say: if you’re not willing to stomach a worldwide boycott, then why are you bothering with something so ineffectual as “we won’t talk to them” ?
WaterGirl
@germy: That is possibly the only Onion article I have ever not liked.
Some of what they say is fair game and the US deserves it, but suggesting that we use chemical weapons and more – I finally quit reading – undercuts the point.
Betty
For a change Dominica voted the right way for expulsion. They often side with China and Venezuela. They may be trying to make up for a major screw up by recently agreeing to establish diplmatic relations with Syria. It was quickly rescinded and blamed on a rogue UN Ambassador. I was disappointed to see several Caribbean countries abstaining.
geg6
@Mike S:
I keep seeing people saying this, but he’s not and never was one of the good guys. And lets not get into his whole pedo background.
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: You’re not confusing this with the Security Council, are you?
Villago Delenda Est
Now, figure out a way to get them off the Security Council. They’ve demonstrated, by launching a war of aggression intended to be a genocide, that they’re unfit.
Peale
@trollhattan: Why do they think we’d even want it? I wonder. Until I realize that most places, no matter how crappy, are filled with smug people who don’t get out much and assume that where they are living is the best spot in the world. Like you can say what you want about US foreign policy, but “adding overseas territories” hasn’t been part of it since, IDK, 1898.
Old School
@WaterGirl:
You can find the vote here.
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl: Thanks for saving me the time.
Roger Moore
@Chetan Murthy:
The big point is that we’re going to need to talk at some point. Suppose, for example, that Ukraine kicks the Russians completely out of their country, including the previously occupied areas of Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk. What happens then? There will need to be some kind of cease fire and eventually a peace treaty. That can’t happen if Ukraine and any country that supports it refuse to talk to Russia at all under any circumstances. You need to leave open some line of communication.
schrodingers_cat
@WaterGirl: 58 countries abstained. China, Cuba and a few other voted with Russia. More here.
The Moar You Know
@Xentik: There is one and only one way to do that, and that is to end the UN.
Given their inability over the years to rein in any bad actors, especially WRT some of the more awful things America has done, this might not be a bad thing to do. But I would defer to people with, y’know, expertise in the field, and I am decidedly not one of them.
trollhattan
@Peale:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It was radio but I got the impression they were old enough to miss the USSR, and America as the handy enemy of all things. “America buy our homes? Nyet!”
Another potentially
goodgreat thing.Redshift
@Chetan Murthy: The sentiment of “how can we negotiate with people who have done such terrible things to our people” often comes up in the context of war and conflict, and it is entirely understandable. But it nonetheless remains the case that you cannot end a conflict without talking to such people at some point. (As Adam frequently points out, that does not mean that they are at that point now.)
Membership in the UN requires pledging not to do the kinds of things Russia has been doing, and by the rules of the body, it would be permissible to suspend or expel them. But this has never been done, presumably because it closes off avenues to work to stop them from what they are doing, and because it is unlikely that membership is a big enough reward or expulsion a big enough punishment to make a difference in their behavior that would make it worth it.
bbleh
It will be interesting to see how the MAGAt attitude evolves, as more of these horrors come to light. Will they:
(1) Double down, shout about Putin having the support of most of his own people as well as many in the Donbas, insist it’s the Ukrainians who are at fault, and back him because he’s doing what a strong leader does?
(2) Ignore the news or dismiss it as fake, avoid the issue or maybe say something butch about war is hell, and continue to back him anyway because strength and the church and blood and soil and whatnot?
(3) Try to have it both ways, say what has been done (passive voice) was bad, maybe mumble something about collateral damage, insist that he should be expected to punish any proven bad behavior by his troops, observe that other countries have done bad things, and say he has the right to protect his own security and anyway strength and the church and so on?
(4) Just let it fade away entirely, respond with blank looks, if at all, maybe say they don’t pay attention to those newspapers, and what about Hunter Biden’s laptop?
MisterForkbeard
@trollhattan: Hopefully the judge says something like “Donald Trump says he’s a billionaire. As such, $10k/day isn’t enough to compel anything and is not a punishment. As a result, I assess penalties of $1 million/day and hope this court will not be required to hold further action against him” (like jailtime for noncompliance)
A man can dream.
dexwood
And Russia responds with you can’t fire me, I quit.
mapaghimagsik
@germy: Its not funny because its true
MisterForkbeard
@bbleh: The various QAnon and batshit rightwing groups I follow (which also includes a number of more mainstream groups – they’re ALL varying degrees of batshit now) seem to think that Ukraine staged all these things to make Russia look bad, but that they’re also sort of okay with it since the civilians he’s killing were presumably liberals/jews/nazis.
The more mainstream republican groups are mostly saying “this is bad I guess, but it’s also not our problem so why can’t we just give Putin a bunch of oil money and also please don’t look at our campaign funding”
mrmoshpotato
@trollhattan:
No offense to the Donbas region, but that’s fucking laughable on its face.
schrodingers_cat
@schrodingers_cat: *others
evodevo
@bbleh: #4 has been the go-to for the Facebook nazis I interact with…
Redshift
@The Moar You Know:
Maybe not. There is discussion of a proposal to vote that Russia was not entitled to the USSR seat on the Security Council, though I have no idea how feasible that is. Looking it up, that happened because when it broke up, there was a statement from the member states of the USSR that it should go to Russia, and there was no objection from the UN, but it doesn’t look like there was a formal vote to approve it.
Tony Jay
@Yutsano:
Never happen, nor should it. The UN is, basically, the meeting room for all the nations of the world. Membership comes with being a nation, which would make expulsion tantamount to an official denial of your nation’s right to exist.
That’s not a thing we really want coming down to a majority vote, is it?
Sure, boot Russia from all of the UN committees, subcommittees and organisations it’s possible to boot them from, boot them from the SC if possible ( it won’t be) but that’s the limit.
The Moar You Know
@WaterGirl: There is not one thing in that piece that America has not done in my lifetime, and I am not that old. The point is taken; if you’re looking for someone with the moral high ground to condemn Russia, don’t look to America – we have done everything they are doing right now. Recently.
mrmoshpotato
@trollhattan: Looks like Dump needs to start scamming his fascist shitstain cult for $10,000 a day.
Calouste
@WaterGirl:
Countries supporting war crimes:
Algeria
Belarus
Bolivia
Burundi
Central African Republic
China
Congo
Cuba
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Gabon
Iran
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Mali
Nicaragua
North Korea
Russia
Syria
Tajikistan
Uzbekistan
Venezuela
Vietnam
Zimbabwe
cain
@Calouste: Please don’t tell me that India was one of those 23? If so, pathetic.
ETA – Oh good, thank god – India is not one of them. Also fuck China for supporting this trash bullshit.
When Ukraine comes out of this – those countries are gonna be on their list
Raven
One gutty performance at Augusta.
Baud
@The Moar You Know: So who has the moral high ground to condemn us?
The notion of moral high ground among nations is fairly laughable. Should we tell the world to ignore all of Western Europe’s condemnations of Russia because they have checkered pasts too.
trollhattan
@MisterForkbeard:
That’d be great, even better if the judge uses a Dr. Evil voice, “A millyun dollarrrrrs.”
The Golux
@MisterForkbeard:
I say $1 for the first day, and doubling each day.
cain
@mali muso: It’s really no excuse. I mean India did as well. But glad to see that they didn’t vote against.
Redshift
@bbleh: My pet Canadian wingnut who I follow on Twitter mostly sticks with libs caring about Ukraine are just “virtue signaling” because it’s fashionable. And because they’re trying to change the subject from things like… trucker convoys. Really.
cain
@Baud:
I think all we have is to make each nation accountable by calling them out regardless of where their past – obviously every nation has done some shit thing when it comes to human rights. Some at a global level.
smith
@Baud: Going by the moral high ground argument, you’d have to say that since this country committed genocide against Native Americans we had no standing to oppose Hitler. We can acknowledge some grievous failings in our own past, some of them quite recent, while still acting to stop ongoing evil. Otherwise, it would seem to imply that hypocrisy is a greater sin than genocide.
Roger Moore
@bbleh:
I think it’s going to be a mix of all the above depending on the audience. Don’t expect any kind of consistency on the issue. They will deny it happened with one breath and blame everything on Ukraine the next. If they’re pushed, maybe they’ll admit it’s happening and Russia’s fault, but try to absolve Putin with the horrors of war argument. The key is the outcome of the argument, not the details.
mali muso
@cain: Oh definitely not an excuse. Just that it does not surprise me, given what I’ve seen/heard through my familial connections in Mali (one of the countries on the list). Very poor country, historical connections to Russia (scholarships, investment, etc. during the Cold War), lengthy civil unrest with a lingering resentment towards the French colonial power, distrust that is clearly being stoked by Russian disinformation, and a current influx of Chinese investment. It makes me sad to see.
Baud
@cain:
@smith:
Right. The notion also commits the same error conservatives commit when it comes to the U.S. — believing the world is all about us. I doubt Ukraine cares one whit about our sullied past in their quest for allies against Russia.
schrodingers_cat
@cain: For all its pretensions of being Vishwaguru, India abstained
Vishwa== Universe
Roger Moore
@smith:
The “moral high ground” argument is an argument for allowing genocide to continue and thus is no moral high ground at all.
germy
@The Moar You Know:
What’s great about us is that we vote people like W. Bush and Cheney out.
Putin was running Russia when Shrub was our president, and Putin still runs Russia today. We elected Obama after Shrub.
Putin will probably be running Russia until the day he dies.
Imagine if Bush Cheney were still in power here? We don’t allow that.
Barbara
@Betty: Some Caribbean nations host a lot of Russian oligarch yachts. No doubt there are offshore banking facilities that serve oligarchs of many nationalities as well.
schrodingers_cat
BTW guys, guess where the “religious” leader promoting Muslim genocide in India went to school for engineering?
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: Yes, your’e right. Russia will still get to speak at the Security Council.
But the presence of invading & war-crime-ing Russia on the Human Rights Council made a total mockery of the U.N. so at least that’s been remedied.
Geminid
@schrodingers_cat: Algeria is an interesting “No.” Arab states mostly abstained. Algeria has been very aloof in it’s foreign relations. They do supply gas to Europe, 15% of the EU’s consumption (I read recently). They are mad at the Europeans and the U.S. for going along with Moroccan possession of the former Spanish colony of Western Sahara. I don’t how that would affect their vote today.
Secretary of State Blinken was in Algeria last week for talks about natural gas and grain supplies, and probably Western Sahara also.
Mai Naem mobile
@germy: are you channeling Glenn Greenwald or imitating DougJ?
germy
https://www.history.com/news/agent-orange-wasnt-the-only-deadly-chemical-used-in-vietnam
(warning: the above article has photos of Vietnamese children born with birth defects)
But again, what’s different about us is that we got rid of Nixon. If we were North Korea, one of Nixon’s kids would be president. If we were Russia, W would be president.
Despite the sins of our past, we’ve elected a pro-union president who doesn’t want to escalate war. That’s progress.
Peale
@Barbara: It doesn’t effect them one way or another. China though is investing in the region as part of Belt and Road, using Jamaica as a consolidation point so that international shipping can bypass US ports. They are kind of playing the game of “lets play the great powers off each other to see who gives us more.” Voting is rather risky.
eclare
@schrodingers_cat: I have no idea. Liberty U?
WaterGirl
@Calouste: I appreciate the list. Thank you!
Mai Naem mobile
@schrodingers_cat: Gandhi would be rolling in his grave if he had been buried in a grave.
schrodingers_cat
@eclare: Moscow Institute of Chemical Engg.
WaterGirl
@The Moar You Know: Tell me where and when we did this:
scav
So many “moral high ground” arguments do somehow smack of “only virgins can complain about rape” defenses.
schrodingers_cat
@Mai Naem mobile: In Modi’s India, Gandhi is reviled and his assassin is celebrated.
WaterGirl
@mali muso: If you can’t take a stand against genocide, what can you take a stand for?
Is there no line that Russia can cross for some of these countries?
*and by you, I most certainly do not mean YOU. :-)
eclare
@schrodingers_cat: Makes sense. Thanks.
schrodingers_cat
@WaterGirl: For countries with low $$ reserves and no oil reserves, Russian oil is a life line. So long as that remains the case, they won’t cross Russia.
WaterGirl
@germy: When did we do this?
gvg
@Calouste:
I think several of those may be former USSR countries. I wonder if they fear they will be next if the anger Russia?
Spanky
@WaterGirl: You could just look it up in Wikipedia:
Barbara
@schrodingers_cat: You are most likely right. I read somewhere that Russia’s willingness to politicize its oil and gas exports has probably cost it hundreds of billions of dollars because buyers will prefer other suppliers or hedge their purchasing by maintaining other suppliers.
germy
@WaterGirl:
Hiroshima? Nagasaki? Not the same type of bomb, but it makes little difference to the incinerated.
Here’s how I hope this war in Ukraine ends: I hope Putin is captured by a resistance group in his own country and then put on trial. And then executed. Surely his generals will grow tired of the meat grinder, or his billionaires will grow tired of bankruptcy? Maybe I’m being unrealistically hopeful here.
Old School
@WaterGirl:
2017?
Edit: Perhaps more.
eclare
@germy: I have that same hope. Someone on Morning Joe was saying sanctions work, but they take a long time, so it may be a while before internal dissention happens.
I keep thinking it will happen when they run out of TP. And I’m only half joking.
smith
@WaterGirl: There are reports we used thermobaric bombs in Iraq. We definitely used white phosphorus and depleted uranium.
germy
@Old School:
Bush Sr. had his Highway Of Death. I remember the photos of incinerated soldiers who had been bombed while retreating. They looked like skeletons.
WaterGirl
@germy: If the Onion article had talked about Hiroshima and Nagasaki I wouldn’t have taken issue with it. But they didn’t. They talked about other times, and that’s what I took issue with.
germy
I worry they will replace him with someone just as horrible. Surely there are some liberal Russian politicians? Or were they all liquidated?
WaterGirl
@smith: Ugh.
Barbara
@Calouste: I think it would be wrong to generalize the motives behind the no votes. Some of these countries would probably oppose anything that is supported by U.S. — NK, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Cuba, Iran. Others have rulers who are themselves puppets of Putin, like some of the former SSRs. Others might have their own horrific record when it comes to human rights abuses, like Congo and Ethiopia. And others might believe — and resent — that this kind of resolution is being supported for a European, Caucasian nation but would never see the light of day for non-European, non-Caucasian people, especially if they were themselves on the receiving end of a military invasion, like Vietnam. I have no explanation for a country like Bolivia.
Peale
@gvg: They seem to be the countries that went with the “Perpetual Ruler for Life.” model. Many of said countries are on their first or second head of government since 1991, only replacing them when the former guy dies. Heck, I’m surprised Turkmenistan isn’t on there.
Geminid
@WaterGirl: The U.S. used thermobaric bombs in Vietnam. They were called “Daisy Cutters” and were used most often to create helicopter landing zones in jungles. Around 2017 the Air Force dropped a massive thermobaric bomb, the “MOAB,” on a cave complex where a lot of Taliban fighters were hiding. I think these weapons are still allowed under the laws of warfare. We used to do worse with napalm (I think).
Ishiyama
Both the U.S. Civil War and WWII ended (successfully) by demanding Unconditional Surrender; both victories were followed by war crimes trials (Andersonville Prison, one of the first concentration camps, was notorious). Talk of a negotiated settlement with Russia is little short of defeatism.
hotshoe
@trollhattan:
“asked the judge to fine Mr. Trump $10,000 a day until he turns over the materials”
so, lets see, in 100 days that’s a million dollars. Only seven million cost to delay this until he’s president again (as he plans) and uses “his” justice department to make the whole thing go away.
Lord, that fine is nothing to Dumpster. Even if the court has a way of enforcing/collecting those fines from Dirty Don — which I believe they do not — why would he be stung by such a tiny little number out of his hundreds of millions?
On the other hand, if it were you or I, we would be bankrupt in one day at that rate.
Just another example of how there’s one law for the rich and another for the poor.
hotshoe
@MisterForkbeard:
Right!
SiubhanDuinne
@schrodingers_cat:
MICE?
Spanky
@Spanky: Dammit, I had removed all those links, or so I thought.
eclare
@germy: I don’t think we’ll know til Putin is gone. I assume our intelligence knows.
Marc
@WaterGirl:
When did we do this?
The US military calls them Fuel Air Explosives and used them in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq.
Spanky
@SiubhanDuinne: As opposed to the Russian Academy of Technology and Science?
(Not a real place.)
schrodingers_cat
@SiubhanDuinne: Ratfuckers trained by MICE!
VeniceRiley
How handy of the UN to provide a list of countries for Ukraine to not sell wheat to.
debbie
@trollhattan:
I heard that interview this morning! Putin’s not much of a fabricator, is he?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@eclare: Word is Putin’s being outflanked to the Right in Russia so any Putin replacement is likely to be a wingnut.
ian
@germy:
That’s not how I remember 2004.
debbie
@Roger Moore:
Why? It’s not like Putin keeps his word. Kick him out and he’ll eventually return, like cockroaches always do. ?
Steve in the ATL
@Calouste: damn—now I need a whole new itinerary for my spring break trip
germy
@ian:
You’re right. I forgot about Karl Rove.
debbie
@Raven:
Have the azaleas bloomed yet, with all this wacky weather?
Roger Moore
@WaterGirl:
The US calls ours “Fuel Air Explosives”, but they’re basically the same thing as Russian thermobaric weapons. FWIW, the stuff about sucking the oxygen out of the air and incinerating people is mostly scary sounding nonsense. Anyone who’s close enough to suffer from those things will be killed by the blast. They aren’t pleasant ways to kill people, but few weapons of war are.
Kayla Rudbek
@The Golux: I love a person who appreciates the power of the exponential!
Marc
“Daisy cutters” and “MOAB” are not thermobaric weapons, they are large ANFO (ammonium nitrate/fuel oil) high explosive bombs, much like what was used in the Oklahoma City bombing.
Geminid
@Old School: That’s right, we used the MOAB bomb against the Islamic State, not the Taliban as I said above.
Ishiyama
Keep your eyes on the Baltic Front. Finnish President Sauli Niinistö was interviewed and said this:
Russia could lose use of its northern ports real easily.
Geminid
@Marc: The Wikipedia article you cite says that thermobaric bombs are fuel-air explosives. I thought that the “Daisy Cutter” used in Vietnam was a fuel-air explosive. But I guess a bomb with fuel oil and nitrates would clear a landing zone and would be cheap.
Amir Khalid
Malaysia, like a lot of countries in the Non-Aligned Movement, abstained. As a Malaysian, I am embarrassed by this abstention. This matter has nothing to do with ideology or geopolitical alignment. The evidence showing that Russia’s military has been committing atrocities against civilians in Ukraine is overwhelming. We should have voted Yes.
Geminid
@Amir Khalid: How do you think Malaysian media will treat this vote?
Calouste
A couple of interesting yes votes, for various reasons: Libya, Myanmar, Serbia, Georgia.
Amir Khalid
@Geminid:
With indifference. It’s a war between white people in a faraway country.
schrodingers_cat
@Amir Khalid: That’s better than some Indian channels carrying water for Putin.
TonyG
@mrmoshpotato: Donbas. The 51st state. Maybe we could trade Alabama for it.
Geminid
@Calouste: Turkey could have abstained, but they also voted yes. That nation has not leaned into sanctions like other NATO countries.
WaterGirl
@Spanky: On a mac you can choose “paste and match style” and all the links are removed. I’m sure there’s something equivalent on other operating systems.
That also helps if you are copying a few paragraphs from an online source. If you do “paste” you’ll often end up with 4 separate block quotes, one for each paragraph.
With paste and match style, you might have to add a couple of line breaks, but at least you get rid of all the extra crap HTML.
WaterGirl
@VeniceRiley:
I have really been appreciating your comments lately.
WaterGirl
I appreciate all the people who took the time to show how wrong I was on the weapons used by the US. (not snark)
Ken
How so? The United States’ interest in buying foreign territories, such as Greenland, is well-established.
Geminid
@WaterGirl: Molly Conger once speculated that the AR-15 got it’s name because whenever she mentions this assault rifle there ARe 15 guys jumping into her timeline to explain it to her.
WaterGirl
@Geminid: That was good for a laugh out loud.
OC
@Xentik: Completely agree. That should have happened a long time ago.
cliosfanboy
@Yutsano:
that didn’t work so well with Japan in 1931. They just left in a huff and kept Manchuria.
Martin
Interesting. Senate unanimously passes a lend-lease bill to give military assistance to Ukraine. No limit for the duration of the aid (indefinite) and expresses the start of the conflict as the annexation of Crimea, so presumably that’s a green light that we can support Ukraine until they retake Crimea as well. Looks like we can lend/lease them anything in the arsenal, provided they can use it and that we want to lend/lease it, of course.
Not a formal announcement of an escalation but sure seems to be laying the foundation of one.
WaterGirl
@Martin: I surely hope you are correct! Your track record is pretty good.
CliosFanBoy
@schrodingers_cat: I’ve been meaning to ask you. I know the BJP is anti-Muslim and anti-Christian. What’s their opinion of Sikhs?
Cameron
@Martin: Good news for the armaments industry.
Repatriated
The Vietnam-era “Daisy-cutters” weren’t fuel-air bombs. They were simply big tanks (6 tons) of conventional high explosives
ETA: multiple-ninja’d
NotMax
@Old School
Also documented use in Fallujah.
Martin
Just reread what constitutes a thermobaric bomb only to learn that I deployed them several times in college. Empty 2L soda bottle, cut off valve stem from a bicycle tire threaded through the cap of the bottle. Fill bottle partially with cake flour. Attach rag to side. Inflate bottle to 100 PSI, light rag, throw off 3rd floor roof of dorm at 3AM onto concrete.
The bottle will usually rupture when it hits the ground, the air pressure disburses the flour evenly, the rag lights the flour when it hits the right air mixture, and it sounds like a cannon going off with a big fireball. Scares the living shit out of everyone in the dorm. Set up the lab experiment to determine the optimal flour/air mixture for extra credit.
Also turned into a good illustration of how justice works. Everyone knew it was me who was doing it, and yet I never got caught. There’s a big difference between knowing who is guilty and proving who is guilty.
Miss Bianca
@Martin:
Wow, really? That’s a BFBD, if so!
Also, too…this…
needs to be tattooed somewhere that all the “WHY DON’T THEY JUST…DO SOMETHING!!11!!” crowd can check it for easy reference.
Darkrose
@Peale: I immediately thought of John Oliver when you said that.
CliosFanBoy
@Martin: reminds me of the time I shot bottle rockets off from a friend’s dorm room at the rival frat next door. Little did I know there was a cop car parked in the alley below. OOPS>
AWOL
@Mike S: He’s out of house arrest for possessing child porn?
Spanky
@WaterGirl: There’s a button on the comment window that looks like an exploding link which, well, breaks links. I thought i’d highlighted the whole quote and ‘sploded it, but evidently not.
schrodingers_cat
@CliosFanBoy: The Sangh considers Buddhists, Sikhs and Jains, Junior League Hindus.
CliosFanBoy
@Mike S: He was right on Iraq’s WMDs, but somehow I am not surprised he went to RT
CliosFanBoy
@schrodingers_cat: Thanks, I just wondered. The Buddhist part surprises me though.
Roger Moore
@Martin:
ISTR that General Sherman’s army liked to use finely dispersed flour as an explosive during the march to the sea. It was a good choice for them if they wanted to destroy stuff, since they didn’t have a supply train to provide more gunpowder. There was plenty of flour, though, so they could burn it to their heart’s content. So if you want to count that, the US military has been using fuel/air explosives since the 19th century.
Geminid
@Martin: This whole thermobaric bomb thing has been very confusing. I read that they are fuel-air bombs, and those are not thermobaric bombs, but they might be fuel/fertilizer bombs which may or may not be thermobaric. A Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists article says that the Massive Ordinance Air Bomb dropped in Afghanistan was a fuel/air bomb, while Wikipedia tells me the MOAB contained 18,000 pounds of the castable explosive H-6.
And now you say that you made thermobaric bombs with flour! This is starting to be like Rashobomb. Now I’m waiting for a frightened peasant to pop up and give me the the real story on thermobaric weapons.
schrodingers_cat
@CliosFanBoy: All these faiths originated in the subcontinent, that’s their logic.
WaterGirl
@Spanky: I had never tried that before! :-)
I copied your comment with all the links into a new comment, highlighted all of it and hit that button and all the blue went away, so the links went away.
No idea what happened with yours. ?♀️
WaterGirl
No one commented on the cartoon, but I rather liked that one.
trollhattan
@Roger Moore: Happens in grain elevators too, just as a reminder: More things go “boom” than you realize.
Betty
@Barbara: Oddly enough Antgua which hosts some of those yachts voted to expel.
Betty
@Peale: But Dominica is quite dependent on China and still voted to expel. I think they should all have to explain abstaining to their citizens.
cain
@schrodingers_cat:
Cowards, they should have taken asside. India owes Russia nothing.
schrodingers_cat
@cain: Russia is India’s major fuel and weapons supplier . Russia (and USSR before that) has been pretty important ally since independence.
Agreed about the coward part.
CliosFanBoy
@schrodingers_cat: Ok, that kind of makes sense.
Marc
There is a lot of confusion here, I was wrong about MOAB containing ANFO, Wikipedia and the journal article are wrong about it being a thermobaric bomb. It does contain H6, a mixture of high explosives and aluminum powder. H6 is a related to Torpex and Tritonal, used in WWII blockbuster bombs. It is not thermobaric, as the aluminum powder is not ignited after mixing with air, it is added “fuel” for the conventional high explosives.
trollhattan
@cain:
India buys a lot of military hardware from Russia and I suppose they need to keep that relationship intact. Not excusing them, but it’s a complication repeated around the globe.
“Sorry general, I keep dialing the spare parts line but nobody picks up.”
cain
@schrodingers_cat:
I’ve been told that Sikhs are very anti Muslim themselves.
cain
@schrodingers_cat:
A nation of engineers and doctors and we can’t find alternatives? Always fucking bugs me.
cain
@trollhattan:I get that but you know you can find alternatives.
I think it is important to be on the right side of history.
Professor Bigfoot
@WaterGirl: The Americans have used those weapons, absolutely— but I don’t believe the Americans have used those weapons directly against civilians. I don’t believe Americans have literally gone house to house and shot all the men as a matter of policy; as a matter of doctrine, ordered by senior field grade officers (captains, majors and colonels).
Perhaps I wear rose glasses, but I can’t see the American military involved in the scenes we saw in Bucha. At least, not without some courts martial (see Eddie Gallagher, for example).
Omnes Omnibus
This really should not be a topic for whataboutisms. People who feel the need to do that need to sit down and have a good, long think.
bookworm1398
It’s not that the US is better in an absolute moral sense, it’s that they try to do better. They improve over time, reduce the war crimes, change their institutions.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: Thanks for saying that. I was thinking the same thing myself.
Marc
During WWII the US routinely dropped high explosives, incendiary devices, and, of course, atomic bombs, on targets where civilians were known to be present. I’m not equating us with the Russians, just suggesting that we can’t really claim much moral high ground in that regard.
Who was one of three known war criminals who were pardoned or promoted by a democratically elected President of the US.
Omnes Omnibus
@Marc: One doesn’t much moral high ground to condemn the Russians.
jayne
If Trump were still president, there is a decent chance that the US would be backing Russia in this fight, and possibly trying to bring Donnie’s other crush Kim Jong-Un on board with us. Glossing over past mistakes has gone poorly for this country since at least 1861. We have an obligation to do better, and part of that includes acknowledging our own actions.
Denali
I was kind of surprised to see Bolivia, Cuba, and Laos on the list.
YY_Sima Qian
I am disgusted, but not surprised, by China’s vote. China’s entire interest on the UN Human Rights Council is to minimize & deflect criticism coming from that quarter against Chines human rights abuses. It has always made common cause w/ countries that feel the same.
YY_Sima Qian
@Professor Bigfoot: Firebombing German & Japanese cities during WW II, use of Agent Orange in Vietnam. Then there are the economic sanctions whose entire purpose is to cause pain on the civilian population to undermine support of the ruling regimes (Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea), that never seem to work.
YY_Sima Qian
OTOH, it does not appear that China expended any effort to whip up votes for Russia, no point reinforcing failure.