Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

Come on, man.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

We still have time to mess this up!

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself.

I was promised a recession.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

You are here: Home / Politics / Biden Administration in Action / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Scheduling

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Scheduling

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No doubt WaterGirl will have a post up for this, but you may want to set aside some time now:

…Biden is to address Americans from the White House Roosevelt Room at 9.45 a.m. (1345 GMT) and a source familiar with the planning said he is “expected to provide an update on our efforts to support Ukraine and the assistance we are providing.”

The new arms package was likely to be roughly the same size as an $800 million one announced last week but details were still being worked out, another U.S. official told Reuters earlier…


Then, this afternoon:

Overseas:

Wouldn’t it be nice to think so?

Reader Interactions

157Comments

  2. 2.

    Baud

    The @WHCA is pleased to host President Biden and Dr. Jill Biden as we honor the First Amendment at our dinner on April 30.

    Probably the one and only time I will agree with Trump’s approach over Biden’s.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    Our recovery has now created 7.9 million jobs — more jobs created over the first 14 months of any presidency ever.
    Unemployment is at 3.6% — down from 6.4% when I took office. That’s the fastest decline in unemployment to start a President’s term ever recorded.

    That really is incredible.

  8. 8.

    NotMax

    even if he was still deemed arrogant

    Feature, not bug of the French, who have a lot of Gaul.

    ;)

  9. 9.

    NotMax

    celebrating defiance to sunken Russian flagship Moskva

    Putin: “You sunk my battleflagship!”

    //

  10. 10.

    SFAW

    The “senior Kremlin insiders are quietly expressing alarm over Putin’s decision to go to war” reminds me of the “small but growing number of Trump former confidants who now express their (earlier) alarm, which they never noted until there was money to be made by having a book to shill.”

    I really wish Merrick Garland would hurry-the-fuck-up and indict a few of the key players in the insurrection. The DoJ “keeping their powder dry” — if that’s what’s happening — does not do the country any good.

  11. 11.

    Spanky

    I see we all zeroed in on Macron’s most French quality. But no one has mentioned Le Pen’s arrogance?

  15. 15.

    SFAW

    @Spanky:

    When it’s a non-RWMF woman, any/all derogatory epithets are allowed; when it’s a fascist-adjacent or other type of RWMF woman … crickets.

  19. 19.

    Kay

    Defense of Libs of Tik Tok written from the perspective of the incredibly boring Right/Center  obsession with “wokeness”:

    Batya Ungar-Sargon is deputy opinion editor of Newsweek and author of “Bad News: How Woke Media Is Undermining Democracy.”

    It’s a standard centrist argument but it’s by a “Marxist”, which I suppose is what makes it different than what James Carville or 15 other centrist political pundits and the entire NY Times editorial roster say constantly

    Unlike the “Marxist” I actually live in a rural conservative area and if they really think there’s no homophobia they should parachute in for a visit. Pete Buttigieg was absolutely the target of vicious homophobia here, which spiked when he announced he had children.

  20. 20.

    p.a.

    I want the DoJ to be in lockstep with House and Senate investigations of 1/6 in information, indictment, contempt citations etc etc with both eyes on: 1 punishing criminal behavior, and 1a burying the Republican Party in its own filth for the ’22 elections.

    I also know as far as the DoJ is concerned that this will be “wrong”, but note my use of ” “.

  22. 22.

    Geminid

    @Spanky: That sounded like a good debate. I read that when the topic of Putin came up, Le Pen reproached Macron for hosting Putin on a state visit. Macron fired back, “I hosted a head of state, not my banker.”

  24. 24.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Oh, they CONTROL media. Wokesters! Except the NYTimes, the Washington Post, the WSJ and half of the cable news channels.

    It is amusing how that one story created this absolute firestorm on the far Right and the professional cancel culture warriors. Direct hit.

  26. 26.

    Geminid

    @Baud: I Macron wins Sunday he will be the first French President to be reelected since Chirac in 2002. That year, Chirac faced Le Pen’s father in the runoff.

  27. 27.

    Kay

    I regret to inform you-all that Trumpsters here believe that if Republicans take the House the GOP House will certify Trump’s election and decertify Biden’s. This is a major motivator for them in the upcoming elections.

  30. 30.

    debbie

    @sdhays:

    Still not fast enough. Ukraine needs to be swimming in this stuff to gain any sort of advantage over the Russians.

  31. 31.

    Geminid

    @Kay: I’ve seen this in other states’ Republican primaries. Putting Trump on the ballot could cut both ways. How do you think that would affect Marcy Kaptur’s reelection fight? November elections generally?

  32. 32.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    Marcy Kaptur has so much her own identity in Ohio I think she’s a special case. She really, really understands the northern tier of the state and she works her ass off. I just wouldn’t group her in with the rest of the Democrats. If she loses it’s an absolute bloodbath. You would not find a better candidate.

  33. 33.

    JMG

    1. The French always dislike their leaders. Macron is running to be the first President re-elected since the ’80s.
    2. Macron embodies the stereotypes of the French elite, a group produced by a few very small specialized schools that are kind of like top US grad schools but even more so.
    3. At the same time, the French also have a strict idea of what a proper leader looks and sounds like, and dignity is right at the top of their list. It’s contradictory, but there you are.
    4. LePen almost surely won’t win. If Putin hadn’t invaded Ukraine, she almost surely would be winning.
  34. 34.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    So, like, Marcy Kaptur coattails would help Tim Ryan in Lucas County (Toledo) and not the reverse. She’s an institution.

  35. 35.

    montanareddog

    @West of the Cascades: Certainly, in a 5th Republic French president. Not sure about Pompidou, but De Gaulle, Giscard D’Estaing, Mitterand, Sarkozy, Hollande all had it in spades.

    Chirac had many other flaws (corruption, 5 minutes douche comprise, for example) but he was not particularly arrogant. His wife more than made up for him, though

  37. 37.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Excitement! We’re in Antwerp. As I was going to breakfast today, there was a woman standing in her cabin doorway talking to an officer, and she said. “But I’m negative.” That, of course, led me to think that her traveling companion was positive for covid (they’re spit testing us daily). So we just saw luggage being taken off that we assume belongs to them. I think they go to a hotel to be quarantined until they test negative and can fly back to the US. I immediately decided I should wear my mask more faithfully. I’ve been a little lax because I knew everyone on board was vaccinated and tested daily.

    Antwerp is nice. What else can I say?

  38. 38.

    Amir Khalid

    @Anyway:

    I’m not even American, and I remember Barack Obama absolutely killing it as a standup comedian at the WHCDs during his administration.

    Seriously, though, the WHCA isn’t inherently evil, it’s only a dinner, and President and Dr Biden will be there as guests. I’m not sure what’s objectionable about that.

  39. 39.

    Geminid

    @Kay: Kaptur has been an effective  Representative who knows northern Ohio well. I think her new district was rated R+3 in it’s latest iteration, so she has a small hill at least to climb.  But if her opponent wins his primary on a platform of making Trump President again, do you think this would this be a good issue for Kaptur to use against him?

  40. 40.

    Kay

    I had forgotten about this but I read a lot about public schools and I remembered it the other day.

    Campbell Brown launched a “public schools teachers are all pedophiles” campaign in 2012. She was all over the place with it. This is her in the WSJ. It (amusingly) coincided with a huge glut of news about child sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, which for some reason she didn’t crusade on.

    They just juice the panics year after year and eventually they create one. Campbell Brown was pushing this same thing a decade ago.

  41. 41.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    It’s not that small a hill. She went from Biden + 15 to Trump + 3.

    I think the Democratic redistricting gains are exaggerated. Democrats got hurt in these redistricts. They didn’t get anniliated, but the breezy “oh, they did okay” stuff is feel-good bullshit. It’s a hill.

  42. 42.

    sab

    @Kay: Ha! My youngest sister-in-law got yanked out of Catholic school and put into public school when her parents’ realized that one of her teacher/nuns was a pedophile.

  43. 43.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Bill Maher claims to be a big free speech advocate. Every week now on his show he talks about the scourge of “wokeness”, but not one word about the speech codes state legislatures are passing for teachers, or the book bannings and public library takeovers by religious conservatives. I guess talking about “wokeness” is “dangerous and sexy”, while talking about real threats to free speech is boring and unsexy. I still think his crusade is ultimately about his anger that younger audiences don’t find his humor funny anymore, so if he wants them to laugh he has to write new material and he doesn’t want to do that.

  46. 46.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I think none of them remember phone books and calling 411 to get a phone number and address!! This used to be easily available public information for anyone to get unless you paid the phone company to keep it secret. Now, they think it’s a big scandal if you look up public records, find someone’s address, and go knock on their door.

  48. 48.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    The “Marxists” twitter replies are all from centrists and conservatives who say “I never thought I would agree with a Marxist!”

    They agree with the Marxist because the Marxist doesn’t actually say anything about Marxists. It’s  ranting about Democrats and liberals and defending the status quo. Of course they agree with it.

    I don’t object to people self-identifying as Marxists and espousing standard Right and center Right views, but they’re Right and center Right views, indistinguishable from all the others.

  49. 49.

    VOR

    @Kay: I saw a piece yesterday on another possible way to mess w/the election. The House is sworn in prior to the electoral tally, the event scheduled for January 6, 2021. It’s a joint session of Congress. But the key is the House has to AGREE to meet to tally the electoral votes. The Speaker of the House doesn’t have to be a member, so that’s where you hear about the possibility of naming TFG as Speaker of the House. So imagine this scenario:

    1. Republicans get a majority in 2024 House.
    2. They elect TFG as Speaker.
    3. They simply refuse to meet w/Senate to certify the Electoral count.
    4. End of the term hits, both sitting President and VP’s term expires.
    5. Speaker of the House (TFG) becomes acting President.

    The claim is there is no mechanism to FORCE the House to meet w/the Senate, it’s just another norm of behavior. I don’t know if this is actually possible, but it is pretty scary.

  51. 51.

    Geminid

    @Kay: It seems like reapportionment and redistricting left Democrats and Republicans about where they were before. Last year a lot of people assumed Democrats were going to get slaughtered so the relief may be exagerated. I was a comparative optimist when I predicted redistricting putting Democrats down by high single digits.

    But I know that we can still get slaughtered in November on a relatively neutral map. My new district is rated D+7 but I don’t think Democrats here will be complacent. The trick will be turning out at least some of the infrequent voters who tend to sit out off-year elections. Their absence hurt us last year when Foungkin Youngkin won by two points.

  52. 52.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    They LOVE wokeness. Books, shows, seminars, podcasts, entire substacks. It’s their absolute favorite subject. It lets them sneer at liberals without idenitifying as a Republican or a conservative, which is ordinary and uncool.

    These are people who genuinely believe that “wokeness” and “cancel culture” are the single greatest threat facing the country. And they tell other people they’re in a bubble.

    They’re responsible for the book bans. They created a panic around CRT and that’s what the book bans are ostensibly for. This is on them.

  53. 53.

    Geminid

    @Kay: Part of the attraction of “Woke” is that the term comes out of Black vernacular so it makes a good dog whistle.

  54. 54.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Yep, I find it revealing that Maher now rarely has anyone on his show who pushes back against his obsession with “wokeness” being the absolute #1 danger to free speech today. He almost always has on someone who agrees with him about the issue, though. Every now and then someone does push back, which I appreciate, but it’s rare. It’s stunning that he doesn’t seem at all concerned about laws that regulate the actual words teachers can say in the classroom!

  55. 55.

    Steeplejack

    A small but increasing number of senior Kremlin insiders are quietly expressing alarm over Putin’s decision to go to war in Ukraine.

    Get back to me when it tops “Susan Collins level” concern.

  56. 56.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    I did a law school project on the satanic child sex abuse panic. There were three main players in that panic. There was media hysteria, there were conservatives, who were freaking out that women were in the workforce and gaining economic agency BUT there were also liberals, who were so dug in on how they were supposedly “protecting children” that they ignored that this panic was mostly grounded in bullshit and didn’t call out their own fake experts.

    I don’t think conservative panics can take hold without useful idiot liberals. They’re necessary. So when Campbell Brown was pitching this “pedophile teachers” panic in 2012 she didn’t have the useful idiot liberals she needed to make it really light up. Now she does.

  58. 58.

    Jeffro

    @Geminid: yes – that, and the fact that it mocks liberals’ ideas of being educated & enlightened.  it’s actually the conservatives who are enlightened and us libs who are stupid and narrow-minded, you see (eyeroll)

  59. 59.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    Oh, absolutely. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the “wokeness” panic really took hold with the BLM protests. It’s about who gets to control “culture” and who gets to define what a liberal is.

    The 1619 project is about history which is a HUGE field with lots and lots of authors. Why did these people freak the fuck out about it and announce all of western civilization was at risk? It’s an INSANE over reaction.

  60. 60.

    Miss Bianca

    @Baud: I agree. Yuck – that’s one “tradition” that really needs to have died during that dumpster fire administration.

  62. 62.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    I could never stand him, but “sneering fake liberal” is probably my least favorite pundit pose. If your thing is you want to bully some 22 year old social worker who makes 15 dollars an hour and just finished an “equity” seminar and is a little over enthusiastic about it, well, I’m not paying for that. It’s mean spirited junk.

    I’d like to put them all in a 6th grade public school classroom as teachers. They wouldn’t last a week. Especially not now, now that teachers are afraid to run afoul of one of their state law speech bans.

    Good free speech work! Excellent job! You all managed to make it much, much worse.

  64. 64.

    Betty Cracker

    @debbie: Can’t remember where, but I read a piece recently on Le Pen’s attempt to rehabilitate her image for the upcoming election. Her strategy is to downplay her reputation as an anti-immigrant bigot and Putin stooge. The strategy centered on an interview with “the French Oprah” that emphasized Le Pen’s love of cats and reconciliation with estranged family members. For real!

  67. 67.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker:

    Her strategy is to downplay her reputation as an anti-immigrant bigot and Putin stooge. The strategy centered on an interview with “the French Oprah” that emphasized Le Pen’s love of cats and reconciliation with estranged family members. For real!

    I thought righties never softened their image to play to the middle.

    Of course, if she loses, they may never do it again.

  69. 69.

    Kay

    This is what DeSantis is banning in public schools:

    4. Along w/many math problems, there are short sections encouraging kids to be nice “How can you show that you value the ideas of others?” “Tell your partners you can do it!” This is the “dangerous” ideology DeSantis is protecting Florida kids from

    “Share your ideas, value ideas from others, listen with an open mind”

    Governor DeSantis thinks this ordinary, public school training of little kids in how to act like a decent human being and function in a group should be forbidden.

    Never forget who supported this panic. They should never be listened to on anything important again.

  70. 70.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    “Wokeness” would have tempered without the grasping, managing, controlling interfence from the self appointed  “Guardians of Western Civilization” because young people get over enthusiastic with new ideas and then they moderate.

    The middle aged police had to rush in and start arresting the 22 year olds for excessive “equity” violations.

  71. 71.

    Cameron

    @Kay: Damn.  I’ve been planning to start a couple of those Touchstone Discussion Project groups at the local library branch, specifically because it’s within a block or two of an elementary school and the State College of Florida.  Better forget that – I don’t want to spend the rest of my golden years in Raiford.

  72. 72.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: Also interesting that the only DeSantis-approved elementary school level math textbooks come from a single publisher that just so happens to have been acquired by the Carlyle Group, an investment fund whose CEO was…Glenn Youngkin.

    Here’s what DeSantis’s horrid press secretary had to say about the issue:

    What a repulsive pack of liars they are!

  75. 75.

    Kay

    @Cameron:

    I think the “anti woke” and “CRT” panics will end when they overreach to the extent where public school parents realize second grade teachers can no longer tell children to “work with others” – banned speech.

  76. 76.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    Their screeching has really reached a fever pitch. Hey, speaking of “paying for” is that state employee still spending her time on the taxpayer dime promoting and working with “Libs of Tik Tok”? Is that what Floridians are paying her for or does she have some actual duties? They’re paying a full time, far Right social media influencer? Is there a kickback from Libs of Tik Tok or is she just billing us?

  77. 77.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    Their screeching has really reached a fever pitch. Hey, speaking of “paying for” is that state employee still spending her time on the taxpayer dime promoting and working with “Libs of Tik Tok”? Is that what Floridians are paying her for or does she have some actual duties? They’re paying a full time, far Right social media influencer? Is there a kickback from Libs of Tik Tok or is she just billing us?

  78. 78.

    Anyway

    @Amir Khalid:

    I remember Obama killing it at the WHCDs. I am worried about our (elderly) POTUS catching something (though he’s double-boosted and all). Look at what happened at the Gridiron event. The attendees and staff at these events may not be vaccinated, properly tested etc.

  81. 81.

    Kay

    The backstory on our fierce advocate in Michigan:

    Jennifer Berkshire
    @BisforBerkshire
    ·Apr 20
    A little Michigan education politics backstory here: Mallory McMorrow was part of a blue wave in suburban Detroit that ousted DeVos-backed Republicans whose anti-public school politics were increasingly unpopular.

    So this is her wheelhouse. She won on defending public education from conservatives.

  82. 82.

    Geminid

    @Jeffro:

     

    @Kay: Pete Snyder ran second to Youngkin in last year’s Republican convention. I remember the punchline of a radio ad he ran:

        Woke liberal mobs burning down our businesses and neighborhoods? Not on my watch!

  83. 83.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: We are paying her $120K per year to be a full-time right-wing internet troll. If the whoever emerges as the Dem opponent doesn’t emphasize that, it will be political malpractice, IMO. DeSantis employs many incompetent wingnuts who get huge salaries (Pushaw’s is among the lowest) for being full-time hard-right culture warriors. I think most Floridians would disapprove of that if they knew about it.

  84. 84.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: Did you see Greg Sargent’s column in The Post about McMorrow’s speech? He called James Carville to ask his opinion (as an anti-“woke” Dem), and Carville approved of how she handled it. I almost did a post about it yesterday, but I suspect people here are sick of my jeremiads that touch on Dem messaging, so I thought better of it. :)

  85. 85.

    Miss Bianca

    @Kay: This is going on in my community right now. The editor/publisher of the local right-wing newsletter (I refuse to call it a newspaper), recently did a podcast interview with some Texas outfit where he openly bragged about how he had worked to get a right-wing school board elected and he is now harassing the school’s outgoing Superintendent with allegations that the social-emotional learning curriculum at the school promotes CRT, OH NOES!

    Besides being bullshit on its face, I wonder why the idea of teaching respect for diversity and inclusiveness, getting in touch with your emotions, and learning to problem-solve and not be bullies is SO GODDAMN TRIGGERING for these assholes. I also wonder whether at any point the tools on the School Board are going to wonder whether the tinpot Goebbels that championed them will ever turn on *them* the first time they say, “hey…wait a minute…I actually *don’t* think that my kids’ preschool teacher is a pedophile.”

  86. 86.

    horatius

    @SFAW: He’s the worst hire of the Biden administration. He need a wartime consigliere. He got a fucking pacifist.

  89. 89.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @SFAW: @horatius:

    I really wish Merrick Garland would hurry-the-fuck-up and indict a few of the key players in the insurrection. The DoJ “keeping their powder dry” — if that’s what’s happening — does not do the country any good.

    neither does prosecutions being thrown out by judges or defendants being acquitted or convictions being overturned on appeal because prosecutors hurried the fuck up because internet commenters were looking to black-letter law for emotional satisfaction from a “wartime consigliere”

  90. 90.

    horatius

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: He’s not gonna do a fucking thing. Nobody is going to jail for the insurrection and that’ll lead to more insurrections. We lose the house or the Senate, it won’t matter what indictments he brings. He’s already lost.

  91. 91.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @horatius: He’s not gonna do a fucking thing. Nobody is going to jail for the insurrection

    there are currently about 800 on-going prosecutions, the DOJ had to hire over a hundred lawyers specifically to handle these cases, and a lot of people have gone to jail

  93. 93.

    Kay

    @zhena gogolia:

    It’s funny because I had 4 kids thru public schools and attended one myself and what little kids take away from school- what they talk about- is exactly this kind of thing. I like talking to kids and they don’t talk about the math problems. They’re human so they talk about who drives them crazy in the class and what’s unfair and why do they have to be nice to bad or perhaps dumb people :)

    Which I like talking about too! To miss this whole aspect of what is a really their “community” (a school) seems to me to be a real misunderstanding of what’s important to them.

  96. 96.

    Kay

    @zhena gogolia:

    I think there’s some hope on the latest campaign. They’ve won some school board races on it but they’ve also lost some on it. Their win record on the “you’re all pedophiles” push is decidedly mixed.

  97. 97.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Kay: Sharing your ideas is what science is based on. Peer review is just a fancy name for you sharing your ideas so that others reproduce them to test their validity. That’s how progress happens.

    Also why is woke a bad thing. Rs wants all to be asleep or at least pretend to be.

  98. 98.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Marcy Wheeler is so deep in the weeds she’s hard to follow, but she’s been posting some interesting stuff on the Tom Barrack case (what’s that? You’re enraged about Do Nothing Garland and don’t know that trump’s largest donor is currently indictment for corrupt foreign practices with Gulf State agents? And that the prosecution was started by Do-Nothing Mueller? huh, how ’bout that)

    Barrack seems to be claiming that he couldn’t be a foreign agent bc the campaign–and then later, the White House–knew and approved of what he was doing. In response to Barrack’s demands, EDNY is now sifting thru Trump’s WH records for discovery.

    Commenter Lasharongue (sp? they’re an infrequent poster) linked to this discussion between Wheeler and Ben Wittes. Again, she’s hard to follow cause she’s so deep into the actual substance of various investigations, but I think it goes a long way to rebutting the whole Do Something! argument against Garland, while illustrating the complexities of actual prosecutions so insistently ignored by people emotionally invested in a Seize Them! fantasy about the rule of law.

  99. 99.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Teachers in Iowa say that they struggle to teach the 3/5 compromise in the Constitution because they’re afraid of violating the law! They can’t teach the Constitution now because of speech bans. You’d think a “free speech warrior” like Bill Maher would be concerned about this, but so far not a word about it.

  100. 100.

    Soprano2

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: All of the “seize them now” people want visuals of TFG and his kids and people in his administration in handcuffs and orange jumpsuits. I don’t think they care if the actual prosecutions hold up, they just want the visual satisfaction of seeing that on TV and the internet. It’s shallow and whiny. They have no idea how hard it is to build a case against someone like TFG so it actually sticks. I think Amanda Marcotte is the smartest of those people, because she’s worried that the longer they all go without being indicted the harder it’s going to be to convince people they actually did anything wrong, because in the public’s mind arrests = being guilty, so if TFG and his kids aren’t arrested most people think they didn’t do anything wrong. I think there’s something to that, but these kind of things cannot be rushed or in the end you end up with NOTHING to show for all your effort.

  101. 101.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Soprano2: Marcotte’s not wrong, but the sad fact is that the forum for holding trump accountable was impeachment. And Democrats did that. I thought pretty effectively, as did ten Republican Senators. Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham and Kevin McConnell all thought 1/6 would be a fatal and self-inflicted blow to trump as a political force. Not for the first time, they overestimated the civic engagement of the American people

  102. 102.

    Soprano2

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think impeachment is “broken”, at least for my lifetime (I’m 61). It’s become a completely political act, which was started by Republicans when they impeached Bill Clinton for cheating on his wife and lying about it (not perjury, people so misunderstand that!) and for being more popular with the American public than they were.

  103. 103.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    Well, I don’t want any of that. I never thought Trump would be prosecuted and I still don’t. I just think Rudy Guiliani’s communications sitting with a “special master” to determine his privilege claims for more than a year is unacceptably slow.

  104. 104.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I agree that they way they are slowing stuff down in the courts is a problem. I’m not sure what can be done about that when people have a lot of money and lawyers to throw at you. ETA – what do you do when your side wants to follow the actual law, and the other side doesn’t give a shit about what the law says but instead is willing to cheat and lie and do whatever they can to keep from ever being held accountable. You’re right that our system is broken because it cannot deal with these people in a timely manner, but I’m not sure what can be done about it in a timely manner either.

  105. 105.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay: 

    I regret to inform you-all that Trumpsters here believe that if Republicans take the House the GOP House will certify Trump’s election and decertify Biden’s. This is a major motivator for them in the upcoming elections.

    Cool! That would disqualify him from being elected in 2024.

    After all, the 22nd Amendment doesn’t say a person has to take office in order for it to count as having been elected.

    So if the House and Senate belatedly certify Trump as having been elected in 2020, and everybody else just says, “so what?” and goes on as before, that’s it: Trump’s been elected twice, can’t be elected again.

  106. 106.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    Prosecutors made the unusual request for the appointment of a lawyer or “special master” to protect attorney-client privilege the day after the raids, citing the need to make it clear that materials were reviewed appropriately.Oetken said he “agrees that the appointment of a special master is warranted here to ensure the perception of fairness.”

    More than a year later, here we are. It’s two and a half years past the offense, because it took them a year and a half to excute the search warrant.

  107. 107.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    In the end it doesn’t matter. It’s up to Garland the DOJ and nothing we do will have any influence over it. But if nothing happens Democratic voters, who were told these were crimes that went to the heart of democracy, will no longer find the people who told them that credible. The people who told them that were Democrats. If you don’t want expectaions raised then don’t raise expectations, but blaming the Democratic voters who were assured these people would be held accountable seems incredibly unfair.

  108. 108.

    lowtechcyclist

    @debbie:

    Still not fast enough. Ukraine needs to be swimming in this stuff to gain any sort of advantage over the Russians.

    This. And they need good NATO tanks and jets, even if it’s 30 year old stuff that NATO countries are replacing with newer stuff, because that’s what it will take to push Russia out of eastern Ukraine.

    Yes, it’ll take time for the Ukrainians to master Western heavy weaponry, so the sooner they receive it, the better.  The danger to guard against is that Russia controls too much of Ukraine for too long, not that Ukraine wins the war before they can master non-Soviet weaponry.

  109. 109.

    Baud

    @Kay: Who promised that?  I recall Biden saying he was going to leave prosecutions up to the DOJ and not interfere the way Trump had.

  110. 110.

    Kathleen

    @Betty Cracker: I  usually like Sargent but I thought he was way off base in his framing her speech in terms of “messaging” and “wokeness”. Her speech was a heartfelt and angry response to a sick psycho Bully and I wish each elected Democrat would express their own personal, honest, righteous and heartfelt outrage. It would be very powerful.

  111. 111.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kay: Ah, I knew you’d find a way to blame Democrats!

    How about if you and Will Stancil and the rest of the Do Something! caucus blame the Republicans who actually let trump escape accountability? There’s a kooky idea.

    Let me anticipate your answer to save you some time: something something James Carville purple monkey centrist dishwashers Gabba Gabba hey!

  112. 112.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    “In the end” aren’t criminal prosecutions up to judges and juries?

  113. 113.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Democrats benefitted politically from a huge grassroots wave of anti-Trump energy in 2018 and 2020. Absolutely part of that was a promise that Trump and Co would be held accountable for acts that merited impeachment, which is a political process used against a sitting President. Twice.

    It is completely reasonable for them to expect prosecutions given what has transpired.

    As I said, it was never me. I don’t think any former president will ever be prosecuted, for anything, because the United States has made a conscious decision to put an appearance of institutional strength over just about everything else. I don’t agree with that. I think the only way out is through. The carpet we shove everything under to get thru the next cycle is so lumpy no one can walk on it. They’ve been emboldened by the lack of accountability. They are more outrageously contemptious of laws and rules and norms now that they were two years ago. That will continue until it’s stopped.

  114. 114.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kathleen: I thought that’s basically what Sargent was advising Dems to do! He pointed out that McMorrow didn’t accept Republican framing and didn’t go into fact-check mode but instead explained who she is and what she believes simple human decency requires. Sargent’s point resonated with me because I’ve always thought the vast majority of so-called “woke” (and before that term was coined, “PC”) behavior could be better described as “trying not to be an asshole.”

  115. 115.

    Barry

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: 

    “there are currently about 800 on-going prosecutions, the DOJ had to hire over a hundred lawyers specifically to handle these cases, and a lot of people have gone to jail”

    Schmucks are expendable, just like Russian soldiers.

  117. 117.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Absolutely part of that was a promise that Trump and Co would be held accountable for acts that merited impeachment, which is a political process used against a sitting President. Twice.

    It is completely reasonable for them to expect prosecutions given what has transpired.

    So now the fact that Democrats Did Something! (twice) is proof that they refuse to Do Something! ?

    The carpet we shove everything under to get thru the next cycle is so lumpy no one can walk on it.

    A congressional investigation pushed through by ineffectual– and old!— centrist Nancy Pelosi that is going to hold public hearings with, I gather, lots of witnesses and 800 on-going prosecutions certainly does make for a lumpy carpet. Or something.

    I live in hope that some of the Somethings Democrats are Doing! awaken the slumbering civic conscious of the virtuously disappointed American voters.

  118. 118.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Barry: and I live in hope that one or several of those schmucks who don’t want to go to jail will flip on fancier schmucks who don’t want to go to jail and….

  119. 119.

    Villago Delenda Est

    The treasonous filth that is Michael Flynn has called for an end to all US aid to Ukraine.

  120. 120.

    Kay

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Oh, no. I was never confident of prosecutions. I don’t have that much faith in the Department of Justice. I don’t think it ‘s warranted, given past performance.

    I just think it’s entirely reasonable for Democratic voters to expect them. You can’t just fire them up cycle after cycle on this stuff and expect it never come to a reckoning. They didn’t come out in 2018 and 2020 because of infrastructure. They came out because they were anti-Trump, pro democracy, pro accountability. Emotional and passionate. Defending their country! That’s where the energy came from.

  121. 121.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud: a lot of the people who talk about Joe Biden needing to keep his promises do so in referencesto promises Joe Biden never made, some that he very specifically ran against while wining first the Democratic primary, then the general election.

    It really wasn’t that long ago….

  122. 122.

    Kay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    People don’t accept the “800 prosecutions” as accountability for powerful people because they are not.

    The gullible foot soldiers in the building aren’t powerful people. Prosecuting them and not the planners just reinforces the idea that powerful people are not and will not be held accountable, only the lowest ranks. The foot soldiers won’t cut it if the issue is credibility of institutions, trust of elected Democrats and the rule of law and I think it is.

    Maybe they don’t have a case against any of these people. That happens. But you wonder why they were impeached if that’s true. It sure seemed like some lawbreaking was going on. We talked about the lawbreaking just about every day on this blog.

  123. 123.

    Kay

    @schrodingers_cat:

    And mhy lack of faith isn’t Garland-specific. I think it’s a systemic problem in that organization. They negotiate rather than prosecute, but selectively. They don’t do a lot of negotiation with ordinary criminals. Maybe they’re outgunned, gun shy, there are a lot of theories- beats me. I just pay taxes and hope they enforce laws equally. I’d like to see that. Because I see what law enforcement does to lower level criminals and it is brutal and unforgiving and speedy- quick. They don’t get a whole lot of “special masters” or worries about the “appearance of fairness”. They get hammered.

    Don’t worry so much about the “appearance of fairness” and just make it fair as between kinds of criminals. No “appearance”. Fair.

  124. 124.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kay: and impeachment has a different standard of proof than criminal prosecutions. It’s a very different process. I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t find that very hard to grasp.

    There used to be another poster here named “Kay”, who was a lawyer. I bet she would know that.

  128. 128.

    Cameron

    @Kay: I’m not sure the investigation/prosecution of these various actors is going to be that important come this fall.  Look at everything that’s gone down since 1/6/21: the pandemic, various economic shocks (with all of the good job numbers conveniently forgotten), and now the Russian invasion of Ukraine.  These are immediate concerns and I don’t think they’ll be resolved by election time.  That’s where the focus should be (IMO), at least while we’re assured that investigations are ongoing.  Now, if the investigations are dropped, that would be a whole new kind of mess, but I don’t see that happening.  It should be a better bet to address society’s problems of today that we think we have answers to.

  129. 129.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kathleen: God if I never hear or see the word “messaging” again…

    also: “nothingburger” and “demonize” (not relevant to this thread but two words that persistently pop up in political chatter)

  131. 131.

    Kay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Tell them that. Tell them “impeachment has a different standard than prosecutions” but don’t be mad at them for expecting accountability when the whole Democratic apparatus told them democracy itself was at risk. Is it? That seems like an emergency, especially since the exact same people will be coming into power again in either 2022 and 2024.
    They did their job. They came out and voted and beat him. I have no beef with them. The rest is up to the leaders they put in power and if they don’t want that burden then maybe someone else should run.

  133. 133.

    Kay

    @Cameron:

    I generally agree. Country has mostly moved on. I’m just hard pressed to see “infrastructure” as a motivator for the people who voted in 2020 because they thought they were defending democracy.

    They were defending democracy. They did their part. I think voters did great.

  134. 134.

    Kay

    @Cameron:

    But you shouldn’t think my propensity to vote or participate in political action was or is dependent on the justice system. It’s not. I don’t rely on it. I watched no one from the Bush Adminstration ever held accountable through the justice system and I was still fully engaged in 2008.  If the game is the only way we get any accountability for people in power is through elections I’ll play that game too- but understanding that’s a narrowing range of options and next they’ll come after elections. Already are.

  135. 135.

    Another Scott

    Pay attention out there. Youngkin is not satisfied with trying to break Virginia’s government, he’s after yours too.

    This morning we find out why the Governor seems focused on creating partisan conflict instead of working with us on solutions@VASenateDems @vademocrats @FairfaxDems @PWCDems @stafford_dems https://t.co/7LbUIkPlkP

    — ??Senator Scott Surovell ?? (@ssurovell) April 21, 2022

    Points to a (warning!) Politico story.

    (Surovell is my state senator.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  136. 136.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kay:

     if they don’t want that burden then maybe someone else should run.

    Right, we should elect legislators who would find a way around Republicans obstructionism to form a (mostly) partisan committee that will conduct a high-profile investigation and issue subpoenas and release incriminating information in dribs and drabs to tease out the evidence of criminal conspiracy to commit sedition, because the doughty, civic-minded electorate will care more about that than gas prices or masking policy!

    DeMoCrAtS aRe DoInG iT wRoNg!

  137. 137.

    Geminid

    @Another Scott: The Politico article said that Youngkin’s new political committees will also target two Virginia Democratic Representatives. Their names weren’t mentioned but I assume Elaine Luria (VA-2nd) and Abigail Spanberger (VA-7th). Luria faces a very tough race in a district that is close to even as far as the 2020 Presidential vote would have gone.

  138. 138.

    Kay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    To me all of these arguments end up with the essential futility of rhetoric and passion in politics.

    I just disagree. I think a huge part of an advocates job is talking. It seems insane to me to insist that’s not true. The successful politicians on the D side- what did they have? They had the same goddammned “list of issues” all other Democrats had, they were just better at reaching and inspiring people. How is this even controversial? Good advocates are GOOD TALKERS. Words are the tool of the trade. You say persuasive things that you sincerely believe and you work to get people to hear what you say instead of “ooh, media, no one ever listens to me!” That’s the job.

    If it’s all gas prices then they don’t even have to campaign. The end is written. How would they even get better with this attitude? There’s no distinction between “he’s very good at this” compared with any random other.

  139. 139.

    Soprano2

    @Baud: I’m sure there will be zero mention of this on his show this week, but he’ll talk again about how “wokeness” is ruining the lives of comedians like him.

  140. 140.

    Cameron

    Just got a note that the FL House has joined the Senate and the Guv in yanking Disney’s special status.  Let the good times roll.

  141. 141.

    Kay

    McKay Coppins
    @mckaycoppins
    · 3h
    “Nearly half of white students admitted to Harvard between 2009 and 2014 were recruited athletes, legacy students, children of faculty and staff, or on the dean’s interest list—applicants whose parents or relatives have donated to Harvard

    I just think I would fix this is I were “Harvard”. Seems really bad. How can they defend this? It’s like an inheritance.

  142. 142.

    Kay

    @Cameron:

    Wow. Florida really is a one man dictatorship now. Ohio is increasingly corrupt and moving further and further Right but they all don’t take orders from DeWine. It’s a low standard but at least we have not become a weird authoritarian cult :)

  143. 143.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: Yet Republicans will tell us that Harvard’s real problem is using any kind of way to make sure at  least a few (undeserving in their eyes) black and brown people get admitted every year. *eyeroll* It’s insane.

  144. 144.

    PJ

    @Kay: They can defend it because those non-merit based admittees go a long way to increasing the school’s endowment.  It’s all about money.  You can argue it shouldn’t be that way, but I don’t think any Ivy is going to be shamed into giving up these kinds of admissions.

  145. 145.

    Geminid

    @Kay: Harvard must think it’s time to pull up the ladders. Out with meritocracy, in with inheritocracy. Their ethos seems to be moving in tandem with that of the New York Times, which is not at all surprising.

  146. 146.

    Cameron

    @Kay: What I find intriguing is that Florida newspapers (or some of them, anyway) are a lot more willing to take on the right wing than Our National Newpapers Of Record.  I’ve seen harder punches thrown at DeSantis & Co. by the Miami and Tampa papers than I’ve ever heard of at…..well, you know.  Democrats have a lot of problems here, but I don’t really know what they are.  Probably some of the genuine Floridians here would have more insight.

  147. 147.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Who are these hypothetical Dem voters who are at once so engaged in politics that they’re demanding trump be held accountable but so willfully disengaged from all political media that they don’t know about two impeachments and the 1/6 commission and who is actually protecting The Beast and his co-conspirators?

    I can see people not knowing what Garland’s doing because so much of “progressive” media– MSNBC, most liberal podcasts–  is wedded to the Do-Nothing Garland narrative with a fidelity that puts Queen Victoria’s devotion to Albert in the shade.

  148. 148.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    also, a whole lot of the on-line left, even some with law degrees, seem to have got bitten by the Seize Them! bug

  149. 149.

    Kay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I don’t watch any Dem media. We all watched the lawmaker in Michigan defend herself from accusations that she was a pedophile. Just words. Was she better at that than… some other people? Is that a worthwhile skill to have in politics? The ability to passionately advocate for a position?

    I think it is. Can I guarantee she’ll be reelected? No. But I bet her constituents who agree with her felt well represented and maybe most importantly defended.

  150. 150.

    Kay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I really wish you would stop saying I want them “seized”. It’s horseshit. I never once said anything of the kind. From the start of this my belief was there would no legal consequences for either Trump, his immediate family or members of Congress. That’s a consistent pattern in the United States for the last 22 years. I would be shocked if they were indicted, let alone “seized”. It would be a rather dramatic reversal of our “look forward, not back” national policy of the last 20 years.

    But I don’t blame people who have more faith in the justice system than I do for relying on it. I don’t think they should be made fun of for that.

  151. 151.

    Kay

    @Cameron:

    Agree 100%. You have real newspapers. They may save you. Ohio used to have three but now two are far Right wing and one is just gutted and low wage and sad.

    They brought down Epstein. Absolutely amazing work. I used to worry a little that they would get the reporter on that. I felt she was in some danger.

  152. 152.

    The Thin Black Duke

    I don’t have patience with the white voters in the Democratic party who are so eager to disengage because Life Isn’t Fair. No, it’s not, but you go on anyway. If people can’t even be bothered to fucking vote they can go to hell.

  154. 154.

    pmc

    @Kay: Isn’t the Ohio Congressional redistricting still up in the air? Did I miss something? Did O’Connor cave to the Republican map?

  155. 155.

    Soprano2

    @The Thin Black Duke: I don’t have patience with the Democratic voters who pout and throw a fit because they didn’t get every pony they think they were promised the minute their person gets into office. Do they think they’re going to get anything better from the other side? Then vote for them, but don’t run around hollering about how you didn’t get $50,000 of your student loan debt forgiven the second day Biden was in office so you’re going to go sit in a corner, pout, and not vote for a Democrat ever again. That’s somewhat exaggerated, but not by much.

    Voters have a right to expect things, but not unreasonable things that can’t possibly happen. Trump and his minions being arrested, tried, convicted, and thrown in jail within a year of Biden getting elected isn’t realistic. I’m frustrated by the slow pace of justice, but I also understand why it’s slow, and I’m willing to give them some time to make sure they get it right. OTOH, I totally understand the people who are disgusted with the new NY City DA, who seems to have thrown in the towel on Trump’s criminal enterprise when people with far more experience than he has say there is definitely a case to be made there. Sure does make it seem like the fix was in, doesn’t it?

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