Republicans (male and female) hate women.
They are terrified of intelligent women.
Stay outraged. Vote.
I’m off to run errands to get ready to travel. A reminder, no Kindness tonight, though I suspect we could really use it.
This is an open thread.
Reader Interactions
227Comments
Comments are closed.
Old Man Shadow
Matt Groomer Gaetz loves his women too young to have ideas or notions of personhood.
debbie
Welp, that tweet sure did it for me.
Barbara
Since I don’t know what a bumble match is I guess this wasn’t written for a Baby Boomer mother of three millennial and maybe post-millennial kids (I am not sure what the dividing line is) who has been married for 30 years. And no, I am not surprised that you hate me. I’ve known that for quite a while.
Barbara
@Old Man Shadow: Women don’t count unless he wants to fuck them. Basically, that’s the gist of that tweet.
debbie
@Barbara:
Even 14-year-olds have better microwave skills than Matt.
Old Man Shadow
@Barbara: He wants fuckdolls that are too young to realize just how disgusting , slimy, and bad at sex he is.
band gap
A third grade education would be over-educated compared for that wanker dipshit.
Kay
This is part of why I think overturning Roe will be much more profound than people realize.
This is a 1950s portrayal of women. The cultural parts of the religious and far Right are going to come right along with the loss of rights. It’s a giant step back across the board.
It says women don’t own their own bodies. To think that is going to be limited to “abortion” culturally and as far as norms is just crazy-naive. You can already see it with the Right getting rid of rape exceptions. The justification for that is women will lie about rape to get an abortion. Women are now back to all being scheming liars. To think that attitude is limited to just the narrow issue of abortion is nuts.
Dangerman
This is a satire account, right?
No? Damn. What a piece of shit. Why doesn’t he just say barefoot and pregnant?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I see Gaetz is always thinking of the kids .
scav
What a very odd man.
And there are so many of them.
scav
@Dangerman: He just the wimminz back in their box. The box being a coffin.
Steeplejack
@Barbara:
I had to look it up, because I wondered whether a “bumble match” was some hipster thing like a “key bump.” Turns out Bumble is a “location-based dating app.”
bbleh
Is that what they mean by “a cry for help?”
Surely he doesn’t think it’s gonna work as a pickup line. Or maybe he does …
sukabi
I hope his timeline is filled with folks asking him if his current girlfriend is of legal age and how he’s going to feel about all the child support he’ll be responsible for since the girls he’s banging won’t be able to take care of his little deposits….
Kay
@Barbara:
Unloved, bookish spinster jokes! From the 1950’s! Look for “jokes” about wife beating next.
Along with the far Right’s cultural and religious LAWS, you will also be getting the far Right’s cultural and religious NORMS. It’s a package. And it won’t matter if you live in a “blue state” that still has the full set of liberty rights for women. This is what you’ll be swimming in nationally.
Captain C
@Barbara: So, no one over 18, then.
Jeffro
Truth.
They know that their position is untenable, so instead of re-thinking it or backing off, they double down and now want to make NO exceptions.
It’s similar to their approach w/ being anti-Covid-vax. That’s silly – it was proven both effective and safe, and many institutions have mandated vaccinations for decades – so instead of backing down, they double down and shift to “well, let’s make all vaccines optional”.
Jeffro
Btw Jennifer Rubin has a very Balloon-Juice-adjacent post up: let’s quit calling it the “culture wars”. It’s religious tyranny.
Hear, hear. We ought to call it that from now on and frame it that way.
sab
@Kay: If you hadn’t been out of the house in public you never would have been raped. Taliban thought processes right here in America.
cain
Keep talking Gaetz – keep throwing fuel in the fire.
I want to see an epic blowback
Has MTG weighed yet?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I think the correct question to ask these conservatard wankers is “So what happens when you accidentally knock your daughter up during the traditionals after the Promise Keeper Dance? A dude needs to know, this Roe ban is scary for a dude. No reason to saddle a guy for life for a simple mistake” Put it terms they can understand.
cain
@Jeffro: It’s pretty straight up tyranny. But the press loves to talk about it as cultural wars – you know, just like war on christmas. Both sides!
Wait till women are imprisoned for their body having the gall of self aborting without asking the brain.
JAFD
Am thinking of putting up an ad on a matchmaking service: “I’m not a foot fetishist, but I’m still looking for a sole mate …”
Anyway, printer/scanner/copier machines, for ‘home office’, in the $200-$250 range, probably one of Epson-Canon-HP-Brotehr; recommendations ? discommendations ? thots in general ??
cain
That’s what blue states are for! Just take the kid on a lovely father-daughter trip to Oregon.
Tony Jay
Why is a known paedophile pretending to know what grown women think about anything?
It’s almost like he wants post-pubescent females to think he’s an obnoxious shitforbrahhhhhhh…. now I get it.
scav
@cain: Or, they’ll say that the bitch getting pregnant is just god’s sign you’re dating older women.
trollhattan
Rapist says “what?”
It’s performance art that requires no rehearsal, since it’s not actually a performance but who he is/they are.
Dangerman
Time to go find this assholes Bumble account; it must be something. Isn’t Bumble more of a hookup site than a dating site anyway?
Derelict
These women protesting the overturning of abortion rights, they’re just not getting laid! Of course, if they WERE getting laid, they’d be sluts who don’t deserve the right to an abortion.
Why isn’t Matt Gaetz in jail? Why hasn’t he been indicted? Criminal justice in this country is seriously broken.
Barbara
@Kay: In the 1950s most of those spinsters had only a few professions open to them, so a lot of their lives were more difficult not because they lacked a husband or were necessarily pining for family life, but because they lacked money to live the way they wanted. I had six great aunts who never married. I think at least one of them regretted it, but most made their peace with it since they had 30 nieces and nephews and enough money to travel and enjoy life. It helped that a few of them began working for AT&T when it was a start up and were given stock options as part of their comp.
In my experience, men are much more likely to be anxious that women don’t need them, not the other way around. AFAIK, there is no female parallel to Incel culture.
satby
Well Beau of the Fifth Column has been on fire on this, and here’s another one I thought should be seen. Takes a bit to get where he’s going, but very worth the trip.
Kay
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
The liberal argument is bigger than that. IMO it’s that women made a series of gains over decades and each piece is part of that. Abortion is a big piece because what it’s really about is do women have bodily autonomy and the agency to make decisions as adults. If they don’t, that ripples, into the broader culture. It has to.
You don’t just get their laws. You get their broader cultural norms that inform and flow out of the laws. It’s a set. Liberal- liberal. Conservative- conservative. You can’t have far Right laws AND or BUT liberal, modern cultural norms for women. This is not an available option.
Hoodie
@Dangerman: The Bumble reference is also an anti-feminist dig, i.e., all feminists are sad, lonely and unattractive and use a dating app that allows women to control contact.
germy
Interesting that in this day and age a republican can describe someone as being “over-educated”.
There’s a point where there’s too much education? I guess women only need enough learning to know how to cook and maybe type.
StringOnAStick
@Dangerman: I’m not sure, but I do know of two marriages from Bumble matches. One was of a couple that went through an ectopic pregnancy early on (with an IUD), but that was in CO and two years ago so she wasn’t forced to die in agony because of it.
She regrets that at the time of the emergency surgery that she didn’t demand a tubal ligation, but she was under a lot of stress and the hospital probably would have refused by calling it a decision made in the heat of the moment. I wonder if the coming overturn of Roe will lead to a noticeable uptick in people opting for permanent birth control?
Starfish
@Old Man Shadow: Just because young women are not into him, he is assuming they are not into anyone.
SFAW
@Old Man Shadow:
What, no love for his “son” Nestor?
CaseyL
That’s Florida – or, I should say, that’s the South. And possibly the Christianist Midwest.
I went to college in Florida lo these many years ago, back in the 1970s. The attitude that women were commodities/playthings/not actual persons was commonplace – among students, particularly. Including the women students themselves. There was a big honking difference between those of us who were there to get an education and those who were there to “get their Mrs. Degree.”
Kay
@Barbara:
I think a lot of Right leaning women think they can have these restrictive laws around women that don’t strictly apply to their situation while keeping the modern cultural norms they value. Because of course they value them. They want careers and to buy property and to be able to divorce and to be able to be left alone to pursue whatever.
I don’t think they can have both. I think the progressive attitudes and cultural changes for women both informed and rippled out from the legal progress and the same thing will happen in reverse.
Liberal- liberal, conservative- conservative. They get the Right wing legal code they’re also getting the Right wing cultural view of women.
Motivated Seller
Imagine the wrath that would be bearing down on the Supreme Court at this very moment if it reversed the right to bear arms (2008) decision. Now be that angry.
Leto
@Barbara: you’re saying the same thing Suzanne frequently talks about, and data over the last twenty years (in college education) shows: women don’t need men. They’re more educated, higher earning, more discriminating, and less willing to put up with worthless sacks of shit. They’re also more willing to live a single life because they find it more rewarding than being saddled with a troglodyte for life. And it’s for this that the Republicans are continuing to try to burn the whole country down.
SFAW
@StringOnAStick:
Well, considering the odds that Griswold will fall to Alito’s “traditionalist” view …
Semi-related: Has CHIEF JUSTICE “(No) Balls and Strikes” ROBERTS unleashed the Marshal of the Court to find out whether Ginni Thomas’s corrupt practices also include her husband’s “work”? And will the CHIEF JUSTICE do anything about it if the Marshal finds them?
Barbara
@Kay: They continually fail to connect the dots on this. They don’t believe it.
SFAW
@Kay:
Are you suggesting that conservative women might not want to remain barefoot and pregnant, and that their only purpose in life is something other than pleasing their man/men? I’m shocked to see you suggest such a thing.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Kay:
Its not just the overturn of Roe.
Its that the methodology set forth in that opinion is one that leads to monstrous results and which, like Dred Scott and the necessary accompaniment, the Fugitive Slave Act, lead to a savage civil war.
Ironically, it’s really the same ideology, just removed in time.
What happens when Texas decides it can prosecute a California doctor for performing an abortion on someone Texas seems a citizen of Texas, and demands extradition? Or what about when Mississippi passes a law prohibiting pregnant women from traveling out of the state for any purpose due to potential for fetal harm? Or what about when Alabama decides that a criminal statute declaring sex toys to be obscene allows it to prosecute a New York web retailer for shipping them in?
The conflagration awaits, it will simply take a small spark. My only hope is that Scam Alito, Ginni Thomas, Amy Barrett and the like are still alive as it starts, are around long enough to see the money and food stop and cause them personal misery.
SFAW
@Leto:
JHC, don’t say that too loud. I’m worried that Mrs. SFAW will see that, and then I’m done-for.
MisterForkbeard
@CaseyL: I knew a few women in college in the early aughts who were there explicitly to get their MRS degree. One was the girlfriend of my first college roommate, and I got to know a few more through her.
Perhaps not surprisingly, they were all some flavor of evangelical christian and most were getting a degree in ‘Child Development’ or some flavor of religion. Interestingly enough, the one that was getting a degree in comparative religion ultimately decided that she was an actual person with goals and ideas and dropped out of both the MRS goal and evangelical christianity in general.
@Leto: Well, “higher-earning” except for the whole pay-gap thing. But I get your point, and you’re correct: Women don’t NEED men for a future the same way they did 50 or 100 years ago. They have options, and don’t have to rely on getting a good marriage. Good for them. Bad for Republicans and idiot dudes.
Kay
@Barbara:
Because a lot of high profile Right wing women tell them over and over they can have both.
Barrett is one of them. In Barrett’s mind the life that she enjoys, where she was able to access education, become a judge, all the things she has done, sprang out of the soil or something.
Those were progressive laws and norms she relied on. She’s a conservative but her life would not be possible if conservatives had been dominating law and culture for the last 50 years. Liberals did that.
When they dominate law they will also dominate culture.
SFAW
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:
Although I can understand the sentiment (and the pre-condition(s) for the statement), I would much rather read that they — and a whole host of other Traitors (Rupert/Lachlan, Moscow Mitch, Shill Barr, the list is very long) — suffered painful deaths, due to some mis-diagnosed malady, and pretty effing soon. The country and world would be much better off.
Ruckus ??
@Barbara:
I’m not sure he thinks that highly of them.
His view of the world, like all those like him, is that he’s the top of the heap. And yes it’s a heap of shit. They need the world to be dramatically worse so that they look better. The idea of actually being better never occurs to them. They need to put everyone else down because they have no idea how to raise themselves up to the level of human. They are the kind of men that dogs hate.
Betsy
not a coincidence that gaetz looks exactly like Beavis
Leto
@SFAW: I’m constantly in fear that Avalune will discover how pedestrian I am, after 26 years, and relegate me to the single room divorce dad apartment complex. It’s why I constantly update my cooking skills to ensure my “services” are still needed :)
Bupalos
@Jeffro: Absolutely.
This particular engineered, anti-democratic, anti-freedom, anti-American, pro-theocracy decision happens to also be virulently anti-women. But there’s a virulently anti-(X) decision waiting in the Christo-fascist wings for just about every X you want to name.
This isn’t primarily about “a woman’s right to choose.” It’s about America’s ability to hold its place in the free world and every citizen’s right to be free. They’ll pick us off group by group if we don’t remember how American democracy was designed to work.
MisterForkbeard
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: Very much doubt this happens, but if it did then the Supreme Court Republicans are going to be just fine. They’re all rich, entitled assholes who live in an enclave and are currently performatively AGHAST that someone ‘leaked’ something they’d openly talked about doing and had been explicitly promised by all the politicians that nominated them.
They’re the most privileged people on the planet. They’ll never want for anything and they know it.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I’d argue it’s the other way around, modern culture demands women participate in public life and that means they have to have these rights to do that. This dimwits expect to what, crash the economy by driving women back to the kitchen?
But these dimwits won’t care until the face eating leopard is eating their face .
Peale
Har har har. Feminists protesters are ugly and don’t need abortions anyway because who’d have sex with them. I bet they don’t shave like women should. Amirite, boys?
Now let me go into my 10 minute riff about how you can’t tell the girls from the boys these days. And how Asian Women can’t drive.
God, the right wing humor themes just never gets old.
CaseyL
@MisterForkbeard: I will never know exactly why I never wanted kids for as long as I can remember (lots of possible reasons, though!), or why my attitude towards marriage has always been kind of “meh” (ditto!). I mean, nowadays, I can count off the reasons quite logically, but I’ve felt that way since long before I could logically explain why.
Whatever those causative factors are, I’m grateful to them.
MisterForkbeard
@Leto: This is my strategy. I cook dinner for MissusForkbeard and the two littlebeards (moustaches?) most nights, and along with actually respecting and loving my wife it looks like it might keep me here. :)
MisterForkbeard
@CaseyL: I had/have more than a few friends who just decided they never want kids. Ever. And most decided in their early 20s or late teens – just not something they wanted to do. And good for them.
Granted, I also have a few friends who felt the same way and then changed their minds after they’d been married for a couple years and several of their friends had children.
But thank god they all had the choice, you know?
Leto
@MisterForkbeard: exactly. I think about how advertising has shifted over the past 50 years. Women were basically treated as a home appliance, and marketed as such. Now? Luxury vacations, high end products, men/husbands are regularly portrayed as clueless oafs (much like women were). They have disposable income, higher aspirational goals, they want the finer things in life. It’s almost like they’re… human!
Doc Sardonic
@cain: I have an Epson Eco Tank printer. Works very well, uses bulk ink(no cartridges), and after 3+ years of use only now need to top off the black ink tank.
Leto
@MisterForkbeard: remember if they can’t find you handsome, they can at least find you handy. (Red Green Show)
Steeplejack
@JAFD:
Slightly above your price range, but the Wirecutter likes the HP OfficeJet Pro 9015e (about $290 at Amazon).
Ruckus ??
@Kay:
Along with the far Right’s cultural and religious LAWS, you will also be getting the far Right’s cultural and religious NORMS. It’s a package. And it won’t matter if you live in a “blue state” that still has the full set of liberty rights for women. This is what you’ll be swimming in nationally.
This is an extremely valid point. These shits do not want to live in this century because it makes them far less than the bottom of the shit pile that they are. They can’t conceive of making themselves better, of belonging to the human race, they are special, but not in the way they think they are. That’s why they have to put time in reverse and go backwards a couple hundred years, so they have any relevance whatsoever. They are shit and they know it, and they think if they actually have to live in the world they do, they will be the dog shit people scrape off the bottom of their shoes. And they are right.
MisterForkbeard
@Leto: Funnily enough my WIFE is the one that assembles and repairs things in this house (outside of a few things that just require brute strength), which I handle cooking, kiddo hobbies, and the full-time job.
It’s a fun reversal, especially for someone that grew up watching Red Green and knows all about the uses of duct tape.
debbie
@satby:
Thanks for sharing. Sure hope he’s right. The ability to rat someone out has me really worried.
Jeffro
Interrupting this outrage-themed open thread with a minor point of outrage: my mom just texted me and my brother to complain about gas prices (hmm…Exxon $9.3B in profit just last quarter…but I suspect she will of course blame President Biden) and food prices.
It’s the latter that has me floored, but in kind of a “Price Is Right” drill-down kind of way. She’s claiming that cans of Progresso soup are going for over $4 in NoVA. WHUT. I’ve never paid $2 for a can of soup in my life – Progresso, Chunky, you name it people – not even in our current Demofascist-induced Omega Recession Extraordinaire. $4 a can? For Progresso? Who does she think she’s trying to fool?
Wait…maybe it’s a Whole Foods thing? I don’t know, I never go there. Is this even remotely within the scope of reality, people who do? Because at Harris Teeter and Kroger, Chunky and Progresso are usually 3 for $5!
/minor outrage over
/ =)
Kay
Scary to read physicians weighing in on the 1931 Michigan law that goes into effect if the far Right federal judges overturn Roe, as they are going to:
Roe was informed by medical experts because the justices at the time wanted medical input on a medical decision.
Alito sneers at that in his opinion/diatribe. They’ll be using common law from 1777 and their own far Right religious beliefs to ground laws now. “Ectopics with cardiac activity? What?”
citizen dave
@Doc Sardonic: Same experience for me with an Epson tank printer, around 2 years old. Excellent so far, though I will say I had NO printer for a few years, learned to live without one, so rarely print. Checked the black ink yesterday, and it is still very high. I use the scanner part as much, it’s fine.
I think it was a costco in store purchase. In fact it is EPSON EC850 (ET-2760 series).
trollhattan
@Jeffro: It’s the whole prices shoot up like a rocket, float downward on a parachute thing practiced by retailers everywhere. And if you gotta buy gas (or food) you gotta buy it whether you like the price or not. Great for profits!
mali muso
@Kay: Utterly terrifying. I went through two miscarriages, both resolved with D&Cs (abortions!), one of which was an ectopic pregnancy. Remembering how vulnerable and emotionally gutted I felt during that time and imagining being a potential criminal suspect? It’s monstrous.
Peale
@Kay: Wisconsin will be the same. Law passed in 1849.
Why would anyone become an OB in these states? Best just to not see patients prior to delivery. Will make it easier then having to have conversations about how they are most likely going to die and there’s nothing you are personally allowed to do about it.
Torrey
@satby: I rarely disagree with Beau of the Fifth Column on anything, but in this case, I’m afraid he’s being way too optimistic. The ones with money will assume they can get past the law, one way or another, and the ones without will vote the way they always have. Thinking about what your life would have been like if you had taken another path takes imagination a lot of people don’t care to exert–it can be an unpleasant exercise, for one thing. And I doubt they’ll suddenly see reproductive rights as the reason to change their vote, especially those who have been trained to think of trouble in the form of bad partners, unwanted pregnancies, and worse as part of what you get for being female. Which is kind of the stock-in-trade for the religious groups that have been pushing the repeal. (Sorry to sound so glum, but I am. )
trollhattan
@Doc Sardonic:
That’s the direction we went and I’ll vouch for the concept, because by now we would have spent the printer’s entire price in little ink cartridges but I’m still going through the original set of ink bottles.
My gripe is it doesn’t do black black, text is dark gray and not as contrasty as I prefer. Maybe they’re improving in that regard.
New Deal democrat
A week or so ago I wrote that the Democrats have a perfect “elevator pitch” for the midterms if they are serious about winning:
“Hold the House, plus
Two seats in the Senate =
Everything passes.”
Looks like Josh Marshall is on board:
“If the plan is to use Roe as the mobilization tool to hold the Congress in 2022 I guarantee you the way to do it is for the President to say right away that if the Democrats hold the House and pick up (for the sake of conversation we’ll say) two Senate seats that next January they’ll pass a law codifying Roe as it existed circa January 2021. That makes everything crystal clear. None of the opaque nonsense about what ‘the Democrats’ can do if they’re ‘in control.’ Control of the House and two additional senators. That mobilizes people. That gives a specific goal. It makes a clear promise. It can even be reduced to some simple catch phrases: ‘The House plus two.’
“Again, the numbers might be slightly different. Definitely come up with a better catch phrase. But it has to be clear. It needs to be a specific commitment from the President and the congressional leadership.”
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/if-youre-serious-about-making-roe-the-midterm-issue
Bupalos
@Doc Sardonic: I’ve got an epson xp-15000 I think it is, it’s 13″ wide, prints beautifully and reliably, and the best part is you can download a bit of 3rd party firmware that “unchips” it so you can refill the carts. And you refill them just by turning the cart upside down and squirting it in the pad until it’s full again, you don’t do anything to the cart. It’s no harder than an eco tank to refill.
Peale
@Leto: Well, they actually don’t have to beg their husbands to increase their allowances. Many I hear have their own checking accounts and businesses. Was different when the average housewife could be expected to have to ask hubby for $5 more a week to buy better detergent and maybe some make up.
stinger
“Dear” Matt Gaetz,
It could be 100%, and what difference would that make? Can white people not protest on behalf of Black people’s rights? Can straight/cis not protest on behalf of gay/trans rights? Can people of European descent not protest on behalf of Native American/Asian/Pacific Islander rights? Can men not protest on behalf of women? Can people not in a relationship not protest on behalf of people in a relationship?
Signed,
Ura Nasshole
Mike in NC
Voted in the primary this morning and it took roughly three minutes to get in and out. Dem ballot had two candidates for NC House, about six for US House, and at least a dozen for US Senate. I went with former SC Judge Beasley since she has the most name recognition. All the court clerk and judge and school board candidates were Republican.
Ruckus ??
@JAFD:
Home office says work related stuff to me. So your price range sounds about right. I use the one I have a Cannon that works great, cost less than $100, just for home stuff, it isn’t the fastest thing out there, only does standard paper size. If you need legal size or a bunch faster I’d say your price range is good. The current version is the PIXMA TR4720 – Best Buy $119. For better I’d recommend the PIXMA G3260 $229 – it’s faster with bigger ink cartridges.
Soprano2
@Kay: Bill Maher will be in heaven, he can resurrect all his misogynist jokes now!
burnspbesq
@Jeffro:
I never understood why supporters of women’s autonomy didn’t frame abortion as an Establishment Clause issue.
Of course, the Catholic majority on the Supremes are about to pretend that the Establishment Clause means something other than what it clearly says, starting with the case of the high school football coach.
Ruckus ??
@stinger:
He’s also a simpleton so you can’t leave him coded signatures, you have to spell it out –
Matt, you are an asshole.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Jeffro:
I’ve been saying that for years. Lost one persona at Twitter over it, coz I got into it with some NARAL stans about the failed messaging and how Roe was really a case for everyone across a wide panoply. I could practically hear them shrieking “MY CHOICE, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO SAY, EVEN IN FAVOR” from where I sat, they swarmed so hard.
MisterForkbeard
@New Deal democrat: I like it and I hope we go with it.
“The House Plus Two” gets you women’s rights, voting protections, and a bunch of other shit we can’t do now because of Manchin and Sinema. Get it done.
Soprano2
@Kay: In Susan Faludi’s “Backlash”, she talks about this. There is an absolute disconnect between how the high-powered women in the anti-abortion world think about themselves and how they think about all other women. She talks about the absolute hypocrisy of them having a career travelling around talking to women about staying home and not having a career! She said they think about themselves as “honorary men”, that they are built in such a way that they can handle it but of course in their telling the “average” woman cannot handle such a thing at all!
Quiltingfool
First of all, Kay, if you’re reading this, I value your insights so much, and am grateful you share them!
Second – I got to thinking about the removal of rights. When people don’t believe the law will protect and/or support them, what comes next? Vigilantism. Taking the law into your own hands. Will that happen, I don’t know. Take an example Kay gave yesterday: a woman is raped and as a result, becomes pregnant. She will not be allowed a choice, she will be legally required to give birth. Then, she may have custody battles with her rapist and be tied to him through the child. The woman knows the law will neither protect her nor support her. So, she may decide not to report the rape and take care of the rapist herself, in a lethal manner. Could happen, doesn’t need to happen, but this “Supreme” Court is okay playing with fire. People will seek justice, but I think we can agree, we don’t really want vigilante justice.
ian
@SFAW:
The marshal is going to find that Virginia Thomas was behind this leak and then we will never hear about it again.
Jeffro
so Kay you’re saying that specific term is NOT in the Constitution?
(along with ‘9 justices’ and ‘filibuster’)
MagdaInBlack
@Soprano2: As I recall, from Handmaids Tale, Serena and the other wives thought much the same. Since that tale is obviously an instruction manual, I suspect those women are in for a wee bit of a surprise.
JPL
@Jeffro: A six pack of Progresso Soup would make a nice mother day’s gift. just sayin
Soprano2
@CaseyL: I’m the same, I have never wanted to have kids. I’d hold a baby and my reaction was “how soon can I give him/her back to mom/dad?” It was never “Oooh, I want one of these!” I saw how much having a child changed someone’s life forever, and have always thought you should really want that in order to make the changes worth it.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@burnspbesq:
I’ve said this for years.
They were really wrapped up in “choice” framing, and this includes the living embodiment of egotistical tunnel vision wrapped up in a weird collar that was RBG. Part of me suspects that the “we women are going to go it alone and declare this issue to be ours only” is a byproduct of coming from the environment of first wave feminism and perceiving that there were no allies or people who might have aspirations which were also covered by Roe.
Quiltingfool
Need some social media advice! I’m thinking about featuring my quilts on Instagram – I noticed in one of the posts a couple of weeks ago that someone used Instagram to sell their art works. So, I did a tiny bit of research, and saw Instagram Business.
Anyone here use that? I’m thinking I’d like an easily accessible place for people to buy or order quilts besides Etsy. I won’t close my Etsy shop, because I think it protects the buyer and seller. But I do want to give buyers an option, plus I can showcase my quilts so if someone wants a custom quilt, they can see many examples. When I sell a quilt on Etsy, it’s gone, no one can see it anymore.
Appreciate the advice!
Jeffro
@trollhattan: I’m just saying…she knows I do the family grocery shopping here. She knows $4/can is BS.
I’m thinking Fox News ran some segment featuring a Bay-area Whole Foods or something. “$4/can!!!1!” Well, yeah. But here in central VA, Progresso and Chunky are still 3 for $5.
Listen to me…just typing that nonsense aged me a year. The only think older than complaining about soup prices is complaining about the people who complain about soup prices. = )
Jeffro
@JPL: you read my mind! And what a unique gift basket that would be…
…for NEXT Mothers’ Day, that is. This one’s too close for her to take it in a funny way. I’ve made a note for next year, though ;)
JustRuss
@Soprano2: “I deserve more because I’m special!” is a pretty common belief among conservatives, male or female.
Kay
@mali muso:
I knew the miscarriage issue would come to the fore almost immediately when the laws went it, because it’s a very different thing to not have an abortion clinic in Alabama (access) and a law banning abortion.
The abortion bans affect the treatment of pregnancy complications. The lack of an abortion clinic but no law banning abortions does not.
This is a brand new pregnancy regulation scheme, drafted by people who were exclusively focused on voluntary abortions. 25% of pregnancies end in miscarriage. It’s huge, millions and millions of women. and it bangs right up against “abortions laws”. They didn’t address it at all. \
Well, we’re gonna find out how the abortion laws intersect with miscarriages. On an emergency basis.
Mart
@Jeffro: Christian version of Sharia law.
Quiltingfool
@CaseyL: Whew, glad to see another person who didn’t want to have children! When people ask me why I didn’t have children (an incredibly rude question) I tell them that I never had a desire to have children. I never, ever, have felt that strong biological urge. Don’t know why, don’t care, it is what it is!
When I was 16 years old, I remember my cousin saying she could hardly wait to have kids. My thought was, “Nope, I have no want to do that!” And I’ve never changed my mind.
Kay
@mali muso:
And no one had to address it. They regulated miscarriages the same and to the same extent as any other medical procedure, because abortion was legal. But now they’re all potential (banned) abortions. They go in that basket, that regulatory scheme.
I just don’t think they have any idea what they have unleashed. And it’s going to be common law? Case by case basis? So the infinite variety of medical complications and issues in pregnancy will go to a county court to determine if each one belongs in the “pregnancy treatment” basket which is lawful or the “abortion” basket which is not? Madness.
matt
Gaetz would look good with an apple in his mouth.
stinger
@Ruckus ??: Thanks for the tip!
Cacti
The reason Republicans don’t support women’s bodily autonomy is because they don’t think women are fully human. Women’s role in their world is to be birthing vessels for male progeny.
And yes, the people who feel this way include Republican women who have internalized the sexism against them.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:
My reading of American history suggests that we should have had a civil war at some point during the 1960s or early 1970s. We were about due for one. If you count the US Revolutionary War as a civil war (which in some respects it was, although we prefer to gloss over the numbers and importance of the pro-British American Tories in presenting the sanitized history of that era) then it looks like the Anglo-American polity is convulsed with a violent military conflict roughly every 80-120 years or so.
At this point in the early 21st Century we are long overdue for a civil war. But we have not had an open and frank military conflict since 1865. As a result American politics has become the continuation of civil war by other means, conversely of Clausewitz.
It would be a horrifying event almost beyond imaging to have another war break out in a technologically modern, nuclear armed state – we can’t allow that to ever happen. But we need some other, safer way to resolve the problems of a society divided by cultural forces which are in implacable opposition to one another. Right now we are Lincoln’s Divided House.
There are times when I think that the USA may at some point break up into 2 or more different nation-states. In the short term that would not resolve the Red-Blue divide, as demographically that divide breaks along lines of population density and urbanization at a fine grained level within each individual US state. But in the longer term migration would come into play – eventually we might become like West Germany (Blue) and East Germany (Red) – two nation states sharing a common language but coexisting side by side in a condition of armed hostility and antipathy, with wildly divergent social and political systems, but at least with a degree of coherence and consistency in governing philosophy within each of those nations which eludes us today, and people voting with their feet regarding which system they prefer to live under.
RaflW
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Relatedly, gay men don’t own our bodies either, in conservative circles. About the most ‘tolerant’ they can muster is to ‘love the sinner’ … if he’s abstinent.
I’d expect Lawrence v. Texas to be high on the list of attacks, too. Do gay people in the South understand what’s coming? Do any of us?!
Kay
@mali muso:
I feel like Roberts knows this. He understands that if they breach that fence that Roe set up- “HERE, you cannot go” he’s going to be faced with deciding whether an ectopic pregnancy with heart activity and a D and C was lawful treatment for a miscarriage or an abortion. And soon.
Cacti
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: I’ve been saying for a while now that the next step for the regressives is a 21st century equivalent of the Fugitive Slave Act, for pregnant women trying to escape to a free state.
Peale
@Kay: Hippocratic oath aside, with doctors having to constantly appear in court to justify their actions, how long before they just stop delivering babies. Pregnant woman walks into your office. Sorry, no appointment. I’m a pediatrician only now. Maybe the right wing’s crisis pregnancy centers can actually deal with pregnancy crises? But given our culture’s almost unending appetite to put people on parole and in prison, why not just set up pregnancy confinement centers. Get pregnant. Spend 8 months locked up to make sure that your miscarriage is a legitimate one.
Cacti
@RaflW: I suspect that any gay person living in MAGAland knows they’re a potential target at all times.
WeimarGerman
deleted duplicate of earlier comment.
Martin
Interesting voter outreach effort there by Gaetz. Hope it catches on.
Peale
@RaflW: Yep. Kind of laughing about those people wondering what will happen to existing marriages in Texas when they are overturned. Well, they’ll shortly after that get rid of Bowers, too, and since you’ve got your name on an invalid paper basically admitting to being a sodomite with that man you live with…
So when they test the limits of Bowers, can Texas put me on a wanted list or ban me from travelling to Texas? In the past 30 years, we’ve been used to be open even in hostile places. But the idea that they are just going to allow us to go back in the closet after telling everyone who we are…well, that’s just precious hope thought. The idea that it was never enforced. LOL. It also hasn’t been so easy to find us.
Fortunately, ONLY 13 states still had sodomy laws on the books. Most of the states with GOP control will actually need to pass laws.
CaseyL
@Quiltingfool: I’ve never understood that either, why anyone would be in a hurry to give up their autonomy and independence like that. I realize intellectually that most women are happy to do so (or there’d be a lot fewer babies!) but have never understood it on a gut level.
But autonomy and independence have always been my lodestars. I am very well aware that’s not true of others. Maybe most others.
patrick II
For Matt (why isn’t he in jail yet?) Gaetz, an overeducated woman is one who can count above 18.
Matt McIrvin
@Peale:
Once they get Congress and the White House back, they could always pass a federal one and send the G-men to the blue states! Or maybe a force of unlabeled little green men consisting of redeployed ICE agents and prison guards. Just start with the marriage registry, it’s easy.
(This is the kind of thing that I’d imagine starting an actual civil war. Provided we care enough. We didn’t seem to care enough when ICE went after everyone undocumented in the blue states.)
RaflW
@Kay: Women, and families too, who are in the immediate moment of loss from a miscarriage are going to also face investigations from abortion police in some states.
It’s already clear that these talibangelicals disregard consensus medical opinion, as evidenced by their total refusal to accept that major med and psych groups vocally support gender-affirming care for teens.
So even a medical record from a doctor may not satisfy the uterus inspectors that a miscarriage was simply the way of things.
It seems utterly intolerable. I guess what remains to be seen is if the threat of state violence (aka arrest, prison, tolerated goons) can enforce the coming Gilead.
MisterDancer
No, no it won’t. And we know, because of the Black Migration in the 20th Century. That was estimated to be 6 million Black folx, and that still only put a dent in the Black populations in the American South. If migration was a valid option to resolve this, it certainly would have been done during the decades Jim “Blueprint for the Nazis” Crow was in effect.
And yet, here we are, today.
Mobility for Americans has not increased that much since then. Y’all need to put away this dream that you can just saw off The South, the Bad Parts of America. We — and I include myself, as a Black Man born and raised in the South — cannot pretend, for a moment, that everyone Left Behind in these scenarios becomes someone else’s problem.
MagdaInBlack
@Quiltingfool: Here’s another one. No desire for children. Love my friends kids and now their grandkids, as did my husband, but no interest in having our own.
burnspbesq
When libs and women start showing up in numbers at gun-safety classes, we’ll see serious gun-control laws—with existing owners grandfathered, of course.
RaflW
@Quiltingfool: After I came out, my mom (who was generally quite accepting, if uninformed) said “Now that you don’t want children…” and there was some sort of question.
I replied, like “whoa, whoa, I knew as probably an 8th grader that I didn’t want kids.” Didn’t come out till age 24, so the kid thing was definitely separate. And I let her know that I had gay friends who were or very much wanted to parent. I really haven’t ever thought the two were at all connected for me.
(That said, I can remember some delightful times with my niece when she was little and we’d cuddle. And baby feet? What is it about them that’s sooo damn cute! But being able to hand her back to mom, dad, or the grands after 15 mins? Phew! Yes, thank you.)
NotMax
@JAFD
Do you require color printing? If not an absolute necessity, suggest going with a monochrome laser unit.
@Jeffrio
Routinely around $3 here, give or take a coin or two, when not on sale. When that happens, if one doesn’t show up on the first day the weekly flyer is active, one is SOL because shelves become bare faster than one can say Queen Liliuokalani. Has been that price for years (haven’t checked whether it has gone up further in recent months)
Peale
@Matt McIrvin: My guess is that when they get the trifecta is get us out of the military and fired from government jobs as security risks, since there’s no amount of time that will pass that will not allow them to flame up the old past panics. I’m guessing they might not put us in jail. But they will have some kind of national sex offender registry that will make us all have to move 2000 miles from any school or playground.
My guess that they’ll employ the SO registry as the primary tool on the state level. Those registries are popular and there isn’t a lot of pushback against expanding them or lobbying to remove anyone from them. We see how easily voters can be convinced that we shouldn’t be allowed around children in Florida. We can think they only mean “in schools” but they really mean everywhere.
geg6
Haven’t read other comments yet, but why would Matty here think that old, dried up cat ladies who sit at home alone every night need abortions?
Peale
@geg6: They don’t need them. They’re just jealous of real women who can have children so much that they want no one to have babies.
RaflW
@Matt McIrvin & @burnspbesq:
I am so loath to support the grubby and money-drenched gun industry. But it may indeed be time to build cadres of licensed and proficient liberal gun owners.
I’d read a while back that a native tribe was working to buy out one of the gun companies. I don’t think it’s happened, alas, but if it did, I’d want to be right in line to make a purchase after the sale goes thru.
Anyway
@Kay:
Where is the AMA and Ob-Gyns raising the alarm about this – how it will affect treating pregnancy complications? Are they too afraid of Rethugs too?
EarthWind&Fire (formerly bluegirlfromwyo)
@Jeffro: She must have gone to Giant in Fairfax, where Progresso is selling at $4 per 19 ounce can (normal size soup cans are 10.5 ounces)
Heidi Mom
@Quiltingfool: Same here. I remember driving past a McDonald’s when in my early 30s, and there was obviously a kid’s birthday party being held there because a lot of kids and their mothers were going in, and I thought “They didn’t get me. That’s not my fate. I escaped.” 40-or-so years later and I still remember thinking that thought.
RaflW
@Anyway/Rashmi: FWIW, they have taken a position. As I mentioned upthread on a related topic, the GOP doesn’t give a fig about major medical establishments. Too bad the hippocratic oath means that docs still have to give a fig about guys like Abbot.
—
SEP 1, 2021
Statement attributable to: Gerald E. Harmon, MD
President, American Medical Association
“The American Medical Association (AMA) is deeply disturbed by Texas SB8 and disappointed by today’s inaction from the U.S. Supreme Court allowing this egregious law to go into effect. This significant overreach not only bans virtually all abortions in the state, but it interferes in the patient-physician relationship and places bounties on physicians and health care workers simply for delivering care. Opening the door to third-party litigation against physicians severely compromises patient access to safe clinical care.
“This new law is a direct attack on the practice of medicine and patient reproductive health outcomes. As physicians and leaders in medicine, we urge our nation’s highest court to take action immediately and stop the implementation of Texas SB8. Failure to do so places physicians’ clinical judgement and patient access to safe care in dire peril.”
FelonyGovt
Just anecdata, but this may be getting through to the “normies”. Several Facebook friends who had NEVER posted anything political before, even through the Trump years, have now shared their pro-choice views at great length.
I’m hoping against hope that this travesty will be a motivating factor that gets our side off their butts and motivated to vote.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@MisterDancer:
My speculation was descriptive, nor normative. I’m not outlining what I want to happen, or what I think should happen. rather what I think may be likely to happen.
To start with, what I think we are likely to see as a consequence of this legal bombshell coming from SCOTUS is a dramatic split between the individual US states in their laws. For example Texas and California may go in very different directions. This will create intractable legal conflicts as individual states try to exert control over what Americans can and cannot do, and try to exert their power across state boundaries. The Federal judiciary will be unable to resolve these conflicts in ways that please anybody or defuses the conflict.
I think the analogies being made here with the Fugitive Slave Act are telling. We are going to see individual states effectively being at war with one another, at first legally, but as the legal system tries and fails to settle disputes, escalating to more coercive and violent means. For example sealing off their borders against people who in an official capacity (such as law enforcement) are the agents of a hostile state. And then that situation escalating into vigilantism and state-sponsored terrorism. I see something like pre-1861 Kansas in our future.
geg6
@Kay:
She learned that from Phyllis Schlafly. That hypocritical hag.
Mike in NC
We’ve been to Florida enough times to think that Matt Gaetz will someday have a decent shot at succeeding DeSantis.
eversor
@Barbara:
This is not even remotely correct. The term incel itself, and all the original message boards were spun up by a woman who couldn’t get laid. It was originally largely a female thing. At this time the male internet thing was PUA or pick up artists which is still around though completely different. PUA was largely focused on a mix of self improvement, ways to target vulnerable women, and then trick them into sleeping with you.
Later you had guys for whom PUA didn’t work find out about female created incel community and at first took part in it. But then there took a dark current where you had people who krept in and gave the “only a return to traditional Christian sexual morality and gender roles can solve the issues of inceldom, also the feminists did it”. That’s when shit turned dark and you had all the mass killings by men and various Christian leaders screaming undoing the sexual revolution was the only fix or Ross Douthat talking about redistributing sex. All of this was so over the top that male violence and a return to traditional gender roles became the face of inceldom never mind that it was started by a woman and full of womans incel groups to this day.
The only real “men only” group on all this stuff MGTOW which is “men going their own way” in which they just simply check out of society completely. They don’t get much attention because they don’t act radical, violently, or want a return to traditional Christian gender roles. The most extreme thing you get for them is libertarian stuff about no taxes at all because they do not want to be in a society that would give any of their money to women.
JoyceH
@Cacti:
So how about some pro-Roe messaging that speaks to those people as well? I think that convincing them that women are fully human is a lengthy process, so talk to them where they are now.
Like so: Hey there, Mister Small Town Bank President. That son of yours is quite a kid, isn’t he? Apple of your eye and just accepted at Yale, you must be so proud. Oh, BTW, his girlfriend is pregnant, and we’ve got DNA testing now, so stand by because your 18 year old son is going to be on the hook for child support payments for the next 18 years. Congrats, grandpa!
Athenaze
@Quiltingfool: 16 was about the same age I was when I decided I didn’t want to have children. At times I’ve waffled to a “maybe, one day, but not now”, but that’s about as close as I’ve gotten.
geg6
@CaseyL:
Same here. My mother used to tell stories about how I would discuss how I’d never have kids or get married when I was 3 or 4 and how I never stopped saying it even when I understood what that meant. I have no idea why I’ve always felt that way, but I can tell you one thing. I’ve had more and better sex than any evangelical woman who did what they expect us all to do.
RaflW
@FelonyGovt: A glimmer of hope, via Bolts
Two Republican legislators who led recent efforts in the state to champion hard-right policies, including serving as the chief authors of legislation to fully ban abortion, lost their reelection bids in GOP primaries on Tuesday.
State Representatives John Jacob and Curt Nisly were among a large slate of far-right candidates running on Tuesday in Indiana, as part of a confrontation between the already-conservative GOP establishment and advocates who were angry at COVID-19 regulations and what they saw as an insufficiently aggressive approach to transforming the state into a conservative haven.
Nearly all non-incumbent candidates who ran as part of this far-right takeover effort lost as well, alongside Jacob and Nisly.
JoyceH
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
Another possibility is that the red states turn blue. Sounds crazy, but I honestly believe that when you get down to basic bedrock beliefs, WE outnumber THEM. Polls show that support for upholding Roe is the majority position pretty much everywhere, yes, even in Texas. The problem is to get the people who believe like US to get out and jump through all the new hoops and vote. It will be difficult, but the difficulty isn’t permanent. Just make the extra effort for a few election cycles until the Dems take over and make voting easy for everyone – and the GOP becomes a minority party everywhere, forever, unless they change their ways and their positions to more accurately match the people they are elected to serve.
AM in NC
@Barbara:
Bingo!
AM in NC
@Leto: Yep, and even the happily married women I know all say that if their marriages ended they wouldn’t be thinking about another marriage at all, ever.
We might want some male companionship, but marriage again? Hard pass.
The dudes would all be married again within 2 years.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@mali muso: I had very similar experience with my first two pregnancies, miscarried the first, which they at first suspected was ectopic, but wasn’t, second one the heartbeat stopped the end of the first trimester. Requiring a D and C, at a Navy hospital. I wonder what will happen to active duty women who need care after this goes through? And will the assholes decide that the birth control you can currently get from military doctors needs to be taken away too ( I would not be surprised).
my daughter just had a baby girl. Her latest Instagram post reads “ sitting here rocking my newborn daughter and wondering what kind of world I brought her into. “
David Collier-Brown
For a view from Scotland, we have Charles Stross:
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2022/05/roe-v-wade-v-sanity.html
(antipope was a registry typo: it was supposed to be “autopope”, rather like “popehat”. Charlie thought it was funny and kept it)
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@AM in NC: same. I have been married thirty eight years. Most of its been great but I would not remarry.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@JoyceH:
Yes, please. One would hope so. Certainly there are more purple states than there are truly red or blue ones, and thus some small relatively small shifts in public sentiment may nudge us in that direction.
But on the other hand it seems to me that the cultural split which underlies that political divide. which we currently call Red vs. Blue, can be traced back very far, all the way back to early 17th Cen. Britain, in which it triggered a civil war in the 1640s. That is a very long time, more than 400 years, and persisting across many different specific issues which have come and gone, and persisting across large changes in demographics and geography, among other things being successfully transplanted across the Atlantic during the process of European colonization of North America. That seems to me to be a very deeply rooted divide and thus not one which I’m overly optimistic about it fading away into much deserved obscurity anytime soon.
But one can hope.
Elizabelle
@EmbraceYourInnerCrone: Congratulations, new (?) grandmother.
We jackals (plus) are going to do everything we can to see that granddaughter grows up in a better and saner world.
@JoyceH: I am thinking that a lot of red states become very unattractive to relocating businesses. Are you going to put your workforce through that? Very economically uncompetitive.
WhatsMyNym
@trollhattan: @Jeffro:
Some of Amy’s soups seem to be in very short supply and folks are charging much more if they have it.
But it was just on sale here.
RaflW
@Elizabelle: Seriously. I left Austin, TX in 1995, because as an out gay man who hated handguns (and heat and humidity!) I’d had enough of that shit.
But of course Austin has exploded since then (it was already growing very fast even then). But how’s the employment recruiting going these days? “Oh, you want to offer me a job in the liberal mecca in the center of Greg Abbot’s mini-Gilead? I’m gonna stay here in Denver/SF/Minneapolis, thanks.”
Eljai
The US already has a much higher rate of maternal mortality than other comparable countries. I can see that rate rising substantially under this nightmarish scenario. I don’t think they’ve thought this through it all. The far right wants the right to monitor all pregnant women and criminalize doctors. Your spouse suffers a complication during pregnancy. Tough luck. The state says she has to die if there’s a chance the fetus will live. You don’t have a say. Ireland took a look at that and said let’s not do this anymore. Maybe we could learn something from them?
Lobo
@New Deal democrat: House plus 2! I agree.
MisterDancer
That’s not an Incel culture. That was a group of people, of all genders, who weren’t toxic, just lonely:
We all know what Barbara means when she said Incel culture. The OG Incel mailing list members ain’t it, no moseso than the perversion of the AAVE term “Woke”, or Critical Race Theory, when sputtered by Right-Wingers, today.
MisterDancer
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: And I pointed out why migration ain’t a solve, and is unlikely to make any difference.
Kay
@Eljai:
Mexico too. The only countries who have gone backward on abortion are Poland and now the United States. It’s really unusual, and coincides with far Right, nationalist movements.
Joe from Lowell
Matt Gaetz is so stupid that he thinks it’s a good idea for him to write about “under-loved” people younger than him.
READ. The ROOM, dude.
cain
@Kay: Millions of women accused as murderers by the govt while still trying to deal with the loss of a child. Everyone in their social circle will be emotionally torn apart dealing with that.
It won’t take long before there will be a significant backlash unless they target that law for only the lower and middle class and specific parts of the population that can’t defend itself.
cain
The NRA will turn into something else altogether then. I think the reaction will be that the gun nuts will buy even more guns and ammo. But then the gun nuts will get what they want or so they think – an armed society. I don’t think they want liberals to be armed. :)
Ruckus ??
@MisterForkbeard:
I decided I didn’t want kids in my 20s because there were more than enough people who procreated around me that I didn’t think we needed the extra numbers. I’m not at all unhappy that I don’t have kids, other than someone to take care of me when I’m old and feeble. However I also live in a senior’s complex – one has to be over 55 to live here. At 72 I’m about the average age for the around 150 residents. Most of us live alone. I’d say about 1/3 have kids that live close enough to visit semi regular. So the odds are that my kids wouldn’t actually be around if I had any and I’m no worse off without any.
cain
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: and wait till effects of climate change starts hitting folks in the south (and/or california) – we’re gonna be in deep shit.
schrodingers_cat
@cain: Have you been seeing the maha cringe moments from Modi’s Europe tour? I am going to start telling people I am a Latina from now on.
cain
@schrodingers_cat: I haven’t.. I haven’t been watching Indian news that much. Where do you read yours ?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Yes, well I want them sputtering first before I bring that up “Which blue state is the correct state to take my little girl on a sudden vacation, (if you know what I mean bro)? California is right out, I don’t want to her to meet up with a pervert.”
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Elizabelle: thank you! And yes first grand baby. She’s awesome and I am working to make her world better. She’s had an adventure so far and she’s only a month old. She’s a real pandemic baby, my daughter found out she was pregnant and that she had COVID the same week.
Ruckus ??
@matt:
No, he wouldn’t. I mean I get your point and it’s valid, but it’s going to take more than an apple or the reason you stated it to make that shit look good. He spends his life trying to make himself look better and he’s never succeeded in the least. He’s shit – and unless he gets a completely new personality and brain implant he’ll always be shit. Hell he’s so shitty that even with the personality and brain implant…..
schrodingers_cat
@cain: Twitter ki jai
An example
The Truffle
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ: The right has been itching to break up America for a long time. You should read the pieces by whackjobs like Jesse Kelley. He pushed for a national divorce. It’s a mainstay of far-right discussion boards.
I don’t want another civil war either. But I could see the country ending up like Czechoslovakia: simply disentangling from each other. Would be preferable to going the way of Yugoslavia.
Jeffro
@EarthWind&Fire (formerly bluegirlfromwyo): yeah, but that’s the ‘usual’ size for Progresso, which again is never more than $2 a can here, and usually 3 for $5.
Ya gotta scoop that stuff up when it’s the right price, that’s for sure. $4 a can? Pul-eeze.
Barbara
@MisterDancer: Thanks for responding to that because I had no idea what he was talking about.
eversor
@Cacti:
The bible is full of command for women to submit to their husbands. And the Christian teaching, tradition, and metaphysics is that the father is the head of the house and everything he says goes. Furthermore the traditional Christian teaching also keeps women out of all positions of authority.
Is what the court did horrible, sure but it’s completely Christian, far more so than letting women choose what to do. And that’s the rub. Leonard Leo is a devout Catholic and the Federalist Society is full of plutocrats but it is also dead set on putting Christians into power and transformering our laws according to Christianity and anything goes in that aspect because they are doing it for god. Bill Barr also admitted he did what he did for Christianity and to keep Christian values and passdown the faith.
Matt McIrvin
@The Truffle: It wouldn’t be a velvet divorce. It’s actually the blue states that would come out better from a separation (as much as it would hurt our allies in the rest of the country), so I’d imagine Red America would fight like hell to keep us in, as much as they claim they hate us.
The main reason for Democrats not to want it is that there are so many of us who are not in Blue America and would be utterly screwed. Also, these divisions don’t actually fall along state lines–we’re mixed up into every county and every town.
Ruckus ??
@EmbraceYourInnerCrone:
I posted above that I live in a senior’s complex and I’d say it’s about 65% women. I’m friends with a couple of them and I’d bet that most of them are like those 2, they have been divorced or widowed for a while and have no idea or need to get remarried. And I feel no need nor desire to be married.
Kay
@cain:
Here’s the proposed Ohio law:
An “affirmative defense” means the physician would be charged and have to provide evidence why the charges should be dropped, either before a trial on the charges or at trial. It wouldn’t apply to a miscarriage intervention anyway- the risk there is not “imminent death” it’s infection and possibly infertility caused by the infection. She’d have to have the infection and it would have to be life-threatening before they could intervene, even then they’re risking a fourth degree felony.
That was the Ireland case that inspired changes in their abortion law. They waited too long – trying to meet this ridiculous legal standard which is meaningless in medicine anyway- they don’t wait to provide treatment until the person it at deaths door because that’s insane- and killed her.
The Moar You Know
@The Truffle: I remember that psycho Neal Horsley, who thankfully is now dead (famous for creating the “Nuremburg Files” website and for admitting on national TV that he fucked mules as a kid in Georgia) who had a plan for seizing a nuclear warhead and holding the country hostage until abortion was outlawed everywhere, and then a split of the nation where they got all the good real estate and a cut of Blue State money in perpetuity.
It wasn’t the ability to carry through on such a threat that freaked me out, not nearly so much as that the fucker had thought it all the way through. Because if he had, so had others. Others who might be in a far better position to carry through on such an idea.
JR in WV
@StringOnAStick:
They may want it, but it will be illegal, everywhere, eventually. Just like condoms, IUDs, the pill, etc. Can you tell I’m upset?
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: There are Central American countries where to treat an ectopic pregnancy you have to wait until the person’s fallopian tube physically bursts.
JMS
@Jeffro: ok I had to look. A 19 oz can of Progresso is $6.19 or $5.19 on sale at a Honolulu Foodland. To which I say, just stay away from soup that has to be shipped in on a barge if possible.
Ruckus ??
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
I was born, raised and have lived most of my life in SoCal. For at least the first 1/3 of my life CA was rethuglican. As time went on that has changed drastically. Yes there are still some red areas, but most of the state is pretty damn blue. It takes time but it can change. I think that now, with better communications, and shittier rethuglican policies, that it is possible that change can happen and happen faster. The more they push their horrible policies and ideals, the faster it’s possible.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@RaflW: Yep, Alito made it clear teh gay is on the enemies list and don’t bother him about consequences.
And again, so the wingnuts purge the gay menace, then what wingtards, who is going to do the jobs these gay guys were doing? That’s what, between gay and bi guys, 33% of the male work force, gone.
Kay
@cain:
A large portion of the Ohio legislature are morons. They don’t have to have any particular qualifications to run and they’ve gerrymandered it so much they face no competition. You can’t even get rid of one and replace them with a non-moron. They wrote the laws to protect their own jobs.
That’s who will be directing medical care for pregnant women. Those idiots.
Bill Arnold
Some of us could use an “Anger” thread. :-)
Gravenstone
The opinion of the kiddy diddler has been duly noted, and disregarded.
MisterDancer
@eversor: All the people you mentioned are exactly why Jesus chose violence — chose the whip — at the Temple. Why he mocked the Pharisees at every turn.
And why he warned about the effects of money, on multiple occasions.
As someone who grew up in toxic (if well-meaning) Church environments, trust me, I know from the effects of Bad Churchin’. But your bloody-minded crusade — and I use that term advisedly — to turn this into a “everyone pile on Christianity” turns my stomach as much as the post-9/11 pile onto Islam, does.
Religion is not the issue,here. This is something you’ve been told multiple times, and yet, you insist that if we all just tell every Christian in American they are wrong-headed, we’ll magically defeat the issues facing this country.
And I’m sorry it’s not true. I wish it was that simple, but it is not. I know if we turn the country over to the likes of Atheists like Richard Dawkins, or James Watson, we still get Racism and Sexism and a host of other ills.
And that’s without mentioning the rampant problems in Pagan circles aroudn using a-historical “Norse,” or other, religion identities to buttress their foul ideas. Hell, the Historical Re-creation group I was involved with for decades has had multiple “Nazi explosions” in the last few years, almost all aligned to “recreating” something outside Christian identities that “just happes” to be racist/sexist as hell, on it’s good days.
The vast majority of forces we’re fighting may hide out under the umbrella of a Christian identity they do not deserve, today. But they will be happy to find any other cause to cockroach under, er we were to sweep every religion away, tomorrow.
eversor
@Kay:
In Poland it resulted in a massive backlash against the Church with the youth leaving at faster rates. It also turns “non religious” in Poland into “anti Christian” at rapid rates. I suspect that’s what we will get in the US. It’s going to take a few deaths that make national news before the right starts screeching when pro choice advocates start protesting Churches with the same class as they protested abortion clinics.
MisterDancer
Fun Fact; the Nation of Islam also demands a slicing up of states between races, or at least did when I last read their newsletters, 20 or so years ago.
I remember my “oh hell naw” reaction to read it, even today.
Kay
@Matt McIrvin:
I think the difference is the lurch backwards. So a country that never allowed abortion is not unusual, but a country that liberalized and then lurched dramatically backward is. That’s where the analysis tying that to far Right wing nationalist movements is coming from.
Remember when Hillary Clinton got screeched at by media for months for saying “womens rights are human rights”? That operates on two levels. Obviously women are human. But countries that progress on womens rights ALSO progress on human rights, including men. It’s better for men too.
So the US just went backward on that. Fifty years back. It will ripple past abortion. It does.
Ksmiami
@Kay: my argument after trying to restructure some companies in Michigan- you can have nostalgia or progress BUT not both… the GOP is hazardous to America
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Ruckus ??:
Where I have cause for hope is not only in examples like the one you cite (the political evolution of states like CA), but also that some of the mechanisms of exerting political control from a demographic minority position deployed by the GOP, most particularly gerrymandering, are essentially leveraged bets which assume stability in voting patterns among the electorate for their effectiveness.
The GOP has put a lot of chips in on that position. But gerrymandering can backfire on its creators. If you segregate the other side’s voters into electoral ghettos thus depriving them of fair representation in proportion to their numbers, the price of doing that is cutting into the margin of safety that you enjoy in the larger number of districts which you control.
If the electorate shifts against the party that engineered the gerrymander, turning safe seats into disputed ones, gerrymandering will magnify that effect.
Ksmiami
@The Truffle: the red states would be dead states within 3 months. They’d literally start eating each other esp when we cut off their technology and get all the non Republicans out.
Ksmiami
@JoyceH: I don’t want to talk to these self righteous a-holes- I want to smash them either electorally or thru other permanent methods.
NotMax
@JMS
Foodland prices are always, always, stratospheric (and the selection of items comparatively paltry). Only time I go there, even though it’s the store closest, is when I discover I’m too low on or out of one or two items immediately needed. If it weren’t for generations of locals continuing to buy Foodland poke I doubt they’d long be able to keep the doors open.
Miss the old Star Market chain in Hawaii.
trollhattan
@ian: Hell, we’ll probably never see that marshal again. “Ginni, your roses look spectacular this year, how do you do it?” “Oh, just a little family secret.”
Ksmiami
@RaflW: pretty much there… I have 2 daughters and Republicans are my enemy anyway… I’d keep a weapon locked in the closet but in the advent of roving anti-abortion anti-modernity enforcers well, I have very good aim.
trollhattan
@Ksmiami: It’s telling that a year plus after they had a power disaster than killed people, Texas intentionally keeps their grid separate from the rest of the country. And it’s the same grid.
JMS
@NotMax: Star Market is gone? Still remember my mom getting a half dead free Christmas tree from the parking lot when I was in middle school. This made her happy.
Ksmiami
@RaflW: and this is what dipshit Andrew Sullivan never understood- that women’s bodily autonomy /women’s progress allowed for the Gays to come out of the closet and demand protection as well – it’s all of a piece in dismantling the toxic American patriarchy that has handicapped our nation since it’s founding
Ksmiami
@Quiltingfool: hmm I think our natural inklings desire vigilante justice, but we have developed a system that tries to be better than the old Wild West. If these institutions break down though and become untenable, well let’s just say, people will revert to their basic instincts.
burnspbesq
@cain:
Happening already. Wildfires in Colorado in December? Permanent water shortages in California?
Ksmiami
@MisterForkbeard: I don’t think that their physical safety post this decision is any way assured.
Citizen Alan
@Quiltingfool: My personal feeling on the matter is that it is a sin to bring children into a world as fucked up as this one is going to be in another 30 years.
Bill Arnold
@trollhattan:
Monkeywrenchers have long looked at the Texas grid and had … thoughts. (Be aware the poking around for information about interconnects and etc will get your ip address (and maybe you) on a list.)
Anonymous At Work
Pretty savvy strategy here: Taint the jury pool for his sex trafficking trial so that all local women know him and loathe him openly.
Suzanne
@Ksmiami:
This is absolutely true, but it’s also a perfect example of why patriarchy is so insidious. Like, Andrew Sullivan is a white dude, and he conceived of himself in the world as An Individual. You would think a smart guy would notice that that isn’t the case, but it’s just so tiresome.
Matt McIrvin
@Elizabelle: This is part of the reason Disney was pushed into saying something about the Florida “Don’t Say Gay” bill, bringing down retribution from DeSantis–they have a huge operation there that is basically impossible to relocate, and all this anti-LGBT posturing very directly affects their workforce, after the company had spent decades overhauling their reactionary image to be somewhat gay-friendly. And they’d been planning on moving their whole Imagineering operation there from California.
I’ve been seeing a lot of theme-park and Disney fans saying things like “regardless of how you feel about all this, can we agree Disney never should have gotten involved in politics?” It doesn’t help that their new CEO has been making a lot of seemingly foolish decisions lately. But it’s not like it’s an abstract game they can stay aloof from.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: Some of those countries did lurch backwards from just banning abortion to super DUPER banning abortion–IIRC, Pope John Paul II went on a tour of Latin America and in an ensuing burst of enthusiasm they made the existing bans far, far more draconian, increasing penalties, removing “life of the mother” exceptions, etc. But they were starting in a different place.
TaMara
I see we had a troll, I applaud all of your restraint in not feeding said troll.
Ksmiami
@Suzanne: my final turn away from him was when he published those tragic late term abortion accounts but just couldn’t bring himself to be pro-choice. Come to think of it, I’m still pissed
Medicine Man
Matt Gaetz is such an unflushed toilet bowl leaving.
Jinchi
@germy: For Gaetz, overeducated is a girl with a high school diploma.
Kay
@Matt McIrvin:
They had three different messages- one for the activists – the “green wave” feminists, one for more traditional rural areas, which was about saving womens lives and the last for their opponents – derisive and mocking :)
Cacti
@Matt McIrvin: A history major can correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like a lurch backward of this magnitude is essentially without precedent in the USA.
SCOTUS has certainly made some reactionary decisions in its time, but I can’t think of another one where an entire class of people had a protected right for a half century, only to have SCOTUS suddenly decide “Fuck you, it’s up to the states now!”.
Matt McIrvin
@Cacti: The closest case I can think of is the Fugitive Slave Act–but that was actually a legislative attempt to enforce a provision that was already in the slavery-friendly Constitution.
Cacti
@Matt McIrvin: The closest I could think of is Dred Scott, when the majority ruled that even free black people had “no rights which the white man was bound to respect”.
Ksmiami
@Cacti: No and there’s a reason for that. Progress generally moves forward- the GOP has caught the car.
Kay
@Matt McIrvin:
This was Mexico – a year after Argentina- 2021
Kay
@Matt McIrvin:
I wondered if the movements in Mexico and Argentina really spurred the US Catholic church to get cracking on a ban here- they could see those countries slipping away.
The Truffle
@Ksmiami: So what comes after this. The outrage is here already over this leak.
The Truffle
@Ruckus ??:
I hope you are correct. Because I confess there are days I really believe the country will break apart.
I vaguely remember the bicentennial. And at this point? I have a feeling there won’t be a tricentennial.
Cacti
@The Truffle: I think 2024 will be the end of the country as it existed since 1865.
2020 was the dress rehearsal.
NotMax
@Cacti
Voiding by the Supreme Court of death penalty statutes, which lasted for a much shorter span, unfortunately.
LAO
Anyone remember those sad pathetic articles about how male Trumpers couldn’t get online dates in DC because no woman wanted to date a RW asshole? Hard to believe.
Ksmiami
@The Truffle: most Democracies crumble around their 250th… I’m hoping for a divorce
Ksmiami
@The Truffle: massive backlash followed by a restructuring of the court. Barring that cold to hot civil war over a Re-enactment of the fugitive slave act for women
TheTruffle
@Ksmiami: The massive backlash appears to be upon us now.
TheTruffle
@Ksmiami: Which other ones have done that? I’m thinking of Iceland, which has had a parliament for centuries.
TonyG
@germy: In fairness, stupidity and ignorance are considered to be positive attributes by Republicans for all people — male or female. Ignorance is Strength.
TonyG
@Kay: Mexico abolished slavery 28 years before the U.S. did — and it didn’t need a bloody civil war to do so. Mexico should build a wall to keep the backwards-assed Americans out.