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But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

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You are here: Home / Politics / Activist Judges! / Masks Off Open Thread: Sam Alito’s Jeebus Is A Canny Capitalist

Masks Off Open Thread: Sam Alito’s Jeebus Is A Canny Capitalist

by Anne Laurie|  May 7, 20228:03 pm| 130 Comments

This post is in: Activist Judges!, GOP Death Cult, Open Threads, Show Us on the Doll Where the Invisible Hand Touched You, Women's Rights Are Human Rights

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"the domestic supply of infants" right in the draft.

It was NEVER about rescuing orphans in desperate need of safe homes. It has always been about forcibly creating them to meet demand for infants. #RoeVWade #abortion #adoption #adopteetwitter #BabyScoopEra pic.twitter.com/NDRJ7zQ2zd

— Donna Gratehouse Domestic Infant Supply 1968 model (@DonnaDiva) May 3, 2022

A very angry, very white woman approached a friend on escort duty at the local Planned Parenthood, held up an obviously Asian infant, and snarled “Because of people like you, I had to settle for *this*!”

That was at least thirty years ago (and I hope that poor child had some less toxic adults in its life). It’s never been a secret that a solid wedge of the anti-choice contingent is less-than-wealthy would-be parents outraged that their perceived consumer rights have been infringed. (“Respectable” media didn’t talk about it at the time, but during the appointment of Chief Judge Roberts, there was a lot of social media muttering about how rich guys like him could baby-shop in Ireland and have their newborn ‘purchases’ delivered through Central America. Maybe Roberts never saw those comments; I sincerely hope his now-grown kids haven’t run across them.)

Kids are commodities, according to the authoritarians. Some commodities are more valuable — some are so precious / potentially dangerous that sales must be rigorously policed — but how dare we non-authoritarians dismiss the sacred rights of (potential) parents to a steady supply of the commodities to which they are entitled?

No, it's "family values." https://t.co/s7BzkQ8ooo

— Jeff Fecke (@jkfecke) May 7, 2022

The thing about this phrase is that it's exactly the sort of language you might expect to set off alarm bells in QAnon circles, until you realize this is what QAnon thinks it's doing, at its core: fighting a turf war over the property rights to the domestic supply of infants. https://t.co/hEpMRx57FQ

— Alexandra Erin (She/Her) (@AlexandraErin) May 6, 2022

Opinion | Creating Free Markets For Selling Children Could Ease Sting of Roe Reversal

— New York Times Pitchbot (@DougJBalloon) May 7, 2022

(And when the less desirable commodities — the other-than-pale, the ‘defective’, the unlucky — age out of the Newborn pool, well… didn’t some guy named Swift have a free-market solution for that problem?)

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Reader Interactions

130Comments

  1. 1.

    Obvious Russian Troll

    May 7, 2022 at 8:37 pm

    DougJ is a bit too much on the nose there.

  2. 2.

    mrmoshpotato

    May 7, 2022 at 8:41 pm

    “the domestic supply of infants”

    Given how deplorable and atrocious this is, I’m surprised they didn’t write “the domestic supply of white infants”

  3. 3.

    MomSense

    May 7, 2022 at 8:43 pm

    @Obvious Russian Troll:

    INORITE

    I was acquainted with one of the NYT kids in college.  A good friend of mine dated her and was ooooh so impressed with the VIP treatment they got while in NYC. That’s when I started distancing myself from them.  I think there is something very seductive and insidious about power and connections.

  4. 4.

    Spanky

    May 7, 2022 at 8:43 pm

    Seems like a modest proposal to me.

  5. 5.

    debbie

    May 7, 2022 at 8:45 pm

    If it kills me, I’m going to read tweets like this and only focus on the fact that they’ve at last overreached:

    Missouri is joining Louisiana in making IUDs and Plan B illegal.

    This AIN’T about abortion.

    It’s about legislating and controlling women based on warped religious beliefs.
    — Pam Keith, Esq. (@PamKeithFL) May 7, 2022

  6. 6.

    Poe Larity

    May 7, 2022 at 8:49 pm

    Why are all the IVF docs I know such wingnuts? You’d think white infertility would be a feature for them.

  7. 7.

    Cameron

    May 7, 2022 at 8:52 pm

    Just commodities like anything else….lima beans, kidney beans, human beans…..

  8. 8.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    May 7, 2022 at 8:52 pm

    @Debbie:

    Jared DeLoof @jcdeloof

    Breaking 
    Idaho State Affairs Committee Chair Brent Crane (R-Nampa) says that they will hear legislation in the wake of the overturning of Roe to BAN IUD’s and other forms of birth control. #idpol

  9. 9.

    debbie

    May 7, 2022 at 8:54 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    They’ve at last overreached. /grits teeth/

  10. 10.

    John Revolta

    May 7, 2022 at 8:55 pm

    “Because of people like you, I had to settle for *this*!”

    That’s some of the fucked-uppedest shit I ever heard. If I heard it anywhere else I wouldn’t even believe it.

  11. 11.

    dmsilev

    May 7, 2022 at 8:56 pm

    the domestic supply of infants”

    I how long until the first round of iNFanT tokens hits the blockchain? Because I feel that’s basically inevitable at this point.

  12. 12.

    Barbara

    May 7, 2022 at 8:56 pm

    @debbie: ​
     They have turned Christianity into a fertility cult.

  13. 13.

    Starfish

    May 7, 2022 at 8:57 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: This is from the literature on adoption, and YES the values are set exactly like that. Healthy newborns that the parents can pass off as their own are highly valued.

    Some children in the adoption system are stolen and put there. Some children are sold by families who cannot afford to feed them.

    The whole system is very gross, but adoption is better for kids than group homes.

  14. 14.

    Starfish

    May 7, 2022 at 8:59 pm

    @Barbara: I thought the Quiverful movement did that with the whole Duggar television show that was cancelled around the time when one of the older boys was in trouble for being inappropriate with his sisters.

  15. 15.

    Princess Leia

    May 7, 2022 at 9:00 pm

    My understanding is that the phrasing came from a CDC document on adoption.

  16. 16.

    Peale

    May 7, 2022 at 9:02 pm

    Gay men, counter marching, holding up empty hands. Shouting back “Because of you, I had to settle for this.”

  17. 17.

    debbie

    May 7, 2022 at 9:02 pm

    How different actors run in character ? pic.twitter.com/LhQ7vzwInx
    — she taur (@indigogloves) May 7, 2022

  18. 18.

    delk

    May 7, 2022 at 9:02 pm

    Maybe they should pray harder and prey less.

  19. 19.

    Another Scott

    May 7, 2022 at 9:04 pm

    nycsouthpaw says that there’s probably less here than meets the eye. Alito is citing a 2008 CDC report that uses 2002 data on people wanting to adopt.

    I keep seeing this sorta misleading tweet float by in the timeline with ever greater expressions of alarm. So it seems worth clarifying that this language is a direct quote from a CDC document written in 2008 about conditions in 2002 that appears in a footnote of Alito’s draft. https://t.co/hPTSeOaMks

    — southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) May 7, 2022

    There’s no doubt that the RWNJs are grasping at straws to say that, obviously,
    everyone is a winner if they strike down Roe and Casey because more American babies in more happy American homes via the Magic of the Marketplace. Sure, people who want to adopt generally want to adopt kids kinda like them and there will never be enough such kids to meet demand, but it’s a stupid, category error, reason to try to restrict or outlaw abortions. And it intentionally ignores the fact that the abortions will still get done in the vast majority of cases (because women have abortions out of necessity not for whatever insane reason the RWNJs and their cynical enablers spout), but many, many more women will die in the process.

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  20. 20.

    FelonyGovt

    May 7, 2022 at 9:04 pm

    So women are going to be unpaid and unwilling factory workers, part of the supply chain producing adoptable domestic infants. How fucked up is that.

  21. 21.

    Robin Goodfellow

    May 7, 2022 at 9:04 pm

    Whoah, I did nazi this coming. Deplorable is too kind of a word. Your body my choice, finally the mask drops and we see what we are up against.

    Revolting, despicable, amoral hypocrites. Just the sort of people Christ hated the most.

  22. 22.

    Raoul Paste

    May 7, 2022 at 9:05 pm

    So what company is going to want to relocate to a state where birth control is virtually gone?

    And boy, if you thought the incels were aggrieved before, just wait until their ranks explode

  23. 23.

    MomSense

    May 7, 2022 at 9:05 pm

    @Starfish:

    Older boy was busted for possession of child porn.

  24. 24.

    Starfish

    May 7, 2022 at 9:06 pm

    @Another Scott: Here is a place where they show the photo of the source citation, which is from a CDC report.

  25. 25.

    debbie

    May 7, 2022 at 9:07 pm

    @Barbara:

    Maybe inbreeding really is a thing with them.

  26. 26.

    Kay

    May 7, 2022 at 9:07 pm

    It’s interesting to me that there’s no discussion at all about the father’s rights in adoption. All of these anti-abortion people just breezily announce that if they can force the woman to give birth domestic supply of infants available will go up. That isn’t how it works. They know that isn’t how it works. Once the child is born the father can assert his parental rights. I’m wondering why they are deliberately misleading people about this issue, too.

    It’s just dishonesty and trickery all the way down. They simply aren’t engaging with what will be very complicated legal issues. They know better. These anti-abortion national groups are flush with cash. They pay plenty of lawyers. Yet we get this oddly idiotic and simplistic analysis that is worse than you would get from any average practitioner. Go look up your state code on adoption and overlay it on top of this bullshit they’re spouting. The parts INTERACT.

  27. 27.

    Starfish

    May 7, 2022 at 9:08 pm

    @MomSense: Was that before this?

  28. 28.

    debbie

    May 7, 2022 at 9:08 pm

    @FelonyGovt:

    Maybe that’s a way to slow them down. Demand compensation for being the incubator. Expenses, bill, stipend of $100,000…

  29. 29.

    Lapassionara

    May 7, 2022 at 9:08 pm

    @Spanky: Hah. Yes.

  30. 30.

    Anne Laurie

    May 7, 2022 at 9:09 pm

    @Starfish: Also:  Some of those ‘crisis pregnancy centers’ that set up shop across from Planned Parenthood buildings are literally selling the infants they encourage desperate pregnant people to give up.   They monitor the pregnancy, snatch up the newborn before the mother leaves the maternity ward, and then turn over the baby to a pre-selected Decent Christian (usually White) Couple who’ve paid them a hefty legal fee to “deal with the paperwork”, not to mention any icky contact with some slut whore who should’ve kept her legs closed in the first place…

    You think I’m exaggerating?  Look up the Chuz Lyf! propaganda about ‘supporting young girls faced with a difficult choice’.  It’s baby-farming, but with all the bells & whistles of modern marketing.

  31. 31.

    MomSense

    May 7, 2022 at 9:12 pm

    @Starfish:

    Yes, I think they are at the sentencing phase after multiple delays.

    ETA – no after that

  32. 32.

    Ladyracterinok

    May 7, 2022 at 9:13 pm

    @Barbara:

    A few months ago I had no internet access TV access. I listened to radio a lot .

    From programs on the conservative Catholic radio station EWTN I heard many programs about the Catholic belief that abortion homosexuality and transgender aid are completely against Catholic doctrines.

    I also learned that the Pope before Pope Benedict wrote that contraceptives damage women

    The reason according to them that abortion is against God is that God told humans to “be fruitful and multiply”

    No mention of feed the hungry, clothe the naked, heal the sick, welcome the stranger

    Just have as many babies as possible

    I I found that a strange statement of the Christian gospel that I learned in Sunday School.

  33. 33.

    scav

    May 7, 2022 at 9:15 pm

    Given how fond they are of cheap & child labor, all the undesirable ones might age into group housing arrangements where the management can hire them out to help pay for their upkeep and teach them self-relience. I’m sure all the prison labor companies are looking to expand.

  34. 34.

    Jay

    May 7, 2022 at 9:16 pm

    @MomSense:

    On May 22, 2015, TLC suspended the series when the Duggars’ eldest son Josh publicly apologized for having “acted inexcusably” following reports that he molested five girls, including some of his sisters, by fondling them. These events occurred in 2002 and 2003, when Josh was 14 to 15 years old and prior to the beginning of the show. On July 16, 2015, TLC announced that the show was officially canceled and would not resume production.[17] A spin off show, Counting On, aired in December 2015 and was cancelled in 2021, due to Josh Duggar’s arrest for child pornography.[18]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_Kids_and_Counting

  35. 35.

    Peale

    May 7, 2022 at 9:17 pm

    @debbie: I one of the most amazing film performances I ever watched was about a teen who was using skateboarding to help self-medicate for untreated depression. The actor so embodied the role that he had a different smile than he normally has. In one scene, the character skateboarding for the first time and needed to pull of the bodylanguage of someone who is doing something new transitioning into the joy of doing it into the elation of the endorphin rush within the framework of the characters smile. And he did so. Yeah…running in character…o.k. master thespian. Try ski jumping.

  36. 36.

    Kay

    May 7, 2022 at 9:17 pm

    I suppose they’re misleading people because if they actually addressed the various rights in adoption, they would have to admit that “the mother” cannot unilaterally relinquish parental rights. In no state is this true. Then we would get into messy discussions of the reality of this, where the mother will be forced to carry the child and then her only choice will be to raise the child or turn the child over to the father.

    That’s what will actually happen, despite what these very fancy lawyers are writing in their delusional opinions that ignore all existing law that will intersect with banning abortion. Again, every one of them knows better. The SCOTUS Justices know better, the well compensated legal teams at anti-abortion groups know better- they simply have decided to not engage at all with the complex consequences of their decisions.

    They’re hoping they can hand wave Americans into not thinking about any of this until it happens. But it wil happen.

  37. 37.

    kalakal

    May 7, 2022 at 9:18 pm

    A very angry, very white woman approached a friend on escort duty at the local Planned Parenthood, held up an obviously Asian infant, and snarled “Because of people like you, I had to settle for *this*!” 

    That made me want to throw up. What a disgusting person

  38. 38.

    Bill Arnold

    May 7, 2022 at 9:23 pm

    Yeah, a CDC document. From the previous thread:
    Adoption Experiences of Women and Men and Demand for Children to Adopt by Women 18–44 Years of Age in the United States, 2002 (August, 2008, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Health Statistics)

    Because of the decrease in the domestic supply of infants and children available for adoption, more affluent women and couples have increasingly sought to adopt children from other countries.

    (I didn’t look at Alito’s draft but had heard it was CDC language so searched on “domestic supply of infants” site:cdc.gov )

  39. 39.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    May 7, 2022 at 9:24 pm

    the Turtle says the quiet part out loud…

    Sahil Kapur @sahilkapur 55m

    Mitch McConnell says a federal abortion ban “possible” if Roe is overturned.
    “If the leaked opinion became the final opinion, legislative bodies – not only at the state level but at the federal level – certainly could legislate in that area,” he says.

  40. 40.

    Peale

    May 7, 2022 at 9:24 pm

    @kalakal: On the plus side, one of the reason that there were a lot of Asian babies for adoption at one time was because there were lots of orphan producing events in places like Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos. So at least they aren’t advocating, say, restarting the Vietnamese war to get some orphans in the pipeline and more mothers into refugee camps.

  41. 41.

    LeftCoastYankee

    May 7, 2022 at 9:25 pm

    This thread reminded me of the horrors of the Romanian orphanages under Ceaucescu (sp?).

    Repub clowns won’t be bothered to even try to address the outcomes of their evil ideas.  It is not improbable to have warehouses of unwanted, scarred children.

  42. 42.

    Kay

    May 7, 2022 at 9:25 pm

    @Jay:

    The grossest part to me about that was TLC. Jesus. Absolute scumbags. I know the Duggars would never cut off the TLC cash cow, but TLC was running a reality show promoting this abusive cult with active child predators.

  43. 43.

    Ladyracterinok

    May 7, 2022 at 9:25 pm

    @Ladyracterinok:

    John Paul II wrote that contraceptives severely harm women both psychologically and physically 

  44. 44.

    Ksmiami

    May 7, 2022 at 9:30 pm

    @Jay: the original groomers… amirite?

  45. 45.

    Another Scott

    May 7, 2022 at 9:31 pm

    Barb Byrum at Eclectablog: (She’s Ingham County MI County Clerk)

    The minute that this opinion is formally entered and Roe v. Wade is no longer law, abortion will be illegal in Michigan. We have a law from the Great Depression era to thank for that.

    And it won’t stop there. Alito specifically calls out same-sex marriage and sodomy laws in his opinion, claiming that they, too, are not “deeply rooted in history.”

    The leaked majority opinion claims that safe haven laws somehow make it worry-free to have to carry a baby to term. They don’t. They claim that leave for pregnancy and childbirth is guaranteed in many cases. But not all.

    This is no longer an academic debate. This is not a negotiation about how many weeks. It is not a thought exercise about a rapist’s unborn child or the value of a mother’s life if it is in danger, while carrying a child.

    The rub here is that the other side never considered it a debate. They never considered it a thought exercise. They worked methodically and mercilessly to unethically, unjustly pack the Supreme Court over the last six years to get us to this point.

    Too many of the people who probably consider themselves to be allies have said that it would never come to this. They would not listen and today they will be full of excuses. And it’s too late for that.

    We told you that this would happen. We said it in no uncertain terms and we were told that we were being overly dramatic. We were told that this was settled law. And make no mistake, as we have said many times before: This will not end abortions. It will end safe abortions.

    I often get asked about voter turnout and its impacts on our way of life. We are seeing that right now. The people that are aghast right now should have gotten out and voted every election for the last ten years. They should have voted like their rights depended on it.

    We have the facts and justice and human dignity on our side. We need to use all of it.

    Abba Eban said that “Men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other resources” which has morphed into Churchill saying, “Americans can be counted on to do the right thing after all other choices have been exhausted.” Let’s hope that we do the work to do the right thing before then, this time.

    Forward!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  46. 46.

    Mike in NC

    May 7, 2022 at 9:35 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: If only Mitch McConnell’s mother had the good sense to have had an abortion way back when.

  47. 47.

    Suzanne

    May 7, 2022 at 9:35 pm

    I will note that plenty of white Christians, probably including Amy Coney Barrett, have a white savior complex and are thrilled to adopt children of other races. It’s considered in some churches to be saving the children, to raise them in white Christian families.

    They want infants, though, and they want closed, private, old-fashioned adoptions. Foster-to-adopt is a long, difficult road, and the kids that get adopted usually have some trauma, or health concerns, or disabilities that need lifelong care. I have multiple friends and acquaintances who have adopted foster children, and it was difficult for them all. It’s a long process, filled with uncertainty. One couple we’re friends with adopted a pair of brothers, and dad lost his job while the adoption was going through, and he had to maintain employment and couldn’t move out of state. He got a job out of state, and he had to commute for months until the adoption was final. And everyone I know who’s done it has to have “open” adoptions, and the birth parents all have some degree of contact. I understand why this is totally awful for adoptive families.

    And yet, I know they just want move babies for infertile Christian couples and they can absolutely fuck right off.

    If they want people to have more babies, they can pay people to have them.

  48. 48.

    MagdaInBlack

    May 7, 2022 at 9:36 pm

    @Ladyracterinok: Yes, it makes us physically and psychologically free to get an education and a career without the constant concern of unplanned pregnancy, thus disrupting our true role of being mothers and so we will “never know what it is to be a woman” ( quoting my MIL) and that’s just craziness

    ( heavy sarcasm alert)

  49. 49.

    lgerard

    May 7, 2022 at 9:36 pm

    @debbie:

    Maybe that’s a way to slow them down. Demand compensation for being the incubator. Expenses, bill, stipend of $100,000…

    Don’t for get to claim depreciation

  50. 50.

    japa21

    May 7, 2022 at 9:36 pm

    It doesn’t matter that the CDC used the phrase first. It was used as a statement of fact, not a statement of policy. It was not an argument against abortion. Not even sure abortion was used as a cause of the “shortage”.
    What matters is that it is being used as a rationale for taking away a right, which it is not. As Kay mentions, giving up a child that a woman was forced to carry to term requires consent on the part of the woman and the father. How do they plan to guarantee that these infants, many of which will be disabled or have other congenital “defects” like wrong color hair, wrong color skin, etc will even be adopted? And those that aren’t adopted, what are their plans for providing appropriate care? They don’t have them.
    Don’t know if it has been mentioned before, but Pete Buttigieg had a great response to this whole thing. If you haven’t seen it, check it out

  51. 51.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 7, 2022 at 9:37 pm

    @Barbara: It always was. Paul was a hellenized Jew from Tarsus who had failed to become a rabbi (pharisee), which is why every pronouncement and declaration of Judaic law he makes in his epistles are wrong. The local deity in Tarsus, where he spent the bulk of his life, was Ba’al Taraz: the hanged god. Ba’al Taraz was sacrificed every autumn by being hung upside down on a cross to ensure survival through the winter and resurrected every spring. Basically an ancient fertility tied to the harvest seasons deity and religion. Also, an ancient John Barleycorn. At its core, Pauline Christianity, which won the fight with all the other early variants, is basically a fusion of Jewish prophecy with ancient Mediterranean fertility religion.

  52. 52.

    Starfish

    May 7, 2022 at 9:39 pm

    @Anne Laurie: Where I grew up, those crisis pregnancy centers were all that existed. It is the same state that has this case before the Supreme Court. ?

  53. 53.

    mrmoshpotato

    May 7, 2022 at 9:42 pm

    @Starfish:

    The whole system is very gross, but adoption is better for kids than group homes. 

    Agreed, but referring to human beings as “domestic supply” is fucking deplorable and disgusting.

  54. 54.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    May 7, 2022 at 9:42 pm

    @Kay:That’s what will actually happen, despite what these very fancy lawyers are writing in their delusional opinions that ignore all existing law that will intersect with banning abortion. Again, every one of them knows better. The SCOTUS Justices know better, the well compensated legal teams at anti-abortion groups know better- they simply have decided to not engage at all with the complex consequences of their decisions.

    Yes, this. I’ve been watching the Religious Right since they had a go at science in the ’00s and that’s the theme with them. They don’t give a shit about the consequences of their actions.  that’s for us libertards to fix and they will hinder us every step of the way.

    With these people the means are far more important than the end result.

  55. 55.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 7, 2022 at 9:45 pm

    @Kay: They are counting on the surest bet you can place in America: that Americans, even educated ones, are morons!

    pic.twitter.com/ibvsitpWBS

    — Duchess ??? ? ✌ (@tkheller916) May 1, 2022

    From A&W’s website:
    https://awrestaurants.com/blog/aw-third-pound-burger-fractions

    The Truth About A&W’s Third-Pound Burger and the Major Math Mix-Up

    By now you’ve probably heard the story: once upon a time, A&W Restaurants released a third-pound burger that failed to catch on thanks to a misunderstanding of fractions. Just how accurate is this tale of math mistakes and fraction flubs? Read on for the scoop.

    In the 1980s, then-owner A. Alfred Taubman launched the “Third is the Word” campaign to promote A&W’s new third-pound burgers and compete with another brand’s smaller quarter-pound burger.

    Taubman recounted this example in his book, Threshold Resistance. “We were aggressively marketing a one-third-pound hamburger for the same price…but despite our best efforts, including first-rate TV and radio promotional spots, they just weren’t selling.”

    Confused why A&W’s burgers weren’t able to compete even though the burgers were priced the same as their competitors, Taubuman brought in a market research firm.

    The firm eventually conducted a focus group to discover the truth: participants were concerned about the price of the burger. “Why should we pay the same amount for a third of a pound of meat as we do for a quarter-pound of meat?” they asked.

    It turns out the majority of participants incorrectly believed one-third of a pound was actually smaller than a quarter of a pound.

    Despite the confusion, Taubman took an important lesson from the experience: “Sometimes the messages we send to our customers through marketing and sales information are not as clear and compelling as we think they are.”

    Craving one of our tasty third-pound burgers? Click here to find an A&W near you.

    Vintage black and white ad from the 1980s. Text at the top of the ad reads “Third is the Word” with photo of a Burger and mug of A&W Root Beer below the text.

  56. 56.

    japa21

    May 7, 2022 at 9:45 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: ​
      Full disclosure. I am a devout Christian, RC branch. But back in my mainline Protestant stage, even when I was at seminary studying to become a minister (long story as to why I didn’t) I had issues with Paul. I sometimes would sarcastically say ” Shouldn’t this be called Paulianity?”
    All the tolerance that Christ exemplified is missing from Paul.
    I occasionally have reason to go to Baptist churches (familial reasons) and almost never do they, for Bible readings, read from the Gospels. It is almost always from the Old Testament or Paul. Drives me crazy.

  57. 57.

    Starfish

    May 7, 2022 at 9:47 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: The whole concept of healthy newborns being commodities for infertile parents is gross, but it is the way that it is. It has gotten slightly less bad in recent years, but it is still quite bad.

  58. 58.

    zhena gogolia

    May 7, 2022 at 9:49 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Hahaha

  59. 59.

    Mallard Filmore

    May 7, 2022 at 9:55 pm

    @debbie: 

    Maybe that’s a way to slow them down. Demand compensation for being the incubator. Expenses, bill, stipend of $100,000…

    That’s not gonna be how it works. The ant-abortionists get the glory of God, and dump the work, time, and expense on someone else. That’s how these people ‘take responsibility for their actions’.

  60. 60.

    Kay

    May 7, 2022 at 9:56 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    There’s going to be a major learning curve period for Americans, that’s for sure. Odd that none of these extremely fancy lawyers saw fit to even outline real world consequences, ever.

    I worry that none of the stories will get told. That it will be just women dealing with this in isolation, and none of it will ever be connected to the changes in the laws. There was so little coverage of the real world changes in Texas, outside the Texas Tribune. I just don’t think media are much interested in it. If they were we probably wouldn’t have some of the highest rates of maternal mortality among “rich” countries, and we do. Why are all these women dying in childbirth or in the year past childbirth in the US? No one even asks.

  61. 61.

    Tony Gerace

    May 7, 2022 at 9:57 pm

    When I become emperor I will ban the use of the term “Pro Life”.  These are some of the worst people on the face of the earth.  Atrios makes a good point in his blog.  When the law defines a blastocyst as a person, doctors will avoid performing any medical procedure  on a woman that might possibly result in a miscarriage.  Women will suffer and die

  62. 62.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 7, 2022 at 9:59 pm

    @japa21: As someone who is Jewish, was educated by the Jesuits and Methodists, and has a MA in comparative religion, I read Paul and I’m like: “what that guy knew about Judaism wouldn’t fit in a thimble!”

    So I feel you. When I used to teach comparative western religions, as well as New Testament, I’d assign Father Nolan’s, SJ, Jesus Before Christianity. I’d also try to make sure to demonstrate the real, but largely ignored because the bulk of Christians are ignorant of Judaism as Judaism, places in the New Testament that are the connections back to Judaism. And provide explanations that make sense in regard to Judaism in general and Judaism in that time period in specific.

  63. 63.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 7, 2022 at 10:01 pm

    What they want are Axlotl tanks. For those who have not read Dune and the subsequent sequels:

    https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Axlotl_Tank

    An Axlotl tank or Axolotl tank was the “tank” by which the Bene Tleilax reproduced a living human being from the cells of a cadaver, producing type of clone called a ghola. These tanks were also used in the creation of genetically engineered assassins known as Face Dancers. The axlotl tanks were later engineered to replicate the spice melange, previously only available on the desert planet Arrakis where it was created naturally as part of the life cycle of the sandworms.

    The unsuccessful Tleilaxu attempt to create artificial melange called amal (Project Amal) used axlotl technology; the best results were gained by using a Bene Gesserit sister to create an axlotl tank.

    The Bene Gesserit eventually suspected that the axlotl tanks were what remained of female Tleilaxu, since no Tleilaxu females had ever been seen. Moreover, the Reverend Mother Darwi Odrade, during the time of the Honored Matres, told Tleilaxu Master Tylwyth Waff that neither she nor any of her sisters would become an axlotl tank. This remark elicited shock from the Master, a reaction that indicated that the Bene Gesserit suspicion was true. Genetic information could be coded into those bred in axlotl tanks. As a result, the resulting organisms could be bred for certain aptitudes, skills, and reflexes.

    Despite the revulsion axlotl tanks caused in many groups and cultures, by the time the Honored Matres had conquered the planets of the Old Imperium, the Bene Gesserit had adopted them for the creation of gholas to further their cause. The last remaining Tleilaxu Master, Scytale, was coerced into revealing the means of creating the tanks to the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood.

    More at the link.

  64. 64.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 7, 2022 at 10:02 pm

    @zhena gogolia: It’s funny because it’s true!

  65. 65.

    Kay

    May 7, 2022 at 10:02 pm

    @Tony Gerace:

    When women go for medical care one of the first questions is always “are you pregnant?” For obvious and good reasons, right? Now that’s a fucking terrifying question which might mean these people are going to follow you around and start monitoring your pregnancy. You’ll end up at mandatory Bible study in one of their “maternity homes”.

  66. 66.

    Peale

    May 7, 2022 at 10:03 pm

    One of the things I think we need to start thinking about to mitigate these laws is what legal services we’re going to provide people questioned after miscarriages. Or will the police just get to start questioning people and getting records on people without an attorney.

    The other thing I’m wondering about is how involved on an individual level we can be before becoming criminals ourselves. The penalties are going to be severe, for instance, to direct someone to a place where morning after pills are available. I think there’s going to be a lot of “known liberals” in red areas who are going to be asked questions like this as it will be assumed that the “liberal” will somehow know and be helpful.

  67. 67.

    Suzanne

    May 7, 2022 at 10:04 pm

    @Starfish: Probably 25% of the couples that Mr. Suzanne and I are friends with used some sort of ART to have kids. And the GOP is coming for that shit, too. Egg and embryo freezing are in their sights. That…. will radicalize some people. By a lot.

  68. 68.

    eversor

    May 7, 2022 at 10:04 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    If you look at any of the Christian Intellectuals, Dreher, Ahmari, Douthat, Metaxis, Peppin, Vermule, Deneen (I could name a few dozen) they have been open that they want everything.  Ban abortion, remove all LGBTQ+ items, ban sodomy, ban non marital sex, ban birth control, promote chastity, get rid of promiscuity, large families, high fertility rates, prayer in schools, prayer in all government offices, mandated positions for Christians in corporations/acadamia/government, any mention of religious liberty is an automatic legal win, Christianity as a special protected class with special rights, the list goes on.   And they view anything is not only allowed to do this, but should be done and must be done including violently installing a Franco and implementing integralism.   And if they don’t get this they cannot live out their faith or pass it down which means well… killing is OK as well but it will all be the fault of the people who didn’t let Christians live out their faith.

    Hell Bill Barr and Alito went on rants about this to donors and in speeches to colleges.

    None of them have been hiding all this at all.   But you need to listen to what’s coming out of the churches, not the RNC, or the GOP, or the donors.

  69. 69.

    Suzanne

    May 7, 2022 at 10:08 pm

    @Kay: I’m seeing advice to delete period tracking apps, as that information could become discoverable by law enforcement.

  70. 70.

    MagdaInBlack

    May 7, 2022 at 10:08 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Oh lord, I’ve been thinking about those tanks myself.

  71. 71.

    japa21

    May 7, 2022 at 10:10 pm

    @eversor: That word intellectual is really stretching it.

  72. 72.

    satby

    May 7, 2022 at 10:11 pm

    @Another Scott: In 1975, as a student in an all white, Catholic hospital nursing school, the speaker from the Right to Life organization told the assembly that if “we don’t reverse Roe, in a decade white people will be minorities in our own country”.

    There was a clinic a mile east of me on Halsted across from the Woodson Library. Never had protesters or threats that I was aware of, and I was a twice weekly literacy tutor at that library for a couple of years. Because it was a black neughboehood, and the forced birthers didn’t care if abortions went on there.

  73. 73.

    Damien

    May 7, 2022 at 10:12 pm

    I mean, as gross as it is maybe the answer is to sue against a state law based on the idea that the state can’t force a citizen to do unpaid labor. I dunno, wrap it up in the whole commerce clause thing and make it an economic argument to attack for human rights in a way that could potentially get even the liberal New Republic on board.

    I don’t know, but I do know the answer is not to give up

  74. 74.

    Suzanne

    May 7, 2022 at 10:13 pm

    @eversor: I read some of those guys to keep tabs on them…. And you are 100% right about what they want. They want women breeding and dependent and sexually available, without threat to their social position.

    The irony is that Dreher just announced his divorce and I can only imagine why.

  75. 75.

    Villago Delenda Est

    May 7, 2022 at 10:14 pm

    @japa21: ​
     These people hate Matthew. 6:5 totally gets in the way of their performative horseshit.

  76. 76.

    Anne Laurie

    May 7, 2022 at 10:14 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Many years ago, there was a brief spasm of interest in developing ‘artificial wombs’ that could be implanted in male bodies.  Another ex-Catholic friend & I had a whole shtick about the Order of St. Gerard, where devout Catholic men could choose a career of implantations / caesareans to “save” those unwanted ‘aborted’ babies.

    Or (Murphy forbid) if we want to sink to RWNJ levels… can you imagine Matt Gaetz or Gym Jordan being kidnapped, anesthetized, and told upon awakening that the red seam on their bellies showed they were now pregnant?

    (No, it’s not scientifically possible.  But are those guys bright enough to understand that?)

  77. 77.

    Jay

    May 7, 2022 at 10:16 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    A&W in Canada has a new prime rib burger out there, ( grass fed, free range)

    I want to eat it, with a side of onion rings.

  78. 78.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 7, 2022 at 10:16 pm

    @Kay: The major national mainstream news media outlets will take their cues, like they always do from The NY Times. And the NYT is going to do its usual excellent job of screwing this up. But the female reporters (print, television, and radio in the case of NPR) and photojournalists and editors and bookers, etc will also all know they can no longer safely travel outside of where they’re already located. Primarily the New York metro area and DC. So they’re not going to actually be on site in places like Texas or GA or MS or ID, etc to actually cover the horrors that are going to take place. And, as a result, those horrors won’t get covered.

    I wrote my doctoral dissertation on anti-abortion terrorism. You can’t read it anywhere because not a single academic press at the time, nor academic journal was interested in even sending it out for peer review to see if it could be published. I was told it was too controversial, that you can’t use empirical social science theory to explain terrorism, and you certainly can’t build an empirical model out of it to statistically test if its valid. Also, despite using the correct test for small n, non-linear data – a poisson distribution – I was using the wrong test.

    So it sets on the shelf in the special collection section of the UF library and you can, if you like, buy a copy from Michigan Microforms. Because every dissertation is required to be filed with the latter. They’ll sell you a copy, charge you a pretty penny for it too. I don’t get a dime. I have no idea if anyone has ever tried to buy a copy.

    But I can tell you, with a lot of knowledge learned from doing that dissertation project, that people do not want to think about the issue. Even those that want to be legal because they might need it. They don’t want to hear that Judaism requires an abortion to save the life and health of the mother, despite what the ultra-orthodox sects started claiming after the Holocaust. They don’t want to hear that Islam allows them up until about the 16-18th week of pregnancy. They don’t want to hear that the Catholic Church actually requires them, using the same bioethical logic and citations as Judaism actually does, in the case of ectopic pregnancy and, at the same time, recognizing in the Catholic bioethical literature that the prohibition in all other cases is an error based on a mistranslation of the biblical texts being cited in case of ectopic pregnancy (they left a not out!). They don’t want to hear about the threats and the violence to people who work or are patients at medical practices that have nothing to do with abortion because the idiots protesting can’t understand the difference between types of medical practice.

    The horrors that are coming won’t be limited to women being maimed or killed because they can’t get the care they need. Or being maimed and killed trying to self induce an abortion. Or even because self righteous and overzealous medical professionals, law enforcement, and judges are going to make even the possibility of being pregnant something that falls under the court’s jurisdiction leading women who are not pregnant to have their rights curtailed because they could be pregnant, as well as women who are pregnant having their rights curtailed because they are. It is going to include violence. Lots and lots of violence. And the worst thing about this is they want that violence. They are counting on that violence. They need that violence to feed their self righteousness and overzealotry.

  79. 79.

    Villago Delenda Est

    May 7, 2022 at 10:19 pm

    @Kay: Lebensborn

  80. 80.

    Kay

    May 7, 2022 at 10:19 pm

    @Suzanne:

    They’ve already done it in Missouri. 2019:

    Missouri’s top health official said Tuesday the state monitored detailed personal information about Planned Parenthood patients, in some cases reviewing women’s menstrual cycles, with the aim of identifying those who had failed abortions. Randall Williams, the state health director, said his goal was protecting patient safety. But critics called it an invasion of women’s privacy and demanded his resignation and an investigation by the governor.

    So they have the capacity and state law reach already. They just need a “safety” excuse. There are scads of those.

    State health officials are not subject to medical privacy laws,

  81. 81.

    Another Scott

    May 7, 2022 at 10:21 pm

    @Peale: The monsters have already shown their hands while Roe is still on the books.

    MsMagazine (from April 16):

    Few details have emerged about what happened leading up to the arrest. But legal experts are trying to make sense of why the charges were brought and what this means for the future.

    The indictment stated that on January 7 Herrera did “intentionally and knowingly cause the death of an individual … by self-induced abortion.” The language of the indictment mirrors the Texas criminal homicide statute, Title 5, Chapter 19, of the Texas Penal Code. However, Chapter 19 explicitly exempts pregnant women from criminal charges under the law.

    “There are two possibilities. Either this was a really unforgivable accident or it was a deeply malicious and cynical ploy,” said Stephen Vladeck, a law professor at University of Texas, Austin. “To the former, how did so many people miss the plain language of the law? That’s pretty sobering. But the latter is, in some respects, worse. What does that say about the power of prosecutors. That knowing what the statute says, they could still try to pull this off. What’s worse: that the prosecutors didn’t read the statute or that they did?”

    Vladeck believes that the recent enactment of Senate Bill 8—and the Supreme Court allowing the law to go into effect—may have contributed to Herrera’s arrest.

    S.B. 8 purports to ban abortion at roughly six weeks with no exceptions for rape or incest. The law, however, is only enforceable by private parties bringing civil suits against people who “aid and abet” women to get an abortion and the law explicitly exempts pregnant women from prosecution. The U.S. Supreme Court and the Texas Supreme Court recently dismissed lawsuits attempting to block the blatantly unconstitutional law on grounds that it is not enforceable by the state. As a result, medical providers in Texas ceased offering abortion after six weeks in the state.

    Prosecutors will charge women if they feel like it, no matter what the law and rulings clearly say, and they have too much power to be arbitrary about it. Which reminds me, Popehat and others recommend a podcast – The Trials of Frank Carson (about a successful defense attorney who was railroaded and charged with murder).

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  82. 82.

    AM in NC

    May 7, 2022 at 10:22 pm

    @Poe Larity: Well when their entire profession is outlawed, maybe they can go to their plastic surgeon buddies to get a new face after the leopards have eaten it.

  83. 83.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 7, 2022 at 10:25 pm

    @Peale: They do that now.

    Lynn M. Paltrow and Jeanne Flavin, “Arrests of Pregnant Women in the United States, 1973-2005: Implications for Women’s Legal Status and Public Health”, Journal of Health Politics, Policy, and Law, 15 JAN 2013.

  84. 84.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 7, 2022 at 10:28 pm

    @Anne Laurie:

    can you imagine Matt Gaetz or Gym Jordan being kidnapped, anesthetized, and told upon awakening that the red seam on their bellies showed they were now pregnant?

    I’m not opposed to doing this now, implanting something large enough to be a 7 month fetus, but that is also inert that won’t lead to infection, and just sending them on their way. Just for shits and giggles.

  85. 85.

    Kay

    May 7, 2022 at 10:29 pm

    @Another Scott:

    The law, however, is only enforceable by private parties bringing civil suits against people who “aid and abet” women to get an abortion and the law explicitly exempts pregnant women from prosecution.

    I think this part is mostly moot now, given that three states are moving ahead with criminalizing abortion including charging the woman. Despite the sincere assurances Americans were given three days ago from the professional “pro life movement” employees that none of that would ever happen.

    They are simply not telling the truth about the possible consequences of these laws. We already know that and it’s ony been a week. It’s been trickery and bad faith from the get-go.

  86. 86.

    Peale

    May 7, 2022 at 10:30 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: unfortunately, we’re going to have to wait for a celebrity or two to die before the MSM will have to pay regular attention to these issues.

  87. 87.

    Another Scott

    May 7, 2022 at 10:32 pm

    @satby: When I was in grad school in Cincinnati, there was a reproductive health clinic down the hill from my apartment.  Quite often there were a dozen or so zealots out in front protesting.  IIRC, Randall Terry and Falwell were there a few times over a year or two, and the local TV press covered them – giving them the publicity they craved.  The place was firebombed at least once…  :-(

    The clinic tried to hold on, but they eventually moved out.

    We can’t let the monsters win, because (among other things) like a black hole they’re never satiated.

    We know that they don’t care about the commonweal, or the fate of all children in foster care or up for adoption (“show me your budget and I’ll tell you your values”).  They want to grow their tribe.  That’s it.

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  88. 88.

    Another Scott

    May 7, 2022 at 10:38 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: (I just downloaded a PDF copy of your dissertation from UF.)

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  89. 89.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 7, 2022 at 10:41 pm

    @Another Scott: You’ll notice in the filed copy I used the wrong statistical test. The brand spanking new, swore at his job talk that of course he’d make sure to answer the questions of everyone else’s dissertation candidates to ensure they’re using the right methods in their dissertations, asshat the department hired as the methods guru refused to do so. By the time we realized I needed the poisson model instead of OLS, everything had been signed, sealed, and delivered. The good news was that when I went back and reran it using the poisson model, the very good results I got were even better.

  90. 90.

    Urban Suburbanite

    May 7, 2022 at 10:43 pm

    @Anne Laurie: I think that was a Blacklist episode.

  91. 91.

    Another Scott

    May 7, 2022 at 10:45 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I think only about 3 people, on average, read a dissertation.  You’re lucky if your committee is among those 3!  ;-)

    What matters is doing the work and getting the dissertation typed up and done and accepted.  It’s part of the process.  The real work comes later, as you know.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  92. 92.

    Damien

    May 7, 2022 at 10:50 pm

    @Another Scott: After the books Adam has suggested to me being a real crash course in insurgencies, I would love to read it as well but I’m not sure where you found it?

  93. 93.

    Darkrose

    May 7, 2022 at 10:50 pm

    @satby: I never knew about the clinic near Woodson. My intro to the anti-abortion fanatics was at the Fine Arts Building in the Loop, where I went every Saturday for my piano lessons as a child, and I had to run a gauntlet of assholes shoving pictures of bloody fetuses in my face as a terrified 7-year-old because there was a Planned Parenthood office in the building. My mother was furious; I don’t remember, but I suspect an angry Black woman was not something they were prepared to deal with.

  94. 94.

    Another Scott

    May 7, 2022 at 10:55 pm

    @Damien: It was pretty easy to track down. Here’s the PDF (166 pages).

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  95. 95.

    mrmoshpotato

    May 7, 2022 at 11:06 pm

    Has anyone asked whether Citizens United is on the chopping block given corporate speech is not deeply rooted in our nation's history?If not, there's a reason for that, isn't there?#lawtwitter— Lawprofblawg (@lawprofblawg) May 5, 2022

  96. 96.

    Damien

    May 7, 2022 at 11:07 pm

    @Another Scott: My Google Fu may be a little weak tonight. But thank you! I’m going to read it right now

  97. 97.

    Another Scott

    May 7, 2022 at 11:11 pm

    @Damien: :-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  98. 98.

    Dopey-o

    May 7, 2022 at 11:15 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: It is going to include violence. Lots and lots of violence. And the worst thing about this is they want that violence. They are counting on that violence. They need that violence to feed their self righteousness and overzealotry.

    You have written that WW III began in 2014 with Russia’s invasion of eastern Ukraine.
    When did the Second American Civil War begin? The day Merrick Garland’s SCOTUS nomination was voided? Newt Gingrich’s Contract With America?

  99. 99.

    JaySinWa

    May 7, 2022 at 11:16 pm

    @Another Scott: It wasn’t easy for me, I tried any number of searches from the UF site. I suppose I should have just googled it. Thanks for the link.

  100. 100.

    Tenar Arha

    May 7, 2022 at 11:17 pm

    I know it’s the CDC’s language, but as soon as I read that, I realized that Alito reminds me of the Child Catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang

    I think it’s his eyes and pinched expression—or something.

  101. 101.

    The Lodger

    May 7, 2022 at 11:22 pm

    @Starfish: and the CDC report came out of the GWB administration. Just the type of research they wanted to do.

  102. 102.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 7, 2022 at 11:25 pm

    @Damien: @Another Scott: Please take this in the best possible manner: You need to get lives!

  103. 103.

    Another Scott

    May 7, 2022 at 11:25 pm

    @JaySinWa: ?

    I always start with Google.  Search on too many sites is broken.

    Glad to help!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  104. 104.

    Adam L Silverman

    May 7, 2022 at 11:26 pm

    @Dopey-o: The day the Republicans agreed to end Reconstruction in exchange for settling the presidential election in their favor.

  105. 105.

    Soprano2

    May 7, 2022 at 11:32 pm

    @Urban Suburbanite: It was. The woman who was doing it was using her rapist’s sperm. She kept him imprisoned in her basement. First time I was sympathetic to the Blacklister.

  106. 106.

    Rusty

    May 7, 2022 at 11:39 pm

    The “domestic supply” and “right kind of babies” stinks of eugenics.  The push against IVF is to drive demand for the amount of supply they want to generate by banning abortion.  Fertility treatments have driven down the number of couples that want to adopt because they can have their own.  The whole process they are pushing by banning abortion and IVF is revolting.

  107. 107.

    gene108

    May 8, 2022 at 12:00 am

    Thread’s probably dead but this is a good article. Read the whole thing.

    During oral arguments, Barrett, who is herself an adoptive mother, suggested that the existence of safe-haven laws and adoption in general rendered moot the pro-choice argument that abortion access protects women from “forced motherhood.” Rather, she continued, “the choice, more focused, would be between, say, the ability to get an abortion at 23 weeks, or the state requiring the woman to go 15, 16 weeks more and then terminate parental rights at the conclusion.”

    Critics quickly pointed out that safe-haven laws are so rarely used that in many states the number of infants relinquished through them each year can be counted in single digits. But the larger problem is more basic: the suggestion that adoption entails nothing more than several months of inconvenience before women can wash their hands of the entire ordeal profoundly fails to understand how relinquishment affects parents. After reporting on adoption issues for more than a decade, it’s clear to me that anyone who argues that adoption is a tidy solution to the abortion debate has never spoken with — or actually listened to — the people most affected by that decision.

    If you want to understand what using adoption as the solution to unplanned pregnancies looks like, you don’t need to look far. But you do need to look. There’s a long and ugly history in the U.S. of coercive and even forced adoption. From roughly 1945 to 1972 — the year before the Supreme Court’s original Roe v. Wade decision — somewhere between 1.5 million and 6 million women relinquished infants for adoption, often after being “sent away” to homes for unwed mothers, where many women faced brutal coercion, were prohibited from contact with outsiders, went through labor and gave birth in segregated sections of hospitals, and were urged to relinquish their newborns while recovering from anesthesia. Close to 80 percent of residents ended up being separated from the babies they delivered. But the fact that estimates of how many women were affected vary so widely testifies to how secretive these places were: liminal spaces where women were often forbidden from using their real names, in order to facilitate their return to society as though nothing had ever happened.

    Many of the women were told they would forget about the babies and go on to live fuller lives, says Ann Fessler, author of the groundbreaking oral history, “The Girls Who Went Away.” Instead, many experienced lifelong guilt, worry, trauma and the sort of unresolved grief that family members of missing persons endure. One 1999 medical review found that women who had relinquished children for adoption had “more grief symptoms than women who have lost a child to death.”

    https://www.salon.com/2022/05/03/adoption-makes-abortion-unnecessary-claims-the-right-thats-even-worse-than-it-sounds/

  108. 108.

    kalakal

    May 8, 2022 at 12:12 am

    @Adam L Silverman: The other Frank Herbert influence on them in their view of women  would be Hellstrom’s Hive.

     

     

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellstrom's_Hive

  109. 109.

    Lyrebird

    May 8, 2022 at 12:16 am

    @gene108: 
    Thanks, that’s a great reference. And there’s still so much more that’s horrific about her statement. Like going through 16 weeks of later pregnancy against your will is nothing? Even if you survive, it can take a huge toll physically and in every other area of life, like keeping a job for instance. Another thing that has changed about adoption since the 1970s is more recognition of the needs and risks of birth mothers who voluntarily choose that path. it’s not nothing. And someone has probably already said this, too, but so many abortions in the really late end of pregnancy are due to horrific health concerns, like fetus has less than 20% chance of living out a week kinds of concerns. I know this is immature but I sure hate the Bony Carrot.

  110. 110.

    Cacti

    May 8, 2022 at 12:23 am

    Reminds me of the chorus to the Liz Phair song “White Babies” (sung to the tune of My Bonny Lies Over the Ocean)

    My black market white baby dealer
    Is hunting around overseas
    My black market white baby dealer
    Brings back clean, fresh white babies to me
    Clean, fresh white babies to me

    My black market white baby dealer
    Is rooting around overseas
    My black market white baby dealer
    Kidnaps clean, fresh white babies for me
    Clean, fresh white babies for me

  111. 111.

    Damien

    May 8, 2022 at 12:26 am

    @Adam L Silverman: What the hell is a…is it pronounce Lee-feh?

  112. 112.

    EarthWind&Fire (formerly bluegirlfromwyo)

    May 8, 2022 at 12:39 am

    @satby: Because it was a black neughboehood, and the forced birthers didn’t care if abortions went on there.

     Yet Alito cried crocodile tears in his opinion about black women having the majority of abortions. I despise these people.

  113. 113.

    Another Scott

    May 8, 2022 at 1:31 am

    Short thread.

    Something to think about, what with five reactionary Catholics on the Supreme Court telling women what to do with their bodies: in 1978, Judge John Dooley, a devout Catholic, overturned Congress's ban on federal funding of abortions BECAUSE, he argued, it imposed religion…

    — Rick Perlstein (@rickperlstein) May 8, 2022

    Yup. The double think is strong with these RWNJs.

    (Via LOLGOP)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  114. 114.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us

    May 8, 2022 at 1:57 am

     

    @eversor: The party of Donald Trump and Matt Gaetz, that Grietens dude, and dozens of others I could name given a little thought… they’re the ones that want to criminalize sex out of wedlock? I guess Sammy is too dumb to look around and see what his fellow political travellers are up to in their spare time.

  115. 115.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    May 8, 2022 at 2:11 am

    Just crossed my mind, people were saying Alito was pushing this draft because he wants Roe over turn as his legacy and he is nearing the end.  But, you know, he’s a Catholic. I think Alito is deliberately going over the top to trigger a massive backlash so it will be over turn in Congress so he can present himself as a persecuted martyr.  This guy is after Catholic Sainthood. “St Alito, patron of judicial asshats” bleh.

  116. 116.

    Dangerman

    May 8, 2022 at 2:54 am

    @Spanky: Swiftly done.

  117. 117.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    May 8, 2022 at 3:17 am

    This is also about the MAGA racist “replacement theory”, that whites aren’t reproducing enough to remain the majority population.

  118. 118.

    oatler

    May 8, 2022 at 3:22 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    There were also Potrzebie buckets.

  119. 119.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    May 8, 2022 at 4:13 am

    @Another Scott: ​
      reminds me of the 1958 movie “The Last Hurrah”

    Remember the first day
    we took public office?

    Frank Skeffington is available to every
    man and woman in this state.

    Well,
    Let’s have a look at those candidates.

    Who’ve I got to beat?

    As I see it, there’s only one.
    Frank Collins.

    The rest are nebbishes.

    Didn’t I tell you
    about Collins?

    He’s agreed to sit this one out if we
    support him next term for the senate.

    Who is Willard Chase?

    Oh, that’s a laugh. President of
    the Planned Parenthood Association.

    And he wants to be
    mayor of this city (Boston)?

    An Arab would have a better chance
    of being mayor of Tel Aviv.

    The idea of individual reproductive rights was considered a punch line because…. (checks notes) … a quasi state religion.

  120. 120.

    satby

    May 8, 2022 at 5:31 am

    @gene108: @Lyrebird: Coney-Barrett gets no credit from me as an “adoptive mother”; her two adoptions were done in Haiti. Haiti has its own special history of child-trafficking called restavek, and just watching the adoptive kids vs her bio kids at her Rose Garden ceremony shows that the younger adoptive boy was “on duty” watching the youngest. 

  121. 121.

    Jake Gibson

    May 8, 2022 at 9:17 am

    @Kay:

    It was completely unsurprising that Josh? Duggar had been abusing his sisters and hooking up on “dating” site. It would have been surprising if some of those kids hadn’t been messed up sexually.

  122. 122.

    Jake Gibson

    May 8, 2022 at 9:24 am

    @Dopey-o:

    The 2nd Civil War began at Appomattox.

  123. 123.

    Jake Gibson

    May 8, 2022 at 9:26 am

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us:

    Sammy is rubbing his hands in glee.

  124. 124.

    Kathleen

    May 8, 2022 at 11:42 am

    @Another Scott: Thank you Sir! I downloaded it as well.

    There’s a Planned Parenthood clinic in Mt. Auburn in Cincinnati, not far from the UC campus. Every Saturday morning protesters gathered to pray the rosary. That was part of my regular running route and every time I passed them I would glare at them. I had to bite my tongue because I didn’t want to become a viral video.

  125. 125.

    Kathleen

    May 8, 2022 at 11:47 am

    @satby: L&O or L&O SVU had an episode about that. I am ashamed to say that it has taken those 2 shows to educate me about conditions I knew nothing about.

  126. 126.

    Matt

    May 8, 2022 at 12:15 pm

    (And when the less desirable commodities — the other-than-pale, the ‘defective’, the unlucky — age out of the Newborn pool, well… didn’t some guy named Swift have a free-market solution for that problem?)

    Nah, the Talibangelicals have a better idea: adopt brown kids and put them to work as domestic labor. Keep them under the stairs in a kennel. If they complain, beat them with a stick (because Jeebus).

  127. 127.

    wonkie

    May 8, 2022 at 1:39 pm

    I am puzzled by this sense that there is a shortage of children to adopt. My knowledge is antidotal but here it is: I have two sets of friends, married couples, who between them adopted four children right out of the hospital from teen aged mothers. No one is connected to a religious organization and no one paid tons of money. All families upper middle class. None of them knew the pregnant teens prior to the decision to adopt–though they did know of the teen while she was pregnant. I’m just confused as to why this was no big deal twenty or so years ago when the adoptions occurred here in the extended Seattle metro area. Just luck?

  128. 128.

    wonkie

    May 8, 2022 at 1:40 pm

    the couples were white, BTW. I also know of an African American family that adopted an African American baby again with a minimum of fuss and expense.

  129. 129.

    Daoud bin Daoud

    May 8, 2022 at 3:42 pm

    • @John Revolta: why should the Übermensch have to put up with inferior, non-Aryan merchandise? Get real!
  130. 130.

    Daoud bin Daoud

    May 8, 2022 at 3:45 pm

    @satby: Amy Coathanger Barrett didn’t adopt a child – she bought a child-slave.

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