"the domestic supply of infants" right in the draft.
It was NEVER about rescuing orphans in desperate need of safe homes. It has always been about forcibly creating them to meet demand for infants. #RoeVWade #abortion #adoption #adopteetwitter #BabyScoopEra pic.twitter.com/NDRJ7zQ2zd
— Donna Gratehouse Domestic Infant Supply 1968 model (@DonnaDiva) May 3, 2022
A very angry, very white woman approached a friend on escort duty at the local Planned Parenthood, held up an obviously Asian infant, and snarled “Because of people like you, I had to settle for *this*!”
That was at least thirty years ago (and I hope that poor child had some less toxic adults in its life). It’s never been a secret that a solid wedge of the anti-choice contingent is less-than-wealthy would-be parents outraged that their perceived consumer rights have been infringed. (“Respectable” media didn’t talk about it at the time, but during the appointment of Chief Judge Roberts, there was a lot of social media muttering about how rich guys like him could baby-shop in Ireland and have their newborn ‘purchases’ delivered through Central America. Maybe Roberts never saw those comments; I sincerely hope his now-grown kids haven’t run across them.)
Kids are commodities, according to the authoritarians. Some commodities are more valuable — some are so precious / potentially dangerous that sales must be rigorously policed — but how dare we non-authoritarians dismiss the sacred rights of (potential) parents to a steady supply of the commodities to which they are entitled?
No, it's "family values." https://t.co/s7BzkQ8ooo
— Jeff Fecke (@jkfecke) May 7, 2022
The thing about this phrase is that it's exactly the sort of language you might expect to set off alarm bells in QAnon circles, until you realize this is what QAnon thinks it's doing, at its core: fighting a turf war over the property rights to the domestic supply of infants. https://t.co/hEpMRx57FQ
— Alexandra Erin (She/Her) (@AlexandraErin) May 6, 2022
Opinion | Creating Free Markets For Selling Children Could Ease Sting of Roe Reversal
— New York Times Pitchbot (@DougJBalloon) May 7, 2022
(And when the less desirable commodities — the other-than-pale, the ‘defective’, the unlucky — age out of the Newborn pool, well… didn’t some guy named Swift have a free-market solution for that problem?)
Bright Spot In A Hard Week (Open Thread)
Obvious Russian Troll
DougJ is a bit too much on the nose there.
mrmoshpotato
Given how deplorable and atrocious this is, I’m surprised they didn’t write “the domestic supply of white infants”
MomSense
@Obvious Russian Troll:
INORITE
I was acquainted with one of the NYT kids in college. A good friend of mine dated her and was ooooh so impressed with the VIP treatment they got while in NYC. That’s when I started distancing myself from them. I think there is something very seductive and insidious about power and connections.
Spanky
Seems like a modest proposal to me.
debbie
If it kills me, I’m going to read tweets like this and only focus on the fact that they’ve at last overreached:
Poe Larity
Why are all the IVF docs I know such wingnuts? You’d think white infertility would be a feature for them.
Cameron
Just commodities like anything else….lima beans, kidney beans, human beans…..
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Debbie:
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
They’ve at last overreached. /grits teeth/
John Revolta
“Because of people like you, I had to settle for *this*!”
That’s some of the fucked-uppedest shit I ever heard. If I heard it anywhere else I wouldn’t even believe it.
dmsilev
I how long until the first round of iNFanT tokens hits the blockchain? Because I feel that’s basically inevitable at this point.
Barbara
@debbie:
They have turned Christianity into a fertility cult.
Starfish
@mrmoshpotato: This is from the literature on adoption, and YES the values are set exactly like that. Healthy newborns that the parents can pass off as their own are highly valued.
Some children in the adoption system are stolen and put there. Some children are sold by families who cannot afford to feed them.
The whole system is very gross, but adoption is better for kids than group homes.
Starfish
@Barbara: I thought the Quiverful movement did that with the whole Duggar television show that was cancelled around the time when one of the older boys was in trouble for being inappropriate with his sisters.
Princess Leia
My understanding is that the phrasing came from a CDC document on adoption.
Peale
Gay men, counter marching, holding up empty hands. Shouting back “Because of you, I had to settle for this.”
debbie
delk
Maybe they should pray harder and prey less.
Another Scott
nycsouthpaw says that there’s probably less here than meets the eye. Alito is citing a 2008 CDC report that uses 2002 data on people wanting to adopt.
There’s no doubt that the RWNJs are grasping at straws to say that, obviously,
everyone is a winner if they strike down Roe and Casey because more American babies in more happy American homes via the Magic of the Marketplace. Sure, people who want to adopt generally want to adopt kids kinda like them and there will never be enough such kids to meet demand, but it’s a stupid, category error, reason to try to restrict or outlaw abortions. And it intentionally ignores the fact that the abortions will still get done in the vast majority of cases (because women have abortions out of necessity not for whatever insane reason the RWNJs and their cynical enablers spout), but many, many more women will die in the process.
Grr…,
Scott.
FelonyGovt
So women are going to be unpaid and unwilling factory workers, part of the supply chain producing adoptable domestic infants. How fucked up is that.
Robin Goodfellow
Whoah, I did nazi this coming. Deplorable is too kind of a word. Your body my choice, finally the mask drops and we see what we are up against.
Revolting, despicable, amoral hypocrites. Just the sort of people Christ hated the most.
Raoul Paste
So what company is going to want to relocate to a state where birth control is virtually gone?
And boy, if you thought the incels were aggrieved before, just wait until their ranks explode
MomSense
@Starfish:
Older boy was busted for possession of child porn.
Starfish
@Another Scott: Here is a place where they show the photo of the source citation, which is from a CDC report.
debbie
@Barbara:
Maybe inbreeding really is a thing with them.
Kay
It’s interesting to me that there’s no discussion at all about the father’s rights in adoption. All of these anti-abortion people just breezily announce that if they can force the woman to give birth domestic supply of infants available will go up. That isn’t how it works. They know that isn’t how it works. Once the child is born the father can assert his parental rights. I’m wondering why they are deliberately misleading people about this issue, too.
It’s just dishonesty and trickery all the way down. They simply aren’t engaging with what will be very complicated legal issues. They know better. These anti-abortion national groups are flush with cash. They pay plenty of lawyers. Yet we get this oddly idiotic and simplistic analysis that is worse than you would get from any average practitioner. Go look up your state code on adoption and overlay it on top of this bullshit they’re spouting. The parts INTERACT.
Starfish
@MomSense: Was that before this?
debbie
@FelonyGovt:
Maybe that’s a way to slow them down. Demand compensation for being the incubator. Expenses, bill, stipend of $100,000…
Lapassionara
@Spanky: Hah. Yes.
Anne Laurie
@Starfish: Also: Some of those ‘crisis pregnancy centers’ that set up shop across from Planned Parenthood buildings are literally selling the infants they encourage desperate pregnant people to give up. They monitor the pregnancy, snatch up the newborn before the mother leaves the maternity ward, and then turn over the baby to a pre-selected Decent Christian (usually White) Couple who’ve paid them a hefty legal fee to “deal with the paperwork”, not to mention any icky contact with some slut whore who should’ve kept her legs closed in the first place…
You think I’m exaggerating? Look up the Chuz Lyf! propaganda about ‘supporting young girls faced with a difficult choice’. It’s baby-farming, but with all the bells & whistles of modern marketing.
MomSense
@Starfish:
Yes, I think they are at the sentencing phase after multiple delays.
ETA – no after that
Ladyracterinok
@Barbara:
A few months ago I had no internet access TV access. I listened to radio a lot .
From programs on the conservative Catholic radio station EWTN I heard many programs about the Catholic belief that abortion homosexuality and transgender aid are completely against Catholic doctrines.
I also learned that the Pope before Pope Benedict wrote that contraceptives damage women
The reason according to them that abortion is against God is that God told humans to “be fruitful and multiply”
No mention of feed the hungry, clothe the naked, heal the sick, welcome the stranger
Just have as many babies as possible
I I found that a strange statement of the Christian gospel that I learned in Sunday School.
scav
Given how fond they are of cheap & child labor, all the undesirable ones might age into group housing arrangements where the management can hire them out to help pay for their upkeep and teach them self-relience. I’m sure all the prison labor companies are looking to expand.
Jay
@MomSense:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_Kids_and_Counting
Peale
@debbie: I one of the most amazing film performances I ever watched was about a teen who was using skateboarding to help self-medicate for untreated depression. The actor so embodied the role that he had a different smile than he normally has. In one scene, the character skateboarding for the first time and needed to pull of the bodylanguage of someone who is doing something new transitioning into the joy of doing it into the elation of the endorphin rush within the framework of the characters smile. And he did so. Yeah…running in character…o.k. master thespian. Try ski jumping.
Kay
I suppose they’re misleading people because if they actually addressed the various rights in adoption, they would have to admit that “the mother” cannot unilaterally relinquish parental rights. In no state is this true. Then we would get into messy discussions of the reality of this, where the mother will be forced to carry the child and then her only choice will be to raise the child or turn the child over to the father.
That’s what will actually happen, despite what these very fancy lawyers are writing in their delusional opinions that ignore all existing law that will intersect with banning abortion. Again, every one of them knows better. The SCOTUS Justices know better, the well compensated legal teams at anti-abortion groups know better- they simply have decided to not engage at all with the complex consequences of their decisions.
They’re hoping they can hand wave Americans into not thinking about any of this until it happens. But it wil happen.
kalakal
That made me want to throw up. What a disgusting person
Bill Arnold
Yeah, a CDC document. From the previous thread:
Adoption Experiences of Women and Men and Demand for Children to Adopt by Women 18–44 Years of Age in the United States, 2002 (August, 2008, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Health Statistics)
(I didn’t look at Alito’s draft but had heard it was CDC language so searched on “domestic supply of infants” site:cdc.gov )
Jim, Foolish Literalist
the Turtle says the quiet part out loud…
Peale
@kalakal: On the plus side, one of the reason that there were a lot of Asian babies for adoption at one time was because there were lots of orphan producing events in places like Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos. So at least they aren’t advocating, say, restarting the Vietnamese war to get some orphans in the pipeline and more mothers into refugee camps.
LeftCoastYankee
This thread reminded me of the horrors of the Romanian orphanages under Ceaucescu (sp?).
Repub clowns won’t be bothered to even try to address the outcomes of their evil ideas. It is not improbable to have warehouses of unwanted, scarred children.
Kay
@Jay:
The grossest part to me about that was TLC. Jesus. Absolute scumbags. I know the Duggars would never cut off the TLC cash cow, but TLC was running a reality show promoting this abusive cult with active child predators.
Ladyracterinok
@Ladyracterinok:
John Paul II wrote that contraceptives severely harm women both psychologically and physically
Ksmiami
@Jay: the original groomers… amirite?
Another Scott
Barb Byrum at Eclectablog: (She’s Ingham County MI County Clerk)
We have the facts and justice and human dignity on our side. We need to use all of it.
Abba Eban said that “Men and nations behave wisely when they have exhausted all other resources” which has morphed into Churchill saying, “Americans can be counted on to do the right thing after all other choices have been exhausted.” Let’s hope that we do the work to do the right thing before then, this time.
Forward!!
Cheers,
Scott.
Mike in NC
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: If only Mitch McConnell’s mother had the good sense to have had an abortion way back when.
Suzanne
I will note that plenty of white Christians, probably including Amy Coney Barrett, have a white savior complex and are thrilled to adopt children of other races. It’s considered in some churches to be saving the children, to raise them in white Christian families.
They want infants, though, and they want closed, private, old-fashioned adoptions. Foster-to-adopt is a long, difficult road, and the kids that get adopted usually have some trauma, or health concerns, or disabilities that need lifelong care. I have multiple friends and acquaintances who have adopted foster children, and it was difficult for them all. It’s a long process, filled with uncertainty. One couple we’re friends with adopted a pair of brothers, and dad lost his job while the adoption was going through, and he had to maintain employment and couldn’t move out of state. He got a job out of state, and he had to commute for months until the adoption was final. And everyone I know who’s done it has to have “open” adoptions, and the birth parents all have some degree of contact. I understand why this is totally awful for adoptive families.
And yet, I know they just want move babies for infertile Christian couples and they can absolutely fuck right off.
If they want people to have more babies, they can pay people to have them.
MagdaInBlack
@Ladyracterinok: Yes, it makes us physically and psychologically free to get an education and a career without the constant concern of unplanned pregnancy, thus disrupting our true role of being mothers and so we will “never know what it is to be a woman” ( quoting my MIL) and that’s just craziness
( heavy sarcasm alert)
lgerard
@debbie:
Don’t for get to claim depreciation
japa21
It doesn’t matter that the CDC used the phrase first. It was used as a statement of fact, not a statement of policy. It was not an argument against abortion. Not even sure abortion was used as a cause of the “shortage”.
What matters is that it is being used as a rationale for taking away a right, which it is not. As Kay mentions, giving up a child that a woman was forced to carry to term requires consent on the part of the woman and the father. How do they plan to guarantee that these infants, many of which will be disabled or have other congenital “defects” like wrong color hair, wrong color skin, etc will even be adopted? And those that aren’t adopted, what are their plans for providing appropriate care? They don’t have them.
Don’t know if it has been mentioned before, but Pete Buttigieg had a great response to this whole thing. If you haven’t seen it, check it out
Adam L Silverman
@Barbara: It always was. Paul was a hellenized Jew from Tarsus who had failed to become a rabbi (pharisee), which is why every pronouncement and declaration of Judaic law he makes in his epistles are wrong. The local deity in Tarsus, where he spent the bulk of his life, was Ba’al Taraz: the hanged god. Ba’al Taraz was sacrificed every autumn by being hung upside down on a cross to ensure survival through the winter and resurrected every spring. Basically an ancient fertility tied to the harvest seasons deity and religion. Also, an ancient John Barleycorn. At its core, Pauline Christianity, which won the fight with all the other early variants, is basically a fusion of Jewish prophecy with ancient Mediterranean fertility religion.
Starfish
@Anne Laurie: Where I grew up, those crisis pregnancy centers were all that existed. It is the same state that has this case before the Supreme Court. ?
mrmoshpotato
@Starfish:
Agreed, but referring to human beings as “domestic supply” is fucking deplorable and disgusting.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Yes, this. I’ve been watching the Religious Right since they had a go at science in the ’00s and that’s the theme with them. They don’t give a shit about the consequences of their actions. that’s for us libertards to fix and they will hinder us every step of the way.
With these people the means are far more important than the end result.
Adam L Silverman
@Kay: They are counting on the surest bet you can place in America: that Americans, even educated ones, are morons!
From A&W’s website:
https://awrestaurants.com/blog/aw-third-pound-burger-fractions
japa21
@Adam L Silverman:
Full disclosure. I am a devout Christian, RC branch. But back in my mainline Protestant stage, even when I was at seminary studying to become a minister (long story as to why I didn’t) I had issues with Paul. I sometimes would sarcastically say ” Shouldn’t this be called Paulianity?”
All the tolerance that Christ exemplified is missing from Paul.
I occasionally have reason to go to Baptist churches (familial reasons) and almost never do they, for Bible readings, read from the Gospels. It is almost always from the Old Testament or Paul. Drives me crazy.
Starfish
@mrmoshpotato: The whole concept of healthy newborns being commodities for infertile parents is gross, but it is the way that it is. It has gotten slightly less bad in recent years, but it is still quite bad.
zhena gogolia
@Adam L Silverman: Hahaha
Mallard Filmore
@debbie:
That’s not gonna be how it works. The ant-abortionists get the glory of God, and dump the work, time, and expense on someone else. That’s how these people ‘take responsibility for their actions’.
Kay
@Adam L Silverman:
There’s going to be a major learning curve period for Americans, that’s for sure. Odd that none of these extremely fancy lawyers saw fit to even outline real world consequences, ever.
I worry that none of the stories will get told. That it will be just women dealing with this in isolation, and none of it will ever be connected to the changes in the laws. There was so little coverage of the real world changes in Texas, outside the Texas Tribune. I just don’t think media are much interested in it. If they were we probably wouldn’t have some of the highest rates of maternal mortality among “rich” countries, and we do. Why are all these women dying in childbirth or in the year past childbirth in the US? No one even asks.
Tony Gerace
When I become emperor I will ban the use of the term “Pro Life”. These are some of the worst people on the face of the earth. Atrios makes a good point in his blog. When the law defines a blastocyst as a person, doctors will avoid performing any medical procedure on a woman that might possibly result in a miscarriage. Women will suffer and die
Adam L Silverman
@japa21: As someone who is Jewish, was educated by the Jesuits and Methodists, and has a MA in comparative religion, I read Paul and I’m like: “what that guy knew about Judaism wouldn’t fit in a thimble!”
So I feel you. When I used to teach comparative western religions, as well as New Testament, I’d assign Father Nolan’s, SJ, Jesus Before Christianity. I’d also try to make sure to demonstrate the real, but largely ignored because the bulk of Christians are ignorant of Judaism as Judaism, places in the New Testament that are the connections back to Judaism. And provide explanations that make sense in regard to Judaism in general and Judaism in that time period in specific.
Adam L Silverman
What they want are Axlotl tanks. For those who have not read Dune and the subsequent sequels:
https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Axlotl_Tank
More at the link.
Adam L Silverman
@zhena gogolia: It’s funny because it’s true!
Kay
@Tony Gerace:
When women go for medical care one of the first questions is always “are you pregnant?” For obvious and good reasons, right? Now that’s a fucking terrifying question which might mean these people are going to follow you around and start monitoring your pregnancy. You’ll end up at mandatory Bible study in one of their “maternity homes”.
Peale
One of the things I think we need to start thinking about to mitigate these laws is what legal services we’re going to provide people questioned after miscarriages. Or will the police just get to start questioning people and getting records on people without an attorney.
The other thing I’m wondering about is how involved on an individual level we can be before becoming criminals ourselves. The penalties are going to be severe, for instance, to direct someone to a place where morning after pills are available. I think there’s going to be a lot of “known liberals” in red areas who are going to be asked questions like this as it will be assumed that the “liberal” will somehow know and be helpful.
Suzanne
@Starfish: Probably 25% of the couples that Mr. Suzanne and I are friends with used some sort of ART to have kids. And the GOP is coming for that shit, too. Egg and embryo freezing are in their sights. That…. will radicalize some people. By a lot.
eversor
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
If you look at any of the Christian Intellectuals, Dreher, Ahmari, Douthat, Metaxis, Peppin, Vermule, Deneen (I could name a few dozen) they have been open that they want everything. Ban abortion, remove all LGBTQ+ items, ban sodomy, ban non marital sex, ban birth control, promote chastity, get rid of promiscuity, large families, high fertility rates, prayer in schools, prayer in all government offices, mandated positions for Christians in corporations/acadamia/government, any mention of religious liberty is an automatic legal win, Christianity as a special protected class with special rights, the list goes on. And they view anything is not only allowed to do this, but should be done and must be done including violently installing a Franco and implementing integralism. And if they don’t get this they cannot live out their faith or pass it down which means well… killing is OK as well but it will all be the fault of the people who didn’t let Christians live out their faith.
Hell Bill Barr and Alito went on rants about this to donors and in speeches to colleges.
None of them have been hiding all this at all. But you need to listen to what’s coming out of the churches, not the RNC, or the GOP, or the donors.
Suzanne
@Kay: I’m seeing advice to delete period tracking apps, as that information could become discoverable by law enforcement.
MagdaInBlack
@Adam L Silverman: Oh lord, I’ve been thinking about those tanks myself.
japa21
@eversor: That word intellectual is really stretching it.
satby
@Another Scott: In 1975, as a student in an all white, Catholic hospital nursing school, the speaker from the Right to Life organization told the assembly that if “we don’t reverse Roe, in a decade white people will be minorities in our own country”.
There was a clinic a mile east of me on Halsted across from the Woodson Library. Never had protesters or threats that I was aware of, and I was a twice weekly literacy tutor at that library for a couple of years. Because it was a black neughboehood, and the forced birthers didn’t care if abortions went on there.
Damien
I mean, as gross as it is maybe the answer is to sue against a state law based on the idea that the state can’t force a citizen to do unpaid labor. I dunno, wrap it up in the whole commerce clause thing and make it an economic argument to attack for human rights in a way that could potentially get even the liberal New Republic on board.
I don’t know, but I do know the answer is not to give up
Suzanne
@eversor: I read some of those guys to keep tabs on them…. And you are 100% right about what they want. They want women breeding and dependent and sexually available, without threat to their social position.
The irony is that Dreher just announced his divorce and I can only imagine why.
Villago Delenda Est
@japa21:
These people hate Matthew. 6:5 totally gets in the way of their performative horseshit.
Anne Laurie
@Adam L Silverman: Many years ago, there was a brief spasm of interest in developing ‘artificial wombs’ that could be implanted in male bodies. Another ex-Catholic friend & I had a whole shtick about the Order of St. Gerard, where devout Catholic men could choose a career of implantations / caesareans to “save” those unwanted ‘aborted’ babies.
Or (Murphy forbid) if we want to sink to RWNJ levels… can you imagine Matt Gaetz or Gym Jordan being kidnapped, anesthetized, and told upon awakening that the red seam on their bellies showed they were now pregnant?
(No, it’s not scientifically possible. But are those guys bright enough to understand that?)
Jay
@Adam L Silverman:
A&W in Canada has a new prime rib burger out there, ( grass fed, free range)
I want to eat it, with a side of onion rings.
Adam L Silverman
@Kay: The major national mainstream news media outlets will take their cues, like they always do from The NY Times. And the NYT is going to do its usual excellent job of screwing this up. But the female reporters (print, television, and radio in the case of NPR) and photojournalists and editors and bookers, etc will also all know they can no longer safely travel outside of where they’re already located. Primarily the New York metro area and DC. So they’re not going to actually be on site in places like Texas or GA or MS or ID, etc to actually cover the horrors that are going to take place. And, as a result, those horrors won’t get covered.
I wrote my doctoral dissertation on anti-abortion terrorism. You can’t read it anywhere because not a single academic press at the time, nor academic journal was interested in even sending it out for peer review to see if it could be published. I was told it was too controversial, that you can’t use empirical social science theory to explain terrorism, and you certainly can’t build an empirical model out of it to statistically test if its valid. Also, despite using the correct test for small n, non-linear data – a poisson distribution – I was using the wrong test.
So it sets on the shelf in the special collection section of the UF library and you can, if you like, buy a copy from Michigan Microforms. Because every dissertation is required to be filed with the latter. They’ll sell you a copy, charge you a pretty penny for it too. I don’t get a dime. I have no idea if anyone has ever tried to buy a copy.
But I can tell you, with a lot of knowledge learned from doing that dissertation project, that people do not want to think about the issue. Even those that want to be legal because they might need it. They don’t want to hear that Judaism requires an abortion to save the life and health of the mother, despite what the ultra-orthodox sects started claiming after the Holocaust. They don’t want to hear that Islam allows them up until about the 16-18th week of pregnancy. They don’t want to hear that the Catholic Church actually requires them, using the same bioethical logic and citations as Judaism actually does, in the case of ectopic pregnancy and, at the same time, recognizing in the Catholic bioethical literature that the prohibition in all other cases is an error based on a mistranslation of the biblical texts being cited in case of ectopic pregnancy (they left a not out!). They don’t want to hear about the threats and the violence to people who work or are patients at medical practices that have nothing to do with abortion because the idiots protesting can’t understand the difference between types of medical practice.
The horrors that are coming won’t be limited to women being maimed or killed because they can’t get the care they need. Or being maimed and killed trying to self induce an abortion. Or even because self righteous and overzealous medical professionals, law enforcement, and judges are going to make even the possibility of being pregnant something that falls under the court’s jurisdiction leading women who are not pregnant to have their rights curtailed because they could be pregnant, as well as women who are pregnant having their rights curtailed because they are. It is going to include violence. Lots and lots of violence. And the worst thing about this is they want that violence. They are counting on that violence. They need that violence to feed their self righteousness and overzealotry.
Villago Delenda Est
@Kay: Lebensborn
Kay
@Suzanne:
They’ve already done it in Missouri. 2019:
So they have the capacity and state law reach already. They just need a “safety” excuse. There are scads of those.
Another Scott
@Peale: The monsters have already shown their hands while Roe is still on the books.
MsMagazine (from April 16):
Prosecutors will charge women if they feel like it, no matter what the law and rulings clearly say, and they have too much power to be arbitrary about it. Which reminds me, Popehat and others recommend a podcast – The Trials of Frank Carson (about a successful defense attorney who was railroaded and charged with murder).
Grr…,
Scott.
AM in NC
@Poe Larity: Well when their entire profession is outlawed, maybe they can go to their plastic surgeon buddies to get a new face after the leopards have eaten it.
Adam L Silverman
@Peale: They do that now.
Lynn M. Paltrow and Jeanne Flavin, “Arrests of Pregnant Women in the United States, 1973-2005: Implications for Women’s Legal Status and Public Health”, Journal of Health Politics, Policy, and Law, 15 JAN 2013.
Adam L Silverman
@Anne Laurie:
I’m not opposed to doing this now, implanting something large enough to be a 7 month fetus, but that is also inert that won’t lead to infection, and just sending them on their way. Just for shits and giggles.
Kay
@Another Scott:
I think this part is mostly moot now, given that three states are moving ahead with criminalizing abortion including charging the woman. Despite the sincere assurances Americans were given three days ago from the professional “pro life movement” employees that none of that would ever happen.
They are simply not telling the truth about the possible consequences of these laws. We already know that and it’s ony been a week. It’s been trickery and bad faith from the get-go.
Peale
@Adam L Silverman: unfortunately, we’re going to have to wait for a celebrity or two to die before the MSM will have to pay regular attention to these issues.
Another Scott
@satby: When I was in grad school in Cincinnati, there was a reproductive health clinic down the hill from my apartment. Quite often there were a dozen or so zealots out in front protesting. IIRC, Randall Terry and Falwell were there a few times over a year or two, and the local TV press covered them – giving them the publicity they craved. The place was firebombed at least once… :-(
The clinic tried to hold on, but they eventually moved out.
We can’t let the monsters win, because (among other things) like a black hole they’re never satiated.
We know that they don’t care about the commonweal, or the fate of all children in foster care or up for adoption (“show me your budget and I’ll tell you your values”). They want to grow their tribe. That’s it.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@Adam L Silverman: (I just downloaded a PDF copy of your dissertation from UF.)
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: You’ll notice in the filed copy I used the wrong statistical test. The brand spanking new, swore at his job talk that of course he’d make sure to answer the questions of everyone else’s dissertation candidates to ensure they’re using the right methods in their dissertations, asshat the department hired as the methods guru refused to do so. By the time we realized I needed the poisson model instead of OLS, everything had been signed, sealed, and delivered. The good news was that when I went back and reran it using the poisson model, the very good results I got were even better.
Urban Suburbanite
@Anne Laurie: I think that was a Blacklist episode.
Another Scott
@Adam L Silverman: I think only about 3 people, on average, read a dissertation. You’re lucky if your committee is among those 3! ;-)
What matters is doing the work and getting the dissertation typed up and done and accepted. It’s part of the process. The real work comes later, as you know.
Cheers,
Scott.
Damien
@Another Scott: After the books Adam has suggested to me being a real crash course in insurgencies, I would love to read it as well but I’m not sure where you found it?
Darkrose
@satby: I never knew about the clinic near Woodson. My intro to the anti-abortion fanatics was at the Fine Arts Building in the Loop, where I went every Saturday for my piano lessons as a child, and I had to run a gauntlet of assholes shoving pictures of bloody fetuses in my face as a terrified 7-year-old because there was a Planned Parenthood office in the building. My mother was furious; I don’t remember, but I suspect an angry Black woman was not something they were prepared to deal with.
Another Scott
@Damien: It was pretty easy to track down. Here’s the PDF (166 pages).
Cheers,
Scott.
mrmoshpotato
Damien
@Another Scott: My Google Fu may be a little weak tonight. But thank you! I’m going to read it right now
Another Scott
@Damien: :-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Dopey-o
You have written that WW III began in 2014 with Russia’s invasion of eastern Ukraine.
When did the Second American Civil War begin? The day Merrick Garland’s SCOTUS nomination was voided? Newt Gingrich’s Contract With America?
JaySinWa
@Another Scott: It wasn’t easy for me, I tried any number of searches from the UF site. I suppose I should have just googled it. Thanks for the link.
Tenar Arha
I know it’s the CDC’s language, but as soon as I read that, I realized that Alito reminds me of the Child Catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang
I think it’s his eyes and pinched expression—or something.
The Lodger
@Starfish: and the CDC report came out of the GWB administration. Just the type of research they wanted to do.
Adam L Silverman
@Damien: @Another Scott: Please take this in the best possible manner: You need to get lives!
Another Scott
@JaySinWa: ?
I always start with Google. Search on too many sites is broken.
Glad to help!
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@Dopey-o: The day the Republicans agreed to end Reconstruction in exchange for settling the presidential election in their favor.
Soprano2
@Urban Suburbanite: It was. The woman who was doing it was using her rapist’s sperm. She kept him imprisoned in her basement. First time I was sympathetic to the Blacklister.
Rusty
The “domestic supply” and “right kind of babies” stinks of eugenics. The push against IVF is to drive demand for the amount of supply they want to generate by banning abortion. Fertility treatments have driven down the number of couples that want to adopt because they can have their own. The whole process they are pushing by banning abortion and IVF is revolting.
gene108
Thread’s probably dead but this is a good article. Read the whole thing.
https://www.salon.com/2022/05/03/adoption-makes-abortion-unnecessary-claims-the-right-thats-even-worse-than-it-sounds/
kalakal
@Adam L Silverman: The other Frank Herbert influence on them in their view of women would be Hellstrom’s Hive.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellstrom's_Hive
Lyrebird
@gene108:
Thanks, that’s a great reference. And there’s still so much more that’s horrific about her statement. Like going through 16 weeks of later pregnancy against your will is nothing? Even if you survive, it can take a huge toll physically and in every other area of life, like keeping a job for instance. Another thing that has changed about adoption since the 1970s is more recognition of the needs and risks of birth mothers who voluntarily choose that path. it’s not nothing. And someone has probably already said this, too, but so many abortions in the really late end of pregnancy are due to horrific health concerns, like fetus has less than 20% chance of living out a week kinds of concerns. I know this is immature but I sure hate the Bony Carrot.
Cacti
Reminds me of the chorus to the Liz Phair song “White Babies” (sung to the tune of My Bonny Lies Over the Ocean)
My black market white baby dealer
Is hunting around overseas
My black market white baby dealer
Brings back clean, fresh white babies to me
Clean, fresh white babies to me
My black market white baby dealer
Is rooting around overseas
My black market white baby dealer
Kidnaps clean, fresh white babies for me
Clean, fresh white babies for me
Damien
@Adam L Silverman: What the hell is a…is it pronounce Lee-feh?
EarthWind&Fire (formerly bluegirlfromwyo)
Yet Alito cried crocodile tears in his opinion about black women having the majority of abortions. I despise these people.
Another Scott
Short thread.
Yup. The double think is strong with these RWNJs.
(Via LOLGOP)
Cheers,
Scott.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us
@eversor: The party of Donald Trump and Matt Gaetz, that Grietens dude, and dozens of others I could name given a little thought… they’re the ones that want to criminalize sex out of wedlock? I guess Sammy is too dumb to look around and see what his fellow political travellers are up to in their spare time.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Just crossed my mind, people were saying Alito was pushing this draft because he wants Roe over turn as his legacy and he is nearing the end. But, you know, he’s a Catholic. I think Alito is deliberately going over the top to trigger a massive backlash so it will be over turn in Congress so he can present himself as a persecuted martyr. This guy is after Catholic Sainthood. “St Alito, patron of judicial asshats” bleh.
Dangerman
@Spanky: Swiftly done.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
This is also about the MAGA racist “replacement theory”, that whites aren’t reproducing enough to remain the majority population.
oatler
@Adam L Silverman:
There were also Potrzebie buckets.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@Another Scott:
reminds me of the 1958 movie “The Last Hurrah”
The idea of individual reproductive rights was considered a punch line because…. (checks notes) … a quasi state religion.
satby
@gene108: @Lyrebird: Coney-Barrett gets no credit from me as an “adoptive mother”; her two adoptions were done in Haiti. Haiti has its own special history of child-trafficking called restavek, and just watching the adoptive kids vs her bio kids at her Rose Garden ceremony shows that the younger adoptive boy was “on duty” watching the youngest.
Jake Gibson
@Kay:
It was completely unsurprising that Josh? Duggar had been abusing his sisters and hooking up on “dating” site. It would have been surprising if some of those kids hadn’t been messed up sexually.
Jake Gibson
@Dopey-o:
The 2nd Civil War began at Appomattox.
Jake Gibson
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us:
Sammy is rubbing his hands in glee.
Kathleen
@Another Scott: Thank you Sir! I downloaded it as well.
There’s a Planned Parenthood clinic in Mt. Auburn in Cincinnati, not far from the UC campus. Every Saturday morning protesters gathered to pray the rosary. That was part of my regular running route and every time I passed them I would glare at them. I had to bite my tongue because I didn’t want to become a viral video.
Kathleen
@satby: L&O or L&O SVU had an episode about that. I am ashamed to say that it has taken those 2 shows to educate me about conditions I knew nothing about.
Matt
Nah, the Talibangelicals have a better idea: adopt brown kids and put them to work as domestic labor. Keep them under the stairs in a kennel. If they complain, beat them with a stick (because Jeebus).
wonkie
I am puzzled by this sense that there is a shortage of children to adopt. My knowledge is antidotal but here it is: I have two sets of friends, married couples, who between them adopted four children right out of the hospital from teen aged mothers. No one is connected to a religious organization and no one paid tons of money. All families upper middle class. None of them knew the pregnant teens prior to the decision to adopt–though they did know of the teen while she was pregnant. I’m just confused as to why this was no big deal twenty or so years ago when the adoptions occurred here in the extended Seattle metro area. Just luck?
wonkie
the couples were white, BTW. I also know of an African American family that adopted an African American baby again with a minimum of fuss and expense.
Daoud bin Daoud
Daoud bin Daoud
@satby: Amy Coathanger Barrett didn’t adopt a child – she bought a child-slave.