Religious shelter for pedophiles and abusers of vulnerable children denies communion to those who would decrease its supply of victims. https://t.co/aemZxXI31o
— DPRK News Service (@DPRK_News) May 21, 2022
Assuming you’re the kind of Catholic who assumes the Pope is the God-anointed leader of His church:
*pope francis standing athwart the abortion controversy yelling BE NORMAL* https://t.co/lX9x341NMb
— a nosy archaeologist says vote AND (@merovingians) May 20, 2022
Of course, there seems to be some questions about Archbishop Leone’s general fitness to make judgements about other peoples’ failings…
“Consider the source,” is one of those warhorse phrases that needs to be used more. https://t.co/v0jPzGhyJW pic.twitter.com/oVf0JAkJ4U
— Schooley (@Rschooley) May 21, 2022
I’ve assumed since I last attended Mass (as part of my parochial high school’s graduation ceremony) that there was eventually going to be a schism between the Pope in Rome and the barons – I mean, bishops — in the United States. Of course, back in the early 1970s, I thought it would be relatively ‘leftwing’ American Catholics leaving an increasingly sclerotic global Holy Mother Church, not a bunch of increasingly angry American clergyMEN trying to protect their little fiefdoms at all costs…
I was raised catholic; this kind of stuff is what convinces thoughtful people that Actually Organized Religion is Bad
— Gerry Doyle (@mgerrydoyle) May 22, 2022
the median catholic churchgoer in america has views quite close to joe biden. The median american catholic bishop or archbishop has views much closer to rod fucking dreher.
— a nosy archaeologist says vote AND (@merovingians) May 20, 2022
Between this and sending lobbyists to state legislatures to lobby against extending the statute of limitations for child molestation claims, how are they still tax exempt.
— Moment Meeter (@agraybee) May 21, 2022
EDITORIAL: We appeal to @Pontifex to send a clear message that he, not Archbishop Cordileone, is the leader of the faith. He can do this by relieving this insubordinate saboteur of his duties in San Francisco and putting an end to his political schemes. https://t.co/uibwQ80zVj
— SF Examiner (@sfexaminer) May 21, 2022
… Cordileone seeks to deprive her of a key component of her faith, but where is his zeal for punishment and purity when it comes to right-wing politicians? Why don’t Republican Catholics have to fear being cut off from Communion when they vote against health care or funding for the poor? Where was Cordileone’s harsh judgment when right-wing politicians voted this week against a measure to ease the nation’s baby formula shortage?
Pelosi has consistently fought on the morally right side of these issues. Why is she being singled out for punishment in her hometown, especially when she can still receive Communion in Washington, D.C. or Oakland?
The answer is that Cordileone’s chief loyalty is not to Christ, but to the cabal of far-right American bishops led by Raymond Leo Burke, a Catholic prelate who has led a continual campaign to undermine Pope Francis’ authority.
In light of Cordileone’s resurgent efforts to create discord, we repeat the call for Pope Francis to remove him and replace him with a leader who can unify rather than divide. Cordileone’s radical conservative politics might attract more people to the faith in places like Oklahoma or Texas, but his partisan pomposity will win no converts in San Francisco. His placement here was a cruel strategy meant to bedevil our community and set up exactly the kind of destructive political games unfolding today.
It is Nancy Pelosi, not Archbishop Cordileone, who reflects the true spirit of Christian care in the City of St. Francis. For the Catholic Church to continue to thrive here, we need a leader who opens the church’s doors to all, not a small-minded man who locks out his political adversaries…
Pope Francis last year:
"I have never denied Communion to anyone." https://t.co/M0tUlZ3RIl— James Martin, SJ (@JamesMartinSJ) May 21, 2022
… “I have never denied Communion to anyone,” Pope Francis revealed in answer to one of my questions on the flight back from Bratislava to Rome, Sept. 15. It was a significant revelation coming at a time when a group of bishops in the United States are pushing to deny Communion to pro-choice politicians, including President Joe Biden. Francis appears to be sending a very different message—and it was not the only one.
He sent a second strong message in answer to my other question about the heated discussion regarding denial of Communion to pro-choice politicians, when he called on bishops to be “pastors,” not politicians. I was struck by this because over the past year, I have heard several Vatican officials ask: “Why can’t the American bishops be pastors not politicians?”…
“When the church, in order to defend a principle, acts in a non-pastoral way, it takes sides on the political plane, it has always been so,” Francis said. He asked, “What must a pastor do?” and responded: “Be a pastor. Don’t go condemning. Be a pastor because he is a pastor also for the excommunicated.” Bishops, he said, should be “pastors with God’s style, which is closeness, compassion and tenderness.”…
debbie
This is the archbishop who got busted at a DUI checkpoint.
Wish I could find it now, but a priest posted a letter he sent to the archbishop on Twitter reminding him it wasn’t his table to forbid people from attending.
Tony Jay
‘Insubordinate saboteur’.
Well said, SF Examiner. Well said.
Purple Gobshite Cordileone should be recalled to Rome and, on arrival at the airport, be handed a Bible, an anorak and a copy of Sir Crispen Millsworthy’s 1921 classic ‘Observations on the Feeding Habits of the Polar Bear’ and told he’s the new Papal Emissary to an ice floe off the coast of Nunavit.
May your sour God go with you, fucknuckles.
Yutsano
He seems nice…
Kay
Claire McCaskill
@clairecmc
· May 21
A Mo legislator that represents a college town:”There are some that I think are okay and some that I don’t believe in,”Sen. Hoskins,R-Warrensburg, said of contraceptives,”especially the morning after pill and things that come after conception. So I think anything’s on the table.”
The anti-abortion movement will be right up in everyone’s business, declaring which birth control methods are off limits to American women.
They are exactly as authoritarian and controlling as we said they were, and anyone who scolded the people who knew it and tried to warn others should apologize.
Republican women who think their lives won’t change under the rule of religious fudamentalists are delusional. You don’t just get abortion bans- you get the entire far Right cultural agenda. They want to push us back 50 years.
Kay
Anti-abortion activists say it MAY be ok for men to use condoms- they’re waiting for a ruling from the clerics council.
Anything other than condoms? Forget it. They’re inserting themselves into that decision too.
It’s not enough that they’re peering over the physician’s shoulder in the
examing room- now they want to push their way into your home and
examine what birth control you use.
Someone has to back these people off. There should be a special restraining order.
Baud
‘@Kay
Women on the pill will be denied communion by this time next year.
debbie
Found it! Here’s a thread of that letter to the archbishop:
https://twitter.com/repthompson/status/1528035259153010688?s=21&t=XRV6vlkqcFBmc4hCI6l9wA
Hildebrand
The archbishop, who clearly gives not a fig about anything nice young chap from Nazareth ever said or did, could use a trip to Rome for a lovely chat with our resident Pope Francis – the Jesuits have always had a knack for this kind of thing.
Of course, if ‘worthiness’ were actually the criteria for being admitted to the eucharist, the Archbishop would be last in line.
Scout211
San Francisco Examiner Editorial:
https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/editorial-attack-on-nancy-pelosi-should-be-san-francisco-archbishops-final-act-here/
“ Seven years later, Cordileone’s efforts to sow division and politicize the faith have intensified. Now, he has trained his sights on Speaker Pelosi, a woman who has worked tirelessly to improve the lives of the poor, the suffering and the oppressed —and who is a role model for women all over the world.
Cordileone seeks to deprive her of a key component of her faith, but where is his zeal for punishment and purity when it comes to right-wing politicians? Why don’t Republican Catholics have to fear being cut off from Communion when they vote against health care or funding for the poor? Where was Cordileone’s harsh judgment when right-wing politicians voted this week against a measure to ease the nation’s baby formula shortage?
Pelosi has consistently fought on the morally right side of these issues. Why is she being singled out for punishment in her hometown, especially when she can still receive Communion in Washington, D.C. or Oakland?
The answer is that Cordileone’s chief loyalty is not to Christ, but to the cabal of far-right American bishops led by Raymond Leo Burke, a Catholic prelate who has led a continual campaign to undermine Pope Francis’ authority.
In light of Cordileone’s resurgent efforts to create discord, we repeat the call for Pope Francis to remove him and replace him with a leader who can unify rather than divide. Cordileone’s radical conservative politics might attract more people to the faith in places like Oklahoma or Texas, but his partisan pomposity will win no converts in San Francisco. His placement here was a cruel strategy meant to bedevil our community and set up exactly the kind of destructive political games unfolding today.”
Grumpy Old Railroader
Totally off topic but has anyone else noticed or remarked that embedded Tweets load much faster on this site than they do on original BJ?
Scout211
‘@Scout211
Oops, I now see that Anne Laurie excerpted most of this editorial in her post. Sorry for the redundancy. I need to read the whole post.
Kay
Baud May 22, 2022 at 7:02 PM
@Kay
Women on the pill will be denied communion by this time next year.
I love the continued frantic denials by Right leaning pundits.
They’re not trustworthy people and no one should listen to them. They
CONSISTENTLY minimize and dismiss risk and they have been making poor predictions on “worst case” since 2016.
Twenty years of center Right pundits tendentiously scolding the women who predicted exactly what is happening and not one of them has admitted error or apologized. They were wrong. It’s exactly as bad as we said it would be.
Baud
‘@Scout211
I think she added it after that post went up, so might not be your fault for missing it.
Kay
I want a specific statute- a right of action- that I can use to keep authoritiarian religious zealots OUT of my business. I don’t want them in the doctors office with me and I don’t want them poking around in my medical records, peering into my windows, or weighing in on what birth control methods meet their religious tests.
We should be protected from them.
WaterGirl
‘@Grumpy Old Railroader
I will point out that this site is not connected to the 6.5 million comments we have on the real Balloon Juice. Plus, I think people are being careful to not have as many tweets in one post on this site. Though I have to admit that this little site seems to be holding up very well.
Gin & Tonic
Dragging this up from downstairs, since an Open Thread is a better fit.
Way OT, but you folks know everything. I found a turtle in my back yard, looked like it was digging a hole, presumably to lay eggs. Is there anything I can or should do to protect those eggs from local predators (squirrels, etc.)?
Scout211
I’m sensing a theme here . . .
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/Bombshell-400-page-report-finds-Southern-Baptist-17190816.php
“ For 20 years, leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention — including a former president now accused of sexual assault — routinely silenced and disparaged sexual abuse survivors, ignored calls for policies to stop predators, and dismissed reforms that they privately said could protect children but might cost the SBC money if abuse victims later sued.
Those are just a few findings of a bombshell, third-party investigation into decades of alleged misconduct by Southern Baptist leaders that was released Sunday, nearly a year after 15,000 SBC church delegates demanded their executive committee turn over confidential documents and communications as part of an independent review of abuse reports that were purportedly mishandled or concealed since 2000.
The historic, nearly 400-page report details how a small, insular and influential group of leaders “singularly focused on avoiding liability for the SBC to the exclusion of other considerations” to prevent abuse. The report was published by Guidepost Solutions, an independent firm that conducted 330 interviews and reviewed two decades of internal SBC files in the seven-month investigation.“
Anne Laurie
‘@Scout211 — Sorry about that! I thought I had the American Examiner tweet & extract posted, but this particular iteration of FYWP decided against me on the first pass.
This is a *different* process than I’m used to, and my aging brain HATES different…
JanieM
‘@Kay — “I want a specific statute- a right of action- that I can use to keep authoritiarian religious zealots OUT of my business.”
I’ll hop onto that bandwagon.
Back when we were having one statewide vote after another in Maine on gay rights or marriage, I kept wondering why no one talks about how if freedom “of” religion means anything, it must also mean freedom “from” religion. I.e. I get to live by my own beliefs, not someone else’s.
Carlo Graziani
They say that abstinence makes the Church grow fondlers…
Scout211
‘@Gin&Tonic
How to build a turtle nest cage:
https://wiatri.net/Inventory/WiTurtles/Volunteer/Images/ProtectingTurtleNests.pdf
TxTiger
“Cordileone seeks to deprive her of a key component of her faith, but where is his zeal for punishment and purity when it comes to right-wing politicians? Why don’t Republican Catholics have to fear being cut off from Communion when they vote against health care or funding for the poor? ”
I have long wondered why Gov. Greg Abbott in Texas, a Catholic, is not publicly berated by the Bishop of Austin for his position on the death penalty.
WaterGirl
‘@Kay
I don’t suppose there is a way for a zillion women to file for an order of protection against violations of privacy?
Kay
In case you want to keep track, just since the leak of the draft opinion anti-abortion acitivists have told the public three lies:
“It will go back to the states” – lie- they are planning federal legislation
“It won’t affect birth control” – lie number two- they are obviously discussing banning contracteption
“There won’t be punishments for women” – lie number three, they will absolutely pass state laws with criminal sanctions for women- they can’t wait.
Everything they have told the public since the leak is a lie. Their assurances and promises are worth nothing.
Gin & Tonic
‘@Kay – I was visiting my mother-in-law yesterday and had to go to Lowe’s for her. It’s all pretty hard-core MAGAville there, so I was surprised when I was exiting the store to see a middle-aged woman heading in wearing a t-shirt with very large letters saying “MIND YOUR OWN UTERUS.”
Gin & Tonic
‘@Scout211 – Thanks. Off to the hardware store tomorrow.
Kay
Scout211 May 22, 2022 at 7:18 PM
I’m sensing a theme here . .
I don’t know why the giant Southern Baptist abuse scandal didn’t get more media coverage. It’s just weird that it was all but ignored. They’ll have 15 stories, a podcast and a Netflix special on just about anything but for some reason that just went unexamined.
There was another one, too. There was a huge child abuse scandal in a national fundamentalist home schooling community that has hundreds of thousands of members that was horrendous- girls who were trapped in it blew the whistle but it got zero media coverage.
Baud
‘@Kay
No wonder they are so focused on projecting their sins onto Democrats.
Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)
Scout211 May 22, 2022 at 7:23 PM
replying to @Gin&Tonic
That turtle protector looks good.
But remember it’s important not to shade the nest from the sun, as incubation temperature determines the sex of the baby turtles!
dc
You can’t deny something to someone if they’ve never asked you for it. I seriously doubt that Pelosi attends mass anywhere this person officiates or has control over. I’ve read there are Jesuit controlled places where she could (and probably does) go to mass and receive communion (should she so desire).
dexwood
‘@G&T – Scout has the right idea. The problem with that cover is that once the turtles hatch they can simply walk away making them vulnerable to all kinds of predators from birds to cats & dogs to kids. They’re no larger than a fifty cent piece. I use old, metal milk crates placed upside down after wrapping the ground side in four inches , or so, of window screen or half-inch hardware cloth. That allows me to monitor their emergence from the earth and transfer them to safer ground.
Kay
Judd Legum
@JuddLegum
·
7h
Hershel Walker, the presumptive GOP nominee for U.S. Senate in Georgia, says he supports a total abortion ban with no exceptions for rape, incest, or health of the mother.
“There’s no exception in my mind. Like I say, I believe in life.”
Serial domestic violence perpetrator Hershal Walker is the perfect spokesperson for the anti-abortion movement.
He believes in “life”, just not women’s lives.
piratedan
‘@ Kay
yeah, you kind of sense a pattern dont ya? sexual scandals with the GOP and their religious supporters…. sure they publish it but it doesn’t drive anything … but e-mails…. holy shit they ran with that for months… hey Trump had multiple rape, sexual assault, stiffing contractors, illegal financial shit going on… sure it gets mentioned but as far as the media was concerned, sure it was bad, but was it as disqualifying as potentially reading something sent to you that someone else had mislabelled??????
while I don’t like that the playing field is far from fair, expecting the media to out themselves (or at least their management) is going to be a lost cause until we find a way to either improve the coverage in such a fashion where fairness is both a feature and a desired outcome or build our own and consider it a sunk cost.
FelonyGovt
‘@Kay
Where the hell does a man like that- any man, in fact- get off dictating women’s health decisions??
Sure Lurkalot
Sure wish both the church and the state would stay in their lanes, as our founders are said to have intended. Because they won’t, many have lost faith in religion and trust in government. Sowing the seeds for their own irrelevance and extinction.
JanieM
‘@FelonyGovt: “Where the hell does a man like that…get off dictating women’s health decisions??”
I know you know the answer to that question, but I think it bears spelling out. He gets it from the same dark place where he gets the idea that he has the right to knock women around as he sees fit. They are there for him to make use and abuse, they have no other reality for him.
NotMax
‘@FelonyGovt
More like dicktating.
//
Jay
‘@NotMax,
Dicktating, rotating tag nom,
HumboldtBlue
And five-year-old Alberto Cartuccia Cingolani is better at paying piano than I am at… anything!
https://twitter.com/GoodNewsCorres1/status/1528369448532459522
Andrya
‘@Baud: “Women on the pill will be denied communion by this time next year.”
Speaking as the (probably) only practicing Catholic, somewhat pro-life jackal: that couldn’t happen. The Catholic church doesn’t know who is on the pill. Under normal circumstances (Bp. Cordileone is not normal circumstances) receiving communion is left to the individual conscience. I have several gay Catholic friends, and they have no trouble finding priests who will hear their confessions (without demanding they give up their same sex relationships) and will give them communion. Notice that President Biden also attends Mass regularly and is not refused communion.
I live in the Diocese of Oakland, which was previously afflicted by Bp. Cordileone. I breathed a sigh of relief when he was transferred to San Francisco. I shouldn’t have- moving a problem does not solve the problem.
And, to not create a firestorm in the comments, I should explain what I mean by “somewhat pro-life”. I’m not advocating banning abortion by law. (In the age of medication abortions, that would not work anyway.) I do think that unborn life has value, and that it should be public policy to drive down the abortion rate by total access to contraception, a social expectation that a person not willing to have a child should contracept, and ample social/financial support. That’s what they do in most of western Europe, where the abortion rate is much lower than the US.
lowtechcyclist
“The historic, nearly 400-page report details how a small, insular and influential group of leaders “singularly focused on avoiding liability for the SBC to the exclusion of other considerations” to prevent abuse.”
Wow, that’s absolutely impressive in its antitheticality* to everything Jesus was saying in the Gospels.
You could almost do a Sunday-school class competition from it: OK kids, see how many verses you can find in five minutes where Jesus rebukes this sort of behavior!
*I don’t know if that’s a word, but if it isn’t, it should be.
RaflW
“”Nick Donnelly @ProtecttheFaith
12 out of 260 US bishops have publicly supported Archbishop Cordileone’s Canon 915 decree banning Nancy Pelosi from receiving Holy Communion
No US Cardinal has expressed support
Now we know what to think of the other 248 US – (bishops)””
Indeed we do, Nick. I appreciate how your tattle-tale works to let us know that Cordie is way out of step with the Cardinals, and probably a majority of bishops!
RaflW
‘@TxTiger said “I have long wondered why Gov. Greg Abbott in Texas, a Catholic, is not publicly berated by the Bishop of Austin for his position on the death penalty.”
Being pro-death penalty has never, to my eyes, been seen by the US Catholic hierarchy as a problem. Sure, they may issue occasional statements that the Catholic church ‘opposes’ the organized execution of people in prison. But they are rarely seen to DO much beyond hit ‘print’ and affix a stamp to an envelope.
I think this Pope is sincere in his view against it. But he’s barely tolerated by a chunk of US Catholic leaders.
Scout211
‘@lowtechcyclist
@Kay
The report from the Southern Baptist Church, just released today, is getting some wide coverage. NYT, WaPo, and even sincere,igious publications
This from Christianity Today:
Headline: This is the Southern Baptist Apocolypse
“ They were right. I was wrong to call sexual abuse in the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) a crisis. Crisis is too small a word. It is an apocalypse.
Someone asked me a few weeks ago what I expected from the third-party investigation into the handling of sexual abuse by the Southern Baptist Convention’s Executive Committee. I said I didn’t expect to be surprised at all. How could I be? I lived through years with that entity. I was the one who called for such an investigation in the first place.
And yet, as I read the report, I found that I could not swipe the screen to the next page because my hands were shaking with rage. That’s because, as dark a view as I had of the SBC Executive Committee, the investigation uncovers a reality far more evil and systemic than I imagined it could be.
The conclusions of the report are so massive as to almost defy summation. It corroborates and details charges of deception, stonewalling, and intimidation of victims and those calling for reform. It includes written conversations among top Executive Committee staff and their lawyers that display the sort of inhumanity one could hardly have scripted for villains in a television crime drama. It documents callous cover-ups by some SBC leaders and credible allegations of sexually predatory behavior by some leaders themselves, including former SBC president Johnny Hunt (who was one of the only figures in SBC life who seemed to be respected across all of the typical divides).
And then there is the documented mistreatment by the Executive Committee of a sexual abuse survivor, whose own story of her abuse was altered to make it seem that her abuse was a consensual “affair”—resulting, as the report corroborates, in years of living hell for her.“
Scout211
‘@Scout211
Typo:
sincere,igious = some religious
Andrya
‘@Scout211
Although I am not in any way, shape or form minimizing or justifying the way the Catholic Church handled the Catholic sex abuse scandal- it was horrific- I think it is a mistake to assume “these other bad guys did this, my guys never would”.
At this point there have been child sex abuse scandals in:
– the Catholic Church
– the American Boy Scouts
– the Soouthern Baptists
– the Amish
– some Orthodox Jewish communities
In addition, during the Afghan war, US soldiers were told to ignore the pervasive sexual abuse of boys by Afghan warlords allied with the US.
I draw three conclusions:
1. People in a position of power will inevitably use that power to exhort sex from the less powerful.
2, Communities where this is happening will be motivated to ignore what is happening.
3. Items (1) and (2) above must be opposed to the absolute maximum.
mrmoshpotato
Anti-abortion activists say it MAY be ok for men to use condoms- they’re waiting for a ruling from the clerics council.
How about these women-hating assholes go fuck themselves? They (the women particularly) can’t have babies they don’t want from that. And the men can go fuck themselves as well – just to be clear.
Kayla Rudbek
Yeah, this sort of attitude is why Mr. Rudbek and I haven’t been to Mass since before the pandemic. And part of why I am really reluctant to attend any alumni events, as I would prefer not to have an assault on my record.
And I’m surviving the new job so far, although I am somewhat behind at the moment due to luck of the draw for my workload. I broke down and had Mr. Rudbek buy me a VersaDesk desk riser from Target, as otherwise I will be sitting down for far too long every day. It took us less than two hours to get it assembled and get my dual monitors, keyboard, and mouse onto it. Now to get all of my tools and toys back into order on the desk…
dnfree
‘@baud
@andrya
When I was in college in the early 1960s, I had Catholic friends who said they would rather have an abortion than use birth control. If they used birth control they would have to confess it every week, but an abortion if it happened would only have to be confessed once.
Suzanne
I’m sorry, there’s just no way for me to take the Catholic Church seriously at this point. (I’m not talking about anyone’s beliefs. I’m talking about the institution.) It’s so transparently awful.
Jinchi
‘@Andrya
Not if you include the everyday members as part of the community.
The leadership, absolutely wants to resolve these issues behind closed doors: they’re typically obsessed about reputation as much as anything.
But the lay members of these communities get enraged when they find out the leadership had covered up child abuse. Friends of mine who still attend mass weekly have told me they’d never leave a young child alone with the local parish priest, not because they suspect him of anything, just because they lost trust in the institution.
jeffreyw
..
HumboldtBlue
‘@Suzanne:
It always has been but as you point out, it’s become a parody of itself, the leadership for sure, maybe not so much the laity.
On the other hand, there is Pete Kadens of Chicago, who seems like a pretty decent dude.
“Pete Kadens, a Chicago millionaire who retired at 40, created a charity called Hope Chicago that will pay for in-state college tuition, room and board, and books for 30,000 Chicago high school students.”
https://twitter.com/60Minutes/status/1528530659463012352
Andrya
‘@Jinchi- I would agree that ordinary community members do better, on the average, than community leaders, but they do not do that well. There is a lot of documentary evidence of Catholic parishoners, Amish community members, US soldiers in Afghanistan, backing the sexual abusers and being totally in denial. (In the Catholic context, the group that spoke out insistently was not parishoners but nuns, many of whom had experience of fighting sex trafficing.)
@dnfree: That is appalling. However, the 1960s are more than half a century ago, and the overwhelming majority of American Catholics don’t think twice about contraception- and would never consider confessing it. (I never considered confessing contraception.)
Dan B
‘@Scout211
As a gay man who was in Gay Liberation from 1969 (year of Stonewall) and years later working with progressive Christians it does not surprise me that the SBC was brutal in its abuse and the coverups. I encountered many people, especially young gay men, who had been terrorized by the church. They had all the symptoms of PTSD. I remember one very handsome, intelligent ,young guy who should have been enjoying a great life. He was trying to come out and relying for guidance on some pro-gay religious leaders. We were at a seminar on scriptural teachings about homosexuality. He was shaking like a leaf. This athletic handsome, bright guy was overwhelmed with fear. I wanted someone to hug him until his fear abated but it was apparent this would have precipitated a breakdown.
Rigidly dogmatic religious leaders and the institutions they inhabit (infest?) have left a path of destruction in far too many places. Far too many have suffered.
tom
Re: denying communion to Nancy Pelosi. A friend pointed out that Jesus shared bread and cup with Judas Iscariot, even though Jesus knew Judas would betray him.
Who is this bishop to deny communion to anyone?
Suzanne
‘@ HumboldtBlue
It’s so, so bad. And people still give them money! They concealed the rape of C H I L D R E N and plenty of people still said WELL OKAY THEN and continue to give them money to spend on dumb pointy hats and expensive cars for priests.
Even if you believe in God, you don’t have to participate in this scam.
Jackie
Is there a way to refresh pages and not lose the place I refreshed from? I’ve tried highlighting the time stamp, but that’s not working…
oatler
tosting
Another Scott
My view is that churches are human institutions and there are good ones and bad ones. The opulence of the Vatican is astounding. But so is the stuff in the Hofburg in Vienna – https://www.sisimuseum-hofburg.at/en/about-the-location/silver-collection/rooms/milan-centrepiece
I’m reminded of the financial implosion of the Crystal Cathedral – https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2012-nov-02-la-me-1102-schuller-bankrupt-20121102-story.html
““As the money flowed in, Dr. and Mrs. Schuller doled out to themselves, their children and their spouses lavish compensation and perquisites that were either completely gratuitous or wholly disproportionate to the services that they were purportedly providing to the debtor,” ministry attorneys said in a court filing.
When church income began to decline in the early 2000s, the family “failed to change their ways” and continued to raid the “charitable purse,” a filing said.
From 1993 to 2010, four family members received compensation totaling more than $12.7 million. When the ministry filed for bankruptcy in 2010 with more than $50 million in debt, 20 relatives were being paid a total of more than $1.9 million a year, filings indicate.”
Smart churches stay out of politics. Too many ones run by white men seem to be of the opinion that they should be telling people outside their faith what to do.
I’m sure Pelosi is torn. My MIL was Catholic and was forbidden communion for remarrying (to someone that the priest thought had some sort of religious defect) after her first husband was killed in WWII (he was on a bomber that crashed). I don’t know the details, but she was crushed and never completely got over it. My J and her twin got yelled at by their new priest when they moved to a new state as youngsters and (because of some timing mixup) had first communion before they had their first confession – told it was practically a mortal sin and that they were probably going to Hell but maybe they’d be Ok if they said enough Hail Marys or something. A great message for a couple of young children. :-/
I understand the appeal of faith and recognize that it is a good force in many people’s lives. But there’s an awful lot about organized religion that is toxic in modern societies that need to address a wide variety of important problems…
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
JanieM
‘@Another Scott: “Too many ones run by white men seem to be of the opinion that they should be telling people outside their faith what to do.”
Personally, I don’t think they should be telling people *inside* their faith what to do either. If I were a deity, the worst sin in the calendar would be purporting to speak for me.
I had one Catholic parent and one Baptist parent. Raised Catholic, 12 years of Catholic schools, swallowed it whole until .. I didn’t, not long after I left home for college. Probably never really got over it, but lord I’ve tried.
Kent
It’s not a question of whether there are “good Christians” or “bad Christians. or “good churches” or “bad Churches. That is beside the point. The more relevant question is whether Christianity. on balance. is a force for good or ill in this country and the world. Or, for that matter, religion in general.
Just like one can find good Republicans and bad Republicans. That is also beside the point. The more relevant question is whether or not the Republican party is a force for good or ill in this country.
I come from a very religious family. My father is a retired Mennonite minister and my wife went through K-12 in Catholic schools in Chile. So we know what religion is about. 3/4 of my extended family are more or less Mennonite or evangelical MAGA faithful. And the other 1/4 are good hearted liberal Christians who spend way too much time trying to compromise and find “common ground” with the fundamentalist side of the family and faith.
This country was founded on two original sins. Slavery and the genocide of our native peoples. And Christianity was at the very forefront of both. Creating the philosophical and intellectual justification for slavery as well as genocide.
And it just continues and continues with racism, sexism, abuse, denial of science, and rationalization for treason, coups, and authoritarian rule. Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, and all the major faiths in their dominant fundamentalist forms are frankly no better.
prostratedragon
‘@Another Scott, @JanieM, didn’t that nice young Galilean fellow warn about putting rules over human needs?
CaseyL
It seems to me that the number of people who’ve gone from being assholes to benevolent beings because of organized religion is way, way less than the number of assholes who’ve found in organized religion justification for being assholes.
IOW, if you’re already a good person, the best that organized religion can do is give you more opportunities to focus and act on your goodness. But if you’re already a douchnozzle, organized religion will allow you believe your cruelty, bigotry, and general lousiness is blessed by god.
Jay S in WA
Meanwhile in Texas some stealing commandment breaking is going on:
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/texas-news/rural-west-texas-official-arrested-charged-with-stealing-cattle/2974479/#:~:text=Loving%20County%20Judge%20Skeet%20Jones,since%20been%20released%20on%20bond.
Jay S in WA
And here at the BJ withdrawal clinic John is calling out @365datacenters on twitter. https://twitter.com/Johngcole/status/1528464871691628544
StringOnAStick
I attended a bunch of different churches with friends as a kid, it left me with the conclusion that all were talking about the same general idea but getting lost in human power games. I blew it all off and don’t regret that
My oldest sister is a RW Southern Baptist and all I ever learned about religion from her is who it allows her to hate with righteous fury, which is everyone not in her religion apparently. Never heard a word about Jesus or the love of God ever leave her mouth, just religion -based hate and anger. Not exactly appealing.
Super Dave
I’m always somewhat bemused to discover that so many people still ascribe any moral authority to what is arguably the largest criminal organization on the planet.